Re: [beagleboard] Re: Ubuntu on the Beagle
On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 5:05 AM, Elena ``of Valhalla'' < elena.valha...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Other hardware that may be problematic of course is new hardware which > requires a new kernel, and if you're not already using testing (as > mentioned in the other email), usually there is always one in backports. > This has not been my experience. My experience has been that if your drivers are not in stable, dont bother with testing, or sid. My last experience with this was when I had a new Core 2 Duo( E6300 CPU) system that would not work 100%. As I recall no matter what I did, the SATA controller would not work. Which was because the chipset was not fully recognized by Debian. With that said, the hardware at that time would not work with any distro. However, I'm of the opinion now days that you buy the hardware for your software. e.g. You buy hardware you know that works good for your given OS. There also comes the point that sure, maybe I've a lot of experience with Debian, and can figure out most problem related to it. But often, especially the older I get. I just want whatever it is I'm using to work. So if I need a desktop, for a system that may serve as a personal system, or a workstation. I may just opt for something that "just works" "out of the box". -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/CALHSORoBUNw9OpTiHAhxL0DxnMGPd3NWO9cjsRNhc1tCnkwVHQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Re: Ubuntu on the Beagle
On 2016-12-15 at 14:49:25 -0700, William Hermans wrote: > Ubuntu is a go to Distro for systems that may be running newer( current ) > hardware, that may not be supported by another distros out of the box. > Ubuntu is also good for desktop like situations. Where someone may want an > OS that "just works", and looks good, with desktop hardware acceleration. This is a point where the way Debian works may require some explanation. Debian is very picky on the topic of licensing / Free Software: if something is not Free Software (according to the DFSG_) and its sources can't be compiled using just Free Software it is not included in Debian "proper" (``main``). .. _DFSG: https://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines This however includes a number of packages that are sometimes required to work with some hardware, and those are being made available because lots of users actually need them (at least, when Debian is legally able to distribute them, of course), but they are relegated to ``contrib`` (free software that requires non-free software somehow to work) and ``non-free`` (really non-free software). The latter includes the firmwares required e.g. by most wifi cards and making them works is as easy (once you know the trick) as googling "debian wiki ", finding out which firmware package you need to install from non-free, do so, and reloading a kernel module / rebooting. Other hardware that may be problematic of course is new hardware which requires a new kernel, and if you're not already using testing (as mentioned in the other email), usually there is always one in backports. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/20161218120538.r7bel7frdt3pipd7%40manillaroad.local.home.trueelena.org. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Re: Ubuntu on the Beagle
On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 2:40 AM, Elena ``of Valhalla'' < elena.valha...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 2016-12-15 at 14:49:25 -0700, William Hermans wrote: > > Debian, and Ubuntu use different init daemons, at least the last I > > read. Although I've also read that Canonical was seriously considering > > switching to systemd, soon. > > Already happened, in 15.04 > I figured as much, but did not bother to look. > > They still use their own custom desktop environment unity and they are > still working on their own display server mir (which afaik they use in > the phone version of Ubuntu) > I never used Unity. I have used Lubuntu(LXDE) 14,04, have it installed on an old laptop in fact. I think it rivals the desktop of Windows, and is very good for that sort of thing. > > Also, Debian uses systemd by default in the linux archs, but still > supports sysV init and iirc openrc (altought the latter is probably used > by just a handful of people). Using Upstart as in Ubuntu was available > as another choice (and possibly still is), but since its developement > has been stopped by upstream (Canonical) it's probably going to die away. > > So, there are several "Debian without systemd" websites out there that are dedicated to instructing a user to remove systemd, and reinstall SysV. I've personally done this in the past, but I think more people out there that are old school probably do not want to deal with systemd - At least initially. I do understand why, as it's a serious pain having to try and figure something out, that you already know how to do another way. But documentation now seems to be much better, and it's not too hard figuring things out now. That's my take on it anyhow. Anyway, I've been using Debian a lng time - Since the 90's. That and my hands on experience with Ubuntu also goes back a long ways. Furthest back I remember is 8.xx, but possibly further back. On a, or for a "desktop", now days Ubuntu does not seem all that terrible. But I do recall the days where you couldn't trust Ubuntu to do much of anything. Personally, I think for the beaglebone, Ubuntu is useless. Definitely, on the cmd line, it's not easier to use than Debian. On an x86 Desktop *maybe*, but only because there is a much better out of the box experience. Then stuff like LXDE + Cairo was easy on 14.04, where it would turn into a hair pulling "festival" attempting the same thing on Debian. I'm of the opinion however, if you're running X on Debian . . .well then you're doing it wrong, or you're using the wrong distro. Simply, because there are other more "cutting edge" distro's out there that will have a much better desktop experience. Ubuntu is one, and Sabayon( Gentoo based ) is another. Others yet, seem to like LMDE( Mint ) . . . and I know a few who think that Kali is something to be used as a desktop . . .heh. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/CALHSORqZ3cTK3J%3DYSWWaQB%3DcZRXEeNs4nX5Q5o9E_8O6uCTXaA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Re: Ubuntu on the Beagle
On 2016-12-15 at 14:49:25 -0700, William Hermans wrote: > Debian, and Ubuntu use different init daemons, at least the last I > read. Although I've also read that Canonical was seriously considering > switching to systemd, soon. Already happened, in 15.04 They still use their own custom desktop environment unity and they are still working on their own display server mir (which afaik they use in the phone version of Ubuntu) Also, Debian uses systemd by default in the linux archs, but still supports sysV init and iirc openrc (altought the latter is probably used by just a handful of people). Using Upstart as in Ubuntu was available as another choice (and possibly still is), but since its developement has been stopped by upstream (Canonical) it's probably going to die away. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/20161218094049.3tcquqiv53qdosfe%40manillaroad.local.home.trueelena.org. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Re: Ubuntu on the Beagle
On 2016-12-15 at 02:02:29 -0800, Heinz Hummel wrote: > I don't know what the reason is but I personally prefer Ubuntu because it > is easier to use, it has a bigger community which is more responsive and > more friendly and one can choose to use a LTS version (and stay with older > software) or a normal version (and get newer software). Debian seems to be > LLLTS only... Debian people who need newer software tend to use one of two approachs. One is using testing, which is usually reliable enough to be used in daily work, altought sometimes there are issues and having another working installation to run in an emergency helps. This is what I do with my workstation, except for the first few months after a stable release, when testing tends to be quite in flux (and the software in stable is not that old). The other one is adding backports_ to a stable system and only install those few softwares that are actually needed in a newer version: this is generally much safer as you're sure that the basic OS is not going to break and it's what I'm using on my servers. .. _backports: https://backports.debian.org/ As for the community, in my experience the Debian one may be somewhat smaller, but it's quite technical and thus equally likely to be able to help in case of problems, and it also includes a number of ex or mostly-ex ubuntu people who got back into Debian when they realized that the aims of Canonical weren't really aligned with their interest any longer. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/20161218093156.oyhwpo7dyfluufch%40manillaroad.local.home.trueelena.org. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Re: Ubuntu on the Beagle
On Fri, 12/16/16, Heinz Hummel wrote: Subject: Re: [beagleboard] Re: Ubuntu on the Beagle To: beagleboard@googlegroups.com Date: Friday, December 16, 2016, 8:02 AM I have the feeling, in Ubuntu forums people expect a (somewhat high) minimum level of knowledge, elsewhere you will not be taken seriously. I mean Debian forums of course... -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/CAHptrU4XBmm7EB5F7PDPy%2BuM7btEZQsG0a6xC2jF7R%2BQtKoBsQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. stetica maioresciana a avut un adversar si in persoana lui Constantin Dobrogeanu-Gherea sustinator al artei cu tendinta iar din punct de vedere politic adept al social-democratiei. Ideile sale se fac cunoscute prin paginile revistei Contemporanul . -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/23035898.204706.1481886882623%40mail.yahoo.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Re: Ubuntu on the Beagle
> > I have the feeling, in Ubuntu forums people expect a (somewhat high) > minimum level of knowledge, elsewhere you will not be taken seriously. > I mean Debian forums of course... -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/CAHptrU4XBmm7EB5F7PDPy%2BuM7btEZQsG0a6xC2jF7R%2BQtKoBsQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Re: Ubuntu on the Beagle
2016-12-15 20:52 GMT+01:00 William Hermans : > > > On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 3:02 AM, Heinz Hummel > wrote: > >> I don't know what the reason is but I personally prefer Ubuntu because it >> is easier to use, it has a bigger community which is more responsive and >> more friendly and one can choose to use a LTS version (and stay with older >> software) or a normal version (and get newer software). Debian seems to be >> LLLTS only... >> >> > The above is 100% FUD. Ubuntu is not easier to use, it's even based on > Debian, and the community is not larger. > > Oh wow...are you on a personal or religious mission where I affronted you? This is just my personal impression and also when you have a different opinion, this is my opinion and will stay my opinion. Try to ask a question when you are not a 99% linux crack in both, a Debian and a Ubuntu forum and you will see what I mean. I have the feeling, in Ubuntu forums people expect a (somewhat high) minimum level of knowledge, elsewhere you will not be taken seriously. On the other hand Ubuntu (at least on desktop systems) supports more hardware from scratch than Debian, Fedora and CentOS/RHEL. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/CAHptrU6EXWYboYKpxy1Gn7fYs33jLdVespTXatoB_VAx%2ByQ-0Q%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Re: Ubuntu on the Beagle
>From a practical perspective. Ubuntu has support for packages that Debian may not have in the stable release. Both Debian, and Ubuntu use APT as a package repository manager. But they have different repositories. Canonical tends to support more cutting edge technologies in their software, were the Debian team tends to opt out of the latest greatest software for system stability. In both cases, it shows. Debian is a go to Distro when you need something to be rock solid reliable. A more "no frills" approach. This however does not mean Debian is not useful. Quite the contrary, Debian is thought of as the go to Distro for many server applications. Some even prefer to use it as their desktop OS. Ubuntu is a go to Distro for systems that may be running newer( current ) hardware, that may not be supported by another distros out of the box. Ubuntu is also good for desktop like situations. Where someone may want an OS that "just works", and looks good, with desktop hardware acceleration. In the past, Ubuntu had been known as very flaky. e.g. in many cases Ubuntu was not very reliable. Now days, perhaps that has changed *some*. Debian, and Ubuntu use different init daemons, at least the last I read. Although I've also read that Canonical was seriously considering switching to systemd, soon. Anyway, Ubuntu is based off Debian. So you can think of Ubuntu as Debian with different features that may not have been put through the rigorous Debian testing cycle. Which by the way is why Debian is behind the curve for software, and hardware support. If something does not "make the grade" within a certain time frame, then that something does not make it into the next stable release of the distro. Which many, many people prefer. On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 12:52 PM, William Hermans wrote: > > > On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 3:02 AM, Heinz Hummel > wrote: > >> I don't know what the reason is but I personally prefer Ubuntu because it >> is easier to use, it has a bigger community which is more responsive and >> more friendly and one can choose to use a LTS version (and stay with older >> software) or a normal version (and get newer software). Debian seems to be >> LLLTS only... >> >> > The above is 100% FUD. Ubuntu is not easier to use, it's even based on > Debian, and the community is not larger. > > The difference is Ubuntu is developed by an organization whose goals are > different than those of the Debian team. Ubuntu is more geared towards the > desktop experience, which it does very well. Where Debian is geared towards > reliability. Which it also does very well. > -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/CALHSORonW67EcBV67bu4b%3DYqnvGdEvYM035oBKqJrYegoEe91A%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Re: Ubuntu on the Beagle
On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 3:02 AM, Heinz Hummel wrote: > I don't know what the reason is but I personally prefer Ubuntu because it > is easier to use, it has a bigger community which is more responsive and > more friendly and one can choose to use a LTS version (and stay with older > software) or a normal version (and get newer software). Debian seems to be > LLLTS only... > > The above is 100% FUD. Ubuntu is not easier to use, it's even based on Debian, and the community is not larger. The difference is Ubuntu is developed by an organization whose goals are different than those of the Debian team. Ubuntu is more geared towards the desktop experience, which it does very well. Where Debian is geared towards reliability. Which it also does very well. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/CALHSORp_0rR%3DfRGFfs8VQFHTvv9m2e7DUCWjtOYXomSTowZ7uA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[beagleboard] Re: Ubuntu on the Beagle
I don't know what the reason is but I personally prefer Ubuntu because it is easier to use, it has a bigger community which is more responsive and more friendly and one can choose to use a LTS version (and stay with older software) or a normal version (and get newer software). Debian seems to be LLLTS only... Am Donnerstag, 15. Dezember 2016 06:58:00 UTC+1 schrieb John Dammeyer: > > The web page http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu is a link to putting > Ubuntu on the Beagle. What it doesn't say is why? Why not stay with > Debian Jesse? I like the lxqt interface far less than lxde. And to be > truthful I like the Raspberry Pi XWindows installation the best. Does > Ubuntu add something to make it easier to use? > > -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/e2c99595-b1aa-4fac-97b6-87322b743f3e%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
