Re: (was)introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions-Composting
Hi All. Dr. Nicholaus Remer recomended the spreading of the compound preparations in deep litter barns in 1966. I remember the treated barns smelling much sweeter compared to before the litter was treated. In contrast the barns of farmers using chemical fertilisers the amonia smell was so strong that it was virtually imposible to go in. I realise this situation is different with years old litter but I think it is well worthwhile treating barn litter as it is building up. Peter. -
Re: introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions
Hi! Jennifer, You got a good answer from Aurora Farm and I go along with all they said. Getting going in manageable steps is important, or you will break your heart and create a weed patch. Compost and mulch are the main tools to get the garden firing and to reduce work, weeds and imputes. With goat poo, I would suggest it is like sheep, which has a mucus that resists break down. It should never be applied direct, as should no bird or animal manure. Only well composted. Sheep and goat tends to be dry andun-wet-able. At least, it needs physically breaking up and wetting well, before composting. One can use a concrete mixer with just enough water to make a slurry and rocks or broken clay bricks to break the manure up.. As with handling any manure, avoid breathing in the dust and get your tetanus shots up to date. If you site the concrete mixer near the compost site, empty into the barrow, remove the rocks and make the compost right away. You will need a lot of vegetable material/ paper/ what ever. If it is dry, wet it in an old bath of water. Paper should be wet to the point of falling apart. The bigger range of materials the better, as you will get a bigger range of minerals etc. I like to include some bird manure, if available, for extra nitrogen and as important, extra heat, as sheep and goat are not very hot, when composting. If possible always include some green material. I like to include a sprinkle of finely crushed volcanic rock dust, as one can be too organic and too little mineral. I use compounds made from old wooden pallets wired together making spaces about 1.2 Metres square and as high, make several in a row. Start at one end, filling them in order. Layer the material in thin layers, manure, vegetable material, manure etc. I make up the Compost Preps as a liquid and add a little each layer or two. After two weeks in the warm part of the year, longer if cold, build a new compound at the starting end and open the first compound, take the top and front and place in the middle of the bottom of the new compound, then empty the middle out. Place the material from the sides and back in the new space and then turn the rest and place it of top. Level the heap and if another compound is available also add that to the new compound. After another two weeks turn it again, moving it back to the original compound. After another two weeks, you should have usable compost. I have a large screen with one inch holes, which I pass the compost through as part of the mixing process. In the early stages the heat should be too hot to comfortably place the arm. The amount of water required is considerable, about one third by volume. Dryness is one of the greatest mistakes in compost. The compost is finished when it cools down. If still hot, it is still working. When finished, I like to add some worm casts and worms to allow worms to establish before use. Compost is a living environment and must be kept damp if stored before use. The pallet compounds makes compost quicker than open heaps. I include bones, twigs, corn storks, nut shells etc, that takes a long time to break down and just sieve them out at the end and add them to the next lot, until eventually broken down. Gil
Re: introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions
Hi Woody: Yes, it's preferable to make the compost outside, incorporatingother material,and in shaped mounds. I guess i didn't assume that there was a frontend loader on hand, or barn-access for such. And, sensing the broad ambitions/schedule of Jennifer and her husband, didn't assume this major effort should be prioritized by considerable handwork. Having cleaned out a 5-footdeep 15-yr-old sheep-barn by hand, (before i knew about BD or composting) i know what a chore it is, ...again... depending on how compacted it is. If there was much straw used, in regular intervals, I believe there would be enough aeration. Certainly, in order to heat up, and moistenthe existing pile, a chicken manure slurry could be diluted and dribbled all over it. several times, even poking holes throughout with a long bar to get a feel of the heap's consistency. The other caution i had before knowing that they do have 11goats, is that once you remove that insulating layer froma concretebarn floor, you open it up to frost-heaving at this time of year a common mistake by firstime farmers. ( but i don't know how cold it gets in Kentucky). And with the 11 goats, a new layer could be started.Mind you, if it has a dirt floor, there'syour extra worms! I would say : do what you have the energy for by hand or machine , andwork the rest in place,(even as an experimental experience! )so you don't have to move it all, twice or more. It's much easier to handle when it's crumblier. I agree, Woody, that a 2-acre planted garden the first year, is a heap'o'work. Understanding Jennifer's intention to do a CSA, it still wouldnt be too much to cultivate that extra at the same time... planting the first veggies in a half acre but prepping the rest of the designated 2 for the next seasons with sown cover-crop (unless there is already something suitable in place). Especially if there are any variations in drainage characteristics, it would prudently give more ready choice for alternate rotations... as theensuing seasonsbring their moisture-level clues, and you have to act quickly especially if you have obligations to a csa. As we see, each known clue can influence our perspective reyour ..circumspective..ongoing creative process, Jennifer. To quote John Phibrick about 30 yrs ago, when i was just starting: Never plant a larger garden than your spouse can handle!! manfred - Original Message - From: Aurora Farm To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 10:11 PM Subject: Re: introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions Jennifer: Others have talked about more global issues...the weeds and what they tell, soil tests, etc. Since I've mainly been a gardener, let me talk about that two acres you have in mind to garden. Don't worry about soil tests with that precious patch. You will so improve the soil on that small scale endeavor over the next couple of years that a soil test now will be meaningless. COMPOST, COMPOST, COMPOST is the answer to your need to supply wholesome food for your family. Now rethink your need for a 2-acre garden this season...you don't need that much land to grow family food--even if you strive for and eventually achieve 95 percent of your table needs. Think more in terms of a half acre this year. That is doable with hand tools, after an initial plowing and harrowing. Concentrate on a half acre--that's roughly 100'x200'. Done intensively, with raised beds, you can grow food for two or three families on, that 20,000 square feet. Say40% of that is paths and tractor turnaround space, and you've got12,000 square feet of bed space, 80beds 50 feet long. 2 beds for salad,6 for root crops, many for soft fruit,2-5 for tomatoes and peppers,10 for winter squash,15 for grain and beans, including sweet corn,2-4 for garlic and onions, the equivalent of at least 5 for flowers, [though flowersshold be interspersed throughout the vegetables], a couple more beds for extras I'm maybe not thinking of. This much space will give you surplus to sell and plenty to can, freeze, dry. Manfred mentioned adding the compost preps to the goat manure in place. I disagree. I would somehow get that stuff out of the barn and into a proper, aerated pile. Odds are it's very compacted, and though it's true that the forces of the preps would radiate throughout the compacted manure, you're going to have to get the stuff into shape to use, so you might as well break it up with picks and shovels [or a frontloader?] and get it outside where the worms will get into it. A 50' long bed could easily use a cubic yard [one cubic foot every 2 feet, say, or a wheelbarrow load every 4 feet] this first year, so you see the imperative to get going now. As for books, the explanation of Biodynamics and the Steiner preparations in "Secrets of the Soil" is superb
Re: (was)introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions-Composting
I seem to recall Ferdinand writing about putting down preps directly in the barn, only I don 't recall whether it was composting ones or 500/501? Maybe Pam can clear this up, as I believe she toured the farm a couple of years ago. JS - Original Message - From: Manfred Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 4:01 PM Subject: Re: introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions Hi Woody: Yes, it's preferable to make the compost outside, incorporating other material, and in shaped mounds. I guess i didn't assume that there was a frontend loader on hand, or barn-access for such. And, sensing the broad ambitions/schedule of Jennifer and her husband, didn't assume this major effort should be prioritized by considerable handwork. Having cleaned out a 5-foot deep 15-yr-old sheep-barn by hand, (before i knew about BD or composting) i know what a chore it is, (snip)
Re: (was)introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions-Composting
I seem to recall Ferdinand writing about putting down preps directly in the barn, only I don 't recall whether it was composting ones or 500/501? Maybe Pam can clear this up, as I believe she toured the farm a couple of years ago. My recollection is that Ferdinand used to spary Barrel Compost (which contains the compost preps)on barn floors and chicken runs. A good idea! (Elaine Ingham would certainly approve!) -Allan
Re: Tractor Turnaround space Re: introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions
Hi Allan : How long are your rows? Mine are 2 sets of about 75-90 ft.More than that, and you discourage your help (no-end-in-sight) in planting/harvesting. Less than that, and i would have had to allocate another permanent path. Do you have a treed perimeter, or plan on one? I have an (encroaching) treed perimeter I've tried the tractor- back-in whim, and it was a pain in my neck at 75 ft., and, it's one extra soil pass! whose effects are not necessarily nullified by the ensuing cultivation. (I have seen this done in a greenhouse where space is really at a premium.) Since then, i've justified the entire sod perimeter and several quartering drivepaths. Just logistically, it makes for more efficient work. Won't you periodically want to traverse freely with a harvest wagon(s) to lay out quantities of earthy carrots , or onions or garlic to dry and be ready to cover or transport en masse to storage at convenience? Or possibly a large lot of strawmulch?to various sites.. whether by tractor or horse, or a dozen weekend weeders. I don't view the paths as wasted, because i let them grow quite high before cutting. All that time they provide habitat for insects, and the residue has microbial/carbon spinoffs which eventually contribute to the garden too. I love to run my muddy fingers through the dewey grass after harvesting, or lay out veggies to keep them cleaner. I try to drive on different lines all the time, so as not to create the usual hump-centre which creates more torrential paths in severe rain. Grasses have been referred to as the empathetic forgiveness of nature, and when many of the plots are under tillage this strikes me as a reminder. Anyway, my drive paths are about 14'. This allows just enough room to swing my finger rake or cultivator around behind me.( I never make turns on the cultivated headland much too grinding on the micros.) All depends on your tractor's turning radius. .manfred - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 7:46 AM Subject: Tractor Turnaround space Re: introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions Woody and/or Barbara said: Say 40% of that is paths and tractor turnaround space, and you've got 12,000 square feet of bed space, I'm in the process of fencing a 7 acre garden. I plan on spading down cover crops and using a bedshaper for the first couple of years, but I also plan on getting the tractor out of the garden as soon as possible. The goal is permanent raised beds. Right now the garden area is too wet to have the tractor in to do a real-world tryout, but I really need to be determining how much space to leave for turnaround. In a way, I'd prefer to work to the fence and back out of the row, but I have to admit that in the long run, that's a literal pain in the neck and restrictive (or impossible later in the season.) How much land, my friends, do YOU set aside for end-of-row tractor turnabout? (ouch! with implements, of course.) I guess I'm hoping against hope that a few have worked out tricks that will keep me from setting all that fenced garden aside of tractor geometry a couple of times a season. -Allan
Re: introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions
Jeniffer wrote : "but then one of my daughters became autistic due to her routine vaccinations". You should consider talking to Dr. Arden Ardensen. He has reverted some cases of autism as caused by vaccination ( actually it is caused by the mercury or Merthiolate used to preserve the vaccines). Mercury poisoning plays an important role in this case. You can call Acres USA office and ask them the phone number of Dr Andersen. He was serving in the Air Force but I hope he is already back. If this is the case ( a confirmed case of Hg poisoning ) then you should also consider growing Biodynamic cilantro leaves and giving it to your child. Cilantro has a chelating ability for mercury, alluminum and lead.If she likes the leaves taste put then everywhere like soups, food,juice, etc.. If possible dry the leaves, grind them and put them in capsules. Regards Jose
Re: introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions
Manfred wrote: ***If you can afford the time, and you're short on funds anyway, keenly examine what grows on at least some of the fields as they are now. Note the types of weeds prevalent, and get a book... weeds and what they tell...E.Pfeiffer, and ask further questions of the list, too. Leave them alone till you need to bring them into production*** Hi Jennifer A more up to date book is WEEDS. Control without Poisons by Charles Walters. Editor Acres USA. This book is more recent than Pfeiffer and has more detail. It will tell all about your soils, ie condition of your soil,what nutrients are missing from your soil, and will also give remedies for getting rid of weeds with out poisons. I have both books and treasure them both. Good luck with your endeavors. Tony Robinson Rambler Flowers Levin New Zealand
Re: introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions
- Original Message - From: Jennifer Rochester To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 3:16 PM Subject: Re: introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions Hi Jennifer I would just like to endorse some of the replys made by Manfred. You will also find some good stuff from Hugh Lovel (and others) in the BDnow archives back as far as 1998. It will take some time to sort through but I think worth the effort ***Incidentally, his 4-hr. presentation, "basic, and advanced,biodynamics" was professionally recorded, and tapes are still available i believe.*** Where could I find this? This would be good for my dh to listen to in the car as well. You can get heaps of good tapes from Acres USA they have an extensive catalog ***Share your soil test results with the list?*** Ha! What soil tests. This we are working on. So, would the county ag extension service down the road be the best place to get this from? No way - no how - steer clearof fertiliser company and Agriculture department soil testing. Get a Perry lab type test (orBrookside ) and spend the money to do all trace elements so you know where you are starting from. We had planned on this, but then put it off, as we weren't sure if there was a better way, and didn't want to become confused with all of the fertilizer reccomendations we are sure to get. However, if this is the best option, we will just nod politely and then do our own thing (something we are getting to be very good at in recent years). ***As for the goat manure, depending on how densely it is packed, and how large an area it comprises, i would add, in place, the Steiner remedies prepared by a reputable practitioner...*** When does this need to be done? Now - right before we plant - naked under a full moon ;-) ? Good advice - dont put this stuff out before it is properly composted ***If you can afford the time, and you're short on funds anyway, keenly examine what grows on at least some of the fields as they are now. Note the types of weeds prevalent, and get a book... "weeds and what they tell"...E.Pfeiffer, and ask further questions of the list, too. Leave them alone till you need tobring them into "production"*** I will get the book. or try Charles Walters Weed control without poisons or there is another one by Jay L Macalman Lay a good foundation and you will save time and trouble in the future All the best Lloyd Charles
introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions
Hi all. My name is Jennifer. I don't know how much of an introduction is important here, but I will give enough info to hopefully help you understand our present situation anyway. I am married to Michael, and we are parents to 4 terrific little girls. We used to be pretty sheeple-ish, but then one of my daughters became autistic due to her routine vaccinations. This was the beginning of BIG life changes for us, in so many ways. We now no longer believe in the 'mainstream' medical model at all, as well as most things mainstream. I feel like an alien left on the wrong planet with my family a lot of the time. We now take care of our own 'medical needs', including birthing at home unassisted. Life is so much better now. Anyway . . . in doing some research about how to help my autistic daughter, I came across info about Sally Fallon. Along came even more changes in our lives. We now get all of the food we can find that is at least half decent (if that :-/ ) and prepare it correctly (I have become quite the sourdough queen, lol!), but we very quickly realized that in order to have truly good food, as well as legal access to raw milk etc, we would have to produce our own. So we began researching how to do this. We had a 5 yr plan to getting our own farm, but fate had other plans, and we are now on a 72 acre farm in Northern Kentucky, 4 yrs ahead of schedule. While we are absolutely ecstatic to be here, we didn't get nearly enough time to research and learn. Our plan is to have a 2 acre garden for ourselves this year, and hopefully start a CSA type operation in the following years. Our biggest dilemma is that we don't have much time to learn before it is time to plant this year. I feel very drawn to biodynamic gardening for many reasons, the biggest one being that it really makes sense and matches very well with our religious beliefs (LDS). The problem is, there is just so much to learn, and we have so little time!!! We are more than willing to do the work required to learn what we need to, but I am wondering if anyone can maybe help us by telling us which books and resources you feel are most valuable (I just got my first ACRES USA and catalog, and there are SO MANY books I would like to get, but we have limited resources and most especially limited time before this years planting). I know that it will take many years to get the farm up to the level that we would like, but I am also very anxious to make sure we are doing all we can to make it the best it can be NOW, especially because nutrient dense food is so important for my daughter in helping her to come out of her autism. Is anyone willing to maybe help us with a quick study in what we should be doing now? I am worried we are running out of time. I have been on this list for only a month (which is as long as we have been here on the farm), and while I am finding it very valuable, I feel a bit lost at times. I feel like an elementary student dropped into a roomful of advanced chemists, and I am floundering in trying to understand it all. I know that time will take care of this, just as it did when I first started learning about removing the mercury from my childs brain. I remember how lost I felt then, and now when newcomers come trying to learn, it's almost hard to understand why they don't get it, because it all seems so natural to me now. Like I said, we are more than willing to do what is needed to learn all we can, but in the meantime, it would be really helpful if someone could just say, 'look, here's what you need to do. You need to apply this particular prep at this particular time, and here's where you can get it or how you can make it, and here's how you apply it'. Is there somewhere where I can find what I need to do in a simple format like this? I know we will enjoy spending years learning all of this, but I really need something NOW as well, in a form I can easily understand. I can learn all of the why's later. We have a whole barn full of goat manure that is pretty well broken down (the previous owner had family problems, and did not have the time to clean it out for two years, just kept adding more straw), but I don't even know how this should be used. According to the 'organic' stuff I have read, we would add quite a bit of this, but according to the last note Hugh sent, we don't need that much. How the heck is a poor beginner like myself supposed to know what to do?!? Something deep in my heart tells me that I will find the answers here. I know that you all are very busy people, but if any of you feel so inclined, I would GREATLY appreciate some help, or at least a finger pointing methe direction I should go. Thanks somuch!!! Wow, with so many changes in such a short time in my life, I am really curious what could be coming up next. I am sure it will be something that I have no clue even exists right now. I am just loving filling my brain with all of thisnew info. I feel
Re: introduction and a WHOLE lotta questions
Thanks for writing Manfred :-) ***You would no doubt benefit greatly from his book : A Biodynamic Farm.*** This was first on my list already, with many close seconds. ***Incidentally, his 4-hr. presentation, "basic, and advanced,biodynamics" was professionally recorded, and tapes are still available i believe.*** Where could I find this? This would be good for my dh to listen to in the car as well. ***Share your soil test results with the list?*** Ha! What soil tests. This we are working on. So, would the county ag extension service down the road be the best place to get this from? We had planned on this, but then put it off, as we weren't sure if there was a better way, and didn't want to become confused with all of the fertilizer reccomendations we are sure to get. However, if this is the best option, we will just nod politely and then do our own thing (something we are getting to be very good at in recent years). ***As for the goat manure, depending on how densely it is packed, and how large an area it comprises, i would add, in place, the Steiner remedies prepared by a reputable practitioner...*** When does this need to be done? Now - right before we plant - naked under a full moon ;-) ? ***If you can afford the time, and you're short on funds anyway, keenly examine what grows on at least some of the fields as they are now. Note the types of weeds prevalent, and get a book... "weeds and what they tell"...E.Pfeiffer, and ask further questions of the list, too. Leave them alone till you need tobring them into "production"*** I will get the book. Nothing much has been grown on the fields here in a few years due to the previous family having to take care of a dying parent. Most of it is pasture, some alfalfa, and the rest I am not sure, just whatever native plants have taken over. It will definately help to get them identified. We are only planning on planting the 2 acre garden area this year, so we will have plenty of time to get the rest identifiedduring this next year. ***(What kind of equipment do you have?)*** I need to get out to the barn and make an inventory. I know we have 2 tractors, a hay bailer, and various other tractor implements, but I don't know just what right yet. The previous owners left it all for us, along with 11 nubian goats, a herd of barn cats, about 30 chickens, and a completely useless bunny which my children just love (which I guess makes him not quite useless). ***Certainly abide as closely as practicable to the planting/sowing schedule in the Stella Natura calendar, and learn what those celestial factors are as you go along.*** Yeah, this is where all that heavy learning comes into play. When I start reading the astronomy stuff, my brain fries up! I guess it just seems pretty confusing to a newbie, so much to learn. I will definately follow the calander though. ***As an alternate, or additional animal presence,... you may have heard of the movable, human scale, "chicken tractor:"... basically variations of a movable enclosure with a secure hutch included. These aremoved bit by bit down the field, feeding and replenishing as they go.*** Right. At the moment, the chickens are free ranged during the day, spending most of their time in the garden area. We lock them up at night. Would this be good to continue, or would a chicken tractor be better? Personally, I think it's pretty cool to have chickens come running up to me everytime I or my children go out the back door. They have really been a lot of fun. ***A byword is not to include manure from animals which have conventional deworming compounds passing through them*** Not a problem. I got lucky in that the previous owner didn't use such things. I thought I was the only other person alive who doesn't believe in vaccinations at all, including for animals, but she was 'natural' enough that the goats have been raised without vaccines, dewormers, etc. They are extremely healthy too! ***Continue to ask specific questions. ...And thrill to the inevitable variation of opinion/insight!*** ABSOLUTELY! I love varying opinions/insight. They always help me to open my mind to new ideas, or help me get clear and strong in my own beliefs, both good things, I believe. Thanks Manfred :-) Jennifer[EMAIL PROTECTED]~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*Click here for the best diet and nutrition information you will ever find!www.westonaprice.org~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness." -- William O. Douglas~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
