[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online

[howard posner]

On Nov 25, 2007, at 9:59 AM, Rob wrote:

> From the deep and faded, dusty vaults of my memory, I seem to  
> recall reading
> that Kuhnau bought two Gallichon's for St Thomas's in Leipzig,  
> which were
> still there when Bach took the post. Is that right, or am I drifting
> helplessly towards senility?

Neither of the above.  There's a letter from Kuhnau asking the town  
council for money to buy two gallichons so he wouldn't have to keep  
borrowing them, but I don't believe there's any record of the  
council's response.
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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online

[Daniel Shoskes]

Rob: I did go through a lot of the same questioning a year ago as I  
was having my first continuo instrument built for me. I did enjoy  
Benjamin's article and was tempted by the supposed ease at chord  
forms and harmony. 13 course Baroque lute is my primary solo  
instrument and there was a definite appeal. The primary argument  
against, made by more senior and experienced mentors, was that the  
interval of a third between the top two courses can make counterpoint  
and voice leading much more difficult. Thus, "If you wanted to add a  
small melodic interjection between two phrases, you have to contend,  
in each key, with the fact that there are three different interval  
structures between strings, (fourth, minor third and major third).   
There are basically only two on a normal archlute, fourths and a  
major third, and your neither your bass lines nor your treble  
improvisations normally cross over this divide.  Most stay pretty  
much to one side or the other.  Thus when you hear an idea in your  
head you can often finger it intuitively.  On baroque lute each  
moving bass line is fingered differently in each key as it crosses  
the strings."


Other reason I settled against a d minor continuo instrument: much  
longer string length for a "roman" lute (80 cm or more) which is  
tough for my stubby hands.


DS


On Nov 24, 2007, at 12:32 PM, Rob wrote:

Actually, I've been giving it a lot of thought as I have a theorbo  
on order
from Malcolm Prior, being made right now, and due to be stuffed  
down my
chimney by Santa. At first I just asked for an Italian-style  
instrument, and
we settled on the Koch at 86cms. Then I started getting into the  
idea of the
d minor tuning without the chanterelle. Malcolm and I looked at  
various
supposed 'Deutsche Theorboes', and Andreas Schlegel and others  
mentioned the

very same Koch we had chosen for our Italian model. I can't afford two
theorboes (few people can) so it seems a good compromise would be  
the Koch,

with which I could change tunings - obviously not in the same gig :-)

It seems a period of experimentation lies ahead. I'm just wondering  
what
your experience of Dm continuo is, pros and cons, what works, what  
doesn't.
Do you play more melodic counterpoint to the melody, or arpeggios?  
Is there
a different overall feel as compared to accompanying the same music  
on an

Italian tuning? Do you play without a chanterelle?

Etc,
Rob

www.rmguitar.info






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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online

[Roman Turovsky]

From: "Rob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From the deep and faded, dusty vaults of my memory, I seem to recall 
reading

that Kuhnau bought two Gallichon's for St Thomas's in Leipzig, which were
still there when Bach took the post. Is that right, or am I drifting
helplessly towards senility?

The former (I am not sure about them still being there though...).
RT






Interesting point about the similarity of tuning, Martin. I never thought 
of

that.



Rob



www.rmguitar.info





 _

From: Martyn Hodgson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 25 November 2007 16:49
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'baroque Lutelist'
Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online





Note that the top three courses of the D tuned Gallichon/Mandora are the
same as this 'german' theorbo in Dm.  Coincidence? - maybe, since the 
large

A tuned Gallichon (string length c 95cm) seems to have been the usual
professional continuo instrument of this family with the smaller 
instruments
(say mid 60s - mid 70s) being amateur instruments. Advantage of the G/M 
is,
of course, a fully chromatic stopped (ie no over-ringing) bass from D (or 
A,

for the large instrument).  Kuhnau thought they were ideal, especially for
ensuring the bowed basses entered on the beat.

MH


Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Thanks Jurek. It seems that a few players use dm tuning for continuo. I 
once
saw Imamura accompanying singers on a 13c lute. It sounded great. But so 
far
I haven't seen anyone perform in dm without the chanterelle, as mentioned 
by

Baron. Apart from Tim Burris and now Benjamin Narvey, who else does?

Rob

www.rmguitar.info



-Original Message-
From: Jerzy Zak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 25 November 2007 00:58
To: baroque Lutelist
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online



Thanks to Benjamin for such an interesting article. Hopefully it will
stimulate discussion here. Does anyone play continuo on baroque lute?


If it's not strictly Italian (and sometimes even then) I play continuo
on d-m more often then on any other lute. For German music seems the
most obvious, for an ''archlute music'' the sound efect is almost the
same -- just personal choice (and joy).

Jurek
___



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 _

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  it now.


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online

[Rob]

>From the deep and faded, dusty vaults of my memory, I seem to recall reading
that Kuhnau bought two Gallichon's for St Thomas's in Leipzig, which were
still there when Bach took the post. Is that right, or am I drifting
helplessly towards senility? 

 

Interesting point about the similarity of tuning, Martin. I never thought of
that.

 

Rob

 

www.rmguitar.info

 

 

  _  

From: Martyn Hodgson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 25 November 2007 16:49
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'baroque Lutelist'
Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online

 

 

Note that the top three courses of the D tuned Gallichon/Mandora are the
same as this 'german' theorbo in Dm.  Coincidence? - maybe, since the large
A tuned Gallichon (string length c 95cm) seems to have been the usual
professional continuo instrument of this family with the smaller instruments
(say mid 60s - mid 70s) being amateur instruments. Advantage of the G/M is,
of course, a fully chromatic stopped (ie no over-ringing) bass from D (or A,
for the large instrument).  Kuhnau thought they were ideal, especially for
ensuring the bowed basses entered on the beat.

MH


Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Thanks Jurek. It seems that a few players use dm tuning for continuo. I once
saw Imamura accompanying singers on a 13c lute. It sounded great. But so far
I haven't seen anyone perform in dm without the chanterelle, as mentioned by
Baron. Apart from Tim Burris and now Benjamin Narvey, who else does?

Rob

www.rmguitar.info



-Original Message-
From: Jerzy Zak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 25 November 2007 00:58
To: baroque Lutelist
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online


> Thanks to Benjamin for such an interesting article. Hopefully it will
> stimulate discussion here. Does anyone play continuo on baroque lute?

If it's not strictly Italian (and sometimes even then) I play continuo 
on d-m more often then on any other lute. For German music seems the 
most obvious, for an ''archlute music'' the sound efect is almost the 
same -- just personal choice (and joy).

Jurek
___



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html




 

  

  _  

Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try
  it now.


--

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online

[Martyn Hodgson]

 
  Note that the top three courses of the D tuned Gallichon/Mandora are the same 
as this 'german' theorbo in Dm.  Coincidence? - maybe, since the large A tuned 
Gallichon (string length c 95cm) seems to have been the usual professional 
continuo instrument of this family with the smaller instruments (say mid 60s - 
mid 70s) being amateur instruments. Advantage of the G/M is, of course, a fully 
chromatic stopped (ie no over-ringing) bass from D (or A, for the large 
instrument).  Kuhnau thought they were ideal, especially for ensuring the bowed 
basses entered on the beat.

  MH
  
Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Thanks Jurek. It seems that a few players use dm tuning for continuo. I once
saw Imamura accompanying singers on a 13c lute. It sounded great. But so far
I haven't seen anyone perform in dm without the chanterelle, as mentioned by
Baron. Apart from Tim Burris and now Benjamin Narvey, who else does?

Rob

www.rmguitar.info



-Original Message-
From: Jerzy Zak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 25 November 2007 00:58
To: baroque Lutelist
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online


> Thanks to Benjamin for such an interesting article. Hopefully it will
> stimulate discussion here. Does anyone play continuo on baroque lute?

If it's not strictly Italian (and sometimes even then) I play continuo 
on d-m more often then on any other lute. For German music seems the 
most obvious, for an ''archlute music'' the sound efect is almost the 
same -- just personal choice (and joy).

Jurek
___



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html





   
-
 Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now.
--

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online

[Rob]

Thanks Jurek. It seems that a few players use dm tuning for continuo. I once
saw Imamura accompanying singers on a 13c lute. It sounded great. But so far
I haven't seen anyone perform in dm without the chanterelle, as mentioned by
Baron. Apart from Tim Burris and now Benjamin Narvey, who else does?

Rob

www.rmguitar.info
 
 

-Original Message-
From: Jerzy Zak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 25 November 2007 00:58
To: baroque Lutelist
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online


> Thanks to Benjamin for such an interesting article. Hopefully it will
> stimulate discussion here. Does anyone play continuo on baroque lute?

If it's not strictly Italian (and sometimes even then) I play continuo 
on d-m more often then on any other lute. For German music seems the 
most obvious, for an ''archlute music'' the sound efect is almost the 
same -- just personal choice (and joy).

Jurek
___



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html