Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
Gautam wrote: Because, of course, it is personal. No, it's not. Not on this end anyway. I supported the invasion, and not for oil money either. Your insistence that only corruption or malice explains the actions of the Administration I may have intoned that there is the possibility that corruption or malice are present, but I have never insisted that only corruption or malice explains the actions of the Administration I want to know if there was corruption or malice. The Bush administration is one of the most secretive presidencies ever, what are they hiding? Why don't you answer my questions about why they are stonewalling the 9/11 investigation? suggests that I'm stupid, ignorant, corrupt, or malign. No, it does not. It means we disagree about what we see, that's all. It means that though we probably won't change each others minds because we are so polarized, we may have an influence on others in this forum who are not so polarized. In that, you are doing yourself a disservice by making the argument personal. I'm pretty sure I'm not any of those. I'm certain of it. Now, it's possible for honest people to disagree on whether the invasion was a good idea or not. But as long as you insist that it _isn't_, it _is_ personal. ??? reword, please. I volunteered to go to Baghdad. So did quite a few friends of mine. We didn't do it so that people like you could tell us we were stooges for the oil lobby. What are you saying here Guatam? That I shouldn't argue with you because you volunteered to go to Iraq? That I'm wrong because you're going to Iraq? That you're right because you're going to Iraq? It seems to me that one of the statements you quoted was right - when people look at George Bush and Osama Bin Laden and think that _George Bush_ is their enemy, there's something wrong with them. But that was just someone's character assassination. Now, I don't think you're one of those people. But you do seem to be trying to prove me wrong. Well I am one of those people that think that the Bush administration is bad news for the U.S. and the world and I and others have documented how and why we think this is so. If that somehow automatically makes me a terrorist in your mind, or even raises a question about my dedication to what this country stands for, I'm sorry, but you're very much mistaken. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
On Tue, Jan 27, 2004 at 11:45:58PM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: I'll give one clear example of Halliburton behaving in an unpatriotic manner under Clinton. I've seen, from reputable sources, that they sold nuclear bomb triggers to Hussein, using their French subsidy to make it technically legal. (BTW, I'm also mad at the French for giving a wink and nod to such activities.) I posted it here, without it being disputed as factual. Could you explain what a nuclear bomb trigger consists of? Does this mean something like an electronic timer? A conventional explosive to cause an implosion? Something else? I'm just trying to understand how specialized these triggers were. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: best SF e-zine?
We're thinking about where to send it OTHER than the mainline SF magazines. Do any of you have any familiarity with the newer e-zines that are out there? Do any seem hot and with-it? Mixing good fiction with say, media coverage that brings in a young crowd? Martin Lewis suggests http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/ as the answer to your query. Hope this helps. Lal ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: No teeth in this tiger
On 27 Jan 2004, at 3:47 am, Kevin Tarr wrote: Near the end of Chasm City there were two word errors that stood out. I know I questioned one in Kiln People and the list thought the words were okay. Just wondering how many errors get into finished books. Lots. I think it's rare for a book not to have any typos these days. I think it was Harlan Ellison who wrote a big rant about the decline of proofreaders and sub-editors. And what about the grammatical errors that get through nowadays? -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Our products just aren't engineered for security. - Brian Valentine, senior vice president in charge of Microsoft's Windows development team. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Dewpoint questions
By the way, obviously the humidity in the bathroom rises from the shower spewing hot water. But I don't know how much it rises, and I forgot to mention this in my previous message since I am implicitly assuming the shower ADDS to whatever humidity is already present in the air before turning on the hot shower. So the dewpoint would rise due to the higher humidity, but the dewpoint should rise in both cases, right? So I don't see how that can account for the effect that seems to me is the OPPOSITE of what I should see (i.e., I would have predicted no mirror fogging before the humidifiers, and more mirror fogging after the humidifiers) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
~4479 (~7.2%) GOP NH Primary Voters voted for Democratic Write-ins
http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/files/elections/2004/primaries/by_state /NH_Page.html?SITE=YAHOOELNSECTION=POLITICS#TOP ~4479 (~7.2%) GOP NH Primary Voters voted for Democratic Write-ins ~112 (~.1%) Democratic NH Primary voters Voted for the rootless Shrubbery. If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. - Diebold Internal Memos ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
- Original Message - From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:52 AM Subject: Re: Doing Business With The Enemy Could you explain what a nuclear bomb trigger consists of? Does this mean something like an electronic timer? A conventional explosive to cause an implosion? Something else? I'm just trying to understand how specialized these triggers were. Sure. It is a small, rugged pulsed neutron generator. It generates about 10^8 neutrons per second, with energies of 14 Mev in very short (measured in microseconds) bursts. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Dewpoint questions
- Original Message - From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BRIN-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 5:57 AM Subject: Dewpoint questions Any amateur meteorologists here? I noticed an odd phenomenon in my home recently, and I can't come up with any ideas to explain it. I think I can do it from the basic physics. Condensing usually occurs when the temperature of water vapor is lowered to the point where the relative humidity hits 100% and then keeps dropping. Since the relative humidity can't go above 100%, water must condense, releasing heat, and slowing the cooling. Lets look at case 1, a mirror at 68 degrees, with very dry air. You go in the shower and the vicinity of the shower is now at, say, 90 degrees with near 100% humidity. There is mixing, with the hot water vapor from the shower going through the entire bathroom. Water vapor has a high heat capacity, so it quickly warms up the dry atmosphere of the room. Soon, you have 100% humidity at, say, 75 degrees, while the mirror is still at 68 degrees. Condensation occures. Now, let us consider a room with 50% humidity. The air doesn't heat up as fast because it holds water vapor at 68 degrees. Thus, the mirror has time to raise its temperature, and the temperature differential between the mirror and the air at 100% humidity is noticably smaller. Thus, it doesn't fog up. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 08:48:52AM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: Sure. It is a small, rugged pulsed neutron generator. It generates about 10^8 neutrons per second, with energies of 14 Mev in very short (measured in microseconds) bursts. Thanks. Sounds pretty obvious that it is for a nuclear weapon. Is there any other use you can think of that does not involve a weapon? -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] morally. Teddy was probably drunk off his ass, or too busy drowning innocent young women to think about what he was saying - something like that. Ad hominems, straw men. We can also bring up, Cheney and Shrubs Numerous DWI's or Laura Shrubs manslaughter, but they aren't relevant to the discusion either. I can't imagine that I'm going to be attacked for telling the truth. Why would I be attacked for telling the truth? Paul O'Neill, 60 Minutes ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
- Original Message - From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 9:47 AM Subject: Re: Doing Business With The Enemy On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 08:48:52AM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: Sure. It is a small, rugged pulsed neutron generator. It generates about 10^8 neutrons per second, with energies of 14 Mev in very short (measured in microseconds) bursts. Thanks. Sounds pretty obvious that it is for a nuclear weapon. Is there any other use you can think of that does not involve a weapon? Wireline pulsed neutron measurements in oil wells. They are used to measure water saturation in cased oil wells. Indeed, I'm hoping I'm will get a contract characterizing such a tool this year. They sold suites of logging tools to Hussein, and he insisted on those being included. But, the dual use is well known, and they were on the prohibited list for sale for a darned good reason. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: ~4479 (~7.2%) GOP NH Primary Voters voted for Democratic Write-ins
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of The Fool Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 06:14 AM To: xBrin-L Subject: ~4479 (~7.2%) GOP NH Primary Voters voted for Democratic Write-ins http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/files/elections/2004/primar ies/by_state /NH_Page.html?SITE=YAHOOELNSECTION=POLITICS#TOP ~4479 (~7.2%) GOP NH Primary Voters voted for Democratic Write-ins ~112 (~.1%) Democratic NH Primary voters Voted for the rootless Shrubbery. I wonder how these numbers stack up against historicals? -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Doing Business With The Enemy
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John D. Giorgis Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 08:57 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: RE: Doing Business With The Enemy At 11:00 AM 1/27/2004 -0800 Miller, Jeffrey wrote: 2) Do you truly believe that the United States should have complete economic sanctions against the Iran, Syria, and Libya? John, I don't recall - are you for or against economic sanctions as a form of power? Do you have a read on the effectiveness of them, given the recent Lybian Surprise? I am against general economic sanction in almost all cases. *nod* You and I pretty much agree. Neat! ^_^ * - An extremist filled with rage about the plight of the Iraqi people opened fire on students at my alma mater, Case Western Reserve University last year. My new gf's alma mater, too. I was reading email, and she recognized your name.. ;) -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
- Original Message - From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 7:58 PM Subject: RE: Doing Business With The Enemy --- Miller, Jeffrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did he? When did he do that? -j- He suggested that the most interesting theory about 9/11 was that President Bush was warned in advance about it by the Saudis. He claimed not to believe it - but bringing it up as the most interesting theory clearly attaches some credence to it. Knowing about 9/11 in advance and not stopping it is high treason in anyone's book. That's just one among many pretty much common accusations like that. I don't think the accusations (with a few crazy exceptions, of course) are that Bush knew full well that four planes were set to attack targets like the Pentagon and the WTC and the White House, and only the White House was protected because it all fit in with his scheme. Positing that he was warned about it, there are plenty of other reasons for his not doing anything effective in response. Some are 1) He was warned, but didn't take take the warning seriously enough. 2) He was warned, took steps that he though were adaquate, but he was fooling himself. 3) He was warned, but the warning was too vauge to be effective. 4) He was warned, but he was warned about a lot of different things. Only in hindsight could you point to that one warning. This fits into a broader set of possibilities that I will innumerate: 1) Bush knew about the attack, and let it happen on purpose for nefarious reasons. 2) Bush knew enough so that any reasonable person would have expected him to be able to have stopped the attacks, but he was asleep at the switch. ... ... gradations responsibility that can be assigned in a plus-delta review. . . 3) There was no way that even the very best people could have forseen the attacks. The first possibility is, indeed, high treason. I will rule it out, and I don't think this is what Dean is talkng about. The theory that Dean is talking about is between #2 and #3, much closer to 2 than 3. 2 is not treason, but incompetence. The worst you can call it is dereliction of duty. Since Bush is trying to keep what happened before as secret as possible, even from people who have the security clearance to look at the material, it raises the possibility that the answer is closer to 2 than 3. My own guess is that its at the level where a Monday morning quarterback could show how Bush should have stopped 9-11, but that a real plus-delta would have considered stopping the attack real time much more difficult than it looks in hindsight. I'm guessing he might want to avoid the political embarassment of having enough to give Monday morning quarterbacks talking points, so he's stonewalling a bit on this. BTW, I recall the attacks on the patriotism of the Democrats well before the Dean comment, in connection with their asking questions about both the certainty of Bush on the WMD, and the clues about 9-11 that Bush had before it occured. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Aircraft Carrier on eBay
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Miller, Jeffrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Nunn Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 04:04 AM To: Brin Mail List Subject: Aircraft Carrier on eBay Just when I think I have seen it all on eBay. 1944 British Colossus Class Aircraft Carrier http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItemitem=2454839870 I wanted to bid on it, but wasn't sure my truck could pull it out of the water at the launching ramp :-) At $1000 a peice, 7000 people could buy this boat. At $1 a peice 700. If it could be turned into a nice place for 700 people to live, this could be quite a bargain. Imagine living on your own HMS ACC. The ship maintenence could be offset by running tours. It would probably end up much more than just 10k after refiting and remodeling, but still a bargain for water front property in any city. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: ~4479 (~7.2%) GOP NH Primary Voters voted for Democratic Write-ins
At 08:13 AM 1/28/04, The Fool wrote: http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/files/elections/2004/primaries/by_state /NH_Page.html?SITE=YAHOOELNSECTION=POLITICS#TOP ~4479 (~7.2%) GOP NH Primary Voters voted for Democratic Write-ins ~112 (~.1%) Democratic NH Primary voters Voted for the rootless Shrubbery. Which beat the IIRC 54 who wrote in Hillary . . . showing apparently that GWB is more acceptable to Democrats than the junior Senator from NY . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Moving: Irregulars book questions
Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: I'm moving into the foothills this week So I'm frantically sorting and purging, (Possibly) Dumb question: Why, if the new place is at least as big as what you have now? cha-grin Umm, because I have *piles* of journals that I've been meaning to scan/sort/read, not to mention a box or 4 of stuff that was supposed to be sorted through from the *last* move...I don't want to move all of it again! Rob, David, Erik, Dave -- thanks for the input; will do. Debbi whose younger cat thinks all the boxes and bags are fun new hiding pouncing features, but whose older cat obviously remembers something of the last move, and is rather anxiously pacing about, looking perturbed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: best SF e-zine?
Yeah, they seem a good idea. Thrive! db --- Lalith Vipulananthan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're thinking about where to send it OTHER than the mainline SF magazines. Do any of you have any familiarity with the newer e-zines that are out there? Do any seem hot and with-it? Mixing good fiction with say, media coverage that brings in a young crowd? Martin Lewis suggests http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/ as the answer to your query. Hope this helps. Lal ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l = . . * Please note. My email address of many years is changing FROM [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... (Or else use [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Moving: Irregulars book questions (addendum)
And thanks to William too! (Knew I just shoulda said Thanks everyone for the advice...) Debbi Journal-Purging Fool Maru ;) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Whale explodes in Taiwanese city
No post-explosion pictures. No sound. Still icky. Probably work-safe. Unless you work at Greenpeace... Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: ~4479 (~7.2%) GOP NH Primary Voters voted for DemocraticWrite-ins
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 08:13 AM 1/28/04, The Fool wrote: http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/files/elections/2004/primaries/by_state /NH_Page.html?SITE=YAHOOELNSECTION=POLITICS#TOP ~4479 (~7.2%) GOP NH Primary Voters voted for Democratic Write-ins ~112 (~.1%) Democratic NH Primary voters Voted for the rootless Shrubbery. Which beat the IIRC 54 who wrote in Hillary . . . showing apparently that GWB is more acceptable to Democrats than the junior Senator from NY . . . Those people in NH are inscrutible sometimes. Maybe some people crossed party lines just to create a stink, and fewer actual Dems did the arguably sensible thing of voting for someone who *hadn't* been bombarding them with campaign ads for weeks Julia those TV ads can get *quite* tiring ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Whale explodes in Taiwanese city
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3437455.stm No post-explosion pictures. No sound. Still icky. Probably work-safe. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Whale explodes in Taiwanese city
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 02:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Whale explodes in Taiwanese city No post-explosion pictures. No sound. Still icky. Probably work-safe. Unless you work at Greenpeace... Hmph. Remember a couple years back when Greenpeace served whale meat at the whaling commision conference in London.. to protest the hunting of whale? The mind boggles. -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Whale explodes in Taiwanese city
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No post-explosion pictures. No sound. Still icky. Probably work-safe. Unless you work at Greenpeace... Note I said probably. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Whale explodes in Taiwanese city
I can't explain it, but seeing that picture gives me an overwhelming sense of loss. Those creatures are so majestic. -Travis From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Whale explodes in Taiwanese city Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:32:55 -0600 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3437455.stm No post-explosion pictures. No sound. Still icky. Probably work-safe. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
In a message dated 1/27/2004 11:56:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for the Libyan situation, I do not believe that it was a coincidence that after years of stalemate the ice in Libya began to breakas Saddam Hussein was being toppled. Recent op ed piece in the NYT by a former bush appointee argued quite explicitly that the thaw with Libya began well before the invasion (beginning with initiatives during the Clinton administration)and it was the result of prolonged diplomatic efforts. He should know. He was part of the negoiating team ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recent op ed piece in the NYT by a former bush appointee argued quite explicitly that the thaw with Libya began well before the invasion (beginning with initiatives during the Clinton administration)and it was the result of prolonged diplomatic efforts. He should know. He was part of the negoiating team Maybe. But since Qaddafi said to Berlusconi I will do whatever the Americans want, because I saw what happened in Iraq and I am afraid it seems like there's a more plausible explanation. I swear, Bob, if President Bush walked across the Potomac you'd declare it was proof that he couldn't swim. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
Trent Shipley wrote: Why not add the following: 545 MYA: Diversity is artificially induced in many worlds, including Earth [causing the Cambrian explosion]. This is the last reference to Earth in the Galactic Library. It depends on DB. Yes. And He wrote on 1999-05-24: Re: The discussion of mining minerals and ores on Mars (differentiated core, but easy digging) I'm afraid the dream won't work for a simple reason. There's a better source of raw materials just floating around a little farther out in the solar system. Evidence from meteorites is strong that there was a differentiated body that got broken up ~600 million years ago, and that that's what many asteroids may be from. If so, you don't have to drill at all: you just find the right asteroid and harvest the whole thing.* For more on this, see MINING THE SKY, by my pal, U or Arizona Prof John S. Lewis. He has some more books, too. dbrin * Some suggest this was one of 3 bits of evidence that the solar system was visited in that time frame. The other two were the Cambrian explosion of life (somebody flushed a toilet), and the claim that the age-distribution of ore-bodies of certain minerals that might be of interest to advanced civilizations shows a distinct drop for ages 600 million years. So I think it's fair game to add His scientific speculations into His fiction :-) I expect that he has a personal politcial agenda of supporting--or at least not undermining--support for evolution as fact. (I know that the pro-evolution theme is important to me) For this sub-theme it is critical that the Galactics *NEVER* mess with Earth. But they did: there are Galactic Library references to Earth - only they are too old. BTW, what was the date the first Cosmonaut went into space. Gagarin, 1961. Unless the soviets had tried before and failed. They only reported their successes :-) The CE/BCE system is annoying in that it lacks a year zero. Is this a real problem? We are recording dates, not computing periods. 31 AxY: A small branch Library is installed at La Paz, Earth. The Human starship Tabernacle disappears. The flight of Tabernacle should happen _after_ Sundiver, because they carried a book written by Jacob Demwa in year 42 after Contact. This isn't my entry. It is from SeJ. We can assume that GU2 superceeds the earlier source or assume it is is error and make a correction. IIRC, this was overlooked in the GU2 Timeline. I would like to present the recent dates in terms that are human-understandable. As in 277-Q1, or 277-February? No, as in 2489-May : Streaker flees to Kithrup :-P Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
Trent Shipley wrote: Yuri Gagarin was the first man in space on 12 April 1961. So the date for Contact is stuck at 2211 because it makes Contact happen 250 years after we went into space. 2212 just won't do. Math logic looses to literary logic. Whenever I find round periods like 250 years, it's convenient to accept them as approximations. 250 could be 251. BTW, where is it written that Contact happened 250 years after the first human flight? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
William Taylor wrote: You leave out the very important: 41M BxY: Rediscovery of transfer points to galaxies originally numbered Seven and Eleven, now renumbered Two and Four. Earth is in Galaxy Two which was Galaxy Seven, which was lost from 150M BxY to 41M BxY, which includes the height and end of the age of dinosaurs. Ok, but then there's another date when _both_ Galaxies 7 and 11 lost contact with the others: 1.6 BYA: Contact lost with three galaxies [7, 9, 11] Remaining Galaxies renumbered. Eight galaxies remain. The disaster results in cultural upheavals and sparks the first wave of memnetic plagues. But of course this would not allow the Cambrian explosion on Earth O:-) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
- Original Message - From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 8:14 PM Subject: Re: Doing Business With The Enemy I swear, Bob, if President Bush walked across the Potomac you'd declare it was proof that he couldn't swim. Stealing lines from LBJ? How far the mighty have fallen! G xponent Good One Though Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
Trent Shipley wrote: 2.26G BxY (a): Progenitors physically leave the Galaxies (according to Inheritor legend). Or transcend, according to Awaiter legend [CA] 1.6G BxY: Contact lost with three galaxies. Eight galaxies remain. The disaster results in cultural upheavals and sparks the first wave of memnetic plagues. The lost Galaxies are 7, 9, and 11. Is it purposeful that the _11th_ Galaxy was the source of the agressive H-2 breathers, and that it will be reunited latter? This would be _Andromeda_, wouldn't it? c 3000 BxY: Earth's Axial Age begins. Axial Age? wtf? 197 BxY: Earth-based observers discover planets in the habitable zone. These include NuDawn around Tau Ceti and Easter around Alpha Centuri A. Ok, now that we've discussed a lot about that, why not _abandon_ the cliché of Alpha Centauri A and place Easter around B? :-) 0xY /2211 CE: First Galactic Contact. Human explorers contact Tymbrimi colonists. It should be 2212 CE :-P 31 AxY: (...) The Human starship Tabernacle disappears. No, it doesn't :-P 280 AxY: [Streaker arrives on Jijo? SS] Streaker should arrive on Jijo in 279 AxY. Also, all that talk about death and resurection by the Kazzkark fanatic could suggest that those events happened close to Passover... We have some scattered Earth dates: there's a reference to November 1st close to the Chimp Uplift Ceremony on Earth and Gillian refers to Alvin et al as dressing Halloween Costumes [it could be close to the celebration of Halloween]. Are there any other obscure references to Earth's dates, like Valentine, Christmas, etc? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Doing Business With The Enemy
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gautam Mukunda Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 06:14 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Doing Business With The Enemy --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recent op ed piece in the NYT by a former bush appointee argued quite explicitly that the thaw with Libya began well before the invasion (beginning with initiatives during the Clinton administration)and it was the result of prolonged diplomatic efforts. He should know. He was part of the negoiating team Maybe. But since Qaddafi said to Berlusconi I will do whatever the Americans want, because I saw what happened in Iraq and I am afraid it seems like there's a more plausible explanation. I think you're probably right. I don't think that this sort of display of force is a great long-term solution; we shouldn't ever count on such side benefits. I swear, Bob, if President Bush walked across the Potomac you'd declare it was proof that he couldn't swim. Because he'd be walking on the backs of the working poor! (jus' kiddin') -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Chat etc
Apologies to all who got kicked off the chat this week. The weather here must be worse than I thought :) The phone lines went down completely for a while [1] (no dial tone or anything) which obviously cut off my ADSL internet connection.[2] It seems very unlikely that these conditions will coincide with a Wednesday chat again this year... Blizzard season. [1] I took Ed out for a walk and a look and when I came back the phones and ADSL were up again. 15 minutes. Not bad service considering it's 3am here :) [2] And before that the local loop was up but some other network outage cut off ADSL for 5 minutes. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ A bad thing done for a good cause is still a bad thing. It's why so few people slap their political opponents. That, and because slapping looks so silly. - Randy Cohen. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
John D. Giorgis wrote: At 08:15 PM 1/28/2004 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/27/2004 11:56:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for the Libyan situation, I do not believe that it was a coincidence that after years of stalemate the ice in Libya began to breakas Saddam Hussein was being toppled. Recent op ed piece in the NYT by a former bush appointee argued quite explicitly that the thaw with Libya began well before the invasion (beginning with initiatives during the Clinton administration)and it was the result of prolonged diplomatic efforts. He should know. He was part of the negoiating team And of course, all those years of negotiation going back to the Clinton Administration just happened to break through at the same time that Hussein was being toppled.And indeed, coincidentally at the very same time the Iranians were deciding to come clean about their own program.And indeed, coincidentally the Syrians even made an (albeit much less serious than those from their Iranian or Libyan counterparts) initiative to come clean about their own program. But of course, all of the above is just one giant happy coincidence reflecting the fruits of St. Clinton's hard work and dilligence, right? Well, at least the earlier negotiations had the channels open, right? :) Would things have gone so smoothly had there *not* been the lines of communication there for the purpose? I'd say that a percentage of the credit should go to those who were working before, and the rest should go to Bush. I don't care to say *what* those percentages are, though, as I don't know enough about it. Julia shirt's finally dry, but it stinks a bit ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Doing Business With The Enemy
--- Miller, Jeffrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you're probably right. I don't think that this sort of display of force is a great long-term solution; we shouldn't ever count on such side benefits. -j- Well, why not? One of the major reasons for doing this was such a side benefit - which doesn't make it much of a side benefit at all. Pour encourager les autres as Voltaire said. In all seriousness, I still don't get it. Other than such displays of force, what do you think a Qaddafi would respond to? As far as I can tell, _nothing_ except force is likely to get results from someone like him. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
--- Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I swear, Bob, if President Bush walked across the Potomac you'd declare it was proof that he couldn't swim. Stealing lines from LBJ? How far the mighty have fallen! G xponent Good One Though Maru rob Talent creates, genius steals - Picasso :-) = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Part of Parrot Act Ruled Unconstitutional
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/27/2004 8:32:47 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Excellent mixing of two posts. Amazing job! A local radio station has a contest where they do this to two songs, and ask callers to name the two that were mixed. ---David The Road Goes Ever Ever On Top of Old Smokey. Not exactly. They play bands like Audioslave, Collective Soul, ... and others I forgot. So I never get the two songs, since I'm not very familiar with their play list. But it's a good station for when my first choice has commercials, etc. ---David Then there's the tape, currently Violent Femmes. Got to change it sometime... Blister in the Sun Shine of my Love ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy (LLL)
Julia wrote: At the risk of irritating an awful lot of people -- There were a number of young men in the South who fought for the Confederacy not because they were trying to defend slavery, but because they felt allegiance to their states before their country. While the simplistic interpretation, and maybe the most correct one, of the Civil War was that it was about the slavery issue, a lot of those who fought for the Confederacy did not justify their participation for that reason. Slavery doesn't get to what was really going on in the hearts and minds of many of those who fought. (And those in the North weren't primarily fighting to free the slaves, either, although there were those who went to war willingly for that end.) Some people might slap the oil interpretation over anything the US does in the Middle East. Evidently that is not the motivation for a large number of people supporting the current actions. Poke at this parallel, scream at me if you like, but this is where *my* mind went in the face of the oil/no, not oil argument. Substitute any idea that might be self-serving for Bush himself but not supported by supporters of the war for oil, if you like, and I'll throw the same Civil War situation back again. I think the analogy is very astute. Another similarity is the flood of anti Lincoln, pro-secession propaganda Southerners were flooded with that helped push them towards war. On the subject of slavery being the simple explanation, I think that although it's easy to say that slavery caused the split, when you look at the other reasons people suggest: trade differences, states rights, differences in social structure etc. etc. they all have their roots in slavery as well. So slavery becomes both the simple explanation and underlying cause for the war. One thing Id like to clear up. While I believe that had the same set of circumstances occurred in an oil poor state, we would not have gone to war against them, I do not believe oil is the reason that Bush herded us towards war. There are myriad other reasons, not least among them the idea of a U.S. hegemony that was discussed on the list at some length. The same people that compose the heart of the Bush administrations push towards war (and as Paul ONeil and others have noted, it was in the works well before 9/11), Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz were members of a group of conservative ideologues calling themselves the Project for the New American Century who had been yammering for war since 1997. This link is a letter they sent to President Clinton in January of 1998: http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm Here is their statement of principals: http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm. Now you may be encouraged by statements like: America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership. Keep in mind that these are the same people that said Iraqs reconstruction would only cost a few billion. By this time next year we will have spent close to ten times that amount. You may recall the New Yorker article posted here late last year that documented that while the administration solicited the advice of experts on how to approach the reconstruction, they subsequently ignored the advice. Of course were all paying for that lapse now. So though they sound high and mighty, these are men who have a fixed idea about how things should be done, and they arent about to let experts or the facts get in their way. (and ask me about what I know about the aftermath of Gettysburg any time you like) Consider yourself asked. 8^) -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
