[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Alexander Schreiber via cctalk]

On Mon, May 06, 2024 at 08:54:53PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> On 5/6/24 20:25, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>  https://www.ebay.com/itm/134706639303
> > 
> > include a basic feature for rewinding rental DVDs before returning them.
> > 
> Of course, you need a pure silver AC cable for those:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/115970049389

Wow, the description text is hilarious: "[..] the mid frequency is loose
and hydrated [..]" I sure hope those cables are properly sealed, wouldn't
want some hydrated mid freqency sloshing onto the shag pile!

SCNR,
   Alex.
-- 
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
 looks like work."  -- Thomas A. Edison

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Chris Elmquist via cctalk]

On Monday (05/06/2024 at 06:58PM -0700), Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> Ignorant question:
> 
> Q: When looking for current availability of bulk tape/disk demagnetizers, on
> eBay, I ran into a lot of CD/DVD demagnetizers
> What kind of a problem do they have with magnetism?

I think you can also fix this problem by coloring around the outer edge
of the disc with a green magic marker.  Has to be green though.

Chris
-- 
Chris Elmquist

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Don R via cctalk]

That would just about break my piggy bank, and it wouldn’t even fit the 
connector on the back of the machine.  :(

Don Resor

Sent from someone's iPhone

> On May 6, 2024, at 9:33 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:
> 
> On 5/6/24 2116, Don R wrote:
>> Maybe I need one of these power cords for my Monroe-Litton 1830 aka 
>> Compucorp 485.   It might make the calculations more precise?  ;)
> 
> That's the economy version.  If you're *really* serious, you'll grab
> this one (on sale: 6% off!):
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/116042610200
> 
> --Chuck
> 

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 5/6/24 21:16, Don R wrote:
> Maybe I need one of these power cords for my Monroe-Litton 1830 aka 
> Compucorp 485.   It might make the calculations more precise?  ;)

That's the economy version.  If you're *really* serious, you'll grab
this one (on sale: 6% off!):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/116042610200

--Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Don R via cctalk]

Maybe I need one of these power cords for my Monroe-Litton 1830 aka Compucorp 
485.   It might make the calculations more precise?  ;)

Don Resor

Sent from someone's iPhone

> On May 6, 2024, at 8:55 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 5/6/24 20:25, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/134706639303
>> include a basic feature for rewinding rental DVDs before returning them.
> Of course, you need a pure silver AC cable for those:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/115970049389
> 
> --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Don R via cctalk]

Maybe I need one of these power cords for my Monroe-Litton 1830 aka Compucorp 
485.   It might make the calculations more precise?  ;)

Don Resor

Sent from someone's iPhone

> On May 6, 2024, at 8:55 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 5/6/24 20:25, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/134706639303
>> 
>> include a basic feature for rewinding rental DVDs before returning them.
>> 
> Of course, you need a pure silver AC cable for those:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/115970049389
> 
> --Chuck
> 

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 5/6/24 20:25, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
 https://www.ebay.com/itm/134706639303
> 
> include a basic feature for rewinding rental DVDs before returning them.
> 
Of course, you need a pure silver AC cable for those:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115970049389

--Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Ignorant question:
Q: When looking for current availability of bulk tape/disk demagnetizers,
on eBay, I ran into a lot of CD/DVD demagnetizers
What kind of a problem do they have with magnetism?
Or is this like the DVD REWINDERS?


On Mon, 6 May 2024, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:

A must-have accessory to go with your oxygen-free cables.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/vs_demagnetizer_e.html


OK
But, neither this one for $80.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/265168453635
nor even this one for $3600
https://www.ebay.com/itm/134706639303

include a basic feature for rewinding rental DVDs before returning them.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Ali via cctalk]

Fred

Never underestimate the sheer ludicrosity and gullibility of an audiophile!

-Ali

> -Original Message-
> From: Fred Cisin via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org]
> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2024 6:58 PM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Cc: Fred Cisin
> Subject: [cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks
>
> Ignorant question:
>
> Q: When looking for current availability of bulk tape/disk
> demagnetizers,
> on eBay, I ran into a lot of CD/DVD demagnetizers
> What kind of a problem do they have with magnetism?
>
> Or is this like the DVD REWINDERS?

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Will Cooke via cctalk]

> On 05/06/2024 8:58 PM CDT Fred Cisin via cctalk  wrote:
>
>
> Ignorant question:
>
> Q: When looking for current availability of bulk tape/disk demagnetizers,
> on eBay, I ran into a lot of CD/DVD demagnetizers
> What kind of a problem do they have with magnetism?
>
> Or is this like the DVD REWINDERS?

A must-have accessory to go with your oxygen-free cables.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/vs_demagnetizer_e.html

Will

Grownups never understand anything by themselves and it is tiresome for 
children to be always and forever explaining things to them,

Antoine de Saint-Exupery in The Little Prince

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

Radio Shack sold two models: the original, suitable for cassettes and audio
tapes, and a later, larger and more powerful version for video tapes as
well (44-233A). I keep one of those plugged in beside my desk and still use
it fairly often, but I'm planning to build one of Chuck's one of these days
(that one minute on, 30 minute off (officially ;-) duty cycle is a PITA if
you're degaussing a bunch of disks).

On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 9:42 PM Mike Katz via cctalk 
wrote:

> I also have one of those from Radio Shack that I have had for more than
> 30 years.
>
> On 5/6/2024 8:30 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> > On 5/6/24 15:12, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> >> Radio Shack used to sell a "Bulk Tape Eraser".  I gave mine to the
> college.
> >> Those are on eBay, and even Amazon.
> >>
> > I've had one of those for years. Resembles a kitchen Mixmaster without
> > the beaters.   The problem is that it has a limited working period of
> > about a minute before it gets too hot and the thermal cutout stops the
> fun.
> >
> > --Chuck
> >
> >
>
>

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Ignorant question:

Q: When looking for current availability of bulk tape/disk demagnetizers, 
on eBay, I ran into a lot of CD/DVD demagnetizers

What kind of a problem do they have with magnetism?

Or is this like the DVD REWINDERS?

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

I also have one of those from Radio Shack that I have had for more than 
30 years.


On 5/6/2024 8:30 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 5/6/24 15:12, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

Radio Shack used to sell a "Bulk Tape Eraser".  I gave mine to the college.
Those are on eBay, and even Amazon.


I've had one of those for years. Resembles a kitchen Mixmaster without
the beaters.   The problem is that it has a limited working period of
about a minute before it gets too hot and the thermal cutout stops the fun.

--Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 5/6/24 15:12, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> Radio Shack used to sell a "Bulk Tape Eraser".  I gave mine to the college.
> Those are on eBay, and even Amazon.
> 
I've had one of those for years. Resembles a kitchen Mixmaster without
the beaters.   The problem is that it has a limited working period of
about a minute before it gets too hot and the thermal cutout stops the fun.

--Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Radio Shack used to sell a "Bulk Tape Eraser".  I gave mine to the 
college.

Those are on eBay, and even Amazon.

About 25 years ago, Radio Shack/Tandy changed the label and box, and 
called it "Bulk Disk Eraser".

The college bought one, and discarded mine.



But, as everyone knows, the one SURE way to totaally erase a disk is to 
store the only copy of something irreplaceable on it.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Wayne S via cctalk]

I wonder if one of the old CRT demagnetizer‘s would work.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 6, 2024, at 13:30, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 5/6/2024 2:28 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
> > You do need a very strong magnet. I’ve put 3.5 floppies on top of
> > a mag tape demagnitizer ( not technically called that, but you know
> > what i mean) and it had no effect at all. I could still read them fine
> > in my pc. I surmised that the magnetic field generated was not strong
> > enough to get through the plastic disk shield. Gave up after that.
> 
> And yet, I have a cheap Radio Shack tape degauzer and it erases
> 3.5" disks just fine.  I do it all the time whenever I have
> one that refuses to reformat.  Quick pass over the degauzer
> and they usually work fine.  If not, time to toss them.
> As for 720K disks I bought a box of new ones (12 boxes actually)
> several years ago on eBay and expect they will out last me.
> Especially now that I am moving everything to Goteks.
> 
> bill

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/6/2024 2:28 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
> You do need a very strong magnet. I’ve put 3.5 floppies on top of
> a mag tape demagnitizer ( not technically called that, but you know
> what i mean) and it had no effect at all. I could still read them fine
> in my pc. I surmised that the magnetic field generated was not strong
> enough to get through the plastic disk shield. Gave up after that.

And yet, I have a cheap Radio Shack tape degauzer and it erases
3.5" disks just fine.  I do it all the time whenever I have
one that refuses to reformat.  Quick pass over the degauzer
and they usually work fine.  If not, time to toss them.
As for 720K disks I bought a box of new ones (12 boxes actually)
several years ago on eBay and expect they will out last me.
Especially now that I am moving everything to Goteks.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 11:59 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 5/6/24 11:28, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
> > You do need a very strong magnet. I’ve put 3.5 floppies on top of a mag
> tape demagnitizer ( not technically called that, but you know what i mean)
> and it had no effect at all. I could still read them fine in my pc. I
> surmised that the magnetic field generated was not strong enough to get
> through the plastic disk shield. Gave up after that.
>
> I made my own PM demagnetizer (I do own a bulk videotape eraser also,
> but this one is so convenient and works very well).  The trick was to
> use two magnets with like poles facing.  I got the magnets from a
> magnetron--it took a fair amount of clamping to get the things set in
> place.   Unlike poles facing doesn't work, BTW.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/MUKTExa.jpg
>
> --Chuck
>

At the old Alameda County Computer Resource Center (the non-profit computer
recycler I was shacked up with before I got my own warehouse and started my
own recycling operation), James ("God") designed a bulk demagnetizer that
accommodated several hundred 3.5" floppies at a time.  He'd run it for I
think 20 minutes (the period of time he determined was required for 100%
erasure of data), which also had the side effect of heating up the disks,
which had the desirable side effect of making it much easier to peel off
the labels.  They sold bulk recycled 3.5" disks and made good money off it
(this is late 1990s).

I wish I could remember the details of how he made it, but he basically
took some existing thing and either modded it in some way or simply
re-purposed it from its intended purpose to conveniently demagnetize floppy
disks.

Sellam

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 5/6/24 11:28, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
> You do need a very strong magnet. I’ve put 3.5 floppies on top of a mag tape 
> demagnitizer ( not technically called that, but you know what i mean) and it 
> had no effect at all. I could still read them fine in my pc. I surmised that 
> the magnetic field generated was not strong enough to get through the plastic 
> disk shield. Gave up after that. 

I made my own PM demagnetizer (I do own a bulk videotape eraser also,
but this one is so convenient and works very well).  The trick was to
use two magnets with like poles facing.  I got the magnets from a
magnetron--it took a fair amount of clamping to get the things set in
place.   Unlike poles facing doesn't work, BTW.

https://i.imgur.com/MUKTExa.jpg

--Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Wayne S via cctalk]

You do need a very strong magnet. I’ve put 3.5 floppies on top of a mag tape 
demagnitizer ( not technically called that, but you know what i mean) and it 
had no effect at all. I could still read them fine in my pc. I surmised that 
the magnetic field generated was not strong enough to get through the plastic 
disk shield. Gave up after that. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 6, 2024, at 03:28, Just Kant via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> I have a vague recollection of someone telling me there was a trick to 
> demagnetizing high density disks. Perhaps wave a magnet in various ways, even 
> moving the magnet to and from the disk's surface. Then again maybe it's just 
> a chatgpt style hallucination. Wouldn't hurt to try though.

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Just Kant via cctalk]

I have a vague recollection of someone telling me there was a trick to 
demagnetizing high density disks. Perhaps wave a magnet in various ways, even 
moving the magnet to and from the disk's surface. Then again maybe it's just a 
chatgpt style hallucination. Wouldn't hurt to try though.

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, Mike Katz wrote:
The HP9114A drive uses a modified Sony 3.5" floppy drive running at 600 RPM 
instead of the normal 300 RPM.  This is an extremely unusual configuration 
that is different from any PC/MAC/Commodore/Amiga situation.


I am using normal HD floppies in those 600 RPM Sony drives (HP 9121). I 
haven't had any issues for now.


Christian

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, Mike Katz wrote:
I have tried bulk erasing 1.44 MB disks and they still won't format in the 
HP9114A battery operated HP-IL Floppy Disk drive.


Then I'd guess there is a problem with your drive; write-protect switch?

Christian

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

On 4/30/2024 4:07 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:

What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive?

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk  wrote:

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote:

Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy disk hole to
make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format as 720, you
could specify size or sector count with format.com in dos.

Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps.


I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25 disks being
formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems in my
limited use.

3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted;
5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted;
a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well;
a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K") sill self erase VERY soon, sometimes 
before you can even get it over to another machine.  We had a college purchasing agent in bed with 
"Roytype", who kept giving us "1.2M" floppies ofr out TRS80s; they self erased very soon.

--
Grumpy Ol' fredci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Joshua Rice via cctalk]

I can't vouch for later drives, but the earliest 600RPM Sony drives were 
built we no knowledge of HD vs DD, so covering the HD hole is probably a 
moot point in the HP drives, though it is likely worth taping over it 
for any formatting options.


It's worth noting that the speed is pretty much a moot point as well. As 
long as the data is written on the disks correctly by the modern 
machine, the older 600RPM drives should have no problem reading it. My 
RCA MS2000 reads floppies written in modern machines perfectly fine and 
that has even more oddball single sided 600RPM drives.


As someone else said, the disk loading mechanism gets very stiff as the 
lubricant solidifies. It's quite easy to free it up with some IPA and 
patience. I'd be very careful not to ruin the upper heads on dual sided 
drives by forcing disks in and out though. Thankfully a moot point with 
my drives!


Could be that the drive heads need cleaning and alignment. Have you had 
any success formatting disks on the target machine, if possible?


Josh Rice

On 30/04/2024 21:06, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
Thank you for trying to help.  My situation is unusual at best and I'm 
apologize for the extra bandwidth my question is causing.


*snip*

The HP9114A drive uses a modified Sony 3.5" floppy drive running at 
600 RPM instead of the normal 300 RPM.  This is an extremely unusual 
configuration that is different from any PC/MAC/Commodore/Amiga 
situation.


*snip*

Than you again everyone for offering to help,

  Mike

On 4/30/2024 2:41 PM, Wayne S wrote:

What errors are you seeing?


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 12:29, Mike Katz via cctalk 
 wrote:


I have tried bulk erasing 1.44 MB disks and they still won't format 
in the HP9114A battery operated HP-IL Floppy Disk drive.



On 4/30/2024 12:20 PM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:

On 30/04/2024 18:08, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:

Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?
I think it's entirely possible. I'd definitely format them in a 
720kb drive though to be extra safe. Though original 720KB disks 
written/formatted  in 1.44MB drives seem perfectly cromulent from 
my experience.


However don't quote me on it, The only double density drives i have 
are super early Sony ones built in 1982 and they get pampered with 
NOS 720kb media (with the sliders sellotaped open because no auto 
opening shutters on my drives!)


Josh Rice

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 5:38 AM Paul Berger via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> As Mike said there are two models 9114A and 9114B, they are functionally
> equivalent, however the B model uses a 1/2 high drive mechanism and I
> believe there are changes to the controller as well, but I have only
> seen the inside of a B model.

I've got both types and not surprisingly have been inside them.

The controllers are similar in design -- the main changes are for the
different drive type and the better battery status monitor on the 'B'
-- but are not interchangeable. You probably could get it to work,
but..

The -A uses the original Sony 3.5" double-head drive. This always runs
at 600rpm, the HP one is not modified. The -B uses a later drive, also
600rpm, which shares a lot of parts with the Apple 800K drive (head
carriage, stepper motor, analogue IC...) should you need to do
repairs. The older drive has a 26 pin data cable and separate 4 pin
power cable, the later drive has a 34 pin cable for data and power
(power is on some of the odd-numbered pin, they are not all grounds as
you might expect).

The disk-inserted sensor on the -A is a spring-loaded plastic part
which interrupts the beam of a slotted optoswitch on the motor PCB
when a disk is present. Amazingly it lines up with the 'high desity
hole' in 1.4M disks. So unless you rigidly block that hole it is
likely the drive will not detect such a disk.  As others have said the
1.4M disks are higher coercivity so using them is unreliable at best.

-tony

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Paul Berger via cctalk]

Well from pictures I found online at 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/315148732505 it would seem that the A model 
just said "9114" on the front however the serial number label on the 
bottom says 9114A.


Paul.

On 2024-05-01 4:39 a.m., Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:

Thanks, Paul,

I'm aware of the 9114A and B versions and some of the differences, but I'm
wondering whether my 9114 is identical to the 9114A.

Is it maybe like World War I  which was just 'The Great War' until WW
II came along; same war, different name.

m

On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 12:38 AM Paul Berger via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


As Mike said there are two models 9114A and 9114B, they are functionally
equivalent, however the B model uses a 1/2 high drive mechanism and I
believe there are changes to the controller as well, but I have only
seen the inside of a B model.

Paul.

On 2024-04-30 8:29 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:

I am not familiar with a 9114 only the 9114A and 9114B.

On 4/30/2024 6:15 PM, Mike Stein wrote:

Just wondering: I see 9114 and 9114A being used interchangeably (mine
are 9114s); are they the same or actually different drives?

m


On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 5:39 PM Mike Katz via cctalk
 wrote:

 Thank you for your help.

 That is the command I am using on the 41 to try and format the disk.
 With a directory size of 60.

 On 4/30/2024 4:22 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
 > Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive.
 The NEWM command formats a new disk.
 > Link is
https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78
 >
 >
 > Sent from my iPhone
 >
 > On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S 
wrote:
 >
 > What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive?
 >
 > Sent from my iPhone
 >
 > On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk
  wrote:
 >
 > On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
 > Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy
 disk hole to
 > make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format
 as 720, you
 > could specify size or sector count with format.com
  in dos.
 >
 > Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps.
 >
 > I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25
 disks being
 > formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems
in my
 > limited use.
 >
 > 3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted;
 > 5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted;
 > a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well;
 > a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K")
 sill self erase VERY soon, sometimes before you can even get it
 over to another machine.  We had a college purchasing agent in bed
 with "Roytype", who kept giving us "1.2M" floppies ofr out TRS80s;
 they self erased very soon.
 >
 > --
 > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 at 18:08, Mike Katz via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> Does anybody have any extra 720K (double sided, double density) 3.5"
> Floppy Disks that could use a good home?
>
> If so, please email me directly at bit...@12bitsbest.com.

In what country? That massively impacts many people's willingness to donate.

If in the USA, you could buy some from https://www.floppydisk.com/

«
3.5" floppy DS/DD MF2-DD
"Double Density" "Low density" "720K"

50 New Black DS/DD 720K IBM Format
$99.95

50 New Black DS/DD  NOT FORMATTED
$99.95

50 DS/DD 720K disks
Recycled disks--Guaranteed 100%
$34.95
Recycled disks are tested, reformated, and relabeled in our facility.
»


-- 
Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

Thanks, Paul,

I'm aware of the 9114A and B versions and some of the differences, but I'm
wondering whether my 9114 is identical to the 9114A.

Is it maybe like World War I  which was just 'The Great War' until WW
II came along; same war, different name.

m

On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 12:38 AM Paul Berger via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> As Mike said there are two models 9114A and 9114B, they are functionally
> equivalent, however the B model uses a 1/2 high drive mechanism and I
> believe there are changes to the controller as well, but I have only
> seen the inside of a B model.
>
> Paul.
>
> On 2024-04-30 8:29 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> > I am not familiar with a 9114 only the 9114A and 9114B.
> >
> > On 4/30/2024 6:15 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
> >> Just wondering: I see 9114 and 9114A being used interchangeably (mine
> >> are 9114s); are they the same or actually different drives?
> >>
> >> m
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 5:39 PM Mike Katz via cctalk
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> Thank you for your help.
> >>
> >> That is the command I am using on the 41 to try and format the disk.
> >> With a directory size of 60.
> >>
> >> On 4/30/2024 4:22 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
> >> > Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive.
> >> The NEWM command formats a new disk.
> >> > Link is
> >> https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Sent from my iPhone
> >> >
> >> > On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S 
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive?
> >> >
> >> > Sent from my iPhone
> >> >
> >> > On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk
> >>  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
> >> > Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy
> >> disk hole to
> >> > make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format
> >> as 720, you
> >> > could specify size or sector count with format.com
> >>  in dos.
> >> >
> >> > Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps.
> >> >
> >> > I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25
> >> disks being
> >> > formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems
> >> in my
> >> > limited use.
> >> >
> >> > 3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted;
> >> > 5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted;
> >> > a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well;
> >> > a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K")
> >> sill self erase VERY soon, sometimes before you can even get it
> >> over to another machine.  We had a college purchasing agent in bed
> >> with "Roytype", who kept giving us "1.2M" floppies ofr out TRS80s;
> >> they self erased very soon.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
> >>
>

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[David Wade via cctalk]

On 01/05/2024 00:27, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:

Thank you.

My goal is not to use HD floppies on a drive not designed for them. I 
saw some on ebay and amazon but I thought I would try here to see if 
anybody had some they don't need.  I would help keep them out of the 
trash.


I have lots, but being in the UK its probably more expensive to post 
them that to buy from E-Bay.


My recent experiences with real floppies leads me to believe that almost 
all media and/or the drives are deteriorating and although I have 
several drives and lots of disks obtaining reliable performance seems as 
attainable as unicorn horns...




Thank you again.



Dave G4UGM


On 4/30/2024 6:15 PM, Wayne S wrote:
If it’s any help, i second the reformat completely a disk in a old 
pc. I had some issues many years ago where disks formatted on an ibm 
pc didn’t work correctly on a non- ibm pc. Reformatting and doing the 
error checking by reading and writing all sections fixed it. A quick 
format didn’t.
There are lotsa 720k diskette’s available for sale… prices vary. Even 
Amazon has them!


Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 30, 2024, at 15:39, Mike Katz  wrote:

Thank you.  I didn't see any new procedures that I have already tried.

I do not have a problem with the drive or with trying to format a HD 
disk with the HP-41 and therefore I was looking for a few DSDD disks 
instead of DSHD disks.



On 4/30/2024 5:13 PM, Wayne S wrote:
There is also these 2 procedures to try…. From 
https://literature.hpcalc.org/community/hp9114a-ms-en.pdf




TheHP9114Ausesdouble-sideddiscs.Dataiswrittenonboth sides of the 
disc. Thus the normal formatting procedure is double- sided 
formatting. Single-sided formatting is allowed for transferring 
data from older systems. See the next section for single-sided 
formatting.
Before a flexible disc can be used for the first time, it must be 
formatted. Formatting establishes the directory and volume label as 
wellasverifyingthatthemediaisnotdamaged.Shownnextare two ways to 
format discs. Insert a blank disc into the disc drive.
 From the P.A.M. display, pressing the “File Manager” (f2) softkey 
gets you to a “Format” softkey. Press the key labeled ““Format” 
(f5) and answer the next questions.
“Enter the disc to format”. The first disc drive is assigned the 
letter C. Type C: and press return.
“Enter a volume label (optional).” The volume label is the name you 
want to call the disc. This can be up to 11 characters. For 
example, let’s call this disc “First”. Type First and press Return.


  The information is displayed on the first two lines below the 
cursor.PresstheStartFormatkey(f1)ifthesetwolinesarecorrect.
“Formatting Disc. Please wait.” appears on the display. Formatting 
a disc takes about 1 1/2 minutes. The interleave used with this 
formattingmethodis8,theoptimalforHP Portable/9114A operation.
After formatting is complete, pressing the “’Exit Format” (f8) 
softkey returns you to the main File Manager display. To exit File 
Manager press the “Exit File Manager” softkey. This ends the format 
procedure.
ThesecondmethodofformattingdiscsistousetheMSDOS Format command. 
From the initial P.A.M. display, tabbing over to the area called 
“DOS Commands” and pressing “Return” allows you to use the DOS 
command called Format. The interleave used inthiscommand 
is8whichisoptimalforyourHP Portable/9114A system.

Type FORMAT C: and press Return.
“Press any key to begin formatting C:” is displayed. Press any key 
on the keyboard. Formatting takes about 1 1/2 minutes.
After formatting is complete there is another prompt on the display 
““Volume label (11 characters, Enter for none)?. *“Press “Return”if 
you don’t want a label or enter the name and press “Return” if you 
want to label the volume.
When completed “Format another (Y/N)?” appears on the display. 
Typing “N” gets you back to entering MS DOS commands. Type “EXIT” 
to return to P.A.M.

Formatting Single-sided
TheHPPortable/9114Asystemcanformatdouble-sideddiscsina single-sided 
format. This is allowed for data compatability with other 3 
1/2-inch disc systems. There is a utility called 
“Format.Com”ontheutilitydiscsuppliedwithyourHP Portable 
computer.Youmustloadthe“Format.Com”utilityintoyourHP Portable. Use 
the following sequence.
PlacetheUtilitydiscintoyourHP9114A. TabovertotheDOS Command 
blockandpressStartApplic.


  From theMS DOS command displaytype: COPY C: FORMAT.COM A: and 
press Return
This loads the utility and allows you to use the extra parameters 
explainedinthefollowingFORMATcommand.
TheMS DOS command thatallowsthiscompatibilitywithits parameters 
isshown next.

Format C:/W -Single-sided
/X -Double-sided with 256 byte sectors
/Y -Double-sided with 512 byte sectors /Z -Double-sided with 1024 byte

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:39, Mike Katz  wrote:

Thank you for your help.

That is the command I am using on the 41 to try and format the 
disk.  With a directory size of 60.


On 4/30/2024 4:22 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wro

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Paul Berger via cctalk]

As Mike said there are two models 9114A and 9114B, they are functionally 
equivalent, however the B model uses a 1/2 high drive mechanism and I 
believe there are changes to the controller as well, but I have only 
seen the inside of a B model.


Paul.

On 2024-04-30 8:29 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:

I am not familiar with a 9114 only the 9114A and 9114B.

On 4/30/2024 6:15 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
Just wondering: I see 9114 and 9114A being used interchangeably (mine 
are 9114s); are they the same or actually different drives?


m


On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 5:39 PM Mike Katz via cctalk 
 wrote:


    Thank you for your help.

    That is the command I am using on the 41 to try and format the disk.
    With a directory size of 60.

    On 4/30/2024 4:22 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
    > Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive.
    The NEWM command formats a new disk.
    > Link is
https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78
    >
    >
    > Sent from my iPhone
    >
    > On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S  
wrote:

    >
    > What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive?
    >
    > Sent from my iPhone
    >
    > On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk
     wrote:
    >
    > On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
    > Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy
    disk hole to
    > make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format
    as 720, you
    > could specify size or sector count with format.com
     in dos.
    >
    > Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps.
    >
    > I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25
    disks being
    > formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems 
in my

    > limited use.
    >
    > 3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted;
    > 5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted;
    > a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well;
    > a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K")
    sill self erase VERY soon, sometimes before you can even get it
    over to another machine.  We had a college purchasing agent in bed
    with "Roytype", who kept giving us "1.2M" floppies ofr out TRS80s;
    they self erased very soon.
    >
    > --
    > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Wayne S via cctalk]

If you look around, there are cheaper ones.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/293053587824?chn=ps&var=591875689002&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1lR-MWapOQc-w1ymlvIpxOw36&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=591875689002_293053587824&targetid=4580702894586622&device=m&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=418640321&mkgroupid=1233652283797640&rlsatarget=pla-4580702894586622&abcId=9300602&merchantid=51291&msclkid=97c9904d0be714f7095af67c795cf5e7


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 16:47, Mike Katz via cctalk  wrote:

I tried formatting multiple times (standard operating procedure).  I don't 
have a PC with a 3.5" floppy attached any more but I did try bulk erasing the 
disk first.

On 4/30/2024 5:21 PM, Just Kant via cctalk wrote:
Format it more then once. That may afford additional stability.

Try formatting it in a pc. Then switch over to the HP.

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

I tried formatting multiple times (standard operating procedure).  I 
don't have a PC with a 3.5" floppy attached any more but I did try bulk 
erasing the disk first.


On 4/30/2024 5:21 PM, Just Kant via cctalk wrote:

Format it more then once. That may afford additional stability.

Try formatting it in a pc. Then switch over to the HP.

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

I am not familiar with a 9114 only the 9114A and 9114B.

On 4/30/2024 6:15 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
Just wondering: I see 9114 and 9114A being used interchangeably (mine 
are 9114s); are they the same or actually different drives?


m


On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 5:39 PM Mike Katz via cctalk 
 wrote:


Thank you for your help.

That is the command I am using on the 41 to try and format the disk.
With a directory size of 60.

On 4/30/2024 4:22 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
> Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive.
The NEWM command formats a new disk.
> Link is
https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S  wrote:
>
> What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
> Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy
disk hole to
> make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format
as 720, you
> could specify size or sector count with format.com
 in dos.
>
> Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps.
>
> I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25
disks being
> formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems in my
> limited use.
>
> 3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted;
> 5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted;
> a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well;
> a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K")
sill self erase VERY soon, sometimes before you can even get it
over to another machine.  We had a college purchasing agent in bed
with "Roytype", who kept giving us "1.2M" floppies ofr out TRS80s;
they self erased very soon.
>
> --
> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

Yes but hopefully less than $45 for 10 disks.

On 4/30/2024 5:29 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:

Are these the disks you need?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303254321218?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338590836&toolid=10044&customid=bb4f007d293e125433cd664c59b413a4


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 15:22, Just Kant via cctalk  wrote:

Format it more then once. That may afford additional stability.

Try formatting it in a pc. Then switch over to the HP.

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

Thank you.

My goal is not to use HD floppies on a drive not designed for them. I 
saw some on ebay and amazon but I thought I would try here to see if 
anybody had some they don't need.  I would help keep them out of the trash.


Thank you again.

On 4/30/2024 6:15 PM, Wayne S wrote:

If it’s any help, i second the reformat completely a disk in a old pc. I had 
some issues many years ago where disks formatted on an ibm pc didn’t work 
correctly on a non- ibm pc. Reformatting and doing the error checking by 
reading and writing all sections fixed it. A quick format didn’t.
There are lotsa 720k diskette’s available for sale… prices vary. Even Amazon 
has them!

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 30, 2024, at 15:39, Mike Katz  wrote:

Thank you.  I didn't see any new procedures that I have already tried.

I do not have a problem with the drive or with trying to format a HD disk with 
the HP-41 and therefore I was looking for a few DSDD disks instead of DSHD 
disks.


On 4/30/2024 5:13 PM, Wayne S wrote:
There is also these 2 procedures to try…. From 
https://literature.hpcalc.org/community/hp9114a-ms-en.pdf



TheHP9114Ausesdouble-sideddiscs.Dataiswrittenonboth sides of the disc. Thus the 
normal formatting procedure is double- sided formatting. Single-sided 
formatting is allowed for transferring data from older systems. See the next 
section for single-sided formatting.
Before a flexible disc can be used for the first time, it must be formatted. 
Formatting establishes the directory and volume label as 
wellasverifyingthatthemediaisnotdamaged.Shownnextare two ways to format discs. 
Insert a blank disc into the disc drive.
 From the P.A.M. display, pressing the “File Manager” (f2) softkey gets you to 
a “Format” softkey. Press the key labeled ““Format” (f5) and answer the next 
questions.
“Enter the disc to format”. The first disc drive is assigned the letter C. Type 
C: and press return.
“Enter a volume label (optional).” The volume label is the name you want to 
call the disc. This can be up to 11 characters. For example, let’s call this 
disc “First”. Type First and press Return.

  The information is displayed on the first two lines below the 
cursor.PresstheStartFormatkey(f1)ifthesetwolinesarecorrect.
“Formatting Disc. Please wait.” appears on the display. Formatting a disc takes 
about 1 1/2 minutes. The interleave used with this 
formattingmethodis8,theoptimalforHP Portable/9114A operation.
After formatting is complete, pressing the “’Exit Format” (f8) softkey returns 
you to the main File Manager display. To exit File Manager press the “Exit File 
Manager” softkey. This ends the format procedure.
ThesecondmethodofformattingdiscsistousetheMSDOS Format command. From the 
initial P.A.M. display, tabbing over to the area called “DOS Commands” and 
pressing “Return” allows you to use the DOS command called Format. The 
interleave used inthiscommand is8whichisoptimalforyourHP Portable/9114A system.
Type FORMAT C: and press Return.
“Press any key to begin formatting C:” is displayed. Press any key on the 
keyboard. Formatting takes about 1 1/2 minutes.
After formatting is complete there is another prompt on the display ““Volume 
label (11 characters, Enter for none)?. *“Press “Return”if you don’t want a 
label or enter the name and press “Return” if you want to label the volume.
When completed “Format another (Y/N)?” appears on the display. Typing “N” gets 
you back to entering MS DOS commands. Type “EXIT” to return to P.A.M.
Formatting Single-sided
TheHPPortable/9114Asystemcanformatdouble-sideddiscsina single-sided format. 
This is allowed for data compatability with other 3 1/2-inch disc systems. 
There is a utility called “Format.Com”ontheutilitydiscsuppliedwithyourHP 
Portable computer.Youmustloadthe“Format.Com”utilityintoyourHP Portable. Use the 
following sequence.
PlacetheUtilitydiscintoyourHP9114A. TabovertotheDOS Command 
blockandpressStartApplic.

  From theMS DOS command displaytype: COPY C: FORMAT.COM A: and press Return
This loads the utility and allows you to use the extra parameters 
explainedinthefollowingFORMATcommand.
TheMS DOS command thatallowsthiscompatibilitywithits parameters isshown next.
Format C:/W -Single-sided
/X -Double-sided with 256 byte sectors
/Y -Double-sided with 512 byte sectors /Z -Double-sided with 1024 byte

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:39, Mike Katz  wrote:

Thank you for your help.

That is the command I am using on the 41 to try and format the disk.  With a 
directory size of 60.

On 4/30/2024 4:22 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:

Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive. The NEWM command 
formats a new disk.
Link is https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S  wrote:

What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive?

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk  wrote:

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cct

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

Just wondering: I see 9114 and 9114A being used interchangeably (mine are
9114s); are they the same or actually different drives?

m


On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 5:39 PM Mike Katz via cctalk 
wrote:

> Thank you for your help.
>
> That is the command I am using on the 41 to try and format the disk.
> With a directory size of 60.
>
> On 4/30/2024 4:22 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
> > Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive. The NEWM
> command formats a new disk.
> > Link is
> https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S  wrote:
> >
> > What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
> > Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy disk hole
> to
> > make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format as 720,
> you
> > could specify size or sector count with format.com in dos.
> >
> > Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps.
> >
> > I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25 disks
> being
> > formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems in my
> > limited use.
> >
> > 3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted;
> > 5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted;
> > a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well;
> > a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K") sill self
> erase VERY soon, sometimes before you can even get it over to another
> machine.  We had a college purchasing agent in bed with "Roytype", who kept
> giving us "1.2M" floppies ofr out TRS80s; they self erased very soon.
> >
> > --
> > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
>
>

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Wayne S via cctalk]

If it’s any help, i second the reformat completely a disk in a old pc. I had 
some issues many years ago where disks formatted on an ibm pc didn’t work 
correctly on a non- ibm pc. Reformatting and doing the error checking by 
reading and writing all sections fixed it. A quick format didn’t. 
There are lotsa 720k diskette’s available for sale… prices vary. Even Amazon 
has them! 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 30, 2024, at 15:39, Mike Katz  wrote:
> 
> Thank you.  I didn't see any new procedures that I have already tried.
> 
> I do not have a problem with the drive or with trying to format a HD disk 
> with the HP-41 and therefore I was looking for a few DSDD disks instead of 
> DSHD disks.
> 
>> On 4/30/2024 5:13 PM, Wayne S wrote:
>> There is also these 2 procedures to try…. From 
>> https://literature.hpcalc.org/community/hp9114a-ms-en.pdf
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> TheHP9114Ausesdouble-sideddiscs.Dataiswrittenonboth sides of the disc. Thus 
>> the normal formatting procedure is double- sided formatting. Single-sided 
>> formatting is allowed for transferring data from older systems. See the next 
>> section for single-sided formatting.
>> Before a flexible disc can be used for the first time, it must be formatted. 
>> Formatting establishes the directory and volume label as 
>> wellasverifyingthatthemediaisnotdamaged.Shownnextare two ways to format 
>> discs. Insert a blank disc into the disc drive.
>> From the P.A.M. display, pressing the “File Manager” (f2) softkey gets you 
>> to a “Format” softkey. Press the key labeled ““Format” (f5) and answer the 
>> next questions.
>> “Enter the disc to format”. The first disc drive is assigned the letter C. 
>> Type C: and press return.
>> “Enter a volume label (optional).” The volume label is the name you want to 
>> call the disc. This can be up to 11 characters. For example, let’s call this 
>> disc “First”. Type First and press Return.
>> 
>>  The information is displayed on the first two lines below the 
>> cursor.PresstheStartFormatkey(f1)ifthesetwolinesarecorrect.
>> “Formatting Disc. Please wait.” appears on the display. Formatting a disc 
>> takes about 1 1/2 minutes. The interleave used with this 
>> formattingmethodis8,theoptimalforHP Portable/9114A operation.
>> After formatting is complete, pressing the “’Exit Format” (f8) softkey 
>> returns you to the main File Manager display. To exit File Manager press the 
>> “Exit File Manager” softkey. This ends the format procedure.
>> ThesecondmethodofformattingdiscsistousetheMSDOS Format command. From the 
>> initial P.A.M. display, tabbing over to the area called “DOS Commands” and 
>> pressing “Return” allows you to use the DOS command called Format. The 
>> interleave used inthiscommand is8whichisoptimalforyourHP Portable/9114A 
>> system.
>> Type FORMAT C: and press Return.
>> “Press any key to begin formatting C:” is displayed. Press any key on the 
>> keyboard. Formatting takes about 1 1/2 minutes.
>> After formatting is complete there is another prompt on the display ““Volume 
>> label (11 characters, Enter for none)?. *“Press “Return”if you don’t want a 
>> label or enter the name and press “Return” if you want to label the volume.
>> When completed “Format another (Y/N)?” appears on the display. Typing “N” 
>> gets you back to entering MS DOS commands. Type “EXIT” to return to P.A.M.
>> Formatting Single-sided
>> TheHPPortable/9114Asystemcanformatdouble-sideddiscsina single-sided format. 
>> This is allowed for data compatability with other 3 1/2-inch disc systems. 
>> There is a utility called “Format.Com”ontheutilitydiscsuppliedwithyourHP 
>> Portable computer.Youmustloadthe“Format.Com”utilityintoyourHP Portable. Use 
>> the following sequence.
>> PlacetheUtilitydiscintoyourHP9114A. TabovertotheDOS Command 
>> blockandpressStartApplic.
>> 
>>  From theMS DOS command displaytype: COPY C: FORMAT.COM A: and press Return
>> This loads the utility and allows you to use the extra parameters 
>> explainedinthefollowingFORMATcommand.
>> TheMS DOS command thatallowsthiscompatibilitywithits parameters isshown next.
>> Format C:/W -Single-sided
>> /X -Double-sided with 256 byte sectors
>> /Y -Double-sided with 512 byte sectors /Z -Double-sided with 1024 byte
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:39, Mike Katz  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thank you for your help.
>>> 
>>> That is the command I am using on the 41 to try and format the disk.  With 
>>> a directory size of 60.
>>> 
>>> On 4/30/2024 4:22 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
 Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive. The NEWM 
 command formats a new disk.
 Link is 
 https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S  wrote:
 
 What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive?
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
 wrote:
 
 On

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

Thank you.  I didn't see any new procedures that I have already tried.

I do not have a problem with the drive or with trying to format a HD 
disk with the HP-41 and therefore I was looking for a few DSDD disks 
instead of DSHD disks.


On 4/30/2024 5:13 PM, Wayne S wrote:
There is also these 2 procedures to try…. From 
https://literature.hpcalc.org/community/hp9114a-ms-en.pdf




TheHP9114Ausesdouble-sideddiscs.Dataiswrittenonboth sides of the disc. 
Thus the normal formatting procedure is double- sided formatting. 
Single-sided formatting is allowed for transferring data from older 
systems. See the next section for single-sided formatting.
Before a flexible disc can be used for the first time, it must be 
formatted. Formatting establishes the directory and volume label as 
wellasverifyingthatthemediaisnotdamaged.Shownnextare two ways to 
format discs. Insert a blank disc into the disc drive.
From the P.A.M. display, pressing the “File Manager” (f2) softkey gets 
you to a “Format” softkey. Press the key labeled ““Format” (f5) and 
answer the next questions.
“Enter the disc to format”. The first disc drive is assigned the 
letter C. Type C: and press return.
“Enter a volume label (optional).” The volume label is the name you 
want to call the disc. This can be up to 11 characters. For example, 
let’s call this disc “First”. Type First and press Return.


 The information is displayed on the first two lines below the 
cursor.PresstheStartFormatkey(f1)ifthesetwolinesarecorrect.
“Formatting Disc. Please wait.” appears on the display. Formatting a 
disc takes about 1 1/2 minutes. The interleave used with this 
formattingmethodis8,theoptimalforHP Portable/9114A operation.
After formatting is complete, pressing the “’Exit Format” (f8) softkey 
returns you to the main File Manager display. To exit File Manager 
press the “Exit File Manager” softkey. This ends the format procedure.
ThesecondmethodofformattingdiscsistousetheMSDOS Format command. From 
the initial P.A.M. display, tabbing over to the area called “DOS 
Commands” and pressing “Return” allows you to use the DOS command 
called Format. The interleave used inthiscommand 
is8whichisoptimalforyourHP Portable/9114A system.

Type FORMAT C: and press Return.
“Press any key to begin formatting C:” is displayed. Press any key on 
the keyboard. Formatting takes about 1 1/2 minutes.
After formatting is complete there is another prompt on the display 
““Volume label (11 characters, Enter for none)?. *“Press “Return”if 
you don’t want a label or enter the name and press “Return” if you 
want to label the volume.
When completed “Format another (Y/N)?” appears on the display. Typing 
“N” gets you back to entering MS DOS commands. Type “EXIT” to return 
to P.A.M.

Formatting Single-sided
TheHPPortable/9114Asystemcanformatdouble-sideddiscsina single-sided 
format. This is allowed for data compatability with other 3 1/2-inch 
disc systems. There is a utility called 
“Format.Com”ontheutilitydiscsuppliedwithyourHP Portable 
computer.Youmustloadthe“Format.Com”utilityintoyourHP Portable. Use the 
following sequence.
PlacetheUtilitydiscintoyourHP9114A. TabovertotheDOS Command 
blockandpressStartApplic.


 From theMS DOS command displaytype: COPY C: FORMAT.COM A: and press 
Return
This loads the utility and allows you to use the extra parameters 
explainedinthefollowingFORMATcommand.
TheMS DOS command thatallowsthiscompatibilitywithits parameters 
isshown next.

Format C:/W -Single-sided
/X -Double-sided with 256 byte sectors
/Y -Double-sided with 512 byte sectors /Z -Double-sided with 1024 byte

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:39, Mike Katz  wrote:

Thank you for your help.

That is the command I am using on the 41 to try and format the disk.  
With a directory size of 60.


On 4/30/2024 4:22 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive. The 
NEWM command formats a new disk.
Link is 
https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78



Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S  wrote:

What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive?

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk 
 wrote:


On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy disk 
hole to
make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format as 
720, you

could specify size or sector count with format.com in dos.

Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps.

I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25 
disks being

formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems in my
limited use.

3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted;
5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted;
a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well;
a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K") sill 
self erase VERY soon, sometimes before you can even get it over to 
another machine.  We had a colle

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Paul Berger via cctalk]

Mike,

You can get new and guaranteed recycled 720K diskettes at floppydisk.com.

As you probably already know the drive in the 9114A is known to have 
issues with lubricants becoming gummy and the mechanism not operating 
properly, one particularly nasty effect is it may result in the upper 
head not retracting when the diskette is ejected and then gets damaged 
or pulled off when the diskette is removed from the drive.


Paul.

On 2024-04-30 5:06 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
Thank you for trying to help.  My situation is unusual at best and I'm 
apologize for the extra bandwidth my question is causing.


I am formatting the floppies in an HP-9114A battery operated floppy 
drive connected to an HP-41 calculator over the HP_IL serial interface.


The HP9114A drive uses a modified Sony 3.5" floppy drive running at 
600 RPM instead of the normal 300 RPM.  This is an extremely unusual 
configuration that is different from any PC/MAC/Commodore/Amiga 
situation.


I have been working with floppies since 1980.  I have written floppy 
low level formatters (WD1771 & WD1791 controllers).  I currently use a 
greaseweasel connected to a pair of 8" drives to create and copy 
floppies for the RX02 on my PDP-8.  I fully understand about density 
and number of tracks, sectors per track, tracks per inch, fm/mfm/gcr 
encoding, etc.


I'm sure if I tried enough 1.44MB floppies I would find a few that 
might work on the HP9114A drive.  However, that was not my question.


I am looking for a dozen or two Double Sided, Double Density 720K 
(formatted capacity) disks to use with this drive.


I appreciate all of the suggestions and help but let's keep the 
bandwidth down and take any floppy compatibility discussions off of 
the group.


Than you again everyone for offering to help,

  Mike

On 4/30/2024 2:41 PM, Wayne S wrote:

What errors are you seeing?


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 12:29, Mike Katz via cctalk 
 wrote:


I have tried bulk erasing 1.44 MB disks and they still won't format 
in the HP9114A battery operated HP-IL Floppy Disk drive.



On 4/30/2024 12:20 PM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:

On 30/04/2024 18:08, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:

Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?
I think it's entirely possible. I'd definitely format them in a 
720kb drive though to be extra safe. Though original 720KB disks 
written/formatted  in 1.44MB drives seem perfectly cromulent from 
my experience.


However don't quote me on it, The only double density drives i have 
are super early Sony ones built in 1982 and they get pampered with 
NOS 720kb media (with the sliders sellotaped open because no auto 
opening shutters on my drives!)


Josh Rice

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Are these the disks you need?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303254321218?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338590836&toolid=10044&customid=bb4f007d293e125433cd664c59b413a4


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 15:22, Just Kant via cctalk  wrote:

Format it more then once. That may afford additional stability.

Try formatting it in a pc. Then switch over to the HP.

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Just Kant via cctalk]

Format it more then once. That may afford additional stability.

Try formatting it in a pc. Then switch over to the HP.

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Wayne S via cctalk]

There is also these 2 procedures to try…. From 
https://literature.hpcalc.org/community/hp9114a-ms-en.pdf



TheHP9114Ausesdouble-sideddiscs.Dataiswrittenonboth sides of the disc. Thus the 
normal formatting procedure is double- sided formatting. Single-sided 
formatting is allowed for transferring data from older systems. See the next 
section for single-sided formatting.
Before a flexible disc can be used for the first time, it must be formatted. 
Formatting establishes the directory and volume label as 
wellasverifyingthatthemediaisnotdamaged.Shownnextare two ways to format discs. 
Insert a blank disc into the disc drive.
From the P.A.M. display, pressing the “File Manager” (f2) softkey gets you to a 
“Format” softkey. Press the key labeled ““Format” (f5) and answer the next 
questions.
“Enter the disc to format”. The first disc drive is assigned the letter C. Type 
C: and press return.
“Enter a volume label (optional).” The volume label is the name you want to 
call the disc. This can be up to 11 characters. For example, let’s call this 
disc “First”. Type First and press Return.

 The information is displayed on the first two lines below the 
cursor.PresstheStartFormatkey(f1)ifthesetwolinesarecorrect.
“Formatting Disc. Please wait.” appears on the display. Formatting a disc takes 
about 1 1/2 minutes. The interleave used with this 
formattingmethodis8,theoptimalforHP Portable/9114A operation.
After formatting is complete, pressing the “’Exit Format” (f8) softkey returns 
you to the main File Manager display. To exit File Manager press the “Exit File 
Manager” softkey. This ends the format procedure.
ThesecondmethodofformattingdiscsistousetheMSDOS Format command. From the 
initial P.A.M. display, tabbing over to the area called “DOS Commands” and 
pressing “Return” allows you to use the DOS command called Format. The 
interleave used inthiscommand is8whichisoptimalforyourHP Portable/9114A system.
Type FORMAT C: and press Return.
“Press any key to begin formatting C:” is displayed. Press any key on the 
keyboard. Formatting takes about 1 1/2 minutes.
After formatting is complete there is another prompt on the display ““Volume 
label (11 characters, Enter for none)?. *“Press “Return”if you don’t want a 
label or enter the name and press “Return” if you want to label the volume.
When completed “Format another (Y/N)?” appears on the display. Typing “N” gets 
you back to entering MS DOS commands. Type “EXIT” to return to P.A.M.
Formatting Single-sided
TheHPPortable/9114Asystemcanformatdouble-sideddiscsina single-sided format. 
This is allowed for data compatability with other 3 1/2-inch disc systems. 
There is a utility called “Format.Com”ontheutilitydiscsuppliedwithyourHP 
Portable computer.Youmustloadthe“Format.Com”utilityintoyourHP Portable. Use the 
following sequence.
PlacetheUtilitydiscintoyourHP9114A. TabovertotheDOS Command 
blockandpressStartApplic.

 From theMS DOS command displaytype: COPY C: FORMAT.COM A: and press Return
This loads the utility and allows you to use the extra parameters 
explainedinthefollowingFORMATcommand.
TheMS DOS command thatallowsthiscompatibilitywithits parameters isshown next.
Format C:/W -Single-sided
/X -Double-sided with 256 byte sectors
/Y -Double-sided with 512 byte sectors /Z -Double-sided with 1024 byte

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:39, Mike Katz  wrote:

Thank you for your help.

That is the command I am using on the 41 to try and format the disk.  With a 
directory size of 60.

On 4/30/2024 4:22 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive. The NEWM command 
formats a new disk.
Link is https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S  wrote:

What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive?

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk  wrote:

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy disk hole to
make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format as 720, you
could specify size or sector count with format.com in dos.

Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps.

I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25 disks being
formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems in my
limited use.

3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted;
5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted;
a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well;
a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K") sill self erase 
VERY soon, sometimes before you can even get it over to another machine.  We 
had a college purchasing agent in bed with "Roytype", who kept giving us "1.2M" 
floppies ofr out TRS80s; they self erased very soon.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

Thank you for your help.

That is the command I am using on the 41 to try and format the disk.  
With a directory size of 60.


On 4/30/2024 4:22 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:

Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive. The NEWM command 
formats a new disk.
Link is https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S  wrote:

What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive?

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk  wrote:

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy disk hole to
make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format as 720, you
could specify size or sector count with format.com in dos.

Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps.

I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25 disks being
formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems in my
limited use.

3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted;
5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted;
a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well;
a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K") sill self erase VERY soon, sometimes 
before you can even get it over to another machine.  We had a college purchasing agent in bed with 
"Roytype", who kept giving us "1.2M" floppies ofr out TRS80s; they self erased very soon.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Also this article refers to a set of commands for this drive. The NEWM command 
formats a new disk.
Link is https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 14:07, Wayne S  wrote:

What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive?

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk  wrote:

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy disk hole to
make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format as 720, you
could specify size or sector count with format.com in dos.

Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps.

I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25 disks being
formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems in my
limited use.

3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted;
5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted;
a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well;
a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K") sill self erase 
VERY soon, sometimes before you can even get it over to another machine.  We 
had a college purchasing agent in bed with "Roytype", who kept giving us "1.2M" 
floppies ofr out TRS80s; they self erased very soon.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Wayne S via cctalk]

What kind of floppies did Hp recommend to use with this drive?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 30, 2024, at 13:55, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
>> Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy disk hole to
>> make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format as 720, you
>> could specify size or sector count with format.com in dos.
> 
> Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps.
> 
>> I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25 disks being
>> formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems in my
>> limited use.
> 
> 3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted;
> 5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted;
> a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well;
> a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K") sill self erase 
> VERY soon, sometimes before you can even get it over to another machine.  We 
> had a college purchasing agent in bed with "Roytype", who kept giving us 
> "1.2M" floppies ofr out TRS80s; they self erased very soon.
> 
> --
> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, John Herron via cctalk wrote:

Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy disk hole to
make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format as 720, you
could specify size or sector count with format.com in dos.


Somemedia sensors are optical; use opaque taps.


I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25 disks being
formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems in my
limited use.


3.5" are 600 VS 750 oersted;
5.25" are 300 vs 600 Oersted;
a low density 5.25 formatted as "high density" won't do well;
a high density 5.25" (1.2M) formatted as low density ("360K") sill self 
erase VERY soon, sometimes before you can even get it over to another 
machine.  We had a college purchasing agent in bed with "Roytype", who 
kept giving us "1.2M" floppies ofr out TRS80s; they self erased very soon.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

Thank you for your help.  This drive is not a normal drive.

Please see my other answers as to why this is the case.

On 4/30/2024 3:49 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

A 720K 3.5" is about 600 Oersted;
a 1.4M 3.5" is about 720-750 Oersted.
You can format a 1.4M as 720K, and often, maybe even usually, get away 
with it; it will be just like a poor quality 720K.

On drives with a media sensor, you can cover the hole during formatting.


On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:


Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?

=]
--
Anders Nelson
www.andersknelson.com


On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 1:00 PM Mike Katz via cctalk 


wrote:


Does anybody have any extra 720K (double sided, double density) 3.5"
Floppy Disks that could use a good home?

If so, please email me directly at bit...@12bitsbest.com.

Thank you,

  Mike

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

A 720K 3.5" is about 600 Oersted;
a 1.4M 3.5" is about 720-750 Oersted.
You can format a 1.4M as 720K, and often, maybe even usually, get away 
with it; it will be just like a poor quality 720K.

On drives with a media sensor, you can cover the hole during formatting.


On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:


Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?

=]
--
Anders Nelson
www.andersknelson.com


On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 1:00 PM Mike Katz via cctalk 
wrote:


Does anybody have any extra 720K (double sided, double density) 3.5"
Floppy Disks that could use a good home?

If so, please email me directly at bit...@12bitsbest.com.

Thank you,

  Mike

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

I could probably spare a few disks, but postage from Canada is outrageous;
let me know if no one else comes up with any.

m

On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 4:07 PM Mike Katz via cctalk 
wrote:

> Thank you for trying to help.  My situation is unusual at best and I'm
> apologize for the extra bandwidth my question is causing.
>
> I am formatting the floppies in an HP-9114A battery operated floppy
> drive connected to an HP-41 calculator over the HP_IL serial interface.
>
> The HP9114A drive uses a modified Sony 3.5" floppy drive running at 600
> RPM instead of the normal 300 RPM.  This is an extremely unusual
> configuration that is different from any PC/MAC/Commodore/Amiga situation.
>
> I have been working with floppies since 1980.  I have written floppy low
> level formatters (WD1771 & WD1791 controllers).  I currently use a
> greaseweasel connected to a pair of 8" drives to create and copy
> floppies for the RX02 on my PDP-8.  I fully understand about density and
> number of tracks, sectors per track, tracks per inch, fm/mfm/gcr
> encoding, etc.
>
> I'm sure if I tried enough 1.44MB floppies I would find a few that might
> work on the HP9114A drive.  However, that was not my question.
>
> I am looking for a dozen or two Double Sided, Double Density 720K
> (formatted capacity) disks to use with this drive.
>
> I appreciate all of the suggestions and help but let's keep the
> bandwidth down and take any floppy compatibility discussions off of the
> group.
>
> Than you again everyone for offering to help,
>
>Mike
>
> On 4/30/2024 2:41 PM, Wayne S wrote:
> > What errors are you seeing?
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Apr 30, 2024, at 12:29, Mike Katz via cctalk 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I have tried bulk erasing 1.44 MB disks and they still won't format in
> the HP9114A battery operated HP-IL Floppy Disk drive.
> >>
> >>> On 4/30/2024 12:20 PM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
>  On 30/04/2024 18:08, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
> 
>  Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
>  possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?
> >>> I think it's entirely possible. I'd definitely format them in a 720kb
> drive though to be extra safe. Though original 720KB disks
> written/formatted  in 1.44MB drives seem perfectly cromulent from my
> experience.
> >>>
> >>> However don't quote me on it, The only double density drives i have
> are super early Sony ones built in 1982 and they get pampered with NOS
> 720kb media (with the sliders sellotaped open because no auto opening
> shutters on my drives!)
> >>>
> >>> Josh Rice
>
>

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

Should work; DD and HD are pretty similar, unlike the 5.25 versions. Did
you cover the density hole?

With what are you using that 9114A drive? And where are you located?

I've got a couple of 9114s; I'll have to try HD disks (if I can find the
drives ;-)

m

On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 3:29 PM Mike Katz via cctalk 
wrote:

> I have tried bulk erasing 1.44 MB disks and they still won't format in
> the HP9114A battery operated HP-IL Floppy Disk drive.
>
> On 4/30/2024 12:20 PM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
> > On 30/04/2024 18:08, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
> >
> >> Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
> >> possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?
> >
> > I think it's entirely possible. I'd definitely format them in a 720kb
> > drive though to be extra safe. Though original 720KB disks
> > written/formatted  in 1.44MB drives seem perfectly cromulent from my
> > experience.
> >
> > However don't quote me on it, The only double density drives i have
> > are super early Sony ones built in 1982 and they get pampered with NOS
> > 720kb media (with the sliders sellotaped open because no auto opening
> > shutters on my drives!)
> >
> > Josh Rice
>
>

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

Thank you for trying to help.  My situation is unusual at best and I'm 
apologize for the extra bandwidth my question is causing.


I am formatting the floppies in an HP-9114A battery operated floppy 
drive connected to an HP-41 calculator over the HP_IL serial interface.


The HP9114A drive uses a modified Sony 3.5" floppy drive running at 600 
RPM instead of the normal 300 RPM.  This is an extremely unusual 
configuration that is different from any PC/MAC/Commodore/Amiga situation.


I have been working with floppies since 1980.  I have written floppy low 
level formatters (WD1771 & WD1791 controllers).  I currently use a 
greaseweasel connected to a pair of 8" drives to create and copy 
floppies for the RX02 on my PDP-8.  I fully understand about density and 
number of tracks, sectors per track, tracks per inch, fm/mfm/gcr 
encoding, etc.


I'm sure if I tried enough 1.44MB floppies I would find a few that might 
work on the HP9114A drive.  However, that was not my question.


I am looking for a dozen or two Double Sided, Double Density 720K 
(formatted capacity) disks to use with this drive.


I appreciate all of the suggestions and help but let's keep the 
bandwidth down and take any floppy compatibility discussions off of the 
group.


Than you again everyone for offering to help,

  Mike

On 4/30/2024 2:41 PM, Wayne S wrote:

What errors are you seeing?


Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 30, 2024, at 12:29, Mike Katz via cctalk  wrote:

I have tried bulk erasing 1.44 MB disks and they still won't format in the 
HP9114A battery operated HP-IL Floppy Disk drive.


On 4/30/2024 12:20 PM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:

On 30/04/2024 18:08, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:

Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?

I think it's entirely possible. I'd definitely format them in a 720kb drive 
though to be extra safe. Though original 720KB disks written/formatted  in 
1.44MB drives seem perfectly cromulent from my experience.

However don't quote me on it, The only double density drives i have are super 
early Sony ones built in 1982 and they get pampered with NOS 720kb media (with 
the sliders sellotaped open because no auto opening shutters on my drives!)

Josh Rice

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Wayne S via cctalk]

What errors are you seeing?


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 30, 2024, at 12:29, Mike Katz via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> I have tried bulk erasing 1.44 MB disks and they still won't format in the 
> HP9114A battery operated HP-IL Floppy Disk drive.
> 
>> On 4/30/2024 12:20 PM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 30/04/2024 18:08, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
>>> 
>>> Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
>>> possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?
>> 
>> I think it's entirely possible. I'd definitely format them in a 720kb drive 
>> though to be extra safe. Though original 720KB disks written/formatted  in 
>> 1.44MB drives seem perfectly cromulent from my experience.
>> 
>> However don't quote me on it, The only double density drives i have are 
>> super early Sony ones built in 1982 and they get pampered with NOS 720kb 
>> media (with the sliders sellotaped open because no auto opening shutters on 
>> my drives!)
>> 
>> Josh Rice
> 

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

I have tried bulk erasing 1.44 MB disks and they still won't format in 
the HP9114A battery operated HP-IL Floppy Disk drive.


On 4/30/2024 12:20 PM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:

On 30/04/2024 18:08, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:


Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?


I think it's entirely possible. I'd definitely format them in a 720kb 
drive though to be extra safe. Though original 720KB disks 
written/formatted  in 1.44MB drives seem perfectly cromulent from my 
experience.


However don't quote me on it, The only double density drives i have 
are super early Sony ones built in 1982 and they get pampered with NOS 
720kb media (with the sliders sellotaped open because no auto opening 
shutters on my drives!)


Josh Rice

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Ha! You mean using the transformer's magnetic field to bamboozle the media?

--
Anders Nelson
www.andersknelson.com


On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 1:48 PM John Robertson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 2024/04/30 10:08 a.m., Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
> > Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
> > possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?
> >
> > =]
> > --
> > Anders Nelson
> > www.andersknelson.com
>
> As I recall you had to bulk erase the old diskette and then you could
> format it as 720 - covering the 1.44 hole of course.
>
> Not bulk erasing (the side of a Weller soldering gun works just fine)
> led to erratic results. We all have Weller guns for fixing computers, eh?
>
> John :-#)#
>
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 1:00 PM Mike Katz via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Does anybody have any extra 720K (double sided, double density) 3.5"
> >> Floppy Disks that could use a good home?
> >>
> >> If so, please email me directly at bit...@12bitsbest.com.
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
>
> --
>   John's Jukes Ltd.
> 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
> Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
>   flippers.com
>   "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
>
>

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

Bulk Erasing is the first thing I tried

On 4/30/2024 12:48 PM, John Robertson via cctalk wrote:

On 2024/04/30 10:08 a.m., Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:

Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?

=]
--
Anders Nelson
www.andersknelson.com


As I recall you had to bulk erase the old diskette and then you could 
format it as 720 - covering the 1.44 hole of course.


Not bulk erasing (the side of a Weller soldering gun works just fine) 
led to erratic results. We all have Weller guns for fixing computers, eh?


John :-#)#




On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 1:00 PM Mike Katz via cctalk 


wrote:


Does anybody have any extra 720K (double sided, double density) 3.5"
Floppy Disks that could use a good home?

If so, please email me directly at bit...@12bitsbest.com.

Thank you,

   Mike

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

No, this is for use in an HJP9114A HP-IL Floppy Drive.


On 4/30/2024 12:08 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:

Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?

=]
--
Anders Nelson
www.andersknelson.com


On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 1:00 PM Mike Katz via cctalk 
wrote:


Does anybody have any extra 720K (double sided, double density) 3.5"
Floppy Disks that could use a good home?

If so, please email me directly at bit...@12bitsbest.com.

Thank you,

   Mike

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[John Herron via cctalk]

On Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 12:48 PM John Robertson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 2024/04/30 10:08 a.m., Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
> > is it
> > possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk
>

(Snip)

>  you could
> format it as 720 - covering the 1.44 hole
>

>

Yup, that's all I used to do. Some scotch tape over the floppy disk hole to
make the system see it as DD. If it didn't automatically format as 720, you
could specify size or sector count with format.com in dos.

I did hear folks say it wasn't always reliable (similar to 5.25 disks being
formated on a high density drive) but I never saw any problems in my
limited use.

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[John Robertson via cctalk]

On 2024/04/30 10:08 a.m., Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:

Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?

=]
--
Anders Nelson
www.andersknelson.com


As I recall you had to bulk erase the old diskette and then you could 
format it as 720 - covering the 1.44 hole of course.


Not bulk erasing (the side of a Weller soldering gun works just fine) 
led to erratic results. We all have Weller guns for fixing computers, eh?


John :-#)#




On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 1:00 PM Mike Katz via cctalk 
wrote:


Does anybody have any extra 720K (double sided, double density) 3.5"
Floppy Disks that could use a good home?

If so, please email me directly at bit...@12bitsbest.com.

Thank you,

   Mike



--
 John's Jukes Ltd.
7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
 flippers.com
 "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Joshua Rice via cctalk]

On 30/04/2024 18:08, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:


Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?


I think it's entirely possible. I'd definitely format them in a 720kb 
drive though to be extra safe. Though original 720KB disks 
written/formatted  in 1.44MB drives seem perfectly cromulent from my 
experience.


However don't quote me on it, The only double density drives i have are 
super early Sony ones built in 1982 and they get pampered with NOS 720kb 
media (with the sliders sellotaped open because no auto opening shutters 
on my drives!)


Josh Rice

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Having grown up with 1.44MB 3.5" floppies, I have a question: is it
possible to use a 1.44MB disk and just format it as a 720K disk?

=]
--
Anders Nelson
www.andersknelson.com


On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 1:00 PM Mike Katz via cctalk 
wrote:

> Does anybody have any extra 720K (double sided, double density) 3.5"
> Floppy Disks that could use a good home?
>
> If so, please email me directly at bit...@12bitsbest.com.
>
> Thank you,
>
>   Mike
>