Trying to make it easier to find keyboards

[Electronics Plus via cctalk]

https://www.elecshopper.com/model-m-keyboards/?___store=rwd

 

I know there are no products under some categories, and no stock under
others, but does this help to make it easier to find things? Click on the
links to see the products.

 

Cindy Croxton

Electronics Plus

1613 Water Street

Kerrville, TX 78028

830-370-3239 cell

sa...@elecplus.com

 



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Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[dwight via cctalk]

I'm the victim of the spell checker. Thanks for the fix.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Fred Cisin via cctalk 

Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2018 11:05:43 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

On Wed, 11 Jul 2018, dwight via cctalk wrote:
> Next is the smooth orange oil hand cleaner. ( not the stuff with pumas
> ). Really cleans things great and good for killing ants. Again, rinse
> maybe it might need a little detergent and then rinse.

Don't use pumice to clean off the pumas.  (they won't like it)
Stick with well whale oil.

Re: Anyone have a HALstation 300 install CD?

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

that would be great. I've not been able to get Jason's images to boot

I also got a Sparcstation 5 running Solaris 2.6 and have had no luck getting it 
to recognize the HAL boot drives.

Their is something odd about the drives, I've only been able to image one of 
the boot drives on a Linux machine
even though they boot fine.


On 7/11/18 11:12 AM, dwight wrote:
> Hi Al
> 
>  I have a line on a CD and may be find some documents to go with it. A friend 
> has this and I hope to get a copy next
> week on Tues or Wed. Are you going to be at the Museum next week. I don't 
> know where you office is on the East bay side.
> It might be closer.
> 
> Dwight
> 
> 
> *From:* cctalk  on behalf of Al Kossow via 
> cctalk 
> *Sent:* Monday, July 9, 2018 1:34:24 PM
> *To:* cctalk@classiccmp.org
> *Subject:* Re: Anyone have a HALstation 300 install CD?
>  
> cool, thanks!
> 
> I don't currently have a Solaris box set up or I would have edited
> the password file, after dealing with finding an 80 to 50 pin adapter
> for the drive.
> 
> On 7/9/18 1:31 PM, Jason T via cctalk wrote:
>> Al - I made ISOs of the media I had before giving away my HALstations
>> in 2009.  I will email you directly with a link.
> 

TRS-80 Model 2000 Keyboard

[Electronics Plus via cctalk]

https://www.elecshopper.com/tandy-trs-80-model-2000-keyboard.html

 

 

Cindy Croxton

Electronics Plus

1613 Water Street

Kerrville, TX 78028

830-370-3239 cell

sa...@elecplus.com

 

 



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Osborne 1 keyboard

[Electronics Plus via cctalk]

https://www.elecshopper.com/osborne-1-keyboard.html

I have no way to test it.

 

Cindy Croxton

Electronics Plus

1613 Water Street

Kerrville, TX 78028

830-370-3239 cell

sa...@elecplus.com

 



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Re: An historical nit about FDDs

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 07/11/2018 11:12 AM, Tom Gardner via cctalk wrote:
> Anyone know where the Step/Direction version of the FDD interface
> originated.
> 
> So far as near as I can tell the earliest FDDs (IBM 23FD Minnow and Memorex
> 650/651) used Step In/Step Out. The IBM 33FD Igar used direct control of the
> motor.
> 
> The earliest Step/Direction FDD I can find is the Shugart 800 which first
> shipped in September 1973.

Shugart is probably it, unless there's a hard drive interface that
precedes it.  Mostly a minimal bit of logical difference between the
Step in/Step out  and Step/Direction.  One can be converted to the other
rather easily.

--Chuck

An historical nit about FDDs

[Tom Gardner via cctalk]

Anyone know where the Step/Direction version of the FDD interface
originated.

So far as near as I can tell the earliest FDDs (IBM 23FD Minnow and Memorex
650/651) used Step In/Step Out. The IBM 33FD Igar used direct control of the
motor.

The earliest Step/Direction FDD I can find is the Shugart 800 which first
shipped in September 1973.

Tom

Re: Anyone have a HALstation 300 install CD?

[dwight via cctalk]

Hi Al

 I have a line on a CD and may be find some documents to go with it. A friend 
has this and I hope to get a copy next week on Tues or Wed. Are you going to be 
at the Museum next week. I don't know where you office is on the East bay side. 
It might be closer.

Dwight


From: cctalk  on behalf of Al Kossow via cctalk 

Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 1:34:24 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Anyone have a HALstation 300 install CD?

cool, thanks!

I don't currently have a Solaris box set up or I would have edited
the password file, after dealing with finding an 80 to 50 pin adapter
for the drive.

On 7/9/18 1:31 PM, Jason T via cctalk wrote:
> Al - I made ISOs of the media I had before giving away my HALstations
> in 2009.  I will email you directly with a link.

Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Wed, 11 Jul 2018, dwight via cctalk wrote:
Next is the smooth orange oil hand cleaner. ( not the stuff with pumas 
). Really cleans things great and good for killing ants. Again, rinse 
maybe it might need a little detergent and then rinse.


Don't use pumice to clean off the pumas.  (they won't like it)
Stick with well whale oil.

Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[dwight via cctalk]

I forgot one


Butter. Also needs detergent cleaning afterwards.

Dwight





From: cctalk  on behalf of dwight via cctalk 

Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2018 10:29:41 AM
To: Al Kossow; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

I don't recall the concentration I used. I would recommend not using it for 
most conditions. I recall that I'd tried various other cleaning methods. I 
recall using water, water/detergent and may have even tried windex(?). None of 
the other things would touch it. The stuff on the surfaces was the adhesive use 
to hold the fiber envelope liners in place. I removed the disk from their 
envelopes and placed the disk on a clean flat plastic surface. I use swabs to 
rub the areas effected ( it looked similar to what we call screen fungus ). I 
went through a lot of swabs and I believe I rinsed them afterwards.

There are a few other cleaning methods that one might try. I've never tried 
these myself

The first might make you cringe a little. That is to use saliva. It is actually 
a type of digesting fluid. Of course, rinse it off when you get the offending 
stuff loose.

Next is the smooth orange oil hand cleaner. ( not the stuff with pumas ). 
Really cleans things great and good for killing ants. Again, rinse maybe it 
might need a little detergent and then rinse.

WIndex, maybe.

GooGone, also a maybe ( I expect it to damage the disk but who knows )

In general I'd go with Chuck's advice. He has done more work with disk and 
tapes than anyone here else except possibly Al.

Dwight




From: cctalk  on behalf of Al Kossow via cctalk 

Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2018 9:10:14 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying



On 7/11/18 8:57 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote:
> Be wary though, domestic ovens apparently fluctuate wildly.

Use a food dehydrator

this is the unit I use for QIC tapes (weston 10 tray stainless steel dehydrator 
model 74-1001-2)

https://www.ebay.com/itm//113143490361
[https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/113143490361-0-1/s-l1000.jpg]

Weston Commercial Stainless Steel 10 Tray Food Dehydrator 1000W 638029776257 | 
eBay
www.ebay.com
It is 1000 watts. It is in good used condition with no dings and in good 
working condition. Great for jerky, vegetables or fruit. | eBay!



but I do them a couple dozen at at time

Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[dwight via cctalk]

I don't recall the concentration I used. I would recommend not using it for 
most conditions. I recall that I'd tried various other cleaning methods. I 
recall using water, water/detergent and may have even tried windex(?). None of 
the other things would touch it. The stuff on the surfaces was the adhesive use 
to hold the fiber envelope liners in place. I removed the disk from their 
envelopes and placed the disk on a clean flat plastic surface. I use swabs to 
rub the areas effected ( it looked similar to what we call screen fungus ). I 
went through a lot of swabs and I believe I rinsed them afterwards.

There are a few other cleaning methods that one might try. I've never tried 
these myself

The first might make you cringe a little. That is to use saliva. It is actually 
a type of digesting fluid. Of course, rinse it off when you get the offending 
stuff loose.

Next is the smooth orange oil hand cleaner. ( not the stuff with pumas ). 
Really cleans things great and good for killing ants. Again, rinse maybe it 
might need a little detergent and then rinse.

WIndex, maybe.

GooGone, also a maybe ( I expect it to damage the disk but who knows )

In general I'd go with Chuck's advice. He has done more work with disk and 
tapes than anyone here else except possibly Al.

Dwight




From: cctalk  on behalf of Al Kossow via cctalk 

Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2018 9:10:14 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying



On 7/11/18 8:57 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote:
> Be wary though, domestic ovens apparently fluctuate wildly.

Use a food dehydrator

this is the unit I use for QIC tapes (weston 10 tray stainless steel dehydrator 
model 74-1001-2)

https://www.ebay.com/itm//113143490361
[https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/113143490361-0-1/s-l1000.jpg]

Weston Commercial Stainless Steel 10 Tray Food Dehydrator 1000W 638029776257 | 
eBay
www.ebay.com
It is 1000 watts. It is in good used condition with no dings and in good 
working condition. Great for jerky, vegetables or fruit. | eBay!



but I do them a couple dozen at at time

Re: 360 Technologies selloff

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 at 18:58, Electronics Plus via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> If there are not too many requests, you can send me PN, and I can see who is 
> ACTUALLY listing them, not just advertising.

Well, I'm still looking for an IBM PC-AT Model F keyboard. :-)

US layout would be a challenge but not an insuperable one. I don't use
a £ much any more since I don't like in the UK any more...

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

RE: 360 Technologies selloff

[Electronics Plus via cctalk]

Are there any HP resellers left now that have
their own inventory and don't speculatively list parts that they don't
have or never had?

Sure! The problem is that most of them don't know that collectors still want 
old stuff. Continental Computers in Calif has old DEC, SUN, and old and new HP 
stuff. Pallets of it! They just don't advertise it.

If there are not too many requests, you can send me PN, and I can see who is 
ACTUALLY listing them, not just advertising.

Cindy


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Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 7/11/18 8:57 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote:
> Be wary though, domestic ovens apparently fluctuate wildly.

Use a food dehydrator

this is the unit I use for QIC tapes (weston 10 tray stainless steel dehydrator 
model 74-1001-2)

https://www.ebay.com/itm//113143490361

but I do them a couple dozen at at time

RE: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

Be wary though, domestic ovens apparently fluctuate wildly. I did have success 
with some TK50s in our fan oven set at 40C

Sent from my Windows 10 phone

From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk
Sent: 11 July 2018 16:31
To: Adrian Graham via cctalk
Subject: Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

On 07/11/2018 02:53 AM, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:

> What temperature oven?

58C +/- 0.5C

--Chuck

Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 7/11/18 8:20 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> 
> 
> On 7/11/18 2:21 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> I use Screen 99 for cleaning floppies
> 
> MSDS
> 
> https://store.comet.bg/download-file.php?id=16956
> 
> first ingredient listed; isopropyl alcohol
> 
> 


Since I haven't mentioned it for a while, I had the best results with the old 
"Weber Costello Markerboard Cleaner",

(Octylphenoxy Polyethoxyethanol (Triton X-100) and Trisodium Phosphate) which 
is photoflow and a surficant.

then they changed the formula to make it 'green' :-(

Bought a few ingredients (Triton X-100 and Ethylene Glycol) but haven't tried 
making anything.

What you want is a lubricant and a cleaning agent that will take off any gunk 
on the surface without softening the binder.

Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 07/11/2018 02:53 AM, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:

> What temperature oven?

58C +/- 0.5C

--Chuck

Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 7/11/18 2:21 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:

> I use Screen 99 for cleaning floppies

MSDS

https://store.comet.bg/download-file.php?id=16956

first ingredient listed; isopropyl alcohol

Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

> On 11 Jul 2018, at 03:15, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> No, no, no! Do not use isopropanol to clean floppies--you'll wind up
> with a soft oxide coating and a brown rag.  Were these mine, I'd first
> remove them from their jackets and then bake them and then clean them
> with distilled water and perhaps a couple of drops of a wetting agent
> (Kodak Photo-flo is a good) choice--a couple of drops goes a long way).
> 
> You should be good to go--at least my experience tells me that.


Hi Chuck,

What temperature oven?

Cheers,

-- 
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection?
t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

> On 11 Jul 2018, at 09:33, Terry Stewart via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Just my experience,  I once did a trial where I took two identical 5,25
> inch disks of the same batch from the same manufacturer.  These were clean
> disks which both formatted and verified just fine, but I wanted to see if
> IPA did indeed damage the disk.
> 
> One I swabbed one with 75% IPA, the other with warm water with a touch of
> dishwashing liquid.
> 
> On checking the IPA swabbed disk now showed a few damaged sectors.  The
> water/detergent one did not.
> 
> It's not scientific (just one rep) and I was quite aggressive with the
> wiping.  However, it made me steer away from IPA.  Immersing the platters
> in warm water with a touch of detergent, and gently wiping (then air
> drying) works well for me when cleaning "dirty disks".
> 
> Terry (Tez)
> 
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 8:17 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


Thanks everyone!

I found another box so I’ve got 20 ‘new’ ones now. I’ll try all of the above 
methods and see where it gets me. Pity I don’t have any spare jackets but my 
plan was to attempt to get the CPT to boot and since the original boot disk has 
damaged sectors 0-3 and the previous owner didn’t make a copy I’m a bit stuck 
anyway.

It was good to be able to see actual documents on the data disks with ANADISK 
though, cheers Chuck :)

-- 
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection?
t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Wed, 11 Jul 2018, dwight wrote:
I've had the goo from the adhesive of 5.25 inch 360k disk come through 
the nice liner and make gobs on the disk. I tried several thing but 
found that isopropanol worked without removing any of the magnetic 
material ( maybe s tiny amount that was likely loose already ). I'm not 
saying it would be the same for 8 inch disk. Once working I did copy 
them to floppies without liners.


I use Screen 99 for cleaning floppies, and that has proved to be the best 
so far, giving a clean and smooth surface. There's no need to grapple with 
several different fluids. I don't even use lint-free cloths and the like, 
I use paper towels. The surface is so smooth that all the remaining dust 
can be blown away easily.


Christian

Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[Terry Stewart via cctalk]

Just my experience,  I once did a trial where I took two identical 5,25
inch disks of the same batch from the same manufacturer.  These were clean
disks which both formatted and verified just fine, but I wanted to see if
IPA did indeed damage the disk.

One I swabbed one with 75% IPA, the other with warm water with a touch of
dishwashing liquid.

On checking the IPA swabbed disk now showed a few damaged sectors.  The
water/detergent one did not.

It's not scientific (just one rep) and I was quite aggressive with the
wiping.  However, it made me steer away from IPA.  Immersing the platters
in warm water with a touch of detergent, and gently wiping (then air
drying) works well for me when cleaning "dirty disks".

Terry (Tez)

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 8:17 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Fred asked
> > What concentration of IPA were you using?
>
> 99% Laboratory grade. Not very pleasant to have on the skin, it dries it
> out shockingly.
>
> > There might be a difference in results between 70% and 91%
> >
> > There might also even be a difference in the oxide formulation between
> > brands.  (If Chuck was trying to clean a Wabash, then it might dissolve
> > right through the plastic.)
>
> I've had Computer Resources, Wabash and other cheap diskettes long ago,
> they were
> none too good. Verbatim and Dysan always seemed pretty reliable for me.
>
>

Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[Steve Malikoff via cctalk]

Fred asked
> What concentration of IPA were you using?

99% Laboratory grade. Not very pleasant to have on the skin, it dries it out 
shockingly.

> There might be a difference in results between 70% and 91%
>
> There might also even be a difference in the oxide formulation between
> brands.  (If Chuck was trying to clean a Wabash, then it might dissolve
> right through the plastic.)

I've had Computer Resources, Wabash and other cheap diskettes long ago, they 
were
none too good. Verbatim and Dysan always seemed pretty reliable for me.

Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 07/10/2018 09:14 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote:

> So there you have it. I'm not asserting that all diskettes were manufactured 
> as well as this IBM one but I stand by
> what I suggested, I would certainly try IPA again if I had to. By the 1970s I 
> would think a diskette surface had come a
> long way from my dad's RAMAC days and even the 1/2" magnetic tape from the 
> 50s and 60s, where I would be considerably
> more reticent trying this.

Well, they're your disks.   I've seen a system for reading magnetic tape
where a continuous bath was used to combad sticky-shed, but there were
no comments on the condition of the medium after reading.

If these were my disks, I wipe them down with cyclomethicone.  That
would at least lubricate them and leave them (after evaporation) in
pretty much the same state as you started.

Remember that a fatty acid usually was used as a medium lubricant when
these disks were manufactured.  The last thing in the world you want to
do is dissolve this and remove it.

But, as I remarked, they're your disks.  I've certainly seen my share of
8" CPT floppies--and 1960s 1/2" tape.

--Chuck