Re: [Callers] Contra Academia? (Maia McCormick)

[Roger Hayes]

Here's a note I wrote a few weeks ago about teaching, specifically in the
context of teaching at a contra dance.

Performative Aspects of
Teaching

Looking forward to reading the works cited in reply to this (interesting!)
question.

- Roger Hayes

PS: I think that the adjective "objective" may not have the talismanic
force in anthropology, folklore, and gender studies that it does in some of
the other social sciences.

Re: [Callers] 3-33-33 and The Hussey Bride

[Bree Kalb]

I usually talk to the band before the dance starts about signals and who to 
direct them to. The most common for slowing the tempo is slowly lowering my 
flat hand, palm down, while mouthing 'slower' but I'll do whatever the band 
leader wants.


-Original Message- 
From: Aahz Maruch

Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 2:50 PM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] 3-33-33 and The Hussey Bride

On Tue, May 07, 2013, Bree Kalb wrote:


I don't tell the band what tempo to use for most dances since it
might depend on the tune, but if it looks like the dancers are
rushing to get to the next move, I'd signal the band to slow down a
tad. I've never gotten tired or winded doing 3/33/33 and I'm not
exactly in prime athletic condition, so that might have been a
fluke.


How do you signal the band to change tempo?
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 
http://rule6.info/

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Re: [Callers] Hussy Bride

[Bill Olson]

hmm.. that is extremely hard to read.. does THIS help? well if not it's also at 
http://www.megalink.net/~pweeks/Hussybri.html bill


THE HUSSY BRIDE A duple improper contra by Bill Olson 
  A1: Long Lines F & B (8), W allem R x 1.5 (8) (left hand to partner, right to 
next in long waves) A2: Bal wave (4) allem R 3/4 to wave across (women in 
center by left) (4) bal wave (4) walk straight forward to new wave (partner is 
on right hand) (4)  B1: Bal wave and Sw partner (16)  B2: Circle L 3/4, swing 
neighbor  Notes:This dance was finished in October, 1999 and dedicated to 
Barbara Groh, a wonderful dancer and caller from Asheville, North Carolina, on 
the occasion of her marriage. A possible alternative in A2 would be for Women 
to allemand left once around after the second balance. This would propel the 
women toward their partners for a partner balance and swing in B1.
 > From: callb...@hotmail.com
> To: call...@sharedweight.net
> Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 20:22:21 +
> Subject: [Callers] Hussy Bride
> 
> Hi all. New to the list.. Can't figure out how to reply to the thread off the 
> archive, so I guess this is a new thread sorry about that.. Barbara Groh, the 
> Hussy Queen ( and subsequently the Bride) herself, informed me that Hussy is 
> spelled without the "e".. bill here's the choreography: THE HUSSY BRIDEA 
> duple improper contra by Bill Olson 
>   A1: Long Lines F & B (8), W allem R x 1.5 (8) (left hand to partner, right 
> to next in long waves) A2: Bal wave (4) allem R 3/4 to wave across (women in 
> center by left) (4) bal wave (4) walk straight forward to new wave (partner 
> is on right hand) (4) B1: Bal wave and Sw partner (16) B2: Circle L 3/4, 
> swing neighbor Notes:This dance was finished in October, 1999 and dedicated 
> to Barbara Groh, a wonderful dancer and caller from Asheville, North 
> Carolina, on the occasion of her marriage. A possible alternative in A2 would 
> be for Women to allemand left once around after the second balance. This 
> would propel the women toward their partners for a partner balance and swing 
> in B1. 
> 
> 
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
  

[Callers] Hussy Bride

[Bill Olson]

Hi all. New to the list.. Can't figure out how to reply to the thread off the 
archive, so I guess this is a new thread sorry about that.. Barbara Groh, the 
Hussy Queen ( and subsequently the Bride) herself, informed me that Hussy is 
spelled without the "e".. bill here's the choreography: THE HUSSY BRIDEA duple 
improper contra by Bill Olson 
  A1: Long Lines F & B (8), W allem R x 1.5 (8) (left hand to partner, right to 
next in long waves) A2: Bal wave (4) allem R 3/4 to wave across (women in 
center by left) (4) bal wave (4) walk straight forward to new wave (partner is 
on right hand) (4) B1: Bal wave and Sw partner (16) B2: Circle L 3/4, swing 
neighbor Notes:This dance was finished in October, 1999 and dedicated to 
Barbara Groh, a wonderful dancer and caller from Asheville, North Carolina, on 
the occasion of her marriage. A possible alternative in A2 would be for Women 
to allemand left once around after the second balance. This would propel the 
women toward their partners for a partner balance and swing in B1. 

  

Re: [Callers] Contra Academia?

[Michael Fuerst]

Greg:  

Children can explain their motivations.
For example, listen to the audio comprising Act 3 of this web site:  
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/27/the-cruelty-of-children
 
Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801   217-239-5844
Links to photos of many of my drawings and paintings are at 
www.ArtComesFuerst.com




 From: Greg McKenzie 
To: Caller's discussion list  
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Contra Academia?
 

Maia wrote:

> But that's the sort of thing
> I'm really interested in exploring--WHY people do or don't dance switch,
> what place contra holds in their life and social world and how that
> does/doesn't impact the way they dance it, etc.
>

I would point out that folks are, generally, much better at reporting
their own actual behavior than they are in reporting their motivations.
People are often not really aware of their own actual motivations.  We are
all prone to explain our behavior by generating reasons.  In research you
might be better off asking about actual behaviors.  If I ask "why" a person
attends contras the results are not likely to be dependable.  If I ask "how
many contra dance evenings have you attended during the last 12 months?" I
am more likely to get a more accurate answer, in part because the behavior
is externally observable.

Dancing a role that is different from your most apparent gender is
observable.  Why you do so is less dependable information.  A study that
reports on the behavior of gender-role switching at dances would generate
useful information for callers and organizers.  If you can also report on
the apparent gender of the respondents and the sexual preferences of the
respondents this might also be very helpful.

I would shy away from asking "why" of respondents.  That might be something
you, or the readers of your report can infer from the findings.

- Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA
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Re: [Callers] Contra Academia?

[Greg McKenzie]

Maia wrote:

> But that's the sort of thing
> I'm really interested in exploring--WHY people do or don't dance switch,
> what place contra holds in their life and social world and how that
> does/doesn't impact the way they dance it, etc.
>

 I would point out that folks are, generally, much better at reporting
their own actual behavior than they are in reporting their motivations.
People are often not really aware of their own actual motivations.  We are
all prone to explain our behavior by generating reasons.  In research you
might be better off asking about actual behaviors.  If I ask "why" a person
attends contras the results are not likely to be dependable.  If I ask "how
many contra dance evenings have you attended during the last 12 months?" I
am more likely to get a more accurate answer, in part because the behavior
is externally observable.

Dancing a role that is different from your most apparent gender is
observable.  Why you do so is less dependable information.  A study that
reports on the behavior of gender-role switching at dances would generate
useful information for callers and organizers.  If you can also report on
the apparent gender of the respondents and the sexual preferences of the
respondents this might also be very helpful.

I would shy away from asking "why" of respondents.  That might be something
you, or the readers of your report can infer from the findings.

- Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA

Re: [Callers] 3-33-33 and The Hussey Bride

[Aahz Maruch]

On Tue, May 07, 2013, Bree Kalb wrote:
>
> I don't tell the band what tempo to use for most dances since it
> might depend on the tune, but if it looks like the dancers are
> rushing to get to the next move, I'd signal the band to slow down a
> tad. I've never gotten tired or winded doing 3/33/33 and I'm not
> exactly in prime athletic condition, so that might have been a
> fluke.

How do you signal the band to change tempo?
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Contra Academia?

[Maia McCormick]

Oh my god, this is really my day. Definitely hit send before I finished
writing the email. Anyway, Michael, I am curious about your ideas on
objective research in anthro! Just because it seems like any researcher
will have some sort of potentially biasing group affiliation...

Cheers,
Maia

Re: [Callers] Contra Academia?

[Maia McCormick]

2013/5/12 Greg McKenzie 

> Maia wrote:
>
> > That's a really good point. I mean, one way would be to focus my study
> only
> > on people who self-identify as being "in" the contra community... but,
> how
> > would you suggest I go about finding people on the fringes? I feel like
> my
> > sample size will be kind of biased by who I'm friendly with, which is
> > pretty much the quote unquote 'young hip flashy' dancers (who tend to be
> > super comfortable switching roles, largely queer, considerably poly and
> > sexually liberal, etc.).
>
>
> Last night I attended the "Queer Youth Leadership Awards" dinner in our
> county.  State representatives, city council members, county supervisors,
> and many other leaders in the community came out to celebrate queer youth
> who have excelled in leadership in their high schools, etc.
>
> Obviously there is some significant progress being made in our society
> toward tolerance of differing personal relationships and preferences.  I am
> delighted with how well the contra dance movement has worked to adapt to
> these changes.  This is certainly an area where some study would be useful
> for callers and organizers of contra dances.
>
> Maia also wrote:
>
> > I also want to find the people who consider
> > themselves "contra community" but feel uncomfortable dancing switch, or
> > might look at a male-male and female-female couple and say "hey, why
> don't
> > you split up and pair off m/f?"
> >
>
> I wouldn't say that the idea of a "contra community" is a myth, but I would
> question the usefulness of this concept in any objective study.  I fear
> that the idea of a "self-identified" community of contra dancers is almost
> always a projection of the one making that determination.  That's why, in
> my study, I worked to obtain the most random sample I could of all those in
> the hall at our dances.
>
> I suspect that almost all of those in leadership positions in the contra
> dance movement are enthusiasts of multiple dance forms, (defined as dancing
> each form at least six times a year.  Please let me know if this is not the
> case for you, personally.)  About HALF of those in the hall at our open,
> public contra dances, however, will rarely, if ever, attend any other type
> of social dance.  Contras are their primary, or sole social dance activity.
>
> I suspect that most of those who are most comfortable with switching roles
> are also multiple dance form enthusiasts.  The function of social dance as
> a "mating ritual" may be much less significant for hard-core multiple dance
> form enthusiasts.


I don't think I agree. I'm almost exclusively a contradancer, and it
definitely is a "mating ritual" or sorts for me, and that's precisely *why* I
started to dance the other role: because I'm queer, and if I danced my
assigned role, I'd never get to dance with people I'm interested in, er,
"mating" with. Just to throw that out there. But that's the sort of thing
I'm really interested in exploring--WHY people do or don't dance switch,
what place contra holds in their life and social world and how that
does/doesn't impact the way they dance it, etc.

Michael (and everyone)--Oops, I realize that last email was not terribly
coherent. I didn't realize it was going out to the whole listserv, I
thought I was replying to just one person, so I was being silly and flip
and using joking-gender-studies slang. Please don't consider that my
research proposal! Sorry about that one, folks! =/

Maia


> How can you make or evaluate any meaningful  findings about "contra
> networks" without a comparison to other social networks, dance or othrwise ?
>

It's more that I'm attempting to make evaluations *inside* the contra
network.


> Will your use of the "g" word,  " god,"  predispose bias into whatever
> findings you eventually make ?
>

I'm confused. Are you joking?


> Once you start saying things to dancers, such as  "hey, why don'tyou split
> up and pair off m/f?"  any findings become dubious
>

Again, I'm confused. I never proposed saying this to dancers, and certainly
not in the course of any study.


> By considering your self a young hip flashy dancer (whatever that means)
> will make your doing any objective study difficult.


Every person who has ever done an anthropological study has had some sort
of identification in relation to the group they were studying, even if that
identification is "not of your group." It seems obvious to me that the
people who are most like to

Re: [Callers] Contra Academia?

[Aahz Maruch]

On Sun, May 12, 2013, Greg McKenzie wrote:
> Maia also wrote:
>>
>> I also want to find the people who consider
>> themselves "contra community" but feel uncomfortable dancing switch, or
>> might look at a male-male and female-female couple and say "hey, why don't
>> you split up and pair off m/f?"
> 
> I wouldn't say that the idea of a "contra community" is a myth, but I would
> question the usefulness of this concept in any objective study.  I fear
> that the idea of a "self-identified" community of contra dancers is almost
> always a projection of the one making that determination.  That's why, in
> my study, I worked to obtain the most random sample I could of all those in
> the hall at our dances.

That's kinda what I was getting at in part, but even your survey would
likely not have caught me, depending on exactly how you executed it.  For
example, I pretty much only dance in the winter because I'm prone to heat
exhaustion.

Mailing lists are likely useful for catching another set of people, but
there are probably lots even now who still don't use e-mail (and mailing
lists would be an even smaller fraction of the crowd).

> I suspect that almost all of those in leadership positions in the contra
> dance movement are enthusiasts of multiple dance forms, (defined as dancing
> each form at least six times a year.  Please let me know if this is not the
> case for you, personally.)  About HALF of those in the hall at our open,
> public contra dances, however, will rarely, if ever, attend any other type
> of social dance.  Contras are their primary, or sole social dance activity.

For most of the last decade, I have done less than six/year of anything
other than contra (and often barely meeting that standard for contra) --
just too hard to manage dancing and a job with my schedule.  Then again,
I probably don't really count as "leadership position", either (just an
online loudmouth and moderately visible on the dance floor).

On the gripping hand, I identify as a dance enthusiast because there
have been periods when I danced multiple times per week and I've been
doing all of contra/square/folk for more than a quarter century.  I'm
providing this datapoint as an example of how complicated it is to label
people.  ;-)

> I suspect that most of those who are most comfortable with switching roles
> are also multiple dance form enthusiasts.  The function of social dance as
> a "mating ritual" may be much less significant for hard-core multiple dance
> form enthusiasts.

Well, I've *wanted* dance to be in part a mating ritual, it just doesn't
seem to have worked that way for me.  And my most recent partner, who I
found on OKCupid, is someone that I *should* have previously met dancing
(zie is a hard-core folk dancer, going to Greece and other places for
dancing); similarly, one of my exes was a semi-serious contra dancer for
a while (and may still be going to Gaskells), and two of my other
partners would like to dance but can't due to medical issues.  So even
though dance hasn't worked for me historically as a mating ritual, it
certainly has been part of my romantic life.

Hard to say how much my experience is informed by my hearing impairment,
but likely lots, because socializing in a dance context is very very
difficult for me.  People with social issues might have a similar
experience for different reasons.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Contra Academia?

[Greg McKenzie]

Maia wrote:

> That's a really good point. I mean, one way would be to focus my study only
> on people who self-identify as being "in" the contra community... but, how
> would you suggest I go about finding people on the fringes? I feel like my
> sample size will be kind of biased by who I'm friendly with, which is
> pretty much the quote unquote 'young hip flashy' dancers (who tend to be
> super comfortable switching roles, largely queer, considerably poly and
> sexually liberal, etc.).


Last night I attended the "Queer Youth Leadership Awards" dinner in our
county.  State representatives, city council members, county supervisors,
and many other leaders in the community came out to celebrate queer youth
who have excelled in leadership in their high schools, etc.

Obviously there is some significant progress being made in our society
toward tolerance of differing personal relationships and preferences.  I am
delighted with how well the contra dance movement has worked to adapt to
these changes.  This is certainly an area where some study would be useful
for callers and organizers of contra dances.

Maia also wrote:

> I also want to find the people who consider
> themselves "contra community" but feel uncomfortable dancing switch, or
> might look at a male-male and female-female couple and say "hey, why don't
> you split up and pair off m/f?"
>

I wouldn't say that the idea of a "contra community" is a myth, but I would
question the usefulness of this concept in any objective study.  I fear
that the idea of a "self-identified" community of contra dancers is almost
always a projection of the one making that determination.  That's why, in
my study, I worked to obtain the most random sample I could of all those in
the hall at our dances.

I suspect that almost all of those in leadership positions in the contra
dance movement are enthusiasts of multiple dance forms, (defined as dancing
each form at least six times a year.  Please let me know if this is not the
case for you, personally.)  About HALF of those in the hall at our open,
public contra dances, however, will rarely, if ever, attend any other type
of social dance.  Contras are their primary, or sole social dance activity.

I suspect that most of those who are most comfortable with switching roles
are also multiple dance form enthusiasts.  The function of social dance as
a "mating ritual" may be much less significant for hard-core multiple dance
form enthusiasts.

Interesting.

- Greg McKenzie
West Coast

Re: [Callers] Contra Academia?

[Michael Fuerst]

Maia:

What do you mean by "intersections of gender, sexuality, flirtiness, 
role-swapping, skirt wearing, age, use of contra network as a social  base,
 use of contra network to find romantic/sexual partners"  ?

How can you make or evaluate any meaningful  findings about "contra networks" 
without a comparison to other social networks, dance or othrwise ?


Will your use of the "g" word,  " god,"  predispose bias into whatever findings 
you eventually make ?

Once you start saying things to dancers, such as  "hey, why don'tyou split up 
and pair off m/f?"  any findings become dubious

By considering your self a young hip flashy dancer (whatever that means) will 
make your doing any objective study difficult.

If you have a serious interest in social networks, you should look at the free 
on-line class currently being offered by Coursera:
https://www.coursera.org/course/networksonline
The course is 2/3 over, but you still can register to study all the course 
materials

 
Michael Fuerst     



 From: Maia McCormick 
To: Caller's discussion list  
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Contra Academia?
 

2013/5/11 Aahz Maruch 

> On Sat, May 11, 2013, Maia McCormick wrote:
> >
> > That's exactly it, though! The variations of expressions of self-identity
> > and sexuality within different subsets of contra. Like, I'm really
> > interested to look at intersections of gender, sexuality, flirtiness,
> > role-swapping, skirt wearing, age, use of contra network as a social
> base,
> > use of contra network to find romantic/sexual partners... oh my god,
> > there's so much to explore!
>
> One thing to be careful of, by way of personal example: primarily because
> of my hearing impairment but also because I have a lot of trouble staying
> up late, I tend to think of myself as "of" but not "in" the contra dance
> community.  So you likely will need to put in extra effort if you want to
> find people who are not part of the core communities (i.e on the fringes,
> however you measure that).


That's a really good point. I mean, one way would be to focus my study only
on people who self-identify as being "in" the contra community... but, how
would you suggest I go about finding people on the fringes? I feel like my
sample size will be kind of biased by who I'm friendly with, which is
pretty much the quote unquote 'young hip flashy' dancers (who tend to be
super comfortable switching roles, largely queer, considerably poly and
sexually liberal, etc.). I also want to find the people who consider
themselves "contra community" but feel uncomfortable dancing switch, or
might look at a male-male and female-female couple and say "hey, why don't
you split up and pair off m/f?"


> > Alternate title: How Contradance Can Help Maia Pick Up Chicks. xP
>
> Before queer contra dance camp, I would have said that a quarter-century
> of contra (and IFD and square) had produced zero romantic effect.  Now
> I'm not sure.  ;->
> --
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
> http://rule6.info/
>                       <*>           <*>           <*>
> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
>
___
Callers mailing list
call...@sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

Re: [Callers] Contra Academia?

[Maia McCormick]

2013/5/11 Aahz Maruch 

> On Sat, May 11, 2013, Maia McCormick wrote:
> >
> > That's exactly it, though! The variations of expressions of self-identity
> > and sexuality within different subsets of contra. Like, I'm really
> > interested to look at intersections of gender, sexuality, flirtiness,
> > role-swapping, skirt wearing, age, use of contra network as a social
> base,
> > use of contra network to find romantic/sexual partners... oh my god,
> > there's so much to explore!
>
> One thing to be careful of, by way of personal example: primarily because
> of my hearing impairment but also because I have a lot of trouble staying
> up late, I tend to think of myself as "of" but not "in" the contra dance
> community.  So you likely will need to put in extra effort if you want to
> find people who are not part of the core communities (i.e on the fringes,
> however you measure that).


That's a really good point. I mean, one way would be to focus my study only
on people who self-identify as being "in" the contra community... but, how
would you suggest I go about finding people on the fringes? I feel like my
sample size will be kind of biased by who I'm friendly with, which is
pretty much the quote unquote 'young hip flashy' dancers (who tend to be
super comfortable switching roles, largely queer, considerably poly and
sexually liberal, etc.). I also want to find the people who consider
themselves "contra community" but feel uncomfortable dancing switch, or
might look at a male-male and female-female couple and say "hey, why don't
you split up and pair off m/f?"


> > Alternate title: How Contradance Can Help Maia Pick Up Chicks. xP
>
> Before queer contra dance camp, I would have said that a quarter-century
> of contra (and IFD and square) had produced zero romantic effect.  Now
> I'm not sure.  ;->
> --
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
> http://rule6.info/
>   <*>   <*>   <*>
> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
>