Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Azores Passport Records.

[Cheri Mello]

Yes, cast as wide of a net as possible. You need what's in the book
though...not the abstract on the little half size sheet of paper (the
certificate) that says he married her on this date by me the priest. The
stuff in the church book may have it. I know St. John's had the freguesia
listed on the marriages in the very early 1900s. I don't know if they had
it in the 1890s though. So let them know you are after the bride and
groom's home village.  Keeping fingers crossed!
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 5:04 PM Justin Brown  wrote:

> I'm really hopeful that it will have the freguesia on the church record.
> For back up I have her brother John Souza(João Martin(s) Desouza) who I am
> a direct descendant of to search for at MT. Carmel. Then if all else fails
> baptisms of his children. An also baptisms of Maria's children.
>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Azores Passport Records.

[Justin Brown]

I'm really hopeful that it will have the freguesia on the church record. For 
back up I have her brother John Souza(João Martin(s) Desouza) who I am a direct 
descendant of to search for at MT. Carmel. Then if all else fails baptisms of 
his children. An also baptisms of Maria's children.

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Azores Passport Records.

[Justin Brown]

Yes. They are the same people. Just today after your suggestion I called Mt. 
Carmel and they are currently looking into marriage record. I'm going to stop 
by tomorrow to make a donation. Maybe I can see if they will check a baptism. 
Like you said they are busy so they said it could take a few days.

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Azores Passport Records.

[Cheri Mello]

Justin B,

If your Julio Jacinto Borges is going by Julio J. Borges and he had a lot
of kids that died as babies or infants in New Bedford, the mom is being
listed as Maria Amelia (de/da Souza). I'm using Family Search .org and
using the Massachusetts Deaths. Julio and Maria are burying their children
in St. John's Cemetery. If it's the right couple, then maybe one of the
baptisms will provide the freguesia of Julio and Maria.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 2:13 PM Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Justin B,
>
> U.S. Passport information is item #5 here. https://goo.gl/xAAdkE
>
> As far as I know, it's only on film. FamilySearch may have digitized it
> though. They are doing a lot of digitization. You'd have to search their
> library catalog for it: https://goo.gl/FEJd6a You'll have to wade through
> those. You may still wind up with the same problem though - the earlier
> applications didn't ask for as much information as the latter applications
> did. And if it is digitized, some record sets require you to view from your
> local Family History Center (FHC) only. There's one in North Dartmouth,
> although I don't know how many computers they have. It's on Cross Rd.
> You'll have to call to verify their hours. They don't always keep those
> hours posted on the Internet up to date: https://goo.gl/GR5K7D
>
> I still say go bug your relatives. One person may say something and it may
> trigger a memory in the other person!
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 1:17 PM Justin Brown 
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Margaret. Do you know where I would be able to find the US
>> passport? Is it online? Thank you.
>>
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>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Azores Passport Records.

[Cheri Mello]

Justin B,

U.S. Passport information is item #5 here. https://goo.gl/xAAdkE

As far as I know, it's only on film. FamilySearch may have digitized it
though. They are doing a lot of digitization. You'd have to search their
library catalog for it: https://goo.gl/FEJd6a You'll have to wade through
those. You may still wind up with the same problem though - the earlier
applications didn't ask for as much information as the latter applications
did. And if it is digitized, some record sets require you to view from your
local Family History Center (FHC) only. There's one in North Dartmouth,
although I don't know how many computers they have. It's on Cross Rd.
You'll have to call to verify their hours. They don't always keep those
hours posted on the Internet up to date: https://goo.gl/GR5K7D

I still say go bug your relatives. One person may say something and it may
trigger a memory in the other person!

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 1:17 PM Justin Brown  wrote:

> Thank you Margaret. Do you know where I would be able to find the US
> passport? Is it online? Thank you.
>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Azores Passport Records.

[Justin Brown]

Thank you Margaret. Do you know where I would be able to find the US passport? 
Is it online? Thank you.

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Azores Passport Records.

[Margaret Vicente]

If she was naturalized you will not find it in 1905 passports list.   You’ll 
find it US side when she applied for the US passport.  There was a time period 
Portugal didn’t allow for dual citizenship thus any one person taking on 
another citizenship would have their Portuguese status revoked.

Margaret


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Justin Brown
Sent: November 20, 2018 2:49 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Azores Passport Records.

I have basically everything that you listed. But they all just say St. Michael. 
Maria Julia is my grandfather's great aunt. We all speak Portuguese but he 
can't remember what part of the island they are from. I'm from New Bedford and 
no the church very well. I'm going to give that a go. Thank you again.

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Azores Passport Records.

[Justin Brown]

I have basically everything that you listed. But they all just say St. Michael. 
Maria Julia is my grandfather's great aunt. We all speak Portuguese but he 
can't remember what part of the island they are from. I'm from New Bedford and 
no the church very well. I'm going to give that a go. Thank you again.

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Azores Passport Records.

[Justin Brown]

On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 12:38:00 PM UTC-5, Justin Brown wrote:
> Was it mandatory for all people leaving the islands to "get a passport" or be 
> recorded. Even if it wasn't their first time departing the island. I ask 
> because I have the immigration records for here in the US, but can't seem to 
> find the corresponding record in the Azores passport records, as I have in 
> the past.
> The person in question is Maria Julia Borges (Maiden name Desouza or Souza 
> though not in the record) age 32-34 who is traveling with son Julio
> Age 3-5. On the US Immigration record it says they left from São Miguel, June 
> 18th 1905 and arrived in the port of New Bedford, July 1st, 1905.

Thank you for responding. I made another post because I forgot I posted this 
last night, I apologize. I see, so I will have to look further back in the 
records. My problem is that I'm trying to figure out what freguesia she was 
from. But now that I know that the dates don't have to match up I will search 
more. Thank you again it is much appreciated.

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question

['DONNA WOOD' via Azores Genealogy]

Liz,
Just saw your email.   Are we related?   Thanks.  
Donna

On March 5, 2018, at 12:32 AM, Elizabeth Migliori  wrote:

Never mind I got it figured  

thx


On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 9:47 AM, Elizabeth Migliori  wrote:

Hello

I just checked my cousin's family finder and noticed that another cousin is 
listed on there 2ce.

once for half sibling/ grandparent/aunt or uncle etc 1613 centograms

second time for 2nd to 4th cousin 106 centograms.

Is this just a mistake or what's up with this???


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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question

[Elizabeth Migliori]

Never mind I got it figured
thx

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 9:47 AM, Elizabeth Migliori 
wrote:

> Hello
>
> I just checked my cousin's family finder and noticed that another cousin
> is listed on there 2ce.
> once for half sibling/ grandparent/aunt or uncle etc 1613 centograms
> second time for 2nd to 4th cousin 106 centograms.
>
> Is this just a mistake or what's up with this???
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[linda]

Hi Rick,

I believe it says:

"... e de Helena Roza, d'ocupacao domestica viuva, naturais..."  Viuva is 
split between two lines.  

If that's correct, then Antonio's paternity might be in question.

hope that helps,

Linda



On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 7:24:32 AM UTC-7, Richard Francis Pimentel wrote:
>
> *JR and I are both scratching our heads on this record We need some other 
> native speakers to take a look at this record and the wording and perhaps 
> explain what the writer was trying to say.*
>
>  
>
> *A few facts about it are Antonio da Silva Canario and Helena Rosa married 
> in 1854 and have 3 children at the time of this record (the birth of 
> Emilia) Antonio is 66 years old and Helena is about 42.  Antonio is named 
> as having died in the Hospital in Ribeira Grande in 1876 when Helena 
> remarries.*
>
>  
>
> *http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879_item1/P87.html
>  
> 
>   
> Emilia on the right side*
>
>  
>
> *The part in question is the priest writes “ filha legitima digo fila 
> natural Antonio da Silva campaneo e  de Helena Rosa” then there is a few 
> lines before he writes “nita paterna”  I can make out part of the line I 
> think is says that they are both married and residing in the freguesia but 
> I do not completely understand it all. *
>
>  
>
> *In subsequent records Emilia she is named as father unknown.*
>
>  
>
> *My feeling is that Emilia is the results of an adulterous affair and 
> Antonio denied he was the father Helena denied having an  affair.  The 
> priest could not determine who was telling the truth. *
>
>  
>
> *Rick*
>
> *Richard Francis Pimentel*
>
> *Epping, NH*
>
>  
>
> *Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and 
> Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores*
>
>  
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on word after name

[linda]

oops, correction: "fiandeira"

On Friday, March 11, 2016 at 8:28:48 AM UTC-8, linda wrote:
>
> Huh. A "fiandera" is a spinstress, generally of wool or flax. I don't know 
> enough of the language to guess whether that might have been what was 
> intended.

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on word after name

['Lillian Palko' via Azores Genealogy]

Oops!

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1865-1869/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1865-1869_item1/P257.html

On Friday, March 11, 2016 at 7:20:30 AM UTC-8, Lillian Palko wrote:
>
> This would be right hand page, 3rd line down first word after the name 
> Marianna Consula.  Looks like "fiadeina."  
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thank you...really wish I could read and understand Portuguese better.
>
> Appreciate the help.
>
> Lillian
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on godmother's name and titles of witnesses

[JR]

Re Engracia, sometimes the priest meant to write Engracia, even if it looks 
like Emgracia. This is true of much of what we see, except of course where 
the spellings reflect their time, like Thezoureiro and Rezendes vs 
Resendes, Jose, Joze, etc. If the priest used a certain spelling 
consistently, then it was the spelling of the day, or his particular 
spelling. 

JR

On Monday, April 7, 2014 11:39:40 AM UTC-4, Maria wrote:
>
> Oh my goodness JR- thank you so much for doing this.  Thank you .  After 
> this post, I started paying attention to the priests names and learned that 
> they were just what u said- they were witnesses.  Added another word to my 
> Portuguese vocabulary- thezoureiro.  You also shed light on the spelling of 
> Emgracia- sometimes I thought it said Engracia.  I'll need to go back in 
> the familysearch tree and change it each time I misspelled it.
>
> I am grateful to you for taking the time to do this- 
>
> Maria Elena 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 7, 2014, at 9:40 AM, JR > wrote:
>
> Vitorino, filho de Francisco Joze de Rezendes e sua mulher Emgracia 
> (Engracia) Roza naturais desta parochial de NS da Purificacam lugar de 
> Santo Espirito desta ilha de Santa Maria e moradores no lugar desta 
> parochial, neto pela parte paterno, de Joze de Rezendes Jacome e sua mulher 
> Marianna Carvalha e pela materno, de Antonio Curvelo e sua mulher Izabel de 
> Melo, ja defuntos, todos naturais e fraguesia desta dita Parochial, nasceu 
> em os seis dias de mes de Janeiro anno do mil sete centos e outenta tres 
> annos e foi bautizado nesta igreja parochial  de seis pais por mim Joze 
> Alvares Cabral vice vigario dito ( I meant to say) aos doze dias de dito 
> mes e anno foi padrinho Antonio Joze Ferreira cazado com Dona Anna Ursula 
> fraguesias desta parachial. Witnesses were Padre Cura Francisco Joze Puim e 
> Padre thezoureiro Joaquim Antonio Jacome.
>
> It was indeed common for priests and their assistants to appear as 
> witnesses, and often they appeared as godparents also. Tesoureiro is the 
> treasurer of the church.
>
> JR
>
> On Sunday, April 6, 2014 10:23:13 AM UTC-4, Maria wrote:
>>
>> Page on the right- Vitorino (looks like Vitorino with no "c" ) 
>>
>> Was the godmother Doña Anna Lux (?)  of this church of this parish (?) is 
>> that correct? 
>>
>> The 2 witnesses seem to be priests (if I translated correctly) and one of 
>> them is a  "Jacomo"  and I suspect he might be related to the family.  Was 
>> it unusual to have 2 priests come to a baptism?   And be witnesses?   
>>
>> I think it says witnesses were:  o padre cura desta parochial, Francisco 
>> Jose Pereira, o padre  Th...veiro. (?) Joaquim Antonio Jacomo?   There is a 
>> strange word before his name- and I don't know if it's part of his name or 
>> a title.  It doesn't say which parish the Jacomo person is from (if he IS a 
>> priest) but maybe it doesn't say what I thought it said.   Can someone 
>> please help me with this?  Thank you!   
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-B-1779-1792/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-B-1779-1792_item1/P68.html
>>  
>>
>> Maria Elena 
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on godmother's name and titles of witnesses

[Maria Lima]

Oh my goodness JR- thank you so much for doing this.  Thank you .  After this 
post, I started paying attention to the priests names and learned that they 
were just what u said- they were witnesses.  Added another word to my 
Portuguese vocabulary- thezoureiro.  You also shed light on the spelling of 
Emgracia- sometimes I thought it said Engracia.  I'll need to go back in the 
familysearch tree and change it each time I misspelled it.

I am grateful to you for taking the time to do this- 

Maria Elena 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 7, 2014, at 9:40 AM, JR  wrote:
> 
> Vitorino, filho de Francisco Joze de Rezendes e sua mulher Emgracia 
> (Engracia) Roza naturais desta parochial de NS da Purificacam lugar de Santo 
> Espirito desta ilha de Santa Maria e moradores no lugar desta parochial, neto 
> pela parte paterno, de Joze de Rezendes Jacome e sua mulher Marianna Carvalha 
> e pela materno, de Antonio Curvelo e sua mulher Izabel de Melo, ja defuntos, 
> todos naturais e fraguesia desta dita Parochial, nasceu em os seis dias de 
> mes de Janeiro anno do mil sete centos e outenta tres annos e foi bautizado 
> nesta igreja parochial  de seis pais por mim Joze Alvares Cabral vice vigario 
> dito ( I meant to say) aos doze dias de dito mes e anno foi padrinho Antonio 
> Joze Ferreira cazado com Dona Anna Ursula fraguesias desta parachial. 
> Witnesses were Padre Cura Francisco Joze Puim e Padre thezoureiro Joaquim 
> Antonio Jacome.
> 
> It was indeed common for priests and their assistants to appear as witnesses, 
> and often they appeared as godparents also. Tesoureiro is the treasurer of 
> the church.
> 
> JR
> 
>> On Sunday, April 6, 2014 10:23:13 AM UTC-4, Maria wrote:
>> Page on the right- Vitorino (looks like Vitorino with no "c" ) 
>> 
>> Was the godmother Doña Anna Lux (?)  of this church of this parish (?) is 
>> that correct? 
>> 
>> The 2 witnesses seem to be priests (if I translated correctly) and one of 
>> them is a  "Jacomo"  and I suspect he might be related to the family.  Was 
>> it unusual to have 2 priests come to a baptism?   And be witnesses?   
>> 
>> I think it says witnesses were:  o padre cura desta parochial, Francisco 
>> Jose Pereira, o padre  Th...veiro. (?) Joaquim Antonio Jacomo?   There is a 
>> strange word before his name- and I don't know if it's part of his name or a 
>> title.  It doesn't say which parish the Jacomo person is from (if he IS a 
>> priest) but maybe it doesn't say what I thought it said.   Can someone 
>> please help me with this?  Thank you!   
>> 
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-B-1779-1792/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-B-1779-1792_item1/P68.html
>>  
>> 
>> Maria Elena
> 
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on godmother's name and titles of witnesses

[JR]

Vitorino, filho de Francisco Joze de Rezendes e sua mulher Emgracia 
(Engracia) Roza naturais desta parochial de NS da Purificacam lugar de 
Santo Espirito desta ilha de Santa Maria e moradores no lugar desta 
parochial, neto pela parte paterno, de Joze de Rezendes Jacome e sua mulher 
Marianna Carvalha e pela materno, de Antonio Curvelo e sua mulher Izabel de 
Melo, ja defuntos, todos naturais e fraguesia desta dita Parochial, nasceu 
em os seis dias de mes de Janeiro anno do mil sete centos e outenta tres 
annos e foi bautizado nesta igreja parochial  de seis pais por mim Joze 
Alvares Cabral vice vigario dito ( I meant to say) aos doze dias de dito 
mes e anno foi padrinho Antonio Joze Ferreira cazado com Dona Anna Ursula 
fraguesias desta parachial. Witnesses were Padre Cura Francisco Joze Puim e 
Padre thezoureiro Joaquim Antonio Jacome.

It was indeed common for priests and their assistants to appear as 
witnesses, and often they appeared as godparents also. Tesoureiro is the 
treasurer of the church.

JR

On Sunday, April 6, 2014 10:23:13 AM UTC-4, Maria wrote:
>
> Page on the right- Vitorino (looks like Vitorino with no "c" ) 
>
> Was the godmother Doña Anna Lux (?)  of this church of this parish (?) is 
> that correct? 
>
> The 2 witnesses seem to be priests (if I translated correctly) and one of 
> them is a  "Jacomo"  and I suspect he might be related to the family.  Was 
> it unusual to have 2 priests come to a baptism?   And be witnesses?   
>
> I think it says witnesses were:  o padre cura desta parochial, Francisco 
> Jose Pereira, o padre  Th...veiro. (?) Joaquim Antonio Jacomo?   There is a 
> strange word before his name- and I don't know if it's part of his name or 
> a title.  It doesn't say which parish the Jacomo person is from (if he IS a 
> priest) but maybe it doesn't say what I thought it said.   Can someone 
> please help me with this?  Thank you!   
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-B-1779-1792/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-B-1779-1792_item1/P68.html
>  
>
> Maria Elena 

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question regarding Agua Retorta, Povoacao Casamentos

[JR]

Thanks for the correction. Absolutely, it reads Emilia Rosa de Medeiros on 
the margin  and in the text.

JR

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 11:10:52 PM UTC-5, bsei...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Wow!  I really appreciate this post.  Manuel Bernardo Teixeira is my 
> great-great grandfather.  He is also a g-g-grandfather to Neil Teixeira who 
> I have conversed with before, to Lee's cousin, and to my wife.  The only 
> correction I would suggest is that his second wife is Emilia Rosa instead 
> of Emilia Flora.  I have seen baptisms for several of their children 
> (Francisco in Agua Retorta 1871; Rosa in Agua Retorta in 1872 who is my 
> wife's g-grandmother; Filomena in Agua Retorta in 1875; and Felicidade in 
> 1887 in Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada who is my g-grandmother.  The name Emilia 
> Rosa seems clear in all of them.   I also know they had another son in 1880 
> or 81, Jose, who is Neil's g-grandfather but I'm not sure if that was 
> before or after they moved from Agua Retorta to Sao Jose.  I also know of 
> one daughter from Manuel's first marriage to Anna Jacinta Botelho.  She was 
> Maria born in Agua Retorta in 1861 or 1862 and was the first immigrant from 
> this family (that I know of) when she went to Cambridge, MA around 1889.
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> On Saturday, February 15, 2014 3:58:26 PM UTC-8, Lee wrote:
>
>> I curious about the casamentos records for Agua Retorta before 1835.  
>>  
>> Are there none?  Or are they in another location?
>>  
>> The baptismos back to 1819 are on the CCA for AR; but no casamentos?
>>  
>> I'm trying to find the marriage of Bernardo Teixeira Nogueira and 
>> Victoria; who would have married before 1831.
>>  
>> Lee, WV
>>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question regarding Agua Retorta, Povoacao Casamentos

[bsei2816]

Wow!  I really appreciate this post.  Manuel Bernardo Teixeira is my 
great-great grandfather.  He is also a g-g-grandfather to Neil Teixeira who 
I have conversed with before, to Lee's cousin, and to my wife.  The only 
correction I would suggest is that his second wife is Emilia Rosa instead 
of Emilia Flora.  I have seen baptisms for several of their children 
(Francisco in Agua Retorta 1871; Rosa in Agua Retorta in 1872 who is my 
wife's g-grandmother; Filomena in Agua Retorta in 1875; and Felicidade in 
1887 in Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada who is my g-grandmother.  The name Emilia 
Rosa seems clear in all of them.   I also know they had another son in 1880 
or 81, Jose, who is Neil's g-grandfather but I'm not sure if that was 
before or after they moved from Agua Retorta to Sao Jose.  I also know of 
one daughter from Manuel's first marriage to Anna Jacinta Botelho.  She was 
Maria born in Agua Retorta in 1861 or 1862 and was the first immigrant from 
this family (that I know of) when she went to Cambridge, MA around 1889.

Thank you very much!

Bill Seidler

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 3:58:26 PM UTC-8, Lee wrote:

> I curious about the casamentos records for Agua Retorta before 1835.  
>  
> Are there none?  Or are they in another location?
>  
> The baptismos back to 1819 are on the CCA for AR; but no casamentos?
>  
> I'm trying to find the marriage of Bernardo Teixeira Nogueira and 
> Victoria; who would have married before 1831.
>  
> Lee, WV
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question regarding Agua Retorta, Povoacao Casamentos

[JR]

Nordestinho is part of Nordeste and it is already on line.

JR

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 10:01:32 PM UTC-5, Lee wrote:
>
> Yes, it was Neil.  I remembered the last name but couldn't  remember his 
> first name.
>
> I need to make sure I'm looking in the correct places...Sao Pedro, 
> Nordestinho would be under Povaocao, correct?
>
> I get confused with all different areas, etc.  I'm working on several 
> different lines at the same time...I have two cousins who of Azorean 
> descent...two areas were anxiously waiting for are, of course, Graciosa and 
> Rabi de Piexe...the di Mendonca and  de Mello families.
>
> Thank you for all your help, greatly appreciated.
>
> Lee
>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question regarding Agua Retorta, Povoacao Casamentos

[rcapodc]

Lee, if you haven't already, go to the AzoresGenWeb site (just google it) 
and click on "maps", then Sao Miguel. Kathy Cardoza has done a wonderful job 
of naming the village, the concelho, church name and what is available in 
either microfilm or already online. That is the easiest way to keep track of 
the villages and church names. Too many of the same names and if you are 
working on several lines at the same time, too easy to get confused!


Rosemarie


-Original Message- 
From: Lee

Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:01 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question regarding Agua Retorta, Povoacao 
Casamentos


Yes, it was Neil.  I remembered the last name but couldn't  remember his 
first name.


I need to make sure I'm looking in the correct places...Sao Pedro, 
Nordestinho would be under Povaocao, correct?


I get confused with all different areas, etc.  I'm working on several 
different lines at the same time...I have two cousins who of Azorean 
descent...two areas were anxiously waiting for are, of course, Graciosa and 
Rabi de Piexe...the di Mendonca and  de Mello families.


Thank you for all your help, greatly appreciated.

Lee

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question regarding Agua Retorta, Povoacao Casamentos

[Lee]

Yes, it was Neil.  I remembered the last name but couldn't  remember his first 
name.

I need to make sure I'm looking in the correct places...Sao Pedro, Nordestinho 
would be under Povaocao, correct?

I get confused with all different areas, etc.  I'm working on several different 
lines at the same time...I have two cousins who of Azorean descent...two areas 
were anxiously waiting for are, of course, Graciosa and Rabi de Piexe...the di 
Mendonca and  de Mello families.

Thank you for all your help, greatly appreciated.

Lee

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question regarding Agua Retorta, Povoacao Casamentos

[JR]

Was that Neil Teixeira? If so I worked with him on the Nordeste records, 
where many of the early Teixeira's resided. 

JR

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:02:19 PM UTC-5, Lee wrote:
>
> JR, again thank you!  
>
> Now that I have dates i search for them much easier.
>
> Also, last year, I believe, another lister (can't remember his name at the 
> moment) supplied information on the direct line of Nogueira's back to the 
> 1600's, but very few dates for them.  I am in the process of verifying the 
> information that he gave me.  If you're interested in the information he 
> sent, please let me know and I'll forward it onto you.
>
> Lee
>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question regarding Agua Retorta, Povoacao Casamentos

[Lee]

JR, again thank you!  

Now that I have dates i search for them much easier.

Also, last year, I believe, another lister (can't remember his name at the 
moment) supplied information on the direct line of Nogueira's back to the 
1600's, but very few dates for them.  I am in the process of verifying the 
information that he gave me.  If you're interested in the information he sent, 
please let me know and I'll forward it onto you.

Lee

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question regarding Agua Retorta, Povoacao Casamentos

[JR]

They are part of Faial da Terra and you will often see references to Nossa 
Senhora, da Penha do Franca church of Agua Retorta in the preamble of the 
records. this particular person is someone that came up either in my 
exchange with another researcher, or it is the archives of Azores List. I 
have this. I wanted to trace the Nogueira line, but it is very difficult.

JR


 

*Ancestors of Manuel Bernardo Teixeira*

 

 

*Generation No. 1*

 

*1.*  *Manuel Bernardo Teixeira,* born Abt. 1831 in Agua Retorta, NSda 
Penha de Franca.  He was the son of *2. 
Bernardo Teixeira Nogueira* and *3. **Vitoria** Maria*.  He married *(1) 
Anna Jacinta Botelho* 25 Sep 1853 in Agua Retorta, NS da Penha de Franca.  
She was born in Agua Retorta, NS da Penha de Franca, and died Bef. 1871.  
She was the daughter of Victorino Furtado and Ana Botelho.  He married *(2) 
Emilia Flora de Medeiros* 18 Jan 1871 in Agua Retorta, NS da Penha de 
Franca.  She was born 29 Apr 1846 in Agua Retorta, NS da Penha de Franca.  
She was the daughter of Manuel Furtado de Medeiros and Feliciana de 
Medeiros.

 

Notes for Manuel Bernardo Teixeira:

Married as Manoel Francisco Teixeira

 

*Generation No. 2*

 

*2.*  *Bernardo Teixeira Nogueira,* born in Agua Retorta, NS da 
Penha de Franca.  He was the son of *4. Jose Teixeira Nogueira* and *5. 
Benedita de Jesus Pimentel*.  He married *3. Vitoria Maria* 25 Feb 1829 in 
Faial da Terra.

*3.*  *Vitoria Maria,* born in Agua Retorta, NS da Penha de 
Franca.  She was the daughter of *6. Tomas Raposo or Cabral* and *7. Maria 
Raposo*.

 

Marriage Notes for Bernardo Teixeira Nogueira and Vitoria:

On page 165 of FDT marriage records is a Bernardo Teixeira Nogueira, filho 
de Jose Teixeira Nogueira e Benedicta de Pimentel casou FDT Feb 25, 1829, 
com Victoria Maria, filha de Thomas Cabral e Maria Rapposa nats de FDT



Child of Bernardo Teixeira Nogueira and Vitoria is:

1 i.Manuel Bernardo Teixeira, born Abt. 1831 in 
Agua Retorta, NS da Penha de Franca; married (1) Anna Jacinta Botelho 25 
Sep 1853 in Agua Retorta, NS da Penha de Franca; married (2) Emilia Flora 
de Medeiros 18 Jan 1871 in Agua Retorta, NS da Penha de Franca.

 

 

*Generation No. 3*

 

*4.*  *Jose Teixeira Nogueira,* born Abt. 1766 in Nordestinho- Sao 
Pedro.  He was the son of Antonio Teixeira Pimentel and Quiteria Borges.  
He married *5. Benedita de Jesus Pimentel* 07 Jun 1790 in Nordestinho, Sao 
Pedro.

*5.*  *Benedita de Jesus Pimentel,* born in Faial da Terra.  She 
was the daughter of Domingos de Pimentel and Beatriz da Costa.

 

Marriage Notes for Jose Teixeira Nogueira and Benedita Pimentel:

Faial da Terra, Casamentos 1756-1800 > 0172, page 170R Jun 7-1790

 

Joze Teixeira, filho de Antonio Teixeira, defunto e Quiteria Borges, nat de 
Nordestinho, SP, com Benedita de Pimentel, filha de Domingos de Pimentel e 
Beatriz da Costa, nats de FDT

witness- Vigro- Domingos Duarte Morais, Cura- Antonio Francisco Rebelo, 
Jurdao Pacheco (casdo com Maria Botelho), Manoel Carreyro Carrvalho (casado 
com Maria dos Santos) and many others.



Child of Jose Teixeira Nogueira and Benedita Pimentel is:

2 i.Bernardo Teixeira Nogueira, born in Agua 
Retorta, NS da Penha de Franca; married Vitoria Maria 25 Feb 1829 in Faial 
da Terra.

 

 

*6.*  *Tomas Raposo or Cabral,* born in Agua Retorta.  He married *7. 
Maria Raposo* 12 Jan 1805 in Faial da Terra.

*7.*  *Maria Raposo,* born in Agua Retorta.  She was the daughter 
of Manuel Pereira and Maria Raposo.

 

Marriage Notes for Tomas Cabral and Maria Raposo:

Faial da Terra, Casamentos 1800-1833 > 0026, page 25, Jan 12-1805

 

Thomas Rapozo viuvo de Maria Pereira buried in Agua Retorta bef Jan 12, 1805com 
Maria Rapoza (Maria de Medeiros on header), filha de Manuel Pereira and 
Maria Rapoza



Child of Tomas Cabral and Maria Raposo is:

3 i.Vitoria Maria, born in Agua Retorta, NS da 
Penha de Franca; married Bernardo Teixeira Nogueira 25 Feb 1829 in Faial da 
Terra.

 
  

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 6:58:26 PM UTC-5, Lee wrote:
>
> I curious about the casamentos records for Agua Retorta before 1835.  
>  
> Are there none?  Or are they in another location?
>  
> The baptismos back to 1819 are on the CCA for AR; but no casamentos?
>  
> I'm trying to find the marriage of Bernardo Teixeira Nogueira and 
> Victoria; who would have married before 1831.
>  
> Lee, WV
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on occupation of padrinho

[Maria Lima]

Thank you- you are confirming my thoughts.  

Maria Elena 

> On Jan 16, 2014, at 1:23 PM, Ricardo Chaves  wrote:
> 
> Maria, 
> 
> in general, parents would choose for their children Godparents, someone with 
> a higher status, sometimes of their own family, other not. You will notice 
> that was common the more you see baptism records. In the most cases, you will 
> see only the Godparents signatures together with the vicars. Having said 
> that, and together with your information, all points that he was educated. 
> And yes, his handwriting is/was "gorgeous" I must say, comparing to many I 
> have had nightmares to decipher!! 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Maria Lima  wrote:
>> Thankyou Ricardo.  I did wonder if that was his signature at the bottom with 
>> the vicar because it was so well written.  So I'm thinking he was educated 
>> to the point where he could read and write well.  Thanks.  
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thursday, January 16, 2014, Ricardo Chaves wrote:
>>> Hello, 
>>> 
>>> I also read ESCREVENTE, and for what I've read, he may have been some kind 
>>> of  typewriter (datilografo), in this case, as you mentioned, a Scribe, I 
>>> don't think there were typewriter machines in 1879, in Azores! He could 
>>> sign his name, besides the vicar, he is the only signature in the bottom of 
>>> the record.
>>> 
>>> Good Luck
>>> 
>>> 
 On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 4:06 AM, Maria Lima  
 wrote:
 For baptismal record of Maria on the right hand page (number 146)
 
 On the eight line from the bottom: I'm having a hard time deciphering the 
 occupation of the godfather- it says
 
 Foi padrinho Domingos Perreira Machado, single "escreventes" (?) scribe(?)
 Was he a writer?  I could not figure the rest of the sentence.
 
 I'm very curious about this godfather named Domingo's.  if this Domingo's 
 was able to read and write;   If he was educated, it could be a key in the 
 education received by my husbands grandfather, Domingo's Moniz Machado.  I 
 believe someone must have recognized that he had potential and as the 
 story goes, he was raised by the Jesuits in Boston.   Domingo's Moniz is 
 the older brother of Maria, the one on the baptismal record.
 
 Any help would be wonderful and I appreciate all the help I've already 
 received.
 
 http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-B-1875-1879/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-B-1875-1879_item1/P132.html
 
 Maria Elena
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Ricardo Chaves
>>> 
>>> -- 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ricardo Chaves
> 
> -- 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on occupation of padrinho

[Ricardo Chaves]

Maria,

in general, parents would choose for their children Godparents, someone
with a higher status, sometimes of their own family, other not. You will
notice that was common the more you see baptism records. In the most cases,
you will see only the Godparents signatures together with the vicars.
Having said that, and together with your information, all points that he
was educated. And yes, his handwriting is/was "gorgeous" I must say,
comparing to many I have had nightmares to decipher!!

Cheers


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Maria Lima  wrote:

> Thankyou Ricardo.  I did wonder if that was his signature at the bottom
> with the vicar because it was so well written.  So I'm thinking he was
> educated to the point where he could read and write well.  Thanks.
>
>
> On Thursday, January 16, 2014, Ricardo Chaves wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I also read ESCREVENTE, and for what I've read, he may have been some
>> kind of  typewriter (datilografo), in this case, as you mentioned, a
>> Scribe, I don't think there were typewriter machines in 1879, in Azores! He
>> could sign his name, besides the vicar, he is the only signature in the
>> bottom of the record.
>>
>> Good Luck
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 4:06 AM, Maria Lima wrote:
>>
>>> For baptismal record of Maria on the right hand page (number 146)
>>>
>>> On the eight line from the bottom: I'm having a hard time deciphering
>>> the occupation of the godfather- it says
>>>
>>> Foi padrinho Domingos Perreira Machado, single "escreventes" (?)
>>> scribe(?)
>>> Was he a writer?  I could not figure the rest of the sentence.
>>>
>>> I'm very curious about this godfather named Domingo's.  if this
>>> Domingo's was able to read and write;   If he was educated, it could be a
>>> key in the education received by my husbands grandfather, Domingo's Moniz
>>> Machado.  I believe someone must have recognized that he had potential and
>>> as the story goes, he was raised by the Jesuits in Boston.   Domingo's
>>> Moniz is the older brother of Maria, the one on the baptismal record.
>>>
>>> Any help would be wonderful and I appreciate all the help I've already
>>> received.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-B-1875-1879/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-B-1875-1879_item1/P132.html
>>>
>>> Maria Elena
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ricardo Chaves
>>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on occupation of padrinho

[Maria Lima]

Thankyou Ricardo.  I did wonder if that was his signature at the bottom
with the vicar because it was so well written.  So I'm thinking he was
educated to the point where he could read and write well.  Thanks.

On Thursday, January 16, 2014, Ricardo Chaves wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I also read ESCREVENTE, and for what I've read, he may have been some kind
> of  typewriter (datilografo), in this case, as you mentioned, a Scribe, I
> don't think there were typewriter machines in 1879, in Azores! He could
> sign his name, besides the vicar, he is the only signature in the bottom of
> the record.
>
> Good Luck
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 4:06 AM, Maria Lima 
>  'maria.lima...@gmail.com');>
> > wrote:
>
>> For baptismal record of Maria on the right hand page (number 146)
>>
>> On the eight line from the bottom: I'm having a hard time deciphering the
>> occupation of the godfather- it says
>>
>> Foi padrinho Domingos Perreira Machado, single "escreventes" (?) scribe(?)
>> Was he a writer?  I could not figure the rest of the sentence.
>>
>> I'm very curious about this godfather named Domingo's.  if this Domingo's
>> was able to read and write;   If he was educated, it could be a key in the
>> education received by my husbands grandfather, Domingo's Moniz Machado.  I
>> believe someone must have recognized that he had potential and as the story
>> goes, he was raised by the Jesuits in Boston.   Domingo's Moniz is the
>> older brother of Maria, the one on the baptismal record.
>>
>> Any help would be wonderful and I appreciate all the help I've already
>> received.
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-B-1875-1879/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-B-1875-1879_item1/P132.html
>>
>> Maria Elena
>>
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>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question- How are last names passed down in Azorean Culture?

[Karen Huffman]

Thank you so much for all that information Tomas! I now believe my family
may not be crazy after all but have legitimate reasons for the names they
use/gave. A name is just a name unless you are trying to trace them!!

Karen Medeiros-Huffman


On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 2:15 AM, Tomas Leal  wrote:

> The naming practice is just as confusing to me when I am in the Azores
> among the living as it is in searching documents. I have neighbors I know
> are related to each other with different family names. Some children use
> the father's family name, others use the mother's.
>
> One factor, I've learned, is the repetition of the same handful of given
> names. Most women have Maria as their first given name, which means most
> women have the same name.  How do you distinguish one from the other? Some
> use a combination of first and second names as in "Maria Santo Christo" or
> "Maria da Paz." Some go entirely by the second name. Many women named
> "Maria Conceição" go only by Conceição. One family here of four sisters is
> an example. Each one is Maria, though only the first one uses that name
> (Maria da Gloria), the next two (twins) use only their second names, and
> the fourth one goes back and forth between Maria Margarida and just
> Margarida. In her case two different people talking about her to me might
> use different names to refer to her. As for a family name, that can depend
> upon whose land the family now lives on. All four of these sisters use
> their family name, not their husbands' names, primarily because their
> family has been a prominent one for a few generations.
>
> In the case of my family in Faial, my grandfather's youngest sister
> remained in the house to care for their mother and she remained in the
> house after their mother died. Her last name was Leal, same as everyone
> else in the family. She married "the boy next door" whose family name was
> Coelho; however, she deemed "rabbit" an inappropriate name for a woman, so
> she never changed her last name. In turn, both her sons used the name
> Coelho, but she used Leal with her daughter, which she still does, long
> after her marriage to Abreu (another boy next door). Maintaining the Leal
> name ties her with the property and signals everyone how the property has
> passed from generation to generation.
>
> Another complication is the repetition of the male names José, Manuel,
> Jõao, António, or Carlos. The oldest son quite often gets the same first
> name as his father. I have a neighbor, Manuel Paulino, whose adult son is
> also Manuel. So the two could be told apart, the son uses his mother's
> family name: Manuel Furtado. This is what everyone calls him. In turn, his
> daughters use Paulino as their family name. Thus, their birth certificates
> probably show their parents' last names as different from their own.
>
> In the nearby town of Santo Amaro, most men and many women use two names:
> António Carlos, José Manuel, Maria de Jesus, Mary Jõao, and so on. Many of
> my neighbors do not even know each other's last name Reason: Many of
> the 294 permanent residents have one of three dominant family names:
> Morais, Neves, or Melo. Some have TWO of those names in their "full" names.
> Here in my fourth summer, I am still trying to get the names straight, and
> I frequently have to look at my notes to see who is who. It took me two
> summers to determine whether it's António Carlos or Carlos António I call
> for delivery of the gas cannisters. And then I had to spend another summer
> getting straight whether I was to call António Carlos Melo Neves or António
> Carlos Neves Melo! Finally, I have it right.
>
> Really, getting the names straight among the living is difficult enough;
> searching through old records seems nearly impossible. But as many of us
> have found out, the results are worth the effort!
>
> Tomás Leal
>
> --
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> membership."
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>
>



-- 
Hugs and Blessings from Karen (Medeiros) Huffman in Paso Robles, CA USA

Searching for Medeiros and Cabral in Sao Miguel, Santos, Silva and Costa in
Terceira Acores.

Searching for Anderson and Swanson in Sweden and Schaeffer and Schommer in
Germany.

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question- How are last names passed down in Azorean Culture?

[Tomas Leal]

The naming practice is just as confusing to me when I am in the Azores 
among the living as it is in searching documents. I have neighbors I know 
are related to each other with different family names. Some children use 
the father's family name, others use the mother's.

One factor, I've learned, is the repetition of the same handful of given 
names. Most women have Maria as their first given name, which means most 
women have the same name.  How do you distinguish one from the other? Some 
use a combination of first and second names as in "Maria Santo Christo" or 
"Maria da Paz." Some go entirely by the second name. Many women named 
"Maria Conceição" go only by Conceição. One family here of four sisters is 
an example. Each one is Maria, though only the first one uses that name 
(Maria da Gloria), the next two (twins) use only their second names, and 
the fourth one goes back and forth between Maria Margarida and just 
Margarida. In her case two different people talking about her to me might 
use different names to refer to her. As for a family name, that can depend 
upon whose land the family now lives on. All four of these sisters use 
their family name, not their husbands' names, primarily because their 
family has been a prominent one for a few generations.

In the case of my family in Faial, my grandfather's youngest sister 
remained in the house to care for their mother and she remained in the 
house after their mother died. Her last name was Leal, same as everyone 
else in the family. She married "the boy next door" whose family name was 
Coelho; however, she deemed "rabbit" an inappropriate name for a woman, so 
she never changed her last name. In turn, both her sons used the name 
Coelho, but she used Leal with her daughter, which she still does, long 
after her marriage to Abreu (another boy next door). Maintaining the Leal 
name ties her with the property and signals everyone how the property has 
passed from generation to generation.

Another complication is the repetition of the male names José, Manuel, 
Jõao, António, or Carlos. The oldest son quite often gets the same first 
name as his father. I have a neighbor, Manuel Paulino, whose adult son is 
also Manuel. So the two could be told apart, the son uses his mother's 
family name: Manuel Furtado. This is what everyone calls him. In turn, his 
daughters use Paulino as their family name. Thus, their birth certificates 
probably show their parents' last names as different from their own.

In the nearby town of Santo Amaro, most men and many women use two names: 
António Carlos, José Manuel, Maria de Jesus, Mary Jõao, and so on. Many of 
my neighbors do not even know each other's last name Reason: Many of 
the 294 permanent residents have one of three dominant family names: 
Morais, Neves, or Melo. Some have TWO of those names in their "full" names. 
Here in my fourth summer, I am still trying to get the names straight, and 
I frequently have to look at my notes to see who is who. It took me two 
summers to determine whether it's António Carlos or Carlos António I call 
for delivery of the gas cannisters. And then I had to spend another summer 
getting straight whether I was to call António Carlos Melo Neves or António 
Carlos Neves Melo! Finally, I have it right.

Really, getting the names straight among the living is difficult enough; 
searching through old records seems nearly impossible. But as many of us 
have found out, the results are worth the effort!

Tomás Leal

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Chips in ATM and Bank Cards for travel in the Azores

[Nancy Hoopes]

Thank you for the good info on credit cards without CHIP.  Glad it will work.  
Nancy





From: Marie 
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, April 10, 2013 1:48:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Chips in ATM and Bank Cards 
for travel in the Azores

I used a regular Bank of America Visa Credit card this past February and March 
with just the strip.  No problems. 


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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Chips in ATM and Bank Cards for travel in the Azores

[Marie]

I used a regular Bank of America Visa Credit card this past February and March 
with just the strip.  No problems. 

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Chips in ATM and Bank Cards for travel in the Azores

[Tomas Leal]

On Sunday, April 7, 2013 8:32:25 AM UTC-7, nan wrote:
>
> Question about ATM and Credit Cards.  Thank you. But does it need to have 
> a chip?  My cards just have a magnetic strip (no chip).  I hear a card with 
> a chip is  needed throughout Europe. Nancy
>
>
> Oops. Let me clarify my first sentence: My card is the standard American 
version with only a magnetic stripe, no chip. 

Tomás Leal

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Chips in ATM and Bank Cards for travel in the Azores

[Nancy Hoopes]

Question about ATM and Credit Cards.  Thank you. But does it need to have a 
chip?  My cards just have a magnetic strip (no chip).  I hear a card with a 
chip 
is  needed throughout Europe. Nancy





From: Tomas Leal 
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Cc: Azores Genealogy 
Sent: Sat, April 6, 2013 11:36:14 PM
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Chips in ATM and Bank Cards for 
travel in the Azores

My Bank of the West card has always worked in every ATM in the Azores. I use it 
to get cash in euros (the daily maximum is 200 euros, regardless of any higher 
limit your bank might set). It's always been accepted as a credit card when I 
needed it, though in grocery stores there can be some confusion because 
"everybody" uses debit cards rather than credit cards. My card is actually a 
debit card, but I have to treat it as a credit card in such a situation. 

Before you go, it's always a good idea to notify your bank or credit card 
company you will be going to Portugal and using your card. Because I go for 
twelve weeks (I know, lucky me!) I don't want my bank wondering why my card is 
being used for so long outside the U.S.  Fortunately, Portugal is a 
low-incident 
of fraud country so there's rarely any problem. In contrast, Brazil is high in 
fraud and I twice had to call my bank from Rio to question because my card 
didn't work. The problem was cleared up within five minutes, and I was fine 
until a few days later because someone at the bank hadn't noted I would be in 
Brazil for a few weeks. On the second call, everything was fine the rest of the 
trip.

Tomás Leal

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Chips in ATM and Bank Cards for travel in the Azores

[Tomas Leal]

My Bank of the West card has always worked in every ATM in the Azores. I 
use it to get cash in euros (the daily maximum is 200 euros, regardless of 
any higher limit your bank might set). It's always been accepted as a 
credit card when I needed it, though in grocery stores there can be some 
confusion because "everybody" uses debit cards rather than credit cards. My 
card is actually a debit card, but I have to treat it as a credit card in 
such a situation. 

Before you go, it's always a good idea to notify your bank or credit card 
company you will be going to Portugal and using your card. Because I go for 
twelve weeks (I know, lucky me!) I don't want my bank wondering why my card 
is being used for so long outside the U.S.  Fortunately, Portugal is a 
low-incident of fraud country so there's rarely any problem. In contrast, 
Brazil is high in fraud and I twice had to call my bank from Rio to 
question because my card didn't work. The problem was cleared up within 
five minutes, and I was fine until a few days later because someone at the 
bank hadn't noted I would be in Brazil for a few weeks. On the second call, 
everything was fine the rest of the trip.

Tomás Leal

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on "unknown father'

[John Raposo]

Actually, that might be true for an unwed mother, but not in the case of a 
child born to a married couple. However, in the case of an unknown father out 
at sea at the time of the birth, he certainly had many years thereafter to 
appear at the registry and claim paternity which would have been entered in the 
margin of the birth record.

 


 From: Shirley 
To: azores@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2012 12:00 PM
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on "unknown father'
  

I visited the Azores in 2004.  At that time I was told that it was necessary 
for both the Mother & Father to appear to register the birth of a child.  Since 
the Father was often off on a fishing boat for months, the father would be 
listed as "unknown".


On Friday, December 7, 2012 11:03:09 PM UTC-8, Eileen Leite wrote:
I have been reading baptismal records from Matriz Mae de Deus, Povoacao, Sao 
Miguel, in 1811-1818.  I see what I think is a high number of illegitimate 
births, “Pais incognito” and “(child) natural”, and have some questions.
> 
>1.   It seems that almost every time there is a Pais incognito (father 
>unknown), the record notes that the mother is married to a named someone who 
>is NOT the father of the child. (Casada com or mulher de) Rarely it will say 
>“pais incognito” and (Mother) solteira.  If the mother is single, the format 
>is usually different, and says merely “(Child) of (Mother), Single” or 
>“(Child) natural of (Mother)” .  Does the priest have a choice in what he 
>writes, or is there a different implication in the format chosen for the 
>record? 
> 
>2.   I counted 13 illegitimate children in a mere 36 pages, or 72 
>records.  That is 18%.  Of these, 9 were born to mothers married to men other 
>than the father.  Removing the babies born to single mothers, 2 in 15 babies 
>born to married women were not of her husband.  This seems really high to me.  
>Were the husbands away for some reason?  Or was there a reason a  woman would 
>not claim her own husband to be the father of the child?   Just wondering what 
>was going on. 
> 
>Would anyone know why there were so many illegitimate births? 
> 
>Thanks!
> 
>Eileen Leite
>Currently seeking Rebellos/Rabellos and de Frias in Povoacao, 
>And Brandao in Nordeste. 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on "unknown father'

[Cheri Mello]

When the father was known but couldn't attend (away fishing or whatever),
I've seen that listed as absent, or ausente.  Unknown from my research
meant that they did not know his name (or in reality, would not state his
name).
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on "unknown father'

[Shirley]

I visited the Azores in 2004.  At that time I was told that it was 
necessary for both the Mother & Father to appear to register the birth of a 
child.  Since the Father was often off on a fishing boat for months, the 
father would be listed as "unknown".
 

On Friday, December 7, 2012 11:03:09 PM UTC-8, Eileen Leite wrote:

> I have been reading baptismal records from Matriz Mae de Deus, Povoacao, 
> Sao Miguel, in 1811-1818.  I see what I think is a high number of 
> illegitimate births, “Pais incognito” and “(child) natural”, and have some 
> questions.
>
>  
>
> 1.   It seems that almost every time there is a Pais incognito 
> (father unknown), the record notes that the mother is married to a named 
> someone who is NOT the father of the child. (Casada com or mulher de) 
> Rarely it will say “pais incognito” and (Mother) solteira.  If the mother 
> is single, the format is usually different, and says merely “(Child) of 
> (Mother), Single” or “(Child) natural of (Mother)” .  Does the priest have 
> a choice in what he writes, or is there a different implication in the 
> format chosen for the record? 
>
>  
>
> 2.   I counted 13 illegitimate children in a mere 36 pages, or 72 
> records.  That is 18%.  Of these, 9 were born to mothers married to men 
> other than the father.  Removing the babies born to single mothers, 2 in 15 
> babies born to married women were not of her husband.  This seems really 
> high to me.  Were the husbands away for some reason?  Or was there a reason 
> a  woman would not claim her own husband to be the father of the child? 
>   Just wondering what was going on. 
>
>  
>
> Would anyone know why there were so many illegitimate births? 
>
>  
>
> Thanks!
>
>  
>
> Eileen Leite
>
> Currently seeking Rebellos/Rabellos and de Frias in Povoacao, 
>
> And Brandao in Nordeste. 
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question regarding early settlers and their descendants

[DaveBoy]

Many thanks!  I've received two responses, each with exactly what I need.  
Dave
 

On Wednesday, November 7, 2012 7:33:58 AM UTC-8, DaveBoy wrote:

> I've been researching my family in Sao Miguel for over fifteen years and I 
> have many lines back into the 1600's.  One in particular, the Rego Baldaia 
> line, appears on both my mother's and father's side of the family.  My 
> problem is I'm one (two?) records away from connecting up with the known 
> early Rego Baldaia settlers on the island.  I was told some years ago by an 
> "expert" that I do connect through a record in which the priest wrote the 
> wrong name.  Well, with that interpretation I could also be related to the 
> Queen of England.  Anyway, I got to thinking maybe I'm going at this from 
> the wrong direction.  Perhaps if I had the descendants of these early folks 
> it would extend far enough into the early 1600's so I could then match up 
> one or more to the records I do have.  So my questions are, do these things 
> exist in readily available form?  Do they extend into the 1600's?  Any 
> suggestions?
> Many thanks, Dave 
>

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question regarding foundling children

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

While the name Joao de Camara is the same, the name of the spouse is
different. I would say that most likely it is two men that had the same name
unless you can find out if one of the women is a second wife. In other words
I would look for the marriage of Joao de Camera and Anna de Jesus Losados to
see if it was a second marriage. 

 

The names Joao de Camera is a common name.

 

Rick

 

Richard Francis Pimentel

Spring, TX

Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire 

 

Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and Ponta
Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Carole Medeiros - researching Medeiros & Carlos Sao Miguel, Neto Sao Jorge
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 4:01 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question regarding foundling children

 

I just found the marriage record for my husband's 3rd great-grandparents,
Joao de Medeiros and Maria Ricardo, of Ajuda de Brehanha, 26th Mar 1843, and
the parents of Maria are listed Jose da Camara and Anna de Jesus Losados. 

 

Could this be the same Jose da Camara mentioned below?

 

Thanks.

Carole Medeiros


On Sunday, September 9, 2012 5:47:40 AM UTC-7, Lee wrote:

I was told that Joao da Camara, husband of Ana Joaquina de Souza; was
foundling and was raised by Francisco Manuel da Grota and Madalena Arruda do
Couto.

 

My question; would Joao (born I'd say between 1820-1833 beause Ana was born
1833) have had a baptismal record?  Would it be worth it for me to try and
find it?

 

Also, believe Ana died in 1882 per the note on the left side of her
baptismal record - but not sure about that.

 

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

Lee

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question regarding foundling children

[Carole Medeiros - researching Medeiros & Carlos Sao Miguel, Neto Sao Jorge]

I just found the marriage record for my husband's 3rd great-grandparents, 
Joao de Medeiros and Maria Ricardo, of Ajuda de Brehanha, 26th Mar 1843, 
and the parents of Maria are listed Jose da Camara and Anna de Jesus 
Losados. 
 
Could this be the same Jose da Camara mentioned below?
 
Thanks.
Carole Medeiros

On Sunday, September 9, 2012 5:47:40 AM UTC-7, Lee wrote:

> I was told that Joao da Camara, husband of Ana Joaquina de Souza; was 
> foundling and was raised by Francisco Manuel da Grota and Madalena Arruda 
> do Couto.
>  
> My question; would Joao (born I'd say between 1820-1833 beause Ana was 
> born 1833) have had a baptismal record?  Would it be worth it for me to try 
> and find it?
>  
> Also, believe Ana died in 1882 per the note on the left side of her 
> baptismal record - but not sure about that.
>  
> Any help greatly appreciated.
>  
> Lee
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Terceira, Sao Miguel versus Terceira Island

[Cheri Mello]

Lee,

All I can think of is that they weren't thinking when they were asked these
things and someone said the wrong thing on account of his sudden death.

What does his death certificate say about his place of birth?  What does
the U.S. censuses say?  The 1940 is out and you can search that on Ancestry
if you have a subscription or on FamilySearch for free.

Chase Florence de Mello, his wife.  There may be clues on hers that will
lead you to the hubby.  I'd tell you to chase his brother on the island of
Terceira, but without the exact location, it's like looking for him in the
U.S. with no known state.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question regarding foundling children

[Lee]

Cheri, 
 
Information on the Joao being a foundling was given to me John Miranda 
Raposo.  He said there is an extensive pedigree for Joao and Ana De Souza 
da Camara.
 
I'll try and see if I can find something.
 
Again, thanks!
Lee...

On Sunday, September 9, 2012 8:47:40 AM UTC-4, Lee wrote:

> I was told that Joao da Camara, husband of Ana Joaquina de Souza; was 
> foundling and was raised by Francisco Manuel da Grota and Madalena Arruda 
> do Couto.
>  
> My question; would Joao (born I'd say between 1820-1833 beause Ana was 
> born 1833) have had a baptismal record?  Would it be worth it for me to try 
> and find it?
>  
> Also, believe Ana died in 1882 per the note on the left side of her 
> baptismal record - but not sure about that.
>  
> Any help greatly appreciated.
>  
> Lee
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about surnames in a family tree

[Cheri Mello]

Deb,

I'd have to look up the exact dates, but there are 3 time periods.

The 2nd time period is something like the mid-1800s to 1910.  This is
mostly where you find women without surnames.  So I don't assign any as
they didn't have any in their lifetime.

The women who had surnames (Joana Fereira, Maria Viera, Barbara Pereira), I
give them surnames because that is how they were known in their lifetime.

I know it sounds crazy and it drives people nuts in the beginning, but you
will get used to it.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about surnames in a family tree

[Deb McCabe]

I appreciate everyone's help on my surname question.  Thank you.  

The responses do raise another question.  I have some women in my tree with 
full names that appear to end in what sounds like a surname, e.g., Joana 
Fereira, Maria Viera, Barbara Pereira.  Should I treat these women as NOT 
having a surname or should I use Fereira, Viera, or Pereira as the last name?  

Since I am new to studying the Portuguese side of my family, I don't want to 
get into bad habits nor do I want to make it hard for other researchers to make 
sense of my family tree once I put it online.

Again, thanks for everyone's help.

Deb
 
When I searched for ancestors, I found friends!



>
> From: John Vasconcelos 
>To: azores@googlegroups.com 
>Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:09 PM
>Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about surnames in a family tree
> 
>
>There are some interesting exceptions to this. If the woman is from a 
>prominent family, she may not only carry a surname but may pass it on to a 
>son. In my own family tree, I have a Barbara Furtada married to a Jose 
>Lourenco. They have a son, Jose Furtado, married to a Francisca de Freitas, 
>who in turn have a have a son Manual Furtado. This from the mid 1700's.
>John Vasconcelos
>
>
>On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Dano  wrote:
>
>As a rule, women and children were not given surnames. If Maria
>>Antonia did take a surname you should find it listed in her "Obito;"
>>otherwise, just go with what you have, and leave the surname blank. If
>>you're using a PAF database, use a double slash (//)
>>after the given name, and, it will be entered properly.
>>~~
>>
>>On Jul 24, 2:00 pm, DBM  wrote:
>>> I am trying to enter all of my newly discovered relatives into my genealogy
>>> software and am hoping that someone can answer a question.
>>>
>>> What is the best way to list individuals in the software when the last name
>>> is unknown?
>>>
>>> For example, I have a couple in my tree.  The husband is Antonio Pereira
>>> MACIEL, and the wife is Maria Antonia (no surname listed). Maria Antonia's
>>> parents are Antonio Rodrigues JORGE and Maria Antonia.  Do I list the
>>> daughter as Maria Antonia UNKNOWN?  Do I list her as Maria Antonia JORGE,
>>> as a way to differentiate her from her mother and other Maria's in my tree,
>>> even though that isn't her surname?  Do I list her as Maria Antonia MACIEL,
>>> since that is her husband's surname?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any insights!
>>>
>>> Deb
>>
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>>
>
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>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about surnames in a family tree

[John Vasconcelos]

*There are some interesting exceptions to this. If the woman is from a
prominent family, she may not only carry a surname but may pass it on to a
son. In my own family tree, I have a Barbara Furtada married to a Jose
Lourenco. They have a son, Jose Furtado, married to a Francisca de Freitas,
who in turn have a have a son Manual Furtado. This from the mid 1700's.
John Vasconcelos
*
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Dano  wrote:

> As a rule, women and children were not given surnames. If Maria
> Antonia did take a surname you should find it listed in her "Obito;"
> otherwise, just go with what you have, and leave the surname blank. If
> you're using a PAF database, use a double slash (//)
> after the given name, and, it will be entered properly.
> ~~
> On Jul 24, 2:00 pm, DBM  wrote:
> > I am trying to enter all of my newly discovered relatives into my
> genealogy
> > software and am hoping that someone can answer a question.
> >
> > What is the best way to list individuals in the software when the last
> name
> > is unknown?
> >
> > For example, I have a couple in my tree.  The husband is Antonio Pereira
> > MACIEL, and the wife is Maria Antonia (no surname listed). Maria
> Antonia's
> > parents are Antonio Rodrigues JORGE and Maria Antonia.  Do I list the
> > daughter as Maria Antonia UNKNOWN?  Do I list her as Maria Antonia JORGE,
> > as a way to differentiate her from her mother and other Maria's in my
> tree,
> > even though that isn't her surname?  Do I list her as Maria Antonia
> MACIEL,
> > since that is her husband's surname?
> >
> > Thanks for any insights!
> >
> > Deb
>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about surnames in a family tree

[Dano]

As a rule, women and children were not given surnames. If Maria
Antonia did take a surname you should find it listed in her "Obito;"
otherwise, just go with what you have, and leave the surname blank. If
you're using a PAF database, use a double slash (//)
after the given name, and, it will be entered properly.
~~
On Jul 24, 2:00 pm, DBM  wrote:
> I am trying to enter all of my newly discovered relatives into my genealogy
> software and am hoping that someone can answer a question.
>
> What is the best way to list individuals in the software when the last name
> is unknown?
>
> For example, I have a couple in my tree.  The husband is Antonio Pereira
> MACIEL, and the wife is Maria Antonia (no surname listed). Maria Antonia's
> parents are Antonio Rodrigues JORGE and Maria Antonia.  Do I list the
> daughter as Maria Antonia UNKNOWN?  Do I list her as Maria Antonia JORGE,
> as a way to differentiate her from her mother and other Maria's in my tree,
> even though that isn't her surname?  Do I list her as Maria Antonia MACIEL,
> since that is her husband's surname?
>
> Thanks for any insights!
>
> Deb

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question about

[John Raposo]

Good luck Suzanne; I wish you complete success!
 
John

From: sdarosa 
To: Azores Genealogy  
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 8:33 AM
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question about

Hi John,
thanks for your input.  There is nothing on Victorina's birth record
and I'm in the process of searching for an obit for a Maria Thereza,
first - hoping that would be easiest as many women's first and middle
names are listed, as opposed to the births which rarely, if at all,
list more than a first name for women, especially in the 1700's.  Then
I'll on to births/marriages.  There is one birth in Velas, Maria to
Manoel d'Avilar, different spelling  but about the time frame.  I
haven't searched urzelina yet.  This is a big project, but since I am
looking at a lot of other family members right now, I"m hoping I'll
just run across something as I go through records.  Meantime, I
appreciate your feedback and will keep you posted.

Victorina Claudina, her daughter, it appears never remarried and was
single from 1846 when her husband died until 1880.  I've searched all
the marriage records during this time hoping to find she had remarried
and that there would be information but it doesn't appear to be so and
they don't list any husbands except her first husband Jose da Rosa
Furtado de Mendonca.

ahhh.. such fun.

thanks again
Suzanne

On Feb 9, 6:25 am, John Raposo  wrote:
> Wow! You have your work cut out for you with no certainty of ever having a 
> definitive answer to your questions. It is not safe to assume that the family 
> name of Vitorina's biological mother was Avellar but it can be a working 
> hypothesis. There is no way of telling if Avellar was her mother or father's 
> name, but I would venture a starting hypothesis that it comes from either her 
> maternal grandfather or grandmother's line.
>
> You could start by estimating the year of Maria Teresa's birth and during 
> that time period (remember she could have had the child between the ages of 
> 15 to 45!!) in the birth records of Velas you can see if there is an Avellar 
> couple having a child Maria Teresa. This may be unproductive because Maria 
> Teresa was probably baptized simply as Maria. However, if there were not too 
> many Avellars during this time period having daughters named Maria, you could 
> further narrow your working hypothesis.
>
> You should also look for a death record for a Maria Teresa de Avellar in 
> Urzelina or Velas, and see if that record gives you any further clues. It was 
> not unusual for a woman giving birth in one village to leave him on the 
> doorsteps of somebody in another village. It is also possible that Maria 
> Teresa of Velas had hired herself out as a servant to a family in Urzelina. 
> If we had access to the Easter Duty lists (the closest thing to a census in 
> those days) we could see if there was a single woman names Maria Teresa from 
> Velas, serving in the household of, who made her confession during the 
> Easter season of
>
> I suppose you have already checked Vitorina's baptismal record and checked to 
> see if any acknowledgement of parenthood was later noted in the margin of the 
> record. That would resolve the mystery. I suppose you've checked to make sure 
> that Avellar does not run in the lines of either the foster father or foster 
> mother.
>
> So, this may very well be an interesting, time consuming and quite possibly 
> futile search. It helps understand why genealogists, sometimes presented 
> with these projects, charge what appears to the client to be an exhorbitant 
> fee, when in actuality what the client is paying for are many hours spent 
> chasing down something that does not exist. I try and warn my clients of this 
> likely outcome and I personnaly do not like taking on these projects since 
> the results are likely to be disappointing.
>
> Still, I have two "dead ends" in my line that I have been able to 
> conclusively track down and determine the identity of the mother in one case, 
> and of both parents in the other, and their respective lineage, so it can 
> sometimes be done.
>
> Good luck, and I hope I have not been too discouraging.
>
> John Miranda Raposo
>
> From: sdarosa 
> To: Azores Genealogy 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 5:58 PM
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] question about
>
> I have a question about how to look for information regarding my gr gr
> grandmother who was left on the doorstep of a family, Urzelina, Sao
> Jorge.
>
> The early records for her show that her parents were unknown. But 25
> years later, as I read her children's birth and marriage records, it
> shows her name as Victorina Claudia de Avellar (not the last name of
> the people who raised her)
>

[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question about

[sdarosa]

Hi John,
thanks for your input.  There is nothing on Victorina's birth record
and I'm in the process of searching for an obit for a Maria Thereza,
first - hoping that would be easiest as many women's first and middle
names are listed, as opposed to the births which rarely, if at all,
list more than a first name for women, especially in the 1700's.  Then
I'll on to births/marriages.  There is one birth in Velas, Maria to
Manoel d'Avilar, different spelling  but about the time frame.  I
haven't searched urzelina yet.  This is a big project, but since I am
looking at a lot of other family members right now, I"m hoping I'll
just run across something as I go through records.  Meantime, I
appreciate your feedback and will keep you posted.

Victorina Claudina, her daughter, it appears never remarried and was
single from 1846 when her husband died until 1880.  I've searched all
the marriage records during this time hoping to find she had remarried
and that there would be information but it doesn't appear to be so and
they don't list any husbands except her first husband Jose da Rosa
Furtado de Mendonca.

ahhh.. such fun.

thanks again
Suzanne

On Feb 9, 6:25 am, John Raposo  wrote:
> Wow! You have your work cut out for you with no certainty of ever having a 
> definitive answer to your questions. It is not safe to assume that the family 
> name of Vitorina's biological mother was Avellar but it can be a working 
> hypothesis. There is no way of telling if Avellar was her mother or father's 
> name, but I would venture a starting hypothesis that it comes from either her 
> maternal grandfather or grandmother's line.
>
> You could start by estimating the year of Maria Teresa's birth and during 
> that time period (remember she could have had the child between the ages of 
> 15 to 45!!) in the birth records of Velas you can see if there is an Avellar 
> couple having a child Maria Teresa. This may be unproductive because Maria 
> Teresa was probably baptized simply as Maria. However, if there were not too 
> many Avellars during this time period having daughters named Maria, you could 
> further narrow your working hypothesis.
>
> You should also look for a death record for a Maria Teresa de Avellar in 
> Urzelina or Velas, and see if that record gives you any further clues. It was 
> not unusual for a woman giving birth in one village to leave him on the 
> doorsteps of somebody in another village. It is also possible that Maria 
> Teresa of Velas had hired herself out as a servant to a family in Urzelina. 
> If we had access to the Easter Duty lists (the closest thing to a census in 
> those days) we could see if there was a single woman names Maria Teresa from 
> Velas, serving in the household of, who made her confession during the 
> Easter season of
>
> I suppose you have already checked Vitorina's baptismal record and checked to 
> see if any acknowledgement of parenthood was later noted in the margin of the 
> record. That would resolve the mystery. I suppose you've checked to make sure 
> that Avellar does not run in the lines of either the foster father or foster 
> mother.
>
> So, this may very well be an interesting, time consuming and quite possibly 
> futile search. It helps understand why genealogists, sometimes presented 
> with these projects, charge what appears to the client to be an exhorbitant 
> fee, when in actuality what the client is paying for are many hours spent 
> chasing down something that does not exist. I try and warn my clients of this 
> likely outcome and I personnaly do not like taking on these projects since 
> the results are likely to be disappointing.
>
> Still, I have two "dead ends" in my line that I have been able to 
> conclusively track down and determine the identity of the mother in one case, 
> and of both parents in the other, and their respective lineage, so it can 
> sometimes be done.
>
> Good luck, and I hope I have not been too discouraging.
>
> John Miranda Raposo
>
> From: sdarosa 
> To: Azores Genealogy 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 5:58 PM
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] question about
>
> I have a question about how to look for information regarding my gr gr
> grandmother who was left on the doorstep of a family, Urzelina, Sao
> Jorge.
>
> The early records for her show that her parents were unknown. But 25
> years later, as I read her children's birth and marriage records, it
> shows her name as Victorina Claudia de Avellar (not the last name of
> the people who raised her)
>
> All of the later records, including her obituary say father unknown
> but that her mother is Maria Thereza from the same parish/ Velas.
>
> What I'm wondering is if it is safe to assume that if Victorina used
> the name de Avellar, was mother's last name also Avellar.. and if so,
> does anyone have any idea if which line - paternal or maternal that
> the name Avellar came from?
>
> Lastly, if the records show Maria Thereza is from the same parish,
> Velas, that I might f

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question what is an A file?

[Vivian Christy]

E, Thank you. Vivian

--- On Wed, 2/10/10, "E" Sharp  wrote:


From: "E" Sharp 
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question what is an A file?
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 8:19 PM



Vivian,
 
Trevor previously sent this site which explains the Alien Registration Form.
 
tp://homepage.mac.com/kmacardoza/Genealogy/HowTo_Part_1e.html#alien

"E"
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question what is an A file?

["E" Sharp]

Vivian,

Trevor previously sent this site which explains the Alien Registration Form.

*tp://homepage.mac.com/kmacardoza/Genealogy/HowTo_Part_1e.html#alien*

"E"

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question what is an A file?

[Vivian Christy]

Hello group,
 
I must have missed a discussion about the A file as I do not remember what it 
is exactly. Can anyone tell me.  Thank you, Vivian (Silva) Christy


  

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on the Translation of Isabel Ramos baptisim

[nancy jean baptiste]

Hi Steven,

If you look at the translation I sent this morning you'll see that the father 
has the name Caetano but on the second page the grandfather is Jose Coelho 
Ramosnot Caetano

Nancy jean
 


From: skmcnam...@comcast.net
To: Azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on the Translation of Isabel Ramos 
baptisim
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:27:41 -0400







Hi,
 
The translation you did today shows Isabel’s father as Jose Caetano Ramos and 
mother Policena de Jesus.
 
I have the marriage information in New Bedford for Isabel showing her father as 
Jose Coelho Ramos and Policena de Jesus Freitas.  Isabel has two sisters Maria 
and Policena who also came to New Bedford and their marriage information shows 
the same parents for them.  
 
So I was wondering if the priest wrote Caetano by mistake, when he meant to 
write Coelho?  
 
The marriage you listed for Jose Ramos to Ana Emilia was his first marriage.  
There should be another one for him listed as Jose Coelho Ramos married to 
Policena de Jesus Freitas, 17 Feb. 1852 in Nossa Senhora do Rosario, Flores.  
 
Steven
 


_
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on the Translation of Isabel Ramos baptisim

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Steven,

I double checked (because I didn't bring my reading glasses to RI) and it
says Caetano and not Coelho in the baptism of Izabel.

On page 59 of "Casais das Flores e do Corvo" 7th from the bottom, it says:
Jose Coelho Ramos, son of Jose Coelho Ramos and of Isabel Maria de Jesus,
widower of Ana Emilia, married 1852 Feb 17 to Policena de Jesus, dau. of
Francisco de Freitas Sego and of Rita de Sao Jose.

OK, so you're saying you see him as Jose Coelho Ramos in every document so
far, except in the baptism of his daughter, Isabel, where her appears as
Jose Caetano Ramos.  Did the priest make a mistake?  I think he most likely
did.

Personally, I'd just record it as Jose Coelho Ramos.  On the birth of
Isabel, in your genealogy program, somewhere in the note or memo field, put
that the father appears as Jose Caetano Ramos, but it is believe that the
priest erred. (too much vinho!)

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, R. das Tainhas,
Achada

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on the Translation of Isabel Ramos baptisim

[Steven McNamara]

Hi,

 

The translation you did today shows Isabel's father as Jose Caetano Ramos
and mother Policena de Jesus.

 

I have the marriage information in New Bedford for Isabel showing her father
as Jose Coelho Ramos and Policena de Jesus Freitas.  Isabel has two sisters
Maria and Policena who also came to New Bedford and their marriage
information shows the same parents for them.  

 

So I was wondering if the priest wrote Caetano by mistake, when he meant to
write Coelho?  

 

The marriage you listed for Jose Ramos to Ana Emilia was his first marriage.
There should be another one for him listed as Jose Coelho Ramos married to
Policena de Jesus Freitas, 17 Feb. 1852 in Nossa Senhora do Rosario, Flores.


 

Steven

 


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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on the Translation of Isabel Ramos baptisim

[Cheri Mello]

Whoops!  Misfire there!

Steven,

I'm not sure what you mean by the father's middle name is wrong.  You have 3
marriages, all listing the father of newlywed as Jose Coelho Ramos.  And in
"Casais das Flores e do Corvo" (the Flores marriages), page 204, 3rd from
the bottom, it says:
Jose Coelho Ramos, son of Jose Ramos and of Isabel Maria, married 1845 July
10 to Ana Emilia, dau.of Francisco Lourenco and of Maria Ursula.

Did you find a middle name somewhere else?  Is that why you think the middle
name is wrong?  I'm trying to figure out why you say the middle name is
wrong.

As for the priests making mistakes, yes they did.  I joke around and say
that they had too much vinho.

Cheri

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, R. das Tainhas,
Achada

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on the Translation of Isabel Ramos baptisim

[Cheri Mello]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 7:42 PM, Steven McNamara wrote:

>  Thanks for all the help on the translation.
>
>
>
> I have a question to ask about the accuracy what the priest wrote.  Do they
> make many mistakes?  I have Isabel Ramos and 2 siblings that came to New
> Bedford, all three marriages list the parents as Jose Coelho Ramos and
> Policena de Jesus Frietas.  Do you think the priest may have written the
> fathers middle name wrong?
>
>
>
>  I know someone told me that they had the marriage for Jose and Policena in
> the book of marriages on Flores as 17 Feb 1852.  The marriage listed his
> middle name as Coelho
>
>
>
> I am going to start looking for the sisters to see what their baptisms
> show.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Steven
>
>
>
> >
>


-- 
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, R. das Tainhas,
Achada

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on the Translation of Isabel Ramos baptisim

[Steven McNamara]

Thanks for all the help on the translation.  

 

I have a question to ask about the accuracy what the priest wrote.  Do they
make many mistakes?  I have Isabel Ramos and 2 siblings that came to New
Bedford, all three marriages list the parents as Jose Coelho Ramos and
Policena de Jesus Frietas.  Do you think the priest may have written the
fathers middle name wrong?  

 

 I know someone told me that they had the marriage for Jose and Policena in
the book of marriages on Flores as 17 Feb 1852.  The marriage listed his
middle name as Coelho

 

I am going to start looking for the sisters to see what their baptisms show.

 

Thanks,

 

Steven

 


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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on Azorean Naming, In New England

[TTCostaDC]

 
Philip,
 
No.  Sorry, I haven't.  In fact, Costa has been the most  difficult for me to 
research, although I believe my family came from Sao  Miguel.  Good luck, in 
your searching!  Sorry, I couldn't be of more  assistance.
 
-Trevor Costa
 
In a message dated 12/31/2008 7:57:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
pepfrog...@hotmail.com writes:

My  grandfather's last name was Costa and he was from the Pico but his 
ancestor  was a man named Manuel Silveira Dutra da Costa from Fayal (faial).   
Is 
this something you may have seen while checking your Costa.
Thank You  Philip Perry  ( Pereira )
 


From: ttcost...@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:38:20  -0500
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Azorean Naming, In New  England
To: Azores@googlegroups.com


Group,
 
I was told that my great grandmother's last name was da Cambra, and it  turns 
out my great grandfather's middle name was Camara.  Is this a  coincidence, 
or did Azorean men in America sometimes take their wife's last  name for their 
middle name?  I understand that while actually on the  Azores Islands, women 
would choose a religious name to follow their given  name, and that men would 
have a given name and choose an ancestor's last  name.  I also know that 
USUALLY the men acquired middle names that were  nicknames, so that is why I am 
a 
little perplexed.  In America, did the  men take their wives' last names as 
middle names?
 
Thank you.
 
-Trevor Costa



 

 New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making _headlines_ 
(http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom0026) .






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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on Azorean Naming, In New England

[rpimentel]

Is this Ribeirinha, Sao Miguel or Ribeirinha Pico?
 
Rick
 
Richard Francis Pimentel
Epping, New Hampshire, USA
Researching Sao Miguel, Acores for, Pimentel (Costa), Carvalho,
Teixeira, Rocha
 
-Original Message-
From: Azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of madeline hill
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:47 AM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on Azorean Naming, In New
England
 
As I was reading this e-mail  and came across Mr. Perry's name.  My
father who's father (my grandfather) came from Riberinha, Azores.
Carried as his middle name as Perry because somewhere in our relatives
as I was told when I was young that Perry was short for Perreira. I'm
wondering if Mr. Perry is in my Linkage somewhere? Madeline

MAY GOD BLESS YOU LOVE MADELINE & DANNY



  _  

From: pepfrog...@hotmail.com
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on Azorean Naming, In New
England
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:56:36 -0500

My grandfather's last name was Costa and he was from the Pico but his
ancestor was a man named Manuel Silveira Dutra da Costa from Fayal
(faial).  Is this something you may have seen while checking your Costa.
Thank You Philip Perry  ( Pereira )
  _  


From: ttcost...@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:38:20 -0500
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Azorean Naming, In New England
To: Azores@googlegroups.com




Group,
 
I was told that my great grandmother's last name was da Cambra, and it
turns out my great grandfather's middle name was Camara.  Is this a
coincidence, or did Azorean men in America sometimes take their wife's
last name for their middle name?  I understand that while actually on
the Azores Islands, women would choose a religious name to follow their
given name, and that men would have a given name and choose an
ancestor's last name.  I also know that USUALLY the men acquired middle
names that were nicknames, so that is why I am a little perplexed.  In
America, did the men take their wives' last names as middle names?
 
Thank you.
 
-Trevor Costa



  _  

New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines
<http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom0026> .

http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_spe
ed_122008> 


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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on Azorean Naming, In New England

[madeline hill]

As I was reading this e-mail  and came across Mr. Perry's name.  My father 
who's father (my grandfather) came from Riberinha, Azores.  Carried as his 
middle name as Perry because somewhere in our relatives as I was told when I 
was young that Perry was short for Perreira. I'm  wondering if Mr. Perry is in 
my Linkage somewhere? Madeline

MAY GOD BLESS YOU  LOVE MADELINE & DANNY



From: pepfrog...@hotmail.com
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on Azorean Naming, In New England
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:56:36 -0500








My grandfather's last name was Costa and he was from the Pico but his ancestor 
was a man named Manuel Silveira Dutra da Costa from Fayal (faial).  Is this 
something you may have seen while checking your Costa.

Thank You Philip Perry  ( Pereira )





From: ttcost...@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:38:20 -0500
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Azorean Naming, In New England
To: Azores@googlegroups.com



Group,
 
I was told that my great grandmother's last name was da Cambra, and it turns 
out my great grandfather's middle name was Camara.  Is this a coincidence, or 
did Azorean men in America sometimes take their wife's last name for their 
middle name?  I understand that while actually on the Azores Islands, women 
would choose a religious name to follow their given name, and that men would 
have a given name and choose an ancestor's last name.  I also know that USUALLY 
the men acquired middle names that were nicknames, so that is why I am a little 
perplexed.  In America, did the men take their wives' last names as middle 
names?
 
Thank you.
 
-Trevor Costa





New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122008
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question on Azorean Naming, In New England

[Phil Perry]

My grandfather's last name was Costa and he was from the Pico but his ancestor 
was a man named Manuel Silveira Dutra da Costa from Fayal (faial).  Is this 
something you may have seen while checking your Costa.
Thank You Philip Perry  ( Pereira )



From: ttcost...@aol.comdate: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:38:20 -0500Subject: 
[AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Azorean Naming, In New EnglandTo: 
Azores@googlegroups.com
Group,
 
I was told that my great grandmother's last name was da Cambra, and it turns 
out my great grandfather's middle name was Camara.  Is this a coincidence, or 
did Azorean men in America sometimes take their wife's last name for their 
middle name?  I understand that while actually on the Azores Islands, women 
would choose a religious name to follow their given name, and that men would 
have a given name and choose an ancestor's last name.  I also know that USUALLY 
the men acquired middle names that were nicknames, so that is why I am a little 
perplexed.  In America, did the men take their wives' last names as middle 
names?
 
Thank you.
 
-Trevor Costa


New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making 
headlines._
Life on your PC is safer, easier, and more enjoyable with Windows Vista®. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032870/direct/01/
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[Besotes]

Eric - What a wonderful picture!  Thank you for sharing.  Do you know where 
this picture was taken?  I'm curious.  My great-great uncle who immigrated from 
the Azores in the late 1800's and died in Watsonville, CA in 1933 - at one time 
owned a saloon called the Klondike Saloon.  This information was passed down, 
but we've never found any proof!  All records show he was a grocer and that's 
it.

Robin Borba Besotes
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[gs311]

>From wht I can gather ALL my ancestors since 1700's are from the Lajes, Pico 
>line. //will you be looking at the Uminho site by tracing back from Jose 
>Silveira Soares line?
gordon

-- Original message -- 
From: "eric edgar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

Gordon, 

We may be related through the Silveira Soares line. My ggg granfather was Jose 
Silveira Soares b. ? in Lajes, Pico. He died in 1895, and his widow Isabel 
Josefa Soares came to Sebastapol to join her daughters. Because of the 
information at the Uminho site , I haven't looked at the films for the area, 
but now I think I will.

Eric Edgar


On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 4:00 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Marie:
Thanks for the info. I got a few dates that I didn't have before. It seems  
Your grandfather (JOSE MACHADO SOARES) and my grandmother (MARCELINA GASPAR 
SILVEIRA SOARES) are 3rd cousins twice removed (someday I will understand what 
that really means) and I "think" that makes you and me 5th cousins (how many 
removed?)? You probably already knew all this. 
I find it interesting that Marcelina's cousin Jose has the same name as her 
husband MANUEL MACHADO SOARES but I can't find a link between the two guys.
gordon

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Hi Gordon

We've talked before sometime ago.  I think that you went on vacation or 
something and I didn't hear from you for quite awhile.  I have a hard time 
getting to all of my e-mails because I do receive a lot and my time is limited 
due to running a small business here in San Diego.  Anyway, here is the 
information that you asked about.

MANUEL MACHADO HOMEN (b. 1745 in Lajes, Pico) was a sibling of MARIA RITA (b. 
1742 in Lajes, Pico).  They were the children of ANTONIO MACHADO HOMEM (d. 1787 
in Lajes, Pico) and MARIA ROSARIO (d. 1791 in Lajes, Pico).

Here is the line of MANUEL MACHADO HOMEM.

MANUEL MACHADO HOMEM (b. 1745, brother of MARIA RITA) married AGUEDA FRANCISCA 
SILVEIRA.  Their son was MANUEL MACHADO HOMEN (b. 1778, Lajes, Pico).

MANUEL MACHADO HOMEN (b. 1778) married ANA JOAQUINA JACINTA FRANCISCA (b. 1815, 
Lajes, Pico.  This union produced a daughter by the name of MARIA JACINTO 
ALMEIDA.

MARIA JACINTO ALMEIDA and ? incognito produced a daughter, MARCELINA GASPAR 
SILVEIRA SOARES.   *I know that this is your line.

Here is the line of MARIA RITA (b. 1742, Laje, Pico; sister of MANUEL MACHADO 
HOMEM) 

MARIA RITA (b. 1742) married VICENTE ROSA.  They had a daughter by the name of 
MARIA RITA JOSEFA (b. 1773 in Lajes, Pico).

MARIA RITA JOSEFA (b. 1773) married FRANCISCO MACHADO MEDEIROS in 1790 in 
Lajes, Pico.  This union produced a son named ANTONIO  MACHADO ALVES (b. 1793 
in Lajes, Pico).

ANTONIO MACHADO ALVES (b. 1793) married MARIA FRANCISCA JESUS (b. 1789, Lajes, 
Pico).  From this union came FRANCISCO MACHADO SOARES (b. 1819 in Lajes, Pico; 
my paternal grandfather's grandfather).  

FRANCISCO MACHADO SOARES (b. 1819, Lajes, Pico) married MARIA JOAQUINA 
CONCEICAO (b.  1820, Lajes, Pico).  From this marriage came a son named JOSE 
MACHADO (b. 1855 in Lajes, Pico).

JOSE MACHADO (b. 1855) married MARIANA ROSA AVILA (note: she is listed as AVILA 
on the Minho site but actually the AVILA surname was her second husband's name. 
 She was the daughter of JOSE MACEDO EVANGELHO PORTUGAL and MARIA ROSA 
ROSARIO).  From this union was born one child, JOSE (b. 1881 in Lajes, Pico).  
His name was JOSE MACHADO SOARES, my grandfather.  

I so hope that this explains how the lines are connected.  Any questions?  If 
so, I'll try and answer them.Marie Pleasant, San Diego, CA  [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] 








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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[eric edgar]

Gordon,

We may be related through the Silveira Soares line. My ggg granfather was
Jose Silveira Soares b. ? in Lajes, Pico. He died in 1895, and his widow
Isabel Josefa Soares came to Sebastapol to join her daughters. Because of
the information at the Uminho site , I haven't looked at the films for the
area, but now I think I will.

Eric Edgar

On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 4:00 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Hi Marie:
> Thanks for the info. I got a few dates that I didn't have before. It seems
>  Your grandfather (JOSE MACHADO SOARES) and my grandmother (MARCELINA GASPAR
> SILVEIRA SOARES) are 3rd cousins twice removed (someday I will understand
> what that really means) and I "think" that makes you and me 5th cousins (how
> many removed?)? You probably already knew all this.
> I find it interesting that Marcelina's cousin Jose has the same name as her
> husband MANUEL MACHADO SOARES but I can't find a link between the two guys.
> gordon
>
>
> -- Original message --
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Hi Gordon
>
> We've talked before sometime ago.  I think that you went on vacation or
> something and I didn't hear from you for quite awhile.  I have a hard time
> getting to all of my e-mails because I do receive a lot and my time is
> limited due to running a small business here in San Diego.  Anyway, here is
> the information that you asked about.
>
> MANUEL MACHADO HOMEN (b. 1745 in Lajes, Pico) was a sibling of MARIA RITA
> (b. 1742 in Lajes, Pico).  They were the children of ANTONIO MACHADO HOMEM
> (d. 1787 in Lajes, Pico) and MARIA ROSARIO (d. 1791 in Lajes, Pico).
>
> Here is the line of MANUEL MACHADO HOMEM.
>
> MANUEL MACHADO HOMEM (b. 1745, brother of MARIA RITA) married AGUEDA
> FRANCISCA SILVEIRA.  Their son was MANUEL MACHADO HOMEN (b. 1778, Lajes,
> Pico).
>
> MANUEL MACHADO HOMEN (b. 1778) married ANA JOAQUINA JACINTA FRANCISCA (b.
> 1815, Lajes, Pico.  This union produced a daughter by the name of MARIA
> JACINTO ALMEIDA.
>
> MARIA JACINTO ALMEIDA and ? incognito produced a daughter, MARCELINA GASPAR
> SILVEIRA SOARES.   *I know that this is your line.
>
> Here is the line of MARIA RITA (b. 1742, Laje, Pico; sister of MANUEL
> MACHADO HOMEM)
>
> MARIA RITA (b. 1742) married VICENTE ROSA.  They had a daughter by the name
> of MARIA RITA JOSEFA (b. 1773 in Lajes, Pico).
>
> MARIA RITA JOSEFA (b. 1773) married FRANCISCO MACHADO MEDEIROS in 1790 in
> Lajes, Pico.  This union produced a son named ANTONIO  MACHADO ALVES (b.
> 1793 in Lajes, Pico).
>
> ANTONIO MACHADO ALVES (b. 1793) married MARIA FRANCISCA JESUS (b. 1789,
> Lajes, Pico).  From this union came FRANCISCO MACHADO SOARES (b. 1819 in
> Lajes, Pico; my paternal grandfather's grandfather).
>
> FRANCISCO MACHADO SOARES (b. 1819, Lajes, Pico) married MARIA JOAQUINA
> CONCEICAO (b.  1820, Lajes, Pico).  From this marriage came a son named JOSE
> MACHADO (b. 1855 in Lajes, Pico).
>
> JOSE MACHADO (b. 1855) married MARIANA ROSA AVILA (note: she is listed as
> AVILA on the Minho site but actually the AVILA surname was her second
> husband's name.  She was the daughter of JOSE MACEDO EVANGELHO PORTUGAL and
> MARIA ROSA ROSARIO).  From this union was born one child, JOSE (b. 1881 in
> Lajes, Pico).  His name was JOSE MACHADO SOARES, my grandfather.
>
> I so hope that this explains how the lines are connected.  Any questions?
> If so, I'll try and answer them.Marie Pleasant, San Diego, CA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
>  --
> It's only a deal if it's where *you* want to go. Find your travel deal *
> here* .
> >
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[gs311]

Hi Marie:
Thanks for the info. I got a few dates that I didn't have before. It seems  
Your grandfather (JOSE MACHADO SOARES) and my grandmother (MARCELINA GASPAR 
SILVEIRA SOARES) are 3rd cousins twice removed (someday I will understand what 
that really means) and I "think" that makes you and me 5th cousins (how many 
removed?)? You probably already knew all this. 
I find it interesting that Marcelina's cousin Jose has the same name as her 
husband MANUEL MACHADO SOARES but I can't find a link between the two guys.
gordon

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Hi Gordon

We've talked before sometime ago.  I think that you went on vacation or 
something and I didn't hear from you for quite awhile.  I have a hard time 
getting to all of my e-mails because I do receive a lot and my time is limited 
due to running a small business here in San Diego.  Anyway, here is the 
information that you asked about.

MANUEL MACHADO HOMEN (b. 1745 in Lajes, Pico) was a sibling of MARIA RITA (b. 
1742 in Lajes, Pico).  They were the children of ANTONIO MACHADO HOMEM (d. 1787 
in Lajes, Pico) and MARIA ROSARIO (d. 1791 in Lajes, Pico).

Here is the line of MANUEL MACHADO HOMEM.

MANUEL MACHADO HOMEM (b. 1745, brother of MARIA RITA) married AGUEDA FRANCISCA 
SILVEIRA.  Their son was MANUEL MACHADO HOMEN (b. 1778, Lajes, Pico).

MANUEL MACHADO HOMEN (b. 1778) married ANA JOAQUINA JACINTA FRANCISCA (b. 1815, 
Lajes, Pico.  This union produced a daughter by the name of MARIA JACINTO 
ALMEIDA.

MARIA JACINTO ALMEIDA and ? incognito produced a daughter, MARCELINA GASPAR 
SILVEIRA SOARES.   *I know that this is your line.

Here is the line of MARIA RITA (b. 1742, Laje, Pico; sister of MANUEL MACHADO 
HOMEM) 

MARIA RITA (b. 1742) married VICENTE ROSA.  They had a daughter by the name of 
MARIA RITA JOSEFA (b. 1773 in Lajes, Pico).

MARIA RITA JOSEFA (b. 1773) married FRANCISCO MACHADO MEDEIROS in 1790 in 
Lajes, Pico.  This union produced a son named ANTONIO  MACHADO ALVES (b. 1793 
in Lajes, Pico).

ANTONIO MACHADO ALVES (b. 1793) married MARIA FRANCISCA JESUS (b. 1789, Lajes, 
Pico).  From this union came FRANCISCO MACHADO SOARES (b. 1819 in Lajes, Pico; 
my paternal grandfather's grandfather).  

FRANCISCO MACHADO SOARES (b. 1819, Lajes, Pico) married MARIA JOAQUINA 
CONCEICAO (b.  1820, Lajes, Pico).  From this marriage came a son named JOSE 
MACHADO (b. 1855 in Lajes, Pico).

JOSE MACHADO (b. 1855) married MARIANA ROSA AVILA (note: she is listed as AVILA 
on the Minho site but actually the AVILA surname was her second husband's name. 
 She was the daughter of JOSE MACEDO EVANGELHO PORTUGAL and MARIA ROSA 
ROSARIO).  From this union was born one child, JOSE (b. 1881 in Lajes, Pico).  
His name was JOSE MACHADO SOARES, my grandfather.  

I so hope that this explains how the lines are connected.  Any questions?  If 
so, I'll try and answer them.Marie Pleasant, San Diego, CA  [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] 








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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[Seekgene]

Hi Gordon
 
We've talked before sometime ago.  I think that you went on vacation  or 
something and I didn't hear from you for quite awhile.  I have a  hard time 
getting to all of my e-mails because I do receive a lot and my time is  limited 
due 
to running a small business here in San Diego.  Anyway, here is  the 
information that you asked about.
 
MANUEL MACHADO HOMEN (b. 1745 in Lajes, Pico) was a sibling of MARIA RITA  
(b. 1742 in Lajes, Pico).  They were the children of ANTONIO MACHADO HOMEM  (d. 
1787 in Lajes, Pico) and MARIA ROSARIO (d. 1791 in Lajes, Pico).
 
Here is the line of MANUEL MACHADO HOMEM.
 
MANUEL MACHADO HOMEM (b. 1745, brother of MARIA RITA) married AGUEDA  
FRANCISCA SILVEIRA.  Their son was MANUEL MACHADO HOMEN (b. 1778, Lajes,  Pico).
 
MANUEL MACHADO HOMEN (b. 1778) married ANA JOAQUINA JACINTA FRANCISCA (b.  
1815, Lajes, Pico.  This union produced a daughter by the name of MARIA  
JACINTO 
ALMEIDA.
 
MARIA JACINTO ALMEIDA and ? incognito produced a daughter, MARCELINA GASPAR  
SILVEIRA SOARES.   *I know that this is your line.
 
Here is the line of MARIA RITA (b. 1742, Laje, Pico; sister of MANUEL  
MACHADO HOMEM) 
 
MARIA RITA (b. 1742) married VICENTE ROSA.  They had a daughter by the  name 
of MARIA RITA JOSEFA (b. 1773 in Lajes, Pico).
 
MARIA RITA JOSEFA (b. 1773) married FRANCISCO MACHADO MEDEIROS in  1790 in 
Lajes, Pico.  This union produced a son named ANTONIO  MACHADO ALVES (b. 1793 
in 
Lajes, Pico).
 
ANTONIO MACHADO ALVES (b. 1793) married MARIA FRANCISCA JESUS (b.  1789, 
Lajes, Pico).  From this union came FRANCISCO MACHADO SOARES (b. 1819  in 
Lajes, 
Pico; my paternal grandfather's grandfather).  
 
FRANCISCO MACHADO SOARES (b. 1819, Lajes, Pico) married MARIA JOAQUINA  
CONCEICAO (b.  1820, Lajes, Pico).  From this marriage came a son  named JOSE 
MACHADO (b. 1855 in Lajes, Pico).
 
JOSE MACHADO (b. 1855) married MARIANA ROSA AVILA (note: she is listed as  
AVILA on the Minho site but actually the AVILA surname was her second husband's 
 
name.  She was the daughter of JOSE MACEDO EVANGELHO PORTUGAL and MARIA  ROSA 
ROSARIO).  From this union was born one child, JOSE (b. 1881 in Lajes,  
Pico).  His name was JOSE MACHADO SOARES, my grandfather.  
 
I so hope that this explains how the lines are connected.  Any  questions?  
If so, I'll try and answer them.Marie  Pleasant, San Diego, CA  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])  
 
 



**It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel 
deal here.  
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv000547)

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[gs311]

Celeste:
thanks...I keep forgetting the Okland library. I know the bar was at 34th and 
Hollis in Oakland so I should be able to find something in the phone books.
gordon

-- Original message -- 
From: celeste perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Gordon,
   I think you might be able to find some information about the Marshall's Bar 
at the Oakland Library.  On the second floor, they have a history room and many 
Polk City directories.  I am not sure if they have all the years; however, it 
is worth a try.  
   There were city directories for a lot of the Alameda County Cities and some 
of them (Hayward I know) also included unincorporated areas.  San Leandro did 
not.  If someone lived outside the city limits, they might not make the city 
directory.  
Celeste, Hayward, CA

Celeste Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 






.










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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[celeste perry]

Gordon,
   I think you might be able to find some information about the Marshall's Bar 
at the Oakland Library.  On the second floor, they have a history room and many 
Polk City directories.  I am not sure if they have all the years; however, it 
is worth a try.  
   There were city directories for a lot of the Alameda County Cities and some 
of them (Hayward I know) also included unincorporated areas.  San Leandro did 
not.  If someone lived outside the city limits, they might not make the city 
directory.  
Celeste, Hayward, CA

Celeste Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- On Mon, 8/25/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima
To: Azores@googlegroups.com
Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 7:38 PM



You have the facts straight. Finding out where the Machado came from is what I 
want to do. Someone suggested it was attached to the name Moniz, and indeed 
there is a Moniz in his background thru Ana his mother. I don't believe he ever 
used the name Marshall except for the bar, which I have been trying to locate 
thru old newspaper articles--you know, ads, licenses, etc, but to no avail. I 
thought maybe someone with a subscription to newspaper articles might find an 
ad (or even his death date for that matter, since I only have 1936). Isn't this 
stuff fun?
Gordon
 
-- Original message -- 
From: "Maria Lima" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

Gordon:

I'm hoping people way more knowledgeable than myself here will jump in and try 
to give you some direction.  I saw the 1900 census many years ago before it was 
on Ancestry and they had the Machado name also as Marshall.  So your 
grandfather's bar being called Marshall's is a clue to remember when looking at 
the Marshall name.  When I look at the Ancestry charts and it says Marshall, I 
look to see where they were born.  Many times it says Portugal or Azores; then 
I look at it more closely.

Let me get the names straight:  

Antonio Moniz X Rosa Isabel Perpetual Silva's 
Their daughter - Ana Francisca Perpetua Silva who had a child with X (incognito)
child was named Manuel Machado Soares, b Vila das Lajes do Pico. 

Perhaps you need to find out where the Machado came from.  Are you familiar 
with the microfilms at the family history library? Which ancestor are you 
trying to find?  The incognito?  ; 

Maria Elena

    




 






On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 6:58 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Maria:
I didn't know anything about the Moniz connection with Machado but it is 
interesting since my grandfather's father is "X" (incognito) with Ana Francisca 
Perpetua Silva. Perhaps the Moniz Machado link you are talking about is the one 
connecting my Greatgrandfather "X" to the Machado line that I need to find. It 
is also interesting to note that my grandfather Manuel Machado Soares had a bar 
and grill in Oakland that he called "Marshall's". I just don't know where to go 
nextto find the Machado tie-in to Mr X (if there is one).
Gordon
 
-- Original message -- 
From: "Maria Lima" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

Hi Gordon:

I notice you are researching Moniz and Machado. I  think I read on a Portuguese 
website that Moniz Machado is a name that is usually  linked and goes way back 
to the Moors. I noticed my husband's grandfather who became a dentist back in 
Boston in 1912, always signed his  full name as Domingos Moniz Machado on every 
document we've seen of his.    His brother Clement, on the other hand, when he 
was naturalized,  changed his name to Marshall and just used the initial  
Clement M. Marshall.  It's as though the middle name didn't matter as much.  
(I'm guessing).

I've also come across the name Soares in my husband's mother's little address 
book. There's correspondence from Antonio S. Soares who lived in  San Jose, 
CA.  I've also seen the Soares name as witnesses on some of our ancestors birth 
certificates; all  pieces to the puzzle that haven't fit in yet.  I also have 
an obituary for a Manuel Machado in Boston. but I can't tie him in to the 
family yet although I know there is a connection.

The ancestor with the Moniz Machado name is Domingos and he had 4 brothers and 
one sister.  The only brother I know is the one I mentioned, Clem.  Still  
searching for the other 3  Moniz Machado males in the Boston area in late 
1880's.  

 I'm a bit hesitant  to posting all this,  knowing  it's not exactly what 
you're looking for, however, I'm learning that even when I feel a bit silly 
posting,  I've had replies come back that were just what I was looking for.

Good luck in your search,

Maria Elena
a
P. S. Shirley:  Wow, your grandfather was also a Domingos.  In one of the 
certificates I noticed the pri

[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[gs311]

y used different 
surnames.  My father once told me that his name was really Louis Cambra 
Rebello.  I asked him what happened to Rebello.  He said it was too long so he 
dropped Rebello.
Shirley
- Original Message - 
From: Sam Koester 
To: Azores@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 9:29 AM
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima


Lisa, Cheri and all;  Just a note as to how names changed.  

Up to a certain point in time I had always thought my surname was Coelho from 
Santa Maria, Azores Islands.  At least that's what my grandmother and my father 
used as a surname.  Then as a young adult I made a visit to Lisbon, Portugal.  
On my return I said to my dad, I didn't know our surname was as common in 
Portugal as Smith and Jones is here.  Coelho was on so many shops.  Dad said, 
"Well, you know Coelho isn't really our surname.  It's really Soares."  That 
was the first I'd heard of it.  Dad didn't really know the circumstances of the 
name change.  

In researching the records, it seems my grandfather went by the name of Jose 
Coelho Soares and on his  ships manifest on immigration he lists his father as 
Cordeiro.  How Coelho Soares and Cordeiro all tie together I don't know as I 
haven't been able to read the Santa Maria records well enough to get farther 
back in my research yet.  

So yes, Lisa, all daughters could be named Maria something or other and they 
would be called by that something or other name and records could be under the 
Maria name or the other name or a devotional name.  Parents often gave a second 
son or daughter the name of a deceased son or daughter.  Siblings could and 
often did have different surnames and surnames changed with time.  Oh yes, and 
cousins married cousins too.  You have to read those records very carefully for 
these and many other twists.  This is such a fun hobby we have!  J  Sam in CA
Researching:  Soares, Coelho, Cordeiro, Tavares do Rego in Santa Maria, Faria, 
Catherina in Faial and Fraga, island unknown.

From: Azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cheri Mello
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:10 PM
To: Azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

Lisa,

Some of our grandparents loved to keep the kiddies mesmerized with a few 
embellished stories.

To see if it is true, you will have to trace all lines back.  Not the royalty 
forward.  One of the people who are into the history will chime in here, but 
the king stuff stopped after a certain year.  Now they have presidents or prime 
ministers, I don't remember which.  But to take someone, such as one of the 
early kings from the year 1143 and try to find ALL descendants (and pray 
there's not missing records) and trace it from the continent to the Azores and 
probably Madeira (and maybe Angola and other Portuguese territories of the 
time) and across the Atlantic to you, will probably take a lifetime and a half. 
 You will probably be diagnosed with migraine headaches, too. LOL

I did find a brief history of Portuguese monarchs on Wikipedia: 
http://en.wikipe d ia.org/wiki/List_of_Portuguese_monarchs

You will also find as you do more and more research that your de Lima line will 
turn into something else.  I'm not really a Mello.  I'm a Jacome.

Cheri
>From a whole bunch of peasants, hard working laborers, housewives, and one 
>Knight of Santiago.












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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[gs311]

Great news...can you tell me the line of Jose Machado Soares? That must be an 
uncle of Manuels? Meaning his dad and Jose were brothers? or does it go back 
further than that?
Gordon

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Gordon and Maria Elena,

My grandfather was Jose Machado Soares, born in Lajes, Pico in 1881.  After 
coming to the USA he changed the Soares part of his name to Sawyer.  He became 
known as Joseph M. Sawyer and was naturalized under that name.  He also married 
my grandmother under that name and the first few children that were born were 
also "Sawyers".  Then he decided to change his name to Joseph Marshall and the 
rest of the children that were born were named Marshall, including my father , 
the youngest of nine.  I was born under the name of Marshall.  I have learned  
that that is a common name that many Portuguese took if their surname was 
Machado.  Also, many other immigrants with the surname of Soares changed their 
name to Sears.  Interesting, isn't it?  Many wanted to become thoroughly 
Americanized and sever their roots with the old country.  Sadly, their was a 
lot of prejudice.  

My line through my paternal grandfather does show a relationship to MANUEL 
MACHADO SOARES.  According to FTM, he is a third cousin twice removed of my 
grandfather, Jose Machado Soares/Joseph Marshall.






It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.


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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[Seekgene]

Gordon and Maria Elena,
 
My grandfather was Jose Machado Soares, born in Lajes, Pico in 1881.   After 
coming to the USA he changed the Soares part of his name to  Sawyer.  He 
became known as Joseph M. Sawyer and was naturalized under  that name.  He also 
married my grandmother under that name and the first  few children that were 
born 
were also "Sawyers".  Then he decided to change  his name to Joseph Marshall 
and the rest of the children that were  born were named Marshall, including my 
father , the youngest of  nine.  I was born under the name of Marshall.  I 
have learned   that that is a common name that many Portuguese took if their 
surname was  Machado.  Also, many other immigrants with the surname of Soares 
changed  their name to Sears.  Interesting, isn't it?  Many wanted to  become 
thoroughly Americanized and sever their roots with the old  country.  Sadly, 
their was a lot of prejudice.  
 
My line through my paternal grandfather does show a relationship to MANUEL  
MACHADO SOARES.  According to FTM, he is a third cousin twice  removed of my 
grandfather, Jose Machado Soares/Joseph  Marshall.



**It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel 
deal here.  
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv000547)

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[Maria Lima]

Gordon:

I'm hoping people way more knowledgeable than myself here will jump in and
try to give you some direction.  I saw the 1900 census many years ago before
it was on Ancestry and they had the Machado name also as Marshall.  So your
grandfather's bar being called Marshall's is a clue to remember when looking
at the Marshall name.  When I look at the Ancestry charts and it says
Marshall, I look to see where they were born.  Many times it says Portugal
or Azores; then I look at it more closely.

Let me get the names straight:

Antonio Moniz X Rosa Isabel Perpetual Silva's
Their daughter - Ana Francisca Perpetua Silva who had a child with X
(incognito)
child was named Manuel Machado Soares, b Vila das Lajes do Pico.

Perhaps you need to find out where the Machado came from.  Are you familiar
with the microfilms at the family history library? Which ancestor are you
trying to find?  The incognito?

Maria Elena












On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 6:58 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Maria:
> I didn't know anything about the Moniz connection with Machado but it is
> interesting since my grandfather's father is "X" (incognito) with Ana
> Francisca Perpetua Silva. Perhaps the Moniz Machado link you are talking
> about is the one connecting my Greatgrandfather "X" to the Machado line that
> I need to find. It is also interesting to note that my grandfather Manuel
> Machado Soares had a bar and grill in Oakland that he called "Marshall's". I
> just don't know where to go nextto find the Machado tie-in to Mr X (if there
> is one).
> Gordon
>
>
> -- Original message --
> From: "Maria Lima" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Hi Gordon:
>
> I notice you are researching Moniz and Machado. I  think I read on a
> Portuguese website that Moniz Machado is a name that is usually  linked and
> goes way back to the Moors. I noticed my husband's grandfather who became a
> dentist back in Boston in 1912, always signed his  full name as Domingos
> Moniz Machado on every document we've seen of his.His brother Clement,
> on the other hand, when he was naturalized,  changed his name to Marshall
> and just used the initial  Clement *M.* Marshall.  It's as though the
> middle name didn't matter as much.  (I'm guessing).
>
> I've also come across the name Soares in my husband's mother's little
> address book. There's correspondence from Antonio S. Soares who lived in
> San Jose, CA.  I've also seen the Soares name as witnesses on some of our
> ancestors birth certificates; all  pieces to the puzzle that haven't fit in
> yet.  I also have an obituary for a Manuel Machado in Boston. but I can't
> tie him in to the family yet although I know there is a connection.
>
> The ancestor with the Moniz Machado name is Domingos and he had 4 brothers
> and one sister.  The only brother I know is the one I mentioned, Clem.
> Still  searching for the other 3  Moniz Machado males in the Boston area in
> late 1880's.
>
>  I'm a bit hesitant  to posting all this,  knowing  it's not exactly what
> you're looking for, however, I'm learning that even when I feel a bit silly
> posting,  I've had replies come back that were just what I was looking for.
>
> Good luck in your search,
>
> Maria Elena
> a
> P. S. Shirley:  Wow, your grandfather was also a* Domingos*.  In one of
> the certificates I noticed the priest wrote down Dominic (and said he was
> from Italy.!)
>
> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 2:29 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>  Shirley/Sam:
>> I AM a SOARES so if either of you are connected in some way to ANA
>> FRANCISCA PERPETUA SILVA (mother to MANUEL MACHADO SOARES, my grandfather
>> from Vila das Lajes, do Pico) and her parents of ANTONIO MONIZ (1808-1853)
>> and ROSA ISABEL PERPETUAL (1806-1881), let me know.
>> Gordon Soares
>>
>>
>> -- Original message --
>> From: "Shirley Allegre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Hi Sam:  I am really supposed to be a SOARES not an ALLEGRE.  My husband's
>> grandfather came to the U.S. as Domingos SOARES.  He died as Dominic
>> Allegre.  His father was Antonio SOARES.  They were from Rosais, Sao Jorge,
>> Azores.
>> When my father and his brothers were in grammar school they used different
>> surnames.  My father once told me that his name was really Louis Cambra
>> Rebello.  I asked him what happened to Rebello.  He said it was too long so
>> he dropped Rebello.
>> Shirley
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Sam Koester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> *To:* Azores@googlegroups.

[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[gs311]

Maria:
I didn't know anything about the Moniz connection with Machado but it is 
interesting since my grandfather's father is "X" (incognito) with Ana Francisca 
Perpetua Silva. Perhaps the Moniz Machado link you are talking about is the one 
connecting my Greatgrandfather "X" to the Machado line that I need to find. It 
is also interesting to note that my grandfather Manuel Machado Soares had a bar 
and grill in Oakland that he called "Marshall's". I just don't know where to go 
nextto find the Machado tie-in to Mr X (if there is one).
Gordon

-- Original message -- 
From: "Maria Lima" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

Hi Gordon:

I notice you are researching Moniz and Machado. I  think I read on a Portuguese 
website that Moniz Machado is a name that is usually  linked and goes way back 
to the Moors. I noticed my husband's grandfather who became a dentist back in 
Boston in 1912, always signed his  full name as Domingos Moniz Machado on every 
document we've seen of his.His brother Clement, on the other hand, when he 
was naturalized,  changed his name to Marshall and just used the initial  
Clement M. Marshall.  It's as though the middle name didn't matter as much.  
(I'm guessing).

I've also come across the name Soares in my husband's mother's little address 
book. There's correspondence from Antonio S. Soares who lived in  San Jose, CA. 
 I've also seen the Soares name as witnesses on some of our ancestors birth 
certificates; all  pieces to the puzzle that haven't fit in yet.  I also have 
an obituary for a Manuel Machado in Boston. but I can't tie him in to the 
family yet although I know there is a connection.

The ancestor with the Moniz Machado name is Domingos and he had 4 brothers and 
one sister.  The only brother I know is the one I mentioned, Clem.  Still  
searching for the other 3  Moniz Machado males in the Boston area in late 
1880's.  

 I'm a bit hesitant  to posting all this,  knowing  it's not exactly what 
you're looking for, however, I'm learning that even when I feel a bit silly 
posting,  I've had replies come back that were just what I was looking for.

Good luck in your search,

Maria Elena
a
P. S. Shirley:  Wow, your grandfather was also a Domingos.  In one of the 
certificates I noticed the priest wrote down Dominic (and said he was from 
Italy.!)


On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 2:29 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Shirley/Sam:
I AM a SOARES so if either of you are connected in some way to ANA FRANCISCA 
PERPETUA SILVA (mother to MANUEL MACHADO SOARES, my grandfather from Vila das 
Lajes, do Pico) and her parents of ANTONIO MONIZ (1808-1853) and ROSA ISABEL 
PERPETUAL (1806-1881), let me know.
Gordon Soares

-- Original message -- 
From: "Shirley Allegre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

Hi Sam:  I am really supposed to be a SOARES not an ALLEGRE.  My husband's 
grandfather came to the U.S. as Domingos SOARES.  He died as Dominic Allegre.  
His father was Antonio SOARES.  They were from Rosais, Sao Jorge, Azores.
When my father and his brothers were in grammar school they used different 
surnames.  My father once told me that his name was really Louis Cambra 
Rebello.  I asked him what happened to Rebello.  He said it was too long so he 
dropped Rebello.
Shirley
- Original Message - 
From: Sam Koester 
To: Azores@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 9:29 AM
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima


Lisa, Cheri and all;  Just a note as to how names changed.  

Up to a certain point in time I had always thought my surname was Coelho from 
Santa Maria, Azores Islands.  At least that's what my grandmother and my father 
used as a surname.  Then as a young adult I made a visit to Lisbon, Portugal.  
On my return I said to my dad, I didn't know our surname was as common in 
Portugal as Smith and Jones is here.  Coelho was on so many shops.  Dad said, 
"Well, you know Coelho isn't really our surname.  It's really Soares."  That 
was the first I'd heard of it.  Dad didn't really know the circumstances of the 
name change.  

In researching the records, it seems my grandfather went by the name of Jose 
Coelho Soares and on his  ships manifest on immigration he lists his father as 
Cordeiro.  How Coelho Soares and Cordeiro all tie together I don't know as I 
haven't been able to read the Santa Maria records well enough to get farther 
back in my research yet.  

So yes, Lisa, all daughters could be named Maria something or other and they 
would be called by that something or other name and records could be under the 
Maria name or the other name or a devotional name.  Parents often gave a second 
son or daughter the name of a deceased son or daughter.  Siblings could and 
often did have different s

[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[Maria Lima]

Hi Gordon:

I notice you are researching Moniz and Machado. I  think I read on a
Portuguese website that Moniz Machado is a name that is usually  linked and
goes way back to the Moors. I noticed my husband's grandfather who became a
dentist back in Boston in 1912, always signed his  full name as Domingos
Moniz Machado on every document we've seen of his.His brother Clement,
on the other hand, when he was naturalized,  changed his name to Marshall
and just used the initial  Clement *M.* Marshall.  It's as though the middle
name didn't matter as much.  (I'm guessing).

I've also come across the name Soares in my husband's mother's little
address book. There's correspondence from Antonio S. Soares who lived in
San Jose, CA.  I've also seen the Soares name as witnesses on some of our
ancestors birth certificates; all  pieces to the puzzle that haven't fit in
yet.  I also have an obituary for a Manuel Machado in Boston. but I can't
tie him in to the family yet although I know there is a connection.

The ancestor with the Moniz Machado name is Domingos and he had 4 brothers
and one sister.  The only brother I know is the one I mentioned, Clem.
Still  searching for the other 3  Moniz Machado males in the Boston area in
late 1880's.

 I'm a bit hesitant  to posting all this,  knowing  it's not exactly what
you're looking for, however, I'm learning that even when I feel a bit silly
posting,  I've had replies come back that were just what I was looking for.

Good luck in your search,

Maria Elena
a
P. S. Shirley:  Wow, your grandfather was also a* Domingos*.  In one of the
certificates I noticed the priest wrote down Dominic (and said he was from
Italy.!)

On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 2:29 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Shirley/Sam:
> I AM a SOARES so if either of you are connected in some way to ANA
> FRANCISCA PERPETUA SILVA (mother to MANUEL MACHADO SOARES, my grandfather
> from Vila das Lajes, do Pico) and her parents of ANTONIO MONIZ (1808-1853)
> and ROSA ISABEL PERPETUAL (1806-1881), let me know.
> Gordon Soares
>
>
> -- Original message --
> From: "Shirley Allegre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Hi Sam:  I am really supposed to be a SOARES not an ALLEGRE.  My husband's
> grandfather came to the U.S. as Domingos SOARES.  He died as Dominic
> Allegre.  His father was Antonio SOARES.  They were from Rosais, Sao Jorge,
> Azores.
> When my father and his brothers were in grammar school they used different
> surnames.  My father once told me that his name was really Louis Cambra
> Rebello.  I asked him what happened to Rebello.  He said it was too long so
> he dropped Rebello.
> Shirley
>
> ----- Original Message -
> *From:* Sam Koester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *To:* Azores@googlegroups.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 23, 2008 9:29 AM
> *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima
>
>  Lisa, Cheri and all;  Just a note as to how names changed.
>
>
>
> Up to a certain point in time I had always thought my surname was Coelho
> from Santa Maria, Azores Islands.  At least that's what my grandmother and
> my father used as a surname.  Then as a young adult I made a visit to
> Lisbon, Portugal.  On my return I said to my dad, I didn't know our surname
> was as common in Portugal as Smith and Jones is here.  Coelho was on so many
> shops.  Dad said, "Well, you know Coelho isn't really our surname.  It's
> really Soares."  That was the first I'd heard of it.  Dad didn't really know
> the circumstances of the name change.
>
>
>
> In researching the records, it seems my grandfather went by the name of
> Jose Coelho Soares and on his  ships manifest on immigration he lists his
> father as Cordeiro.  How Coelho Soares and Cordeiro all tie together I don't
> know as I haven't been able to read the Santa Maria records well enough to
> get farther back in my research yet.
>
>
>
> So yes, Lisa, all daughters could be named Maria something or other and
> they would be called by that something or other name and records could be
> under the Maria name or the other name or a devotional name.  Parents often
> gave a second son or daughter the name of a deceased son or daughter.
>  Siblings could and often did have different surnames and surnames changed
> with time.  Oh yes, and cousins married cousins too.  You have to read those
> records very carefully for these and many other twists.  This is such a fun
> hobby we have!  J  Sam in CA
>
> Researching:  *Soares, Coelho, Cordeiro, Tavares do Rego* in Santa Maria,
> *Faria*, *Catherina* in Faial and *Fraga*, island unknown.
>
>
>
> *From:* Azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On
>

[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[Sam Koester]

Lisa, Cheri and all;  Just a note as to how names changed.  

 

Up to a certain point in time I had always thought my surname was Coelho
from Santa Maria, Azores Islands.  At least that's what my grandmother and
my father used as a surname.  Then as a young adult I made a visit to
Lisbon, Portugal.  On my return I said to my dad, I didn't know our surname
was as common in Portugal as Smith and Jones is here.  Coelho was on so many
shops.  Dad said, "Well, you know Coelho isn't really our surname.  It's
really Soares."  That was the first I'd heard of it.  Dad didn't really know
the circumstances of the name change.  

 

In researching the records, it seems my grandfather went by the name of Jose
Coelho Soares and on his  ships manifest on immigration he lists his father
as Cordeiro.  How Coelho Soares and Cordeiro all tie together I don't know
as I haven't been able to read the Santa Maria records well enough to get
farther back in my research yet.  

 

So yes, Lisa, all daughters could be named Maria something or other and they
would be called by that something or other name and records could be under
the Maria name or the other name or a devotional name.  Parents often gave a
second son or daughter the name of a deceased son or daughter.  Siblings
could and often did have different surnames and surnames changed with time.
Oh yes, and cousins married cousins too.  You have to read those records
very carefully for these and many other twists.  This is such a fun hobby we
have!  J  Sam in CA

Researching:  Soares, Coelho, Cordeiro, Tavares do Rego in Santa Maria,
Faria, Catherina in Faial and Fraga, island unknown.

 

From: Azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Cheri Mello
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:10 PM
To: Azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

 

Lisa,

Some of our grandparents loved to keep the kiddies mesmerized with a few
embellished stories.

To see if it is true, you will have to trace all lines back.  Not the
royalty forward.  One of the people who are into the history will chime in
here, but the king stuff stopped after a certain year.  Now they have
presidents or prime ministers, I don't remember which.  But to take someone,
such as one of the early kings from the year 1143 and try to find ALL
descendants (and pray there's not missing records) and trace it from the
continent to the Azores and probably Madeira (and maybe Angola and other
Portuguese territories of the time) and across the Atlantic to you, will
probably take a lifetime and a half.  You will probably be diagnosed with
migraine headaches, too. LOL

I did find a brief history of Portuguese monarchs on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Portuguese_monarchs

You will also find as you do more and more research that your de Lima line
will turn into something else.  I'm not really a Mello.  I'm a Jacome.

Cheri
>From a whole bunch of peasants, hard working laborers, housewives, and one
Knight of Santiago.




--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Follow the 
confirmation directions when they arrive.
For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
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Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will 
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[Sam Koester]

Gordon;  I would dearly love to make a connection but; so far, my Soares
Coelho line is from Santa Maria.  BTW, does anyone know what the English
translation of Soares is.  I know Coelho is rabbit.  Thanks, Sam in CA

 

From: Azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 12:29 PM
To: Azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

 

Shirley/Sam:

I AM a SOARES so if either of you are connected in some way to ANA FRANCISCA
PERPETUA SILVA (mother to MANUEL MACHADO SOARES, my grandfather from Vila
das Lajes, do Pico) and her parents of ANTONIO MONIZ (1808-1853) and ROSA
ISABEL PERPETUAL (1806-1881), let me know.

Gordon Soares

 

-- Original message -- 
From: "Shirley Allegre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

Hi Sam:  I am really supposed to be a SOARES not an ALLEGRE.  My husband's
grandfather came to the U.S. as Domingos SOARES.  He died as Dominic
Allegre.  His father was Antonio SOARES.  They were from Rosais, Sao Jorge,
Azores.

When my father and his brothers were in grammar school they used different
surnames.  My father once told me that his name was really Louis Cambra
Rebello.  I asked him what happened to Rebello.  He said it was too long so
he dropped Rebello.

Shirley

- Original Message - 

From: Sam Koester <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  

To: Azores@googlegroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 9:29 AM

Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

 

Lisa, Cheri and all;  Just a note as to how names changed.  

 

Up to a certain point in time I had always thought my surname was Coelho
from Santa Maria, Azores Islands.  At least that's what my grandmother and
my father used as a surname.  Then as a young adult I made a visit to
Lisbon, Portugal.  On my return I said to my dad, I didn't know our surname
was as common in Portugal as Smith and Jones is here.  Coelho was on so many
shops.  Dad said, "Well, you know Coelho isn't really our surname.  It's
really Soares."  That was the first I'd heard of it.  Dad didn't really know
the circumstances of the name change.  

 

In researching the records, it seems my grandfather went by the name of Jose
Coelho Soares and on his  ships manifest on immigration he lists his father
as Cordeiro.  How Coelho Soares and Cordeiro all tie together I don't know
as I haven't been able to read the Santa Maria records well enough to get
farther back in my research yet.  

 

So yes, Lisa, all daughters could be named Maria something or other and they
would be called by that something or other name and records could be under
the Maria name or the other name or a devotional name.  Parents often gave a
second son or daughter the name of a deceased son or daughter.  Siblings
could and often did have different surnames and surnames changed with time.
Oh yes, and cousins married cousins too.  You have to read those records
very carefully for these and many other twists.  This is such a fun hobby we
have!  J  Sam in CA

Researching:  Soares, Coelho, Cordeiro, Tavares do Rego in Santa Maria,
Faria, Catherina in Faial and Fraga, island unknown.

 

From: Azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Cheri Mello
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:10 PM
To: Azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

 

Lisa,

Some of our grandparents loved to keep the kiddies mesmerized with a few
embellished stories.

To see if it is true, you will have to trace all lines back.  Not the
royalty forward.  One of the people who are into the history will chime in
here, but the king stuff stopped after a certain year.  Now they have
presidents or prime ministers, I don't remember which.  But to take someone,
such as one of the early kings from the year 1143 and try to find ALL
descendants (and pray there's not missing records) and trace it from the
continent to the Azores and probably Madeira (and maybe Angola and other
Portuguese territories of the time) and across the Atlantic to you, will
probably take a lifetime and a half.  You will probably be diagnosed with
migraine headaches, too. LOL

I did find a brief history of Portuguese monarchs on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipe <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Portuguese_monarchs>
dia.org/wiki/List_of_Portuguese_monarchs

You will also find as you do more and more research that your de Lima line
will turn into something else.  I'm not really a Mello.  I'm a Jacome.

Cheri
>From a whole bunch of peasants, hard working laborers, housewives, and one
Knight of Santiago.

 

http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  
Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will 
take you to "Edit my membership."
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[gs311]

Shirley/Sam:
I AM a SOARES so if either of you are connected in some way to ANA FRANCISCA 
PERPETUA SILVA (mother to MANUEL MACHADO SOARES, my grandfather from Vila das 
Lajes, do Pico) and her parents of ANTONIO MONIZ (1808-1853) and ROSA ISABEL 
PERPETUAL (1806-1881), let me know.
Gordon Soares

-- Original message -- 
From: "Shirley Allegre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

Hi Sam:  I am really supposed to be a SOARES not an ALLEGRE.  My husband's 
grandfather came to the U.S. as Domingos SOARES.  He died as Dominic Allegre.  
His father was Antonio SOARES.  They were from Rosais, Sao Jorge, Azores.
When my father and his brothers were in grammar school they used different 
surnames.  My father once told me that his name was really Louis Cambra 
Rebello.  I asked him what happened to Rebello.  He said it was too long so he 
dropped Rebello.
Shirley
- Original Message - 
From: Sam Koester 
To: Azores@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 9:29 AM
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima


Lisa, Cheri and all;  Just a note as to how names changed.  
 
Up to a certain point in time I had always thought my surname was Coelho from 
Santa Maria, Azores Islands.  At least that’s what my grandmother and my father 
used as a surname.  Then as a young adult I made a visit to Lisbon, Portugal.  
On my return I said to my dad, I didn’t know our surname was as common in 
Portugal as Smith and Jones is here.  Coelho was on so many shops.  Dad said, 
“Well, you know Coelho isn’t really our surname.  It’s really Soares.”  That 
was the first I’d heard of it.  Dad didn’t really know the circumstances of the 
name change.  
 
In researching the records, it seems my grandfather went by the name of Jose 
Coelho Soares and on his  ships manifest on immigration he lists his father as 
Cordeiro.  How Coelho Soares and Cordeiro all tie together I don’t know as I 
haven’t been able to read the Santa Maria records well enough to get farther 
back in my research yet.  
 
So yes, Lisa, all daughters could be named Maria something or other and they 
would be called by that something or other name and records could be under the 
Maria name or the other name or a devotional name.  Parents often gave a second 
son or daughter the name of a deceased son or daughter.  Siblings could and 
often did have different surnames and surnames changed with time.  Oh yes, and 
cousins married cousins too.  You have to read those records very carefully for 
these and many other twists.  This is such a fun hobby we have!  J  Sam in CA
Researching:  Soares, Coelho, Cordeiro, Tavares do Rego in Santa Maria, Faria, 
Catherina in Faial and Fraga, island unknown.
 
From: Azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cheri Mello
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:10 PM
To: Azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima
 
Lisa,

Some of our grandparents loved to keep the kiddies mesmerized with a few 
embellished stories.

To see if it is true, you will have to trace all lines back.  Not the royalty 
forward.  One of the people who are into the history will chime in here, but 
the king stuff stopped after a certain year.  Now they have presidents or prime 
ministers, I don't remember which.  But to take someone, such as one of the 
early kings from the year 1143 and try to find ALL descendants (and pray 
there's not missing records) and trace it from the continent to the Azores and 
probably Madeira (and maybe Angola and other Portuguese territories of the 
time) and across the Atlantic to you, will probably take a lifetime and a half. 
 You will probably be diagnosed with migraine headaches, too. LOL

I did find a brief history of Portuguese monarchs on Wikipedia: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Portuguese_monarchs

You will also find as you do more and more research that your de Lima line will 
turn into something else.  I'm not really a Mello.  I'm a Jacome.

Cheri
>From a whole bunch of peasants, hard working laborers, housewives, and one 
>Knight of Santiago.



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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[Shirley Allegre]

Hi Sam:  I am really supposed to be a SOARES not an ALLEGRE.  My husband's 
grandfather came to the U.S. as Domingos SOARES.  He died as Dominic Allegre.  
His father was Antonio SOARES.  They were from Rosais, Sao Jorge, Azores.
When my father and his brothers were in grammar school they used different 
surnames.  My father once told me that his name was really Louis Cambra 
Rebello.  I asked him what happened to Rebello.  He said it was too long so he 
dropped Rebello.
Shirley
  - Original Message - 
  From: Sam Koester 
  To: Azores@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 9:29 AM
  Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima


  Lisa, Cheri and all;  Just a note as to how names changed.  

   

  Up to a certain point in time I had always thought my surname was Coelho from 
Santa Maria, Azores Islands.  At least that's what my grandmother and my father 
used as a surname.  Then as a young adult I made a visit to Lisbon, Portugal.  
On my return I said to my dad, I didn't know our surname was as common in 
Portugal as Smith and Jones is here.  Coelho was on so many shops.  Dad said, 
"Well, you know Coelho isn't really our surname.  It's really Soares."  That 
was the first I'd heard of it.  Dad didn't really know the circumstances of the 
name change.  

   

  In researching the records, it seems my grandfather went by the name of Jose 
Coelho Soares and on his  ships manifest on immigration he lists his father as 
Cordeiro.  How Coelho Soares and Cordeiro all tie together I don't know as I 
haven't been able to read the Santa Maria records well enough to get farther 
back in my research yet.  

   

  So yes, Lisa, all daughters could be named Maria something or other and they 
would be called by that something or other name and records could be under the 
Maria name or the other name or a devotional name.  Parents often gave a second 
son or daughter the name of a deceased son or daughter.  Siblings could and 
often did have different surnames and surnames changed with time.  Oh yes, and 
cousins married cousins too.  You have to read those records very carefully for 
these and many other twists.  This is such a fun hobby we have!  J  Sam in CA

  Researching:  Soares, Coelho, Cordeiro, Tavares do Rego in Santa Maria, 
Faria, Catherina in Faial and Fraga, island unknown.

   

  From: Azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cheri 
Mello
  Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:10 PM
  To: Azores@googlegroups.com
  Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

   

  Lisa,

  Some of our grandparents loved to keep the kiddies mesmerized with a few 
embellished stories.

  To see if it is true, you will have to trace all lines back.  Not the royalty 
forward.  One of the people who are into the history will chime in here, but 
the king stuff stopped after a certain year.  Now they have presidents or prime 
ministers, I don't remember which.  But to take someone, such as one of the 
early kings from the year 1143 and try to find ALL descendants (and pray 
there's not missing records) and trace it from the continent to the Azores and 
probably Madeira (and maybe Angola and other Portuguese territories of the 
time) and across the Atlantic to you, will probably take a lifetime and a half. 
 You will probably be diagnosed with migraine headaches, too. LOL

  I did find a brief history of Portuguese monarchs on Wikipedia: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Portuguese_monarchs

  You will also find as you do more and more research that your de Lima line 
will turn into something else.  I'm not really a Mello.  I'm a Jacome.

  Cheri
  From a whole bunch of peasants, hard working laborers, housewives, and one 
Knight of Santiago.





  

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima

[Shirley Allegre]

You are talking about my ancestors.  Thanks for the info.
Shirley
  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Azores@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 9:15 AM
  Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: question on De Lima


  In a message dated 8/23/2008 11:34:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] writes: 

I knew you historians would come through!

Now that you mention it...there were several email exchanges between 
Shirley, Richard Matera, John Roias, and I don't know who else from the Ponta 
Garca research group.  They were about the Count of Benaventes.  Hey Shirley 
(Allegre), am I related to this count?

John, I do remember when I met you a few years ago that you helped 
translate a page out of Rodrigo Rodrigues.  The man had the alcunha of "O 
Congro" and the children of the wife (or cousins of the wife?) were contesting 
the will because she was mentally ill or something like that.  I'm blanking on 
her name.  I don't know that they were royal, but perhaps rather well-to-do.  I 
have your whole translation here, but I gotta run as we have a festa up north.


  Dear Cheri:

  Enjoy the "festa"! If you descend from Gaspar Manuel, married to Clara 
Afonso, as I seem to recall, then, according to many Micaelense 
historians/genealogists, you can  trace your genealogy back to D. Dinis (son of 
Afonso III) and his wife Isabel of Aragon (known to the rest of the world as 
St. Elizabeth of Portugal, or  the "Rainha Santa Isabel.")

  1 - João Afonso, das Grotas Fundas, married Isabel Gonçalves.

  2 -  João Afonso, o Velho,  of Faial da Terra, was married before 1511 to 
Catarina Manuel, 

  3 - Gaspar Manuel, de Vila Franca, married Clara Afonso.

  4 - Gaspar Manuel de Pimentel, married Ana Jácome Raposo, 

  5 - Ana Jácome Raposo, married Bartolomeu 

  6 - Ana Jácome Raposo, married António Correia Leitão 

  7 - Domingos Raposo Correia, married Maria de Paiva, 
  8 - Susana Rebelo Pimentel, married João do Rego, 

  9 - Cipriano do Rego, married Antónia Barbosa, 

  

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