Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add generated manpages

[Jon Trulson]

On 1/26/20 12:39 PM, Matthew R. Trower wrote:
> Chase mentioned build times.  I understand that it would be desirable
> to update and clean up the toolchain.
>

Well, actually generating them is pretty quick.  But all the crap we can
delete by pre-generating them is not to be ignored either.  At any rate,
I am not going to apply this at this time.  I want the other
autotools-conversion stuff functional before making large scale changes
like this to it anyway.  And even then, it will need to be actually
tested to ensure the current man syntax works on *all* the platforms.

-jon

> -mrt
>
> *From:* j...@radscan.com
> *Sent:* January 26, 2020 1:36 PM
> *To:* d...@blackshard.net
> *Cc:* cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> *Subject:* Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add
> generated manpages
>
>
> On 1/26/20 12:34 PM, Matthew R. Trower wrote:
>> Well, if building manpages is truly a considerable slowdown, I guess
>> I wouldn't be opposed to optionally forgoing compilation in favor of
>> pre-generated files.  But the idea of only having pre-generated
>> pages, and losing the ability to build from source, does not sit well
>> with me.
>>
>
> Well, it's not a question of 'slowdown', it's a question of archaic BS
> being used to build them.  Simplifies maintenance.
>
>> Also, are you going to pre-generate for all platforms?  Various
>> platforms have various incompatible syntax for man.
>
> That's another issue - they have not been tested at all from what I
> can see.  So, I have no idea if they will work on any platforms.
>
> -jon
>
>> -mrt
>>
>> *From:* j...@radscan.com
>> *Sent:* January 26, 2020 1:26 PM
>> *To:* nicetry...@protonmail.ch
>> *Cc:* cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add
>> generated manpages
>>
>>
>> Well, a couple of things...
>>
>> 1) how did you test them?  They should also perhaps be checked in a
>> UTF locale - or converted to UTF-8...
>>
>> 2) While I proposed pre-generating manpages, and the help text
>> previously, I got pushback from people. TBH, I am fine with
>> pre-generating the man pages.  They only exist in the C/en locale anyway.
>>
>> 3) What are other peoples opinions on this patchset?
>>
>> -jon
>>
>> On 1/26/20 12:07 PM, Chase wrote:
>>> Yes, trying to get these to generate under autotools is a mess, we
>>> are going to throw out the docbook sgm files, docbooktoman and the
>>> rest and just add the post generation manpages so we can just
>>> install them via dist_man1_MANS = something.1, it will speed up
>>> build times and make life easier
>>>
>>> Thank you for your time,
>>> -Chase
>>>
>>>
>>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>> On Sunday, January 26, 2020 1:00 PM, Jon Trulson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/20/20 11:39 AM, Chase via cdesktopenv-devel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> these patches will make installing the manpages much easier via
>>>>> autotools, as we can just use man1= manpage.1 rather than the
>>>>> whole generated script mess I was working on earlier
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can you explain this in more detail?  These patches would seem to
>>>> prevent the generation of manpages from the underlying docbook
>>>> sources...?
>>>>
>>>> Currently the autotools branch does not even attempt to build
>>>> anything in doc/ yet, so these could not have been actually tested
>>>> yet either...?
>>>>
>>>> -jon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your time,
>>>>> -Chase
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
>>>>> cdesktopenv-devel mailing list
>>>>> cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
>>>>> <mailto:cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jon Trulson
>>>>
>>>>   "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
>>>>-- Sheldon
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Jon Trulson
>>
>>   "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
>>-- Sheldon
>
> -- 
> Jon Trulson
>
>   "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
>-- Sheldon

-- 
Jon Trulson

  "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
   -- Sheldon

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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add generated manpages

[Matthew R. Trower]

  Chase mentioned build times.  I understand that it would be desirable to update and clean up the toolchain. -mrt   From: j...@radscan.comSent: January 26, 2020 1:36 PMTo: d...@blackshard.netCc: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.netSubject: Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add generated manpages  
On 1/26/20 12:34 PM, Matthew R. Trower wrote:

  
  
  
 Well, if building manpages is truly a
  considerable slowdown, I guess I wouldn't be opposed to
  optionally forgoing compilation in favor of pre-generated
  files.  But the idea of only having pre-generated pages, and
  losing the ability to build from source, does not sit well
  with me.


  


Well, it's not a question of 'slowdown', it's a question of archaic
BS being used to build them.  Simplifies maintenance.


  
Also, are you going to pre-generate for
  all platforms?  Various platforms have various incompatible
  syntax for man.
  


That's another issue - they have not been tested at all from what I
can see.  So, I have no idea if they will work on any platforms.

-jon


  

  
-mrt
  

  
  


  From: j...@radscan.com
  Sent: January 26, 2020 1:26 PM
  To: nicetry...@protonmail.ch
  Cc:
cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
  Subject: Re:
[cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION]
add generated manpages

  

  
  
  
Well, a couple of things...

1) how did you test them?  They should also perhaps be
checked in a UTF locale - or converted to UTF-8...

2) While I proposed pre-generating manpages, and the help
text previously, I got pushback from people. TBH, I am fine
with pre-generating the man pages.  They only exist in the
C/en locale anyway.

3) What are other peoples opinions on this patchset?

-jon
  
  On 1/26/20 12:07 PM, Chase wrote:
  
  
Yes, trying to get these to generate under autotools is
  a mess, we are going to throw out the docbook sgm files,
  docbooktoman and the rest and just add the post generation
  manpages so we can just install them via dist_man1_MANS =
  something.1, it will speed up build times and make life
  easier




  
Thank you for your time,

-Chase

  
  
  



‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

 On Sunday, January 26, 2020 1:00 PM, Jon Trulson 
  wrote:

 


  On 1/20/20 11:39 AM, Chase via cdesktopenv-devel
wrote:
  
   
  
  
these patches will make installing the manpages
  much easier via autotools, as we can just use man1=
  manpage.1 rather than the whole generated script mess
  I was working on earlier



  
  
  
  Hi,
  
   
  
   
  
   Can you explain this in more detail?  These patches
would seem to prevent the generation of manpages from
the underlying docbook sources...?
  
   
  
   Currently the autotools branch does not even attempt
to build anything in doc/ yet, so these could not have
been actually tested yet either...?
  
   
  
   -jon
  
   
  
   
  
   
  
  

  
Thank you for your time,

-Chase

Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add generated manpages

[Jon Trulson]

On 1/26/20 12:34 PM, Matthew R. Trower wrote:
> Well, if building manpages is truly a considerable slowdown, I guess I
> wouldn't be opposed to optionally forgoing compilation in favor of
> pre-generated files.  But the idea of only having pre-generated pages,
> and losing the ability to build from source, does not sit well with me.
>

Well, it's not a question of 'slowdown', it's a question of archaic BS
being used to build them.  Simplifies maintenance.

> Also, are you going to pre-generate for all platforms?  Various
> platforms have various incompatible syntax for man.

That's another issue - they have not been tested at all from what I can
see.  So, I have no idea if they will work on any platforms.

-jon

> -mrt
>
> *From:* j...@radscan.com
> *Sent:* January 26, 2020 1:26 PM
> *To:* nicetry...@protonmail.ch
> *Cc:* cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> *Subject:* Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add
> generated manpages
>
>
> Well, a couple of things...
>
> 1) how did you test them?  They should also perhaps be checked in a
> UTF locale - or converted to UTF-8...
>
> 2) While I proposed pre-generating manpages, and the help text
> previously, I got pushback from people. TBH, I am fine with
> pre-generating the man pages.  They only exist in the C/en locale anyway.
>
> 3) What are other peoples opinions on this patchset?
>
> -jon
>
> On 1/26/20 12:07 PM, Chase wrote:
>> Yes, trying to get these to generate under autotools is a mess, we
>> are going to throw out the docbook sgm files, docbooktoman and the
>> rest and just add the post generation manpages so we can just install
>> them via dist_man1_MANS = something.1, it will speed up build times
>> and make life easier
>>
>> Thank you for your time,
>> -Chase
>>
>>
>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>> On Sunday, January 26, 2020 1:00 PM, Jon Trulson  wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/20/20 11:39 AM, Chase via cdesktopenv-devel wrote:
>>>
>>>> these patches will make installing the manpages much easier via
>>>> autotools, as we can just use man1= manpage.1 rather than the whole
>>>> generated script mess I was working on earlier
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> Can you explain this in more detail?  These patches would seem to
>>> prevent the generation of manpages from the underlying docbook
>>> sources...?
>>>
>>> Currently the autotools branch does not even attempt to build
>>> anything in doc/ yet, so these could not have been actually tested
>>> yet either...?
>>>
>>> -jon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thank you for your time,
>>>> -Chase
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> cdesktopenv-devel mailing list
>>>> cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
>>>> <mailto:cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jon Trulson
>>>
>>>   "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
>>>-- Sheldon
>>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Jon Trulson
>
>   "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
>-- Sheldon

-- 
Jon Trulson

  "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
   -- Sheldon

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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add generated manpages

[Matthew R. Trower]

  Well, if building manpages is truly a considerable slowdown, I guess I wouldn't be opposed to optionally forgoing compilation in favor of pre-generated files.  But the idea of only having pre-generated pages, and losing the ability to build from source, does not sit well with me.  Also, are you going to pre-generate for all platforms?  Various platforms have various incompatible syntax for man.  -mrt   From: j...@radscan.comSent: January 26, 2020 1:26 PMTo: nicetry...@protonmail.chCc: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.netSubject: Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add generated manpages  Well, a couple of things...
  
  1) how did you test them?  They should also perhaps be checked in
  a UTF locale - or converted to UTF-8...
  
  2) While I proposed pre-generating manpages, and the help text
  previously, I got pushback from people. TBH, I am fine with
  pre-generating the man pages.  They only exist in the C/en locale
  anyway.
  
  3) What are other peoples opinions on this patchset?
  
  -jon
On 1/26/20 12:07 PM, Chase wrote:

  
  Yes, trying to get these to generate under autotools is a
mess, we are going to throw out the docbook sgm files,
docbooktoman and the rest and just add the post generation
manpages so we can just install them via dist_man1_MANS =
something.1, it will speed up build times and make life easier
  
  
  
  

  Thank you for your time,
  
  -Chase
  



  
  
  
  ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
  
   On Sunday, January 26, 2020 1:00 PM, Jon Trulson
 wrote:
  
   
  
  
On 1/20/20 11:39 AM, Chase via cdesktopenv-devel wrote:

 


  these patches will make installing the manpages much
easier via autotools, as we can just use man1= manpage.1
rather than the whole generated script mess I was working on
earlier
  
  
  



Hi,

 

 

 Can you explain this in more detail?  These patches would
  seem to prevent the generation of manpages from the underlying
  docbook sources...?

 

 Currently the autotools branch does not even attempt to
  build anything in doc/ yet, so these could not have been
  actually tested yet either...?

 

 -jon

 

 

 


  

  Thank you for your time,
  
  -Chase
  



  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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--
Jon Trulson

  "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
   -- Sheldon


  
  
  
-- 
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  "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
   -- Sheldon

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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add generated manpages

[Jon Trulson]

Ok, looking at these in more detail - there is no way you could have
tested these...

doc/ isn't even being built yet.  So, while I am ok with pregenerating
the manpages *as long as they can be verified to work on all the
platforms we support*, there is no way I am going to apply patches of
this magnitude when the underlying modules are not even built/functional
in autotools yet.

-jon

On 1/20/20 11:39 AM, Chase via cdesktopenv-devel wrote:
> these patches will make installing the manpages much easier via
> autotools, as we can just use man1= manpage.1 rather than the whole
> generated script mess I was working on earlier
>
> Thank you for your time,
> -Chase
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel

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  "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
   -- Sheldon

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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add generated manpages

[Jon Trulson]

Well, a couple of things...

1) how did you test them?  They should also perhaps be checked in a UTF
locale - or converted to UTF-8...

2) While I proposed pre-generating manpages, and the help text
previously, I got pushback from people. TBH, I am fine with
pre-generating the man pages.  They only exist in the C/en locale anyway.

3) What are other peoples opinions on this patchset?

-jon

On 1/26/20 12:07 PM, Chase wrote:
> Yes, trying to get these to generate under autotools is a mess, we are
> going to throw out the docbook sgm files, docbooktoman and the rest
> and just add the post generation manpages so we can just install them
> via dist_man1_MANS = something.1, it will speed up build times and
> make life easier
>
> Thank you for your time,
> -Chase
>
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Sunday, January 26, 2020 1:00 PM, Jon Trulson  wrote:
>
>> On 1/20/20 11:39 AM, Chase via cdesktopenv-devel wrote:
>>
>>> these patches will make installing the manpages much easier via
>>> autotools, as we can just use man1= manpage.1 rather than the whole
>>> generated script mess I was working on earlier
>>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> Can you explain this in more detail?  These patches would seem to
>> prevent the generation of manpages from the underlying docbook
>> sources...?
>>
>> Currently the autotools branch does not even attempt to build
>> anything in doc/ yet, so these could not have been actually tested
>> yet either...?
>>
>> -jon
>>
>>
>>
>>> Thank you for your time,
>>> -Chase
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> cdesktopenv-devel mailing list
>>> cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
>>> 
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jon Trulson
>>
>>   "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
>>-- Sheldon
>>
>

-- 
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  "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
   -- Sheldon

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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add generated manpages

[Jon Trulson]

I went ahead and applied this to autotools-conversion, but I do want the
priority on getting those other modules working first.

Thanks for the clean up though.

-jon

On 1/20/20 11:39 AM, Chase via cdesktopenv-devel wrote:
> these patches will make installing the manpages much easier via
> autotools, as we can just use man1= manpage.1 rather than the whole
> generated script mess I was working on earlier
>
> Thank you for your time,
> -Chase
>
>
>
>
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  "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
   -- Sheldon

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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add generated manpages

[Jon Trulson]

Ah, and one more thing - WRT the autotools branch, I'd prefer:

1. Do not remove any of the imake stuff.  I will do all of that myself
when that branch is ready for merging into master.  It is handy having
around while the conversion is still in progress.

2. I would prefer to concentrate on getting the remaining stuff building
before fixing any other issues that could also apply to master (your
next patch regarding DtGetHourGlass).

Remaining modules that still need to be autotooled:

dthelp dtksh dtappbuilder dtdocbook dtinfo nsgmls ttsnoop and doc/

nsgmls can go once doc is working,  or during the process of getting
doc/ working...  But the top priority in that branch is to get these
remaining modules working.

-jon

On 1/26/20 12:00 PM, Jon Trulson wrote:
> On 1/20/20 11:39 AM, Chase via cdesktopenv-devel wrote:
>> these patches will make installing the manpages much easier via
>> autotools, as we can just use man1= manpage.1 rather than the whole
>> generated script mess I was working on earlier
>>
>
> Hi,
>
>
> Can you explain this in more detail?  These patches would seem to
> prevent the generation of manpages from the underlying docbook sources...?
>
> Currently the autotools branch does not even attempt to build anything
> in doc/ yet, so these could not have been actually tested yet either...?
>
> -jon
>
>
>> Thank you for your time,
>> -Chase
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel
>
> -- 
> Jon Trulson
>
>   "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
>-- Sheldon
>
>
> ___
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> cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel

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   -- Sheldon

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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add generated manpages

[Chase via cdesktopenv-devel]

Yes, trying to get these to generate under autotools is a mess, we are going to 
throw out the docbook sgm files, docbooktoman and the rest and just add the 
post generation manpages so we can just install them via dist_man1_MANS = 
something.1, it will speed up build times and make life easier

Thank you for your time,
-Chase

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, January 26, 2020 1:00 PM, Jon Trulson  wrote:

> On 1/20/20 11:39 AM, Chase via cdesktopenv-devel wrote:
>
>> these patches will make installing the manpages much easier via autotools, 
>> as we can just use man1= manpage.1 rather than the whole generated script 
>> mess I was working on earlier
>
> Hi,
>
> Can you explain this in more detail?  These patches would seem to prevent the 
> generation of manpages from the underlying docbook sources...?
>
> Currently the autotools branch does not even attempt to build anything in 
> doc/ yet, so these could not have been actually tested yet either...?
>
> -jon
>
>> Thank you for your time,
>> -Chase
>>
>> ___
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>> cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel
>
> --
> Jon Trulson
>
>   "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
>-- Sheldon___
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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] [PATCH][AUTOTOOLS-CONVERSION] add generated manpages

[Jon Trulson]

On 1/20/20 11:39 AM, Chase via cdesktopenv-devel wrote:
> these patches will make installing the manpages much easier via
> autotools, as we can just use man1= manpage.1 rather than the whole
> generated script mess I was working on earlier
>

Hi,


Can you explain this in more detail?  These patches would seem to
prevent the generation of manpages from the underlying docbook sources...?

Currently the autotools branch does not even attempt to build anything
in doc/ yet, so these could not have been actually tested yet either...?

-jon


> Thank you for your time,
> -Chase
>
>
>
>
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  "Entropy.  It isn't what it used to be."
   -- Sheldon

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