Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Jay Jaeger via cctalk]

On 9/5/2021 8:12 AM, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:

On Sat, Sep 04, 2021 at 09:34:30AM -0400, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:

On 2021-09-04 08:30, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:

"Digital Diggings" couldn't get BlueSCSI to work on either VAX or Alpha:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFEh7owqHxU&t=36s. That's a pity as it's
much cheaper than SCSI2SD.


Apparently not so much cheaper any more, since it's based on the dirt-cheap
"Bluepill" SBC which has basically vanished off the market, at least on this
side of the Pond. They seemed to be mainly distributed via AZ-Delivery in
Germany, who are out of stock. I guess they're waiting for the same boat
from China that everybody else is.



There is work going on BlueSCSI for the "Black Pill", using the F4 
variant of the STM32, which hopefully will be more available once the 
current semi crunch subsides (but that might take 6-12 months).


The current implementation for the "Black Pill" is, however NOT OPEN 
SOURCE at this point in time, though I have heard that there will be an 
F4 variant that will be open source in the future.


JRJ

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Peter Corlett via cctalk]

On Sat, Sep 04, 2021 at 09:34:30AM -0400, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:
> On 2021-09-04 08:30, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:
>> "Digital Diggings" couldn't get BlueSCSI to work on either VAX or Alpha:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFEh7owqHxU&t=36s. That's a pity as it's
>> much cheaper than SCSI2SD.

Apparently not so much cheaper any more, since it's based on the dirt-cheap
"Bluepill" SBC which has basically vanished off the market, at least on this
side of the Pond. They seemed to be mainly distributed via AZ-Delivery in
Germany, who are out of stock. I guess they're waiting for the same boat
from China that everybody else is.

The UK-based vendor of the BlueSCSI has had to hike the price to cover the
cost of getting hold of the remaining stock of Bluepills, which must be even
trickier than if they were here in the EU where I also can't just click a
"buy again" button and have a load fall through the letterbox next-day.

The only reason to have ever cared about the Bluepill was that it was so
cheap that one could gloss over its major design flaws which made it
unsuitable for a lot of projects. Now we have the Raspberry Pi Pico which is
also still rather cheap, can actually be bought, and is much more powerful
and much less buggy, the Bluepill is fairly moot.

> OK guys, but please compare that to costs for SCSI drives (please 6 of
> them, as you have partitions on the SDCARD), cost of SCSI controllers
> (QBUS/UNIBUS anyone?), or even IDE drives. So this is whining on a pretty
> high level, and there is no noise, so you can keep your machines working.
> (and *** very easy backup too) So, yes, there probably could be cheaper,
> but the guy spent a lot of time making it working.

It certainly looks like a more robust product than the BlueSCSI (not least
because it's not Bluepill-based), but it appears to only ship from Canada,
Australia, or the UK. The Australian distributor only takes PayPal so that's
an immediate hard no. The others seem to think that postage charges are a
trade secret which will only be revealed after committing to the sale, but
they do at least admit that they just throw it into the regular postal
sevice and hope for the best. So that's €30-50 for postage, at least a
month's wait if it arrives at all, plus a random courier surcharge due to
the sender inevitably screwing up the customs and VAT paperwork (assuming
they even bothered). Sod that, I'll make do without.

Breaking news for American businesses looking to sell into Europe: the UK
has left the EU, British exports have cratered due to red tape, its haulage
networks have all but collapsed, and a civil war is brewing which will
probably end in a break-up of the Union. You might want to pick a
distributor somewhere saner.

The people selling both the BlueSCSI and SCSI2SD do need to understand that
designing and building a product is only part of the job. If the ordering
process is broken, and fulfilment is slow, expensive, and stressful, this
drives away customers no matter how great the product is. If they just want
to make a bit on the side to fund their hobby, that's just fine, but perhaps
don't play-act at being a manufacturing business with global distribution.

I note that the guidance I get from the Dutch tax authorities points out in
that matter-of-fact Dutch way that they can tell the difference between a
genuine business and a hobby hoping for a tax break.

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 9/4/21 8:02 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote:

Also, I see that version 1.0c of the open source  Blue Pill version has a fix that involves TERMPOWER: "Fixed issue with external power and 
TERMPOWER".


there is also a development discord for these little scsi adapters
https://discord.gg/kx2Kybx2mk

I was on it for a while, but it was too chatty for me to follow

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Sep 4, 2021, at 6:34 AM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 2021-09-04 08:30, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> "Digital Diggings" couldn't get BlueSCSI to work on either VAX or Alpha:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFEh7owqHxU&t=36s.
>> That's a pity as it's much cheaper than SCSI2SD.
> 
> OK guys, but please compare that to costs for SCSI drives (please 6 of
> them, as you have partitions on the SDCARD), cost of SCSI controllers
> (QBUS/UNIBUS anyone?), or even IDE drives.
> 
> So this is whining on a pretty high level, and there is no noise, so you
> can keep your machines working. (and *** very easy backup too)
> 
> So, yes, there probably could be cheaper, but the guy spent a lot of
> time making it working.
> 
> In my opinion, it is worth every penny.
> 
> Cheers

I agree, it’s worth it.  I ended up buying 6 of them while on my Sabbatical, 
earlier this year, though I only had time to install two of them.  It means 
that my VAXstation 4000/VLC which was too noisy to use in the house is usable, 
and my VAXstation 4000/90 is almost silent.  I put one SCSI2SD in both of 
those.  I plan to put 2 in my DECnet Area router (a VAXstation 4000/60), and 2 
in one of my AlphaStations (probably an AlphaStation 200 4/233, since it only 
has Narrow SCSI).  

With the Area router, it will be replacing the disks in a BA350 shelf in my 
main rack, and just one board will offer a lot more space than the 2GB and 4GB 
drives I’m using.

I wish there was a U2W SCSI option for my Compaq XP1000/667 AlphaStation.  
There is a definite need for a replacement for faster drives, and systems that 
need a drive with an SCA interface (I’d also love one for my SGI O2’s).

Eventually I want to get it so I can run a BA23 or BA123 with a PDP-11, and a 
SCSI2SD board.  My main PDP-11/73 is a BA123 with removable SCSI HD’s (using 
the old PC trays from the late 90’s), and that lets me run all the OS’s I have 
installed.  A SCSI2SD would be a cleaner solution.

Is there any good solution for backing up an SD card from a SCSI2SD board?  I 
like how my emulated systems are backed up nightly as part of the backups setup 
for my VMware cluster.

Really I’m a huge fan of replacing floppies or HD’s with SD cards.  I did that 
YEARS ago with my C-64, and last year with my Amiga HW.  I look at it this way, 
what’s one of the key points of failure, disks.  This is especially true on 
floppy based systems.  For HD’s, it doesn’t even matter the age of the system.  
That’s why we have backups.

Zane

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Jay Jaeger via cctalk]

On 9/4/2021 5:44 AM, Adrian Graham wrote:



On 4 Sep 2021, at 02:42, Jay Jaeger via cctalk > wrote:


On 7/14/2021 12:32 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:
VT100 to the rescue, the VLC is fine talking to it so now I'm 
wondering why
my old faithful hardware UART in this PC I'm typing on now has let me 
down.
The BlueSCSI appears as 7 devices though, which is usually a 
termination or

ID problem so I now need to dig out an external terminator for the box
since it's never had one. The hard drive in there has been good at
providing its own TERMPWR which the BlueSCSI should too but I'll play by
the rules to test things properly.
Cheers,


I think BlueSCSI will only appear as the devices you have image files 
named for on its SD card.


What I meant was on a SHO DEV I got 7 Quantum Fireballs (DKA0-500, 
DKA700), in my VAX days this meant there was either an ID conflict with 
another device on the bus or a termination issue. I only had one image 
on the sdcard which was ID0 so there weren’t any other devices present, 
so it had to be a termination issue.




Or a bug.

I don't think that these boards will *provide* terminator power, but I 
haven't looked at the schematics carefully.  If the VAX does provide 
terminator power, it might not be enough to both do that and power the 
blue pill.  I power mine from the 4 pin molex drive power connector by 
using a 4 pin molex to Berg connector adapter to match the connector on 
the one on the BlueSCSI board.


BTW, a caveat:  There is a "Black Pill" version from Tech By Androda out 
there.  The blue.scsi site that points to it indicates that BlueSCSI is 
open source (which it is), but THAT one, the one I bought from Tech By 
Androda IS NOT OPEN SOURCE.  He won't provide the code.  Not even 
binaries on his web site.  (There IS a warning about that on the page 
for the Black Pill (F4) version.)


Also, I see that version 1.0c of the open source  Blue Pill version has 
a fix that involves TERMPOWER: "Fixed issue with external power and 
TERMPOWER".


JRJ

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2021-09-04 08:30, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:

> "Digital Diggings" couldn't get BlueSCSI to work on either VAX or Alpha:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFEh7owqHxU&t=36s.
> That's a pity as it's much cheaper than SCSI2SD.

OK guys, but please compare that to costs for SCSI drives (please 6 of
them, as you have partitions on the SDCARD), cost of SCSI controllers
(QBUS/UNIBUS anyone?), or even IDE drives.

So this is whining on a pretty high level, and there is no noise, so you
can keep your machines working. (and *** very easy backup too)

So, yes, there probably could be cheaper, but the guy spent a lot of
time making it working.

In my opinion, it is worth every penny.

Cheers

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Antonio Carlini via cctalk]

On 04/09/2021 02:42, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote:

On 7/14/2021 12:32 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:
VT100 to the rescue, the VLC is fine talking to it so now I'm 
wondering why
my old faithful hardware UART in this PC I'm typing on now has let me 
down.


The BlueSCSI appears as 7 devices though, which is usually a 
termination or

ID problem so I now need to dig out an external terminator for the box
since it's never had one. The hard drive in there has been good at
providing its own TERMPWR which the BlueSCSI should too but I'll play by
the rules to test things properly.

Cheers,



I think BlueSCSI will only appear as the devices you have image files 
named for on its SD card.


JRJ


"Digital Diggings" couldn't get BlueSCSI to work on either VAX or Alpha: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFEh7owqHxU&t=36s.



That's a pity as it's much cheaper than SCSI2SD.


Antonio


--
Antonio Carlini
anto...@acarlini.com

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

> On 4 Sep 2021, at 02:42, Jay Jaeger via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> On 7/14/2021 12:32 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:
>> VT100 to the rescue, the VLC is fine talking to it so now I'm wondering why
>> my old faithful hardware UART in this PC I'm typing on now has let me down.
>> The BlueSCSI appears as 7 devices though, which is usually a termination or
>> ID problem so I now need to dig out an external terminator for the box
>> since it's never had one. The hard drive in there has been good at
>> providing its own TERMPWR which the BlueSCSI should too but I'll play by
>> the rules to test things properly.
>> Cheers,
> 
> I think BlueSCSI will only appear as the devices you have image files named 
> for on its SD card.


What I meant was on a SHO DEV I got 7 Quantum Fireballs (DKA0-500, DKA700), in 
my VAX days this meant there was either an ID conflict with another device on 
the bus or a termination issue. I only had one image on the sdcard which was 
ID0 so there weren’t any other devices present, so it had to be a termination 
issue.

-- 
Adrian Graham
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer collection?
t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Jay Jaeger via cctalk]

On 7/14/2021 12:32 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:

VT100 to the rescue, the VLC is fine talking to it so now I'm wondering why
my old faithful hardware UART in this PC I'm typing on now has let me down.

The BlueSCSI appears as 7 devices though, which is usually a termination or
ID problem so I now need to dig out an external terminator for the box
since it's never had one. The hard drive in there has been good at
providing its own TERMPWR which the BlueSCSI should too but I'll play by
the rules to test things properly.

Cheers,



I think BlueSCSI will only appear as the devices you have image files 
named for on its SD card.


JRJ

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2021-07-13 15:39, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:

> When I did all my testing about a month and a half ago, I used a VT320.  I’m 
> not sure if I’ve ever tried to talk to a VAXstation with anything other than 
> a DEC terminal.

I don't have any problems with USB-Serial adapters, on most DEC
equipment. I have most VT***, but not always like to move them.
So a laptop is easier.

Just don't forget to switch of HW handshake on the USB side, and get
XON/XOFF ...

yes, sometimes one has tp play with 7/8 bits, parities etc., but it
usually works ...

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Greg Stark via cctalk]

On Tue., Jul. 13, 2021, 15:39 Zane Healy via cctalk, 
wrote:

>
> When I did all my testing about a month and a half ago, I used a VT320.
> I’m not sure if I’ve ever tried to talk to a VAXstation with anything other
> than a DEC terminal.
>

I had the serial console on a model 60 working connected to a Sparc 5 but
never got it to work with any PC USB adapters of any sort.

>

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

Sent from my iPod

> On Jul 15, 2021, at 12:03 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> It would be nice to know if Bluepill works on the VS4000 range: I wonder if 
> my VS4000-90 would then become silent enough to run more often!

My VAXstation 4000-90 is very quiet with a SCSI2SD board.  I don’t really 
notice it running in my office.

Zane 

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

> On 15 Jul 2021, at 08:03, Antonio Carlini via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> It would be nice to know if Bluepill works on the VS4000 range: I wonder if 
> my VS4000-90 would then become silent enough to run more often!


So far it’s detected as  a Quantum Fireball but also is detected 8 times. I 
notice the chipset in the VLC is NCR and there are known issues with the NCR 
chipset in a Mac SE so I’ve poked a message out on the blueSCSI discord server 
to see if anyone has any ideas. One of the contributors worked on the SCSI2SD 
for VAX so he may be of help.


-- 
Adrian Graham
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer collection?
t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

> On 15 Jul 2021, at 03:42, Doc Shipley via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 7/13/21 14:30, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> Powering up with nothing attached apart from an MMJ/H8571 cable I get
>> nothing on the console, I'm using PuTTY via a genuine COM1 port on a PC
>> which is one level above what I used last time I powered the machine up
>> (FTDI USB adapter to a laptop). Diagnostic LEDs cycle through the tests and
>> end up at ' 0011' which according to the manual is 'entering the
>> console program'.
>> Clearly the DALLAS has passed the TOY tests, but if it's not happy would
>> that stop the console displaying? It doesn't matter how I set S3, next step
>> I guess is to hook it up to a 'proper' VT.
> 
> 
>  Adrian, I'm having exactly that problem with my VLC.  I put a Real VT420 on 
> it and still get no output. With a known-good/compatible monitor and keyboard 
> on it, same thing.
> 
>  If there's a solution to this, I'd love to know.

All I did with the VT was connect up with the usual H8575-A MMJ-DB25 adapter, 
set S3 to up and switch on. Presumably your LEDs are going through the right 
sequence and end up at  0011? 

-- 
Adrian Graham
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer collection?
t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Antonio Carlini via cctalk]

On 14/07/2021 18:32, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:

VT100 to the rescue, the VLC is fine talking to it so now I'm wondering why
my old faithful hardware UART in this PC I'm typing on now has let me down.


Given the possible issues (dead VLC line drivers, iffy cable, iffy PC 
UART) you've probably bee lucky (although maybe DECconnect cables aren't 
too tricky to make up these days).



Funnily enough I have a very similar issue on my MicroVAX 3600: the CPU 
bulkhead LED cycles through the right stuff but nothing appears on the 
VT420. Take the lead out of the uV3600 and plug it in to the VS400-60 
and it's fine. The leaky battery on the console bulkhead probably didn't 
help :-( At least you don't have *that* issue on the VLC!



It would be nice to know if Bluepill works on the VS4000 range: I wonder 
if my VS4000-90 would then become silent enough to run more often!



Antonio



--
Antonio Carlini
anto...@acarlini.com

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Doc Shipley via cctalk]

On 7/13/21 14:30, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:

Hi folks,

Powering up with nothing attached apart from an MMJ/H8571 cable I get
nothing on the console, I'm using PuTTY via a genuine COM1 port on a PC
which is one level above what I used last time I powered the machine up
(FTDI USB adapter to a laptop). Diagnostic LEDs cycle through the tests and
end up at ' 0011' which according to the manual is 'entering the
console program'.

Clearly the DALLAS has passed the TOY tests, but if it's not happy would
that stop the console displaying? It doesn't matter how I set S3, next step
I guess is to hook it up to a 'proper' VT.



  Adrian, I'm having exactly that problem with my VLC.  I put a Real 
VT420 on it and still get no output. With a known-good/compatible 
monitor and keyboard on it, same thing.


  If there's a solution to this, I'd love to know.


Doc

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

VT100 to the rescue, the VLC is fine talking to it so now I'm wondering why
my old faithful hardware UART in this PC I'm typing on now has let me down.

The BlueSCSI appears as 7 devices though, which is usually a termination or
ID problem so I now need to dig out an external terminator for the box
since it's never had one. The hard drive in there has been good at
providing its own TERMPWR which the BlueSCSI should too but I'll play by
the rules to test things properly.

Cheers,

-- 
Adrian Graham
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk


On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 at 08:32, Adrian Graham 
wrote:

>
>
> On 13 Jul 2021, at 23:20, Antonio Carlini via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> On 13/07/2021 22:34, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:
>
> On 7/13/2021 3:30 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Powering up with nothing attached apart from an MMJ/H8571 cable I get
> nothing on the console, I'm using PuTTY via a genuine COM1 port on a PC
> which is one level above what I used last time I powered the machine up
> (FTDI USB adapter to a laptop). Diagnostic LEDs cycle through the tests and
> end up at ' 0011' which according to the manual is 'entering the
> console program'.
>
> There are 2 ways to have a console on the VAX4000/VLC.  A switch on the
> back selects either; (1) graphics console mode, or (2) terminal attached to
> the serial port.  It sounds like you have the switch set to graphics
> console mode, in that case you get nothing from the serial port.
>
> I can't remember where the switch is on the back, bitsavers or someone who
> remembers can help.
>
> Doug
>
> If you look from the front it's on the right hand side and marked "S3",
> between the grey reset switch and the keyboard connector. I think that S3
> needs to be UP otherwise it would expect a monitor and keyboard to be
> attached.
>
> The MMJ connector is on the back (but obviously Adrian has found that ...
> or he's pushed really, really hard into either the keyboard connector or
> the phone connector :-))
>
>
> Bear in mind I’m an old DEC head and have been since the early 80s ;)
> Though I HAVE seen customers get RJ11 cables jammed in MMJ ports before,
> because ’they look alike’.
>
> Both of you missed my sentence where I said ‘It doesn’t matter what
> position I have S3 in’, and IIRC even with S3 set to graphics you would
> still get a dead sergeant on a VT once init had completed, you just
> wouldn’t see POST.
>
> Anyway, I’ll hook up a VT today at some point and see if anything happens.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Adrian Graham
> Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer
> collection?
> t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
> w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

> On 13 Jul 2021, at 23:20, Antonio Carlini via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 13/07/2021 22:34, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:
>> On 7/13/2021 3:30 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> Powering up with nothing attached apart from an MMJ/H8571 cable I get
>>> nothing on the console, I'm using PuTTY via a genuine COM1 port on a PC
>>> which is one level above what I used last time I powered the machine up
>>> (FTDI USB adapter to a laptop). Diagnostic LEDs cycle through the tests and
>>> end up at ' 0011' which according to the manual is 'entering the
>>> console program'.
>>> 
>> There are 2 ways to have a console on the VAX4000/VLC.  A switch on the back 
>> selects either; (1) graphics console mode, or (2) terminal attached to the 
>> serial port.  It sounds like you have the switch set to graphics console 
>> mode, in that case you get nothing from the serial port.
>> 
>> I can't remember where the switch is on the back, bitsavers or someone who 
>> remembers can help.
>> 
>> Doug
>> 
> If you look from the front it's on the right hand side and marked "S3", 
> between the grey reset switch and the keyboard connector. I think that S3 
> needs to be UP otherwise it would expect a monitor and keyboard to be 
> attached.
> 
> The MMJ connector is on the back (but obviously Adrian has found that ... or 
> he's pushed really, really hard into either the keyboard connector or the 
> phone connector :-))

Bear in mind I’m an old DEC head and have been since the early 80s ;) Though I 
HAVE seen customers get RJ11 cables jammed in MMJ ports before, because ’they 
look alike’.

Both of you missed my sentence where I said ‘It doesn’t matter what position I 
have S3 in’, and IIRC even with S3 set to graphics you would still get a dead 
sergeant on a VT once init had completed, you just wouldn’t see POST. 

Anyway, I’ll hook up a VT today at some point and see if anything happens.

Cheers

-- 
Adrian Graham
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer collection?
t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Carlos E Murillo-Sanchez via cctalk]

Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:

Hi folks,

I'm testing a little BlueSCSI adapter (BlueSCSI ) which
while being aimed at 68K Macs should also work as an 8 bit target for older
VAXen, it's a newer cheaper SCSI2SD solution and I should point out it
works as intended on a Mac Plus so the module itself is fine.
If my understanding of the BlueSCSI and SCSI2SD emulators is right, one 
big difference is that
only SCSI2SD v. 6.0 supports synchronous transfers; all others do not.  
I don't know if a

4000/VLC needs that feature or not.

Nobody appears to have tested on small VAXen yet so tonight I dug out my
VLC to give it a go.

Powering up with nothing attached apart from an MMJ/H8571 cable I get
nothing on the console, I'm using PuTTY via a genuine COM1 port on a PC
which is one level above what I used last time I powered the machine up
(FTDI USB adapter to a laptop). Diagnostic LEDs cycle through the tests and
end up at ' 0011' which according to the manual is 'entering the
console program'.

Clearly the DALLAS has passed the TOY tests, but if it's not happy would
that stop the console displaying? It doesn't matter how I set S3, next step
I guess is to hook it up to a 'proper' VT.
IIRC, in my 4000/60, the MMJ console port is actually RS-422, which 
would require a proper
adapter for it to work with a 232 terminal; is that what the H8571 
does?  I use mine with a vt320.


Carlos.

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Antonio Carlini via cctalk]

On 13/07/2021 22:34, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:

On 7/13/2021 3:30 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:

Hi folks,

Powering up with nothing attached apart from an MMJ/H8571 cable I get
nothing on the console, I'm using PuTTY via a genuine COM1 port on a PC
which is one level above what I used last time I powered the machine up
(FTDI USB adapter to a laptop). Diagnostic LEDs cycle through the 
tests and

end up at ' 0011' which according to the manual is 'entering the
console program'.

There are 2 ways to have a console on the VAX4000/VLC.  A switch on 
the back selects either; (1) graphics console mode, or (2) terminal 
attached to the serial port.  It sounds like you have the switch set 
to graphics console mode, in that case you get nothing from the serial 
port.


I can't remember where the switch is on the back, bitsavers or someone 
who remembers can help.


Doug

If you look from the front it's on the right hand side and marked "S3", 
between the grey reset switch and the keyboard connector. I think that 
S3 needs to be UP otherwise it would expect a monitor and keyboard to be 
attached.


The MMJ connector is on the back (but obviously Adrian has found that 
... or he's pushed really, really hard into either the keyboard 
connector or the phone connector :-))



Antonio

--
Antonio Carlini
anto...@acarlini.com

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Douglas Taylor via cctalk]

On 7/13/2021 3:30 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:

Hi folks,

I'm testing a little BlueSCSI adapter (BlueSCSI ) which
while being aimed at 68K Macs should also work as an 8 bit target for older
VAXen, it's a newer cheaper SCSI2SD solution and I should point out it
works as intended on a Mac Plus so the module itself is fine.

Nobody appears to have tested on small VAXen yet so tonight I dug out my
VLC to give it a go.

Powering up with nothing attached apart from an MMJ/H8571 cable I get
nothing on the console, I'm using PuTTY via a genuine COM1 port on a PC
which is one level above what I used last time I powered the machine up
(FTDI USB adapter to a laptop). Diagnostic LEDs cycle through the tests and
end up at ' 0011' which according to the manual is 'entering the
console program'.

Clearly the DALLAS has passed the TOY tests, but if it's not happy would
that stop the console displaying? It doesn't matter how I set S3, next step
I guess is to hook it up to a 'proper' VT.

Cheers,

There are 2 ways to have a console on the VAX4000/VLC.  A switch on the 
back selects either; (1) graphics console mode, or (2) terminal attached 
to the serial port.  It sounds like you have the switch set to graphics 
console mode, in that case you get nothing from the serial port.


I can't remember where the switch is on the back, bitsavers or someone 
who remembers can help.


Doug

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Antonio Carlini via cctalk]

On 13/07/2021 20:30, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:

Clearly the DALLAS has passed the TOY tests, but if it's not happy would
that stop the console displaying? It doesn't matter how I set S3, next step
I guess is to hook it up to a 'proper' VT.

My VS4000-60 has a DALLAS chip that is either dead or not working very 
well: it will not remember settings at all. It boots fine using a VT420 
and it also boots fine with a monitor/keyboard connected.


Do you get *any* output on the console at all?

The easiest thing to try would be a known good VT terminal, then you 
don't have to worry about the H8571-? being the correct "-?" for your 
config (ISTR that there are a number of variants, each subtly different).



Antonio



--
Antonio Carlini
anto...@acarlini.com

Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

As far as I can tell, the VLC and Model 60 will boot with a dead DALLAS chip, 
the Model 90 *WILL NOT* (it hangs on the tests).  Having said that, I think you 
need to leave the VLC plugged in for a bit.  It took 2-3 tries to get things 
going.

When I did all my testing about a month and a half ago, I used a VT320.  I’m 
not sure if I’ve ever tried to talk to a VAXstation with anything other than a 
DEC terminal.

I swapped out my VLC and Model 90 SCSI drives with SCSI2SD boards, I still need 
to do that with one Model 60, and one AlphaStation.

Zane




> On Jul 13, 2021, at 12:30 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I'm testing a little BlueSCSI adapter (BlueSCSI ) which
> while being aimed at 68K Macs should also work as an 8 bit target for older
> VAXen, it's a newer cheaper SCSI2SD solution and I should point out it
> works as intended on a Mac Plus so the module itself is fine.
> 
> Nobody appears to have tested on small VAXen yet so tonight I dug out my
> VLC to give it a go.
> 
> Powering up with nothing attached apart from an MMJ/H8571 cable I get
> nothing on the console, I'm using PuTTY via a genuine COM1 port on a PC
> which is one level above what I used last time I powered the machine up
> (FTDI USB adapter to a laptop). Diagnostic LEDs cycle through the tests and
> end up at ' 0011' which according to the manual is 'entering the
> console program'.
> 
> Clearly the DALLAS has passed the TOY tests, but if it's not happy would
> that stop the console displaying? It doesn't matter how I set S3, next step
> I guess is to hook it up to a 'proper' VT.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -- 
> Adrian Graham
> Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer
> collection?
> t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
> w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk