Re: [cayugabirds-l] video: Montezuma hybrid teal, also Bald Eagles

[Peter]

Thanks for sharing the stick incident captured on the video Dave.
I'm always amazed at what one is able to see when one actually gets out 
there and looks. Even things not written about in the "books".
This past Saturday on the Visitor's Center Observation Deck at Montezuma 
we were treated to a Northern Harrier harassing the heck out of a Red 
Tailed Hawk. The Red Tail had made a couple of passes and landed on the 
ground. The Harrier - already in the process of hunting - caught site of 
the Red Tail, went over to it, and bean a series of dive-bombs at the 
adversary! The harriers are graceful enough but this was quite a show! 
And it in no way, shape or form seemed intimidated by the red-tail.
 From its sitting position the Red tail tried to leap up at the Harrier 
to no avail (I had seen video of snowy owls protecting their young by 
actually flipping their bodies upside down so their talons can face 
skyward toward an advancing aerial predator, but the red tail lacked 
this impressive ability).
After 5 or 6 such aerial attacks, the Red Tail had had enough and flew 
off to what I presume were quieter "pastures".
The things one sees...
Pete Saracino


On 11/16/2015 10:44 PM, Dave Nutter wrote:
> I originally checked out this video from a couple days ago at 
> Montezuma NWR because, starting around 10 minutes in, it shows the 
> Cinnamon x Blue-winged Teal sporadically for several minutes. The 
> hybrid has developed much more pronounced Blue-winged traits than when 
> we first saw it on 1 Nov.
>
> Later the video shows an extended sequence of 2 then 3 immature Bald 
> Eagles chasing each other. I haven’t looked at the whole video tour. 
> But the best bit I've looked at is shortly after the 29 minute mark 
> when a single immature Bald Eagle breaks a long stick off the top of a 
> tree, flies around carrying it, perches, flies again still carrying 
> it, and finally drops it while perching a second time. I've seen an 
> Osprey break off sticks to add to a nest, but the eagle is a new one 
> for me. It's neat to see, even by a practicing bird presumably too 
> young to nest.
>
> http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/77674728
>
> --Dave Nutter
>
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Re: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

[David Wheeler]

I don't think it's a mixed message because no hunting and no discharge are
different. No discharge would include target shooting.

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015, Geo Kloppel  wrote:

> I was curious to know if DEC had made revisions to hunting regulations
> with respect to jurisdictional conflicts about waterfowl hunting. But DEC
> websites still seem to be giving waterfowl hunters mixed messages about the
> validity of local "no hunting" ordinances. For example, on this DEC web
> page it explicitly says that such ordinances are not valid:
>
> http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/40550.html
>
> "The State holds the authority to regulate hunting, and no lesser
> government can usurp that authority. Although "No Hunting" laws are not
> valid, they may nonetheless be on the books in some municipalities."
>
> But on the following DEC page, it says hunters must obey local "no
> discharge" ordinances:
>
> http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/94213.html
>
> "It is important that hunters be aware of and obey all State hunting laws,
> as well as any local discharge ordinances. When using public lands and
> waters, it is essential that hunters access these areas legally."
>
> Can it really be DEC's position that "no hunting" ordinances are not
> valid, but "no discharge" ordinances are valid?
>
> -Geo Kloppel
>
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[cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

[Geo Kloppel]

I was curious to know if DEC had made revisions to hunting regulations with 
respect to jurisdictional conflicts about waterfowl hunting. But DEC websites 
still seem to be giving waterfowl hunters mixed messages about the validity of 
local "no hunting" ordinances. For example, on this DEC web page it explicitly 
says that such ordinances are not valid:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/40550.html  

"The State holds the authority to regulate hunting, and no lesser government 
can usurp that authority. Although "No Hunting" laws are not valid, they may 
nonetheless be on the books in some municipalities."

But on the following DEC page, it says hunters must obey local "no discharge" 
ordinances:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/94213.html

"It is important that hunters be aware of and obey all State hunting laws, as 
well as any local discharge ordinances. When using public lands and waters, it 
is essential that hunters access these areas legally."

Can it really be DEC's position that "no hunting" ordinances are not valid, but 
"no discharge" ordinances are valid?

-Geo Kloppel


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RE: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

[Gary Kohlenberg]

As I pointed out, in the email I bounced to the list, the 2005 city court 
challenge upheld the right of NYS to regulate lakeshore activity irrespective 
of any local ordinance. It concerned dog walkers, but presumably would apply 
equally to anyone ticketed for hunting.
I appreciate the clarity of purpose Jamie’s email from the city provides to our 
civil servants, I just want people not to automatically assume this is a 
settled issue. Of course if no hunter complains and the IPD runs people off the 
south end of the lake then it may be a done deal.

Gary

From: bounce-119905115-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-119905115-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Geo Kloppel
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:04 AM
To: CAYUGABIRDS-L 
Subject: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

I was curious to know if DEC had made revisions to hunting regulations with 
respect to jurisdictional conflicts about waterfowl hunting. But DEC websites 
still seem to be giving waterfowl hunters mixed messages about the validity of 
local "no hunting" ordinances. For example, on this DEC web page it explicitly 
says that such ordinances are not valid:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/40550.html

"The State holds the authority to regulate hunting, and no lesser government 
can usurp that authority. Although "No Hunting" laws are not valid, they may 
nonetheless be on the books in some municipalities."

But on the following DEC page, it says hunters must obey local "no discharge" 
ordinances:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/94213.html


"It is important that hunters be aware of and obey all State hunting laws, as 
well as any local discharge ordinances. When using public lands and waters, it 
is essential that hunters access these areas legally."

Can it really be DEC's position that "no hunting" ordinances are not valid, but 
"no discharge" ordinances are valid?

-Geo Kloppel

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RE: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

[John VanNiel]

Yes, I believe that is exactly what it means. For example, hunting can involve 
other implements besides guns. So a no firearms ban is not the same as a no 
hunting ban.

From: bounce-119905244-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-119905244-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Gary Kohlenberg
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:26 AM
To: geoklop...@gmail.com; CAYUGABIRDS-L 
Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

As I pointed out, in the email I bounced to the list, the 2005 city court 
challenge upheld the right of NYS to regulate lakeshore activity irrespective 
of any local ordinance. It concerned dog walkers, but presumably would apply 
equally to anyone ticketed for hunting.
I appreciate the clarity of purpose Jamie’s email from the city provides to our 
civil servants, I just want people not to automatically assume this is a 
settled issue. Of course if no hunter complains and the IPD runs people off the 
south end of the lake then it may be a done deal.

Gary

From: 
bounce-119905115-3493...@list.cornell.edu
 [mailto:bounce-119905115-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Geo Kloppel
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:04 AM
To: CAYUGABIRDS-L 
>
Subject: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

I was curious to know if DEC had made revisions to hunting regulations with 
respect to jurisdictional conflicts about waterfowl hunting. But DEC websites 
still seem to be giving waterfowl hunters mixed messages about the validity of 
local "no hunting" ordinances. For example, on this DEC web page it explicitly 
says that such ordinances are not valid:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/40550.html

"The State holds the authority to regulate hunting, and no lesser government 
can usurp that authority. Although "No Hunting" laws are not valid, they may 
nonetheless be on the books in some municipalities."

But on the following DEC page, it says hunters must obey local "no discharge" 
ordinances:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/94213.html

"It is important that hunters be aware of and obey all State hunting laws, as 
well as any local discharge ordinances. When using public lands and waters, it 
is essential that hunters access these areas legally."

Can it really be DEC's position that "no hunting" ordinances are not valid, but 
"no discharge" ordinances are valid?

-Geo Kloppel

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RE: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

[Mary E. Winston]

Hi folks, would you mind taking this discussion to another form?
Thanks,
Mary

From: bounce-119906319-12723...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-119906319-12723...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Geo Kloppel
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 1:37 PM
To: John VanNiel 
Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L 
Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

Hi John, Gary, David and all,

Then every municipality, village, town, city, county, borough, etcetera that 
wanted to get out from under the state's exclusive authority to regulate 
hunting could easily do so, because even though local "no hunting" ordinances 
are not valid, local "no discharge" ordinances would trump DEC's authority?

Did you know that Ithaca's "no discharge" code is not limited to firearms? It 
includes projectile weapons of diverse kinds (air guns, spring guns, 
slingshots, and any other instruments or weapons). If that's valid, then it 
achieves an effective ban on hunting by any means except perhaps running down 
your prey and throttling it with your bare hands! :-)

-Geo Kloppel

On Nov 17, 2015, at 10:32 AM, John VanNiel 
> wrote:
Yes, I believe that is exactly what it means. For example, hunting can involve 
other implements besides guns. So a no firearms ban is not the same as a no 
hunting ban.

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[cayugabirds-l] and back to birds - MERLIN, LOONS

[John and Sue Gregoire]

We took a ride to Interlaken this afternoon and checked the waterfront from
Sheldrake to Wyers Point and the cove just north. A total of 59 loons in that 
area.
the very strong southerly chop made picking them out difficult. We're sure there
were many more. Ducks were few and all we found were Bufflehead, Black and 
mallard
in addition to the usual Canada Geese.

Cutting back up to 96 on County Rte 139 we found an adult Blue Jack perched 
atop an
electric pole near the hopyard. Blue Jack an affectionate term for male Merlin. 
This
one was a beauty!

A Cayuga and/or Seneca "pelagic" would be a fun fall/winter cruise.
--
John and Sue Gregoire
Field Ornithologists
Kestrel Haven Avian Migration Observatory
5373 Fitzgerald Road
Burdett,NY 14818-9626
N 42 26.611' W 76 45.492'
 Website: http://www.empacc.net/~kestrelhaven/
"Conserve and Create Habitat"



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Re: [cayugabirds-l] and back to birds - MERLIN, LOONS

[Geo Kloppel]

Hi John, you wrote:
> 
> A Cayuga and/or Seneca "pelagic" would be a fun fall/winter cruise.

Yeah! Fun to dream, anyway.

A few weeks ago I dropped  some friends off at the dock for an Ithaca Boat Tour 
on the HAENDEL. I hadn't previously been up close to that steel-hulled vessel. 
It reminded me of the old LAKE DIVER IV over on Seneca Lake, which used to take 
research parties out weekly in all kinds of winter conditions. Pretty frigid 
sometimes (though there was a good-sized heated cabin)! Seeing the HAENDEL made 
we wonder if anyone has ever approached Ithaca Boat Tours about a winter 
birding charter? 

-Geo
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Re: [cayugabirds-l] and back to birds - MERLIN, LOONS

[Christopher T. Tessaglia-Hymes]

I did approach them just this fall with this very question. Issue is they 
remove their vessel from the Inlet for the winter in the first week of 
November. Sometime, in the near future, the lake water levels are lowered and 
no deep-hulled vessels can traverse the Cayuga Inlet. Plus, the 
unpredictability of icing in area waterways or harbors, the additional cost of 
keeping a vessel operationally winterized, and the relatively low likelihood of 
tourist usage during the winter months, makes it economically unfeasible to 
keep open for the winter.

There are some operational vessels, but they are small, and often aren’t 
available because their operators depart this area for a warmer clime during 
the winter.

If there were enough interested persons to go out in late October, the cost per 
person for a group of 10-15 would amount to something like $75 per person for a 
chartered 8-hour day – those numbers are probably off a bit, but it was 
something like that.

I can see a very specialized charter after the passage of a very uniquely 
situated hurricane or tropical storm; but it would have to occur prior to them 
pulling the vessel from the water.

Sincerely,
Chris T-H

On Nov 17, 2015, at 3:11 PM, Geo Kloppel 
> wrote:

Hi John, you wrote:

A Cayuga and/or Seneca "pelagic" would be a fun fall/winter cruise.

Yeah! Fun to dream, anyway.

A few weeks ago I dropped  some friends off at the dock for an Ithaca Boat Tour 
on the HAENDEL. I hadn't previously been up close to that steel-hulled vessel. 
It reminded me of the old LAKE DIVER IV over on Seneca Lake, which used to take 
research parties out weekly in all kinds of winter conditions. Pretty frigid 
sometimes (though there was a good-sized heated cabin)! Seeing the HAENDEL made 
we wonder if anyone has ever approached Ithaca Boat Tours about a winter 
birding charter?

-Geo
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--
Christopher T. Tessaglia-Hymes
Field Applications Engineer
Bioacoustics Research Program, Cornell Lab of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road, Ithaca, New York 14850
W: 607-254-2418   M: 607-351-5740   F: 607-254-1132
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/brp


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[cayugabirds-l] Chartering the MV Haendel - no actual birding content ...

[Alicia Plotkin]

(1) A group of birders chartered the Haendel awhile ago - maybe 10 yrs 
ago? - for some mid-lake birding, and & then reported back to this 
list.  Any of the folks who did that still on the list?

(2) I am on the board of The Floating Classroom 
,
 
which uses the Haendel to get kids out on the lake to see what that's 
like and to do science like measuring and tracking water transparency & 
temperature, invertebrate sampling, etc.  (It was an FC intern who first 
found and identified hydrilla in Cayuga Lake a couple years ago.)  I 
checked with our ED to see if charters still are available and he 
explained that the Haendel normally carries insurance only through 
October, as it did this year.  So while I think it might still be on the 
water, it isn't available for commercial use now.  However he thought it 
might be possible to set something up for a November charter in the 
future, it just would need to be discussed earlier in the season with 
the Ithaca Boat Tour owner so that she could arrange for continuing 
insurance - and of course the charter price would have to make it 
worthwhile for her to pay for that extended insurance.  The Haendel is 
certified to carry up to 38 passengers.

BTW, in addition to getting kids access to the lake on the Haendel, the 
Floating Classroom also runs Trout in the Classroom for elementary 
school classrooms.  This is another neat program that gets kids involved 
with the outdoors and introduces some basic ecological concepts - they 
spend the year feeding, caring for, and watching a large tank of trout 
fry get big enough to release.  In the process they learn about the 
trouts' requirements to thrive. The students choose a stream that can 
support the young trout and release them there in the spring.  If anyone 
is interested in contributing to FC programming, serving on our board or 
an advisory committee, or finding out more, please let me know & I can 
get you that info or put you in touch with someone who can.

Alicia

P.S.  Just saw Meena's post - am pretty sure it was the Haendel she 
chartered & her trip is what I am remembering ...


On 11/17/2015 3:55 PM, Christopher T. Tessaglia-Hymes wrote:
> I did approach them just this fall with this very question. Issue is 
> they remove their vessel from the Inlet for the winter in the first 
> week of November. Sometime, in the near future, the lake water levels 
> are lowered and no deep-hulled vessels can traverse the Cayuga Inlet. 
> Plus, the unpredictability of icing in area waterways or harbors, the 
> additional cost of keeping a vessel operationally winterized, and the 
> relatively low likelihood of tourist usage during the winter months, 
> makes it economically unfeasible to keep open for the winter.
>
> If there were enough interested persons to go out in late October, the 
> cost per person for a group of 10-15 would amount to something like 
> $75 per person for a chartered 8-hour day – those numbers are probably 
> off a bit, but it was something like that.
>
> I can see a very specialized charter after the passage of a very 
> uniquely situated hurricane or tropical storm; but it would have to 
> occur prior to them pulling the vessel from the water.
>
> Sincerely,
> Chris T-H
>
> On Nov 17, 2015, at 3:11 PM, Geo Kloppel  wrote:
>
>> A few weeks ago I dropped  some friends off at the dock for an Ithaca 
>> Boat Tour on the HAENDEL. I hadn't previously been up close to that 
>> steel-hulled vessel. It reminded me of the old LAKE DIVER IV over on 
>> Seneca Lake, which used to take research parties out weekly in all 
>> kinds of winter conditions. Pretty frigid sometimes (though there was 
>> a good-sized heated cabin)! Seeing the HAENDEL made we wonder if 
>> anyone has ever approached Ithaca Boat Tours about a winter birding 
>> charter?
>>
>> -Geo
>



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RE: [cayugabirds-l] and back to birds - MERLIN, LOONS

[Meena Madhav Haribal]

I had arranged one Ithaca 'pelagic' after one of the hurricanes a few, may be 
ten or more years ago. We were looking for Petrels and other pelagic birds. I 
don't remember the boat's name right now. I think Jeff Wells took the picture 
of the boat from East Shore. It should be great to have one more on a very cold 
day when the scoters etc. are migrating. 

Meena 


-Original Message-
From: bounce-119906877-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-119906877-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Geo Kloppel
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 3:11 PM
To: John and Sue Gregoire
Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] and back to birds - MERLIN, LOONS

Hi John, you wrote:
> 
> A Cayuga and/or Seneca "pelagic" would be a fun fall/winter cruise.

Yeah! Fun to dream, anyway.

A few weeks ago I dropped  some friends off at the dock for an Ithaca Boat Tour 
on the HAENDEL. I hadn't previously been up close to that steel-hulled vessel. 
It reminded me of the old LAKE DIVER IV over on Seneca Lake, which used to take 
research parties out weekly in all kinds of winter conditions. Pretty frigid 
sometimes (though there was a good-sized heated cabin)! Seeing the HAENDEL made 
we wonder if anyone has ever approached Ithaca Boat Tours about a winter 
birding charter? 

-Geo
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Cayugabirds-L List Info:
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ARCHIVES:
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Please submit your observations to eBird:
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