Re: [board-discuss] Re: Vote for MC elections
Hi, Cor Nouws wrote on 2011-11-07 23:14: Currently I'm not able to follow any discussion on numbers, but it would be my suggestion to accept Drew his kind offer to help in the MC still we need clarification if we need some more people. ;-) Florian -- Florian Effenberger Board of Directors at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Re: Vote for MC elections
Hi, 2011/11/8 Florian Effenberger > Hi, > > Cor Nouws wrote on 2011-11-07 23:14: > > Currently I'm not able to follow any discussion on numbers, but it would >> be my suggestion to accept Drew his kind offer to help in the MC >> > > still we need clarification if we need some more people. ;-) I think it would be perhaps ungraceful at this stage to refuse more people, although it's true that, on the other hand, we already have a working MC. It's not a practical matter here. best, Charles. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Re: Vote for MC elections
Hi Michael, all, 2011/11/8 Michael Meeks : > > On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 23:14 +0100, Cor Nouws wrote: >> Florian Effenberger wrote (07-11-11 12:11) >> > Ok. So I take it that you propose Simon and Norbert as seat holders, >> > which means we have one deputy role open at the moment? >> >> Currently I'm not able to follow any discussion on numbers, but it would >> be my suggestion to accept Drew his kind offer to help in the MC > > Right; but now we have another offer of a deputy. > > Either way - we should put this to a vote on the public list. > I offered my help as I thought form the discussions that more persons are really needed. If this is not really the case, I am fine with withdrawing my offer. Volker -- Volker Merschmann Member of The Document Foundation http://www.documentfoundation.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Fwd: Liaison between LO and Calligra project
Hi Thorsten, indeed, as you say so far discussion among the projects has been solved informally (actually my mail to Italo was rather informal as well). I think the members of the TC and the people that attend the plugfests do already carry that liaison role, but (like yourself) they are very busy people. And I would much rather have these people spend their time on writing specifications if the issues are already specified but just have implementation issues. That is not to say that I want you or anybody else to stop doing what comes informally and naturally (certainly not), but to have a tenacious bulldog appointed within these projects that makes sure that progress is made even if people are swamped. From where I stand (and I'm not part of any specific project) there are a number of interoperability issues at your end still open I think, although probably people within TDF are already working on these. Notably this includes the use of (legacy) SVM wrappers instead of native alternative ODF frames and the lack of support for frame alternatives and clarification of the range selection of clipboard content (the issue that was raised by Gnumeric in August, as you may recall). Also probably some other forward looking capabilities which provide answers to common interoperability issues - like RDF and SVG support, as well as font inclusion - deserve some attention as well. Even though ODF as a document format has plenty of traction, some specific parts such as ODF's 3D objects stand less of a chance to make it as the dominant standard in this area (given that there are far better and more widely used standards for 3D). In order to make the experience better for everyone and make at least the content portable/visible to other (less complete) implementations I think that should be made more robust by making sure there are standards based fallbacks (in SVG, PNG) for any such parts. Those are the kinds of things I would envision the liaisons to discuss. For people outside the project it is often not transparent who is responsible for what in other projects. Rather than asking people to just file a bug report, it would be good to have a named person in the project that is 'responsible' for this and that has regular contact. That is why I proposed to name a liaison - so there is an acknowledged channel to discuss practical areas of improvement. But of course it is just a suggestion. Best, Michiel On 11/07/11 09:57, Thorsten Behrens wrote: Michiel Leenaars: Would it be an idea to have a liaison between the Document Foundation and other projects such as Calligra, AbiWord/Gnumeric, with a named standards compliance person (and a fallback) within each project, which take care of monitoring and pushing fixes - given that breaking the standard is a severe thing that noone wants, and fixing such things is best done from the inside. Hi Michiel, hm - I wonder why we'd need this extra ceremony. From what I can tell, the problem is not acknowledging the problem, but actually fixing it. I've personally addressed a bunch of interop things myself, if and when my time permitted it (and usually made fixing those a priority over other equally important tasks). If beyond that there are urgent issues in LibO that you, or the other ODF-processing FLOSS projects deem important, I think the most promising avenue to success is to motivate hackers to come& fix those. Or is there a recent example where not having such a role was causing much trouble? Of course, talking with you, Jos, Ben& others from those projects on how to improve ODF interop should happen nevertheless - but does take place, works nice& well, often& informally. :) Cheers, -- Thorsten -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[board-discuss] Vote for MC ...
Hi Volker, On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 11:19 +0100, Volker Merschmann wrote: > >Either way - we should put this to a vote on the public list. > > I offered my help as I thought form the discussions that more persons > are really needed. If this is not really the case, I am fine with > withdrawing my offer. Sorry about that; thanks for volunteering & hopefully you'll stand for the next MC election ? :-) So I'd love the board to vote to approve (if I got it right, and the existing MC are generally happy) on: Members: (5) Andre Schnabel Fridrich Strba Norbert Thiebaud Simon Phipps Sophie Gautier Deputies: (2) Cor Nouws Drew Jensen For approval as our initial Membership Committee. Thanks, Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Vote for MC ...
Hi, 2011/11/8 Michael Meeks : > Hi Volker, > > On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 11:19 +0100, Volker Merschmann wrote: >> > Either way - we should put this to a vote on the public list. >> >> I offered my help as I thought form the discussions that more persons >> are really needed. If this is not really the case, I am fine with >> withdrawing my offer. > > Sorry about that; thanks for volunteering & hopefully you'll stand for > the next MC election ? :-) Yes of course, I do. Volker -- Volker Merschmann Member of The Document Foundation http://www.documentfoundation.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Vote for MC ...
Hi Volker, also sorry from my side and thanks for your offer to help. Indeed, it was my mistake to wrongly calculate the number of open slots. Since we specifically did not want elections now, but rather in the summer, I really do appreciate your offer to step back from your application. Thank you very much, and I really hope you stand again for the next elections. Florian *** This message has been sent from my tablet. Please excuse the possible briefness. Volker Merschmann schrieb: >Hi, > >2011/11/8 Michael Meeks : >> Hi Volker, >> >> On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 11:19 +0100, Volker Merschmann wrote: >>> > Either way - we should put this to a vote on the public >list. >>> >>> I offered my help as I thought form the discussions that more >persons >>> are really needed. If this is not really the case, I am fine with >>> withdrawing my offer. >> >> Sorry about that; thanks for volunteering & hopefully you'll >stand for >> the next MC election ? :-) >Yes of course, I do. > >Volker > > > > >-- >Volker Merschmann >Member of The Document Foundation >http://www.documentfoundation.org > >-- >Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to >board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org >Problems? >http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: >http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: >http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] On project leads and formal roles
Hello, thanks for clarifying that, Charles. Maybe a further explanation on why especially I am touchy about 'negotiations' with third parties: Legally, the Board of Directors can be held liable for these under certain circumstances, and that can include even negotiations before actual contractual obligations are made. So, as soon as it gets into these directions, approval from the BoD is mandatory, there are no exceptions. We will try to handle that as easy as possible, but still, I'd like to emphasize the need of involving the BoD and getting its aproval before negotiations on behalf of TDF take place. Florian *** This message has been sent from my tablet. Please excuse the possible briefness. "Charles-H. Schulz" schrieb: >Hello everyone, > >This is a short reminder about our policy concerning formal roles and >project team leads. >We usually refrain from making any sort of statement on whether this or >that team needs a project lead or doesn't need one. We believe that in >some >cases a team will need a lead and in some others, it won't. However any >lead elected by the team must understand that it is only an informal >role >that has been appointed by a social convention, and one that is easily >undone. > >The Document Foundation and the LibreOffice project acknowledges only >project contributors or TDF members; other, more formal roles are >described >in our bylaws. Similarly, a project team lead or a team cannot engage >in or >commit to working on itstelf with commercial entities for purposes >specific >to the team's work or the project team lead. In the unlikely event >where >such a question were to be seriously asked this needs to be decided >solely >by the BoD. > >Best regards, > >Charles-H. Schulz, >Member of the Board of Directors, >The Document Foundation. > >-- >Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to >board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org >Problems? >http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: >http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: >http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Vote for MC ...
+1 from my side A note to everyone who is nominated: Be aware that this is a legal role defined in the statutes. Most likely, we need to hand over your physical address to the authorities, since you legally represent TDF on some level then (e.g. in cases of disputes between the BoD and the members). TDF itself will only keep a safe record of your physical address, and shares it with the authorities. TDF will not publish it. Right now, neither the authorities will do so, but TDF of course has no influence on legal changes that might come up in the future regarding that. *** This message has been sent from my tablet. Please excuse the possible briefness. Michael Meeks schrieb: >Hi Volker, > >On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 11:19 +0100, Volker Merschmann wrote: >> >Either way - we should put this to a vote on the public >list. >> >> I offered my help as I thought form the discussions that more persons >> are really needed. If this is not really the case, I am fine with >> withdrawing my offer. > > Sorry about that; thanks for volunteering & hopefully you'll stand for >the next MC election ? :-) So I'd love the board to vote to approve (if >I got it right, and the existing MC are generally happy) on: > >Members: (5) > Andre Schnabel > Fridrich Strba > Norbert Thiebaud > Simon Phipps > Sophie Gautier >Deputies: (2) > Cor Nouws > Drew Jensen > > For approval as our initial Membership Committee. > > Thanks, > > Michael. > >-- >michael.me...@suse.com <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot > > >-- >Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to >board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org >Problems? >http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: >http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: >http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Vote for MC ...
On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 14:42 +0100, Volker Merschmann wrote: > Hi, > > 2011/11/8 Michael Meeks : > > Hi Volker, > > > > On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 11:19 +0100, Volker Merschmann wrote: > >> >Either way - we should put this to a vote on the public list. > >> > >> I offered my help as I thought form the discussions that more persons > >> are really needed. If this is not really the case, I am fine with > >> withdrawing my offer. > > > >Sorry about that; thanks for volunteering & hopefully you'll stand > > for > > the next MC election ? :-) > Yes of course, I do. > Hello Volker That's good to hear - I have no doubt you are a great fit for this role. Best wishes, Drew Jensen -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Vote for MC ...
Michael Meeks wrote: Members: (5) Andre Schnabel Fridrich Strba Norbert Thiebaud Simon Phipps Sophie Gautier Deputies: (2) Cor Nouws Drew Jensen +1 -- Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com mobile +39.348.5653829 VoIP +39.02.320621813 skype italovignoli -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Vote for MC ...
Michael Meeks wrote: > Members: (5) > Andre Schnabel > Fridrich Strba > Norbert Thiebaud > Simon Phipps > Sophie Gautier > Deputies: (2) > Cor Nouws > Drew Jensen > +1 Cheers, -- Thorsten -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Vote for MC ...
Le Tue, 08 Nov 2011 16:55:04 +0100, Italo Vignoli a écrit : > Michael Meeks wrote: > > > Members: (5) > > Andre Schnabel > > Fridrich Strba > > Norbert Thiebaud > > Simon Phipps > > Sophie Gautier > > Deputies: (2) > > Cor Nouws > > Drew Jensen > > +1 > +1 -- Charles-H. Schulz Member of the Board of Directors, The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Vote for MC ...
Em 08-11-2011 10:41, Michael Meeks escreveu: Hi Volker, On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 11:19 +0100, Volker Merschmann wrote: Either way - we should put this to a vote on the public list. I offered my help as I thought form the discussions that more persons are really needed. If this is not really the case, I am fine with withdrawing my offer. Sorry about that; thanks for volunteering& hopefully you'll stand for the next MC election ? :-) So I'd love the board to vote to approve (if I got it right, and the existing MC are generally happy) on: Members: (5) Andre Schnabel Fridrich Strba Norbert Thiebaud Simon Phipps Sophie Gautier Deputies: (2) Cor Nouws Drew Jensen For approval as our initial Membership Committee. Thanks, Michael. +1 Regards -- Olivier Hallot Founder, Board of Directors Member - The Document Foundation LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese +55-21-8822-8812 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Vote for MC ...
Hi, Am Dienstag, 8. November 2011, 13:41:36 schrieb Michael Meeks: (...) > Members: (5) > Andre Schnabel > Fridrich Strba > Norbert Thiebaud > Simon Phipps > Sophie Gautier > Deputies: (2) > Cor Nouws > Drew Jensen > > For approval as our initial Membership Committee. +1 Regards, Andreas -- ## Developer LibreOffice ## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows ## http://LibreOffice.org ## Support the Document Foundation (http://documentfoundation.org) ## Meine Seite: http://www.amantke.de -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Fwd: Liaison between LO and Calligra project
Hi Thorsten, thanks for the reply. I understand now that the structure of the LO project renders my suggestion infeasible. So lets drop it. I will answer your questions below. If you, or someone else, has such a list, would be cool to have it filed properly in bugzilla& maybe some meta-issue to track. I'll try to draw one up with Cor Nouws and the other people from LO that attend the 7th ODF plugfest in Gouda next week (if they have the time for it). Even though ODF as a document format has plenty of traction, some specific parts such as ODF's 3D objects stand less of a chance to make it as the dominant standard in this area (given that there are far better and more widely used standards for 3D). In order to make the experience better for everyone and make at least the content portable/visible to other (less complete) implementations I think that should be made more robust by making sure there are standards based fallbacks (in SVG, PNG) for any such parts. Here seems to be some incoherence in your argument (that was previously asking LibO to fill ODF consumer bugs by completing the implementation), and then you also suggest we fix things that are shortcomings in other applications. Of course, this is another point - however, coming from the same concern which is the experience of the end user. I think it is fair to acknowledge that features like the 3D objects are unlikely to survive in ODF in the long term - and rightly so, for ODF's sake. From a pragmatic point of view these components seem atavistic and without the historicity of Star Division's long gone past in 3D software components their presence in the specification would be hard to explain - let alone justify. Since it is unlikely that LO will be able to cover the growing billions of electronic devices out there immediately - though I have a great deal of confidence in its unlimited future ;) - the high cost of support for other incomplete (non-desktop) implementations and the subsequent lack of it will probably negatively impact the end users perception of ODF and its capabilities to store their content reliably. So my point is that for the sake of the users we should at least be storing any such data in a way even the users of a simple implementation with many shortcomings can still at least see the objects. This would benefit everyone in the long run, I think. Best, Michiel -- drs. M.A.G.J. Leenaars Director of Strategy NLnet foundation Science Park 400 1098 XH Amsterdam Netherlands http://nlnet.nl sip/xmpp: michiel [@t] nlnet.nl --- 'If you want the Internet to grow strong, safe and free, but you don't know how to help, contribute to NLNet: they do know and care." Giorgio Maone, NoScript Interested what Richard Stallman, Karsten Nohl, Andy Tanenbaum and many others have to say about what NLnet helped them do for you? Feel your wallet tingling already? Check out: http://nlnet.nl/donating/quotes.html -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to board-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
