Re: PERL vs. PHP?

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

OK.  My apologies.  Perhaps a better way to phrase my question would be:
What are the differences between PERL and PHP?  What are PERL's strong
points over PHP?  I would much rather convince this guy that PERL is just as
good or better than have to learn another language!

Thanks,
Josh


- Original Message -
From: "David U." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: PERL vs. PHP?


> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Hi!  I'm just learning PERL, and I love it so far!  A friend of mine
> > wants help with a project that involves moving data to and from a
> > MySQL database via the web, but he wants to find someone who can do
> > it using PHP.  He said that he heard that PHP is faster and more
> > powerful.  Is this true?  Are there other advantages to PHP over
> > PERL?  Are there advantages to PERL over PHP?
>
> Yes, PHP is better.
>
> We all use Perl because we enjoy using inferrior and slower tools.
>
> This is dumbest question I've ever seen posted, by the way.
>
> It's like asking a Ford-fan club if they like Chevy better.
>
> -davidu
>
>



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RE: PERL vs. PHP?

[Beau E. Cox]

Oh boy -

You shouldn't ask a question like that to a bunch of
perl mongers! :)

Maybe more powerful, maybe not.
yes and yes.

I have coded web pages in php for many years before
I got into perl - I like perl better for
one simple reason:

I can get more done in a given amount of time with perl
than I can with php.

This is not to say it is for everyone, but when I am able
to choose my environment, I almost always go for perl
unless there are overriding reasons not to.

Good luck.

Aloha => Beau.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:perl@;vidriot.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 4:00 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: PERL vs. PHP?


Hi!  I'm just learning PERL, and I love it so far!  A friend of mine wants
help with a project that involves moving data to and from a MySQL database
via the web, but he wants to find someone who can do it using PHP.  He said
that he heard that PHP is faster and more powerful.  Is this true?  Are
there other advantages to PHP over PERL?  Are there advantages to PERL over
PHP?

Thanks!

Josh



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Re: PERL vs. PHP?

[Jenda Krynicky]

> Hi!  I'm just learning PERL, and I love it so far!  A friend of mine
> wants help with a project that involves moving data to and from a
> MySQL database via the web, but he wants to find someone who can do it
> using PHP.  He said that he heard that PHP is faster and more
> powerful.

While it may be faster under some circumstances I would not say it's 
more powerfull. The number of modules for Perl is definitely much 
bigger than for PHP. Plus PHP is only supposed to be used from Web, 
while Perl is a general purpose language. Actually I do not remember 
when was the last time I did use it for web.

> Is this true?  Are there other advantages to PHP over PERL?

I guess PHP is a little simpler.

Jenda
= [EMAIL PROTECTED] === http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz =
When it comes to wine, women and song, wizards are allowed 
to get drunk and croon as much as they like.
-- Terry Pratchett in Sourcery


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Re: PERL vs. PHP?

[George Schlossnagle]

While it may be faster under some circumstances I would not say it's
more powerfull. The number of modules for Perl is definitely much
bigger than for PHP. Plus PHP is only supposed to be used from Web,
while Perl is a general purpose language. Actually I do not remember
when was the last time I did use it for web.


Actually alot of effort has been applied recently to making PHP a 
general purpose scripting language.  It now installs a cli 
out-of-the-box (that doesn't stick HTTP response headers at the top of 
every output) and the php-gtk stuff is making alot of progress.

I'd weigh in on Perl being more powerful, having a larger library set, 
and having much cleaner namespace semantics.  But PHP is a much less 
mature language than Perl, and it is coming into it's own.


// George Schlossnagle
// Principal Consultant
// OmniTI, Inc  http://www.omniti.com
// (c) 240.460.5234   (e) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
// 1024D/1100A5A0  1370 F70A 9365 96C9 2F5E 56C2 B2B9 262F 1100 A5A0


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Re: PERL vs. PHP?

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Beau and Jenda,

Thank you so much for your kind responses.  This clears up alot for me (and
makes me feel a bit better about being a part of this list!)

Thanks,
Josh



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Re: Perl vs. PHP?

[Martin Hudec]

Hi all,

well I use Perl and sometimes PHPdifferences for me are these...

PHP is good for small web projects such as small e-commerce,
guestbooks etc. applications.

Perl is excellent for big web projects such as portals, mainly because
it is more integrated into system than PHP, also you can use more
system functions...etc. Oh, and i use Perl often in Linux
administration to write scriptscurrently we are developing
standalone Windows application with GUI in Perl :

-- 
Best regards,
 Martin  mailto:corwin@;corwin.sk


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Re: Perl vs. PHP?

[Matthew C. Peterson]

My take:

PHP -
many glorious "built-in" functions
easily embedded into HTML
simple to learn, easy to read
simpler documentation
very fast
practically made for database driven sites
more lengthy than perl
weaker system commands
at home on any system


Perl -
many glorious "modules"
difficult to learn, but totally worth it
slightly complex documentation
more powerful than PHP
faster than PHP
not as quick for web development, but a bit more robust
more at home in *nix environment (could be wrong here...)

My background - PHP Web application developer - 3yrs
OOP-OOD - 2yrs
Perl Person - 2 yrs

On the  whole, I use PHP for database driven web pages, and Perl for system
tasks, back-end applications, backups, etc...(everything else).

Matt

- Original Message -
From: "Martin Hudec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Perl vs. PHP?


> Hi all,
>
> well I use Perl and sometimes PHPdifferences for me are these...
>
> PHP is good for small web projects such as small e-commerce,
> guestbooks etc. applications.
>
> Perl is excellent for big web projects such as portals, mainly because
> it is more integrated into system than PHP, also you can use more
> system functions...etc. Oh, and i use Perl often in Linux
> administration to write scriptscurrently we are developing
> standalone Windows application with GUI in Perl :
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Martin  mailto:corwin@;corwin.sk
>
>
> --
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Re: Perl vs. PHP?

[Nigel Wetters]

PHP is a good templating language, similar to ASP, JSP, etc.

The problem with templating languages is that they're too good. It's
always tempting for the programmer to introduce yet another small piece
of logic into a page.

It extremely difficult with these templating languages to abstract the
various layers of a moderately complex application.

Many applications can be split into three layers (model, view, and
controller). The model is the underlying structure of your data, which
won't differ whether you're accessing the data through the web, the
command line, or a GUI. The view is a thin skin which presents the model
on a particular platform (HTML, text, Tk, etc.). The controller
validates user input, and decides what happens next. Templating
languages are excellent for building the view layer

Using mod_perl and template toolkit, or servlets and JSP, or COM and
ASP, it's easy to write applications with clear boundaries between
layers. With only the templating language, the model and controller are
forced into the view layer, which soon becomes unmaintainable.

However, PHP is fine for building quick and dirty webpages, which is
what most people want.
-- 
Nigel Wetters, Senior Programmer, Development Group
Rivals Digital Media Ltd, 151 Freston Road, London W10 6TH
Tel. 020 8962 1346 (direct line), Fax. 020 8962 1311
http://www.rivalsdm.com/ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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RE: Perl vs. PHP?

[NYIMI Jose (BMB)]

Totally aggree with you Nigel.
To complete, some of you may give a look to :
http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/06/05/cgi.html

Which uses a clear separation between the 3 layers mentioned by Nigel.

José.

> -Original Message-
> From: Nigel Wetters [mailto:nigel.wetters@;rivalsdm.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:19 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Perl vs. PHP?
> 
> 
> PHP is a good templating language, similar to ASP, JSP, etc.
> 
> The problem with templating languages is that they're too 
> good. It's always tempting for the programmer to introduce 
> yet another small piece of logic into a page.
> 
> It extremely difficult with these templating languages to 
> abstract the various layers of a moderately complex application.
> 
> Many applications can be split into three layers (model, 
> view, and controller). The model is the underlying structure 
> of your data, which won't differ whether you're accessing the 
> data through the web, the command line, or a GUI. The view is 
> a thin skin which presents the model on a particular platform 
> (HTML, text, Tk, etc.). The controller validates user input, 
> and decides what happens next. Templating languages are 
> excellent for building the view layer
> 
> Using mod_perl and template toolkit, or servlets and JSP, or 
> COM and ASP, it's easy to write applications with clear 
> boundaries between layers. With only the templating language, 
> the model and controller are forced into the view layer, 
> which soon becomes unmaintainable.
> 
> However, PHP is fine for building quick and dirty webpages, 
> which is what most people want.
> -- 
> Nigel Wetters, Senior Programmer, Development Group
> Rivals Digital Media Ltd, 151 Freston Road, London W10 6TH
> Tel. 020 8962 1346 (direct line), Fax. 020 8962 1311 
http://www.rivalsdm.com/ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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RE: Perl vs. PHP?

[NYIMI Jose (BMB)]

Use PHP Smarty if you want to separate application logic and presentation logic.

See : http://smarty.php.net/manual/en/what.is.smarty.html

José.

> -Original Message-
> From: NYIMI Jose (BMB) 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:32 PM
> To: Nigel Wetters; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Perl vs. PHP?
> 
> 
> Totally aggree with you Nigel.
> To complete, some of you may give a look to : 
> http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/06/05/cgi.html
> 
> Which uses a clear separation between the 3 layers mentioned by Nigel.
> 
> José.


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Re: PERL vs. PHP?

[Adriano Allora]

Is this true?  Are there other advantages to PHP over PERL?


I guess PHP is a little simpler.

Jenda



yes, yes!, I think so: i've worked with PHP and it is (very) simpler.
but my idea is that you can make more with perl.

adr


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Re: Perl vs PHP

[WC -Sx- Jones]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why would one prefer PHP over PERL, or vice, versa?  I'm guessing PERL has more 
functionaltiy and is more robust.  What are the technical arguments for one over the 
other?
JP
LOL  :)  And I wanted to avoid this same line as fas as Expect was 
concerned.

"PHP is a Server-side HTML-embedded cross-platform scripting langauge" 
(that was a quote from Ramus Lerdorf, PHP creator; IIRMYQC.)

I Use both PHP and Perl (I use expect too but that is way OT here.)

Once upon a time there were things that PHP could do that were cludgey 
in Perl - this is no longer the case.

However on the reverse, there are MANY things that Perl can do that PHP 
cannot easily do.

Perl IMHO is a SysAdmin language and PHP is and more or less always will 
be a WEB lanaguage.

PHP supports clearer variable level/depth abstraction (called dynamica 
variables), Perl supports more obtuse coding styles.

PHP vars could look like:

$var = "Hello";
$$var = "World";
In reality this has become $hello = "world";

echo "$var ${$var}";

You'll have to read PHP coding books too see why this is the case...

In Perl, we have DualVars:

use strict;
use warnings;
use Scalar::Util "dualvar";
my $ans = dualvar 42, 'The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything';
printf("\nas number = '%d', as string = '%s'\n", $ans, $ans);
my $que = dualvar 54, 'What do you get when you multiply 6 by 9';
printf("\nas number = '%d', as string = '%s'\n", $que, $que);
But like I said in the past, each language has its own strengths.

LOL  =)
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Re: Perl vs PHP

[Ron B]

Why would one prefer Pepsi over Coke, or vice versa? :) That's the 
answer to your question.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why would one prefer PHP over PERL, or vice, versa?  I'm guessing PERL has more 
functionaltiy and is more robust.  What are the technical arguments for one over the 
other?
JP


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RE: Perl vs PHP

[NYIMI Jose (BMB)]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 3:01 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Perl vs PHP
> 
> 
> Why would one prefer PHP over PERL, or vice, versa?  I'm 
> guessing PERL has more functionaltiy and is more robust.  
> What are the technical arguments for one over the other? JP

Got from
http://www.masonbook.com/book/chapter-1.mhtml#TOC-ANCHOR-13



It is important to understand some of the properties of PHP before
deciding to use it. One of the design goals of PHP is to be as simple as
possible to install and start using, and in some cases this means that
features that experienced Perl programmers rely on are not present. For
instance, PHP lacks support for private namespaces, there is no way to
create three-tiered applications that separate business logic and
presentation code, and there is no mechanism for creating reusable code
modules. The Apache mod_php module is only a content generation module,
so it cannot cooperate with other request phases in the same way Mason
can cooperate with mod_perl's authentication or filename translation
phases.3 Importantly, although there is a lot of user-contributed code
in the PHP world, it cannot match the breadth and depth of Perl's CPAN.
It has often been said that the CPAN is Perl's "killer app," and
programmers most appreciate the CPAN when they least expect it. 

Finally, although you can theoretically use PHP for general-purpose
programming, it wasn't designed for that. PHP is typically used only for
embedding PHP code into templates, whereas Perl is a full-featured
programming language used for more purposes than any single programmer
could imagine. While this does make PHP well-suited for the common tasks
of web scripting, it may be limiting. For instance, a certain Perl
programming friend was recently contracted to write a "simple shopping
cart system" that had one small addition: it had to do some horribly
complex optics calculations. For situations like these, a
general-purpose programming language like Perl can be quite handy. 





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Re: Perl vs PHP

[Jan Eden]

Ron B wrote on 22.04.2004:

>Why would one prefer Pepsi over Coke, or vice versa? :) That's the
>answer to your question.
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>Why would one prefer PHP over PERL, or vice, versa?  I'm guessing
>>PERL has more functionaltiy and is more robust.  What are the
>>technical arguments for one over the other? JP
>

This implies that programming/scripting languages differ not more than softdrinks. 
Interesting. So by knowing (a little) Perl, I can program also Fortran and Cobol! I 
never knew that. Thanks Ron! ;)

Jan
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vacuum cleaners.

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Re: Perl vs PHP

[u235sentinel]

hehehe... You might be surprised.

While IANACY (I an not a coder... yet!), I have dabbled with other 
languages.  The last 6+ months I've been studying Perl programming 
intending to push into coding.  I've seen code in other languages (C for 
example) and much of it looks very similar to Perl.  If I didn't look 
closer I would have mistakenly said it was Perl code ::grinz::

Even though languages are very different in what they can do, they have 
many similarities.



Jan Eden wrote:

Ron B wrote on 22.04.2004:

 

Why would one prefer Pepsi over Coke, or vice versa? :) That's the
answer to your question.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   

Why would one prefer PHP over PERL, or vice, versa?  I'm guessing
PERL has more functionaltiy and is more robust.  What are the
technical arguments for one over the other? JP
 

This implies that programming/scripting languages differ not more than softdrinks. Interesting. So by knowing (a little) Perl, I can program also Fortran and Cobol! I never knew that. Thanks Ron! ;)

Jan
 

Re: Perl vs PHP

[WC -Sx- Jones]

Jan Eden wrote:
This implies that programming/scripting languages differ not more than softdrinks. Interesting. So by knowing (a little) Perl, I can program also Fortran and Cobol! I never knew that. Thanks Ron! ;)


I can say from personal expereince that if you can program in
Perl you can *definitely* program in COBOL  ;)
they are no more different than a keg of flat versus
a can of mountain dew.
quantity over quality
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Re: Perl vs PHP

[Wiggins d Anconia]

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Why would one prefer PHP over PERL, or vice, versa?  I'm guessing
PERL has more functionaltiy and is more robust.  What are the technical
arguments for one over the other?
> > JP
> > 
> 

> 
> Perl IMHO is a SysAdmin language and PHP is and more or less always will 
> be a WEB lanaguage.
> 

PLEASE, do not pigeon hole Perl like that, you should know better!

Calling Perl a systems language maybe, but not a SysAdmin language, Perl
programmers everywhere are "rolling over in their graves and they aren't
even dead yet" (Andrew Dice Clay, yeh I know, so shoot me, I watch a lot
of movies)

Helping sys admins with their mundane tasks more robustly than plain
shell, Perl does very well, but its abilities certainly go well beyond
these types of tasks.

http://danconia.org

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Re: Perl vs PHP

[JupiterHost.Net]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

That's what I was looking for, thanks!
Jason
No problem! Lots of good info out there :)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Why would one prefer PHP over PERL, or vice, versa? 
Both are powerful, Perl is more mature is much more flexible.
PHP is a bloated resource hog also (Any program can be if badly written) 
but PHP increases dramatically Apache's footprint and memory usage to 
get its "features".

> I'm guessing PERL has more functionaltiy and is more robust.

Yes


What are the technical arguments for one over the other?
As a server admin and support manager, 95% of our "script" related 
problems are with PHP and "Perl" issues are  usually just a permission 
issue...

PHP is run as a compiled Apache module which makes it a trifle faster to 
 run natively, but I don't feel that it is a big advantage. If I really 
need the extra 10ms I'll use mod_perl or PersistentPerl to accomplish 
the same thing, only cheaper, faster, and with Perl :)


JP
I'm sure others will have some info also, but generally I only use PHP 


if there is a premade system, like phpBB, that does what I need and is 
provided with the host (IE think cPanel) (and only after ruling out an 
existing Perl version ;p). Anything I am responsible for making sure is 
working well and doing its job I create in Perl...

Just my .02

Lee.M - JupiterHost.Net





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Re: Perl vs PHP

[JupiterHost.Net]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Why would one prefer PHP over PERL, or vice, versa? 
Both are powerful, Perl is more mature is much more flexible.
PHP is a bloated resource hog also (Any program can be if badly written) 
but PHP increases dramatically Apache's footprint and memory usage to 
get its "features".

> I'm guessing PERL has more functionaltiy and is more robust.

Yes

What are the technical arguments for one over the other?
As a server admin and support manager, 95% of our "script" related 
problems are with PHP and "Perl" issues are  usually just a permission 
issue...

PHP is run as a compiled Apache module which makes it a trifle faster to 
 run natively, but I don't feel that it is a big advantage. If I really 
need the extra 10ms I'll use mod_perl or PersistentPerl to accomplish 
the same thing, only cheaper, faster, and with Perl :)

JP
I'm sure others will have some info also, but generally I only use PHP 
if there is a premade system, like phpBB, that does what I need and is 
provided with the host (IE think cPanel) (and only after ruling out an 
existing Perl version ;p). Anything I am responsible for making sure is 
working well and doing its job I create in Perl...

Just my .02

Lee.M - JupiterHost.Net

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Re: Perl vs PHP

[JupiterHost.Net]

Wiggins d Anconia wrote:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Why would one prefer PHP over PERL, or vice, versa?  I'm guessing
PERL has more functionaltiy and is more robust.  What are the technical
arguments for one over the other?
JP



Perl IMHO is a SysAdmin language and PHP is and more or less always will 
be a WEB lanaguage.



PLEASE, do not pigeon hole Perl like that, you should know better!

Calling Perl a systems language maybe, but not a SysAdmin language, Perl
programmers everywhere are "rolling over in their graves and they aren't
even dead yet" (Andrew Dice Clay, yeh I know, so shoot me, I watch a lot
of movies)
Helping sys admins with their mundane tasks more robustly than plain
shell, Perl does very well, but its abilities certainly go well beyond
these types of tasks.
I'll second that emotion :)

http://danconia.org

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Re: Perl vs PHP

[WC Jones]

> > Perl IMHO is a SysAdmin language and PHP is and more or less always will 
> > be a WEB lanaguage.
> > 
> 
> PLEASE, do not pigeon hole Perl like that, you should know better!

PHP isn't only a web scripting language anymore either.

Things progress ... the future is upon us.

-Sx-  :)


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Re: Perl vs PHP

[Wiggins d Anconia]

> > > Perl IMHO is a SysAdmin language and PHP is and more or less
always will 
> > > be a WEB lanaguage.
> > > 
> > 
> > PLEASE, do not pigeon hole Perl like that, you should know better!
> 
> PHP isn't only a web scripting language anymore either.
> 
> Things progress ... the future is upon us.
> 

True, but I have less desire to advocate PHP, so just left it off
completely...

http://danconia.org

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