Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
erland;659730 Wrote:
> Just for reference, scanning my MythTV recordings directory on a samba
> share with about 843 recordings took totally 14 hours.
>
Just for information, I tried a video scan again and this time it only
took 5-6 hours, so if something has been changed it now works a lot
faster than before, but it could maybe also be something in my setup, I
haven't investigated it in detail.
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
mherger;661360 Wrote: > > But do they need to be pre-cached? I can see the typical user > enabling > > photo scanning without realizing that it's going to double or triple > > the overall scan time, and then browse photos very rarely. > > This probably depends on the hardware you're using. If you're running > LMS > on bleeding edge hardware you might get away. But popular solutions > (old > hardware, NAS, Atom based servers) just don't have the power to resize > > images in acceptable speed when browsing. Those same slow server platforms are also going take a very large scanning performance hit. If someone has no need for browsing images and just wants to do slide-shows, then a pref to disable pre-caching may be worth implementing. I think the reason that it needs to separate from the music library pref is that music libraries are (or should still be) the main focus of the server, and people _will_ be browsing the music library in either the web or SP UI. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90573 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
mherger;661360 Wrote:
> > But do they need to be pre-cached? I can see the typical user
> enabling
> > photo scanning without realizing that it's going to double or triple
> > the overall scan time, and then browse photos very rarely.
>
> This probably depends on the hardware you're using. If you're running
> LMS
> on bleeding edge hardware you might get away. But popular solutions
> (old
> hardware, NAS, Atom based servers) just don't have the power to resize
>
> images in acceptable speed when browsing.
>
I thought those kind of devices weren't Logitech's priority ;-)
Windows and Mac's which your Revue loving management focus on should be
reasonable fast, shouldn't they ?
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
> But do they need to be pre-cached? I can see the typical user enabling > photo scanning without realizing that it's going to double or triple > the overall scan time, and then browse photos very rarely. This probably depends on the hardware you're using. If you're running LMS on bleeding edge hardware you might get away. But popular solutions (old hardware, NAS, Atom based servers) just don't have the power to resize images in acceptable speed when browsing. > Which brings up another question... What sizes of resized images are > being pre-cached for videos? Nobody is going to be browsing videos in > either the web UI or SqueezsePlay. Excellent point! -- Michael ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
JJZolx;661354 Wrote:
> But do they need to be pre-cached? I can see the typical user enabling
> photo scanning without realizing that it's going to double or triple
> the overall scan time, and then browse photos very rarely.
>
Not for reality, because you are only really going to use thumbnails
after you have browsed into an individual folder or a specific date and
in that context there aren't many images so generating the thumbnails on
demand should be fast enough. Only reason to cache them is to make it
look faster when demonstrating it in the store or at some other event.
JJZolx;661354 Wrote:
>
> Demo scenario? Demo of what?
>
Demo that you can browse and view photo library with the Revue.
JJZolx;661354 Wrote:
>
> If in reality something is used rarely, you need to balance the
> increased scanning time against the speed or inconvenience of
> generating those resized images on the fly. There's a performance pref
> that controls pre-caching of resized cover art for the music library. A
> couple of new prefs controlling pre-caching for photos and videos may be
> called for.
>
I completely agree.
In my mind it feels like nobody has actually thought about how the new
video and photo functionality should work in reality, it certainly
doesn't work in my libraries, but I guess I'm special who maintain
videos in my MythTV system and maintain photos in a photo management
program and categorize photos instead of giving them useful titles and
filenames. Neither MythTV nor my photo managing software writes any
tags to the actual photo files.
To me it feels something like:
- "Oh, we need to be able to display photos, let's make it possible to
browse them and view a specific photo"
But nobody continued the thought one step further they just assumed
that photo and video libraries can be handled exactly the same as music
libraries.
JJZolx;661354 Wrote:
>
> Which brings up another question... What sizes of resized images are
> being pre-cached for videos? Nobody is going to be browsing videos in
> either the web UI or SqueezsePlay.
>
And on top of this, nobody is going to be able to use the automatically
generated video thumbnails to find a specific video. If you want the
thumbnails to be useful they need to be the image used on the cover of
the DVD/Blueray or the one use in advertisements. The only scenario an
automatically generated thumbnail possibly could be useful is for home
video libraries recorded with your favorite camcorder, maybe that's
what LMS is for ?
--
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
erland;661352 Wrote: > I think there are three primary use cases: > 1. Find a specific image which you like to show a friend > 2. Show a predefined slide show which you have prepared in advance > 3. Continuously show random images from your photo library > > For 1 you definitely need thumbnails but my feeling is that most people > are just going to use a computer instead for this use case because it's > so much faster with the limited support for categorization that exists > in LMS. But do they need to be pre-cached? I can see the typical user enabling photo scanning without realizing that it's going to double or triple the overall scan time, and then browse photos very rarely. > But I still think removing thumbnails would be a bad idea because the > typical demo scenario, even if it's rarely going to be used in reality, > is going to be to show how you can browse through your photo library and > view a specific image. However, maybe it would be possible to make the > thumbnail generation optional, so you can select to turn it of if you > are only interested in viewing images as pre-defined or random slide > shows. Demo scenario? Demo of what? If in reality something is used rarely, you need to balance the increased scanning time against the speed or inconvenience of generating those resized images on the fly. There's a performance pref that controls pre-caching of resized cover art for the music library. A couple of new prefs controlling pre-caching for photos and videos may be called for. Which brings up another question... What sizes of resized images are being pre-cached for videos? Nobody is going to be browsing videos in either the web UI or SqueezsePlay. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90573 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
JJZolx;661349 Wrote:
> Are thumbnails really even necessary for images? I would think most
> people are going to be a) usually viewing images in some sort of
> slide-show mode, and b) very seldom browsing through the image
> library.
>
I think there are three primary use cases:
1. Find a specific image which you like to show a friend
2. Show a predefined slide show which you have prepared in advance
3. Continuously show random images from your photo library
For 1 you definitely need thumbnails but my feeling is that most people
are just going to use a computer instead for this use case because it's
so much faster with the limited support for categorization that exists
in LMS.
For 2 and 3 no thumbnails are needed, but 2 needs some kind of image
playlist support which currently doesn't exist. Ideally 3 needs some
kind of categorization support because typically I'm still going to
want to limit it to high quality images.
But I still think removing thumbnails would be a bad idea because the
typical demo scenario, even if it's rarely going to be used in reality,
is going to be to show how you can browse through your photo library and
view a specific image. However, maybe it would be possible to make the
thumbnail generation optional, so you can select to turn it of if you
are only interested in viewing images as pre-defined or random slide
shows.
--
erland
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
Are thumbnails really even necessary for images? I would think most people are going to be a) usually viewing images in some sort of slide-show mode, and b) very seldom browsing through the image library. Also, are the same sized thumbnails generated twice whenever image scanning is enabled in a music library - once for the media scan and once for precaching of covers? -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90573 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
If you guys want to do some experimenting, you can comment out the
various thumbnail options that are created for every image/video. This
is probably the source of most of the slowdown. I think I mentioned
this before, but right now each thumbnail is generated from the
full-res source. Music thumbnails are optimized and are generated from
the next-highest thumbnail size. This will be coming to image/video
thumbs too but I ran out of time.
Code:
--- Slim/Utils/Scanner/LMS.pm (revision 79850)
+++ Slim/Utils/Scanner/LMS.pm (local)
@@ -211,13 +211,13 @@
ignore_dirs => $ignore_dirs,
thumbnails => [
# DLNA
- { format => 'JPEG', width => 160, height => 160 }, #
for JPEG_TN
- { format => 'PNG', width => 160, height => 160 }, #
for PNG_TN
+#{ format => 'JPEG', width => 160, height => 160 }, #
for JPEG_TN
+#{ format => 'PNG', width => 160, height => 160 }, #
for PNG_TN
# SP
- { format => 'PNG', width => 41, height => 41 },#
jive/baby
- { format => 'PNG', width => 40, height => 40 },#
fab4 touch
+#{ format => 'PNG', width => 41, height => 41 },#
jive/baby
+#{ format => 'PNG', width => 40, height => 40 },#
fab4 touch
# Web UI large thumbnails
- { format => 'PNG', width => $prefs->get('thumbSize') ||
100, height => $prefs->get('thumbSize') || 100 },
+#{ format => 'PNG', width => $prefs->get('thumbSize') ||
100, height => $prefs->get('thumbSize') || 100 },
],
on_result => sub {
my $result = shift;
--
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
It'll get better, just like music, sorry. :) ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
Here's the performance that I see: Scanning new media files: G:\Television (3215 of 3215) Complete 00:11:30 Scanning new media files: G:\Movies (202 of 202) Complete 00:01:05 Discovering playlists: D:\slim\72\playlists (1 of 1) Complete 00:00:00 The server has finished scanning your media library. Total Time: 00:12:35 (Tuesday, September 27, 2011 / 10:07 AM) -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90573 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
My scan performance pictures is 10 times slower than music. Luckily I have a very modest picture collection, I'm not a hobby photographer it's basically just vacation pictures no more than 3020 pictures. Discovering files/directories: /media/music (35482 of 35482) Complete 00:02:15 Scanning new music files: /media/music (32158 of 32158) Complete 00:29:28 Scanning new media files: /media/music/Mina bilder (3020 of 3020) Complete 00:29:39 Discovering playlists: /media/music/Playlists (20 of 20) Complete 00:00:00 Scanning new playlists: /media/music/Playlists (19 of 19) Complete 00:02:12 Pre-caching Artwork (2476 of 2476) Complete 00:05:17 The server has finished scanning your media library. Total Time: 01:08:51 (2011/09/27 Tuesday / 23:06) -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD & SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90573 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
Just for reference, scanning my MythTV recordings directory on a samba
share with about 843 recordings took totally 14 hours.
It probably took a bit longer because the MythTV recordings directory
have a sub directory with soft links with user friendly name, so even
do it isn't able to scan the soft links it might have affected the
scanning time. I've unix_extensions turned off on the samba server so
the soft links should be exposed as standard files over samba but for
some reason that doesn't work with LMS. For the same reason it doesn't
work to point the media folder directly to the soft link directory
because then LMS doesn't find any recordings at all, I posted the
following bug about this soft links issue:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17596
The scanner found 742 of the 843 recordings but there are no errors in
the scanner.log, would be nice with some kind of error message when it
isn't able to scan a mpg file which obviously is there. I shouldn't
have to enable debug logging to find out which files it didn't succeed
to scan and some kind of error why it failed to scan/detect them.
I tried to start a new/changed rescan and that went very fast,
unfortunately it didn't find the recordings that have been added after
the full rescan, so it's still pretty useless.
For reference, the 3500 track FLAC music library (also on a network
share) on the same server takes about 2 minutes to scan and find all
the files successfully.
A MythTV recording directory is probably not the typical thing LMS is
supposed to serve, I guess, especially not from a Linux server, so
hopefully it works better for everyone else that have the typical video
directory which LMS is supposed to handle, whatever that is.
--
erland
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
Yeah, scanning performance has a lot of room for improvement. Images are slow because the current way thumbnails are being generated is not the fastest (always resizing from the original instead of the previous thumbnail). Same issue with video, although the original is usually much smaller than a multi-MP JPEG. Also for video we are limited by ffmpeg performance. -- andyg andyg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90573 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
Mnyb;659677 Wrote:
> Was that not a change after they introduced wal BMF is blocked during
> scan ? It was a bug where the scan was having trouble when someone bmf
> while SQlite was scanning in wal mode.
> the " solution " was apearentlybto block BMF .
>
Yes
Mnyb;659677 Wrote:
>
> is there a "real" browse folder mode for video or picture btw ?
>
I think so, pictures have a number of browse menus and one by folder
menu, for videos I just get "All videos" and "Video folder" and both
displays my videos in a flat list but I suspect the reason for that is
that I don't have any metadata in the video files, they are created by
MythTV which keeps the metadata in the MythTV database.
Still for me neither video nor picture support is good enough to really
be usable, both have too limited browsing for my typical usage.
Hopefully, it will still be good enough for most normal users who
probably doesn't expect as much as I do.
--
erland
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
erland;659674 Wrote: > It's up to 1142 of 1672 now 9 hours after I started it, my 3500 track > music library takes a few minutes to scan completely, so it's a big > difference between music and videos. > > The good news is that it is possible to browse the library via UPnP and > play videos while waiting, at least as long as you doesn't browse by > folder because browsing by folder doesn't show anything, I suspect it > will after the scanning has finished. > > Hopefully new/changed rescan works better for videos than for pictures, > for pictures it seemed to do a full rescan, probably because the > pictures were on a network drive (samba). Was that not a change after they introduced wal BMF is blocked during scan ? It was a bug where the scan was having trouble when someone bmf while SQlite was scanning in wal mode. the " solution " was apearentlybto block BMF . is there a "real" browse folder mode for video or picture btw ? -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD & SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90573 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
Mnyb;659661 Wrote:
> if it is going to take this amount of time .
>
> * it must be possible to browse folders while it's scanning and cue up
> that content video pictures or music
>
> * Playback should not break or stutter while scanning.
>
It's up to 1142 of 1672 now 9 hours after I started it, my 3500 track
music library takes a few minutes to scan completely, so it's a big
difference between music and videos.
The good news is that it is possible to browse the library via UPnP and
play videos while waiting, at least as long as you doesn't browse by
folder because browsing by folder doesn't show anything, I suspect it
will after the scanning has finished.
Hopefully new/changed rescan works better for videos than for pictures,
for pictures it seemed to do a full rescan, probably because the
pictures were on a network drive (samba).
--
erland
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
if it is going to take this amount of time . * it must be possible to browse folders while it's scanning and cue up that content video pictures or music * Playback should not break or stutter while scanning. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD & SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90573 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
I can't say I've tested it more than a couple of times on a small directory. I just have no interest in any of the media server functionality. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90573 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
[SlimDevices: Beta] LMS video/picture scanning performance ?
How is the picture and video scanning in LMS for everyone else ?
Video scanning seems to be very slow in my setup and picture scanning
is reasonably slow also, at least compared to music scanning.
Does everyone else see the same thing ?
Do you think the current scanning performance is acceptable ?
My MythTV video library has currently scanned for 4 hours and reached
511 of 1672.
I have both music, video and pictures on a network share, I wonder if
this is the reason that makes video/pictures slow even if the music
files still scan at reasonable speed.
--
erland
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