Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
With the speed with which the annotation stream idea is being worked up, I can see the time is ripe to revisit the idea of an information mixing desk (cf an audio mixing desk). Info feeds come in at the top, stories can get boosted/attenuated in the presentation order according to eg timeliness, keywords, locale etc etc (cf bass, treble etc), effects applied to feeds correspond perhaps to annotation feeds, perhaps to info pulled in from other services (eg if a story/feed is tagged, then delicious can be mined for related pages, and perhaps even related feeds (hmm - does delicious support rss or webservice linktypes, so you can just search on those?) But that's by the by... What I meant to post was: As I understand it, the annotationStream idea allows a user to provide a set of annotations that can be applied to a particular original feed. But what if I want to define a feed that is a combination of several distinct annotationStreams defined at quite a high level? is there any merit in going a step further and having an annotationMix (or annotationPatch?) (that may or may not be an annotationStream?) that contains eg one or more useAnnotationStream annotationURI=URI-for-annotation-service / tags and defines which bits of those various annotations from each feed should be used in the final annotationMix? It wouldn;t go as far as defining an xslt to remix the final feed, but would be useful as a config file for a mixer of several feeds, perhaps, or setting up an XSLT to generate the final annotated/mixed feed? tony - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
RE: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
Hello Tony, Do you knock up prototypes? Dr. Roger Brittain The Old Rectory Brinklow Warwickshire CV23 0NE Great Britain Telephone (44) 01788 832 660 Mobile 07821 184 074 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Hirst Sent: 25 July 2005 1:04 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories With the speed with which the annotation stream idea is being worked up, I can see the time is ripe to revisit the idea of an information mixing desk (cf an audio mixing desk). Info feeds come in at the top, stories can get boosted/attenuated in the presentation order according to eg timeliness, keywords, locale etc etc (cf bass, treble etc), effects applied to feeds correspond perhaps to annotation feeds, perhaps to info pulled in from other services (eg if a story/feed is tagged, then delicious can be mined for related pages, and perhaps even related feeds (hmm - does delicious support rss or webservice linktypes, so you can just search on those?) But that's by the by... What I meant to post was: As I understand it, the annotationStream idea allows a user to provide a set of annotations that can be applied to a particular original feed. But what if I want to define a feed that is a combination of several distinct annotationStreams defined at quite a high level? is there any merit in going a step further and having an annotationMix (or annotationPatch?) (that may or may not be an annotationStream?) that contains eg one or more useAnnotationStream annotationURI=URI-for-annotation-service / tags and defines which bits of those various annotations from each feed should be used in the final annotationMix? It wouldn;t go as far as defining an xslt to remix the final feed, but would be useful as a config file for a mixer of several feeds, perhaps, or setting up an XSLT to generate the final annotated/mixed feed? tony - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk on 25 July 2005 at 15:42 + wrote: Do you knock up prototypes? Yes - given time (in fact, i only ever do prototypes, and then it's coded with cannibalised code that hangs together with the software equivalent of gaffer tape.i don;t think i've ever got anything as far as a late beta...;-) however, i'm blagging minutes rather than hours for not-work stuff at the mo, and the pace of change on this list means that prototypes are appearing at the speed of thought... if only i could get time to put a bid in for the info mixing desk as a proper research project...(gazes longingly into the distance) [resonates with this from Matt. I wish I could buy some time to get the annotation streams thing up and running! ] re the info mixing desk - I thought i'd blogged about this a bit ago, but can;t find it anywhere expect for a couple of pages of scribbled notes in an old logbook, so i'm afraid i can;t link you to more detailed thoughts just at the mo... Original idea was just a rap on an rss equivalent of something like this: http://www.theatrecrafts.com/sound_mixingdesk.html that was more than eg just this: http://www.feedcombine.co.uk/st/content/makefeed/ (which doesn;t appear to be working at the mo?) Cf the sounddesk, the line feeds are RSS feeds. Eq allows you to filter results on keywords, perhaps (eg like +terms and -terms in search engines), auxiliaries i saw as sending the rss to some sort of feed processor that returns something pulled from the original feed (tho now i realise that what the aux's would more usefully do is provide Matt's annotationStreams...) The different channels/faders, allow you to set the weight of items from different RSS inputs(with added FX/annotations) in the overall output infomix. This could be another RSS feed, or it could be data plotted on a google map, or some other visualisation. The sounddesk graphic doesn;t have mute/solo buttons, etc, but they'd be there to allow the infomixer to check individual feeds etc. I had a scout around some time ago for exemplars (lazy as i am) and about the only thing i came across at the time that wasn't an RSS aggregator was this text mixing desk http://www.lazaruscorporation.co.uk/v4/cutup/textinput.php which is NOT the sort of thing i was thinking of... but it probably takes you to interesting places if you think around it a bit... In terms of FX, it's also quite a fruitful starting point thinking of info analogues to sound FX, though they soon breakdown - so for example an echo on a blog posting might be a quote from, or interpretation of, that blog on another blog; Re annotation feeds - another useful 'annotation' might be images or movies to illustrate a feed (so the info mising desk needs an 'add image' effect..:-) tony --- SEE THE WICKED ROBOT INVASION MAP http://www.wickedrobots.co.uk/ --- Mail tags: --- Tony Hirst mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] blog: http://micro-info.blogspot.com/ Dept. of ICT, Faculty of Technology Open University, Walton Hall, Milton Keynes, MK7 6AA, UK Tel: +44 (0)19086 52789, m./SMS 07709 766223 http://robofesta.open.ac.uk/tony http://www.robofesta-uk.org - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
Here is the blog entry: http://datamining.typepad.com/data_mining/2005/07/feed_annotation.html Feed Annotation Streams With the help of Davy Mitchell, and the input of others on the backstage discussion list (Tony Hirst, Duncan Barclay, and others) we have put together the first proof of concept of Feed Annotation Streams (formerly known as RSS Annotation Streams). The idea is simple - consumers of a feed create annotations for that feed, the put those annotations in a new feed that refers to the original items by guid. The example is based on the BBC RSS news feed and Davy's mood score (is the news good or bad?) for the articles. The RSS feed is consumed in DataSphere and geotagged, the items are then referenced against the mood score FAS and coloured. The colouring I applied is very simple. If the sum of the mood scores for a location is positive, the pin is painted green, negative red and zero white. There is a lot still to do in terms of defining the spec, but it looks like it has great potential. Fas The Feed Annotation Stream looks something like: annotationStream feedURL=original-feed-url annotationURI=URI-for-annotation-service feedRead=date annotationStreamWrite=date annotation guid=item-guid !--annotation information here-- /annotation /annotationStream On 7/22/05, Matthew Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok - here is the very first instance of using a Feed Annotation Stream together with a feed from the bbc to produce geolocated, mood mapped news. The image shows a sample of data from a recent grab of rss from the beeb mixed with reading Davy's mood annotation feed. The pins indicate the volume of posts and the colours indicate the sum of the mood scores for that locatoin was negative (red) and positive (green). Phew! Having done this (with throw away code) I have some comments: 1) guid - needs to be the guid from the rss feed, not the (perma) link to the story. Davy - I munged the urls you had in there to provide actual guids. 2) unique? there were some duplicates, but i guess this doesn't matter. 3) Feed Annotation Stream is a better name as there is no reason it has to be for rss - anything with an identifiable guid would do. I'm probably going to blog this later and repeat the post to this list. I'd also like to put up a complimentary FAS for this data with the geolocation stuff in it to give a complete proof of concept. Davy - great stuff here - let me know what you would like to do next. I am working towards getting my stuff visible outside the company - these wheels move a little slower as there are some purchases involved. I would like to get more work done on the spec and to host it off my blog somehow. Please throw any comments up on this list! MattH On 7/22/05, Matthew Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More thoughts: the annotation spec should include information about when the rss feed was crawled and also when the annotation stream was created. I have some data now (both your annotation and some rss files with matching guids) saved to disc, I'll post the results sometime this weekend. MattH On 7/22/05, Matthew Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is great. I will get something together asap. Thanks! Matt On 7/22/05, Davy Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/22/05, Matthew Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still for something like the original file format I suggested earlier. Simplicity is very attractive in this type of endevour. :-) http://www.latedecember.com/sites/moodnews/moodnewsanno.xml Its one big xml of all the feeds as I don't store the feed URL in the db (yet!). Should be enough for a demo... Email me if you need anything changed etc. Interesting stuff!! Mood News development trundles on with a mix of back end and client stuff being added. It has been slowed by me hunting for the perfect Python IDE. A new version next week perhaps? Thanks, Davy Mitchell http://www.latedecember.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
On 7/23/05, Matthew Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is the blog entry: http://datamining.typepad.com/data_mining/2005/07/feed_annotation.html Feed Annotation Streams Looks good - but I might have to hack the Python RSS library I am using to get the GUID tag out of it :-) I'll have a go at updating the XML with more data such as supplying the colour data used on the web page instead of the raw score. If 2 or 3 of these feeds are combined. well the mind boggles! Off bug squishing... See you, Davy -- Davy Mitchell http://www.latedecember.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
Davy - yes, I think there is a real opportunity here for something. I'm imagining a ping server for FAS data. There is open source java code for a ping server, I bet we could trivially mod it to work for FAS data. If we could put this up and provide a front end (very very simple thing, just a list of all the annotation streams that have updated in the last n minutes)... What do you think? Do you have any server resources that we could use? If not, I'm pretty sure I can get my hands on something. BTW, note that the annotationURI i the annotationStream tag is meant to point to a specification for the annotations in the annotation node, not a pointer to the actual file. In otherwords, you need to have a mood annotation specification somewhere (e.g. stating that negative means bad, positive means good and 0 means neutral). The way URIs work is that they don't have to actually resolve to something, they just have to *mean* something. However, it is far more convenient if the URI points to an actual document that states the spec. I will work on something more formal as a definition. MattH On 7/23/05, Davy Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/23/05, Matthew Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is the blog entry: http://datamining.typepad.com/data_mining/2005/07/feed_annotation.html Feed Annotation Streams Looks good - but I might have to hack the Python RSS library I am using to get the GUID tag out of it :-) I'll have a go at updating the XML with more data such as supplying the colour data used on the web page instead of the raw score. If 2 or 3 of these feeds are combined. well the mind boggles! Off bug squishing... See you, Davy -- Davy Mitchell http://www.latedecember.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
Hi a couple of thoughts The use of Geotagging could be more useful if the tags were split according to the location of the author, location of the central story elements and the location where the story was published. For example, a story about Mugabe (location tag Zimbabwae), is filed from South Africa (location Tag Joberg), and "published" in the UK (location tag London/UK) In this way it would be possible to group stories by perspective, i,e the Australian press version of the London bombings, or the UK perspective on Mugabe as well as grouping by location of the stories, and their authors. This may link in well with any catagorization approaches to news feeds. A look up server that contained well known locations expressed in Lat/Long would make the application of the tag a simple process. If extended to the annotators, then one could the see the location based perspective of the commentator. Regards Peter (located in Australia- somewhere in the south pacific) Matthew Hurst wrote: More thoughts: the annotation spec should include information about when the rss feed was crawled and also when the annotation stream was created. I have some data now (both your annotation and some rss files with matching guids) saved to disc, I'll post the results sometime this weekend. MattH On 7/22/05, Matthew Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is great. I will get something together asap. Thanks! Matt On 7/22/05, Davy Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/22/05, Matthew Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still for something like the original file format I suggested earlier. Simplicity is very attractive in this type of endevour. :-) http://www.latedecember.com/sites/moodnews/moodnewsanno.xml Its one big xml of all the feeds as I don't store the feed URL in the db (yet!). Should be enough for a demo... Email me if you need anything changed etc. Interesting stuff!! Mood News development trundles on with a mix of back end and client stuff being added. It has been slowed by me hunting for the perfect Python IDE. A new version next week perhaps? Thanks, Davy Mitchell http://www.latedecember.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. -- Peter Williams CEO Eurofin Technologies www.eurofin.net T +612 9968 1240 F +612 9968 1552
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
I've been thinking about servers wrt annotations. Why wouldn't you just have a server that takes a query with a guid and produces an annotation? I thin kthere is a really good reason for not going for this at the first cut: simplicity. If everyone out htere who is providing meta data for rss feeds has to also provide a server, then that is a high barrier to entry. If all they have to do is run a web server and ping a ping service, that is easier. It would then be trivial to create a server that reads these annotations and acts as a clearing house with as much query based service as possible. Peter, your comments about location are spot on. In fact I tag all my rss feeds, where possible with locatoin data (where the feeds are published). I know that serious feed based services (like moreover.com) tag feeds with a huge number of meta data (40?). Having a server that, given a location, produces coords - this makes sense for fixed meta data, but then, if this is fixed, it would be preferable to only look the infor up once when entering the feed into a database, not to do it every time an article from the feed is published. I think one of the things you are getting it, which sounds really cool, is something that would be able to say 'here is how people in turkey view the bombings in london'. Perhaps you are extending the annotation idea (which is item oriented) to feeds. In other words, annotations for a feed (including the information about where the feed is from) could be delivered by a lookup service? Matt On 7/23/05, Peter Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi a couple of thoughts The use of Geotagging could be more useful if the tags were split according to the location of the author, location of the central story elements and the location where the story was published. For example, a story about Mugabe (location tag Zimbabwae), is filed from South Africa (location Tag Joberg), and published in the UK (location tag London/UK) In this way it would be possible to group stories by perspective, i,e the Australian press version of the London bombings, or the UK perspective on Mugabe as well as grouping by location of the stories, and their authors. This may link in well with any catagorization approaches to news feeds. A look up server that contained well known locations expressed in Lat/Long would make the application of the tag a simple process. If extended to the annotators, then one could the see the location based perspective of the commentator. Regards Peter (located in Australia- somewhere in the south pacific) Matthew Hurst wrote: More thoughts: the annotation spec should include information about when the rss feed was crawled and also when the annotation stream was created. I have some data now (both your annotation and some rss files with matching guids) saved to disc, I'll post the results sometime this weekend. MattH On 7/22/05, Matthew Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is great. I will get something together asap. Thanks! Matt On 7/22/05, Davy Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/22/05, Matthew Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still for something like the original file format I suggested earlier. Simplicity is very attractive in this type of endevour. :-) http://www.latedecember.com/sites/moodnews/moodnewsanno.xml Its one big xml of all the feeds as I don't store the feed URL in the db (yet!). Should be enough for a demo... Email me if you need anything changed etc. Interesting stuff!! Mood News development trundles on with a mix of back end and client stuff being added. It has been slowed by me hunting for the perfect Python IDE. A new version next week perhaps? Thanks, Davy Mitchell http://www.latedecember.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. -- Peter Williams CEO Eurofin Technologies www.eurofin.net T +612 9968 1240 F +612 9968 1552 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
On 7/21/05, Tony Hirst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk on 21 July 2005 at 21:52 + wrote: it seems you have the same motivation as I had when I mailed this list about RSS Annotation Streams! The whole idea sounds great. I have plans to expose some of the Mood News data but never thought of anything quite so detailed. How about an XML with the URL as GUID plus the data (rating, colour etc) ? Would it need a basic schema structure? Could lead to some very interesting client applications! Thanks, Davy -- Davy Mitchell http://www.latedecember.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
Is it against the TCs to provide an RSS file that is 99% the same as the one on the BBC but with geographical information added? On 21/07/05, Tony Hirst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk on 21 July 2005 at 21:52 + wrote: it seems you have the same motivation as I had when I mailed this list about RSS Annotation Streams! missed that - ah: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/msg00330.html and http://datamining.typepad.com/data_mining/2005/07/rss_annotation_.html I agree with the sentiment, and then some - if someone goes to the trouble of adding value to a story/feed, it would be good if those extras could be syndicated separately but identifiably too without others having to reinvent/reimplement the same technique/recreate the same annotation data. Perhaps this is format that we want to develop further? That sounds like an interesting (and perhaps useful) exercise...where to start? i tend to work back to generalised solutions from a couple of similar but different implementations of a thing...would it be fair to say that the annotation stream on its own would be relatively worthless without the original story it was annotating? or could you imageine it ever standing alone on its own terms? Back to the geotagged BBC stories, even something as simple as returning lat/long when passed a story ID would be v reusable... For example: http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/prototypes/archives/2005/05/a_map_of_the_ne.html http://boneill.ninjagrapefruit.com/wp-content/bbc/newmaps/ divines geo data and Duncan's http://backstage.min-data.co.uk/geotagged/ must have a script for locating stories So if someone can make story id/geotag info available, then I'm sure the lazy community (of which I count myself a part) would be v grateful :-) tony - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. -- Ben O'Neill [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
I think the separation of the original data from the annotation is attractive. Yes, the annotation would be almost meaningless without the original data, but it would save the annotation owner from republishing the original content and any considerations of legality, etc. In addition, it would drive traffic to the source of the original content (always a good thing). There are (at least) two possible approaches: a query approach (give me your annotation for this guid) and a syndicated approach. The syndicated approach is less of a resource strain as the provider just has to deliver something very similar to rss, they don't have to have a query service running, just a document server (web server). In terms of developing the idea, we could certainly start with getting feedback in this forum and even have some implementations provide a service (Davy?). But I'd also like to hear any advice about how we can rapidly formalize this and get the idea out there along with a proposal for an api/document format. If only we had that wiki we were all so excited about up and running... As the format is simple (guid mapping to some bundle of information), I guess we are thinking of something like: .. annotationStream feedURL= bbc feed that is being annotated annotationURI=http://www.latedecember.com/newsMood.xml;. annotation guid=... !-- put your annotation here-- /annotation ...more of above... /annotationStream Note that the stream points to both the rss feed and the annotation information (which ought to describe the syntax and semantics of the element at !--put your annotation here--) Davy, if you put a file up like this, I could easily integrate it into my data sphere thing and put up some screen shots - we could claim that constitutes the first implementation! Matt http://datamining.typepad.com On 7/22/05, Davy Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/21/05, Tony Hirst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk on 21 July 2005 at 21:52 + wrote: it seems you have the same motivation as I had when I mailed this list about RSS Annotation Streams! The whole idea sounds great. I have plans to expose some of the Mood News data but never thought of anything quite so detailed. How about an XML with the URL as GUID plus the data (rating, colour etc) ? Would it need a basic schema structure? Could lead to some very interesting client applications! Thanks, Davy -- Davy Mitchell http://www.latedecember.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
RE: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
This sounds like it could be built on top of one of a social bookmarking sites. Then you could post your (geo)tags of BBC News stories to your social bookmarks account using the site's API...and others could use the same API to interrogate the site for the tags that have been associated with a particular BBC News story by asking for all the tags associated with the story's URL. It doesn't look like this would be possible using del.ico.us because it's API http://del.icio.us/doc/api does not enable you to request all the tags/extended descriptions used for a particular URL. However perhaps one of the open source implementations e.g. http://de.lirio.us/ or http://sourceforge.net/projects/scuttle/ could be modified to enable this? Joel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Hurst Sent: 22 July 2005 10:09 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories I think the separation of the original data from the annotation is attractive. Yes, the annotation would be almost meaningless without the original data, but it would save the annotation owner from republishing the original content and any considerations of legality, etc. In addition, it would drive traffic to the source of the original content (always a good thing). There are (at least) two possible approaches: a query approach (give me your annotation for this guid) and a syndicated approach. The syndicated approach is less of a resource strain as the provider just has to deliver something very similar to rss, they don't have to have a query service running, just a document server (web server). In terms of developing the idea, we could certainly start with getting feedback in this forum and even have some implementations provide a service (Davy?). But I'd also like to hear any advice about how we can rapidly formalize this and get the idea out there along with a proposal for an api/document format. If only we had that wiki we were all so excited about up and running... As the format is simple (guid mapping to some bundle of information), I guess we are thinking of something like: .. annotationStream feedURL= bbc feed that is being annotated annotationURI=http://www.latedecember.com/newsMood.xml;. annotation guid=... !-- put your annotation here-- /annotation ...more of above... /annotationStream Note that the stream points to both the rss feed and the annotation information (which ought to describe the syntax and semantics of the element at !--put your annotation here--) Davy, if you put a file up like this, I could easily integrate it into my data sphere thing and put up some screen shots - we could claim that constitutes the first implementation! Matt http://datamining.typepad.com On 7/22/05, Davy Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/21/05, Tony Hirst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk on 21 July 2005 at 21:52 + wrote: it seems you have the same motivation as I had when I mailed this list about RSS Annotation Streams! The whole idea sounds great. I have plans to expose some of the Mood News data but never thought of anything quite so detailed. How about an XML with the URL as GUID plus the data (rating, colour etc) ? Would it need a basic schema structure? Could lead to some very interesting client applications! Thanks, Davy -- Davy Mitchell http://www.latedecember.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
(reposting) I think the volume of data that is potentially in this would not be suitable for a social bookmarking system. Imagine geocoding every news article in every news rss feed out there (say 10, 000 feeds). As for the redistribution of the rss content, the separation has one huge benefit. It means that a consumer could pick multiple annotation streams for a single rss feed. For example, I could listen t obbc rss, a geotagging stream and a mood stream and put them together (that is precisely what I want to do!). If the geotagger included geotagging and the rss but not the mood, and similarly the mood stream had the rss data, mood but not geo data, I would still have to do the alignment of differnet data. By making the separation part of the specificatoin, the whole thing is a lot cleaner and extensible - it all boils down to correct usage of guid. I'm still for something like the original file format I suggested earlier. Simplicity is very attractive in this type of endevour. Matt On 7/22/05, Joel Chippindale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds like it could be built on top of one of a social bookmarking sites. Then you could post your (geo)tags of BBC News stories to your social bookmarks account using the site's API...and others could use the same API to interrogate the site for the tags that have been associated with a particular BBC News story by asking for all the tags associated with the story's URL. It doesn't look like this would be possible using del.ico.us because it's API http://del.icio.us/doc/api does not enable you to request all the tags/extended descriptions used for a particular URL. However perhaps one of the open source implementations e.g. http://de.lirio.us/ or http://sourceforge.net/projects/scuttle/ could be modified to enable this? Joel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Hurst Sent: 22 July 2005 10:09 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories I think the separation of the original data from the annotation is attractive. Yes, the annotation would be almost meaningless without the original data, but it would save the annotation owner from republishing the original content and any considerations of legality, etc. In addition, it would drive traffic to the source of the original content (always a good thing). There are (at least) two possible approaches: a query approach (give me your annotation for this guid) and a syndicated approach. The syndicated approach is less of a resource strain as the provider just has to deliver something very similar to rss, they don't have to have a query service running, just a document server (web server). In terms of developing the idea, we could certainly start with getting feedback in this forum and even have some implementations provide a service (Davy?). But I'd also like to hear any advice about how we can rapidly formalize this and get the idea out there along with a proposal for an api/document format. If only we had that wiki we were all so excited about up and running... As the format is simple (guid mapping to some bundle of information), I guess we are thinking of something like: .. annotationStream feedURL= bbc feed that is being annotated annotationURI=http://www.latedecember.com/newsMood.xml;. annotation guid=... !-- put your annotation here-- /annotation ...more of above... /annotationStream Note that the stream points to both the rss feed and the annotation information (which ought to describe the syntax and semantics of the element at !--put your annotation here--) Davy, if you put a file up like this, I could easily integrate it into my data sphere thing and put up some screen shots - we could claim that constitutes the first implementation! Matt http://datamining.typepad.com On 7/22/05, Davy Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/21/05, Tony Hirst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk on 21 July 2005 at 21:52 + wrote: it seems you have the same motivation as I had when I mailed this list about RSS Annotation Streams! The whole idea sounds great. I have plans to expose some of the Mood News data but never thought of anything quite so detailed. How about an XML with the URL as GUID plus the data (rating, colour etc) ? Would it need a basic schema structure? Could lead to some very interesting client applications! Thanks, Davy -- Davy Mitchell http://www.latedecember.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
This is great. I will get something together asap. Thanks! Matt On 7/22/05, Davy Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/22/05, Matthew Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still for something like the original file format I suggested earlier. Simplicity is very attractive in this type of endevour. :-) http://www.latedecember.com/sites/moodnews/moodnewsanno.xml Its one big xml of all the feeds as I don't store the feed URL in the db (yet!). Should be enough for a demo... Email me if you need anything changed etc. Interesting stuff!! Mood News development trundles on with a mix of back end and client stuff being added. It has been slowed by me hunting for the perfect Python IDE. A new version next week perhaps? Thanks, Davy Mitchell http://www.latedecember.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
More thoughts: the annotation spec should include information about when the rss feed was crawled and also when the annotation stream was created. I have some data now (both your annotation and some rss files with matching guids) saved to disc, I'll post the results sometime this weekend. MattH On 7/22/05, Matthew Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is great. I will get something together asap. Thanks! Matt On 7/22/05, Davy Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/22/05, Matthew Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still for something like the original file format I suggested earlier. Simplicity is very attractive in this type of endevour. :-) http://www.latedecember.com/sites/moodnews/moodnewsanno.xml Its one big xml of all the feeds as I don't store the feed URL in the db (yet!). Should be enough for a demo... Email me if you need anything changed etc. Interesting stuff!! Mood News development trundles on with a mix of back end and client stuff being added. It has been slowed by me hunting for the perfect Python IDE. A new version next week perhaps? Thanks, Davy Mitchell http://www.latedecember.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
Hi, I could output geotagged news stories in xml if you like, but it would mean setting something up to actually work out where they are on a regular basis (at the moment the script I made to do it is only manual), although that is planned for another prototype I am in the middle of making.. Some data from ages ago is plotted at http://backstage.min-data.co.uk/geotagged/ . I don't think Yahoo's mapping service will be widely used as it is nowhere near as nice as Google's equivalent. It can't be long to the Microsoft one is release (at least in the US), which looks like it might be quite nice. I can probably get stuff up sometime after Open Tech (which I plan to go to by the way, assuming there aren't too many underground lines closed). Duncan Tony Hirst wrote: Several sites are plotting news stories on Gmaps I beleive (anyone using yahoomaps yet?) and as a result generating geo info for news stories. Lazy as I am, is anyone syndicating this geo info indexed/searchable by BBC news story ID? thanks tony --- SEE THE WICKED ROBOT INVASION MAP http://www.wickedrobots.co.uk/ --- Mail tags: --- Tony Hirst mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] blog: http://micro-info.blogspot.com/ Dept. of ICT, Faculty of Technology Open University, Walton Hall, Milton Keynes, MK7 6AA, UK Tel: +44 (0)19086 52789, m./SMS 07709 766223 http://robofesta.open.ac.uk/tony http://www.robofesta-uk.org - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
Tony, it seems you have the same motivation as I had when I mailed this list about RSS Annotation Streams! Perhaps this is format that we want to develop further? Matt On 7/21/05, Tony Hirst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Several sites are plotting news stories on Gmaps I beleive (anyone using yahoomaps yet?) and as a result generating geo info for news stories. Lazy as I am, is anyone syndicating this geo info indexed/searchable by BBC news story ID? thanks tony --- SEE THE WICKED ROBOT INVASION MAP http://www.wickedrobots.co.uk/ --- Mail tags: --- Tony Hirst mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] blog: http://micro-info.blogspot.com/ Dept. of ICT, Faculty of Technology Open University, Walton Hall, Milton Keynes, MK7 6AA, UK Tel: +44 (0)19086 52789, m./SMS 07709 766223 http://robofesta.open.ac.uk/tony http://www.robofesta-uk.org - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Re: [backstage] Geotagging BBC news stories
backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk on 21 July 2005 at 21:52 + wrote: it seems you have the same motivation as I had when I mailed this list about RSS Annotation Streams! missed that - ah: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/msg00330.html and http://datamining.typepad.com/data_mining/2005/07/rss_annotation_.html I agree with the sentiment, and then some - if someone goes to the trouble of adding value to a story/feed, it would be good if those extras could be syndicated separately but identifiably too without others having to reinvent/reimplement the same technique/recreate the same annotation data. Perhaps this is format that we want to develop further? That sounds like an interesting (and perhaps useful) exercise...where to start? i tend to work back to generalised solutions from a couple of similar but different implementations of a thing...would it be fair to say that the annotation stream on its own would be relatively worthless without the original story it was annotating? or could you imageine it ever standing alone on its own terms? Back to the geotagged BBC stories, even something as simple as returning lat/long when passed a story ID would be v reusable... For example: http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/prototypes/archives/2005/05/a_map_of_the_ne.html http://boneill.ninjagrapefruit.com/wp-content/bbc/newmaps/ divines geo data and Duncan's http://backstage.min-data.co.uk/geotagged/ must have a script for locating stories So if someone can make story id/geotag info available, then I'm sure the lazy community (of which I count myself a part) would be v grateful :-) tony - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
