RE: Neutersol / not my choice
Andrea, Thanks for your informative post. I've been doing my own research into neutersol. It was good to hear about this product from an informed source like you. My research thus far tells me that the longterm effects of this medication are completely unknown and unproven. Worse, longterm effects seem to have been completely ignored in an effort to get this product in public use promptly. I could only find or learn about one (1) documented study on this product prior to FDA approval. (I've never been a huge fan of the FDA anyway). Out of a control group of 270, only 224 male puppies aged 3 mos to 10 mos finished the study. Follow-up on these pups was ONLY done three (3) times post injection: at 3 days, two months and six months. Shorterm effects are commonly vomiting, anorexia, lethargy, diarrhea, scrotal pain and inflammation. The product does show a very high success rate for sterilization - that's about the only truly positive thing I could find. Anyone who wants to read about the actual study done, here's that website: http://www.neutersol.com/Study.htm You can be certain this is not a product I would use on any dogs in my care until there is a LOT more proven information, especially with regards to longterm impact. My personal thought was exactly what you pointed out: Neutersol is a product for use on 'throw-away dogs' top remove them from the gene pool. This product will probably be used by shelters to replace neuter surgeries, in the interest of a vet's time (the overall shelter investment is likely lowered by using neutersol versus surgery). I imagine this will be one primary way many shelters will use to insure a dog is neutered after it leaves their shelter. The few vets I've spoken with about this product consider it an 'at risk' medication since there are so many unkowns associated with its use. -Esther Wilson WilPowerKennels.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com
RE: Bad Breeders in BMDCA vs Lancaster County
Dawn wrote: << There ARE puppymills inside the BMDCA. Should we boycott that organization? I'll wager to bet real money that BMDCA puppymills (& BYBs) produce more Berner pups than Lancaster county. >> Dawn, Thus far, I refused to involve myself in these online discussions about Lancaster County / BMDCA Specialty. Like many others on this list, I'm fairly new and still forming opinions. And frankly, I am learning a LOT about the 'old Berner people' just by reading their posts both here and on other lists like the BMDCA list. Thinking of your readers (many newbies) on the Berner-L, I absolutely cringed when I read your comments. Your statement noted above was plain bad information. And worse, I feel Berner-L is an inappropriate place for your post. BMDCA chat? Yes, definitely. Berner-L? No. And since you posted it on the Berner-L, I am compelled to present some facts that will balance your obviously 'heat of the moment'comments. I don't want newbies and others to be misguided by bad information about a topic they're not really involved in. My proof is here: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ac/publications.html If you scroll down that webpage, you'll see a list titled 'Facility Lists'. Underneath are links to the USDA/APHIS governed/licensed entities involved with animals and breeding. Go to Pennsylvania on each list. Judging by sheer volume, I find it tough to believe the BMDCA has more unethical breeders than could be found in the Lancaster County area. >From that information, it is completely illogical to believe that BMDCA members who are unethical breeders could've possible produced a larger volume of dogs than unethical breeders in Lancaster County. Just using AKC numbers, last year 958,503 dogs were registered and only 2,567 of those were Berners. That ratio alone disproves your theory, as I'm positive Lancaster County doesn't reserve their breedings to Berners alone (thankfully). Please understand I have no doubt about unethical breeders belonging to the BMDCA. I know a few. But facts show your statement, as posted, is very incorrect. MY POINT is that anyone who posts here should be mindful that this Berner-L is an environment where newbies and others would be guided by what you write. I am NOT posting any position I may have regarding Lancaster County as a possible location for a BMDCA Specialty. I strongly feel the Berner-L is a very inappropriate place to post comments related to BMDCA heated discussions. I believe there's a more appropriate list for BMDCA related debates and discussion than the Berner-L. That would be the BMDCA list. Anyone outside the BMDCA who needs that information should inquire through the proper channels. I hope every newbie and 'oldie' will read my post and consider it in future. And for newbies reading this, I've had great experience belonging to the BMDCA. I am very supportive of the BMDCA, which is why I joined. But many people in this group have strong opinions and do not always agree. Kind Regards, Esther Wilson WilPowerKennels.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com
USDA's APHIS - Latest Release of Info
Post from Esther Wilson / Lavina, Montana: Following is a newest release by APHIS. I hope anyone who criticizes the USDA will read this. Yes, more could be done, but its nice to learn they're actively working at something constructive about commercial breeders. APHIS: USDA's Animal & Plant Health Service APHIS emails me regular updates on their activity. If you're interested in learning more about this and/or sign up to receive these same updates, here's their website: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/biotech/ Press Release Jim Rogers (202) 690-4755 Darby G. Holladay (301) 734-3265 RECENT USDA ANIMAL WELFARE ACT CASE ACTIONS RIVERDALE, Md., June 5, 2003--The U.S. Department of Agriculture's Animaland Plant Health Inspection Service has charged the following people and businesses with violations of the Animal Welfare Act: Jan. 10, 2003--Licensed animal dealer Rick Rowden in Meta, Mo. APHIS intends to show violations in the areas of housing and recordkeeping. Jan. 14, 2003--Unlicensed animal dealer Mark Landers of Promises Kept in Hartville, Mo. APHIS intends to show Landers operated without the required USDA license. Feb. 12, 2003--Licensed animal dealers Wanda McQuary, Randall Jones and Gary Jackson in Black Rock, Ark. APHIS intends to show a number of violations including some in the areas of veterinary care, recordkeeping and housing. Feb. 12, 2003--Licensed animal exhibitors Chris and Donia McDonald of McDonald's Farm in Peabody, Kan. APHIS intends to show a number of violations including some in the areas of veterinary care and housing. Feb. 25, 2003--Licensed animal dealers Dennis and Karla Franzen in Aurora, Mo. APHIS intends to show violations in the areas of veterinary care, housing and sanitation. March 10, 2003--Unlicensed animal exhibitor Edward B. Lake of Buckrite Deer Farms in Vienna, Mo. APHIS intends to show that Lake operated as an exhibitor without the required USDA license. March 10, 2003--Unlicensed animal dealer Greg Blackburn of Pet Shop in Dickinson, Texas. APHIS intends to show that Blackburn operated as an animal dealer without the required USDA license. April 11, 2003--Licensed animal exhibitor John Cuneo of Hawthorn Inc. in Grayslake, Ill., along with Thomas Thompson of Richmond, Ill., James Zajicek of Mesa, Ariz., John N. Caudill III of Sarasota, Fla., John N. Caudill, Jr. of Sarasota, Fla., and Walker Brothers Circus of Sarasota,Fla. APHIS intends to show these respondents violated the AWA in several areas including handling and veterinary care. The following cases have been closed through either settlement or hearing: Jan. 14, 2003--Tom Harvey of Safari Zoological Park in Cagey, Kan. Harvey settled his case with USDA by agreeing to a $10,000 fine, of which $5,000 is suspended providing there are no future violations of the AWA. Jan. 15, 2003--DEA Exotics, Inc. in Potosi, Wis. DEA Exotics, Inc. has been found guilty of violating the AWA. As a result, it must pay an $11,000 fine and cease and desist from violating the AWA. This decision can be appealed. Jan. 16, 2003--Gerald and Angeline Wensman of Highdarling Cattery and Highland Hills Kennels in Melrose, Mo. The Wensmans settled their case with USDA by agreeing to a $1,000 fine, all of which is suspended providing there are no future violations of the AWA over the next year. Feb. 12, 2003--Brandon and Larry Tuckett of Tuckett's Family Farm in West Warren, Utah. The Tucketts settled their case with the USDA by agreeing to a $35,500 fine, all of which is suspended providing there are no future violations of the AWA. They are also permanently disqualified from obtaining a USDA AWA license. Feb. 26, 2003--Matt Bennett in Cedar Grove, Wis. Bennett settled his case with USDA by agreeing to a $5,000 fine, all of which is suspended providing there are no future violations of the AWA. Also, Bennett is disqualified for 5 years from obtaining a USDA AWA license. Feb. 26, 2003--Steven Richard Dornin of Tiger Tales Productions. The AWA case against Dornin was dismissed without prejudice. USDA can reopen the case at a later date. March 14, 2003--University of Massachusetts in Amherst, Mass. The University settled its case with USDA by admitting it violated the AWA on several occasions. It also agreed to a $6,215 fine and a probationary period of 1 year during which time a failure to comply with certain regulations would trigger an additional fine of $20,000. March 14, 2003--Bobby and Kelly Hranicky of Tigers-R-Us in Yorktown, Texas.The Hranickys settled their case with USDA by agreeing to a $5,000 fine,all of which is suspended. Also, the Hranicky's USDA AWA license was revoked, and they are permanently disqualified from receiving another. April 21, 2003--BAX Global Inc. of Irvine, Calif. BAX Global Inc. settled its case with USDA by agreeing to a $17,480 fine. The APHIS animal care program conducts inspec
RE: Dogs and Bikes
Liz Murray wrote: << I was surprised to read about people attaching their dogs to their bikes . . . Do people do this alot? Just curious>> Liz, I've seen people do this a lot with dogs of every size. Those I've asked told me they believe it's great exercise for them and for their dog. Over a long period of time, a close friend of mine had two German Shepards, a Labrador Retreiver and then a Golden Retreiver and some mixed breed dogs - and those are just the ones I remember right now. One of her main purposes in having a dog was to accompany her on her weekly bike rides (when weather permitted). Every dog developed horrible orthopedics, most while at early ages. All dogs were eventually put down for this reason except one (that I can remember). She kept changing breeds thinking maybe it was just the breed or the pedigree involved. When it happened to the mixed breeds, too, the lightbulb turned on in her head that maybe that kind of exercise was harming her dogs. For myself, I wouldn't be concerned about the safety during the exercise so much as what it would do to my dog's orthopedics. I will never, ever subject any dog, much less a large breed dog like a Berner, to that kind of exercise. I learned this lesson from watching my friend and her dogs. Please know that I applaud anyone who has positive experiences bike-riding w/their dogs longterm: to each, her/his own experience. Cheers, Esther Wilson Lavina, Montana __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com
Test Post for Hugh - Please ignore
This is a test email post for Hugh.
Post in the UK's Daily Mirror
Please forgive me for posting a non-Berner-related post here in this Berner forum. I was certain most everyone on this list would appreciate this piece of recently published Journalism. As you read, keep in mind the Daily Mirror is one of the most notorious anti-American dailies in the UK. Tough to believe they actually printed this! "Begin article: by a British Journalist: ONE year ago, the world witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting: the mass murder of thousands, live on television. As a lesson in the pitiless crueltyof the human race, September 11 was up there with Pol Pot's Mountain of skulls in Cambodia, or the skeletal bodies stacked like garbage in the Nazi concentration camps. An unspeakable act so cruel, so calculated and so utterly merciless that surely the world could agree on one thing -- nobody deserves this fate. Surely there could be consensus: the victims were truly innocent,the perpetrators truly evil. But to the world's eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as America's come-uppance [deserved reprimand or punishment]. Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the last year. There has always been a simmering resentment to the USA in this country -- too loud, too rich, too full of themselves and so much happier than Europeans - but it has become an epidemic. And it seems incredible to me. More than that,it turns my stomach. America is this country's greatest friend and our staunchest ally. We are bonded to the US by culture, language and blood. A little over half a century ago, around half a million Americans died for our freedoms, as well as their own. Have we forgotten so soon? And exactly a year ago, thousands of ordinary men, women and children -- not just Americans, but from dozens of countries -- were butchered by a small group of religious fanatics. Are we so quick to betray them? What touched the heart about those who died in the twin towers and on the planes was that we recognized them. Young fathers and mothers, somebody's son and somebody's daughter, husbands and wives. And children. Some unborn. And these people brought it on themselves? And their nation is to blame for their meticulously planned slaughter? These days you don't have to be some dust-encrusted nut job in Kabul or Karachi or Finsbury Park to see America as the Great Satan. The anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame the Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering from power-envy, bitter that the world's only superpower can do what it likes without having to ask permission. The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since September 11. Remember, remember! Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say, "I love you," before they were burned alive. Remember those people leaping to their deaths from the top of burning skyscrapers. Remember the hundreds of firemen buried alive. Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was on one of the planes with her mum. Remember, remember -- and realize that America has never retaliated for 9/11 in anything like the way it could have. So, a few al-Qaeda tourists got locked up without a trial in Camp X-ray? Pass the Kleenex. So, some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily fired their semi-automatics in a sky full of American planes? A shame, but maybe next time they should stick to confetti. AMERICA could have turned a large chunk of the world into a parking lot. That it didn't is a sign of strength. American voices are already being raised against attacking Iraq - that's what a democracy is for. How many in the Islamic world will have a minute's silence for the slaughtered innocents of 9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass murder of 9/11 was an abomination? When the news of 9/11 broke on the West Bank, those freedom-loving Palestinians were dancing in the street. America watched all of that -- and didn't push the button. We should thank the stars that America is the most powerful nation in the world. I still find it incredible that 9/11 did not provoke all-out war. Not a "war on terrorism." A real war. The fundamentalist dudes are talking about "opening the gates of hell" if America attacks Iraq. Well, America could have opened the gates of hell like you wouldn't believe. The US is the most militarily powerful nation that ever strode the face of the earth. The campaign in Afghanistan may have been less than perfect and the planned war on Iraq may be misconceived. But don't blame America for not bringing peace and light to these retched countries. How many democracies are there in the Middle East, or in the Muslim world? You can count them on the fingers of one hand -- assuming you haven't had any chopped off for minor shoplifting. I love America, yet America is hated. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle. But I would rather be a dog in New Yo
Re: Fussy Puppy/& breeders diet guidelines
Michael wrote: << Why should a puppy have to continue to eat something she actively dislikes with the exception of live preserving medication? Why? Because the breeder said so? With all due respect to all the breeders out there, but surely diet recommendations should be just that - recommendations. To facilitate matters for both puppy and new owner. To make it a STIPULATION what another person's dog - and yes, if the puppy has been sold it IS another person's dog -should and shouldn't eat is dictatorial and is taking matters too far. What a breeder chooses to feed his own dogs isn't gospel nor should it be. I think we can safely say that there is more than one decent brand of dog food on the market and that many dog owners are a lot more educated about diet than some breeders. >> Michael, As a breeder, I read your post and cringed. From a PO perspective, you made some points I'm certain many POs would make. I've been a PO. And I'm now a breeder. Things look much different from a breeder's perspective. I was glad to read that you understand the concept of quality food versus non-quality food and that there are many diet chocies available. But it was apparent you do not understand the impact a specific food choice can have versus another food choice on a growing large breed puppy. Further, growth rates can vary depending on pedigrees. A wise breeder will know which foods/diets work best with the pedigrees they breed. This is why a PO should pay close attention to their breeder's diet recommendations. Equally, a good breeder will understand the value of working with a PO toward a diet the puppy/dog prospers on. And this should be done with the understanding that one diet choice probably may not be the permanent solution. A good breeder will have many experienced alternatives to suggest and be most concerned about finding a good solution for that puppy. >From talking w/many other breeders, I find a common pet peeve for breeders is when a PO decides to'do their own thing' about diet choices. Then they return to the breeder (or rescue puppy placer) at a later date, and ask why is their dog's ortho or gastric system or fur coat, etc. all messed up (as if they are not at all responsible for the food choices they made which helped create the situation). Your point is well made about the ownership of the dog: certainly the PO is the owner. But my point here is that if that PO respected that breeder enough to purchase a puppy from, then perhaps an intelligent response should be to also respect diet choices from that respected breeder, too. The question is not 'who has the power to make the decision'. The question is 'who is better qualified to make the decision'. Having said that, if I were a regular PO who bought a puppy from a breeder, and that breeder absolutely refused to work with me about diet choices that my puppy would actually eat, then I'd be a PO who found another quality breeder to mentor me about diet choices. And I would listen to them, realizing they are more qualified about Berner diet than me. I hope I wouldn't be ignorant enough to think I knew best about diet for my puppy irregardless of what either breeder told me. And if they don't have the answer, its unlikely that I, as a regular PO, would have a better answer. At that point, I would seek the help of a professional, licensed canine nutritionist (NOT a vet). A good breeder spends much time educating POs on everything from diet, to crate training, to behavior problem-solving, etc. It can be exhaustive, especially when you consider how many POs a breeder deals with. While the PO has the ownership and daily decisions to make, its a wise PO who chooses a good breeder to mentor them in these things. And that's a puppy with a great chance at a happy future. If your dogs have prospered on whatever you've fed them, and you've never returned to your breeder with diet-related problems, good for you and great for your dogs. But let me assure you that there are plenty of POs where the opposite is true. Just chatting from another viewpoint, Esther Wilson Wilpower Kennels __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Euthanasia vs Rehabilitation
Lemme try this post AGAIN!! Sorry... Eileen wrote: <<...it is in best interests of the dog and club for the dog to be fostered by someone knowledgeable, but, please keep in mind sometimes there really is only one real option for the sake of the dogs and the people involved>> Eileen, I feel you made some valid points. Rescue is often a project left to the willing, not necessarily to the qualified. When I first started in it some 25+ years ago (my how time flies!), I was only willing and completely unqualified. I've lost count of how many times I've been bitten by an aggressive animal, usually a large dog. Trial and error, plus seeking trained counsel has helped me further my own education in rehabilitating large dogs. And I'm still learning, but at least its been awhile since I've been bitten =) Its a personal conviction of mine that anyone wanting to breed (or own) any dog or cat should first volunteer in a shelter for a long period of time. Even a couple of hours per week can make a huge difference. And during their shelter time, that person should have to hold several healthy, lovable, adorable dogs and cats as they are euthanized solely because they lack a good home and/or they have temperament/health issues. And then help dispose of their sad remains. I know the impact that has had on MY life and especially on my breeding perspective. Also, I feel one of the best ways to learn how to rehabiliate a poorly behaved dog is to learn from others in rescue work. So if anyone reading this has an interest in becoming a resource to help a problematic dog become rehabiliated, you're likely to find some good re-training resources through your local shelter (or club). My $0.02, Esther Wilson WilPower Kennels Lavina, Montana http://www.wilpowerkennels.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Euthanasia vs Rehabilitation
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---* * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * *Mail Lists at Prairienet only accept PLAIN TEXT* * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RE: Rescue BMD w/"issues" needs help
Vilma wrote: << The issue of "aggression" (an often overused and misused term which actually covers a very wide range of behaviors) seems to be getting more and more common in our breed. I would love to get together a group of Berner lovers, ideally w/ an interest in training/behavior, who are willing to help these dogs on a one on one basis, supporting each other in these endeavors, etc.>> Vilma, I completely agree with your statement above. Further, as more and more Berners are commercially and BYB produced, I feel we will see a steady population increase of BMDs with poor temperaments and health issues flooded into a market not prepared and/or unwilling to deal with their problems. A great many people seem to complain about this situation but, so far as I can see, the only major projects acting as real, viable deterrents are BARC, breeders who protect the BMD gene pool and the BMD clubs/people who pro-actively educate about BMD health and temperament issues. (This is one reason I feel its important to be supportive of my local and parent BMD Clubs). Adult BMD Rescue is just one more step in protecting the BMD breed, and I feel its a job which is only going to get bigger with time. As a breeder, I feel offering Rescue is an inherent part of my personal responsibility to participate in where possible. While the Berner you mentioned is too far away for my help (and sounds like you have him covered anyway), I am ready and willing to support whatever BMD Rescue and Rehabilitation efforts I can in my area (Montana/Wyoming/Dakotas). I have many years' experience rehabilitating large homeless and abandoned dogs and successfully re-homing them.This is a personal passion of mine. This means I'm happy to participate in any BMD Rescue/Rehabilitation effort you create so long as I can cover BMDs found/released in my area. And I already spend a LOT of effort online educating PPOs and others who contact me for more info about this wonderful breed. Please mark me down as a BMD Rescue contact in Montana, Wyoming and Dakotas. I'm willing to drive anywhere in these states if necessary to help a Berner in need.And I know a few other BMD people in Montana who feel the same commitment as me. Kind Regards, Esther Wilson WilPower Kennels Lavina Montana http://www.wilpowerkennels.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Camp Collie in Shelby Montana
Shelley wrote: <> Shelley, Thanks for bringing the Camp Collie event in Shelby to my attention! Thank goodness for the Berner-L. Guess I need to watch more TV as your post was the first I've heard of it. I've made some phone calls and looks like some friends are going up there to help. I hope to get up there on Monday and possibly Tuesday. Are you going to be there? Thanks, Esther Wilson http://www.wilpowerkennels.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
RE: Vicky Whitney's Boy Questions
OMG, Vicky, I haven't laughed that hard in ages. Thank you. If anyone (any adult) missed that post on the Berner-L #4123, it's well worth going back to read (even if only for the chuckle you'll get). And Vicky, I'd like to take your topic on a brief, non-berner detour. Here in the wilds north of Billings, Montana, I've been a tad alarmed at the number of wierd animal sounds coming occasionally from the forest around us. This is especially alarming at night. My Tibetan Mastiff goes nuts over it sometimes. So I've actually gone out to find the source of the noises but without success. Upon casual inquiry of some longtime locals, one being the cattle rancher whose property adjoins ours, I learned its been rutting (mating) season for many species of the local wildlife. Thankfully, I'd already lived through his annual cattle breeding season with my only incident being when I had a superb 'mexican stand-off' with a thoroughly aroused bull in the middle of my road. It was a long few minutes before he decided that (1) I wasn't a cow and (2) I wasn't another bull. Whereupon my hubby said, of course, 'Welcome to the country'. I'm told the noises from the forest should stop soon. Sigh. Cheers, Esther Wilson http://www.wilpowerkennels.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
RE: Skeletal Diseases of the Growing Dog
I'm responding here to Sharon's post in Berner-L 4113. Sharon, I hope I have not advocated the theory that orthopedic clearances should be eliminated if nutrition is correct. Certainly, that is not my view. I feel orthopedic clearances are a very important, very useful tool in breeding decisions and should be pursued in responsible breeding programs. Of course, I'm in learning mode about breeding decisions - as I hope we all are. By your using the term 'overfed', its apparent I need to clarify that malnutrition, by definition, is not limited to under or over feeding an animal on a gross volume level. Very often, malnutrition is the result of improper balancing of dietary components. If you've never seen the effects of improper balance in a growing dog's diet, then you're in for a shocker. They can look like genetic freaks. I've yet to meet a berner breeder (or any other breeder) who makes breeding decisions based solely on nutrition with total disregard to OFA or other factors. But I'm a fairly new breeder, and haven't met everyone yet. At this point, I admit this type of breeder seems irresponsible to me. Kind Regards, Esther Wilson http://www.wilpowerkennels.com __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
hip and elbow dysplasia and rationalizations
Mary-Ann wrote: << Is it POSSIBLE that some who are most convinced that nutrition is a cause of dysplasia are attempting to rationalize breeding >> Mary-Ann, Its my personal thought that you're attempting to dissect something into black and white that has no absolutes. The variables are as many as there are breeders. I'm certain there are breeders who hope to hide behind nutrition as a reason for HD and/or other skeletal diseases. I'm equally certain there are dogs who have skeletal disorders solely due to malnutrition during growth stages (because I've seen them and know the professional diagnosis). There are so many factors in canine skeletal development that it's implausible to group every abnormality in every situation and stick one generic label on the entire lot (i.e., all skeletal disorders are from genetics, all skeletal disorders are from malnutrition, all skeletal disorders are from environment, all skeletal disorders are from Mars). Allowance must be made for the various factors unique to each situation. Perhaps a solution here lies in the breeder using personal integrity as well as sufficient breeding program insight with objectivity to make breeding decisions. Always assuming, of course, the breeder's goal is to ultimately improve the breed and not just create more berner puppies. As a new breeder, I'm reading all these recent posts and making notes. I find the diverse information interesting and potentially useful. Friendly flames only, please. Bernerly, Esther Wilson http://www.wilpowerkennels.com __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
Skeletal Diseases discussion
Jenn Popp wrote: <> Amen! Thanks Jenn, great point. I wish more people understood this fact as it relates to growing large breed puppies. Bernerly, Esther Wilson http://www.wilpowerkennels.com __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
Newbie Carol's Post: Skeletal Diseases (Food Choices)
Carol Wrote: << Nobody has mentioned what to feed or how to feed the Berner dog. I'm sure there are as many opinions on that subject as the other.>> Carol, You brought up a great point for an obvious newbie. And you're right - there are MANY opinions on what to feed a berner. Many are valid, some aren't. My suggestion is for you to first discuss food choices for your berner with your berner's breeder. If you respected that breeder enough to purchase their dog/puppy, then you should also respect that breeder's food choices for your dog. Even in berner-dom, certain pedigrees are known to work better with certain diets. Experience is a plus. Having said that, remember not all food choices that breeders make are absolutes. If food choices that your breeder suggests obviously do not work for your berner (i.e., the dog has severe gastric upset continually, will not eat that food, etc), then go back to the breeder for an alternative food choice solution. As a last resort, if its simply not possible to work with your dog's breeder, find a different and very experienced berner breeder (or two) who has a record of successfully raising berners. Present your dog's situation and ask for a solution. I am a new breeder and there are many experienced breeders who currently will know far more about pedigrees and such than me. Many participate in this list. Those are the people I would refer you to if your breeder cannot/will not help. However, I am here if I can be of any support to you and your berner. Good Luck!! Esther Wilson http://www.wilpowerkennels.com __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
RE: Skeletal Diseases of the Growing Dog
Mary's excerpt from "Skeletal Diseases of the Growing Dog: Nutritional Influences and the Role of Diet" "Nutrition is one of the single most important factors affecting development of the musculoskeletal system, and energy, protein, and calcium are some of the more critical nutritional components affecting skeletal development. When given in excess, they can be detrimental to normal skeletal growth.(1-7) Most pet owners in the United States feed commercially prepared diets, which are balanced and complete. The vast majority of developmental skeletal disorders diagnosed in veterinary practice occur in large and giant breeds and are associated with excess (i.e., inappropriate) intake of a commercial diet and/or supplementation." Mary, your post noted above was ike a breath of fresh air to me. Thank you. I've been reading the recent Berner-L posts about HD and other skeletal development issues. It seems to me that most posts are very focused on slamming anyone who disagrees that genetics is THE key factor in HD and other skeletal abnormalities. And I feel this greatly diminishes an open forum for discussion with diverse views (which can be a great way to learn new things). Personally, I feel the issue of skeletal development and abnormalities is a bit like the Kibble versus BARF issue: there are no absolutes, only variances. Moreover, I've been appalled at the lack of correct information posted. Interestingly, there seems to be a large volume of personal assumptions displayed as fact in many posts. My concern here is that this type of psuedo-information can cause erroneous beliefs in newbies who would learn from this list. While most of the posts I've read seem to me to be screaming 'genetics is the largest role in HD', very few posts have addressed the serious effects that improper nutrition can also have on canine skeletal formation - whatever the genetics dictates. This may or may not be fact, depending on which studies one elects to quote, but its my personal belief that a genetically sound dog (orthopedically speaking) can be seriously effected adversely by improper nutrition during growth stages. Further, I personally believe the effects of improper nutrition during growth stages can cause all sorts of skeletal dysfunctions and abnormalities. And I've witnessed several of these dogs (unlrelated events) in my lifetime. Were these dogs genetic freaks? That was my thought the first time I saw one. I thought I was seeing a genetic mutant of some sort. Thankfully, a nutritionist friend began my education in the stunning effects improper nutrition can have on anyone/anything in a growth stage. And my nephew, the PhD in genetics from UC Davis with a masters in Nutrition, keeps me up to date on stuff he thinks would interest me. Before anyone misquotes me, NO, I am not saying nutrition is THE key to HD. I am saying that it is my personal opinion and experience that improper nutrition - including improper feeding and supplementation - can be a huge factor in improper skeletal formation during canine growth cycles. Items like overabundance or lack of calcium and other like items can have huge effects on skeletal growth. My heart went out to the person who posted that they fed exactly as the breeder suggested and the puppy still persented HD. I hope the breeder stood behind that puppy and respected your adherence to diet. I personally wish more POs respected their breeder's diet requests as that helps our efforts to breed and grow better dogs. Again, I personally feel there are no absolutes in our discussion here. And I'm hoping for a more open forum tolerant of differing views. It's a great way to learn. Bernerly, Esther Wilson http://www.wilpowerkennels.com __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
RE: Micro-Chip info
Melissa, I enjoyed your recent post about micro-chips.I always enjoy reading a vet's post. I thought you'd like access to some updated information available. Current Microchips on the market that I'm aware of include: AVID --->as you said, perhaps most commonly used Home Again (Destron) InfoPET (Trovan)--> used by ASPCA PetNet (Anitech) --> used often in Canada Registry and Recovery: Avid (Petrac) InfoPet(ASPCA) PetNet Indentichip -->official registry of the State of New Jersey AKC Companion Animal (AKC members) An excellent, concise article on micro-chips can be found at: http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww7eiii.htm I use AVID micro-chips on my animals and have for many years. As a breeder, every puppy is micro-chipped before it leaves my care. Microchips are a superb tool for making an animal easily identifiable in today's world, especially considering the microchip upgrades in recent years, And Melissa, I think you'd be pleased to learn that, today, almost all shelters utilize some form of microchip scanner per HSUS and ASPCA publications. These scanners are said to even be used in a significant number of informal rescue communities, too. Personally, I see a future where DNA registry will often replace the micro-chip just as the micro-chip now often replaces the tattoo. And I believe internet access will facilitate to make this type of identification extremely cost efficient for all rescue and recovery efforts. But, that's probably a few years down the road yet. Bernerly, Esther Wilson http://www.wilpowerkennels.com __ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
