Wife's suggestion!
My wife suggested this. I always go along with her ideas:-) learner Begin forwarded message: Hey! Let’s circulate a request for common courtesy and civility between individuals and groups with opposing ideas. I don’t know about you, but I have become increasingly concerned about the verbiage and rage Americans are expressing to and about one another. Verbal abuse and physical attacks send a damaging message of hostility to our youth and demolish our image to the rest of the world. We can and will disagree, which makes us stronger if we remember that we are all Americans. It’s acceptable to disagree—to not even like one another (including our president). Let’s not confuse freedom of speech with human decency. Just because an action is legal does not make it ethical. Bottom line—We profess to be a Christian nation. It is appropriate to ask, “What would Jesus say and do?” I imagine he disagreed with the actions of those cheating tax collectors and adulterous women he befriended. Yet, we have no record of him calling them names, swearing at them, or making degrading comments. Amazingly, we even have evidence that Jesus loved his enemies. The challenge is to disagree with dignity, intelligence and respect. If you think this is a worthwhile message, please forward it to others. Barbara Frandsen 219 Fleck ba...@stedwards.edu "Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile. Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance." unknown author ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: What's to read?
On Sep 21, 2009, at 1:48 AM, Doug Pensinger wrote: BTW, I can't recommend the Kindle enough. T I am using the Kindle app on the iphone and just finished a Baxter SciFi/Alternate history book. Best electronic book interface I have seen so far! learner ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wife's suggestion!
On Sep 21, 2009, at 2:09 PM, Chris Frandsen relayed: Bottom line—We profess to be a Christian nation. It is appropriate to ask, “What would Jesus say and do?” I imagine he disagreed with the actions of those cheating tax collectors and adulterous women he befriended. Yet, we have no record of him calling them names, swearing at them, or making degrading comments. Amazingly, we even have evidence that Jesus loved his enemies. Some think this is a Christian nation, others think it's a secular nation whose majority religion happens to be Christianity, and there is much to debate in terms of what exactly constitutes a Christian. And some believe that Christianity implies morality and ethical behavior, and that its absence is necessarily immoral and unethical .. and some believe otherwise. Some even believe the opposite. That being said, there's a lot to be said for cultivating civility, whether the motivation to be civil is religious or otherwise. And as someone who is as far from "church going Christian" as it's possible to be and still live on this planet, I have to say that Jesus set a good example, and there's solid reasoning behind his teachings that is far above the petty little sects fighting over miniscule differences in apocryphal doctrine. ;) Can't we all just get along? ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wife's suggestion!
Chris Frandsen wrote: My wife suggested this. I always go along with her ideas:-) learner Begin forwarded message: Hey! Let’s circulate a request for common courtesy and civility between individuals and groups with opposing ideas. I don’t know about you, but I have become increasingly concerned about the verbiage and rage Americans are expressing to and about one another. Verbal abuse and physical attacks send a damaging message of hostility to our youth and demolish our image to the rest of the world. We can and will disagree, which makes us stronger if we remember that we are all Americans. It’s acceptable to disagree—to not even like one another (including our president). Let’s not confuse freedom of speech with human decency. Just because an action is legal does not make it ethical. Bottom line—We profess to be a Christian nation. It is appropriate to ask, “What would Jesus say and do?” I imagine he disagreed with the actions of those cheating tax collectors and adulterous women he befriended. Yet, we have no record of him calling them names, swearing at them, or making degrading comments. Amazingly, we even have evidence that Jesus loved his enemies. The challenge is to disagree with dignity, intelligence and respect. If you think this is a worthwhile message, please forward it to others. I respectfully disagree. Not in appealing to people to be respectful in disagreements, but in appealing to the religious "What would Jesus do?" to do so. Rationality promotes calm debate. Sadly, religion is not conducive to rationality. Rather religion and religious belief promotes the irrational and rejection of the rational (IE: Creationism/Intelligent Design vs Evolution). No, appealing to ones irrational beliefs doesn't promote rational debate. Oh, as for an example of Jesus not "respectfully disagreeing", call to your recollection what Jesus did to the vendors in the temple. I believe it had something to do with shouting, throwing over tables, smashing merchandise and even wielding a whip. It's been a while though, so I may be a little cloudy on the details. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: What's to read?
I have a Sony 505. The books on my reader are on my reader and on my desktop, not on my account on someone else's server. If anyone wants to delete them [think 1984] or whatever, they have to physically steal my reader and then delete the book. I own them outright. Nobody else has any rights in the copies I own except, in this state, if I had a legally married spouse. (Community property state). No one gonna take my 505 away http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ > Subject: Re: What's to read? > From: lear...@mac.com > Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:12:46 -0500 > To: brin-l@mccmedia.com > > > On Sep 21, 2009, at 1:48 AM, Doug Pensinger wrote: > > > BTW, I can't recommend the Kindle enough. T > > I am using the Kindle app on the iphone and just finished a Baxter > SciFi/Alternate history book. > Best electronic book interface I have seen so far! > > learner > > ___ > http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Wife's suggestion!
Amen. I second, third, or thousandth the motion. Pat http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: lear...@mac.com Subject: Wife's suggestion! Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:09:36 -0500 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com My wife suggested this. I always go along with her ideas:-) learner Begin forwarded message:Hey! Let’s circulate a request for common courtesy and civility between individuals and groups with opposing ideas. I don’t know about you, but I have become increasingly concerned about the verbiage and rage Americans are expressing to and about one another. Verbal abuse and physical attacks send a damaging message of hostility to our youth and demolish our image to the rest of the world. We can and will disagree, which makes us stronger if we remember that we are all Americans. It’s acceptable to disagree—to not even like one another (including our president). Let’s not confuse freedom of speech with human decency. Just because an action is legal does not make it ethical. Bottom line—We profess to be a Christian nation. It is appropriate to ask, “What would Jesus say and do?” I imagine he disagreed with the actions of those cheating tax collectors and adulterous women he befriended. Yet, we have no record of him calling them names, swearing at them, or making degrading comments. Amazingly, we even have evidence that Jesus loved his enemies. The challenge is to disagree with dignity, intelligence and respect. If you think this is a worthwhile message, please forward it to others.Barbara Frandsen219 fleckba...@stedwards.edu "Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile. Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance." unknown author ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: What's to read?
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 2:30 PM, Pat Mathews wrote: > I have a Sony 505. The books on my reader are on my reader and on my > desktop, not on my account on someone else's server. If anyone wants to > delete them [think 1984] or whatever, they have to physically steal my > reader and then delete the book. > That Kindle book deletion thing was a debacle, but Amazon has promised not to do it again, and I tend to believe them, since it caused such an outcry and they don't want that kind of bad press again. For the cautious, Kindle content can be backed up to a computer. I'm not sure what would have happened if someone had 1984 backed up, and then copied it back to their Kindle, with the wireless on, a few days after the original deletion order came through. Of course, you can turn the wireless off and then restore the backup, and it is impossible for Amazon to do anything until you turn wireless back on. But hopefully none of that is necessary in the future. I just want to see the book selection increase. It still boggles my mind why so few books released before the Kindle, but in the last 30 years or so, have come out in Kindle or other e-book formats. Someone must have a digital copy of the book text somewhere, and it is trivial to convert it to the Kindle or ebook formats. It seems like free money for someone. By the way, have you investigated how the book selection compares for Kindle vs. your Sony 505? Particularly with science fiction titles? I'm still waiting for Brin to release the various Startide books on Kindle. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wife's suggestion!
On Sep 21, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Michael Harney wrote: I respectfully disagree. Not in appealing to people to be respectful in disagreements, but in appealing to the religious "What would Jesus do?" to do so. Rationality promotes calm debate. Sadly, religion is not conducive to rationality. Rather religion and religious belief promotes the irrational and rejection of the rational (IE: Creationism/Intelligent Design vs Evolution). No, appealing to ones irrational beliefs doesn't promote rational debate. Oh, as for an example of Jesus not "respectfully disagreeing", call to your recollection what Jesus did to the vendors in the temple. I believe it had something to do with shouting, throwing over tables, smashing merchandise and even wielding a whip. It's been a while though, so I may be a little cloudy on the details. On Sep 21, 2009, at 2:40 PM, Bruce Bostwick wrote: Some think this is a Christian nation, others think it's a secular nation whose majority religion happens to be Christianity, and there is much to debate in terms of what exactly constitutes a Christian. And some believe that Christianity implies morality and ethical behavior, and that its absence is necessarily immoral and unethical .. and some believe otherwise. Some even believe the opposite. That being said, there's a lot to be said for cultivating civility, whether the motivation to be civil is religious or otherwise. And as someone who is as far from "church going Christian" as it's possible to be and still live on this planet, I have to say that Jesus set a good example, and there's solid reasoning behind his teachings that is far above the petty little sects fighting over miniscule differences in apocryphal doctrine. ;) Can't we all just get along? A referral to "Religion" without being specific often sparks a response on this list. My wife is not a follower so she did not write this with this illustrious group in mind. Guys, I suggest taking her to task on this is part of the problem. There are many out there with religious beliefs be they Christian or otherwise. Being civil means respecting their beliefs though not necessarily accepting them. I agree with Bruce that in general lessons ascribed to Jesus are about love and acceptance of the other. I ascribe to them. As for the temple I believe that was more about the failings of organized religion but of course that is my interpretation I also am a bit cloudy. learner ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wife's suggestion!
On Sep 21, 2009, at 2:57 PM, Chris Frandsen wrote: A referral to "Religion" without being specific often sparks a response on this list. My wife is not a follower so she did not write this with this illustrious group in mind. Guys, I suggest taking her to task on this is part of the problem. There are many out there with religious beliefs be they Christian or otherwise. Being civil means respecting their beliefs though not necessarily accepting them. Amen, brother! I think that the harsh "immune response" from some quarters to the merest mention of religion is a symptom of our general inability to be generous, kind, civil, open and _listening_. Most of us who hold that some religious practices and ideas have a valuable place in our society don't even find it necessary to go into an allergic reaction when our very beliefs -- which we introduce to the conversation in good faith (the secular meaning of that phrase) -- are attacked. It is not necessary to compare George Bush or Barack Obama to Hitler in order to say that we disagree with their policies. It is not necessary to call people with religious beliefs "addled" or "deluded" in order to say that we choose not to believe as they do. I agree with Bruce that in general lessons ascribed to Jesus are about love and acceptance of the other. I ascribe to them. As for the temple I believe that was more about the failings of organized religion but of course that is my interpretation I also am a bit cloudy. You seem to remember and understand the teachings and stories of Jesus better than you think. Jesus' main complaint was about the hypocrisy of the Jewish leadership: making a big show of their faithfulness while ignoring their own God's commands to be generous to the poor, to take care of the strangers in their midst, etc. Thank you for introducing this thread, and please tell your wife (for me, anyway) that she's welcome to couch her hopes for a gentler dialog in religious or "rational" terms as she feels fit. Blessings, Dave ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: What would Jesus say and do
I suspect he would be looking deeply into evolutionary psychology to understand what drives strife. It is fairly clear what causes the problems. It is fairly clear what we need to do about them. But it is really unlikely that people will. Keith ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: What's to read?
Pat wrote: > I have a Sony 505. The books on my reader are on my reader and on my > desktop, not on my account on someone else's server. If anyone wants to > delete them [think 1984] or whatever, they have to physically steal my > reader and then delete the book. I own them outright. Nobody else has any > rights in the copies I own except, in this state, if I had a legally married > spouse. (Community property state). > > No one gonna take my 505 away > > That's nice, but if I was a best selling author I think I'd be pretty reluctant to sell my book that way for fear that someone would make copies and give them away a la mp3 file sharing. And unlike musicians, authors aren't likely to make a lot of money on tour so once their book is being distributed for free, they're SOL. Other than the ownership factor, how do you like your reader so far? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: What's to read?
John wrote: > > But hopefully none of that is necessary in the future. I just want to see > the book selection increase. It still boggles my mind why so few books > released before the Kindle, but in the last 30 years or so, have come out in > Kindle or other e-book formats. Someone must have a digital copy of the book > text somewhere, and it is trivial to convert it to the Kindle or ebook > formats. It seems like free money for someone. > > By the way, have you investigated how the book selection compares for Kindle > vs. your Sony 505? Particularly with science fiction titles? > > I'm still waiting for Brin to release the various Startide books on Kindle. I think the reason you're still waiting for Brin's books is also the answer to you're question about the number of titles available. They're probably negotiating with a lot of authors for the rights or dealing with copyright issues. After the 1984 debacle I'm sure they're being very careful about what they make available. In the meanwhile there's a lot of stuff already available that I want to read, so I'm not to worried about it yet. Also, you've probably noticed that you can prompt publishers to release their titles from the Amazon page. On the left hand side of the page theres a little dialog box entitled Tell the Publisher etc. Here's one you all can help me out on 8^) http://www.amazon.com/Consider-Phlebas-Iain-M-Banks/dp/031600538X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253600088&sr=8-1 Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wife's suggestion!
Dave wrote: > Amen, brother! I think that the harsh "immune response" from some quarters > to the merest mention of religion is a symptom of our general inability to > be generous, kind, civil, open and _listening_. Yes but, calling the U.S. a Christian nation is a little beyond "the merest mention." That said, I agree with the tenor of the message forwarded by Chris. I've been disturbed enough by the hate speech from the right; Beck, Limbaugh et al, that I've considered taking some sort of action to express my displeasure. This is the only constructive thing I've found so far: http://colorofchange.org/ If anyone knows of any similar campaigns I'd be interested in checking them out. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
