Re: Pfeiffer Field Spray - was Shredders for composting
The recipes for these things are proprietary. Pfeiffer had a partner in the General Compost Corp who is still alive and guarding the information. From what I know there is the bd remedies and lots of sprouted seeds and a ground hog or similar substitute, +++ that get composted and run through. It is made in a large cement mixer which runs for about thirty days. There is lots of redundancy which makes it so intense a product. The resultant compost is then formed into cookies and dried to rock hard consistency and then ground up in a hammermill...make some, I daare ya...SStorch Steve - Aren't there also incubated bacteria added to this brew? -Allan
RE: Pfeiffer Field Spray - was Shredders for composting
Thanks Allan and Steve - you have answered a question which no-one has been able to for the last 10 years. I'll stick with becoming a dedicated prep and BC user thanks. Stephen Barrow
Re: Pfeiffer Field Spray - was Shredders for composting
In a message dated 5/21/02 7:45:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Steve - Aren't there also incubated bacteria added to this brew? -Allan I believe that Pfeiffer isolated the bacteria and fungi active in 500 after the stirring process and/or from the raw form...sstorch
Re: Shredders for composting -rye
Allan-- I will be interested to hear more details about the slurry. We don't have animals because of the day jobs, but usually end up with about 50 acres of this type of rye every year due to cover cropping before soybeans. Usually, we mow it after it has headed out since this kills it, and then plant into the stubble. But I don't think we are getting much fertility value from the stalks at this point. I have heard others recommend that we shoudl disk it in a couple of times earlier in the srping to get the value from green manure. But this doesn't fit into the ridge system, which we make in the fall. (The theory is that far fewer weeds germinate in the spring without srping tillage.) I have also seen rye rolled to kill it, and then tomatoes planted into the yellow straw--but you probably don't have acres of tomatoes either...Dorothy __ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com
Re: Shredders for composting
In a message dated 5/19/02 11:06:20 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It takes a very mature cow to be able to properly digest winter rye 'grass' or 'hay. Winter rye makes straw not hay...I have fed it to my cows green, they really like it. It is very high in silica, actually accumulates it out of the air. Excellent stuff for mixing with manure and clay for an old fashion beehive...sstorch
Pfeiffer Field Spray - was Shredders for composting
Allan, What is the recipe for the Pfeiffer Field Spray and his Compost Starter? I have read of them, but have no idea how to go about making them Thanks Stephen Barrow
Re: Pfeiffer Field Spray - was Shredders for composting
Allan, What is the recipe for the Pfeiffer Field Spray and his Compost Starter? I have read of them, but have no idea how to go about making them Thanks Stephen Barrow Stephen - As far as I know, this is a proprietary product. I buy mine from JPI in Woolwine. I do not have real comparisons, but it is my understanding that the field spray is superior to BC as a pre-plow-down spray to spare those of us who want to plant too soon after incorporation from losing too much nitrogen to decomp. _Allan
RE: Shredders for composting
Thanks Lloyd - your suggestion of the straw chopper off a combine is definitely worth looking into.. Stephen Barrow
Re: Shredders for composting
Dear Cheryl, Allan, et. al., Yes. I mow the stalks to chop them as finely as possible first. Corn doesn't chop so well, of course. But the spader incorporates things wonderfully. Then in these beds I sow a winter cover mix of rye, crimson clover, turnip, rape, mustard and chinese radish (China Rose) as the brassicas are all rye companions. Then I make a quick, shallow pass over the seeds with my rototiller to mix the seed in the top couple inches. Normally on the earlier fall sowings I get hundreds of dollars of harvestable greens and roots out of these cover crops. If I had the markets and pickers it could easily be thousands of dollars following my sweet corn, though my field corn must dry before picking. It gets incorporated too late for harvestable greens and roots. Nevertheless it is important income. Then I also mow for green chop for the milk cows and their calves on into the winter and into spring after market season is over and there's frost damage, and this yields superior fodder as well as saving on feed costs as well as pulling a little fertility out of the system so it is not too lush in spring. With the way I'm doing BD I find corn puts so much juice into the system it is a good idea to hold it back so the next spring when I till under the rye things aren't too lush and I don't get too strong a weed growth. I recommend spaders. Absolutely. Best tillage action I've ever seen. A spader's a little slow, but it does everything in one pass. Best, Hugh Lovel Dear Allen, I remember seeing Hugh Lovels pictures, where he chops his corn down and does a rough turn in, then sows directly into the green corn trash with a pasture mix. Maybe Hugh will come out and discuss this? Do you have a spader? Wouldnt that do the work for you in turning in - I saw one recently and the turning in and bed tillage was fantastic.All ready for replanting. Why would you use Pfeiffer sprays if you are already using BC ?(which I presume has all the BD compost preps in there). Cheryl Cheryl Kemp Education and Workshop Coordinator BDFGAA Phone /Fax : 02 6657 5322 Home: 02 6657 5306 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.biodynamics.net.au - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 10:22 PM Subject: Re: Shredders for composting Dear Allan, Why not just mow the rye over with a mower and spray with Barrel Compost and then turn in by spade as a green manure, roots and all. Saves a lot of effort and still aids the soil. Then make a proper compost heap, with your hay and green matter and manure, for later use, and use your last lot of compost turned in with this lot as well on the raised beds. Cheryl Cheryl - Thanks for the suggestions. I'm working with acres here, often by myself. I'm going from covered soil to raised bed that I transplant into almost immediately, hence the raking off of the heavy organic matter, which, incidentally, extension agents in these parts do not feel contribute substantially to organic matter if turned in (roots, which remain in my beds being the greatest contributers and of mass equal to the tops). I do BC the beds right after spading-lifting-tilling. If I had money-time, I'd be hitting all the beds with Pfeiffer Field Spray, also. Please let me know if I've misunderstood what you are saying. It is not my experience that I can get right into the beds if I plow down 'full grown' rye, even with BC -Allan Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Shredders for composting
In my experience it pays to mix all materials going into a compost heap. I have always retuned between 10% to 25% old compost mixed in with the new materials. I have often made composts using large quantities of grass collected in a forage harvester and even when tumble mixed with a bobcat there was still pockets of silage in the heap. this means that the heap needs turning fairly soon after the initial setup to get air into them. If one is hand making the compost this problem is much easier to avoid. best wishes, Peter.
Re: Shredders for composting
Dear Allan, Why not just mow the rye over with a mower and spray with Barrel Compost and then turn in by spade as a green manure, roots and all. Saves a lot of effort and still aids the soil. Then make a proper compost heap, with your hay and green matter and manure, for later use, and use your last lot of compost turned in with this lot as well on the raised beds. Cheryl Cheryl - Thanks for the suggestions. I'm working with acres here, often by myself. I'm going from covered soil to raised bed that I transplant into almost immediately, hence the raking off of the heavy organic matter, which, incidentally, extension agents in these parts do not feel contribute substantially to organic matter if turned in (roots, which remain in my beds being the greatest contributers and of mass equal to the tops). I do BC the beds right after spading-lifting-tilling. If I had money-time, I'd be hitting all the beds with Pfeiffer Field Spray, also. Please let me know if I've misunderstood what you are saying. It is not my experience that I can get right into the beds if I plow down 'full grown' rye, even with BC -Allan
RE: Shredders for composting
Thanks for the reply. The thing is, I don't know how small to shred compost material! I find that making compost with unshredded material just increases the amount of work, especially when turning. We do everything by hand, so need to make composting making as easy on the body as possible. Also, due to South Africa's semi-arid climate, the rate of soil organic matter mineralization is more than 5 times that in Europe. Conservative estimates mentioned during a conference last week ranged from 200 - 300 tons per hectare in year 1, 100 tons for the next two years, before repeating the cycle again. Some farmers double those amounts. Thus, optimised compost making, with minimised energy and labour inputs are essential. Therefore sieving is just an extra handling process, which I don't want to get into. I have had this experience in an urban garden and simply cannot afford to go that route now that I am working a larger area. Care to expand on your ideas of a roller / crusher? Thanks Stephen Barrow -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 1:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Shredders for composting Why do you want to shred something so small??? It would be gone soon anyway. If it is not done, screen and re-compost. You would be better of with a slow moving heavy weight roller to crush and expose more surface area, less parts to wear and bend and fix. SStorch
Re: Shredders for composting
I like Steve's suggestion for crushing with a roller. I did a bit of that when i had access to a clean concrete slab for a while. My 5' roller, filled with water weighs about 1200lbs.,and worked well, except for some of the larger woody turnips which wouldnt get squeezed in front of the roller's grip. It was hard work by hand when the material built up, and i slipped into it on occasion, getting a run on it. That's as far as i got before thinking of making a long handle extension to the tractor hitch for going back and forth totally clear of the slab with the tractor. Of course this required shovelling up into wheelbarrows/wagon, spreading straw and min.soil in between layers, and sawdust around the edges of the slab to soak up the valuable juices. Volume is a factor. Obviously it would be ideal to just fling the mix into an established heap on one side ot the slab. I have also used an old electric lawnmower,with a mulching blade, suspended upside down on a 45degree angle, and with the lower part of the shroud-rim cut away. I used an old piece of furnace duct/plenum as a chute above it, and had a small enclosed wagon underneath(.less shovelling). The cuttings were randomly adequate with different materials, but it all helped the disint. process. For loose straw,spread out, i always drove back and forth over it with the riding mower set high, till the lengths were suitable. I am definitely saving for a strawbale chopper, commonly used for short-piece poultry bedding, etc. I plan to use the short material as a consistent mulch for some plants. It's so easy to move around the stems. I have also combined saved bags of (dry) tree leaves spread out, with long green lengths of scythe-cut rye and clover strewn over them...and drove over it with the tractor/rotary mower. This mixed very well, and was relatively easy to scoop with a manurefork. This is done on my main grassed drive- paths- as- a -work -area. They are cut often enough that i dont worry about many weed seeds coming along in the mix. I've mentioned this before as my favorite procedure for fine tuning a compost mix: If you have a manure wagon, adding an inverted U-shaped hood over/behind the beater bar,(to contain/deflect the flailing goodies) you can mix into it all the ingredients in any combination, or as it's available, in appropriate layers, wetting as/if needed, adding 500 or BC ,and then PTO-flail it out into one heap , no turning afterwards.just insert preps and cover with straw/soil. If it seems too warm, attach a long multi- hole-drilled pipe to an aircompressor, and inject at different places. That said and done, i wouldn't do any turning,chopping if not necessary, .and time is on your side. ..manfred
Re: Shredders for composting
Dear Allen, I remember seeing Hugh Lovels pictures, where he chops his corn down and does a rough turn in, then sows directly into the green corn trash with a pasture mix. Maybe Hugh will come out and discuss this? Do you have a spader? Wouldnt that do the work for you in turning in - I saw one recently and the turning in and bed tillage was fantastic.All ready for replanting. Why would you use Pfeiffer sprays if you are already using BC ?(which I presume has all the BD compost preps in there). Cheryl Cheryl Kemp Education and Workshop Coordinator BDFGAA Phone /Fax : 02 6657 5322 Home: 02 6657 5306 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.biodynamics.net.au - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 10:22 PM Subject: Re: Shredders for composting Dear Allan, Why not just mow the rye over with a mower and spray with Barrel Compost and then turn in by spade as a green manure, roots and all. Saves a lot of effort and still aids the soil. Then make a proper compost heap, with your hay and green matter and manure, for later use, and use your last lot of compost turned in with this lot as well on the raised beds. Cheryl Cheryl - Thanks for the suggestions. I'm working with acres here, often by myself. I'm going from covered soil to raised bed that I transplant into almost immediately, hence the raking off of the heavy organic matter, which, incidentally, extension agents in these parts do not feel contribute substantially to organic matter if turned in (roots, which remain in my beds being the greatest contributers and of mass equal to the tops). I do BC the beds right after spading-lifting-tilling. If I had money-time, I'd be hitting all the beds with Pfeiffer Field Spray, also. Please let me know if I've misunderstood what you are saying. It is not my experience that I can get right into the beds if I plow down 'full grown' rye, even with BC -Allan
Re: Shredders for composting
Allan, One way to handle green rye is given in Plowman's Folly by Faulkner, not suitable for your raised bed thing, but then, in me humble opinion, neither is rye, period. A winterkill crop like oats or ryegrass would be better suited especially since you have acres to mow before you sleep, eh? I believe, and someone jump down my throat if I am wrong, that you can make hay out of green rye and then feed it to animals. The hay part means you can save it and feed it only as needed. The animal part means they will work it into a green slurry for you, and then even produce milk, meat, wool, in the bargain. Yeah, you'll get a little less green slurry that way, but believe me, making anything like cereal rye into a green slurry takes more horsepower or patience than most of us likely have, plus your time might be better spent elsewhere. A simpleton's solution might be to mow and leave beside your raised bed for use as a mulch later on. You'll lose some magic to leaching and such, but it'll be right there when you need it.maybe in the fall? In the tractor tool scheme, I think something like a silage chopper might do enough to beat up the stuff for composting well without the overkill implied in 'green slurry', at least to my mind. Re late frosts, if it makes you feel any better (misery loving company and all) they had one in the Niagara region of Ontario too. You should expect late frosts, you know after Blue Ridge comes the 'M' word, eh? At least from time to timebut those vineyards in the Niagara region don't expect it. On to small scale things, I grew rye to maturity once in a small patch, Gene Logsdon-like, and used the dry straw both chopped and wholeboth ways worked to deliver aeration into the green stuff. I certainly agree with what's been said about getting a mix of sizes and shapes of materials for composting. I am, since my youth, a big fan of rameal chipped wood for a bulking agent and fungal food in composting, as well as a dandy mulch for the right crops I have used a 5 HP chipper shredder to cut up straw, and expect it would work best on green rye if fed in bundles, butt end first. Probably also best to feed it right after cutting while the turgor is still there. I would take my screen off completely, letting the front cutter and the hammermills do all the chopping and roughing work. Mixing grassclippings, straw/leaves, and wood chips in about equal volumes, by running them together through this shredder, I never failed to get 150 F temps when I wanted them. Most of the grass clippings go in thin layers on the worm beds now, though, which saves a lot of annoying ahrimanic shredder work. They get sandwiched between layers of leaves for the sake of C:N balancing. The long and short of it, Allan, is there are likely several different things you could do with your mown rye. I agree with you that none of them include incorporating it immediately and then planting soon. I hope for your sake it is far enough along to actually be killed by mowing. There is technology out there of all shapes and sizes, able to shred everything from giant tree roots to little office envelopes. If you just want to scarify the stuff enough so that the 'crobes can get into it, putting it under your macroherd for some time ought to work, and that was just what Sir Albert did. 'Trampled underfoot' isn't just about the subway rush in New York, you know... A layer of green rye, stomp, stomp, stomp, a layer of straw, leaves, or wood chips, stomp, stomp, stomp, some more green rye, stomp, stomp, stomp, a bit of manure falls in, plop, plop, plop-get it? :-) Frank Teuton---has recently been reminded of the power of hooves, from Belgian horses to sheep, and even birds can scratch up compostables a bityou might call it 'macro-comminution' if you've been spending too much time at sites like this one: http://www.earthlife.net/insects/isopoda.html - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 8:22 AM Subject: Re: Shredders for composting Dear Allan, Why not just mow the rye over with a mower and spray with Barrel Compost and then turn in by spade as a green manure, roots and all. Saves a lot of effort and still aids the soil. Then make a proper compost heap, with your hay and green matter and manure, for later use, and use your last lot of compost turned in with this lot as well on the raised beds. Cheryl Cheryl - Thanks for the suggestions. I'm working with acres here, often by myself. I'm going from covered soil to raised bed that I transplant into almost immediately, hence the raking off of the heavy organic matter, which, incidentally, extension agents in these parts do not feel contribute substantially to organic matter if turned in (roots, which remain in my beds being the greatest contributers and of mass equal to the tops). I do BC the beds right after spading-lifting-tilling. If I had
Re: Shredders for composting
I believe, and someone jump down my throat if I am wrong, that you can make hay out of green rye and then feed it to animals. The hay part means you can save it and feed it only as needed. The animal part means they will work it into a green slurry for you, and then even produce milk, meat, wool, in the bargain. Yeah, you'll get a little less green slurry that way, but believe me, making anything like cereal rye into a green slurry takes more horsepower or patience than most of us likely have, plus your time might be better spent elsewhere. Frank - It takes a very mature cow to be able to properly digest winter rye 'grass' or 'hay.' That pretty much excludes we stocker scheme folks, who are working with animals less than 2 years old. It would take a lot of rabbits to eat the stacks of rye that I have , but I'll try some of it on some of them tomorrow. -Allan
Re: Shredders for composting
Why do you want to shred something so small??? It would be gone soon anyway. If it is not done, screen and re-compost. You would be better of with a slow moving heavy weight roller to crush and expose more surface area, less parts to wear and bend and fix. SStorch
Re: Shredders for composting
I find a small shredder (bought, not home-made!) invaluable for making shrub trimmings up to about 3/4 diam, and often several feet long, suitable for inclusion in compost. I can't see how else these could be processed? Tony N-S.
Re: Shredders for composting
I used to compost lawn clippings from a local mowing contractor. The main problem I struck with the fine clippings was that it tended to pack down and restrict the air in the pile. This made frequent turning necessary After listening to E. Ingham and putting my brain into gear, I have come to the conclusion that heavy coarse particles are necessary in the mix, finely chopped grass breaks down quicker but has disadvantages. It appears the larger the range of ingredients and textures the better. David C - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 19 May 2002 2:00 AM Subject: Re: Shredders for composting What about my situation? I'm cutting overwintered rye off from raised bed and getting ready to compost it with cow manure (to re-apply to the same beds) I'm thinking about putting the cut rye into a bin and dropping a rotary mower on it, to chop it to a green slurry. (I think Hugh has suggested this) But again, I think, why not just layer the whole green straw with the manure? I'd like to hear about other's experiences with the whole and the chopped. thanks _Allan
Shredders for composting
Hi All, Does anybody have experience with making a shredder or similar device? I have a cylinder made from 5 mm thick plate, which I wish to use as the basis for a shredder. I envisage having rotary blades chopping against fixed blades as the first stage, and, lower down, chain flails to smash up the chopped bits. This would be for shredding material upto cabbage stem size and toughness. A young mechanical engineer has indicated his willingness to design and help build the shredder, and will thus take care of safety aspects, size of engine, etc. We don't want to reinvent the wheel, so to speak, and at the same time, wish to limit the amount of experimentation before getting it right. Therefore, I would appreciate it if anybody has ideas and plans for building an efficient shredder. Thanks for the help. Stephen Barrow
