Re: I want these computers from Myrtlebeach, NC - seller won't ship.

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

First try to find someone on the list. Then if the seller wont ship, will
s/he take them to a pack and ship outfit ?

I've packed and shiped for people and my only "charge" is you do the same
someday.

My desire to keep this stuff running is to me worth the hour or two and the
few $'s it costs.

Although not CC, The last equipment I arranged to find homes for

https://goo.gl/photos/b9EtEiSkuuzZCJ5WA

Over a ton.

-pete








On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 5:35 PM, steven stengel via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Early 90's pen systems.
>
>
> https://myrtlebeach.craigslist.org/sop/6225365248.html
>
>
>
>
>

Re: recent ebay lot of assorted ICs - did somebody on the list win this?

[r.stricklin via cctalk]

On Aug 9, 2017, at 5:06 AM, Alan Hightower via cctech wrote:

> Will 310 ROMs work in a 300? I believe 310, 400, 600, and 1000 ROMs are
> posted in Seth's emulator project's git hub. If not, I can resend them. 

Sort of. The machine will POST and you can use, for example, the standalone 
formatter. But UNIX gets confused and the kernel crashes due to missing 
instructions (WE32000 vs. the /310's WE32100).

I should make clear, somebody did send me images of the correct ROMs, so the 
/300 is currently totally operational. But I thought it would be nice to 
install an actual set of ROMs rather than the copies.


ok
bear.

-- 
until further notice

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

Mike -- 

I gave Bill Degnan the backstory in another thread but in short, I'm working on 
restoring VCF's Seattle Gazelle. It uses a DSDD drive system, although the 
original drives are still at Infoage. I have the original Seattle disks. The 
system was shelved in the mid-1990's. 

I have the system booting to the monitor (after performing all of the usual 
power supply work) but the main task is getting the disks imaged before getting 
everything booting using the original hardware. 

I have a PC/AT with an Adaptec HD/floppy card that per Dave should work for all 
density combinations. It indeed passes with a Teac 1.2Mb drive. 

So the plan is to connect an 8" drive to it and use it as an "imaging machine". 
So yes, to read and write 8" disks. 

The MSDOS part was just a simple way to test that the controller and drive 
worked as expected before working on original Seattle disks that aren't 
replaceable. There is MS Pascal, Norton Utilities, SCP-DOS and two versions of 
MSDOS (1.25 and 2.0). There are also some disks that may have code/sources on 
them. 

Rich

Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, Mike Stein via cctech  
wrote:


- Original Message - 
From: "Richard Cini via cctech" 
To: "Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" 
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 8:54 PM
Subject: Disk imaging with IMD - question


Guys –

I’m working on a restoration project for VCF that requires imaging 8” disks 
(both SSSD and DSDD, mostly for the Tarbell controller) but I’m having trouble 
with it reading disks. So, I wanted to run through what I’ve done and see if 
I’m missing anything. 

It took me a while to hunt down a controller that would work with the PC/AT I 
have on the bench and that would pass all of the testfdc tests. The floppy 
drives are both 1.2MB drives. I located an Adaptec AHA-1522F. Testfdc passes.

Next, I connected my 8” drive (a QumeTrak 242) to the controller using the 8” 
floppy interface adapter from DBit. On reboot, the BIOS seeks the drive no 
problem so I would say that the physical interface works. 

I tried formatting an 8” DSDD disk for MSDOS and I can’t get that to work (not 
sure why since the 8” drive should be similar to the 1.2MB). Rerunning the 
testfdc program fails all tests with the 8”, and it doesn’t successfully read 
any of the non-critical sample disks I have.

Not sure this is enough for someone to go on, but I thought I’d throw it out 
there. 

As a separate question, what kind of disk imaging setups are people using for 
8” disks? 

Thanks!
-
Hi Rich,

I'm not clear on what you're trying to do; archive 8" disks on a PC, create 8" 
disks on a PC, or both? 

Where does MS-DOS format come in? What system uses a Tarbell controller to 
read/write MS-DOS disks?

Probably not relevant for you but since you asked, FWIW I use a Cromemco system 
to DD/TAR/FTAR 8" disks to a file and then either copy that to a PC over a 
serial connection or copy it to a 3.5" or 5.25" HD disk that both the Cromemco 
and the PC can read & write.

m



Rich



--

Rich Cini

http://www.classiccmp.org/cini

http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32

PDP-11/84 Bootstrap for TSV05 (Dilog DU142)

[Ulrich Tagge via cctalk]

Hi All,
I have some trouble to get the Bootstrap for an Dilog DU142 (TS11) 
Controller running on my PDP-11/84.
The bootstrap on page 3-2 of the following documentation was used: 
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dilog/2120-0090-1_DU142_Jul87.pdf

That's, what I have saved to the 11/84 PROM:

Type a command then press the RETURN key: 13
Edit/create an EEPROM boot
Type CTRL Z to exit or press the RETURN key for No change
1741 Bytes free in the EEPROM
Device name = MSNew =
Beginning  address  = 001000New =
Last byte address   = 001120New =
Start address   = 001000New =
Highest Unit number = 1 New =
Device Description  = TSV05 New =
Enter ROM ODT

xx/ = open word location xx if address even, byte if odd
RETURN  = close location
. or LF = close location and open next
-   = close location and open previous

ROM ODT> 001000/012700
ROM ODT> 001002/172520
ROM ODT> 001004/012701
ROM ODT> 001006/172522
ROM ODT> 001010/005011
ROM ODT> 001012/105711
ROM ODT> 001014/100376
ROM ODT> 001016/012710
ROM ODT> 001020/001066
ROM ODT> 001022/105711
ROM ODT> 001024/100376
ROM ODT> 001026/012710
ROM ODT> 001030/001106
ROM ODT> 001032/105711
ROM ODT> 001034/100376
ROM ODT> 001036/012710
ROM ODT> 001040/001106
ROM ODT> 001042/105711
ROM ODT> 001044/100376
ROM ODT> 001046/005711
ROM ODT> 001050/100422
ROM ODT> 001052/012704
ROM ODT> 001054/001102
ROM ODT> 001056/005000
ROM ODT> 001060/005007
ROM ODT> 001062/046523
ROM ODT> 001064/140004
ROM ODT> 001066/001074
ROM ODT> 001070/00
ROM ODT> 001072/10
ROM ODT> 001074/001116
ROM ODT> 001076/00
ROM ODT> 001100/16
ROM ODT> 001102/00
ROM ODT> 001104/140001
ROM ODT> 001106/00
ROM ODT> 001110/00
ROM ODT> 001112/001000
ROM ODT> 001114/00
ROM ODT> 001116/00

That's the outcome.

Type a command then press the RETURN key: B MS0
Trying MS0
001120
@

I have also tried the native TS11 bootstraps, but they are also not 
working, but this is more likely related to the Dilog.
Any help would be appreciated, as I can't wait to boot from my fresh 
build RT-11 Tapes.
By the way, RT-11 recognized this controller, and is able to read and 
write to the TS05 Drive.


.show de:ms

Device Status CSR Vector(s)
-- -- --- -
 MS Installed 172522 224 300

Many Greetings
Ulrich

Re: PDP-8I acrylic Front Panel

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

id be interested in a cast copy of a 8i my self


On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 1:15 AM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 08/08/2017 21:43, Ray Neal via cctalk wrote:
>
>> Rod;
>>
>> I'm looking for a PDP-8I acrylic Front Panel for my replica PDP-8I I'm
>> putting together.  I have a PCB board created by Vince and in between
>> Hospital stays I have been able to populate it.
>>
>> The next step is to either locate a frame or to find manufacturing drawing
>> on the aluminum frame so I can make a wax male mold form to allow me to
>> cast the frame. As a last resort, if I can't find drawing or a frame, then
>> I will attempt to locate a PDP-8 that the owner will allow me to
>> disassemble, photograph & take measurements, then reassemble.
>>
>> Using these I can then create the drawing to allow me to create the Wax
>> Mold Master.
>>
>> As for the acrylic if you don't have a panel in stock and don't plan to
>> create a new order, would you consider placing the artwork into opening
>> source.  This will allow people such as myself the ability to take the
>> artwork to a silkscreen printer and have them create the screen prints to
>> allow for the print of a couple of panels. (When in doubt, creat a spare).
>>
>> *Note*:  Not the cheapest way to obtain a Front Panel.
>>
>> Thank you for your time and the work you have done on this project.
>>
>> Respectfully;
>>
>> Ray Neal
>>
> Hi Ray
>PDP-8/i front panels lots of stock.
> I am also working on a replica of an 8/i.
> I have a working version of Vince's board.
> I also have a new X-Y addressed lamp (LED) PCB layout of my own.
> Its designed to be driven by a Raspberry Pi running SIM H and a bunch of
> low cost I/O boards. (which I already have)
> Just add switches and you have the basis of a working 8/i.
>
> I already managed to make a cast resin copy of an 8/e bezel and plan to do
> the same for the 8/i.
>
> Now here's the interesting bit.
> There's clearly an opportunity for us to cooperate rather than duplicate.
> I would be happy to send you a 8/i panel FOC  in exchange for some other
> component you may make.
>
> I might venture to suggest the switch panel is an area as yet unaddressed.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Rod Smallwood  - rodsmallwoo...@btintenet.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Wanted one pdp-8/i rocker switch leaver to copy.
>
>

I want these computers from Myrtlebeach, NC - seller won't ship.

[steven stengel via cctalk]

Early 90's pen systems.


https://myrtlebeach.craigslist.org/sop/6225365248.html

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 08/09/2017 03:06 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

> Yes.
> It is not clear whether the issue is with the disks, or with the
> hardware setup.

Again, maybe I'm reading too much into the comments, but I thought that
Rich had formatted a floppy using IMD and verified using the Analyze
function.

If IMD formats successfully, you can also run the "Test RPM" function,
which uses any readable header on a track (FM or MFM) to time the
rotation speed.   If IMD can't see any headers, it won't do the RPM test.

--Chuck

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

Will do. These 242 drives are NOS and I have several. I'll swap them too. 

Lots to do this weekend!

Rich

Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
wrote:

There's also the possibility that the drive alignment is so far out of
whack that you're not seeing the data on the SCP disks. This is
unlikely in drives that haven't been diddled with, but unless you bought
the drive NOS, you don't know that.

Grab a known-good 8" floppy--the format doesn't really matter, as long
as it's fairly IBM 3740 compliant (Single-side, single-density, 128 byte
FM sectors). An RX01 floppy is good for that. See what IMD shows.

--Chuck

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

I think I have a Cromemco 16FDC laying around. Might be able to put a quick 
S100 Z80 system together. 

Rich

Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, Fred Cisin  wrote:

On Wed, 9 Aug 2017, rich.c...@verizon.net wrote:
> Hmmm. I might have. CW in my storage area. Good idea. I don't know the 
> version of if I have the software. Let me look later. Great idea.

alternatively, do you have ANY computer with 8" drive and WD 179x 
controller?

It's not too big a deal to write code to read a track into RAM, and then 
look at it.

I used to play with TRAKCESS on TRS-80

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Wed, 9 Aug 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

There's also the possibility that the drive alignment is so far out of
whack that you're not seeing the data on the SCP disks.   This is
unlikely in drives that haven't been diddled with, but unless you bought
the drive NOS, you don't know that.


While radial alignment would get in the way of reading those disks, it 
shouldn't affect his attempts to format a disk




Grab a known-good 8" floppy--the format doesn't really matter, as long
as it's fairly IBM 3740 compliant (Single-side, single-density, 128 byte
FM sectors).  An RX01 floppy is good for that.  See what IMD shows.


Yes.
It is not clear whether the issue is with the disks, or with the hardware 
setup.

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Philipp Hachtmann

> The DEC stuff was designed quite wrong-insertion resistant.
> ...
> I did it. Once. It leads to impressive fireworks on many boards.

I managed to plug in an M9301 backwards, once. Luckily, most of the other
boards came through OK (I think I lost one chip on the CPU), but on the
M9301, I fried over half a dozen chips.

Just goes to show, they _try_ and make it hard to put them in wrong, but it's
still possible! :-)

Later on, they got smart - they gave up trying to prevent smart fools ('you
can't make anything fool-prof because...') like me from doing it, and instead
made it harmless to do - on the QBUS, many boards can take being plugged in
wrong, with no ill effects. I think I did that at least once, there.

Noel

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

There's also the possibility that the drive alignment is so far out of
whack that you're not seeing the data on the SCP disks.   This is
unlikely in drives that haven't been diddled with, but unless you bought
the drive NOS, you don't know that.

Grab a known-good 8" floppy--the format doesn't really matter, as long
as it's fairly IBM 3740 compliant (Single-side, single-density, 128 byte
FM sectors).  An RX01 floppy is good for that.  See what IMD shows.

--Chuck

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Wed, 9 Aug 2017, rich.c...@verizon.net wrote:
Hmmm. I might have. CW in my storage area. Good idea. I don't know the 
version of if I have the software. Let me look later. Great idea.


alternatively, do you have ANY computer with 8" drive and WD 179x 
controller?


It's not too big a deal to write code to read a track into RAM, and then 
look at it.


I used to play with TRAKCESS on TRS-80

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 08/09/2017 01:47 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

> That is SO compatible with the NEC 765 chips that I'm going to CALL it
> an NEC chip.
> I wonder if has the same "flash-blind" behavior following index?
> I'll go out on a limb saying that I think that it will NOT give you any
> chaange from using an NEC chip made by NEC or generic chinese, so long
> as they pass Dave's TESTFDC program(s)

The DP8473 is a classic example of a better-than-NEC controller.  It'll
even handle 128-byte MFM sectors, something the 765 fails miserably on.

Handy for those old 30-sector Superbrain 5.25" floppies...

--Chuck

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

Hmmm. I might have. CW in my storage area. Good idea. I don't know the version 
of if I have the software. Let me look later. Great idea. 

Rich

Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, Fred Cisin  wrote:

On Wed, 9 Aug 2017, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:
> Interesting reading here under disk formats:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS
> Sounds like there were two Tarbell controllers, single and double 
> density but both single-sided ?

NO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS#Disk_formats
includes a 1232K DSDD 8" format, with Tarbell 1791/1793

> Also sounds like the FAT12 disk formats were not quite MS-DOS compatible...

Well, the LAST ones, . . . 
even then, "modern" MS-DOS handles a VERY limited repertoire of the FAT12 
MS-DOS formats.


Do you have access to a flux-transition board (CP, Cat-weasel,Kryoflux, 
etc.)?

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Wed, 9 Aug 2017, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:

Interesting reading here under disk formats:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS
Sounds like there were two Tarbell controllers, single and double 
density but both single-sided ?


NO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS#Disk_formats
includes a 1232K DSDD 8" format, with Tarbell 1791/1793


Also sounds like the FAT12 disk formats were not quite MS-DOS compatible...


Well, the LAST ones, . . . 
even then, "modern" MS-DOS handles a VERY limited repertoire of the FAT12 
MS-DOS formats.



Do you have access to a flux-transition board (CP, Cat-weasel,Kryoflux, 
etc.)?

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 08/09/2017 01:29 PM, Richard Cini via cctalk wrote:
> I don't have the screen print handy but if you look on Dave Dunfield's site 
> under Disk/Software he has a controller registry. I'm using the Adaptec 
> AHA-1522A which uses the National DP8437AV chip. 

That should work with most common WD1793 formats.

However, there's always the odd chance that there's something really
strange about these disks.  I assume that the IMD "analyze" function
gives no results either.

This is where I'd probably pull out the Catweasel and see what's going on.

--Chuck

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Wed, 9 Aug 2017, Richard Cini via cctalk wrote:
Thanks Fred. The Adaptec controller I'm using has a NatSemi controller 
and passes all IMD tests. I have an SBC floating around with a WD37xx 
chip so maybe I'll try that this weekend.


That is SO compatible with the NEC 765 chips that I'm going to CALL it an 
NEC chip.

I wonder if has the same "flash-blind" behavior following index?
I'll go out on a limb saying that I think that it will NOT give you any 
chaange from using an NEC chip made by NEC or generic chinese, so long as 
they pass Dave's TESTFDC program(s)



I don't think that any of the Gazelle formats described in:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS#Disk_formats
should provide any significant problems for a FM capable NEC chip.
BUT, I could  be wrong, and the 1793 is CAPABLE of doing things that NEC 
can't tolerate.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

I don't have the screen print handy but if you look on Dave Dunfield's site 
under Disk/Software he has a controller registry. I'm using the Adaptec 
AHA-1522A which uses the National DP8437AV chip. 

Rich

Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
wrote:

On 08/09/2017 12:41 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

> My naming convention is flawed. I think that at one point Western
> Digital made an "NEC compatible" controller, that isn't what I call
> "wd-style"

Yup, the WD37C65. Anyone need any? I've got a tubeful that I'm never
going to use. Used in the 8-bit ISA WD1002A-FOX controller board--and
a number of other similar ones, such as the Sysgen Omnibridge.

Downside of this particular chip is that it uses two crystals (an 8MHz
and a 9.6MHz one), unlike later "PC-AT controller on a chip" ICs, that
generally used either a single 24 or 48 MHz crystal.

Patterned, as Fred said, after the NEC uPD765/Inel 8272 and very unlike
the WD 17xx and 27xx chips.

Rich, you said your setup passed fdtest. Specifically, what portions of
it? It's a rare FDC that will pass all of the tests.

--Chuck

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

Thanks Fred. The Adaptec controller I'm using has a NatSemi controller and 
passes all IMD tests. I have an SBC floating around with a WD37xx chip so maybe 
I'll try that this weekend. 

Rich

Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
wrote:

> If you can use IMD to format both FM and MFM at 500Kbps on your 242--and
> "Analyze" reads the format okay, your SCP disks aren't probably standard
> IBM 3740 or System/3 type diskettes. They could be in a proprietary
> recording format, such as Intel MMFM or Futuredata GCR.

On Wed, 9 Aug 2017, Richard Cini via cctalk wrote:
> Thanks Chuck. The Gazelle uses the Tarbell DD controller which uses a 
> 1793 which I believe is 3742 and s/34 compatible.

The [WD] 1793 is normally used for "standard" FM and MFM formats
(What I call "IBM/WD Stle formats", and that I think Chuck called "IMD 
formats")

BUT, it could be used for some OTHER formats that the NEC-style FDC can't 
handle, since unlike the NEC-style chips, the WD-style chips have the 
capability of a "track write"/"track read", with seriously different 
sector header structures.
Not enough diffeernt to do GCR, but maybe enough to do Amiga?

The NEC can do a multi-sector read/write, but that isn't the same, and it 
can't do ANYTHING other than "IBM/WD-style" formats.

PC normally uses an NEC-style controller, and that is the only type that 
the BIOS supports.
At one point, there was an after-market WD-style controller with device 
driver support, but the added capabilities weren't enough to make it a 
market success.
If anybody has one, it has the capability of reading a number of disks 
that the NEC can't.


My naming convention is flawed. I think that at one point Western Digital 
made an "NEC compatible" controller, that isn't what I call "wd-style"


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

There's a way to make the disk more compatible by changing the media ID byte, 
but I don't even need that right now. 

I'd have to pull the manual but I believe the TDD is one or two sided. 

Rich

Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, Mike Stein  wrote:

Interesting reading here under disk formats:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS

Sounds like there were two Tarbell controllers, single and double density but 
both single-sided ?

Also sounds like the FAT12 disk formats were not quite MS-DOS compatible...

m

- Original Message - 
From: "Richard Cini via cctalk" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question


> Thanks Chuck. The Gazelle uses the Tarbell DD controller which uses a 1793 
> which I believe is 3742 and s/34 compatible. 
> 
> Rich
> 
> Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail
> 
>
On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
wrote:
> 
> On 08/09/2017 10:57 AM, Richard Cini via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> "DON'T ASSUME..." AS THEY SAY ON TV. I'M OK WITH THE ADDITIONAL CLARITY. 
>> SINCE YOU HAVE A WORKING 242, WOULD YOU MIND CONFIRMING THE JUMPER SETTINGS 
>> FOR ME? JUST TRYING TO ELIMINATE AS MANY POTENTIAL ERROR POINTS. 
> 
> I had a look and a mental fart. I have the 842--the full-height model.
> I suspect that the jumpers are completely different.
> 
> If you can use IMD to format both FM and MFM at 500Kbps on your 242--and
> "Analyze" reads the format okay, your SCP disks aren't probably standard
> IBM 3740 or System/3 type diskettes. They could be in a proprietary
> recording format, such as Intel MMFM or Futuredata GCR.
> 
> --Chuck
> 
>

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 08/09/2017 12:41 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

> My naming convention is flawed.  I think that at one point Western
> Digital made an "NEC compatible" controller, that isn't what I call
> "wd-style"

Yup, the WD37C65.  Anyone need any?  I've got a tubeful that I'm never
going to use.   Used in the 8-bit ISA WD1002A-FOX controller board--and
a number of other similar ones, such as the Sysgen Omnibridge.

Downside of this particular chip is that it uses two crystals (an 8MHz
and a 9.6MHz one), unlike later "PC-AT controller on a chip" ICs, that
generally used either a single 24 or 48 MHz crystal.

Patterned, as Fred said, after the NEC uPD765/Inel 8272 and very unlike
the WD 17xx and 27xx chips.

Rich, you said your setup passed fdtest.  Specifically, what portions of
it?  It's a rare FDC that will pass all of the tests.

--Chuck

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Wed, 9 Aug 2017, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:

Interesting reading here under disk formats:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS
Sounds like there were two Tarbell controllers, single and double 
density but both single-sided ?

Also sounds like the FAT12 disk formats were not quite MS-DOS compatible...


There are also, of course MANY MS-DOS formats that are not PC-DOS 
compatible, nor compatible with "modern" MS-DOS.


Some are hardware incompatible, such as Sirius/Victor 9000.

Some are not recognized by "modern" MS-DOS, but nevertheless are 
straight-forward to read/write with IMD, XenoCopy, 22Disk, etc.
Those range from ones with different sector sizes, to ones that are ALMOST 
PC-DOS, but with different number of DIRectory sectors, etc.

HP
Atari ST
Gavilan
Canon
NEC
etc.

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

If you can use IMD to format both FM and MFM at 500Kbps on your 242--and
"Analyze" reads the format okay, your SCP disks aren't probably standard
IBM 3740 or System/3 type diskettes. They could be in a proprietary
recording format, such as Intel MMFM or Futuredata GCR.


On Wed, 9 Aug 2017, Richard Cini via cctalk wrote:
Thanks Chuck. The Gazelle uses the Tarbell DD controller which uses a 
1793 which I believe is 3742 and s/34 compatible.


The [WD] 1793 is normally used for "standard" FM and MFM formats
(What I call "IBM/WD Stle formats", and that I think Chuck called "IMD 
formats")


BUT, it could be used for some OTHER formats that the NEC-style FDC can't 
handle, since unlike the NEC-style chips, the WD-style chips have the 
capability of a "track write"/"track read", with seriously different 
sector header structures.

Not enough diffeernt to do GCR, but maybe enough to do Amiga?

The NEC can do a multi-sector read/write, but that isn't the same, and it 
can't do ANYTHING other than "IBM/WD-style" formats.


PC normally uses an NEC-style controller, and that is the only type that 
the BIOS supports.
At one point, there was an after-market WD-style controller with device 
driver support, but the added capabilities weren't enough to make it a 
market success.
If anybody has one, it has the capability of reading a number of disks 
that the NEC can't.



My naming convention is flawed.  I think that at one point Western Digital 
made an "NEC compatible" controller, that isn't what I call "wd-style"



--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

Interesting reading here under disk formats:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS

Sounds like there were two Tarbell controllers, single and double density but 
both single-sided ?

Also sounds like the FAT12 disk formats were not quite MS-DOS compatible...

m

- Original Message - 
From: "Richard Cini via cctalk" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question


> Thanks Chuck. The Gazelle uses the Tarbell DD controller which uses a 1793 
> which I believe is 3742 and s/34 compatible. 
> 
> Rich
> 
> Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail
> 
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 08/09/2017 10:57 AM, Richard Cini via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> "DON'T ASSUME..." AS THEY SAY ON TV. I'M OK WITH THE ADDITIONAL CLARITY. 
>> SINCE YOU HAVE A WORKING 242, WOULD YOU MIND CONFIRMING THE JUMPER SETTINGS 
>> FOR ME? JUST TRYING TO ELIMINATE AS MANY POTENTIAL ERROR POINTS. 
> 
> I had a look and a mental fart. I have the 842--the full-height model.
> I suspect that the jumpers are completely different.
> 
> If you can use IMD to format both FM and MFM at 500Kbps on your 242--and
> "Analyze" reads the format okay, your SCP disks aren't probably standard
> IBM 3740 or System/3 type diskettes. They could be in a proprietary
> recording format, such as Intel MMFM or Futuredata GCR.
> 
> --Chuck
> 
>

The Name of the disk (Was: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

The structure used on most diskette tracks is based on an IBM design 
(3740, etc.), and was referred to as "IBM format".  BUT, the general 
public think that "IBM" means the machines that followed the 5150, so "IBM 
format" is oft misconstrued to mean PC.  To avoid ambiguity, I sometimes 
call it "IBM/Western Digital style format".


It includes substantial structures, including sector headers, gaps, 
write splice areas, etc., which require a substantial overhead  (about a 
quarter? of the disk capacity), so decisions about how many sectors of 
what size can have an effect on the final usable capacity.  In spite of 
that, in the interest of "uniformity", it is commonplcae to refer to 
different types of diskettes by one of their commonly used formatted 
capacities  ("360K", "1.2M", "720K", "1.4M")  THAT certainly doesn't 
remove all confusion - for example Apple "400K" and "800K" are the same 
diskettes as IBM "720K"


8" disks used a different jacket for double sided disks than single sided, 
with the index hole aperture in a different location.  That let the 
computer recognize which type of diskette was inserted, and therefore to 
refuse to cooperate if the user asked for a different format than that 
diskette had been intended for.


5.25" dropped that, and also reversed the write-protect notch to a write 
enable notch.
Single sided and double sided 5.25" diskettes are interchangeable, and 
single sided ones can be flipped over to use the other side (single sided, 
of course) by punching additional holes in the jackets (cf. Berkeley 
Microcomputer "Flip Jig")

5.25" diskettes were once known as "mini-floppy".

Besides GCR (Commodore, Apple][, Macintosh 400K and 800K, etc.), there are 
a variety of obscure alternate possibilities, such as Amiga MFM but 
without the IBM/WD structures, hard sector, NRZ, FSK?, etc.)


 the drive and disks are double-sided double density. Are you 
saying that's quad density?


AARRGGHH!
Would it work to kill off people that say "quad density"?

Originally, 5.25" disks were single sided 35 track, soon changed to 40 
track.   Diskette was 300 Oersted.

Capacity depended on formatting choices, typically between 80K and 100K.
These disks were an FM ("Frequency Modulation") recording. 
There was NO mention of "density", although some engineers might call it 
"half density", since there is one bit of data for every two pulses/flux 
transitions.


Apple chose to use GCR for their 35 track single sided disks, resulting in 
about 140K.


Then there was MFM ("Modified Frequency Modulation").  The premise was 
that clock pulses/flux transitions weren't reaally needed between adjacent 
data pulses/flux transitions.  That put more space between the 
pulses/transitions, which meant that the data transfer rate could be 
increased (they doubled it), getting about twice as much data per track.

About 1.5? pulses/transitions per data bit.
Depending on format choices, typically between 150K to 200K capacity.
Instead of just calling it "MFM", the marketing people called it "DOUBLE 
DENSITY".


AFTER that, they renamed "FM" to "SINGLE DENSITY".  That means that if you 
look back, historically, you'll find earlier mentions of the phrase 
"double density" then the earliest mentions of "single density".
(The same historical principle applies to the phrases "World War TWO" V 
"World War One" (which had previously just been "the great war"))


But, there was also single sided and then double sided.
hence, SSSD, SSDD, DSSD, DSDD.
Depending on format choices, between 240K and 400K for DSDD.

BUT, the marketing people at Intertec (Superbrain) chose to call DSDD: 
"QUAD density".

They were the only ones who did that.

Soon thereafter, 5.25" disks came out with 96tpi, instead of 48tpi, 
resulting in 80 tracks instead of 40 tracks.  The "density" on each track 
was not affected.

Depending on format choices, between 640K and 800K.

The marketing people of many/most? computer companies called THAT "QUAD 
DENSITY".  (DSDD, with 80 tracks, instead of 40 tracks)

I think that that was a very stupid naming choice.

So, is "quad density": 40 track DSDD (Superbrain)?
or 80 track DSDD (MANY CP/M computers)?
or 1.2M (DSDD with twice the linear density/data transfer rate, where they 
really did get 4 times as much data per track)?



BUT, it gets WORSE!!
Intertec (Superbrain) started making 80 track DSDD (800K?) available. 
But, they had already used "QUAD DENSITY" to refer to 40 track DSDD!  So, 
they called the 80 track DSDD, "SUPER DENSITY"!   If that wasn't bad 
enough, they abbreviated "Super Density" as "SD".

OK, is "SD" FM/single density,
or is "SD" "SUPER DENSITY"?
Thankfully, NOBODY else was THAT stupid.

I have a special fond spot in my heart for Intertec.  At NCC (National 
Computer Conference) in 1983, I stopped by their booth to ask some minor 
questions about their formats for XenoCopy.  (They had multiple formats, 
with their own unique names, inverted the data bits, short-changed 
some of the 

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

Thanks Chuck. The Gazelle uses the Tarbell DD controller which uses a 1793 
which I believe is 3742 and s/34 compatible. 

Rich

Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
wrote:

On 08/09/2017 10:57 AM, Richard Cini via cctalk wrote:

> "DON'T ASSUME..." AS THEY SAY ON TV. I'M OK WITH THE ADDITIONAL CLARITY. 
> SINCE YOU HAVE A WORKING 242, WOULD YOU MIND CONFIRMING THE JUMPER SETTINGS 
> FOR ME? JUST TRYING TO ELIMINATE AS MANY POTENTIAL ERROR POINTS. 

I had a look and a mental fart. I have the 842--the full-height model.
I suspect that the jumpers are completely different.

If you can use IMD to format both FM and MFM at 500Kbps on your 242--and
"Analyze" reads the format okay, your SCP disks aren't probably standard
IBM 3740 or System/3 type diskettes. They could be in a proprietary
recording format, such as Intel MMFM or Futuredata GCR.

--Chuck

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 08/09/2017 10:57 AM, Richard Cini via cctalk wrote:

> "DON'T ASSUME..." AS THEY SAY ON TV. I'M OK WITH THE ADDITIONAL CLARITY. 
> SINCE YOU HAVE A WORKING 242, WOULD YOU MIND CONFIRMING THE JUMPER SETTINGS 
> FOR ME? JUST TRYING TO ELIMINATE AS MANY POTENTIAL ERROR POINTS. 

I had a look and a mental fart.  I have the 842--the full-height model.
I suspect that the jumpers are completely different.

If you can use IMD to format both FM and MFM at 500Kbps on your 242--and
"Analyze" reads the format okay, your SCP disks aren't probably standard
IBM 3740 or System/3 type diskettes.  They could be in a proprietary
recording format, such as Intel MMFM or Futuredata GCR.

--Chuck

Re: RX8 M8357 Device address.

[Rod Smallwood via cctalk]

On 09/08/2017 17:31, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

it is device code 75


http://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/man/rx01.html


On 8/9/17 9:24 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:


On 8/9/17 9:23 AM, Josh Dersch wrote:


The manual I linked contains configuration details for the RX01, RX8E and RX11. 
 See page 2-10.


yea, just pulled the manual and realized that, sorry.







Thank you everybody I now have pulses on RX8 SEL.
With Brian's short program running I can check out the rest of the controller.

Rod

--
Wanted one pdp-8/i rocker switch leaver to copy.

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

See below. Hopefully inline works. I'm not shouting, just using caps. 

Rich

Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
wrote:

On 08/09/2017 09:52 AM, Richard Cini via cctalk wrote:
> It's funny -- I didn't see the original reply from Bill to this
> message.
> 
> I am aware of the track differences and I thought Dos would format
> it but just slam the head for the last three tracks. No such luck. It
> actually complains about the disk from the beginning.
> 
> The Qume 242 is a DSDD drive in case that was asked in the original
> thread, and should work in this situation.


I'll try again--it doesn't matter if the Qume 242 (I've got one) is a
DSDD drive if you're using SS media. Peek inside the drive and you'll
see that there are *two* index sensors--one for single-sided and the
other for double-sided media. Unless you've got a hole punch handy, you
can't format single-sided media to use both sides.

YES I KNOW. I HAVE BOTH KINDS OF MEDIA. RIGHT NOW USING 3M DSDD MEDIA. 

Okay, a DOS format is more than a simple IMD-type format, which does
little more than instruct the FDC to write a bunch of E5-filled sectors
and headers.

OK, DIDNT KNOW THAT. 

A DOS format also writes a boot sector, FAT and root directory. If most
late versions of DOS don't see a valid boot sector, you'll get a
"General Failure" error. If you use IMD to format the disk, use the
"Analyze" option to verify what you've got.

UNDERSTAND WHAT DOS WRITES. I WILL SEE WHAT ACTUALLY GETS WRITTEN. USING 
ANALYZE. 

INTERESTINGLY IMD CLAIMS NOT TO BE ABLE TO READ ONE OF THE DISKS THATS TO BE 
IMAGED -- AN 8" MDSOS 2.0 DISK FROM A GAZELLE. I WOULD CONSIDER THE DISKS IN AN 
UNKNOWN CONDITION. CHICKEN AND EGG. THESE ARE ORIGINAL SCP DISKS SO I DONT WANT 
TO EXPERIMENT MUCH ON THEM. 

I hope I've been clear--lately, I tend to assume too much.

"DON'T ASSUME..." AS THEY SAY ON TV. I'M OK WITH THE ADDITIONAL CLARITY. SINCE 
YOU HAVE A WORKING 242, WOULD YOU MIND CONFIRMING THE JUMPER SETTINGS FOR ME? 
JUST TRYING TO ELIMINATE AS MANY POTENTIAL ERROR POINTS. 

Thanks all. 

--Chuck

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 08/09/2017 09:52 AM, Richard Cini via cctalk wrote:
> It's funny -- I didn't see the original reply from Bill to this
> message.
> 
> I am aware of  the track differences and I thought Dos would format
> it but just slam the head for the last three tracks. No such luck. It
> actually complains about the disk from the beginning.
> 
> The Qume 242 is a DSDD drive in case that was asked in the original
> thread, and should work in this situation.


I'll try again--it doesn't matter if the Qume 242 (I've got one) is a
DSDD drive if you're using SS media.  Peek inside the drive and you'll
see that there are *two* index sensors--one for single-sided and the
other for double-sided media.  Unless you've got a hole punch handy, you
can't format single-sided media to use both sides.

Okay, a DOS format is more than a simple IMD-type format, which does
little more than instruct the FDC to write a bunch of E5-filled sectors
and headers.

A DOS format also writes a boot sector, FAT and root directory.  If most
late versions of DOS don't see a valid boot sector, you'll get a
"General Failure" error.   If you use IMD to format the disk, use the
"Analyze" option to verify what you've got.

I hope I've been clear--lately, I tend to assume too much.

--Chuck

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

Bill -- the drive and disks are double-sided double density. Are you saying 
that's quad density?

I may try a different host setup again. I have five different computers that 
passed the testfdc program with varying levels of success, although none with 
single-density. 

Rich

Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, william degnan  wrote:

NOTE - I was able to make a bootable 8" DOS 6.22 disk even though it slammed 
the last three tracks, on my imaging computer.  The computer thought it was 
writing to a 1.2M 5 1/4 disk.

BUT you're saying a quad density SS disk.  I never tried that and if you say it 
does not work then I can't dispute that without trying it myself.

BIll

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Richard Cini via cctalk 
 wrote:
It's funny -- I didn't see the original reply from Bill to this message.

I am aware of  the track differences and I thought Dos would format it but just 
slam the head for the last three tracks. No such luck. It actually complains 
about the disk from the beginning.

The Qume 242 is a DSDD drive in case that was asked in the original thread, and 
should work in this situation.

I tried to format a disk with both IMD and NFORMAT (utility I downloaded) and 
neither products a disk format that DOS likes. I'm sure it's my selection of 
parameters more so than the program itself.



Rich

Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
wrote:

On 08/09/2017 01:41 AM, william degnan wrote:

> How about booting into dos and just formatting a disk that way?

Go back and read what I wrote, Bill. If single-sided media is being
used, DOS formatting will fail as there is no single-sided high-density
format available.

Of course, if double-sided media is used, DOS formatting as a 1.2MB DOS
disk should work--up to track 76. Note that 8" drives are 77
track/cylinder, not 80, as the 5.25" drives are.

IMD can handle the issues quite readily, as its formatting facility will
do whatever you tell it to do.

--Chuck

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[william degnan via cctalk]

NOTE - I was able to make a bootable 8" DOS 6.22 disk even though it
slammed the last three tracks, on my imaging computer.  The computer
thought it was writing to a 1.2M 5 1/4 disk.

BUT you're saying a quad density SS disk.  I never tried that and if you
say it does not work then I can't dispute that without trying it myself.

BIll

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Richard Cini via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> It's funny -- I didn't see the original reply from Bill to this message.
>
> I am aware of  the track differences and I thought Dos would format it but
> just slam the head for the last three tracks. No such luck. It actually
> complains about the disk from the beginning.
>
> The Qume 242 is a DSDD drive in case that was asked in the original
> thread, and should work in this situation.
>
> I tried to format a disk with both IMD and NFORMAT (utility I downloaded)
> and neither products a disk format that DOS likes. I'm sure it's my
> selection of parameters more so than the program itself.
>
>
>
> Rich
>
> Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> On 08/09/2017 01:41 AM, william degnan wrote:
>
> > How about booting into dos and just formatting a disk that way?
>
> Go back and read what I wrote, Bill. If single-sided media is being
> used, DOS formatting will fail as there is no single-sided high-density
> format available.
>
> Of course, if double-sided media is used, DOS formatting as a 1.2MB DOS
> disk should work--up to track 76. Note that 8" drives are 77
> track/cylinder, not 80, as the 5.25" drives are.
>
> IMD can handle the issues quite readily, as its formatting facility will
> do whatever you tell it to do.
>
> --Chuck
>
>
>

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

It's funny -- I didn't see the original reply from Bill to this message. 

I am aware of  the track differences and I thought Dos would format it but just 
slam the head for the last three tracks. No such luck. It actually complains 
about the disk from the beginning. 

The Qume 242 is a DSDD drive in case that was asked in the original thread, and 
should work in this situation. 

I tried to format a disk with both IMD and NFORMAT (utility I downloaded) and 
neither products a disk format that DOS likes. I'm sure it's my selection of 
parameters more so than the program itself. 



Rich

Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
wrote:

On 08/09/2017 01:41 AM, william degnan wrote:

> How about booting into dos and just formatting a disk that way? 

Go back and read what I wrote, Bill. If single-sided media is being
used, DOS formatting will fail as there is no single-sided high-density
format available.

Of course, if double-sided media is used, DOS formatting as a 1.2MB DOS
disk should work--up to track 76. Note that 8" drives are 77
track/cylinder, not 80, as the 5.25" drives are.

IMD can handle the issues quite readily, as its formatting facility will
do whatever you tell it to do.

--Chuck

Re: RX8 M8357 Device address.

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

it is device code 75


http://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/man/rx01.html


On 8/9/17 9:24 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> 
> 
> On 8/9/17 9:23 AM, Josh Dersch wrote:
> 
>> The manual I linked contains configuration details for the RX01, RX8E and 
>> RX11.  See page 2-10.
> 
> 
> yea, just pulled the manual and realized that, sorry.
> 
> 

Re: RX8 M8357 Device address.

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 8/9/17 9:23 AM, Josh Dersch wrote:

> The manual I linked contains configuration details for the RX01, RX8E and 
> RX11.  See page 2-10.


yea, just pulled the manual and realized that, sorry.

Re: RX8 M8357 Device address.

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk 
wrote:

>
>
> On 8/9/17 8:32 AM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 8:00 AM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Lis
> >>
> >> It looks like RX8 SEL is not asserted due to the device address not
> being
> >> set up on the DIP switches.
> >>
> >> Anybody know what they should be set to in terms of switch number,
> >> depressed/not depressed on side with numbers.
> >
> >
> > http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/disc/rx01/EK-
> RX01-OP-001_RX11UM_Nov76.pdf
>
> he asked about the RX8-E
> the maint manual is in http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/
> 102748557
> if it hasn't been scanned yet
>

The manual I linked contains configuration details for the RX01, RX8E and
RX11.  See page 2-10.

- Josh

Re: RX8 M8357 Device address.

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 8/9/17 8:32 AM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 8:00 AM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Lis
>>
>> It looks like RX8 SEL is not asserted due to the device address not being
>> set up on the DIP switches.
>>
>> Anybody know what they should be set to in terms of switch number,
>> depressed/not depressed on side with numbers.
> 
> 
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/disc/rx01/EK-RX01-OP-001_RX11UM_Nov76.pdf

he asked about the RX8-E
the maint manual is in 
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102748557
if it hasn't been scanned yet

i don't know the RX IOTs off the top of my head. bitsavers has the engr drwings 
under omnibus
it looks like only 3 bits of adr are selectable

Re: RX8 M8357 Device address.

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 8:00 AM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Hi Lis
>
> It looks like RX8 SEL is not asserted due to the device address not being
> set up on the DIP switches.
>
> Anybody know what they should be set to in terms of switch number,
> depressed/not depressed on side with numbers.


http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/disc/rx01/EK-RX01-OP-001_RX11UM_Nov76.pdf



>
>
> Rod
>
>
> --
> Wanted one pdp-8/i rocker switch leaver to copy.
>
>

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 08/09/2017 01:41 AM, william degnan wrote:

> How about booting into dos and just formatting a disk that way?  

Go back and read what I wrote, Bill.   If single-sided media is being
used, DOS formatting will fail as there is no single-sided high-density
format available.

Of course, if double-sided media is used, DOS formatting as a 1.2MB DOS
disk should work--up to track 76.   Note that 8" drives are 77
track/cylinder, not 80, as the 5.25" drives are.

IMD can handle the issues quite readily, as its formatting facility will
do whatever you tell it to do.

--Chuck

RX8 M8357 Device address.

[Rod Smallwood via cctalk]

Hi Lis

It looks like RX8 SEL is not asserted due to the device address not 
being set up on the DIP switches.


Anybody know what they should be set to in terms of switch number, 
depressed/not depressed on side with numbers.


Rod


--
Wanted one pdp-8/i rocker switch leaver to copy.

Re: recent ebay lot of assorted ICs - did somebody on the list win this?

[Alan Hightower via cctalk]

 

Will 310 ROMs work in a 300? I believe 310, 400, 600, and 1000 ROMs are
posted in Seth's emulator project's git hub. If not, I can resend them. 

-Alan 

On 2017-08-08 20:48, r.stricklin via cctalk wrote: 

> Folks;
> 
> I keep meaning to ask... a couple months ago, there was an eBay auction for a 
> fairly large assortment of miscellaneous ICs. IIRC there were a couple of 
> NS32016s, along with some other interesting spares. I was one of the 
> interested bidders, but did not win.
> 
> In the lot were a small number of ROM chips with silkscreens like AATKJ, 
> AATKL, AARAM, etc. These are AT 3B2 ROMs; the AATKx ones in particular are 
> the original 3B2/300 ROMs that are missing from my machine. If somebody from 
> the list won this lot and doesn't know what to do with these ROM chips... I'd 
> love to hear from you.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ok
> bear.
 

Re: ISO: Honeywell DPS-6 things

[Fritz Chwolka via cctalk]

I lost my cctalk/tech  so I read online.

I saved some documents here

http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/honeywell/manuals/index.html



-- 



Best Regards

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

Fritz 

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[william degnan via cctalk]

On Aug 9, 2017 1:34 AM, "Chuck Guzis via cctalk" 
wrote:
>
> Quick question, Rich--what kind of media are you using to test by
> formatting to 1.2MB?
>
> If they're SS media (as indicated by the position of the index
> aperture), your drive will probably barf if you try to access the disk
> as double-sided.   We've all been spoiled by 5.25" and 3.5" media which
> doesn't differentiate between single- or double-sided.
>
> Try using the format capability in IMD to test things.
>
> --Chuck

How about booting into dos and just formatting a disk that way?

Re: ftp.compaq.com mirror

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Tue, 8 Aug 2017, Adrian Graham wrote:
of the whole ftp site but it?s 220gb and I?m not sure my little 150mb/s 
web connection will download that in less than a month :)


You should think about the proper usage of units...

If "gb" is gigabytes, then "mb" is megabytes. With a 150 megabytes/s link 
downloading the whole archive should be very comfortable. OTOH if "mb" is 
megabits, then with 220 gigabits, it isn't that a huge archive.
In addition to that, "m" (minuscule M) stands for "milli", "M" 
(majuscule M) stands for "mega" and "G" for giga, so 150mb/s would be 150 
millibytes/second. Oh yes, "bytes" is abbreviated with a majuscule B.

==> 220 GB, 150 Mbits/s

;-)

Christian

Re: PDP-8s that was EBAY.. what is the other rack? Thought TTY inf in main box?

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 8/8/2017 9:35 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:


8 **S**  Arrgh!  The worst computer DEC ever made!  It was a real 
speed demon, when compared to computers with vacuum tubes and drum 
memory!


Jon 
The EE department had an 8S which I wish I could have gotten my hands on 
(UMR).  I had both it and an 8I in the lab in the Materials Research 
Center building and ran a number of programs on both which matched, 
great run.


The 1949 rack under the 8S backplane is a tty controller, clock and 
power supply with attendant hoses to the backplane above.


I think that may be what you were asking about.  I don't know much 8s 
history, but unlike the 8L and 8I which came with the backplane wired 
with a spot for the TTY, this may have been what you had to do to get a 
TTY attached.  Or it may be an extra second device. Perhaps someone with 
more familiarity with the 8S backplane and options might know.


thanks
Jim

Re: PDP-8s that was EBAY.. what is the other rack? Thought TTY inf in main box?

[Ed via cctalk]

In a message dated 8/8/2017 9:35:14 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
el...@pico-systems.com writes:

On  08/08/2017 10:51 PM, Ed via cctalk wrote:
> PDP-8s that was EBAY.. what  is  the other rack? Thought TTY inf. in  main
>  box?
>   
>  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEC-PDP-8-S-Minicomputer-Complete-with-original-Tele
>  type-Extremely-rare-/282485298792?hash=item41c56f9668:g:JBkAAOSwCU1Y4nfa
>
> We have an 8S in warehouse and will need to drag out and start  learning
> about it Clean it up and  get it on  display  -
> We have   CLASSIC 8  with plexi S/N #18on  display already.
>
8 **S**  Arrgh!  The worst  computer DEC ever made!  It was a 
real speed demon, when compared to  computers with vacuum 
tubes and drum memory!

Jon
 
8s was 20 microsecond  cycle  time  compared toclassic  8 at  1.5 
microsecond? ( pulling  from ancient memories  in my head... correct em if  
wrong...)

Re: PDP-8I acrylic Front Panel

[Rod Smallwood via cctalk]

On 08/08/2017 21:43, Ray Neal via cctalk wrote:

Rod;

I'm looking for a PDP-8I acrylic Front Panel for my replica PDP-8I I'm
putting together.  I have a PCB board created by Vince and in between
Hospital stays I have been able to populate it.

The next step is to either locate a frame or to find manufacturing drawing
on the aluminum frame so I can make a wax male mold form to allow me to
cast the frame. As a last resort, if I can't find drawing or a frame, then
I will attempt to locate a PDP-8 that the owner will allow me to
disassemble, photograph & take measurements, then reassemble.

Using these I can then create the drawing to allow me to create the Wax
Mold Master.

As for the acrylic if you don't have a panel in stock and don't plan to
create a new order, would you consider placing the artwork into opening
source.  This will allow people such as myself the ability to take the
artwork to a silkscreen printer and have them create the screen prints to
allow for the print of a couple of panels. (When in doubt, creat a spare).

*Note*:  Not the cheapest way to obtain a Front Panel.

Thank you for your time and the work you have done on this project.

Respectfully;

Ray Neal

Hi Ray
   PDP-8/i front panels lots of stock.
I am also working on a replica of an 8/i.
I have a working version of Vince's board.
I also have a new X-Y addressed lamp (LED) PCB layout of my own.
Its designed to be driven by a Raspberry Pi running SIM H and a bunch of 
low cost I/O boards. (which I already have)

Just add switches and you have the basis of a working 8/i.

I already managed to make a cast resin copy of an 8/e bezel and plan to 
do the same for the 8/i.


Now here's the interesting bit.
There's clearly an opportunity for us to cooperate rather than duplicate.
I would be happy to send you a 8/i panel FOC  in exchange for some other 
component you may make.


I might venture to suggest the switch panel is an area as yet unaddressed.

What do you think?

Rod Smallwood  - rodsmallwoo...@btintenet.com





--
Wanted one pdp-8/i rocker switch leaver to copy.