Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?

2019-03-10 Thread Ângela Loura 
"incógnito" as in "unknown", "oculto" as in "unknown" or "hidden" depending
on the case.

A sábado, 9 de mar de 2019, 17:23, Cheri Mello 
escreveu:

> Sam,
>
> Those that grew up in the Azores or are more familiar with the history
> would have to chime in on how a child of an "adulterer" would be viewed
> over there.
>
> Cheri
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 8:56 AM 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Interesting how they recorded this stuff.  Cheri, or anyone, do you know
>> if there was a stigma attached to the child or to the parents for that
>> matter?  I found it somewhat surprising that in the record I found it
>> stated that the husband had been “away for over 300 days”   Certainly
>> leaves no doubt that the baby wasn’t his.  So many scenarios in my mind for
>> when/if the husband returns.  What happens to the baby?  Mom keeps it, it
>> goes in the roda, dad keeps it.  I did find one record where the mom wasn’t
>> listed, only the dad.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Cheri Mello 
>> *Sent: *Friday, March 8, 2019 12:15 PM
>> *To: *Azores Genealogy 
>> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?
>>
>>
>>
>> The "adulterer" term isn't used as in today's definition. Basically, one
>> (or both) parties were married. I have one record in my family where
>> Francisco was single, Maria was married to So-and-So. Francisco and Maria
>> had a baby. Francisco was listed as the adulterer. By today's definition,
>> Maria was the adultress and Francisco having relations with a married woman
>> isn't a nice thing, but I can't think of a "proper" word for that in the
>> English language. I know lots of name-calling terms for that, but I don't
>> think there's a proper word for a single man who has a relationship with a
>> married woman.
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 11:09 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca <
>> jessdebmendo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> While they both translate to hidden, as in refuse to name; oculto
>> definition includes not known.   Could that be the difference?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 9:31 AM Leonor Bertoni 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sam,
>>
>> I have wondered about all these terms as well. I have found that when the
>> priest says "adulterina" he usually also mentions a father. Someone once
>> told me that it meant that the baby was conceived before marriage or the
>> couple were not married at all.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 12:12, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
>> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Happy Friday morning everyone;
>>
>>
>>
>> As I’ve been extracting baptisms/births, I have noticed that the same
>> priest during the same time period will sometimes use Avo incognito and
>> other times use Avo occult and on occasion simply state that it is
>> “natural  de” and the mother’s name with no mention at all of the father.
>> On only one occasion, so far, has it been stated that the mother is
>> “adulterina” (may not have spelled that correctly)
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know why it is recorded in these various ways.  I understand
>> that if you are single you are not an “adulterine” but; other than that,
>> what are the differences?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for educating me,.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [image:
>> https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon>
>>
>> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?

2019-03-09 Thread Cheri Mello 
Sam,

Those that grew up in the Azores or are more familiar with the history
would have to chime in on how a child of an "adulterer" would be viewed
over there.

Cheri
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 8:56 AM 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Interesting how they recorded this stuff.  Cheri, or anyone, do you know
> if there was a stigma attached to the child or to the parents for that
> matter?  I found it somewhat surprising that in the record I found it
> stated that the husband had been “away for over 300 days”   Certainly
> leaves no doubt that the baby wasn’t his.  So many scenarios in my mind for
> when/if the husband returns.  What happens to the baby?  Mom keeps it, it
> goes in the roda, dad keeps it.  I did find one record where the mom wasn’t
> listed, only the dad.
>
>
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>
>
> *From: *Cheri Mello 
> *Sent: *Friday, March 8, 2019 12:15 PM
> *To: *Azores Genealogy 
> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?
>
>
>
> The "adulterer" term isn't used as in today's definition. Basically, one
> (or both) parties were married. I have one record in my family where
> Francisco was single, Maria was married to So-and-So. Francisco and Maria
> had a baby. Francisco was listed as the adulterer. By today's definition,
> Maria was the adultress and Francisco having relations with a married woman
> isn't a nice thing, but I can't think of a "proper" word for that in the
> English language. I know lots of name-calling terms for that, but I don't
> think there's a proper word for a single man who has a relationship with a
> married woman.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 11:09 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca <
> jessdebmendo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> While they both translate to hidden, as in refuse to name; oculto
> definition includes not known.   Could that be the difference?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 9:31 AM Leonor Bertoni 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Sam,
>
> I have wondered about all these terms as well. I have found that when the
> priest says "adulterina" he usually also mentions a father. Someone once
> told me that it meant that the baby was conceived before marriage or the
> couple were not married at all.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 12:12, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Happy Friday morning everyone;
>
>
>
> As I’ve been extracting baptisms/births, I have noticed that the same
> priest during the same time period will sometimes use Avo incognito and
> other times use Avo occult and on occasion simply state that it is
> “natural  de” and the mother’s name with no mention at all of the father.
> On only one occasion, so far, has it been stated that the mother is
> “adulterina” (may not have spelled that correctly)
>
>
>
> Does anyone know why it is recorded in these various ways.  I understand
> that if you are single you are not an “adulterine” but; other than that,
> what are the differences?
>
>
>
> Thanks for educating me,.
>
>
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>
>
>
>
> [image:
> https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?

2019-03-09 Thread 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
Yes, I notice that too, although I did also see some women born out of wedlock 
who did marry.  Perhaps, they were later legitimized and that changed their 
status?  

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)

From: nancy jean baptiste
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2019 10:05 AM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?

Sam, 

One thing I noticed while indexing the Sao Jorge obits is that so many women 
who had children out of marriage were daughters of women who also had children 
out of wedlock

Nancy Jean

From: 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2019 10:56 AM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference? 
 
Interesting how they recorded this stuff.  Cheri, or anyone, do you know if 
there was a stigma attached to the child or to the parents for that matter?  I 
found it somewhat surprising that in the record I found it stated that the 
husband had been “away for over 300 days”   Certainly leaves no doubt that the 
baby wasn’t his.  So many scenarios in my mind for when/if the husband returns. 
 What happens to the baby?  Mom keeps it, it goes in the roda, dad keeps it.  I 
did find one record where the mom wasn’t listed, only the dad.  
 
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 
From: Cheri Mello
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2019 12:15 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?
 
The "adulterer" term isn't used as in today's definition. Basically, one (or 
both) parties were married. I have one record in my family where Francisco was 
single, Maria was married to So-and-So. Francisco and Maria had a baby. 
Francisco was listed as the adulterer. By today's definition, Maria was the 
adultress and Francisco having relations with a married woman isn't a nice 
thing, but I can't think of a "proper" word for that in the English language. I 
know lots of name-calling terms for that, but I don't think there's a proper 
word for a single man who has a relationship with a married woman.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
 
 
On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 11:09 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca 
 wrote:
While they both translate to hidden, as in refuse to name; oculto definition 
includes not known.   Could that be the difference?
 
 
 
On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 9:31 AM Leonor Bertoni  wrote:
Hi Sam,
I have wondered about all these terms as well. I have found that when the 
priest says "adulterina" he usually also mentions a father. Someone once told 
me that it meant that the baby was conceived before marriage or the couple were 
not married at all.
 
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 12:12, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
 wrote:
Happy Friday morning everyone;
 
As I’ve been extracting baptisms/births, I have noticed that the same priest 
during the same time period will sometimes use Avo incognito and other times 
use Avo occult and on occasion simply state that it is “natural  de” and the 
mother’s name with no mention at all of the father.  On only one occasion, so 
far, has it been stated that the mother is “adulterina” (may not have spelled 
that correctly)
 
Does anyone know why it is recorded in these various ways.  I understand that 
if you are single you are not an “adulterine” but; other than that, what are 
the differences?
 
Thanks for educating me,.
 
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 
 

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?

2019-03-09 Thread nancy jean baptiste 
Sam,

One thing I noticed while indexing the Sao Jorge obits is that so many women 
who had children out of marriage were daughters of women who also had children 
out of wedlock

Nancy Jean

From: 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2019 10:56 AM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?


Interesting how they recorded this stuff.  Cheri, or anyone, do you know if 
there was a stigma attached to the child or to the parents for that matter?  I 
found it somewhat surprising that in the record I found it stated that the 
husband had been “away for over 300 days”   Certainly leaves no doubt that the 
baby wasn’t his.  So many scenarios in my mind for when/if the husband returns. 
 What happens to the baby?  Mom keeps it, it goes in the roda, dad keeps it.  I 
did find one record where the mom wasn’t listed, only the dad.



Sam (Mazatlán, MX)



From: Cheri Mello<mailto:gfsche...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2019 12:15 PM
To: Azores Genealogy<mailto:azores@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?



The "adulterer" term isn't used as in today's definition. Basically, one (or 
both) parties were married. I have one record in my family where Francisco was 
single, Maria was married to So-and-So. Francisco and Maria had a baby. 
Francisco was listed as the adulterer. By today's definition, Maria was the 
adultress and Francisco having relations with a married woman isn't a nice 
thing, but I can't think of a "proper" word for that in the English language. I 
know lots of name-calling terms for that, but I don't think there's a proper 
word for a single man who has a relationship with a married woman.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada





On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 11:09 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca 
mailto:jessdebmendo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

While they both translate to hidden, as in refuse to name; oculto definition 
includes not known.   Could that be the difference?







On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 9:31 AM Leonor Bertoni 
mailto:leonor.bert...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Sam,

I have wondered about all these terms as well. I have found that when the 
priest says "adulterina" he usually also mentions a father. Someone once told 
me that it meant that the baby was conceived before marriage or the couple were 
not married at all.



On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 12:12, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
mailto:azores@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Happy Friday morning everyone;



As I’ve been extracting baptisms/births, I have noticed that the same priest 
during the same time period will sometimes use Avo incognito and other times 
use Avo occult and on occasion simply state that it is “natural  de” and the 
mother’s name with no mention at all of the father.  On only one occasion, so 
far, has it been stated that the mother is “adulterina” (may not have spelled 
that correctly)



Does anyone know why it is recorded in these various ways.  I understand that 
if you are single you are not an “adulterine” but; other than that, what are 
the differences?



Thanks for educating me,.



Sam (Mazatlán, MX)





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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?

2019-03-09 Thread 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
Interesting how they recorded this stuff.  Cheri, or anyone, do you know if 
there was a stigma attached to the child or to the parents for that matter?  I 
found it somewhat surprising that in the record I found it stated that the 
husband had been “away for over 300 days”   Certainly leaves no doubt that the 
baby wasn’t his.  So many scenarios in my mind for when/if the husband returns. 
 What happens to the baby?  Mom keeps it, it goes in the roda, dad keeps it.  I 
did find one record where the mom wasn’t listed, only the dad.  

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)

From: Cheri Mello
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2019 12:15 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?

The "adulterer" term isn't used as in today's definition. Basically, one (or 
both) parties were married. I have one record in my family where Francisco was 
single, Maria was married to So-and-So. Francisco and Maria had a baby. 
Francisco was listed as the adulterer. By today's definition, Maria was the 
adultress and Francisco having relations with a married woman isn't a nice 
thing, but I can't think of a "proper" word for that in the English language. I 
know lots of name-calling terms for that, but I don't think there's a proper 
word for a single man who has a relationship with a married woman.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 11:09 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca 
 wrote:
While they both translate to hidden, as in refuse to name; oculto definition 
includes not known.   Could that be the difference?



On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 9:31 AM Leonor Bertoni  wrote:
Hi Sam,
I have wondered about all these terms as well. I have found that when the 
priest says "adulterina" he usually also mentions a father. Someone once told 
me that it meant that the baby was conceived before marriage or the couple were 
not married at all.

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 12:12, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
 wrote:
Happy Friday morning everyone;
 
As I’ve been extracting baptisms/births, I have noticed that the same priest 
during the same time period will sometimes use Avo incognito and other times 
use Avo occult and on occasion simply state that it is “natural  de” and the 
mother’s name with no mention at all of the father.  On only one occasion, so 
far, has it been stated that the mother is “adulterina” (may not have spelled 
that correctly)
 
Does anyone know why it is recorded in these various ways.  I understand that 
if you are single you are not an “adulterine” but; other than that, what are 
the differences?
 
Thanks for educating me,.
 
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 


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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?

2019-03-08 Thread Cheri Mello 
The "adulterer" term isn't used as in today's definition. Basically, one
(or both) parties were married. I have one record in my family where
Francisco was single, Maria was married to So-and-So. Francisco and Maria
had a baby. Francisco was listed as the adulterer. By today's definition,
Maria was the adultress and Francisco having relations with a married woman
isn't a nice thing, but I can't think of a "proper" word for that in the
English language. I know lots of name-calling terms for that, but I don't
think there's a proper word for a single man who has a relationship with a
married woman.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 11:09 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca <
jessdebmendo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> While they both translate to hidden, as in refuse to name; oculto
> definition includes not known.   Could that be the difference?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 9:31 AM Leonor Bertoni 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Sam,
>> I have wondered about all these terms as well. I have found that when the
>> priest says "adulterina" he usually also mentions a father. Someone once
>> told me that it meant that the baby was conceived before marriage or the
>> couple were not married at all.
>>
>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 12:12, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
>> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Happy Friday morning everyone;
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As I’ve been extracting baptisms/births, I have noticed that the same
>>> priest during the same time period will sometimes use Avo incognito and
>>> other times use Avo occult and on occasion simply state that it is
>>> “natural  de” and the mother’s name with no mention at all of the father.
>>> On only one occasion, so far, has it been stated that the mother is
>>> “adulterina” (may not have spelled that correctly)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone know why it is recorded in these various ways.  I understand
>>> that if you are single you are not an “adulterine” but; other than that,
>>> what are the differences?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for educating me,.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>  Virus-free.
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>> <#m_-3322470399855527942_m_4665026750750709863_m_5430085544783651279_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?

2019-03-08 Thread JesseAndDeborah Mendonca 
While they both translate to hidden, as in refuse to name; oculto
definition includes not known.   Could that be the difference?



On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 9:31 AM Leonor Bertoni 
wrote:

> Hi Sam,
> I have wondered about all these terms as well. I have found that when the
> priest says "adulterina" he usually also mentions a father. Someone once
> told me that it meant that the baby was conceived before marriage or the
> couple were not married at all.
>
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 12:12, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Happy Friday morning everyone;
>>
>>
>>
>> As I’ve been extracting baptisms/births, I have noticed that the same
>> priest during the same time period will sometimes use Avo incognito and
>> other times use Avo occult and on occasion simply state that it is
>> “natural  de” and the mother’s name with no mention at all of the father.
>> On only one occasion, so far, has it been stated that the mother is
>> “adulterina” (may not have spelled that correctly)
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know why it is recorded in these various ways.  I understand
>> that if you are single you are not an “adulterine” but; other than that,
>> what are the differences?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for educating me,.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>  Virus-free.
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> <#m_4665026750750709863_m_5430085544783651279_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?

2019-03-08 Thread Leonor Bertoni 
Sorry, should have said husband and not father but in your case, I don't
think the math supports the husband/father being the same. Do you mind
posting the link to that record?

Leonor

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 13:27, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Leonor;  In this case, no father was mentioned but; the husband’s name was
> listed as well as the fact that he had been away for over 300 days so, I
> think it truly means, “adulterer”, if I’m spelling that correctly.
>
>
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>
>
> *From: *Leonor Bertoni 
> *Sent: *Friday, March 8, 2019 10:31 AM
> *To: *Azores Genealogy 
> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?
>
>
>
> Hi Sam,
>
> I have wondered about all these terms as well. I have found that when the
> priest says "adulterina" he usually also mentions a father. Someone once
> told me that it meant that the baby was conceived before marriage or the
> couple were not married at all.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 12:12, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Happy Friday morning everyone;
>
>
>
> As I’ve been extracting baptisms/births, I have noticed that the same
> priest during the same time period will sometimes use Avo incognito and
> other times use Avo occult and on occasion simply state that it is
> “natural  de” and the mother’s name with no mention at all of the father.
> On only one occasion, so far, has it been stated that the mother is
> “adulterina” (may not have spelled that correctly)
>
>
>
> Does anyone know why it is recorded in these various ways.  I understand
> that if you are single you are not an “adulterine” but; other than that,
> what are the differences?
>
>
>
> Thanks for educating me,.
>
>
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>
>
>
>
> [image:
> https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?

2019-03-08 Thread nancy jean baptiste 
Sam,

I noticed the same thing in the Sao Jorge recordsthere were "alduterina's", 
the "pai nao sabido", pai occulto, and pai incognito.they all felt 
different but when I asked I was told they were all the samebut, I don't 
believe that anymore

Nancy Jean

From: 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2019 12:27 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?


Leonor;  In this case, no father was mentioned but; the husband’s name was 
listed as well as the fact that he had been away for over 300 days so, I think 
it truly means, “adulterer”, if I’m spelling that correctly.



Sam (Mazatlán, MX)



From: Leonor Bertoni<mailto:leonor.bert...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2019 10:31 AM
To: Azores Genealogy<mailto:azores@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?



Hi Sam,

I have wondered about all these terms as well. I have found that when the 
priest says "adulterina" he usually also mentions a father. Someone once told 
me that it meant that the baby was conceived before marriage or the couple were 
not married at all.



On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 12:12, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
mailto:azores@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Happy Friday morning everyone;



As I’ve been extracting baptisms/births, I have noticed that the same priest 
during the same time period will sometimes use Avo incognito and other times 
use Avo occult and on occasion simply state that it is “natural  de” and the 
mother’s name with no mention at all of the father.  On only one occasion, so 
far, has it been stated that the mother is “adulterina” (may not have spelled 
that correctly)



Does anyone know why it is recorded in these various ways.  I understand that 
if you are single you are not an “adulterine” but; other than that, what are 
the differences?



Thanks for educating me,.



Sam (Mazatlán, MX)





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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?

2019-03-08 Thread 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
Leonor;  In this case, no father was mentioned but; the husband’s name was 
listed as well as the fact that he had been away for over 300 days so, I think 
it truly means, “adulterer”, if I’m spelling that correctly.

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)

From: Leonor Bertoni
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2019 10:31 AM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?

Hi Sam,
I have wondered about all these terms as well. I have found that when the 
priest says "adulterina" he usually also mentions a father. Someone once told 
me that it meant that the baby was conceived before marriage or the couple were 
not married at all.

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 12:12, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
 wrote:
Happy Friday morning everyone;
 
As I’ve been extracting baptisms/births, I have noticed that the same priest 
during the same time period will sometimes use Avo incognito and other times 
use Avo occult and on occasion simply state that it is “natural  de” and the 
mother’s name with no mention at all of the father.  On only one occasion, so 
far, has it been stated that the mother is “adulterina” (may not have spelled 
that correctly)
 
Does anyone know why it is recorded in these various ways.  I understand that 
if you are single you are not an “adulterine” but; other than that, what are 
the differences?
 
Thanks for educating me,.
 
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 


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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Avo incognito, Avo occulto; difference?

2019-03-08 Thread Leonor Bertoni 
Hi Sam,
I have wondered about all these terms as well. I have found that when the
priest says "adulterina" he usually also mentions a father. Someone once
told me that it meant that the baby was conceived before marriage or the
couple were not married at all.

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 12:12, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Happy Friday morning everyone;
>
>
>
> As I’ve been extracting baptisms/births, I have noticed that the same
> priest during the same time period will sometimes use Avo incognito and
> other times use Avo occult and on occasion simply state that it is
> “natural  de” and the mother’s name with no mention at all of the father.
> On only one occasion, so far, has it been stated that the mother is
> “adulterina” (may not have spelled that correctly)
>
>
>
> Does anyone know why it is recorded in these various ways.  I understand
> that if you are single you are not an “adulterine” but; other than that,
> what are the differences?
>
>
>
> Thanks for educating me,.
>
>
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_5430085544783651279_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
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