Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-10 Thread David Friedman






One issue of major importance for Baha'is with relation to Christians is the resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection is connected to the ascension and return of Christ. If there was a bodily resurrection then there was a bodily ascension and the return of Christ would be the very same person returning. One thing I don't know how to explain well is 'Abdu'l-Baha's explanation. The explanation He gives certainly doesn't appear to agree with the resurrection narratives. 'Abdu'l-Baha says that the resurrection was the disciples regaining their faith. However, the narratives have the regaining of faith something that happens AFTER the resurrection. Furthermore, they have Jesus as helping them get their faith back, whereas 'Abdu'l-Baha says they got it back by themselves. When 'Abdu'l-Baha gives 
biblical proof it is not from the narratives. Hence I don't see how to prove that the resurrection had anything to do with the disciples. Any thoughts?

Regards,DavidRead the latest Hollywood gossip at  XtraMSN Entertainment 







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Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-10 Thread Scott Saylors
Well, Abdu'l Baha says there was no physical resurrection. In my mind the Apostles of Christ may well have seen Christ amongst them as a spiritual form beyond their comprehension.What ever else happened during that time, and however the Spirit of Christ amongst them is represented, the REAL resurrection was the resurrection of the Cause of God amongst the followers of Christ. Without that specific event, Jesus would have had no more impact on civilization than Mani had.Regards,  ScottDavid Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  One issue of major importance for Baha'is with relation to Christians is the resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection is connected to the ascension and
 return of Christ. If there was a bodily resurrection then there was a bodily ascension and the return of Christ would be the very same person returning. One thing I don't know how to explain well is 'Abdu'l-Baha's explanation. The explanation He gives certainly doesn't appear to agree with the resurrection narratives. 'Abdu'l-Baha says that the resurrection was the disciples regaining their faith. However, the narratives have the regaining of faith something that happens AFTER the resurrection. Furthermore, they have Jesus as helping them get their faith back, whereas 'Abdu'l-Baha says they got it back by themselves. When 'Abdu'l-Baha gives biblical proof it is not from the narratives. Hence I don't see how to prove that the resurrection had anything to do with the disciples. Any thoughts?Regards,DavidRead the latest Hollywood
 gossip at XtraMSN Entertainment   The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.   __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News -
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Is it okay? . . . .

2006-10-10 Thread Scott Saylors






. . . to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with some references and quotes from the Baha`i faith tucked away within the story, on this list? The book comes out in February and is available for pre-order at the moment.Regards,  Scott






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Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-10 Thread Richard H. Gravelly



1. Abdu'l-Baha refers, as well, to Mary 
Magdelena as the reason for the return of the faith of the 
disciples.

"O maid-servant of God! Verily, Mary, the 
Magdalene, was a villager, but she kept firm in the Cause of Christ and 
confirmed the apostles at the time she declared to them (thus): "Verily, Christ 
is alive and eternal and death did not overtake Him; and verily, the foundation 
of His religion is not shaken by His crucifixion at the hand of the oppressors!" 
By this her face is eternally shining from the horizon of 
guidance."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v2, p. 
268)

2. Perhaps if one were to approach the issue 
of "resurrection of the body" from the perspective of these verses; the task 
might not be so difficult. It would seem that the Christian will the need 
to face the fact that as "eating" cannot be taken literally' then the use of the 
word "bread" cannot be so taken. He might then be willing to conclude that 
bodily ascension is probably not what is meant by the word 
"ascended".


:6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my 
blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live 
by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

6:58 This is that bread which came down from 
heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this 
bread shall live for ever.
(King James Bible, John)

Richard.












  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Friedman 
  To: Baha'i Studies 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 1:25 
  AM
  Subject: Resurrection of Christ
  
  
  
  
  One issue of major importance for Baha'is with relation to 
  Christians is the resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection is connected 
  to the ascension and return of Christ. If there was a bodily 
  resurrection then there was a bodily ascension and the return of Christ would 
  be the very same person returning. One thing I don't know how to explain 
  well is 'Abdu'l-Baha's explanation. The explanation He gives certainly 
  doesn't appear to agree with the resurrection narratives. 'Abdu'l-Baha 
  says that the resurrection was the disciples regaining their faith. 
  However, the narratives have the regaining of faith something that happens 
  AFTER the resurrection. Furthermore, they have Jesus as helping them get 
  their faith back, whereas 'Abdu'l-Baha says they got it back by 
  themselves. When 'Abdu'l-Baha gives biblical proof it is not from the 
  narratives. Hence I don't see how to prove that the resurrection had 
  anything to do with the disciples. Any thoughts?
  
  Regards,David
  
  Read the latest Hollywood gossip at XtraMSN 
  Entertainment 
  
  
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Re: Is it okay? . . . .

2006-10-10 Thread Sekhmet209
Well, even if it's _not_ okay, the least you could do now that you've 
tantalized some of us is to tell us the name of the book! ;-)

--Sekhmet

In a message dated 10/10/06 8:30:51 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

. . .  to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with some
references and quotes from the Baha`i faith tucked away within the story,
on this list? The book comes out in February and is available for pre-order
at the moment.

   

  Regards,

  Scott




 
 
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Re: Is it okay? . . . .

2006-10-10 Thread smaneck
Congratulations, Scott. Tell us about your book. 

- Original Message -
From: Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:30 am
Subject: Is it okay? . . . .
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu

 . . .  to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with 
 some references and quotes from the Baha`i faith tucked away 
 within the story, on this list? The book comes out in February and 
 is available for pre-order at the moment.
   
  Regards,
  Scott
 
 
 
 
 As human beings, we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we 
 cannot shuffle off our responsibility upon the shoulders of God or 
 nature. We must shoulder it ourselves. It is our responsibility. 
 Arnold J. Toynbee 
 
 
 
 
 
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 prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please 
 immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and 
 permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments 
 thereto. Thank you.
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: Is it okay? . . . .

2006-10-10 Thread Scott Saylors
Okay, I'll bite the bullet. If it turns out it's not okay, just delete the message, Susan.The title is Sword of the Dajjal, you can find the pre-sale announcement at:  http://www.capripublishing.net/ click on books, click on Sci-Fi and scroll down.It is science fiction set 600 years in the future. The assumption is that even if technology allowed all the folks with a grudge to leave for parts unknown, you never out run a problem you haven't solved.From Wikpedia: '  al-Dajjal (Arabic: , al-dajjl) ("The Deceiver/impostor/quack"[1]) is an evil figure in Islamic eschatology, who will appear before Yawm al-Qiyamah. He is similar to the Antichrist in Christianity  "Dajjal" in itself is a commonly use Arabic word, "Dajjals" could refer to "False prophets". "Al-Dajjal" on the other hand translates to "The Impostor", refering to a specific end-of time deceiver. It is worthy to note that the term Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal (Arabic for "The False Messiah") is a literal translation of the Syriac term "Meshiha Deghala", which had been in the common vocabulary of the Middle East for
 more than 400 years prior to the Quran via the Peshitta (which uses that term instead of the Greek "antichristos").[1]  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Well, even if it's _not_ okay, the least you could do now that you've tantalized some of us is to tell us the name of the book! ;-)--SekhmetIn a message dated 10/10/06 8:30:51 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:. . . to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with somereferences and quotes from the Baha`i faith tucked away within the story,on this list? The book comes out in February and is available for pre-orderat the moment.
  Regards, ScottThe information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.__You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Unsubscribe: send a blank email to
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As human beings, we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we cannot shuffle off our responsibility upon the shoulders of God or nature. We must shoulder it ourselves. It is our responsibility. Arnold J. Toynbee 
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Re: Is it okay? . . . .

2006-10-10 Thread smaneck
So this is an ebook? 

- Original Message -
From: Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: Is it okay? . . . .
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu

 Okay, I'll bite the bullet. If it turns out it's not okay, just 
 delete the message, Susan.
   
  The title is Sword of the Dajjal, you can find the pre-sale 
 announcement at:
  http://www.capripublishing.net/  click on books, click on Sci-Fi 
 and scroll down.
   
  It is science fiction set 600 years in the future. The 
 assumption is that even if technology allowed all the folks with a 
 grudge to leave for parts unknown, you never out run a problem you 
 haven't solved.
   
  From Wikpedia: '
  al-Dajjal (Arabic: 
 #1575;#1604;#1583;#1617;#1580;#1617;#1575;#1604;, al-
 dajj#257;l) (The Deceiver/impostor/quack[1]) is an evil figure 
 in Islamic eschatology, who will appear before Yawm al-Qiyamah. He 
 is similar to the Antichrist in Christianity
  Dajjal in itself is a commonly use Arabic word, Dajjals 
 could refer to False prophets. Al-Dajjal on the other hand 
 translates to The Impostor, refering to a specific end-of time 
 deceiver. It is worthy to note that the term Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal 
 (Arabic for The False Messiah) is a literal translation of the 
 Syriac term Meshiha Deghala, which had been in the common 
 vocabulary of the Middle East for more than 400 years prior to the 
 Quran via the Peshitta (which uses that term instead of the Greek 
 antichristos).[1]  
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Well, even if it's _not_ okay, the least you could do now that 
 you've 
 tantalized some of us is to tell us the name of the book! ;-)
 
 --Sekhmet
 
 In a message dated 10/10/06 8:30:51 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 writes:
 . . . to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with 
 somereferences and quotes from the Baha`i faith tucked away 
 within the story,
 on this list? The book comes out in February and is available for 
 pre-order
 at the moment.
 
  
 
  Regards,
 
  Scott
 
 
 
 
 
 
 The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments 
 thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College 
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 only the individual or entity named above. The information may be 
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 dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly 
 prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please 
 immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and 
 permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments 
 thereto. Thank you.
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: Is it okay? . . . .

2006-10-10 Thread Scott Saylors
No, it will be a trade back (6X9 soft cover). I haven't sold e-book rights as yet.Scott[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  So this is an ebook? - Original Message -From: Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 3:12 pmSubject: Re: Is it okay? . . . .To: Baha'i Studies  Okay, I'll bite the bullet. If it turns out it's not okay, just  delete the message, Susan.  The title is Sword of the Dajjal, you can find the pre-sale  announcement at: http://www.capripublishing.net/ click on books, click on Sci-Fi  and scroll down.  It is science fiction set 600 years in the future. The  assumption is that even if technology allowed all the folks with a 
 grudge to leave for parts unknown, you never out run a problem you  haven't solved.  From Wikpedia: ' al-Dajjal (Arabic:  , al- dajjl) ("The Deceiver/impostor/quack"[1]) is an evil figure  in Islamic eschatology, who will appear before Yawm al-Qiyamah. He  is similar to the Antichrist in Christianity "Dajjal" in itself is a commonly use Arabic word, "Dajjals"  could refer to "False prophets". "Al-Dajjal" on the other hand  translates to "The Impostor", refering to a specific end-of time  deceiver. It is worthy to note that the term Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal  (Arabic for "The False Messiah") is a literal translation of the  Syriac term "Meshiha Deghala", which had been in the common  vocabulary of the Middle East for more than 400 years prior to the  Quran via the Peshitta (which uses that term
 instead of the Greek  "antichristos").[1]   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, even if it's _not_ okay, the least you could do now that  you've  tantalized some of us is to tell us the name of the book! ;-)  --Sekhmet  In a message dated 10/10/06 8:30:51 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  writes: . . . to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with  somereferences and quotes from the Baha`i faith tucked away  within the story, on this list? The book comes out in February and is available for  pre-order at the moment.  Regards,   Scott   The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments  thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College
  ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of  only the individual or entity named above. The information may be  protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or  other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the  intended recipient, you are notified that retention,  dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly  prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please  immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and  permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments  thereto. Thank you.   The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state
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Re: Is it okay? . . . .

2006-10-10 Thread Tim Nolan






Hello Scott, to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with some references and quotes from the Baha`i faith tucked away within the story, Since it contains quotes and referencesabout the Faith, did you have to get  approval from the Baha'i review committeewhere you live? I am interested because I also would like to write, so I want to understand the rules. Rob Stockman has written something about this, for the U.S., but I don't have his notes.Tim 
		Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at 1/min.







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Re: Is it okay? . . . .

2006-10-10 Thread Scott Saylors
The quote is unattributed and the word "Baha`i" is only used in reference to individuals. The main character never discloses his religion, and I say nothing that might be construed as an offical stance.An alien asks the main character "What is it that your Persian Prophets said of this?"And a brief quote from the Hidden Words is the response.Tim Nolan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hello Scott, to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with some references and quotes from the Baha`i faith tucked away within the story, Since it contains quotes and referencesabout the Faith, did you have to get  approval from the
 Baha'i review committeewhere you live? I am interested because I also would like to write, so I want to understand the rules. Rob Stockman has written something about this, for the U.S., but I don't have his notes.Tim  Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.   The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or
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Re: Is it okay? . . . .

2006-10-10 Thread Scott Saylors
I thought it might help to actually quote from the text of the book:  "  “. . .Such agony and destruction puzzles One. One cannot understand why one segment of your society should wish to impose its will on the rest of your people, by manipulating them with violence and terror. A people subjugated will never be a Unity. So say the Prophets of One’s people, so say the Prophets of humanity as well. One expects the people of a place and time to strive to deal honestly with one another, being frank and above board about needs and desires so the people can find a path which harms none and welcomes all.”  A teacher from the mosque said, “But Muhammad, praise be upon Him, says if it had been God’s intent to make us all one people, He would have done so. Is a consensus of the people sufficient to do right?”  “One’s prophets say, One’s people were made divided in intent and desire so that One’s people would strive to achieve Unity, and win a place with the Creator in the next existence.” The Ahnal turned to Malcolm, “What is it your Prophet said about the unity of men?”   Malcolm knew this one by heart. “He said:
 `Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created. Since We have created you all from one same substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul. . .’”.  “Yes, Captain Cristobal, that is what One recalled.” He turned to the Mullah and said, “One believes that your Prophet, Who should be praised, also said much the same. One is a humble student of the religion of both species, since One believes that there was but a single Creator.”  The Mullah nodded his head
 thoughtfully; “It would please me greatly if you might visit my Mosque, honored Pa’oli Anahl. It seems that in an age where we can reach out our hands, and embrace more and more of Allah’s Creation we see more and more how we all are His creatures, whatever our form might be.”   The Pa’oli’s music was rich and grand. “Yes, One will certainly do so, if the demands of the service allow.”(The Pa'oli are a species which only becomes truly sapient when bonded in mated pairs.)  Tim Nolan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hello Scott, to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with some references and quotes from the Baha`i faith tucked away within the story, Since it contains quotes and referencesabout the Faith, did you have to get  approval from the Baha'i review committeewhere you live? I am interested because I also would like to write, so I want to understand the rules. Rob Stockman has written
 something about this, for the U.S., but I don't have his notes.Tim  Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.   The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is
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As human beings, we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we cannot shuffle off our responsibility upon the shoulders of God or nature. We must shoulder it ourselves. It is our responsibility. Arnold J. Toynbee 
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Re: Is it okay? . . . .

2006-10-10 Thread Dean Betts



Is "One" the name of a character in this book?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Scott 
  Saylors 
  To: Baha'i 
  Studies 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 12:12 
  AM
  Subject: Re: Is it okay? . . . .
  
  I thought it might help to actually quote from the text of the 
book:
  "
  . . .Such agony and 
  destruction puzzles One. One cannot understand why one segment of your society 
  should wish to impose its will on the rest of your people, by manipulating 
  them with violence and terror. A people subjugated will never be a Unity. So 
  say the Prophets of Ones people, so say the Prophets of humanity as well. One 
  expects the people of a place and time to strive to deal honestly with one 
  another, being frank and above board about needs and desires so the people can 
  find a path which harms none and welcomes all.
  A teacher from the mosque 
  said, But Muhammad, praise be upon Him, says if it had been Gods intent to 
  make us all one people, He would have done so. Is a consensus of the people 
  sufficient to do right?
  Ones prophets say, Ones 
  people were made divided in intent and desire so that Ones people would 
  strive to achieve Unity, and win a place with the Creator in the next 
  existence. The Ahnal turned to Malcolm, What is it your Prophet said about 
  the unity of men? 
  Malcolm knew this one by 
  heart. He said: `Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? 
  That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your 
  hearts how ye were created. Since We have created you all from one same 
  substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul. . 
  ..
  Yes, Captain Cristobal, that 
  is what One recalled. He turned to the Mullah and said, One believes that 
  your Prophet, Who should be praised, also said much the same. One is a humble 
  student of the religion of both species, since One believes that there was but 
  a single Creator.
  The Mullah nodded his head 
  thoughtfully; It would please me greatly if you might visit my Mosque, 
  honored Paoli Anahl. It seems that in an age where we can reach out our 
  hands, and embrace more and more of Allahs Creation we see more and more how 
  we all are His creatures, whatever our form might 
  be.
   The Paolis music was rich and grand. Yes, 
  One will certainly do so, if the demands of the service 
  allow.
  
  (The 
  Pa'oli are a species which only becomes truly sapient when bonded in mated 
  pairs.)
  Tim Nolan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  


Hello Scott,

 to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with 
some references and quotes from the Baha`i faith tucked away within the 
story, 

Since it contains quotes and referencesabout the Faith, did you 
have to get
approval from the Baha'i review committeewhere you live? I 
am interested because I also would like to write, so I want to understand 
the rules. Rob Stockman has written something about this, for the 
U.S., but I don't have his notes.

Tim


Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great 
rates starting at 1¢/min. 


The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto 
("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is 
intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity 
named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy 
and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is 
not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, 
distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have 
received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply 
and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any 
attachments thereto. Thank you. 


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As human beings, 
we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we cannot shuffle off our 
responsibility upon the shoulders of God or nature. We must shoulder it 
ourselves. It is our responsibility. Arnold 
J. Toynbee