Re: Fwd: Prep 500 and 501 effects
Glen, I look forward eagerly to discussion with you as e-mail is entirely too inadequate. Hugh Hugh The main reference we need to refer to is the diagram in lec 8- pg 155 I think. >From what you have said below you have what RS is saying re Cosmic and Earthly nutrition streams in humans which is a 4 fold story. With plants though you keep telling a 3 fold story. So apply your 4 fold understanding of humans to plants Double Head forces = below ground Double Metabolic system = above ground. Dear Glen, I'm sure I still don't have it straight. I'm very visual in my thinking, meaning I want to picture things unfolding in my mind so I can see the processes unfolding and be able to cite examples everyone can relate to in everyday experience. It leaves me in limbo to say 'double head forces' and only works when I can say WHAT double head forces, as in carrot or turnip and ant or earthworm and what these DO. For example, watch ants living on Florida sugar sand and you'll see they delve down and mine clay, bringing it up to the surface where it is so badly needed to serve as the intermediary between the silica forces rising out of the earth and the nutrient uptake by the plant that the silica forces provide the pressure but not the connection for. Clay provides the connection (though not the pressure) and on those soils where there's 60 feet of sand before you hit the limestone below, perennial peanut needs this clay to connect with the lime below and bring it up. With all that sand there's plenty of pressure, but the lime's deep down. The peanut gets there with its tap root (which takes it 3 or 4 years to delve that deep, but once it does--step back!) but it needs a bit of clay to do so. Ants go down and search out the clay (there usually is little enough down there) and bring it up so the peanut can catch on a lot better. Once the peanut gets to the lime, the soil it's in (pH 5.2, CEC 2) will improve of itself with rotational graizing and you'll see that sugar sand colour up with grey/browns and the pH and CEC will climb as the plant pulls carbon in from the atmosphere and feeds it to the soil, while the soil pulls nitrogen in and feeds it to the plant. The cow eats the peanut forage and digests the carbon and nitrogen, feeding the carbon back to the air and the nitrogen back to the soil. Now let's take this example and go through it tagging all the little components of the process with earthly forces, cosmic forces, earthly substances, cosmic substances. For example, nitrogen feeds/builds the human head and its activities, so it must come from the soil. Oxygen feeds/builds the limbs and their activities so it must come from the air. That is because--as Steiner so cogently pointed out--we must develop our head organization out of what we take in from eating (earthly, below ground stuff like lime, phosphorus, nitrogen), while we develop our limbs and metabolic system out of what we take in by breathing (cosmic, above ground stuff like oxygen, carbon, sliica). If we break everything down like this I believe it will be a lot clearer from tieing it in to real/life examples like the ant, earthworm; perennial peanut, cow; silica, clay and lime, etc. Sorry, but I never seem to get there by way of these soaring abstractions that are free and clear of any examples and any real-life, gutsy, look-at-this stuff. I have to tie it into the things in nature I can point to as examples. I'm always amazed by anyone who can grasp these things as purely abstract principles and yet never seems to come up with the example-after-example thing. Hell, everything in nature is an example. I really must get to the endless examples immediately or there's nothing to ground my thinking and it sails off into la-la land like nitrogen in the atmosphere. I need some lime in my thinking to drag nitrogen into my head organization and light up my conscious thinking. Best, Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.net ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Fwd: Prep 500 and 501 effects
Hugh Now let's take this example and go through it tagging all the little components of the process with "earthly forces, cosmic forces, earthly substances, cosmic substances." For example, nitrogen feeds/builds the human head and its activities, so it must come from the soil. So we have to look for the substances and forces coming from the head / soil as a double process not a single one What is Silica coming upwards and what is Calcium coming upwards??? Physically we have all sorts of Cations - Ca Mg Na K etcthese are diamagnetic elements and therefore can be seen as part of the Earthly substance. WE thenhave anions in N, P, S etc as well as paramagnetic elements which would be seen as the physical Si or Cosmic force elements Energetically we have forces coming from the Earth upwards too The "Cosmic forces" / outer planet 1 forces are those that carry the archetype of the the plant upwards, in doing so they thrust the plant upwards and work on the strength of the cell wall and the basis for the silica structures of the plant The "Earthly substance' activity are the calcium process inner planet 2,that are active in germination and cell division ie the number of cell devided, and physically are concerned with the development of amount and quality of the tissue structure in the plant. The quality of this Earthly Substance / Calcium process working in with the cosmic foces / Siprocess determines the structural quality of any plant as it grows into space. We off course can talk about how if the Cosmic Forces dominate we get tap roots, if the Earthly substance dominates we get the ramified roots and so on. If the Cosmic Forces do not move upwards as they should then the stalks are weak, there is no archetypal impulse for the atmospheric Silica / Earthly forces to hook on to to allow for flowering, let alone seed formation or for fruit to blow out. If the Earthly substance /Earthly Ca is not active then the plant tissues are weak, undernourished and therefore break down and rot easily. This is the rot of Ca in fungal control. Cell division is not great and so the fruit does not have many cells to be filled out by the mass devlopment of the Atmospheric Ca / cosmic substance. Oxygen feeds/builds the limbs and their activities so it must come from the air. That is because--as Steiner so cogently pointed out--we must develop our head organization out of what we take in from eating (earthly, below ground stuff like lime, phosphorus, nitrogen), while we develop our limbs and metabolic system out of what we take in by breathing (cosmic, above ground stuff like oxygen, carbon, sliica). So in the above ground limbs, where is this a two fold process The Oxygen with its inherenet association to the etheric body provide at least a partial hint. In the metabolism we need to look for theCosmic substance and Earthly forces. The Oxygen you mention as the the mass developer coming from our breathing, is the homeopathic calcium RS mentions in the atmosphere, which does the same thing. This is all the plant potentised 'susbstance' that the plant has exuded out into the atmosphere via transpiration. Callum Coates so eloquently describes this process in 'Living Water'on pg 220?? or there abouts when he talks about the flow of water through the plant. He describes how the water comes to the soil with its atmosphereic N, exchanges this for cations which are taken up into the plant. As the water spirals thru the ever decreasing 'veins'of the plant, the elements are taken out of the water while in turn the water is potentised via the vacuums created by the spiralling. Hence the water then carrys the activity of the substances it once carried. This is transpired into the atmosphere, hence becoming part of the World Etheric activity carried in the atmospheric moisture we experience asdew. It is then drawn into the plant again boththrough the stomata and also directly by the plants 'personal etheric body',This is the Cosmic Substance / Calcium process and by itself develops MASS. Left to itself it creates emorphous 'fat' forms. I have a 50 meter long row of lettuces, with each 3 meters sprayed with a different homeopathic substance. When you visit I will show you the ones sprayed with the Cosmic Substance elements and you can see for your self, what I mean. They look like they have been over done with Nitrogen except they are not blue green. They tend to a light green colour and no flavour. The etheric body is maxed out. If the atmospheric cosmic substance is not active fruit does not swell through cells filling out The Earthly Forces work in the atmospheric Silica which are primarily active in the light and warmth of the environment. The light and warmth are needed to bake the Si and Ca coming from below and the Ca from the atmosphere into a plant that will be lifted up into seed formation and nutrition. Without this light and warmth of the atmosphere
Re: Fwd: Prep 500 and 501 effects
Dear Glen, et. al., Talk about confusing! Glen, you refer to your chart with the four levels on it. I've lost my copy and can't put my hands on it. So I don't get very far in that direction. And if I'm not getting it, I wonder how many others are. I find I have to look for concrete examples of these things, such as cosmic silica and earthly silica; cosmic lime and earthly lime. Such things as the earthly lime in the cranium is what anchors and encloses the cosmic silica alight in the brain. Or, rather the cosmic silica conducts the nerve impulses in the brain and down the spinal column, and it is the phosphorus that lights it up and the nitrogen that provides consciousness. But then we have lime in the muscles that must be there for the muscles to relax and silica in the hair and nails that form our furthest contact with the world around us. Isn't that cosmic lime in the muscles? Or maybe not. Maybe it too is earthly lime as it must meet the cosmic silica stream from the brain in the muscles. Maybe the cosmic lime is all in the digestion and then where is the earthly silica? There is silica in the air around us and it forms most of the finest dust particles in the air. I want to be able to point to the quartz rocks in my garden as earthly silica and then, since the silica in the air is derived from the upwelling silica from within the earth, isn't it too, earthly silica? Doesn't it become cosmic silica when it is taken up by a plant such as wheat, corn or bamboo shoots and ingested, digested, circulated in the blood until it becomes hardened and mineralized again such as in the hair or fingernails? Surely cosmic and earthly lime and silica switch back from one polarity to the other depending on how they are functioning. Or do they? I can't deal with all these abstractions and never a concrete example. Very, very confusing indeed. Can you help clear up this muddle for me? I know we build muscles by breathing, so I thought that would be the cosmic lime function. But we stabilize and anchor our thinking with that good old mineralized lime in our bony heads, eh? Best, Hugh Lovel Visit our website at: www.unionag.net ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Fwd: Prep 500 and 501 effects
Dave, Here is some attempt at response. Terribly time consuming. Hope I see you in NZ in July. I'd like to forward this discussion to BDnow to see if I can stimulate any further comments. Hugh Lovel (one l on the end) Hugh-- Gill asked me to forward this request to you, their server isn't connecting. Take care. = From: gill cole [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 'Dave Robison' [EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 'Hugh Lovell' [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: 'Peter Michael Bacchus' [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Prep 500 and 501 effects Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 10:35:10 +1200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal Dear Hugh and Dave My partner, Peter Bacchus passed on your email addresses and recommended that I write and ask for your comments on my attempts to understand the calcium and silica processes in plants in relation to plant physical physiological processes. Dear Gill, The best I can do is give you my observations. I can't see how you might be applying the various BD remedies and the timing of each or the proximity of spraying the 500 and 501. These factors make a big difference, and each individual case is different with the plot's past history, present soil fertility, light availability (season), etc. all affecting the plant. For instance planting lettuce in fall it will not bloom, while in spring it races toward bloom. I am writing up my Masters thesis on the subject of the effect of the biodynamic field sprays on nutritional quality of lettuces and would value your assistance with trying to explain what's going on. I have been on BDNow sometimes and have found your postings helpful, but have missed a lot of them, so have probably missed a lot of what you have said on the subject. Here are some questions I have in trying to understand Calcium and Silica processes, 500 and 501 based on agriculture course, Koliskos, Lievegood, Atkinson, Pfeiffer, Remer. I grew lettuces with and without fieldsprays, and in a second trial, with and without 501 (all had 500) My particular interest has been to try to show that 501 changes metabolism in leaves, leading to changed root exudates, which affect mycorrhizal and soil microbe activity but I havnt found a way to show that. 1 How does the 501 spray affect nutritional quality of plants? Can it be demonstrated and explained in terms of physical chemical and physiological plant processes? What kind of nutrition are you looking for? What the 501 does is it enhances the plant's silica relationships. It stimulates photosynthesis, blossoming fruiting and ripening. Insofar as it enhances photosynthesis it depends on soil fertility and its uptake by the plant. Photosynthesis is mostly a lime (in this case magnesium) process, though it involves phosphorus to shunt the energy off into the carbon/water chemistry. A rich calcium uptake holds onto the energy once stored in the carbon structure, but if calcium is low the energy tends to leak away. But you must know that the lime process is involved because for the most part the leaves spread out on the horizontal, and lime works on the horizontal, silica on the vertical. So for maximizing photosynthesis both horn manure and horn clay should be involved in the process. Horn manure improves the plant's relationship with the nitrogen fixing microbes in the soil and the protozoans that eat them and supply the plant its nitrogen as amino acids. The horn clay improves the plant's relationship with mycorrhyzal fungi that unlock the calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, potassium, etc. and assure the nutritional uptake of the plant is abundant and balanced. And the horn silica then does a better job of photosynthesis and the horn clay takes the sugars and transports them more vigorously to the roots so they feed the microbes as root exudates better. Horn clay mediates between the horn manure and horn silica. So not much is going to happen if you spray the horn silica by itself. You'll throw things off down the road to ripeness, period. It will be worst in a clay soil of low fertility, but not much better in a sandy soil despite the tendency in sand to hold the silica forces back a bit. The plant will get more out of light, its leaf nodes will be shorter, its leaves narrower and its growth more vertical. It will blossom and make seed sooner and be a small plant in general. But if the spray sequence were 1st evening horn manure, next morning horn silica followed by horn clay in the early afternoon you would get balanced growth with all the plant's activities tuned up. I suspect this is where you would get the most of what you are thinking of as nutrition. This process will be favored in a soil with rich microbial activity which is well balanced between bacteria and fungi but is low in soluble nitrogen and phosphorus. In other words you will need good symbiosis between the plant and the soil microbes, particularly, on the bacterial side, the azotobacters, which live off the plant's root
Re: Fwd: Prep 500 and 501 effects
To whom it may be of a concern GA I ve found Lievegood and Glen Atkinson s concepts of primary and secondary processes helpful, but still find it hard to sort out what s happening.The primary cosmic silica forces from the outer planets work down into plants (enhanced by 501?) and into the soil, are held by silicate rocks in the earth, then clay facilitates their uptake into the plant by the Secondary Si process, giving form and pulling the plant upwards how? through activating auxins ? The primary (I would have said earthly) silica forces of the outer planets work upward from deep within the earth, and yes, they are enhanced by 501. I would have said the secondary (cosmic) silica forces (still of the outer planets) work downward from the atmosphere into the plant through the 508 (horsetail). But as I said, Glen has this figured out better than I do. I heretofore have been lost both in Steiner's explanations and Glen's. Thanks Hugh for writing your post. You provide a great picture to be with. With regards the above there is a bit of a confusion of words going on here. Your use of the words 'primary and secondary silica forces' are being used in a different manner to how I and I believe Lievegeod has presented them. Your use of the names cosmic and earthly and primary and secondary are as one would expect them to be from theapparant experience of nature, however if we look at Lievegeod he gives indications whichsuggest we need to look further. One would expect Cosmic Silica to be coming in the atmosphere and Earthly Si from the Earth however does primary translate into Earthly and does secondary translate into Cosmic. All the words used in this discussion are most confusing and I find it better to draw pictures, than try and describe it all, and so hence my books at my website. Please refer to the chapter " Biodynamic Plant Growth" http://rimu.orcon.net.nz/garuda/books/index.html. In Biodynamics Decoded. One of the primary issues I see is happening in Hughs combining of his perceptions and mine can be resolved once we see in the chapter I have outlined the way the forces work at the different layers of manifestations spiral. To observe plant growth as RS describes I have found it necessary to clearly differentiate teh activites of each level , 2 fold, 3 fold, 4 fold etc. Hugh talks a lot about how the forces work at level 2 and level 3, however from there he is becoming confused. In the book I have described how we have to sets of polarities. What I call a macro polarity which lives in the World bodies of creation and then a micro polarity which mainifests as the way the forces work internally in lifeforms. Level 2 - which exists externally to our human forms.ie we are not androgonous or bisexual we are monsexual and we need an external partner to mate with to produce life. Once we internalise the level 2 of polarity fully we will be androgonous hermaphidites. The point is at this level we have the Cosmic pole in polarity to the Earthly pole. in this instance I see the Cosmic as the male Si stream up the spiral via the nerve sense system , the elements of light and warmth adn the outer planets, while the Earthly is the female Calcium stream through the mode (3) of metabolism,elements of Water and Earth and the inner planets. see the chart http://rimu.orcon.net.nz/garuda/BDDecoded2.gif So at level 2 we have a Cosmic and Earthly. These should that not be mixed up with the use of Cosmic and Earthly later on up the spiral. Hugh talks alot about level 3 in his descriptions of 500 501 and horn clay. He also describes level 4s interaction in this process as well, however some confusion appears, be it only in the use of thewords possibly. We are saying essentially the same thing, although Hugh so eloquantly adds the details. Once we come to level 4 and 7 - via Lievegeod we come into a much more complex picture where we again meet the words Cosmic, Earthly, Primary, secondary, Matter, Forces and Calcium Silica. Best read what I have written under the 7 fold section. I first give Lievegeods diagramof primary and secondary processes, ala Goethe. In his book he outlines how the primary / cosmic/ Beingand secondary/Earthly/ Manifestprocesses work in plant growth. The primary are the building up forces while the Secondary Earthly forces are those we see manifestingin plant growth. These are outlined under Lievegeods chart. We can see from this that the last stage of seeding occurs in the Saturn 2 process. To get to what RS is talking about in the agriculture course we have to take a step through dimensions to come to what he says in lectures 2, 6 8 in the way he outlines the planets activity. We need to take the archtypal picture of how the planets externally influence manifestion and take them one step further towards matter to the laws standing closer to yet behind matter. This is achieved by twisting a
Re: Fwd: Prep 500 and 501 effects
Thank you Hugh and Dave, Just a little background to the soil and the plots. They are near Tauranga not far north of the 38th paralell. Very few frosts in the winter but this last season had quite a few spring frosts. The soil is a sandy loam that has had some light pummice showers over it a long time ago. The calcuim is low and the potasium very high, zinc and copper are on the low side too. The whole garden is a night paddock cow campor cows bedroom so is well manured from the cow perspective. When I first came to live here I made a mineral compost with R.P.R.,dolomite, local crusher dust, sulfer,copper, zinc and selenium, with just enough organic material to compost through three heat cycles and four turns. After four months there was no visible evidence of any mineral inputs although the final heap was only double the volume of the minerals added. This was dressed on at 2t. / Ha.As a result the grass growth rate doubled a fortnight after application. Most of theland since had 3t. / Ha of twice but the garden area missed out. After the lettuces were finnished we put on a stirred 500 that was made with clay bungs in the horns plus some chamomile prep and a bit of worm casting, The worms are now shoulder to shoulder. The grass growth is matching the N. farmer next door. Warm regards to all, Peter. - Original Message - From: Hugh Lovel To: Dave Robison Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 3:18 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: Prep 500 and 501 effects ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Fwd: Prep 500 and 501 effects
Gill Sorry I missed this in my earlier post but you have the associations a little mixed here The primary cosmic silica forces from the outer planets work down into plants (enhanced by 501?) and into the soil, These are actually lievegeods/RS/my secondary outer planets terrestrial silica are held by silicate rocks in the earth, then clay facilitates their uptake into the plant by the Secondary Si process, primary outer planets, Cosmic Si, giving form and pulling the plant upwards how? these forces push the plant upwards. if anything it is the terrestrial Si processes thru the light and warmthwhich pull the plant towards it I trust my last post helped clarify this. I find if we hold the lec 8 diagram (pg 155 green agric.) in mind then it provides the answer. This is afterall the end product we are aiming to understand. In the metabolic region - above the earth- Earthly forces are the secondary Si outer planets lievegeod talks of. While the Cosmic Forces in the N/S, head, below ground are the primary outer planets, Cosmic Si processes. Both these 'head' forces work upwards, while both the metabolic forces work downwards. All very confusing, especially when we relate this back to level 2 polarity, external laws and we start calling the Head the Earthly 500 forces and the Belly 501 forces the Cosmic. hence the COSMIC contains Cosmic Substance and Earthly forces and the EARTHLY contains Cosmic Forces and Earthly Substance. I hope this helps. Glen A ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Fwd: Prep 500 and 501 effects
You're right Glen, it is all very confusing I've spent a good bit of time reading your book! Nonetheless, intuitively it seems vital to be able to understand this better. I do wish that there was some way you could offer your month long course. How about structuring some kind of course on line? It would have to be stretched out over an extended period of time to give people time to respond. I would be willing to pay something for instruction from you that started in the beginning and continued toward more complexity. Hope you will think about it. Thanks Ron -Original Message-From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biodynamic Food and Farming Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Friday, June 06, 2003 7:56 PMSubject: Re: Fwd: Prep 500 and 501 effects Gill Sorry I missed this in my earlier post but you have the associations a little mixed here The primary cosmic silica forces from the outer planets work down into plants (enhanced by 501?) and into the soil, These are actually lievegeods/RS/my secondary outer planets terrestrial silica are held by silicate rocks in the earth, then clay facilitates their uptake into the plant by the Secondary Si process, primary outer planets, Cosmic Si, giving form and pulling the plant upwards how? these forces push the plant upwards. if anything it is the terrestrial Si processes thru the light and warmthwhich pull the plant towards it I trust my last post helped clarify this. I find if we hold the lec 8 diagram (pg 155 green agric.) in mind then it provides the answer. This is afterall the end product we are aiming to understand. In the metabolic region - above the earth- Earthly forces are the secondary Si outer planets lievegeod talks of. While the Cosmic Forces in the N/S, head, below ground are the primary outer planets, Cosmic Si processes. Both these 'head' forces work upwards, while both the metabolic forces work downwards. All very confusing, especially when we relate this back to level 2 polarity, external laws and we start calling the Head the Earthly 500 forces and the Belly 501 forces the Cosmic. hence the COSMIC contains Cosmic Substance and Earthly forces and the EARTHLY contains Cosmic Forces and Earthly Substance. I hope this helps. Glen A ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Fwd: Prep 500 and 501 effects
- Original Message - From: Hugh Lovel To: Dave Robison Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 1:18 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: Prep 500 and 501 effects Dear Hugh Thanks for posting this to BDnow - we do appreciate the effort you put into this - our soils and biology professors would have great difficulty arguing against the science you have presented here! Gillian (Cole) may get some useful insight into the effect of colours from a look atthe work of John N Ott - his video " Exploring the Spectrum" is still available for sale and isvery interesting. Looks at the effects ofdifferent light frequencieson plants, animals, and humans, (kids in school), well worth a viewing by anyone that has not seen it. Arden Andersen uses this video in his soils school to stimulate thoughts aboutenergy.Its really effective. Cheers Lloyd Charles Dave,Here is some attempt at response. Terribly time consuming. Hope I see you in NZ in July. I'd like to forward this discussion to BDnow to see if I can stimulate any further comments.Hugh Lovel How important photons are and how much coherence in light uptake by plants (or animals) affects things is not so clear. For example animals have chemical reactions beginning at the retina and traveling down the optic nerve to the pituitary and affecting the pineal gland, etc. on through the body chemistry. We don't know nearly enough about this, but it is important way beyond what usually is believed. Pumpkin vines make more female flowers under the (I think it is blue) influence of one end of the spectrum and more male flowers with the opposite. ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
