Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
> "asmith9983" == asmith9983 writes:
asmith9983> I've found the site:-
asmith9983> [redacted]
asmith9983> very useful for things I've worked on for examples.
Sir, I'm personally offended by you. The authors of the materials you've just
posted an indirect link for worked hard to produce those materials, and get
far less money for their result than you probably imagine. Some of them even
frequent forums such as this mailing list, trying to provide you the help you
need. What is their incentive to produce future books, if only to be pirated,
assisted by people like you.
That you would even *consider* to *assist* in the piracy of such books,
offends me deeply. Have you no ethics?
Please, don't post such links in the future. Ever. I don't care that it's
not your link site. I don't care that it's probably trivial to find such
sites with a search engine. You personally shouldn't be helping with the
problem. You should be a good guy.
{sigh}
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
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Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
Dermot wrote: >2009/4/8 Richard Hobson : >> On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:50 -0400, "Chas. Owens" >> wrote: > Amazon US has "Intermediate Perl" new for $25, >> while Amazon UK has it for $46, excluding postage. > > >It's £30.99 and postage is free if you accept standard 2nd class delivery. 30.99 GBP in USD is *drumroll* $46. http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=30.99+gbp+in+usd -- James Coupe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
2009/4/8 Richard Hobson : > On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:50 -0400, "Chas. Owens" > wrote: Amazon US has "Intermediate Perl" new for $25, > while Amazon UK has it for $46, excluding postage. It's £30.99 and postage is free if you accept standard 2nd class delivery. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intermediate-Perl-Randal-L-Schwartz/dp/0596102062/ref=pd_sim_b_3 You can also get used ones for under £20. If you do consider this route, try and establish what edition of the book your buying. I ended up with (another) copy of Object, References and Modules when I wanted the latest edition, now titled 'Intermediate-Perl'. Recycling like this method might also enhance your 'green' credentials as well :) Dp. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
RE: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
Richard Hobson wrote: > So, I've done the "Learning Perl" book, and frustrating myself no end > by trying to write a chess program using just the knowledge contained > in "Learning Perl" and with no modules. > I thought about getting "Intermediate Perl", but I've heard that > "Programming Perl" is the best next step. > But, what's the advantage of "Programming Perl" when we have "perldoc"? > What does the book give me that perldoc does not? A chess program sounds ambitious for a first program in a new language, but more power to you. :-) Download and install perlindex -- it is a perldoc wrapper script that provides search and reading capabilities: http://search.cpan.org/~ulpfr/perlindex-1.502/perlindex.PL The perldoc tutorials are excellent and I've learned a lot from them, but I see four books as the essential library for competence in Perl: 1. Learning Perl -- this is the first-level instruction book that gets you up the initial learning curve. Read it cover to cover, enter the code, and do the exercises. I recall pounding the first one-third in one day, and most of the rest in under a week: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596520106/index.html 2. Perl Cookbook -- this is a source book of example Perl code, organized by topic/ task. The code is idiomatic, and the explanations are excellent. This book will give you the understanding and confidence you need to start writing useful Perl scripts. Buy this book as soon as you finish Learning Perl. You will want to keep it nearby whenever you code. I read the first edition cover to cover, but it's meant to be a random-access reference: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596003135/index.html 3. Programming Perl -- this is the language reference manual. Use it to look things up when you need the hard-core explanation. I'd suggest also buying this book as soon as you finish Learning Perl. It too is a keeper. I believe I've read (only) both the 2nd and 3rd editions cover to cover once each -- gnarly, but unnecessary for ordinary proficiency: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596000271/index.html 4. Intermediate Perl -- this is the second-level instruction book that takes you from writing scripts to writing functional- and object-oriented programs and libraries. After this book, you will know how to make good use of the thousands of Perl modules available on CPAN and elsewhere. You can hold off on this one until you feel the need: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596102067/index.html As you work your way through the above and beyond, perldoc will be your primary information source for the modules that you choose. Other resources include source code and the community. As an aside, I find that I am the most comfortable with Perl on a Unix platform (I prefer Debian GNU/Linux). Other platforms can make things more difficult. HTH, David -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
I've found the site:- http://www.pdf-search-engine.com/perl-pdf.html very useful for things I've worked on for examples. I would say, if you find a book thats good show respect to the author ande purchase a copy. -- Andrew in Edinburgh Scotland On Wed, 8 Apr 2009, Brian J. Miller wrote: Richard Hobson wrote: So, I've done the "Learning Perl" book, and frustrating myself no end by trying to write a chess program using just the knowledge contained in "Learning Perl" and with no modules. Interesting first choice, but okay... Was there something in particular that you are getting hung up on? I thought about getting "Intermediate Perl", but I've heard that "Programming Perl" is the best next step. I'd disagree and say that your suggestion of Intermediate Perl would be the next best step. But, what's the advantage of "Programming Perl" when we have "perldoc"? What does the book give me that perldoc does not? A book. Some descriptions are more in depth and having a book with a table of contents and index can often be easier to reference when you don't know *where* to look in perldoc, but much of the information will be the same. (Any number of sites and Google can help with where to look.) Thanks, Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
One other thing: http://perldoc.perl.org/ is an excellent way to read the docs online (searchable too), and it provides pdf versions of almost everything. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
On Wed Apr 08 2009 @ 1:08, Richard Hobson wrote: > But, what's the advantage of "Programming Perl" when we have "perldoc"? > What does the book give me that perldoc does not? One thing that nobody has mentioned is that Programming Perl hasn't been updated since Perl 5.6. There have been two major releases since that, and we're now at 5.10. Your system probably has some version of 5.8 if it's relatively recent. In many ways, the big picture is probably still the same, and many of the docs probably haven't been rewritten either, but the docs for your installation should be closer to the Perl you're actually working with. I second the recommendation that you look through the tutorials in perldoc. Many are excellent and perfect for intermediate development. I especially recommend these: perldoc perlreftut (How to make and use references) perldoc perllol (Arrays of arrays, more complex data structure) perldoc perldsc (All kinds of complex data structures) perldoc perltoot (Introduction to OO programming in Perl, not to OO itself) perldoc perlretut (Regular expression tutorial) perldoc perlopentut (How to open things in Perl - it's much more fun than it sounds) Hope this helps, T -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 08:57, Richard Hobson wrote: > On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:50 -0400, "Chas. Owens" > wrote: >> Your whois information suggests that you live in the US; I am always >> amazed to hear fellow Americans say things like "that book is >> expensive." We have a wonderful lending library system in this >> country, use it. If your local library does not have the 3rd Edition >> of Programming Perl, then ask you librarian to order a copy. They >> generally want to help you. > > Actually, no. I live in the UK, and price for O'Reilly books here are > significantly higher. Amazon US has "Intermediate Perl" new for $25, > while Amazon UK has it for $46, excluding postage. Also, I live in a > relatively small town in Scotland, whose libraries tend not to purchase > obscure programming books on demand. > > Look, I'm not after pity. I just want advice about which book to get. > > Cheers, > Richard > And I am not offering pity, but a method to get what you need. You may be able to get books through intra/inter-library loan, talk to your local librarian. -- Chas. Owens wonkden.net The most important skill a programmer can have is the ability to read. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:50 -0400, "Chas. Owens" wrote: > Your whois information suggests that you live in the US; I am always > amazed to hear fellow Americans say things like "that book is > expensive." We have a wonderful lending library system in this > country, use it. If your local library does not have the 3rd Edition > of Programming Perl, then ask you librarian to order a copy. They > generally want to help you. Actually, no. I live in the UK, and price for O'Reilly books here are significantly higher. Amazon US has "Intermediate Perl" new for $25, while Amazon UK has it for $46, excluding postage. Also, I live in a relatively small town in Scotland, whose libraries tend not to purchase obscure programming books on demand. Look, I'm not after pity. I just want advice about which book to get. Cheers, Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:08:41 +0100, Richard Hobson wrote: > But, what's the advantage of "Programming Perl" when we have "perldoc"? > What does the book give me that perldoc does not? In earlier editions, the only difference was footnotes. Later editions have more significant differences but I do not have one at hand to be more specific. I *think* that at least one chapter in the Camel is not in perldoc. -- Peter Scott http://www.perlmedic.com/ http://www.perldebugged.com/ http://www.informit.com/store/product.aspx?isbn=0137001274 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 08:42, Richard Hobson wrote: snip > OK. I'll probably stick with perldoc and get "Intermediate Perl". I'm > currently unemployed, so I can't really fork out for both books right > now - but I have plenty of time to learn Perl! snip Your whois information suggests that you live in the US; I am always amazed to hear fellow Americans say things like "that book is expensive." We have a wonderful lending library system in this country, use it. If your local library does not have the 3rd Edition of Programming Perl, then ask you librarian to order a copy. They generally want to help you. -- Chas. Owens wonkden.net The most important skill a programmer can have is the ability to read. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
Richard Hobson wrote: > Thanks Brian > > On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:37 -0400, "Brian J. Miller" >> Interesting first choice, but okay... Was there something in particular >> that you are getting hung up on? > > Yeah, the complexity of chess! I'm getting there. I do miss a lot of > short-cuts and efficiencies in Perl that would help, but this is a good > exercise to learn Perl. > "Miss a lot of short-cuts" as in they aren't in Perl, or you just haven't found them? Can you give a for instance? >> I'd disagree and say that your suggestion of Intermediate Perl would be >> the next best step. >> >> A book. Some descriptions are more in depth and having a book with a >> table of contents and index can often be easier to reference when you >> don't know *where* to look in perldoc, but much of the information will >> be the same. (Any number of sites and Google can help with where to >> look.) > > OK. I'll probably stick with perldoc and get "Intermediate Perl". I'm > currently unemployed, so I can't really fork out for both books right > now - but I have plenty of time to learn Perl! > Sorry to hear that, I once felt that "Perl" stood for "Paid Employment Recently Located" after finding a job during the last bubble burst. You might try a local library, or depending on your location a Perl Mongers group or Linux Users Group, in which case someone is likely to have a copy you can borrow. Additionally if you look at "perldoc perl" you will get a list of docs, reviewing the "tutorials" there, particularly on objects, references, and modules (the original name of Intermediate Perl) will get you more advanced quickly. http://www.pm.org/ - for Perl Mongers groups HTH and good luck, -- Brian J. Miller End Point Corp. http://www.endpoint.com/ br...@endpoint.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 08:37, Brian J. Miller wrote: snip >> I thought about getting "Intermediate Perl", but I've heard that >> "Programming Perl" is the best next step. >> > > I'd disagree and say that your suggestion of Intermediate Perl would be > the next best step. snip I would say both are the next step. You need the Camel to look things up and the Alpaca to help understand the things you find and to give you guidance on what to look for in the Camel. -- Chas. Owens wonkden.net The most important skill a programmer can have is the ability to read. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
Thanks Brian On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:37 -0400, "Brian J. Miller" > Interesting first choice, but okay... Was there something in particular > that you are getting hung up on? Yeah, the complexity of chess! I'm getting there. I do miss a lot of short-cuts and efficiencies in Perl that would help, but this is a good exercise to learn Perl. > I'd disagree and say that your suggestion of Intermediate Perl would be > the next best step. > > A book. Some descriptions are more in depth and having a book with a > table of contents and index can often be easier to reference when you > don't know *where* to look in perldoc, but much of the information will > be the same. (Any number of sites and Google can help with where to > look.) OK. I'll probably stick with perldoc and get "Intermediate Perl". I'm currently unemployed, so I can't really fork out for both books right now - but I have plenty of time to learn Perl! Cheers, Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
Thanks Brian On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:37 -0400, "Brian J. Miller" > Interesting first choice, but okay... Was there something in particular > that you are getting hung up on? Yeah, the complexity of chess! I'm getting there. I do miss a lot of short-cuts and efficiencies in Perl that would help, but this is a good exercise to learn Perl. > I'd disagree and say that your suggestion of Intermediate Perl would be > the next best step. > > A book. Some descriptions are more in depth and having a book with a > table of contents and index can often be easier to reference when you > don't know *where* to look in perldoc, but much of the information will > be the same. (Any number of sites and Google can help with where to > look.) OK. I'll probably stick with perldoc and get "Intermediate Perl". I'm currently unemployed, so I can't really fork out for both books right now - but I have plenty of time to learn Perl! Cheers, Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
Re: "Programming Perl" vs perldoc
Richard Hobson wrote: > So, I've done the "Learning Perl" book, and frustrating myself no end by > trying to write a chess program using just the knowledge contained in > "Learning Perl" and with no modules. > Interesting first choice, but okay... Was there something in particular that you are getting hung up on? > I thought about getting "Intermediate Perl", but I've heard that > "Programming Perl" is the best next step. > I'd disagree and say that your suggestion of Intermediate Perl would be the next best step. > But, what's the advantage of "Programming Perl" when we have "perldoc"? > What does the book give me that perldoc does not? > A book. Some descriptions are more in depth and having a book with a table of contents and index can often be easier to reference when you don't know *where* to look in perldoc, but much of the information will be the same. (Any number of sites and Google can help with where to look.) > Thanks, > Richard > -- Brian J. Miller End Point Corp. http://www.endpoint.com/ br...@endpoint.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
"Programming Perl" vs perldoc
So, I've done the "Learning Perl" book, and frustrating myself no end by trying to write a chess program using just the knowledge contained in "Learning Perl" and with no modules. I thought about getting "Intermediate Perl", but I've heard that "Programming Perl" is the best next step. But, what's the advantage of "Programming Perl" when we have "perldoc"? What does the book give me that perldoc does not? Thanks, Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
