date:20021218

HI ALL
gelignite n?, for the explosive farm, fun apart what do you do whit it.
And more problem is the terrorist issue,
If one is planing to have this on the field I suggested to have Federal
permit.
Thanks
Per Garp/NH

- Original Message -
From: Aurora Farm [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 02:47 PM
Subject: Re: Perfect Orchard - gelignite?


 Sometimes the dictionary is just what we need:  Gelignite n. An explosive
 mixture, comprised of nitroglycerine, guncotton, wood pulp, and potassium
 nitrate. [GEL(atin) + Lat. ignis, fire + ITE.]

 Would probably work nicely to loosen soil, eh?
 Woody at
 Aurora Farm. the only
 unsubsidized, family-run seed farm
 in North America offering garden seeds
 grown using Rudolf Steiner's methods
 of spiritual agriculture.  http://www.kootenay.com/~aurora


 -Original Message-
 From: Doug  Jay Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:44 AM
 Subject: Re: Perfect Orchard - gelignite?


 What is gelignite?  How is it used? Where is it obtained?
 
 DS
 
 From: Peter Michael Bacchus [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:49:03 +1300
 
 If you really do need to loosen the subsoil mechanically I suggest that
 you
 look at
 gelignite,
 I have seen it used to good effect under trees that were stunted by hard
 pan. In this way the topsoil would remain on top.
 
 
 _
 STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

Re: Perfect Orchard

Hi Merla

Confusing stuff, can any one explain the difference in the calcium products
:

Lime,
Calcium
Prilled calcium
Gypsum,
I'm sure there is many more that I don't understand it's function , and when
are this Organic and accepted for DB farming ??

Per Garp/NH
- Original Message -
From: Merla Barberie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 03:34 PM
Subject: Re: Perfect Orchard




 Lloyd Charles wrote:
 . . .

   If you have low calcium soil, Lime is needed to restore the
  CEC balance and you will need a carbon source to hold and activate it.

 and later he wrote to Gil who had said, Calcium will come from the
application
 of gypsum.:

 And leave almost as quick as it came! LIME is the way to get good
calcium
 levels,

 When I was working with Hugh Courtney on test plots for the right-of-way,
one
 of his suggestions was to add high calcium lime.  I called around to all
the
 the feed stores that sell lime and asked for a high calcium lime.  None of
the
 salesmen knew what I was talking about.  They always sold dolomite and
they
 really didn't understand anything about lime so they left it to me to
choose.
 I chose hydrated lime, and they sold it to me.  The blind leading the
blind.
 Luckily, I only used it on two plots.

 Then when I got connected to someone who sold soil amendments for Bruce
Tainio,
 Tainio Technology and Technique, a soil scientist recommended by Elaine,
she
 gave me Calpril which is a prilled calcium carbonate 91`% and 1%
magnesium,
 whatever prilled means from a company in Tonasket, WA.  There's a series
of
 mesh sizes on the bag.  This one is probably overkill, but I was glad to
get
 something that was the right thing...

 When you suggest lime to someone, you need to be more specific about what
you
 mean.  Can you do a rundown of limes that are available and what they are
used
 for just to clarify what you mean when you say add lime?

 Best,

 Merla

Re: Radionics/ Broadcasters

Hi Gil,
Not particular lost, But need info, Have started all the reading, but time.
Never look on Homeopathy as a Energetic Healing. But I think it sounds
correct.
So have some one a simple description on the different instrument that are
active today ?
Do you who are/have developed the different broadcaster's a simple
description on the function of your instruments ?
And who sells them ?

Many Radionic Practitioners treat between hundreds to thousands of
individual broadcasts at a time. Please elaborate on this ?!
Thanks

Per Garp/NH

- Original Message -
From: Gil Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 05:59 PM
Subject: Radionics/ Broadcasters


 Hi! Per Garp

 I can understand you being lost. We all started there.

 Radionics is a particular area of study, within the much larger field of
 Energetic Healing.

 Energetic Healing includes Reiki, Reflexology, Accupressure, Aromatherapy,
 Dowsing, Flower Essences, Gem Essences, Homoeopathy, Tissue Salts,
Radiesthesia
 and many other studies.

 All of these look at an Organism as an energy body, rather than from a
chemical
 or physical stand point. Organism may be human, animal, insect, plant or
in the
 case of Agricultural Radionics, an area of land.

 Most of us on this list actually use both Radiesthesia and Radionics.

 Radionics is basically Radiesthesia with an instrument. Most of us use a
 pendulum to dowse our analysis of the organism, often also using a
Radionic
 Analysis Instrument. This is Radiesthesia. We then use one or several
Radionic
 Instruments. There are a huge number of different Radionic Instruments,
but only
 a few in common use.

 Radionic Instruments use a representation of the energy of an organism or
part
 of the organism. This may be a number, such as James referred to for
moisture. I
 think that may be a Drown Rate. She was an early key player in
Radionics. In
 Base 10 the Rate would be 0.28. In Base 44 we would use 19 08 30 33.
We
 could also use Water Circulation (in the soil) 323678 or 18 38 27 30.

 Most of us also use a Malcolm Rae Instrument or several. These use a small
card
 about the size of a small playing card, with a geometric shape with
represents
 the energy imprint. (The Base 44 is also a Rae instrument.)

 With these instruments, we are analysing what is needed and then making a
 Cure, which is very much like a homoeopathic and may be in a liquid or a
 tablet. This may be sprayed on a crop or Broadcast using some sort of
 broadcast instrument. Some Radionic Instruments are also broadcasters.
James is
 using a pyramid broadcaster he has developed. Hugh is ever developing his
Field
 Broadcaster. I am working on The Atlantian Bed as a broadcaster and can
be
 directly connected to a number of different types of Radionic Instruments.
I
 also have a number of other broadcasters, ranging from small and simple to
large
 and very complex.

 Just which instrument is used is dependant one the type of work and how
many
 treatments are done at a time. Many Radionic Practitioners treat between
 hundreds to thousands of individual broadcasts at a time. This requires
 dedicated rooms, a sizeable investment and relies on good record keeping.

 Hugh is leading the way with taking BD and delivering it as an energy
 application, allowing him to support an much larger amount of land than
could be
 done physically. It is this sort of work that in time has the potential to
take
 on the chemical industry and to offer a real alternative.

 Gil

Re: Perfect Orchard

HI all ,
This is my 3rd year going in to the 4, (Planing and implementing my Orchard
and refurbishing  our Barn) but perhaps my fingers will not work that long.
And they are hurting today as I got hit by a popping wood piece of ash as we
where splitting the wood for the winters heating.
I understand that I need to be an open minded person  that's why I like
wine.
I do still not comprehend what do this setup do,
field broadcaster is  not Radionics.

What is the function ??

Thanks
Per Garp/NH


- Original Message -
From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 05:48 PM
Subject: Re: Perfect Orchard



 - Original Message -
 From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:36 PM
 Subject: Re: Perfect Orchard


  Dear Hugh, Lloyd, Gil, Per Garp and others,
  Just to start the discussion rolling I agree that a field broadcaster is
 not
  Radionics. It is just one of the many tools available to try to
influence
  subtle energy or force fields.
 OK guys - if its not radionics, what is it? We use radionically prepared
 homeopathic reagents in it, we can use it to do many of the same things
that
 are done with a proper radionic instrument (broadcasting crows out of a
 paddock for example). I believe that the top well of a pipe could function
 as a radionic instrument does ie across time, space, unlimited distance.
Do
 we need to agree on tight definitions here? Radionics to me is scanning
 analysis and treatment using variable rate instruments such as the
Mattioda/
 Rogers. There is much more of radiesthesia involved in the English system,
 but there is a huge area of overlap in all subtle energies from the ormus
 minerals through instruments of various types to classical biodynamic
 agriculture, all of these are treading the same patch of ground.
 Subtle energy is a step by step process for the newcomer. example-
 Its relatively easy to get across to an open minded person that we can
take
 a polaroid photo of a field , animal, or whatever and capture the energy
 pattern on the metallic negative, then put that in the well of a radionic
 instrument and treat - the box has knobs and dials on , its ok for many
 people to go that far. Now tell that same person that we can use an old
 photo to treat a new problem and the eyes glaze a bit - we are into
science
 fiction - time travel here to the newcomer.
 Another problem we have is where does our reality end (results) and our
 imagination start (what was going to happen anyway)

 I look forward to an interesting christmas break - this discussion could
 last into january easy
 Cheers
 Lloyd Charles

Re: Perfect Orchard

2002-12-18 Thread Essie Hull

Per -
Visit Hugh Lovel's website: www.unionag.org for a good, thorough 
explanation and diagram of the construction of a field broadcaster.  If you 
want to come over and see my broadcaster, I'll be home more than I 
ordinarily am over the holidays and we could set something up after Christmas.
Essie


At 09:07 PM 12/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
HI all ,
This is my 3rd year going in to the 4, (Planing and implementing my Orchard
and refurbishing  our Barn) but perhaps my fingers will not work that long.
And they are hurting today as I got hit by a popping wood piece of ash as we
where splitting the wood for the winters heating.
I understand that I need to be an open minded person  that's why I like
wine.
I do still not comprehend what do this setup do,
field broadcaster is  not Radionics.

What is the function ??

Thanks
Per Garp/NH


- Original Message -
From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 05:48 PM
Subject: Re: Perfect Orchard



 - Original Message -
 From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:36 PM
 Subject: Re: Perfect Orchard


  Dear Hugh, Lloyd, Gil, Per Garp and others,
  Just to start the discussion rolling I agree that a field broadcaster is
 not
  Radionics. It is just one of the many tools available to try to
influence
  subtle energy or force fields.
 OK guys - if its not radionics, what is it? We use radionically prepared
 homeopathic reagents in it, we can use it to do many of the same things
that
 are done with a proper radionic instrument (broadcasting crows out of a
 paddock for example). I believe that the top well of a pipe could function
 as a radionic instrument does ie across time, space, unlimited distance.
Do
 we need to agree on tight definitions here? Radionics to me is scanning
 analysis and treatment using variable rate instruments such as the
Mattioda/
 Rogers. There is much more of radiesthesia involved in the English system,
 but there is a huge area of overlap in all subtle energies from the ormus
 minerals through instruments of various types to classical biodynamic
 agriculture, all of these are treading the same patch of ground.
 Subtle energy is a step by step process for the newcomer. example-
 Its relatively easy to get across to an open minded person that we can
take
 a polaroid photo of a field , animal, or whatever and capture the energy
 pattern on the metallic negative, then put that in the well of a radionic
 instrument and treat - the box has knobs and dials on , its ok for many
 people to go that far. Now tell that same person that we can use an old
 photo to treat a new problem and the eyes glaze a bit - we are into
science
 fiction - time travel here to the newcomer.
 Another problem we have is where does our reality end (results) and our
 imagination start (what was going to happen anyway)

 I look forward to an interesting christmas break - this discussion could
 last into january easy
 Cheers
 Lloyd Charles

Sierra Club info

I emailed Laurel and received this reply from her.


We are out of videos.
You can order one for $6.00.
You'll find out how by going to  
http://www.thecampaign.org
laurel

Re: Perfect Orchard

2002-12-18 Thread Lloyd Charles

- Original Message -
From: COYOTEHILLFARM [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Perfect Orchard

 Hi Merla

 Confusing stuff, can any one explain the difference in the calcium
products
 :

 Lime,
In America this seems to be a generic term with variable meaning so lets
divide it up into  :: High calcium lime which is Calcium Carbonate - this is
mined and crushed from the type of rock where you find underground Limestone
caves
:: Dolomitic Lime (or dolomite) which is a mixture of Calcium
Carbonate and Magnesium Carbonate

 Calcium
Refers to the metallic or elemental form - look in a dictionary or
scientific text

 Prilled calcium
Used to describe a re granulated form of high calcium lime - its treated
this way to make it easier to spread .

 Gypsum,
Calcium Sulfate - often refered to as 'clay breaker' in the store or garden
shop - mined from soft underground deposits in dry inland areas where old
lakebeds were - or obtained as a by product of concentrated phosphate
fertiliser manufacture - this form will likely have some heavy metal
contamination concentrated from the original source material (cadmium,
lead,) . Gypsum is the white stuff they make wallboard for your house. When
we use high rates of gypsum we are supplying a massive overdose of sulfate
sulfur .

 I'm sure there is many more that I don't understand it's function , and
when
 are this Organic and accepted for DB farming ??
Your organic certifier will have a list of accepted input materials

L Charles

FW: [globalnews] India¹s Water Wars

2002-12-18 Thread Jane Sherry

Title: FW: [globalnews] Indias Water Wars

(forgive me if I already forwarded this)

Indias Water Wars

By Srinand Jha, AlterNet
December 5, 2002

Muradnagar, Aug. 22: Armed with axes, hammers and sticks, thousands of farmers converged on this township in the north Indian state of Uttar Pradesh to prevent construction of the proposed water pipeline being laid to fetch additional waters from the river Ganges to the New Delhi-situated treatment plant operated by a subsidiary of water giant Suez Lyonnaise. Construction was put to a halt.

Plachimara, Aug. 4: On the 105th day of agitation, protestors attempted to force their way into a Coca-Cola factory in this South Indian state of Kerala with intent to destroying property. One hundred and thirty villagers were arrested in the ensuing police crackdown.

Kudus, September: Womens groups converged at this obscure hamlet in the Western Indian state of Maharashtra to call for a nation-wide campaign against the deprivation of precious water supplies to local communities by multinational corporations such as Coca-Cola.

Bhuvaneshwar, September: The peoples struggles against the privatization of essential services (including water and electricity) assumed a more focused approach at a meeting of participating non-governmental organizations at the capital of the federal state of Orissa. A roadmap of a sustained struggle against international funding agencies (including the World Bank and the UK's Department for International Development) was released at the conference.

If the above gives the impression that water-related struggles are erupting today in India, the thought is not wildly off the mark.

India, with 16 percent of the worlds population, 2.45 percent of the land mass and four percent of the worlds water resources, already has a grave water crisis. In 15 federal states, the underground water levels have been falling at rates ranging between five and seven percent, and some are expected to run dry as early as 2015 because of exploitation and misuse. Twelve major rivers in the country are designated as polluted (with untreated industrial and domestic waste and pesticide/fertilizer run off from farms), and hydrological experts say that there are no more freshwater sources to be found anywhere in India.

Corporations have estimated that the total global water market is U.S.$500 billion. The emerging water market in India is estimated to be over U.S.$2 billion (one-third for water provisioning, one-third for municipal water treatment and one-third for industrial water treatment).

In India, the market for business in pollution control equipment (currently about U.S.$8 billion annually) is estimated to be growing around 10-12 percent yearly and is anticipated to grow to approximately U.S.$13-14 billion by the year 2005. The bottled industry market is growing at a whopping rate of 55 percent annually and is expected to cross the 1000 crore rupee mark (over U.S.$200 million) within the next two years.

Two years ago, when 62-year-old Kesri Singh, a former advocate of Indias Supreme Court, decided to come out of retirement to launch the Dehat Morcha (a forum to fight water privatization), a great deal had happened: global water giants (Vivendi, Swez Lyonnaise and Saur of France; RWE/Thames Water of Germany and the UK; Bechtel of the UK and Enron from the U.S.) had established a firm presence in the country and were negotiating agreements facilitating privatization of water utilities in 20 cities spread over several federal states. Community struggles had also been gathering momentum against Coca-Cola and its bottling plants, and passions were running high against policies that permitted global corporations to rake in profits, while the common people were robbed of the sacred and natural resource of water.

Kesri Singh hoped to prevent the federal government from going through with its plans to construct a pipeline through the Western Uttar Pradesh region (for fetching additional waters to a transmission plant at New Delhi managed by the French company Ondeo Degramont).

The region, Indias most fertile and prosperous farming area, had already been declared a gray zone on account of falling water levels, and farmers had been prohibited from digging additional tubewells. Kesri Singh arrived at the view that the federal governments plans to lay a concrete pipeline would prevent the recharge of the groundwater and ultimately lead to the desertification of the region; he could barely figure out why the Coca-Cola factory in the region was being allowed to draw about 200 cusecs (about 200 cubic feet) of water each day when women in some villages were having to trudge between seven to 10 kilometers to fetch one pail of water.

Kesri Singh was born and raised in Western Uttar Pradesh, and he felt the time had come for him to repay his gratitude to the community. He set up the Dehat Morcha in early 2000, and has never looked back. This year on Aug. 9, the Dehat Morcha sent

FW: [globalnews] Bolivia's Water War

2002-12-18 Thread Jane Sherry

Title: FW: [globalnews] Bolivia's Water War

LATIN AMERICA

Bolivia

Troubled waters
Dec 12th 2002 | LA PAZ
>From The Economist print edition

Another war over natural resources

Get article background

ON PAPER, the plan seemed logical enough. In aquifers deep beneath Bolivia's dirt-poor department of Potosi, lies a lot of water. To the west, across the Andean watershed, is the Atacama desert, one of the world's driest places and home to several of Chile's large and thirsty copper mines. So someone in the government of President Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada drafted a decree that would allow owners of mining concessions to extract the water and export it to Chile.

Whoever it was should really have thought harder. There are few touchier subjects in Bolivia than water (scarce in much of the country) and relations with Chile (still hated for grabbing much of the Atacama in a 19th century war).

After the plan, er, leaked, Indian community leaders from Potosi met last month in the town of Uyuni to plan resistance. For them, the idea of exporting water is an insult. Surplus water should be used for irrigation, says Omar Fernandez, a farmer who is campaigning against the plan. If anyone comes to drill wells here, we will set them on fire, shouted others.

They claim the plan would hurt tourism. The Uyuni area is studded with volcanoes, hot springs, lagoons and bright white salt flats. Its wildlife includes rare cameloids, ostrich and flamingos. With 60,000 tourists a year, it is Bolivia's second most-visited region after Lake Titicaca. Opponents also say that the government has not carried out any studies to find out if the Potosi aquifers would replenish themselves. The government at first said that water exporters should pay for a study; now it is to ask aid donors.

Ever since the Spaniards discovered silver at Potosi, Bolivia has lived by exporting natural resources. But most Bolivians have lived badly. As a result, they are deeply suspicious of projects that seem to involve private profit from public goods. In 2000, mobs forced the cancellation of a concession granted to a group led by Bechtel, an American construction firm, to run the water industry in Cochabamba, Bolivia's third city. The result: the better-off waste subsidised water, much-needed investment to increase supply has been shelved, and Bechtel wants $25m compensation. Similarly, popular hatred of Chile has stalled a plan to build a pipeline to export gas from large new deposits.

A chastened government has put the water decree in the deep freeze, according to a spokesman. Perhaps the real lesson is that the government needs to put far more effort into debating with Bolivians how their country can cease to be poor.

-- To change the outside world, we must first change ourselves.
To change our outer lives, we must first change our inner world.

Re: Perfect Orchard-Calcium

Dear friends -

Does anyone know of anyone who has 'applied lime' using the Kolisko approach?

If so, can you comment on the effect(s)?

Thanks

_Allan

color / param sorry

Sorry for all the html looking quote signals. I never know how my 
emailer is going to pick up and send my quoted lines, luckily they 
weren't too many.

Unsubcribe

2002-12-18 Thread John Buckley




Will be back later . 
Thanks

John 
Buckley

Re: sealant for cut tree limb?

2002-12-18 Thread laura_s

I know there are many thoughts on this including using BD tree paste. I
prune over 15,000 vines in a season so just not possible. In referring to
Maria Thun's calendar she recommends Dec 20 after 19 h until the  30th as
suitable for cutting vines. These are planting days when the sap is pulled
down. Sorry I can't help with January as I don't have next year's calendar
yet !

Laura Sabourin
Feast of Fields Inc
Demeter Certified Vineyard  Farm  http://www.ragdolls.net/vineyard.htm
Ragenesque Ragdoll Cattery http://www.ragdolls.net/ragenesq.htm
R R # 1
St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7

Dormant Oil and Lime Sulfur vs. CT and Pfeiffer's clay/manure mixture

2002-12-18 Thread Merla Barberie

I am trying to make our place more Bio-Dynamic and better in every way
that I can.  I could just ask the above question, but it's more fun to
tell it as a story...

My husband doesn't believe in Bio-Dynamics, but he has given in a lot
over the years and I try to involve him in every way I can.  He makes
the holes when I inoculate the compost pile with the preps and he dug
the holes for the horns.  Over the years he has conceded to do things by
the calendar.  He does everything in the orchard, but I want to upgrade
our orchard practice.

We are nature lovers.  We prefer nature rather than the look of a farm.
Our cabin is surrounded by the most beautiful stand of snowberries and
Oregon grape that have been outstanding through this long fall we have
had up to now.  When the heavy snow comes, they are mashed down under
the snow.

The orchard is on a wild meadow.  We did not plow the whole acre.  We
merely dug big holes and put compost in them.  We've had this orchard
for 15 years.  The orchard contains wild grasses, lots of St. Johnswort,
pearly everlasting, red clover, serviceberry, some wild shrubs that I
can't name and other wild plants.  Herb cuts down any softwood tree
seedlings that appear, but the two vine maple shrubs only gets bigger
when you cut them down.  We mow around the fruit trees and put straw
around them.  We've never fertilized.  I put tree paste on some trees
that had lichen on them.  We have 40 heritage apples--pears, plums,
cherries, buartnuts, walnuts, filberts, oaks (I wanted more walnuts, but
Herb wanted oaks and they are infinitesimal.)  We have 24 boxes of
apples in the root cellar now and they are delicious.  The heritage
apple trees bear every other year.  Really, our orchard needs help
though.

I will have lots of BC and 500 this year.  I am planning to put some
around the drip line of the trees.  I also read with interest the BD Now
email about Pfeiffer clay/manure/sand...clay/manure spray...tree
paste...and asked on the compost_tea list/serve about CT sprays for tent
caterpillars and cedar apple rust rather than using dormant oil and lime
sulfur.  Elaine suggested Beauveria (Mycotrol) and SP-1 bacterial
inoculum from Agri-Energy or the beneficial spore-former inoculum from
Holmes Environmental.

Now, of course, I have brought all this up to my husband and his
response is What's wrong with dormant oil and dormant oil   lime
sulfur?  All I can say is that I want to be more Bio-Dynamic.  Can
someone tell me what exactly is wrong with dormant oil and/or dormant
oil and lime sulfur so I can make a good case for his changing his
practice?  He is mainly a hunter and a wooden boat builder, not a
farmer, but he has the pride of traditional manhood that I dare not
insult.  I need his labor and want him to continue taking the
responsibility for the orchard.  He has a lot of other good qualities
even though he isn't a BD farmer.  If he gets mad and gives up the
orchard, I can't do as well as he's done without the Bio-Dynamics.  I
can't bear to prune and he is an excellent harvester.  I plan the garden
and initiate most things, raise and plant the seedlings for the garden
and do all the Bio-Dynamics.  I have a wonderful garden helper who is
much better than I am--a virgo, who prepares the garden beds and does
the three cold frames for our 150 tomato plants.  Yes, I am a
traditional Southern female who is transplanted to the West and I am
lucky to have such good help.

Thanks a bunch,

Merla

BD Olive and Beef Operation in OZ

A transcript of a tv interview with the celebrity owners of a 
Podolinsky advised BD Olive and Beef operation can be found at:

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/transcripts/s377105.htm

Re: Perfect Orchard-Calcium

2002-12-18 Thread Lloyd Charles

- Original Message -
From: Chris Shade [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 4:34 AM
Subject: Re: Perfect Orchard-Calcium

Chris  Allan et al.,

. With cal nitrate , Ca(NO3)2, you are applying
 two nitrates for every calcium, so if you used alot,
 you would soon be a chemical fertilizer.
Exactly correct!
Dont want you all to get the idea that I am pushing for Calcium Nitrate to
be on the organic input list - we use it - non certified - get great
results - BUT I expect that our soils will progress to the stage that it
becomes unneccessary - there are probably other ways of doing the same thing
organically - but when I go visit organic grain farms I often see a whole
bunch of the same weeds, strangling the crop and ruining the yield, that I
can easily get rid of using this material. And again I dont use much - 2
pounds to the acre in an application - I'm sure there would be organically
acceptable alternatives that dont have the disadvantage? of nitrate
attached. What is happening in the soil system is far more important here
than the actual material used to make it happen!
Cheers
Lloyd Charles

Re: sealant for cut tree limb?

2002-12-18 Thread Gil Robertson

Hi! Tony,
I have little Walnut experience as an adult as I live out side the range they
do.

I came from a wet, cold area, which was good for growing them, but not good for
grafting them, as they bleed as you have found.

I have been told that the most successful nursery was in a very windy gully on
the edge of the range that had huge gully winds (gales) many nights. They made
the cut on a steep angle to aid drainage and faced the cut to the wind. They
support the graft with splints and get a good result. They also work but the
calendar to have the sap down at the time. So if planting new trees, look for
the windiest part of the property and be aware of positioning the cut surfaces
to catch the wind.

Gil

Tony Nelson-Smith wrote:

 it is my
 understanding that sealers are out of vogue and that properly done pruning
 cuts should be left un-dressed.

 Allan - What do you recommend for such trees as walnut, where the stump of a
 cut limb may weep copiously for a week or more?  Sealant won't stick,
 charring doesn't work (in spite of my advice to Lily!) and sap seeps out
 even from the most tightly taped plastic covering.  It can't be good for the
 tree, especially as the leaking sap encourages moulds, but one occasionally
 has to trim a branch or tidy up a break.   Tony N-S.

 _
 MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Re: PLEASE, don't think that that is all you can do


I'll point out that the is mounting evidence (that should have been 
collected in the first place) that both Canola and soy are 
detrimental to human  animal heath.

Sorry, M, I was too busy looking at the forest to see the trees.

Even if you don't give a hoot for canola or soy as foods - - and, 
properly handled, soy is an excellent food for humans - - please open 
your heart to the harm that organic farmers are experiencing through 
Monsanto's carelessness and their power.

It is my understanding that Monsanto is rolling out (no pun) GM wheat 
this coming seaon in Canada and the  Mid-West.

I guess it comes as no surprise to anyone but me, but GM genes are 
dominant genes (it wouldn't make sense otherwise, would it?) so 
anything that get GM genes gets the intended GM effect.

Re: Perfect Orchard-Calcium

Lloyd -

Remind me: how do you get the calcium nitrate down? What are your rates?

How would you modify this if you were working in a garden?

Thanks

-Allan

Re: Dormant Oil and Lime Sulfur vs. CT and Pfeiffer's clay/manure mixture

2002-12-18 Thread Aurora Farm

Merla:

The short answer is that Dormant Oil and Lime Sulfur doesn't FEED the tree.
BD Tree Paste does.  Here's an excerpt from my article on trees at Aurora
Farm, which can be read in full at
http://www.kootenay.com/~aurora/trees.html

In Lecture Seven of the Agriculture Course, Rudolf Steiner sails forth with
one of those astounding insights that makes the reader gasp: the only part
of the tree that is plant-like are the small branches that bear leaves,
flowers and fruit.  The great mass of trunk and large limbs is really
mounded-up soil, soil that is simply in a more living condition than the
soil in which our herbaceous plants and grains are growing. 2)

 The plant-like parts are rooted in the twigs and branches of the tree just
as other plants are rooted in the Earth.

 Thus, in Biodynamic practice, we fertilize and cultivate the tree trunk,
that mounded-up, much enlivened soil.

Ehrenfried Pfeiffer says:

  For the treatment of tree trunks, especially to keep
  the bark smooth, to protect it from splitting and to
  heal any injuries, the trees should have once a year,
  during winter, a coating of sticky fluid paste, up to
  the lightest branches.  This paste consists of equal
  parts of clay, cow manure, and sand.  Herr M. K
  Schwarz tells us that this coat prevents the sap from'
  rising too soon and thus wards off danger from frosts. 3)

Pfeiffer goes on to say that he has modified this recipe by adding BD#500
(horn manure) preparation and BD#508 (equisetum);  also, as remedies, he
recommends
an extract of oak bark (disinfection and preventing pests from breeding),
extract of nasturtium (American blight), extract of calendula (injuries).
He also suggests a routine washing and brushing of tree with BD#508 in
autumn or winter.

 Two other variations:

Hugh Courtney:

6-9 parts betonite
2-3 parts BD Compound preparation (Barrel Compost)
2-4 units BD#500
1 part rock dust
small amount of linseed or castor oil
BD#508, fermented, enough to make the paste liquid for brushing or spraying

Ferdinand Vondruska:

1/3 Clay, 1/3 Cow manure, 1/6 milk and 1/6 silica (or waterglass).

'The above  mix thinly applied (spring and fall) to fruit trees, bushes,
roses etc. does work wonders and rejuvenates them within two years
(Forest trees appear not to respond in the same way, I found) Perhaps
hazel, beech and similar trees may do so.

Woody
Aurora Farm. the only
unsubsidized, family-run seed farm
in North America offering garden seeds
grown using Rudolf Steiner's methods
of spiritual agriculture.  http://www.kootenay.com/~aurora


-Original Message-
From: Merla Barberie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: BD Now [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 12:29 PM
Subject: Dormant Oil and Lime Sulfur vs. CT and Pfeiffer's clay/manure
mixture


I am trying to make our place more Bio-Dynamic and better in every way
that I can.  I could just ask the above question, but it's more fun to
tell it as a story...

My husband doesn't believe in Bio-Dynamics, but he has given in a lot
over the years and I try to involve him in every way I can.  He makes
the holes when I inoculate the compost pile with the preps and he dug
the holes for the horns.  Over the years he has conceded to do things by
the calendar.  He does everything in the orchard, but I want to upgrade
our orchard practice.

We are nature lovers.  We prefer nature rather than the look of a farm.
Our cabin is surrounded by the most beautiful stand of snowberries and
Oregon grape that have been outstanding through this long fall we have
had up to now.  When the heavy snow comes, they are mashed down under
the snow.

The orchard is on a wild meadow.  We did not plow the whole acre.  We
merely dug big holes and put compost in them.  We've had this orchard
for 15 years.  The orchard contains wild grasses, lots of St. Johnswort,
pearly everlasting, red clover, serviceberry, some wild shrubs that I
can't name and other wild plants.  Herb cuts down any softwood tree
seedlings that appear, but the two vine maple shrubs only gets bigger
when you cut them down.  We mow around the fruit trees and put straw
around them.  We've never fertilized.  I put tree paste on some trees
that had lichen on them.  We have 40 heritage apples--pears, plums,
cherries, buartnuts, walnuts, filberts, oaks (I wanted more walnuts, but
Herb wanted oaks and they are infinitesimal.)  We have 24 boxes of
apples in the root cellar now and they are delicious.  The heritage
apple trees bear every other year.  Really, our orchard needs help
though.

I will have lots of BC and 500 this year.  I am planning to put some
around the drip line of the trees.  I also read with interest the BD Now
email about Pfeiffer clay/manure/sand...clay/manure spray...tree
paste...and asked on the compost_tea list/serve about CT sprays for tent
caterpillars and cedar apple rust rather than using dormant oil and lime
sulfur.  Elaine suggested Beauveria (Mycotrol) and SP-1 bacterial
inoculum from Agri-Energy or the

Re: Perfect Orchard-Calcium

2002-12-18 Thread Lloyd Charles


- Original Message -
From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Perfect Orchard-Calcium


 Lloyd -

 Remind me: how do you get the calcium nitrate down? What are your rates?

 How would you modify this if you were working in a garden?

 Thanks

 -Allan
 Phil Wheelers book recommends 2pounds cal nitrate and 2 gal molasses per
acre to deter weeds - application as a surface spray within 24 hours of
seeding - soil disturbance - I use much less molasses, as I am only using
50lt per hectare total volume.
Later as a foliar spray its a pure growth energy and I use the refractometer
to check for beneficial results (or not) . Calcium nitrate is difficult to
mix with many of the normal organic materials (kelp etc) so you need to do
bottle tests for compatability.

SAY NO

Thank you all!!
Because of a link someone provided on this group, I stumbled upon 
a great source. (and local to me, too!!)
www.saynotogmos.org

And one of the folk there sent me this very nice letter in response 
to one I'd sent to Laurel (Sierra Club). 
The tapes seem very reasonable, I think $8 for individuals and a 
huge markdown in quantities. 

Greetings from Bastrop county!  Nice to meet you!!

Laurel did a huge mailing through Sierra Club when we 
first put the
video
together but she is not really involved with it any more.

I can have as many copied as BDNOW needs.  At 50 -
100 the price is $3.00
each plus shipping.  Less than 50 would be a bit more.  
Let me know and
I'll
arrange everything.

Is BDNOW a forum board or private discussion?  I am 
not biodynamic but
do
garden organically. Everything looks so beautiful this 
time of year.  A
feast of greens!!!

If you have an HEB near you, you might consider getting 
involved in the
HEB
Campaign.  There is a sample letter on the site.  We will 
be meeting
with
them again in January and want to get as many letters 
as possible sent
by
then.

Do keep in touch.

Candace

(I'm including her email here: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

apologizing before the fact

If my last message is 'warbley', I'm apologizing now. I assume that 
when I pick up a thread from a prior email, it's going to get all 
discombobulated in the translation. That one, I felt was worth the 
nasty look I'll probably get from Allan G.

Re: Perfect Orchard-Calcium

2002-12-18 Thread RH

12/18/2002 10:21:55 AM, Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Do you have contact info on this 
Phil Wheeler?

Dr. Phil Wheeler can be contacted at Crop Services International Inc., 1718 
Madison S.E., Grand Rapids, Michigan 49507-2518, phone (616) 246-7933, fax 
(616) 246-6039, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], website 
www.cropservicesintl.com.

As far as calcium goes, I want to add that Dr. Arden Andersen preaches mightily 
that it should be added in fertilizer quantities.  If you'll check 5 Acres  
Independence, you'll find a chart that shows that even in well-kept land a 
year's worth of rainfall will leach away about 500 pounds of your finest lime.  
Althought this becomes much less true as you move the organic matter content up 
to 5%, Andersen still teaches that you should spread a little each year to grow 
the finest crops.  

I think all the brix hierarchy teaches that calcium should always be encouraged 
even as potassium is discouraged.  This seems, at least to me, to tie in 100% 
with Albrecht's teachings that the soils of the humid east produce woody 
carbohydrates whereas those of the arid west produce high quality proteins. 
The little professor knew that we in the east need some hi-cal added until we 
get that good balance that occurred naturally in the corn belt.  

I interpret this (optomistically) to mean that once you get your soil in good 
Albrecht balance (i.e., 70% calcium), you should be able to keep it there with 
just a little hi-cal lime each year---probably best mixed in with your compost.  

On the other hand, there are those who insist that as you get the microbes 
working better in any given soil, they will start chewing on those bigger 
chunks of lime and break down what is needed to replenish what is leached away.  
I guess there are many answers.  Liquid Cal can often be just the ticket, at 
least temporarily, when you're working a dead piece of ground.

A problem, of course, is what Lloyd Charles warned about: somebody, somewhere, 
will use 10---or a 100---times more than is needed and create a whole new cycle 
of soil  plant indigestion.  I was so pleased a month or so ago when he went 
through the process of explaining how to use a refractometer to let the plants 
talk to their farmer.  That is the true test of how much is enough.  What we 
calculate as a needed addition means dip-squat when the brix stays the same or, 
ugh, drops. 

PS Let me know if you want to 
borrow any tapes from ACRES this year

Sounds like a treat to me.  Thanks...

Regards,
Rex Harrill

Re: sealant for cut tree limb?

2002-12-18 Thread Cheryl Kemp

Did you prune in the descending Moon period?  If not, you may have to wait
for that time to come up to slow sap flow.

Cheryl Kemp
Education and Workshop Coordinator
Biodynamic AgriCulture Australia
Phone /Fax : 02 6657 5322
Home: 02 6657 5306
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.biodynamics.net.au

- Original Message -
From: Tony Nelson-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 3:40 AM
Subject: Re: sealant for cut tree limb?


 it is my
 understanding that sealers are out of vogue and that properly done
pruning
 cuts should be left un-dressed.

 Allan - What do you recommend for such trees as walnut, where the stump of
a
 cut limb may weep copiously for a week or more?  Sealant won't stick,
 charring doesn't work (in spite of my advice to Lily!) and sap seeps out
 even from the most tightly taped plastic covering.  It can't be good for
the
 tree, especially as the leaking sap encourages moulds, but one
occasionally
 has to trim a branch or tidy up a break.   Tony N-S.

 _
 MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

RES: BDNOW digest 1341

2002-12-18 Thread Jose Luiz M Garcia

Hi Allan,

I am getting all the mails in Mime Version which 
makes it very difficult to read the messages.
Do you know the reason ?

jose

Re: PLEASE, don't think that that is all you can do

2002-12-18 Thread Gil Robertson

Allan Balliett wrote:
Even if you don't give a hoot for canola or soy as foods - - and,
properly handled, soy is an excellent food for humans - - please open
your heart to the harm that organic farmers are experiencing through
Monsanto's carelessness and their power.

Sorry Allan, but if you do your research, you will find that neither
canola or soy are suitable a foods for humans. Collectively they
contribute a wide range of disease and disability. We can handle small
amounts but not if we have them in so many processed foods and the likes
of margarine, which in turn, are included in so many processed foods, we
soon get a massive overload.

I work in the area of food allergy/ food intolerance and these are things
that if removed, in every form from effected people's diet, will make
large and often life altering changes.

I try to eat zero canola and soy, as they are included in so many
processed foods.

Gil

Re: PLEASE, don't think that that is all you can do

Sorry Allan, but if you do your research

Re: PLEASE, don't think that that is all you can do