Re: re Hydroponics, my 2 cents worth
Well this has been positively stupefying. Hydroponics and BD agriculture are as far apart as anything I can imagine. Yes, preps will help anything. Yes, using clay, humates, BC, 501, etc., etc., etc. will no doubt assist the hydro-grower. But bottom line is , biodynamics is a SYSTEM to heal the earth (yes, and everything living on, in and above it). Can we just go on? Kermit PS - And Allan, add my name to the list of those praising you with great praise for all your work on our behalf. Kermit Carter, General Manager Flowers by the Sea LLC A Demeter Certified Biodynamic Farm and Nursery V 707 877-1722 F 707 877-1721 PO Box 89 Elk, California 95432 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.fbts.com Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now. " Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
Re: Question for Elaine
Can a link to OSU's research be provided. I have six acres I would like to try this on. thanks scott - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:49 AM Subject: Question for Elaine In an interview with an Aussie here http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/Interviews/Interviews10.htm Elaine is quoted below. I would like for her to elaborate from her experience and maybe provide more reference that could be researched. Dan Elaine: "The reason the pan is formed is because the soil got compacted, then went anaerobic. It always is the micro-organisms getting the life back into that hardpan that opens it up and prevents it from reforming as a compacted hardpan zone. Soil-life is the key. It needn’t take very long with biology. Work at Ohio State University shows that you can break up a hardpan at four inches in six weeks by just getting the right kinds of fungi into that soil. You can break up a hardpan at four feet in six months."
SFW: Flowforms for Brewing Compost Teas
> >> From Cheryl Kemp >> >>For Elaine, firstly thanks for the tremendous job you are doing - >> were are learning so much, and your work is really helping us to >> understand how Biodynamics works in the soil. > >> My question is: Can a flowform be used instead of a brewer for >> compost tea, especially if we use warmed water? >> My thoughts are that the oxygenation and movement helps develop >>the organisms. >> Have you done any experiments with this? >> >> PS. If you would like to do some experiments in Australia I could >> help organise it! We have a flowform maker just near your Lismore Lab. > > Cheryl Kemp > >Hi Cheryl - > >Thank you for the kind words. I do very much appreciate them. > >I think a flow form can make tea of just as good microbial activity and total >biomass as commercial tea makers. Of course, I have more data on >the commercial >tea makers. Little differences in the design of tea machines can be extremely >important, so I would think the same would be the case for flow >forms. Movement >and aeration are critical because you have to keep the organisms aerobic. >Extraction through the compost is critical too, because you have to pull the >organisms from the surface of the compost and into the water. So, if the flow >forms keep the liquid well aerated, and pull the organisms from the >compost, plus >impose an energy pattern on the water, then maybe flow forms can >make great tea >too. We need to assess the organisms, and the impact on the plants, soil, and >surfaces in order to document this. > >So, yes, I would like to do some experiments on this, but we'd need >to sit down >and talk about the experimental design, and that most unfortunate of >topics, how >is going to pay to run the experiments? I wish we could do all this work for >free, but the technical staff need to buy food and pay rent.. > >So, let me know what you see for possible interactions! I hope we >can find some >funding someplace! > >Elaine Ingham
Re: Hydoponic BD 2
So what are your plans for the future? bob SLF Archipelago_Map.gif Description: GIF image
Re: re Hydroponics (FWD from GREG WILLIS)
Allan, I do take offense to that condescending comment. The fact that you mention conveyors with nutrient solutions in reference to my ideas means you do not read them - you know. Your instant lack of faith in me is upsetting. I don't know what it is specifically about this that makes you shut your eyes and keep seeing the same thing despite people saying, "No, that vision is not what we are talking about," but I don't want to ruffle your feathers anymore with open talk. No Thanks, Chris --- Allan Balliett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Certainly true if only HID lights are used. > > > >I think we are raising too much dichotomy here. We > >will talk about it some time. The things I have in > >mind are hybrid systems that are good for > greenhouse > >work in areas with bad or polluted soils. It is > not > >so reductionist as you may be thinking. > > > >Thanks, > >Chris > > I dunno Chris. All I can see is that foolish > conveyer belt pulling > those horrific bare rooted kale plants through > nutrient sprays and > wondering why we aren't happly working with what we > were given. So > pardon me if I can't help but look at your post and > think 'Well, you > can take the kid out of Epcot, but you can't take > the Epcot out of > the kid,' you know? > > Thanks > > -Allan > __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
Re: Resend: Advertisements for BD Now!
Sorry, Allan, I don't know. I don't even know "Biodynamic Perspectives". I live near Mildura, northwest corner of Victoria in Australia. Being a German migrant ( now Australian citizen) I have rather more connections to Germany than the closer NZ. Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 11/01/2002 09:19:59 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Christiane Jaeger/NRE) Subject: Re: Resend: Advertisements for BD Now! Thanks for the attaboy, Christiane! Now, is there any chance that you know anyone in NZ who can comment on the authors in Biodynamic Perspectives? thanks -Allan >Hi Allan, > >Your own words in your email are fantastic. There is nothing to add. Just >rehash them a bit. Here is a start: > >Bio-dynamics Now! provides an easy opportunity for people all >around the Earth to work together. >On the BD-Now! discussion list bio-dynamic farmers and those interested in >bio-dynamics share their ideas and experiences, are stimulated, >learn lots and >participate in a dream of a better world, where man is not apart. >We value your inputs. Join our virtual caring global community of >Bio-dynamics >Now! by sending an email to .. > >I hope that's of some help. >I really do appreciate the work you put into this list by acting as moderator >etc. > >Regards, >Christiane Jaeger
Re: Resend: Advertisements for BD Now!
Thanks for the attaboy, Christiane! Now, is there any chance that you know anyone in NZ who can comment on the authors in Biodynamic Perspectives? thanks -Allan >Hi Allan, > >Your own words in your email are fantastic. There is nothing to add. Just >rehash them a bit. Here is a start: > >Bio-dynamics Now! provides an easy opportunity for people all >around the Earth to work together. >On the BD-Now! discussion list bio-dynamic farmers and those interested in >bio-dynamics share their ideas and experiences, are stimulated, >learn lots and >participate in a dream of a better world, where man is not apart. >We value your inputs. Join our virtual caring global community of >Bio-dynamics >Now! by sending an email to .. > >I hope that's of some help. >I really do appreciate the work you put into this list by acting as moderator >etc. > >Regards, >Christiane Jaeger
New thread: evaporation vis rainfall
Hi! All, I live in the driest state on the driest continent and have to do battle with water, or the lack of it for much of the year. (Port Lincoln, South Australia) In Australia, there has been a lot of work done to allow local food production in areas where there is little available water, such as remote communities and ABoriginal settlements. This has been on ways of water harvesting and mulching etc. Through Phil Callahan's work, we know that soil with a high Paramagnetic value tends to resist evaporation and is conducive to precipitation, including high dew fall. Put simply, if one can up the Paramagnetic value, you will get more effective water harvesting from the atmosphere and less given up to the atmosphere. It would also seem that the right conditions will help hold the water in the soil layer, rather than allow migration to the sub-soil and beyond. Effective dew fall can add up to many inches of rain equivalent in a fall year. Reducing evaporation can be significant. In my area, right on the coast, we get about nineteen inches of rain and have a six or seven foot evaporation rate. A hundred miles away, it is ten inches and fourteen to sixteen feet. Much of the inland is less than five inches and tens of feet. When flying to England, we went over many of the "Gulf States" and the "Biblical Lands". In times past, these were forested and productive, where I saw only deserts. I think the key factor has been the destruction of the Paramagnetic force in the soil. This allows more evaporation and does not attract dew fall. Those who have read Callahan and that of those who hang from his Lab Coat tails, will know that a Diamagnetic soil can change toward Paramagnetic with the inclusion of oxygen, humates and a vital soil biota, in other words, if one establishes a well functioning BD environment, we start to get some of the advantages of a Paramagnetic condition. More effective water harvesting and less loss though evaporation. When In England I was mainly in areas that have rainfall not unlike the parts of Australia, that are nearly desert, like my own area. I think the key difference is the much lower evaporation. On my own land, where we have really built the soil up and got it firing, we use much less water than in the areas we are still working on. If one is looking for an a lead in to promote the wide spread use of BD, consider the water retention/ harvest aspect. On highly Diamagnetic soils, I would also consider adding Paramagnetic rock dust. Gil
SFW: Anaerobic Bacteria Remdiates PCBs
I never thought of this that seriously until Elaine mentioned it on the list yesterday, today, my co-worker Tim was breaking this story in the Baltimore press -AB Welcome Progress on PCB Decontamination By Tim Zink Distributed 1/10/02 by Blue Ridge Press Words: 838 There may be reason for hope in the effort to contain and minimize the damage to the public health and natural environment inflicted by polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs). After seven years of experiments on PCB-laden sediments taken from the Inner Harbor in Baltimore, Md., a team of researchers reportedly has identified the first strain of anaerobic bacterium known to break down the strong chlorine bonds within these chemical compounds. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, over 1.5 billion pounds of PCBs were manufactured and sold in the U.S. before the 1976 Toxic Substances Control Act banned domestic production and trade of the compounds. Long prized because of their chemical stability, flame resistance and performance as an insulator, PCBs were used in products ranging from electrical equipment to insecticides. But they are now known to carry significant risks. Limited research into a direct causal link between PCB exposure and cancer in humans has come close to finding a smoking gun, but inconsistencies among studies have made clear proof elusive. Still, the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry has concluded that, "Based on the evidence of cancer in animals, the Department of Health and Human Services has stated that PCBs may reasonably be anticipated to be carcinogens." Further, a 1996 EPA study found that " PCBs also have significant ecological and human health effects other than cancer, including neurotoxicity, reproductive and developmental toxicity, immune system suppression, liver damage, skin irritation, and endocrine disruption." Which makes the discovery of a PCB-dechlorinating bacterium a major development, especially since communities nationwide are struggling to assess and reduce the levels of PCB contamination which have befallen them. January 2002 saw the start of the second lawsuit brought by citizens of Anniston, Ala., where a Monsanto Co. factory released immense amounts of PCBs into the air, soil and water over several decades. Recent inquiries allegedly have found that high-ranking officials from Monsanto, the largest U.S. PCB manufacturer, knew PCBs posed serious threats to human health long before production was halted. If proven in court - and if effective cleanup technologies can be developed - the company's chemical division spinoff, Solutia Inc., may be held responsible for shouldering broad cleanup measures and public health studies. Similar stakes may come into play in New York, where federal regulators recently mandated that the General Electric Co. remove PCB-contaminated sediments from stretches of the Hudson River. Debate has continued to flare, however, because in some places the sediments on the river bottom appeared to be naturally lessening the levels of PCB contamination. At other sites in the Hudson, PCB levels in sediments remained constant. Ultimately, a lack of scientific certainty over the best course of cleanup has delayed remediation efforts. For several reasons, the collaborative sediment analysis performed by researchers from the University of Maryland's Biotechnology Institute and the Medical University of South Carolina, funded by the U.S. Office of Naval Research, could mark the beginning of real progress on these fronts. First, while scientists have known that certain aerobic microbes were able to dechlorinate lesser-concentrated PCBs, many within the scientific community were skeptical of ever finding a microbe capable of breaking down the compounds with greater chlorine concentration. Most PCBs commercially produced in the U.S. fall in the latter category. Second, by identifying one of the bacterium necessary for dechlorination of PCBs to occur, the researchers have sped the emergence of practical microbial probes that can guide cleanup activities. Such probes could be used to test sediments on site for the presence of the bacterium necessary to break down PCBs, allowing relatively quick and accurate decision making on cleanup options. In the Hudson River cleanup, for example, microbial probes might allow for on-the-spot testing on whether sediments would break down naturally or require dredging, eliminating complex lab sampling that can consume many months and dollars. Kevin Sowers, the principal researcher from UMBI, considers his team's research a big step toward greater understanding and treatment of PCB contamination. "But a lot more steps need to be taken in the future," he said. "We've found organisms (that cause PCBs to break down) and identified them, next we need to study how exactly they work." There are over 200 known chemical arrangements that PCBs may demonstrate. The recently identified bacterium is especially promising, though, because
Re: Resend: Advertisements for BD Now!
Hi Allan, Your own words in your email are fantastic. There is nothing to add. Just rehash them a bit. Here is a start: Bio-dynamics Now! provides an easy opportunity for people all around the Earth to work together. On the BD-Now! discussion list bio-dynamic farmers and those interested in bio-dynamics share their ideas and experiences, are stimulated, learn lots and participate in a dream of a better world, where man is not apart. We value your inputs. Join our virtual caring global community of Bio-dynamics Now! by sending an email to .. I hope that's of some help. I really do appreciate the work you put into this list by acting as moderator etc. Regards, Christiane Jaeger
Re: REMINDER: Elaine is available through Friday
As I understand it, earthworm castings produce a reliable, well-balanced tea and also facilitate homeopathic herbal and mineral additions. Isn't this compost a good, somewhat easy to replicate material that would make it easier to test out the effectiveness of various additions to the mix? Any problems surfacing with using earthworm compost tea? Another question: Maybe I'm missing the boat here but with reasonably good soil crumb structure doesn't adding compost tea also improve fertility provided the microbes have carboneous-type materials to chew on? Isn't this part of the holy grail for growing healthy, nutritious crops where nutrients become tied up by micro-organisms, and become insoluble but available, as Hugh L. has so effectively instructed us? Haven't seen any discussion of the fertility opportunities here yet,only disease prevention. Thanks so much Allan for setting this opportunity up! -Original Message- From: Allan Balliett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:23 AM Subject: REMINDER: Elaine is available through Friday >Elaine is going to be answering questions for BD Now! through tomorrow. > >Now's the time: if any of the answers she has given have raised more >questions about SFW or compost making or compost tea, be sure to ask >for answers to those new questions! > >Thanks > >-Allan > >
Shopping tips
I just confirmed that Frontier herbs is disconinuing their superb line of capsuled herbs. They are remaining in bulk herbs (and empty caps...). They will continue the experimental garden and will continue the grower support that they are famous for. (I post this here for the information of you growers who either grow for Frontier or dream of growing for them.) Central Tractor and those stores known as "CT Farmily or Farm or Fleet or whatever" are out of business. I don't know how it is in your town , but in our town most everything is 20% off and will be even cheaper week after week. even better, all the shit sold at 10 percent off and they are now down to REAL GOODS, which seem to be holding, even at 20 percent. I bought a pile of tube gates yesterday and a long coveted t-post puller (the last one there, couldn't wait for 30 off) I don't think they can afford to advertise. If you need fencing, feed or implements, you might want to make a trip to town. _Allan
OFF: factory farms
Please take a few minutes and make a call to help stop the very cruel conditions that are part and parcel of industrial animal farming. Warm regards, Deborah Byron HUMANElines A project of The Humane Society of the United States and The Fund for Animals(202)955-3666 [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELL YOUR SENATORS TO DITCH DORR: Thomas Dorr, a staunch proponent of factory farms who once declared, "factory farming is a model for the future," has been nominated to become USDA's new undersecretary for rural development under the Bush Administration. Dorr's appointment would be disastrous for animals and the environment, paving the way for factory farms to further dominate the agriculture scene. Factory farms are notorious for both the animal suffering they inflict (with horribly congested, filthy, stressful and unhealthy conditions) and the tremendous amount of waste they dump into the environment, fouling waterways and generating a stench that carries for miles. Despite this, Dorr's vision for the future, as outlined in a 1998 interview with the New York Times, calls for county-sized corporate farms, averaging 225,000 acres, to be operated as giant agricultural factories. He has denounced sustainable agriculture programs that promote more humane alternatives. WHAT YOU CAN DO: Call your two U.S. Senators today (Congressional Switchboard: 202/224-3121) and urge them to "OPPOSE Thomas Dorr's nomination for USDA undersecretary for rural development." Let them know that Dorr's appointment to this key position would spell disaster for animals, the environment, and rural communities nationwide. If you need to identify the names of your Senators, visit: www.senate.gov or call The HSUS at (202)955-3666. _
Re: re Hydroponics (FWD from GREG WILLIS)
>Certainly true if only HID lights are used. > >I think we are raising too much dichotomy here. We >will talk about it some time. The things I have in >mind are hybrid systems that are good for greenhouse >work in areas with bad or polluted soils. It is not >so reductionist as you may be thinking. > >Thanks, >Chris I dunno Chris. All I can see is that foolish conveyer belt pulling those horrific bare rooted kale plants through nutrient sprays and wondering why we aren't happly working with what we were given. So pardon me if I can't help but look at your post and think 'Well, you can take the kid out of Epcot, but you can't take the Epcot out of the kid,' you know? Thanks -Allan
Take heart, don't be discouraged
Dear friends, I am fairly new to this list and there is so much to learn. Knowing very little about biodynamics, I prefer to learn enough to actually have some questions before spouting off. However, I do want to express my appreciation for this list and all who are here; making the world a better place one bit at a time. Dearest Allan, do not be disheartened by so few that participate by talking. Remember, the audience is just as important as the "players". We are all participants, just at our own pace and in our own way. There may also be those folk who don't put up a squeak here, but are talking about biodynamics to others in their own circles. There are many brilliant and intuitive minds giving and receiving information, and not all of them human. **Know that your efforts are not in vain. You do make a difference. ** (Okay, that was a channeled bit from somewhere that I was to add.) Always keep in mind and heart that the ripple effect of small drops of water DO affect the whole. Namaste, Bonnie York PSAllan, is there anything specific that you need help, encouragement or support for/with?
Re: re Hydroponics (FWD from GREG WILLIS)
Allan,
--- Allan Balliett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm not interested in working with growing
> systems in which
> humans introduce the "parts" they think should be in
> such a system,
> I'm interested in working with growing systems that
> optimize the
> natural system ("heal the Earth").
Albrecht, Steiner, Reams, Willis, Lovel,
Schaubeger(sp?), Reich...all are choosing "parts" they
think should go into the farm system (rock
dusts/mineral balancing; cosmic energies from pipes;
prep application), or be multiplied within the system
(on-farm prep making and composting). If we can not
try to understand the systems and make decisions about
the "parts", even wrong decisions, we are not using
our human potential. Just because extension/AgScience
are a bunch of fools doesn't mean you should throw
away your mind.
hydroponic systems commonly (but not necessarily)
> ignore the value of
> natural light: not just sunlight, but moonlight,
> planetlight, and
> starlight in producing food truly appropriate for
> humans.
Certainly true if only HID lights are used.
I think we are raising too much dichotomy here. We
will talk about it some time. The things I have in
mind are hybrid systems that are good for greenhouse
work in areas with bad or polluted soils. It is not
so reductionist as you may be thinking.
Thanks,
Chris
__
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
Re: New Member Introduction
Hi Cheryl, welcome aboard BD Now from a neighbor just up the road in Santa Fe. Good luck with your wornderful project, Steven Steven McFadden, Director Chiron Communications 7 Avenida Vista Grande #195 Santa Fe, NM 87508 USA http://www.chiron-communications.com
Question for Elaine
In an interview with an Aussie here http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/Interviews/Interviews10.htm Elaine is quoted below. I would like for her to elaborate from her experience and maybe provide more reference that could be researched. Dan Elaine: "The reason the pan is formed is because the soil got compacted, then went anaerobic. It always is the micro-organisms getting the life back into that hardpan that opens it up and prevents it from reforming as a compacted hardpan zone. Soil-life is the key. It needn’t take very long with biology. Work at Ohio State University shows that you can break up a hardpan at four inches in six weeks by just getting the right kinds of fungi into that soil. You can break up a hardpan at four feet in six months."
REMINDER: Elaine is available through Friday
Elaine is going to be answering questions for BD Now! through tomorrow. Now's the time: if any of the answers she has given have raised more questions about SFW or compost making or compost tea, be sure to ask for answers to those new questions! Thanks -Allan
New Member Introduction
Greetings, Our project is in the City of Albuquerque on Open Space Land. It has a very public face and is used by walkers, joggers, etc. We lease the land from the city to demonstrate agricultural projects including an annual 8 acre corn maze, 1 acre community garden, and 40 acres of veggies, hedgerows, and crops for wildlife demonstrating agroecology. ABQ is a migratory fly over zone for the beautiful cranes, so our wildlife crops serve as habitat and food for them in the winter. The entire property is 138 acres, but we sub-lease the remainder to a local dairy farmer who manages it for hayland. We don't have the equipment needed to manage the whole property. We utilize the traditional acequias or ditches as our irrigation system. We are certified organic in the fields we manage, but haven't bothered with Demeter, as it has little value for our audience. Although they always are interested to see us spraying etc, and ask questions. New Mexico has a fascinating cross-cultural agricultural heritage, but is rated in the bottom 5 of the nation in poverty. One-third of NM's children are hungry. We have just received a USDA food security grant to incorporate growing fresh food for the food charities into the project. This is very challenging because of a lot of problems with disease and pests. We hope the BD will help to strengthen the life forces of the plants to be able to resist these problems. We sprayed Hugo Erbe's recipe for Frankincense, Gold and Myrrh on Three King's Day. Have you ever worked with this? Cheryl
Resend: Advertisements for BD Now!
Friends - It has always been my dream that people can and will work together to make the world a better place. I've always believed that if everyone contributes just a little, we can accomplish an awful lot. Biodynamics Now! has provided an easy opportunity for people all around the Earth to work together. There are many indications that this discussion group has done much to literally make the world a better place. I think it important that we work to make certain that everyone who is interested in the values and methods we support here has an opportunity to chose to participate in this virtual community. I have to admit that I've personally become very disappointed in the last two years at the very small level of participation that actually occurs on this list. With the exception of a literal handful of people, participation on the list is pathetically self-centered. I'm not criticizing egoism or salesmanship with this statement, which, of course, are the driving forces behind most of the best conversations. I'm criticizing the many who look for what they can TAKE from BD Now! without any consideration of what they can BRING. There are so many opportunities to bring something to this communal pot, even if it is just your own observations (How does your garden grow?) Which brings me to this case in point (see below): Am I REALLY the only one who is interested in outreach for BD Now! While I think that more minds, hearts and voices will make the discussion more valueable, and while I think that reaching more farms, gardens, and flower pots with BD will make the world a better place for everyone, I have to ask myself if I'm alone in this. Let me know - on-line or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks -Allan Balliett Who, if it were not for the Harpies, would feel mighty alone >BIODYNAMICS Journal has offered to run announcements for BD Now! in >their future issues. The 'ads' will be text-based and small, similar >to the 'ads' currently run for Caretaker Gazette. (The deadline is >also immediate. No later than tomorrow.) Those of you who have been >reading BD Now! for a while know that this is a rather momentous >event and I want to give public thanks to everyone involved with the >Journal for making this possible. > >The question: what words would you chose to make people new to >biodynamics aware of what the discussion here can offer them? > >Other biodynamic publications will be running announcements for BD >Now! in the near future and I expect a regular ad in ACRES to become >possible later in the year. > >Viva diversity! No? > >Thanks > >-Allan Balliett
Re: re Hydroponics (FWD from GREG WILLIS)
In perfect agreement with Allan in this particular, let me add
a few things more:
a) The plants should give back something to the soil. Its root
exudate as a minimum;
b) Roots have a role to perform in the soil, like opening it up
for air and water to drain in;
c) micro life has a dynamic relation with the plants under the
soil;
d) We don't know what kind of energies go up and down the plants;
e) Some plants -- like certain well-known leguminosae -- have a
very important role of extracting nitrogen from the air and
bringing it into the soil (with the help of some bacteria)
This list could go on and on. When we do hydroponics we KNOW
we are impeding several things to take place. Probability is
that there are many other things we don't know...
Let commercial growers who want more and more money in
less and less time use hydroponics. Those of us who see the
planet as Gaia should avoid it.
- fernando
Allan Balliett wrote:
>
> Chris - I'm not interested in working with growing systems in which
> humans introduce the "parts" they think should be in such a system,
> I'm interested in working with growing systems that optimize the
> natural system ("heal the Earth"). You know: the plant between the
> earth and sun, with the plants roots firmly in the soil.
>
> A basic contention of this 'piety' is that, as far as producing
> appropriate food for humans is concerned (the goal of any real
> growing system), we do not yet know of either all the 'elements'
> healthy living farm soil contains nor of what it receives from
> biological relationships or cosmological 'forces.' Furthermore, the
> hydroponic systems commonly (but not necessarily) ignore the value of
> natural light: not just sunlight, but moonlight, planetlight, and
> starlight in producing food truly appropriate for humans.
>
> So, sure, work with hydroponics if you want to. Use the preps if you
> want to. God knows they can be used anywhere: I have friends who
> spray them regularly around public buildings in the hope of
> introducing real life there. I understand that hydroponics may have
> appropriate applications at certain times and certain places, but
> let's keep in mind that there are hundreds of people who've joined
> this list to learn about biodynamics, which is commonly seen as
> holistic, integrating and natural.
>
> Thanks -Allan
>
> >Yeah, Allan, that was basically my reaction to your
> >post, too, thought I didn't have much time to get into
> >it. Watch out for the lure of BD piety. Hydroponics
> >does not have to mean chemicals, it means you remove
> >the soil physics, which are often limiting to the
> >system, or contaminated.
> >
> >Here is one thing to chew on:
> >Any compost teas will be loaded with humic colloids,
> >basically timy pieces of soil humus.
> >
> >So how would there be no earth element, no life ether,
> >no soil? All those arguments become bullshit quickly.
> > Add some azomite or other clay and you have colloidal
> >mineral earth, which will associate with the humic
> >colloids and you have the basis of dispersed soil
> >solutions. There will be oodles of microorganisms,
> >and there can be plenty of "forces", if you add them.
> >
> >I have many ideas on these lines and have been holding
> >them until I can work on them.
> >
> >I am sure Willis will come up with some good things.
> >The Storchman would, too, if he applied to it.
> >
> >Chris
> >
> >
> >--- Allan Balliett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Dear Allan,
> >>
> >> You said:
> >>
> >> >Bob - Biodynamics is a system. Unlike
> >> factory-oriented approaches,
> >> >biodynamics cannot be 'parted out,' so, if you want
> >> to use a
> >> >biodynamic element as a "tool" in your hydroponics
> >> operation, well,
> >> >you still ain't doing biodynamics and there ain't
> >> any real reason to
> >> >discuss what it is that you are doing on this list.
> >> >
> >> >Further more, I should hasten to add, many people
> >> would argue that
> >> >biodynamics begins with the soil, so, you probably
> >> aren't ever going
> >> >to be doing biodynamics in your hydroponics
> >> operation and there ain't
> >> >a lot of reason to discuss what it is that you are
> >> doing on this list.
> >> >
> >> >OK?
> >> >
> >> >Thanks
> >>
> >> -Allan Balliett
> >> moderator
> >> BD Now!
> >>
> >> Well, I couldn't disagree with you more and I would
> >> very much
> >> appreciate it if you would send Bob's email address
> >> to me so we could
> >> discuss this.
> >>
> >> Fundamentally, what Steiner was teaching is in the
> >> title for his
> >> lectures, to wit: "Foundations for the Spiritual
> >> Renewal of
> >> Agriculture." The "tools" as you describe them, are
> >> essential for
> >> the working of the approach but they are not the
> >> "system". I have
> >> studied hydroponics extensively and I am convinced
> >> that a Steiner
> >> approach to it would not only bring more spiritual
> >> energy to the
> >> plants g
Re: Fwd: Re: ELAINE: BD NOW! What is the future of compost tea?
I've passed this question to Elaine, but let's keep in mind that Elaine is an expert in microbiology and not in biodynamics. She is very open to biodynamics, can perceive that it does 'work' and is interested in knowing more about it. Please, everyone, do not take her statements about biodynamics to have real relevance to our biodynamic practice. I invited Elaine to talk on BD Now! because the insights she's gained on plant/soil dynamics can be tremendously useful for anyone growing plants in cooperation with nature. I think we should use Elaine for what we know she is good for and not take offense at her misunderstandings in the area ofthe theories and practices of biodynamics. -Allan > >Elaine >How do you explain the success of potentised BD preps as fungal or pest >protection when they are firstly in 12% alcohol and diluted to 10X 30??? > >Whats doing it?
Re: Fwd: Re: ELAINE: BD NOW! What is the future of compost tea?
For the Akashic - Elaine Ingham wrote the paragraph below, not Allan Balliett. >Allan Balliett wrote: >> BD preps work the same way, I think. Why? They have the >> >organisms in them that inhibit, compete with and consume the >> >disease-causing organisms. I think we could do alot to making certain >> >that the BD preps "work" every time if we understood the organisms in > > >the preps better. Just as we have done for compost tea. > > >
Re: ashing
Moen Creek wrote: > > > Perhaps special instructions for the snakes (most of the ones > I > > have captured are 3 feet or more long. > > I will risk being improper and un-PC and suggest > Eating them & then urinating around your gardens. > This works well for deer abatement even my wife uses > a chamber pot in the spring to have enough to mark > the gardens & re-establish proper boundaries. Problem with eating them is that I am a vegetarian. Sometimes I do cook them for my brothers and friends. When I am in the wrong mood (carnivorous mode -- which is very, very rare) I can even break my usual diet and have a piece. But I don't think I'd like to make a habit of it :-) Now, the real problem is: I don't fear the snakes myself. But since my father was bitten (he is OK now) my relatives, friends and workers are frightned. I have no way to convince them that the snakes should survive. If for no other reason because they control the rats and mice. Once I turn my back they kill'em. I'd rather see them protected in a different perimeter than killed in the garden or even in the house. > "Tango Ombrei Porforvor" as this gringo is want to > say. Here we have "Samba, homem, por favor". Regards - fernando -- REDUZIR, REUSAR, RECICLAR -- Dever de todos, amor aos que virão REDUCE, REUSE, RECYCLE -- Everybody's duty, love to those who are to come Fernando CabralPadrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15º 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6" W 19º 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6" W
Experiences with Radionics and Biodynamics in OZ
Hi! Allan, Thank you for subbing me right on. If you feel this would be of interest, feel free to post it to the list. Gil My current interest in Radionics is a direct result of Hugh Lovel's work on what I tend to think of as "Energetic Agriculture". About ten or twelve years ago, I decided, that, in at least my case, much of my health problems were related to food and environmental factors. I found by Radiesthesia and later confirmed by reading, that nearly all food currently available, had levels of chemical and other pollutants that made them unsuited for human consumption. This set me off on a search, initially for my own interest and protection, to find how I could produce clean, healthy food for my own use. This grew into an aim to find and define a workable system that could be promoted to commercial growers, so they could produce food that was more suited for humans, while still making reasonable profits and that this food should not cost the end user significantly more than chemically polluted food. This took my down the path to Organics, then BD. With Dean Gentlin leading the way, we started with 500/ 501 twice a year and compost preps in all our compost heaps. We soon found marked changes. Wild mushrooms came up in our clay soil, clean, unlike those a few yards away. They were larger and thicker. They were not worried by slugs, millipedes etc for several days and tasted much better. We are sure we can taste the difference in our vegetables. We started making peppers, with mixed success. Some times spectacular and others doubtful. Occasionally the reverse of our intention. In my case I could easily handle the two to four acres of garden and fruit trees, but I also wanted to use BD Preps and peppers over the whole 200 acres. Then Hugh's articles on "Cosmic Pipes", came out in Acres USA. Hugh has been kind enough to answer my many questions and when he visited Australia, I was able to spend time in his company, by courtesy of Barbara and James Hedley. It was Hugh, who told me, if I was to use a device like his Field Broadcaster, and wanted to make Preps for it to suit our Australian conditions, I would need to learn the English Radionics system. I was already working to this end. I have just spent five weeks of special one to one training in the UK, to tidy up my training and equip me to teach others in Australia. I will be doing this in the name of the Radionic Centre of Australia and under the direction of the Keys College of Radionics, who will handle the examinations for the students. I think that Biodynamics, as currently used is great, but it is not the whole story. In my area, we have to look at remineralising the soil, as ours are very depleted. Paramagnetic rock dust of the right type is a start, but in most cases will need some topping up. Our soils are very low in soil carbon and most productive country has been abused with chemicals, thus there is little, if any good soil biota. BD can help with this, but on badly denigrated sites, there is not the food for a reasonable soil biota level, so we have to look to providing this also. Another issue here, is the need to recondition water. Our mains water is largely from underground basins and quite energetically dead. Some water we use is said to have been in the basins for hundreds of thousands of years!! Even just a couple of very strong magnets, properly placed, will produce measurable differences. At the risk of offending much of the list. I think, in my situation, Biodynamics has a central and major place in the scheme of things, but I must also balance the minerals in the soils/ provide paramagnetic rock dust to help the energy levels/ increase soil carbon/ provide food for soil biota and recondition my water supply. In addition I have many feral pests to deal with. Some such as weeds and some insects will go or be of little impact, as the energy levels rise and system gets up to speed. But there is problems like foxes, rabbits, mice and rats, which I doubt will move away without encouragement. This is an area where I thing the devices such as Hugh's Broadcaster, or the "kites" used in the UK and Australia will be of great use. An example is Joan Saunder's property. She is a Radionic Practitioner of many years standing. Twenty years or so ago, they planted a commercial apple orchard. Rabbits came for miles and started to ring bark the young trees. Shooting, trapping etc did not make an impact. Still they came. They set up Kites and set them to keep the rabbits outside the fences of the property. In days, the rabbits understood and would run along the out side of the fence and no longer come into the property. In about 1984, there were major wild fires and all the fences were burnt, along with the Kites. The remains of the Kites went to the tip along with the fences and a number of out building and contents. (Including a De La Warr Camera!!) Even to day, the rabbits run along the fence lines, but do not come into the property!!
Re: re Hydroponics (FWD from GREG WILLIS)
Chris - I'm not interested in working with growing systems in which
humans introduce the "parts" they think should be in such a system,
I'm interested in working with growing systems that optimize the
natural system ("heal the Earth"). You know: the plant between the
earth and sun, with the plants roots firmly in the soil.
A basic contention of this 'piety' is that, as far as producing
appropriate food for humans is concerned (the goal of any real
growing system), we do not yet know of either all the 'elements'
healthy living farm soil contains nor of what it receives from
biological relationships or cosmological 'forces.' Furthermore, the
hydroponic systems commonly (but not necessarily) ignore the value of
natural light: not just sunlight, but moonlight, planetlight, and
starlight in producing food truly appropriate for humans.
So, sure, work with hydroponics if you want to. Use the preps if you
want to. God knows they can be used anywhere: I have friends who
spray them regularly around public buildings in the hope of
introducing real life there. I understand that hydroponics may have
appropriate applications at certain times and certain places, but
let's keep in mind that there are hundreds of people who've joined
this list to learn about biodynamics, which is commonly seen as
holistic, integrating and natural.
Thanks -Allan
>Yeah, Allan, that was basically my reaction to your
>post, too, thought I didn't have much time to get into
>it. Watch out for the lure of BD piety. Hydroponics
>does not have to mean chemicals, it means you remove
>the soil physics, which are often limiting to the
>system, or contaminated.
>
>Here is one thing to chew on:
>Any compost teas will be loaded with humic colloids,
>basically timy pieces of soil humus.
>
>So how would there be no earth element, no life ether,
>no soil? All those arguments become bullshit quickly.
> Add some azomite or other clay and you have colloidal
>mineral earth, which will associate with the humic
>colloids and you have the basis of dispersed soil
>solutions. There will be oodles of microorganisms,
>and there can be plenty of "forces", if you add them.
>
>I have many ideas on these lines and have been holding
>them until I can work on them.
>
>I am sure Willis will come up with some good things.
>The Storchman would, too, if he applied to it.
>
>Chris
>
>
>--- Allan Balliett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Dear Allan,
>>
>> You said:
>>
>> >Bob - Biodynamics is a system. Unlike
>> factory-oriented approaches,
>> >biodynamics cannot be 'parted out,' so, if you want
>> to use a
>> >biodynamic element as a "tool" in your hydroponics
>> operation, well,
>> >you still ain't doing biodynamics and there ain't
>> any real reason to
>> >discuss what it is that you are doing on this list.
>> >
>> >Further more, I should hasten to add, many people
>> would argue that
>> >biodynamics begins with the soil, so, you probably
>> aren't ever going
>> >to be doing biodynamics in your hydroponics
>> operation and there ain't
>> >a lot of reason to discuss what it is that you are
>> doing on this list.
>> >
>> >OK?
>> >
>> >Thanks
>>
>> -Allan Balliett
>> moderator
>> BD Now!
>>
>> Well, I couldn't disagree with you more and I would
>> very much
>> appreciate it if you would send Bob's email address
>> to me so we could
>> discuss this.
>>
>> Fundamentally, what Steiner was teaching is in the
>> title for his
>> lectures, to wit: "Foundations for the Spiritual
>> Renewal of
>> Agriculture." The "tools" as you describe them, are
>> essential for
>> the working of the approach but they are not the
>> "system". I have
>> studied hydroponics extensively and I am convinced
>> that a Steiner
>> approach to it would not only bring more spiritual
>> energy to the
>> plants grown, but sweeter, tastier, longer lasting
>> vegetables also
>> that are highly nutritious both physically and
>> metaphysically.
>>
>> This spring, my company is going to start research
>> on hydroponics
>> using our field sprays and other Steiner derived
> > techniques. I will
>> not consider, even for a millisecond, that this
>> could be called
>> "biodynamic". And to this comment I must add,
>> "biodynamics" today
>> has little relationship to what Steiner taught
>> anyway. It is far too
>> limiting and limited as it is practiced and
>> promulgated by the
>> self-appointed leaders and organizations. So to
>> shoehorn the limited
>> concept of "biodynamics" into hydroponics is an act,
>> I think, that is
>> both foolhardy and self-limiting in and of itself.
>>
>> Also, as practiced today, "biodynamics" is not a
>> system. It is a
>> group of practices cobbled together by, in many
>> cases, well meaning
>> people who, for the most part, fail to grasp the
>> most basic concepts
>> of this approach to farming, which is, again, the
>> reintroduction of
>> SPIRITUAL ENERGY into our food which is lo
Re: ashing
James and Barbara Hedley wrote: > > The insects burn down to nothing so I would potentise to 8x and then dilute > and either water or spray out. Make sure that you enclose the area that you > are trying to protect with the spray / ash by going right around the > perimeter. About potentizing, should I do it diluting in water (say, 100 ml), shaking and then diluting again in 1 l, shaking, from that, 100 ml in 1 l again, for ten times? For how long should I shake it? Any other hints appreciated. > Good luck in your South American odyssey. Thank you. > James Hedley. > -- REDUZIR, REUSAR, RECICLAR -- Dever de todos, amor aos que virão REDUCE, REUSE, RECYCLE -- Everybody's duty, love to those who are to come Fernando CabralPadrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15º 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6" W 19º 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6" W
Re: ashing
Dear Sarah, We have found that a fire sign moon is the most effective for burning of insects. in order of preference Leo, Sagitarius, Aries. Carbonate the insects in a cast iron frypand homoeopathically potentise them as per the methods developed by Lili and Eugen Kolisko [see archives]. Trials over a considerable period of time have shown that it is the potentising that makes the difference to the efficacy of BD peppers. Regards James Hedley. - Original Message - From: "Sarah Cherry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:38 PM Subject: Re: ashing > Maria Thun's 'picture book" entitled "Gardening for Life" has a fairly > specific outline regarding insects. She only lists a few, but you might > get a sense of the rhythms she is suggesting from reading that book. > Hugh Courtney at JPI has detailed instructions on burning and making > the deltution. Insects are the trickiest to ash for. Their form is so > varied during metamorphosis, the sun time for ashing will move > correspondingly. With some insects, Thun found, you even have to > consider the moon. > > I'm interested to hear that Agnihotra is effective in this regard. > > The information from JPI was in the newsletter some time ago. If you > can't find a copy, write back and I'll dig for mine. > > Sarah > --- Aurora Farm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Greetings Fernando: > > The ashing process works mainly with insects, rodents and plants and > > the > > basic info is in Steiner's Agriculture. > > We have had success with Agnihotra ash for pests as well. Their > > website is , > > I believe, www.copworks. com/Agnihotra. There is a newsletter they > > put out > > which has many articles on farms which have fewer pest problems once > > they > > begin to practice Agnihotra. > > Blessings and Good Luck, > > Barbara and Woody > > P.S. If anyone knows of the German book which explains in detail the > > ashing > > process for certain plants we would sure appreciate knowing the > > title. > > Thanks > > > > http://www.kootenay.com/~aurora > > -Original Message- > > From: Fernando Cabral <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: Monday, January 07, 2002 1:29 PM > > Subject: Re: ashing > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > I think you better just relocate..sstorch > > > > Is this supposed to be a joke? > > > > - fernando > > > > > > -- > > REDUZIR, REUSAR, RECICLAR -- Dever de todos, amor aos que virão > > REDUCE, REUSE, RECYCLE -- Everybody's duty, love to those who are > > to come > > Fernando CabralPadrao iX Sistemas Abertos > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br > > Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 > > 15º 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6" W > > 19º 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6" W > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > >
Re: ashing
Dear Fernando, It certainly sounds as if you are in some pretty wild country down there. [1] Rattlesnakes. Try burning some on a full moon and spreading the ash around. I have an acqaintance in Broome (Aust) who tryed burning vertebrates in many piles through her orchard and just leaving it there. try burning several rattlenakes in different piles and just leave the ash where it is burnt. [2] You ask about moon and time of day for collecting the material, burning it > and spreading it. We have found that to burn the insects on a 3rd quarter of Leo moon [as per Llewellyn's moon Sign Book not the biodynamic calenders which can differ by as much as 2 days from Llewellyns]. This years stock has not arrived but as soon as they do I will post you dates and times for the next few months. We have found that insects are easier to control than vertebates. [2] How to burn the material.We have found that the best results are obtained by carbonating the pests in a cast iron saucepan or frying pan with a lid on it. Carbonating seems to work better than burning. [3] Spreading. Vertebrates as per rattlesnakes. The insects burn down to nothing so I would potentise to 8x and then dilute and either water or spray out. Make sure that you enclose the area that you are trying to protect with the spray / ash by going right around the perimeter. Good luck in your South American odyssey. James Hedley. - Original Message - From: "Fernando Cabral" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 10:57 PM Subject: ashing > I have had lots of problems with > > Snakes (great number of rattle snakes) > crickets (they chew around the plant whose growing tip is cut off > and > drops to the ground). > bees (arapuã, a Brazilian black bee that eats flowers, buds, > young fruits and any soft plant tissue) > butterfly > > I'd like to test ashing to diminish their attacks. Since I have > never > seen full, clear explanation on how to prepare and use the ashes, > I'd > appreciate if someone out there could educate me on that. > > Things like: > > a) moon and time of day for collecting the material, burning it > and spreading it > b) How to burn the material > c) How to spread the ashes > > Perhaps special instructions for the snakes (most of the ones I > have captured are 3 feet or more long. > > Thank you > > - fernando > > > > -- > REDUZIR, REUSAR, RECICLAR -- Dever de todos, amor aos que virão > REDUCE, REUSE, RECYCLE -- Everybody's duty, love to those who are > to come > Fernando CabralPadrao iX Sistemas Abertos > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br > Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 > 15º 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6" W > 19º 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6" W > >
Re: Growing fruit/berries biodynamically
Dear Dave, My apologies for the late reply to your request for more information on our use of Lycopodium as a homoeopathic treatment to strengthen the archetypal being of a plant.The berry picking and processing season is now finished, consequently I will have more energy to devote to the love of my life (biodynamics) and getting plants to grow how they shouldn't. This idea is still in the early stages of observation of what happens. The theory is that once plants evolved from the primitive algaes the first two were Lycopodium and Equisetum. Lycopopdium fits between the mosses and the ferns, both of which were able to propagate in the sulphur rich environment at that time.an incredibly tough pair of plants. The story starts with my finding of a large number of dendrites in the strata of sedimentary rocks in an area near us. For those who have never seen a dendrite, it is the exact image of one of the Lycopodium ferns, however at that particular geological age there was not any above ground plants (or so biology tells me). The patterns for the forthcoming plants were already here before they came into physical manifestation. The strange thing is that this pattern was caused by pressure well below the earths surface acting upon iron and manganese rich fluid seeping between the strata of the rocks. Lycopodium also has the common name of vegetable sulphur, sulphur being the organising element, the assumption is that Lycopodium sprayed on the foliage and soil of plants that were doing poorly would give some type of effect. My hypothesis if you could call it that, involved an assumption that these two plants were necessary for the rest of the plant world to evolve. I do not need to enunciate any further on the role of Equisetum. which has such a favoured place in biodynamic theory and practice, however the fact that the first two plants on earth have such a great impact in homoeopathic practice indicated to me that it had an application in healing the elementals involved in plant growth. Lycopodium is one of the great polychrest remedies of the Materia Medica, renowned for it's impact on the whole organism. Initial tests have shown that Apricot trees which had not fruited for at least 10 years, as long as I can remember were able to set a bumper crop of fruit and the trees are as vigorous as can be. raspberries grow into shrubs not just canes. The use of radionically potentised homoeopathic doses of herbal remedies to treat plants has a lot of potential in strengthening plants. I intend to use mixtures of Calcarea, Lycopodium and Sulphur this yearon strips in pasture just to see the effects. By the way has anyone ever investigated or used that common old weed Phytolacca in homoeopathic dilutions to set the patterns for regulation of the potassium element. Phytolacca root can contain up to 45% caustic potash and large amounts of malic acid. If there is anyone who reads this who can help with the role of malic acid in plant growth could they please help with information.i read about it once and now I can't find the information. Maybe Chris Shade can help with developing my ideas about Lycopodium in relation to the dendritic patterns found in sedimentary rocks. Love and Light, James Hedley - Original Message - From: "Dave Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 6:45 AM Subject: Re: Growing fruit/berries biodynamically > This is interesting > "To achieve this we use homoeopathic remedies such as Lycopodium at > high potency to bring the plants back to their archetypal patterns." > James, can you tell us more? > > > == > Dave Robison > >
