Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[Margaret Vicente]

I'll keep those names in mind whenever I search through that Parish.  Have
you considered that Estrela may be a 'tag' name.  In other words, a
grandmother may have been called Estrela or Maria da Estrela while the
husband may be "Sousa" ?



On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:17 PM, Herb  wrote:

> As best as I have been able to determine Margaret, my exposto Jose Sousa
> Silva born 1871-1872 in NS Estrela Ribeira Grande, was probably the son of
> an Antonio Sousa Estrela and Maria Rosa. I have not been able to learn who
> raised him or who the parents of Antonio Sousa Estela were. I have poured
> over hundreds of records. The answer may be right in front of me but I
> don't see it.
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[Herb]

As best as I have been able to determine Margaret, my exposto Jose Sousa Silva 
born 1871-1872 in NS Estrela Ribeira Grande, was probably the son of an Antonio 
Sousa Estrela and Maria Rosa. I have not been able to learn who raised him or 
who the parents of Antonio Sousa Estela were. I have poured over hundreds of 
records. The answer may be right in front of me but I don't see it.

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[Margaret Vicente]

Indeed, Herb! Too similar, the other Antonio was of incognito parents but
there may be a correlation here.  If a Silva Carnario family was raising
these kids they may have taken on the surname.  Were you able to confirm
who it was that nursed and raised your ancestor?


On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 5:29 PM, Herb  wrote:

> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-
> RG-ESTRELA-B-1844-1846/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-B-1844-1846_item1/P143.html
>
> Margaret all this talk about Antonio Silva Canario reminds me of the one
> in the URL above. He was the padrinho to all of my exposto great
> grandfather's kids.
>
> Herb
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[Herb]

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-B-1844-1846/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-B-1844-1846_item1/P143.html

Margaret all this talk about Antonio Silva Canario reminds me of the one in the 
URL above. He was the padrinho to all of my exposto great grandfather's kids.

Herb 

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

Thanks JR, that should close the book on this one. I am glad Bill found those 
hospital records in Conceicao. I didn’t realize they were there.

Rick

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of JR
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 10:01 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

 

Obito for Florinda Candida, first wife of Jose Costa Pragana:

 

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-O-1870-1879/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-O-1870-1879_item1/P178.html

 

Record - 221, Florinda Candida, died Oct 25, 1873 in RGE, at 52 years old, 
married to Jose da Costa Pregana

 

JR


On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 9:41:02 PM UTC-4, JR wrote:

As I suspected, the priest made an error and should have indicated filha 
natural de Helena Rosa and Pai Incognito, because her spouse Antonio had died 
four years earlier. Or he recorded the record that way purposely. Who knows. 
But when Emilia married, as already noted, no father was mentioned; nor did the 
priest state it was father Incognito, just "filha natural."

 

JR

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 7:36:50 PM UTC-4, bsei...@gmail.com wrote:

You're right; I hadn't made that connection to the marriage you posted earlier. 
 A certificate of the obito was made 18 Jan 1876, probably to show her first 
marriage dissolved so she could marry 6 days later on the 24th.

 

Bill

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 3:51:12 PM UTC-7, Richard Francis Pimentel wrote:

Bill that is the death record the margin note gives the date Helena remarried 
18 Jan 1898. Thank you. 

 

Rick

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
bsei...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 4:47 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

 

I noticed that the caption for the Conceição book said "Obitos do Hospital" so 
I took a look.  I believe I found that Antonio died 27 Dec 1869.  Record is 
bottom left.

 

 
<http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876_item1/P66.html>
 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876_item1/P66.html

Bill Seidler

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 1:39:27 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote:

Bill, is right I didn't do the math. It's not age but as Rick says, the record 
number 35.

 

Good catch Bill :)

 

Thanks

 

 

 

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel <rickre...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

Hi Bill ,

 

The number refers to the entry number of the Obito book for the year 1924.

 

Rick

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
bsei...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 4:05 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

 

I'm not sure what the margin numbers mean on Emilia's baptism, but the 35 
wouldn't be her age in 1924.  Wouldn't a child born in 1873 that married in 
1895 at 22 years old be 51 years old in Sep 1924. 

 

Bill Seidler

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[JR]

Obito for Florinda Candida, first wife of Jose Costa Pragana:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-O-1870-1879/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-O-1870-1879_item1/P178.html

Record - 221, Florinda Candida, died Oct 25, 1873 in RGE, at 52 years old, 
married to Jose da Costa Pregana

JR

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 9:41:02 PM UTC-4, JR wrote:
>
> As I suspected, the priest made an error and should have indicated filha 
> natural de Helena Rosa and Pai Incognito, because her spouse Antonio had 
> died four years earlier. Or he recorded the record that way purposely. Who 
> knows. But when Emilia married, as already noted, no father was mentioned; 
> nor did the priest state it was father Incognito, just "filha natural."
>
> JR
>
> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 7:36:50 PM UTC-4, bsei...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> You're right; I hadn't made that connection to the marriage you posted 
>> earlier.  A certificate of the obito was made 18 Jan 1876, probably to show 
>> her first marriage dissolved so she could marry 6 days later on the 24th.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 3:51:12 PM UTC-7, Richard Francis Pimentel 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> *Bill that is the death record the margin note gives the date Helena 
>>> remarried 18 Jan 1898. Thank you. *
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *Rick*
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] *On 
>>> Behalf Of *bsei...@gmail.com
>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 4:47 PM
>>> *To:* Azores Genealogy
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao 
>>> Miguel 1873
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> I noticed that the caption for the Conceição book said "Obitos do 
>>> Hospital" so I took a look.  I believe I found that Antonio died 27 Dec 
>>> 1869.  Record is bottom left.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876_item1/P66.html
>>>
>>> Bill Seidler
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 1:39:27 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill, is right I didn't do the math. It's not age but as Rick says, the 
>>> record number 35.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Good catch Bill :)
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
>>> rickre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> *Hi Bill ,*
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *The number refers to the entry number of the Obito book for the year 
>>> 1924.*
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *Rick*
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] *On 
>>> Behalf Of *bsei...@gmail.com
>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 4:05 PM
>>> *To:* Azores Genealogy
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao 
>>> Miguel 1873
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what the margin numbers mean on Emilia's baptism, but the 
>>> 35 wouldn't be her age in 1924.  Wouldn't a child born in 1873 that married 
>>> in 1895 at 22 years old be 51 years old in Sep 1924. 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Bill Seidler
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
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>>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> Margaret M Vicente
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>
>>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[JR]

As I suspected, the priest made an error and should have indicated filha 
natural de Helena Rosa and Pai Incognito, because her spouse Antonio had 
died four years earlier. Or he recorded the record that way purposely. Who 
knows. But when Emilia married, as already noted, no father was mentioned; 
nor did the priest state it was father Incognito, just "filha natural."

JR

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 7:36:50 PM UTC-4, bsei...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> You're right; I hadn't made that connection to the marriage you posted 
> earlier.  A certificate of the obito was made 18 Jan 1876, probably to show 
> her first marriage dissolved so she could marry 6 days later on the 24th.
>
> Bill
>
> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 3:51:12 PM UTC-7, Richard Francis Pimentel 
> wrote:
>
>> *Bill that is the death record the margin note gives the date Helena 
>> remarried 18 Jan 1898. Thank you. *
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Rick*
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] *On 
>> Behalf Of *bsei...@gmail.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 4:47 PM
>> *To:* Azores Genealogy
>> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao 
>> Miguel 1873
>>
>>  
>>
>> I noticed that the caption for the Conceição book said "Obitos do 
>> Hospital" so I took a look.  I believe I found that Antonio died 27 Dec 
>> 1869.  Record is bottom left.
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876_item1/P66.html
>>
>> Bill Seidler
>>
>> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 1:39:27 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote:
>>
>> Bill, is right I didn't do the math. It's not age but as Rick says, the 
>> record number 35.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Good catch Bill :)
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
>> rickre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> *Hi Bill ,*
>>
>>  
>>
>> *The number refers to the entry number of the Obito book for the year 
>> 1924.*
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Rick*
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] *On 
>> Behalf Of *bsei...@gmail.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 4:05 PM
>> *To:* Azores Genealogy
>> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao 
>> Miguel 1873
>>
>>  
>>
>> I'm not sure what the margin numbers mean on Emilia's baptism, but the 35 
>> wouldn't be her age in 1924.  Wouldn't a child born in 1873 that married in 
>> 1895 at 22 years old be 51 years old in Sep 1924. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Bill Seidler
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>
>> -- 
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>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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>> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Margaret M Vicente
>>
>> -- 
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>> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
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>>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[bsei2816]

You're right; I hadn't made that connection to the marriage you posted 
earlier.  A certificate of the obito was made 18 Jan 1876, probably to show 
her first marriage dissolved so she could marry 6 days later on the 24th.

Bill

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 3:51:12 PM UTC-7, Richard Francis Pimentel wrote:

> *Bill that is the death record the margin note gives the date Helena 
> remarried 18 Jan 1898. Thank you. *
>
>  
>
> *Rick*
>
>  
>
> *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> azo...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *bsei...@gmail.com 
> 
> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 4:47 PM
> *To:* Azores Genealogy
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao 
> Miguel 1873
>
>  
>
> I noticed that the caption for the Conceição book said "Obitos do 
> Hospital" so I took a look.  I believe I found that Antonio died 27 Dec 
> 1869.  Record is bottom left.
>
>  
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876_item1/P66.html
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 1:39:27 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote:
>
> Bill, is right I didn't do the math. It's not age but as Rick says, the 
> record number 35.
>
>  
>
> Good catch Bill :)
>
>  
>
> Thanks
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
> rickre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> *Hi Bill ,*
>
>  
>
> *The number refers to the entry number of the Obito book for the year 
> 1924.*
>
>  
>
> *Rick*
>
>  
>
> *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] *On 
> Behalf Of *bsei...@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 4:05 PM
> *To:* Azores Genealogy
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao 
> Miguel 1873
>
>  
>
> I'm not sure what the margin numbers mean on Emilia's baptism, but the 35 
> wouldn't be her age in 1924.  Wouldn't a child born in 1873 that married in 
> 1895 at 22 years old be 51 years old in Sep 1924. 
>
>  
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
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>
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> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>
>
>
>  
>
> -- 
>
> Margaret M Vicente
>
> -- 
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

Bill that is the death record the margin note gives the date Helena remarried 
18 Jan 1898. Thank you. 

 

Rick

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
bsei2...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 4:47 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

 

I noticed that the caption for the Conceição book said "Obitos do Hospital" so 
I took a look.  I believe I found that Antonio died 27 Dec 1869.  Record is 
bottom left.

 

 
<http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876_item1/P66.html>
 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876_item1/P66.html

Bill Seidler

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 1:39:27 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote:

Bill, is right I didn't do the math. It's not age but as Rick says, the record 
number 35.

 

Good catch Bill :)

 

Thanks

 

 

 

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel <rickre...@gmail.com 
 > wrote:

Hi Bill ,

 

The number refers to the entry number of the Obito book for the year 1924.

 

Rick

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com   [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com 
 ] On Behalf Of bsei...@gmail.com  
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 4:05 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

 

I'm not sure what the margin numbers mean on Emilia's baptism, but the 35 
wouldn't be her age in 1924.  Wouldn't a child born in 1873 that married in 
1895 at 22 years old be 51 years old in Sep 1924. 

 

Bill Seidler

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[bsei2816]

I noticed that the caption for the Conceição book said "Obitos do Hospital" 
so I took a look.  I believe I found that Antonio died 27 Dec 1869.  Record 
is bottom left.

*http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876_item1/P66.html*
 
<http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-O-1855-1876_item1/P66.html>
Bill Seidler

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 1:39:27 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote:

> Bill, is right I didn't do the math. It's not age but as Rick says, the 
> record number 35.
>
> Good catch Bill :)
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
> rickre...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>> *Hi Bill ,*
>>
>>  
>>
>> *The number refers to the entry number of the Obito book for the year 
>> 1924.*
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Rick*
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
>> azo...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *bsei...@gmail.com 
>> 
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 4:05 PM
>> *To:* Azores Genealogy
>> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao 
>> Miguel 1873
>>
>>  
>>
>> I'm not sure what the margin numbers mean on Emilia's baptism, but the 35 
>> wouldn't be her age in 1924.  Wouldn't a child born in 1873 that married in 
>> 1895 at 22 years old be 51 years old in Sep 1924. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Bill Seidler
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Margaret M Vicente
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[Margaret Vicente]

Bill, is right I didn't do the math. It's not age but as Rick says, the
record number 35.

Good catch Bill :)

Thanks



On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
rickredle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> *Hi Bill ,*
>
>
>
> *The number refers to the entry number of the Obito book for the year
> 1924.*
>
>
>
> *Rick*
>
>
>
> *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *bsei2...@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 4:05 PM
> *To:* Azores Genealogy
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao
> Miguel 1873
>
>
>
> I'm not sure what the margin numbers mean on Emilia's baptism, but the 35
> wouldn't be her age in 1924.  Wouldn't a child born in 1873 that married in
> 1895 at 22 years old be 51 years old in Sep 1924.
>
>
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>
> --
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> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>



-- 
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

Hi Bill ,

 

The number refers to the entry number of the Obito book for the year 1924.

 

Rick

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
bsei2...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 4:05 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

 

I'm not sure what the margin numbers mean on Emilia's baptism, but the 35 
wouldn't be her age in 1924.  Wouldn't a child born in 1873 that married in 
1895 at 22 years old be 51 years old in Sep 1924. 

 

Bill Seidler

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[bsei2816]

I'm not sure what the margin numbers mean on Emilia's baptism, but the 35 
wouldn't be her age in 1924.  Wouldn't a child born in 1873 that married in 
1895 at 22 years old be 51 years old in Sep 1924. 

Bill Seidler

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[Margaret Vicente]

Richard,

Here's Emilia's marriage record.  And, your answer, natural daughter of
Helena Helena Rosa, 22 years old. Left side # 11

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-C-1890-1899/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-C-1890-1899_item1/P86.html

Margaret

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
rickredle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> *Margaret, I think that would be and assumption. I have done extensive
> research in this parish and there is only one couple with these names and
> one other Helena in the parish that is clearly out of the entire time
> range. In 1876 when Helena remarries it clearly states she is the widow of
> Antonio da Silva Canario  See
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-C-1873-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-C-1873-1879_item1/P40.html
> <http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-C-1873-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-C-1873-1879_item1/P40.html>
> This record uses the name Helena de Jesus but this is just one name
> variation she used.*
>
>
>
> *Linda said that in the birth record of Emilia she is a widow at that
> time. That would be the word going from line 11 to 12. On the birth record
> of Emilia.   If I could find the obito of Antonio it would help but the
> record above says he died in the Hospital in Ribeira Grande. If I could
> find out when he died that may answer a few questions. *
>
>
>
> *As with all things we may never know the answer.*
>
> *Rick*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Margaret Vicente
> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 12:44 PM
>
> *To:* azores
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao
> Miguel 1873
>
>
>
> Richard, the birth of Emilia takes place in 1873.  That translates to a 19
> year gap.  You may very well be looking at two different people for this
> couple is NOT legally married.
>
>
>
> Further to this the record does not state 'illegitimate" it says natural.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 12:34 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
> rickredle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> *OK Margaret but how do you explain the fact that they were married? Their
> marriage took place in 1854 and they had three children at the time.*
>
> *rick*
>
>
>
> *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Margaret Vicente
> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 12:23 PM
> *To:* azores
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao
> Miguel 1873
>
>
>
> Hi Richard and JR.
>
> The record is intent clear in that it states the natural father Antonio da
> Silva Canario and the mother Helena Rosa, widow, naturals, parishioners
> residents of the parish.
>
> it then says that the child Emilia Paternal and Maternal Grandparents are
> incognitos.  This means both of Emilia's parents, were foundlings and of
> unknown parents.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Margaret
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
> rfrancispimen...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> *JR and I are both scratching our heads on this record We need some other
> native speakers to take a look at this record and the wording and perhaps
> explain what the writer was trying to say. *
>
> *A few facts about it are Antonio da Silva Canario and Helena Rosa married
> in 1854 and have 3 children at the time of this record (the birth of
> Emilia) Antonio is 66 years old and Helena is about 42.  Antonio is named
> as having died in the Hospital in Ribeira Grande in 1876 when Helena
> remarries. *
>
> *http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879_item1/P87.html
> <http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879_item1/P87.html>
> Emilia on the right side *
>
> *The part in question is the priest writes “ filha legitima digo fila
> natural Antonio da Silva campaneo e  de Helena Rosa” then there is a few
> lines before he writes “nita paterna”  I can make out part of the line I
> think is says that they are both married and residing in the freguesia but
> I do not completely understand it all.  *
>
> *In subsequent records Emilia she is named as father unknown. *
>
> *My feeling is that Emilia is the results of an adulterous affair and
> Antonio denied he was the father Helena denied having an  affair.  The
> priest could not determine who was telling the truth. *
>
>
>
> *Rick*
>
> *Richard Francis Pimentel*
>
> *Epping, NH *
>
> *Researching, Riberia Gr

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[Margaret Vicente]

I get it.  In that case you already have the background,  It rests the
possibility of an error on Emilia's birth record where the natural father
was misnamed.

The Santa Casa obit could be ordered if not on line and you could
approximate time of death, it would have to be around 1871-1872.  One other
option would be to find the obit for the 2nd husband's wife to see if he
was still married when Emilia was born.

The answer you are looking for lies with Emilia in my opinion.  The
marriage, or her death record would give you the parents names  The margin
note says she died at 35 years of age, Sep 14 1924.

Margaret



On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
rickredle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> *Margaret, I think that would be and assumption. I have done extensive
> research in this parish and there is only one couple with these names and
> one other Helena in the parish that is clearly out of the entire time
> range. In 1876 when Helena remarries it clearly states she is the widow of
> Antonio da Silva Canario  See
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-C-1873-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-C-1873-1879_item1/P40.html
> <http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-C-1873-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-C-1873-1879_item1/P40.html>
> This record uses the name Helena de Jesus but this is just one name
> variation she used.*
>
>
>
> *Linda said that in the birth record of Emilia she is a widow at that
> time. That would be the word going from line 11 to 12. On the birth record
> of Emilia.   If I could find the obito of Antonio it would help but the
> record above says he died in the Hospital in Ribeira Grande. If I could
> find out when he died that may answer a few questions. *
>
>
>
> *As with all things we may never know the answer.*
>
> *Rick*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Margaret Vicente
> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 12:44 PM
>
> *To:* azores
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao
> Miguel 1873
>
>
>
> Richard, the birth of Emilia takes place in 1873.  That translates to a 19
> year gap.  You may very well be looking at two different people for this
> couple is NOT legally married.
>
>
>
> Further to this the record does not state 'illegitimate" it says natural.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 12:34 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
> rickredle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> *OK Margaret but how do you explain the fact that they were married? Their
> marriage took place in 1854 and they had three children at the time.*
>
> *rick*
>
>
>
> *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Margaret Vicente
> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 12:23 PM
> *To:* azores
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao
> Miguel 1873
>
>
>
> Hi Richard and JR.
>
> The record is intent clear in that it states the natural father Antonio da
> Silva Canario and the mother Helena Rosa, widow, naturals, parishioners
> residents of the parish.
>
> it then says that the child Emilia Paternal and Maternal Grandparents are
> incognitos.  This means both of Emilia's parents, were foundlings and of
> unknown parents.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Margaret
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
> rfrancispimen...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> *JR and I are both scratching our heads on this record We need some other
> native speakers to take a look at this record and the wording and perhaps
> explain what the writer was trying to say. *
>
> *A few facts about it are Antonio da Silva Canario and Helena Rosa married
> in 1854 and have 3 children at the time of this record (the birth of
> Emilia) Antonio is 66 years old and Helena is about 42.  Antonio is named
> as having died in the Hospital in Ribeira Grande in 1876 when Helena
> remarries. *
>
> *http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879_item1/P87.html
> <http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879_item1/P87.html>
> Emilia on the right side *
>
> *The part in question is the priest writes “ filha legitima digo fila
> natural Antonio da Silva campaneo e  de Helena Rosa” then there is a few
> lines before he writes “nita paterna”  I can make out part of the line I
> think is says that they are both married and residing in the freguesia but
> I do not completely understand it all.  *
>
> *In subsequent records Emilia she is named as father unk

RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

Margaret, I think that would be and assumption. I have done extensive research 
in this parish and there is only one couple with these names and one other 
Helena in the parish that is clearly out of the entire time range. In 1876 when 
Helena remarries it clearly states she is the widow of Antonio da Silva Canario 
 See 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-C-1873-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-C-1873-1879_item1/P40.html
 This record uses the name Helena de Jesus but this is just one name variation 
she used.

 

Linda said that in the birth record of Emilia she is a widow at that time. That 
would be the word going from line 11 to 12. On the birth record of Emilia.   If 
I could find the obito of Antonio it would help but the record above says he 
died in the Hospital in Ribeira Grande. If I could find out when he died that 
may answer a few questions. 

 

As with all things we may never know the answer.

Rick

 

 

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Margaret Vicente
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 12:44 PM
To: azores
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

 

Richard, the birth of Emilia takes place in 1873.  That translates to a 19 year 
gap.  You may very well be looking at two different people for this couple is 
NOT legally married. 

 

Further to this the record does not state 'illegitimate" it says natural.  

 

 

 

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 12:34 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel 
<rickredle...@gmail.com> wrote:

OK Margaret but how do you explain the fact that they were married? Their 
marriage took place in 1854 and they had three children at the time.

rick

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Margaret Vicente
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 12:23 PM
To: azores
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

 

Hi Richard and JR. 

The record is intent clear in that it states the natural father Antonio da 
Silva Canario and the mother Helena Rosa, widow, naturals, parishioners 
residents of the parish. 

it then says that the child Emilia Paternal and Maternal Grandparents are 
incognitos.  This means both of Emilia's parents, were foundlings and of 
unknown parents. 

Hope this helps.

 

Margaret

 

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Richard Francis Pimentel 
<rfrancispimen...@comcast.net> wrote:

JR and I are both scratching our heads on this record We need some other native 
speakers to take a look at this record and the wording and perhaps explain what 
the writer was trying to say. 

A few facts about it are Antonio da Silva Canario and Helena Rosa married in 
1854 and have 3 children at the time of this record (the birth of Emilia) 
Antonio is 66 years old and Helena is about 42.  Antonio is named as having 
died in the Hospital in Ribeira Grande in 1876 when Helena remarries. 

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879_item1/P87.html
  Emilia on the right side 

The part in question is the priest writes “ filha legitima digo fila natural 
Antonio da Silva campaneo e  de Helena Rosa” then there is a few lines before 
he writes “nita paterna”  I can make out part of the line I think is says that 
they are both married and residing in the freguesia but I do not completely 
understand it all.  

In subsequent records Emilia she is named as father unknown. 

My feeling is that Emilia is the results of an adulterous affair and Antonio 
denied he was the father Helena denied having an  affair.  The priest could not 
determine who was telling the truth. 

 

Rick

Richard Francis Pimentel

Epping, NH 

Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and Ponta 
Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores

  

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[Margaret Vicente]

Richard, the birth of Emilia takes place in 1873.  That translates to a 19
year gap.  You may very well be looking at two different people for this
couple is NOT legally married.

Further to this the record does not state 'illegitimate" it says natural.



On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 12:34 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
rickredle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> *OK Margaret but how do you explain the fact that they were married? Their
> marriage took place in 1854 and they had three children at the time.*
>
> *rick*
>
>
>
> *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Margaret Vicente
> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 12:23 PM
> *To:* azores
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao
> Miguel 1873
>
>
>
> Hi Richard and JR.
>
>
>
> The record is intent clear in that it states the natural father Antonio da
> Silva Canario and the mother Helena Rosa, widow, naturals, parishioners
> residents of the parish.
>
>
>
> it then says that the child Emilia Paternal and Maternal Grandparents are
> incognitos.  This means both of Emilia's parents, were foundlings and of
> unknown parents.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Margaret
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
> rfrancispimen...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> *JR and I are both scratching our heads on this record We need some other
> native speakers to take a look at this record and the wording and perhaps
> explain what the writer was trying to say.*
>
>
>
> *A few facts about it are Antonio da Silva Canario and Helena Rosa married
> in 1854 and have 3 children at the time of this record (the birth of
> Emilia) Antonio is 66 years old and Helena is about 42.  Antonio is named
> as having died in the Hospital in Ribeira Grande in 1876 when Helena
> remarries.*
>
>
>
> *http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879_item1/P87.html
> <http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879_item1/P87.html>
> Emilia on the right side*
>
>
>
> *The part in question is the priest writes “ filha legitima digo fila
> natural Antonio da Silva campaneo e  de Helena Rosa” then there is a few
> lines before he writes “nita paterna”  I can make out part of the line I
> think is says that they are both married and residing in the freguesia but
> I do not completely understand it all. *
>
>
>
> *In subsequent records Emilia she is named as father unknown.*
>
>
>
> *My feeling is that Emilia is the results of an adulterous affair and
> Antonio denied he was the father Helena denied having an  affair.  The
> priest could not determine who was telling the truth. *
>
>
>
> *Rick*
>
> *Richard Francis Pimentel*
>
> *Epping, NH*
>
>
>
> *Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and
> Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores*
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Margaret M Vicente
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>
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> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>



-- 
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

OK Margaret but how do you explain the fact that they were married? Their 
marriage took place in 1854 and they had three children at the time.

rick

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Margaret Vicente
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 12:23 PM
To: azores
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

 

Hi Richard and JR.

 

The record is intent clear in that it states the natural father Antonio da 
Silva Canario and the mother Helena Rosa, widow, naturals, parishioners 
residents of the parish. 

 

it then says that the child Emilia Paternal and Maternal Grandparents are 
incognitos.  This means both of Emilia's parents, were foundlings and of 
unknown parents.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Margaret

 

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Richard Francis Pimentel 
<rfrancispimen...@comcast.net> wrote:

JR and I are both scratching our heads on this record We need some other native 
speakers to take a look at this record and the wording and perhaps explain what 
the writer was trying to say.

 

A few facts about it are Antonio da Silva Canario and Helena Rosa married in 
1854 and have 3 children at the time of this record (the birth of Emilia) 
Antonio is 66 years old and Helena is about 42.  Antonio is named as having 
died in the Hospital in Ribeira Grande in 1876 when Helena remarries.

 

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879_item1/P87.html
  Emilia on the right side

 

The part in question is the priest writes “ filha legitima digo fila natural 
Antonio da Silva campaneo e  de Helena Rosa” then there is a few lines before 
he writes “nita paterna”  I can make out part of the line I think is says that 
they are both married and residing in the freguesia but I do not completely 
understand it all. 

 

In subsequent records Emilia she is named as father unknown.

 

My feeling is that Emilia is the results of an adulterous affair and Antonio 
denied he was the father Helena denied having an  affair.  The priest could not 
determine who was telling the truth. 

 

Rick

Richard Francis Pimentel

Epping, NH

 

Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and Ponta 
Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores

 

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873

[Margaret Vicente]

Hi Richard and JR.

The record is intent clear in that it states the natural father Antonio da
Silva Canario and the mother Helena Rosa, widow, naturals, parishioners
residents of the parish.

it then says that the child Emilia Paternal and Maternal Grandparents are
incognitos.  This means both of Emilia's parents, were foundlings and of
unknown parents.

Hope this helps.

Margaret

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
rfrancispimen...@comcast.net> wrote:

> *JR and I are both scratching our heads on this record We need some other
> native speakers to take a look at this record and the wording and perhaps
> explain what the writer was trying to say.*
>
>
>
> *A few facts about it are Antonio da Silva Canario and Helena Rosa married
> in 1854 and have 3 children at the time of this record (the birth of
> Emilia) Antonio is 66 years old and Helena is about 42.  Antonio is named
> as having died in the Hospital in Ribeira Grande in 1876 when Helena
> remarries.*
>
>
>
> *http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879/SMG-RG-RIBEIRINHA-B-1871-1879_item1/P87.html
> 
> Emilia on the right side*
>
>
>
> *The part in question is the priest writes “ filha legitima digo fila
> natural Antonio da Silva campaneo e  de Helena Rosa” then there is a few
> lines before he writes “nita paterna”  I can make out part of the line I
> think is says that they are both married and residing in the freguesia but
> I do not completely understand it all. *
>
>
>
> *In subsequent records Emilia she is named as father unknown.*
>
>
>
> *My feeling is that Emilia is the results of an adulterous affair and
> Antonio denied he was the father Helena denied having an  affair.  The
> priest could not determine who was telling the truth. *
>
>
>
> *Rick*
>
> *Richard Francis Pimentel*
>
> *Epping, NH*
>
>
>
> *Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and
> Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores*
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>



-- 
Margaret M Vicente

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