RE: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Jeffry Houser]

At 12:49 PM 1/18/2005, you wrote:
>Man, I think we all need to step back and look at all this with a little
>more humor and with less business acumen.  I mean any IT professional's
>title has some overlap with others.

  Just like any "profession", really.  Such as marketing and sales down to 
receptionists.


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AIM: Reboog711  | Phone: 1-203-379-0773
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Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Bryan Stevenson]

Amen brother!

I know what I do...and that's all I care about (not what it's 
called)...anybody I hire has to pass a test so that I know that they know 
what they can doI could care less if they call themselves programmers or 
fluffy clouds...as long as they can do the job.

Life is only as complicated as you make it for yourself ;-)

Now everybody get on with theirs

Cheers

Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
phone: 250.480.0642
fax: 250.480.1264
cell: 250.920.8830
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.electricedgesystems.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Brandon Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 9:49 AM
Subject: RE: software developers vs web-site developers?


> Yes, it was definitely a funny
>
> Man, I think we all need to step back and look at all this with a little
> more humor and with less business acumen.  I mean any IT professional's
> title has some overlap with others.  It is the nature of the proverbial
> IT beast.  It is the recruiters who have tried to place us all into a
> tightly wound job description that looks acceptable to the hiring
> management--making them "look" like they know what they are asking for.
> when, in actuality, they know nothing about what we do or how to ram us
> round professionals into square projects.
>
> Can I get an Amen?
>
> Jeez
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:00 AM
> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> Subject: Re: software developers vs web-site developers?
>
>  I still don't get it.
>
> At 11:42 AM 1/18/2005, you wrote:
>>LOL...he was being a smarta$$ Maureen...get it "object" oriented
> "graphical"
>>designer...objects are graphics..haha ;-)
>>
>>Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
>>VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
>>Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
>>phone: 250.480.0642
>>fax: 250.480.1264
>>cell: 250.920.8830
>>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>web: www.electricedgesystems.com
>>- Original Message -
>>From: "Maureen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" 
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 8:32 AM
>>Subject: Re: software developers vs web-site developers?
>>
>>
>> > Not sure what that means either.
>> >
>> > I've been programming for over 30 years, developing both software
> and
>> > applications.  I moved to web development in 1995 after breaking my
>> > back and using the download to learn web programming, of various
>> > sorts.   These days, I'm not sure what I call my skill set,  since
>> > I can do any kind of programming required.  Truth be told, however,
> my
>> > preference is pure database design and programming.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:22:54 -0600, Brandon Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>> >> I am an object oriented graphical developer.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> From: Maureen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:21 PM
>> >> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
>> >> Subject: Re: software developers vs web-site developers?
>> >>
>> >> Web only, as in being built by tools specifically designed for the
>> >> web, such as JAVA, Cold Fusion and .NET as opposed to non-web
>> >> programming languages than the average web developer would not
> know?
>> >> Millions of them.
>> >>
>> >> I suspect the original job posting was looking for someone whose
> skill
>> >> set extended beyond web applications.
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:14:19 -0500, Michael Dinowitz
>> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> > In this day and age, how many 'websites' are web only?
>> >> >
>> >> > > Web developers usually only do websites. Software developers
> are
>> >> > > experienced in creating applications for use beyond the web, or
>> >> > > integrating web sites with other applications.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 

~|
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RE: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Brandon Wood]

Yes, it was definitely a funny

Man, I think we all need to step back and look at all this with a little
more humor and with less business acumen.  I mean any IT professional's
title has some overlap with others.  It is the nature of the proverbial
IT beast.  It is the recruiters who have tried to place us all into a
tightly wound job description that looks acceptable to the hiring
management--making them "look" like they know what they are asking for.
when, in actuality, they know nothing about what we do or how to ram us
round professionals into square projects.

Can I get an Amen?

Jeez


-Original Message-
From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:00 AM
To: CF-Jobs-Talk
Subject: Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

  I still don't get it.

At 11:42 AM 1/18/2005, you wrote:
>LOL...he was being a smarta$$ Maureen...get it "object" oriented
"graphical"
>designer...objects are graphics..haha ;-)
>
>Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
>VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
>Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
>phone: 250.480.0642
>fax: 250.480.1264
>cell: 250.920.8830
>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>web: www.electricedgesystems.com
>- Original Message -
>From: "Maureen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" 
>Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 8:32 AM
>Subject: Re: software developers vs web-site developers?
>
>
> > Not sure what that means either.
> >
> > I've been programming for over 30 years, developing both software
and
> > applications.  I moved to web development in 1995 after breaking my
> > back and using the download to learn web programming, of various
> > sorts.   These days, I'm not sure what I call my skill set,  since
> > I can do any kind of programming required.  Truth be told, however,
my
> > preference is pure database design and programming.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:22:54 -0600, Brandon Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >> I am an object oriented graphical developer.
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Maureen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:21 PM
> >> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> >> Subject: Re: software developers vs web-site developers?
> >>
> >> Web only, as in being built by tools specifically designed for the
> >> web, such as JAVA, Cold Fusion and .NET as opposed to non-web
> >> programming languages than the average web developer would not
know?
> >> Millions of them.
> >>
> >> I suspect the original job posting was looking for someone whose
skill
> >> set extended beyond web applications.
> >>
> >> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:14:19 -0500, Michael Dinowitz
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > In this day and age, how many 'websites' are web only?
> >> >
> >> > > Web developers usually only do websites. Software developers
are
> >> > > experienced in creating applications for use beyond the web, or
> >> > > integrating web sites with other applications.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>



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Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Simon Horwith]

I thought I'd put in my two cents.  I always take the position that an 
individual's approach to development is what distinguishes them as a 
software developer rather than a web developer.  I would not categorize 
the majority of the ColdFusion developers I've met as software 
developers.  That's not to say that you can't be a software developer 
and a ColdFusion developer... far from it, in fact.  An overwhelming 
majority of CF Developers don't have a background in development with 
"traditional" programming languages and/or don't develop CF Apps in as 
modular and reusable a manner as they could.  That doesn't mean they're 
less valuable in a development environment.  The majority of the 
companies using CF, in my experience, don't have business needs that 
require their CF Applications to be written in such a way.  If a CF 
Developer can quickly knock out a few simple pages to perform CRUD 
operations and that's all that's ever asked of them, it's difficult to 
warrant them taking the time to learn and use more sophisticated 
development techniques... not if they are constantly working under tight 
deadlines, anyway.  Obviously, this doesn't apply to everyone - but it 
is a very common scenario. I don't believe that whether the applications 
a person develops are web-based, standalone, or a hybrid of the two, has 
anything to do with whether or not they're a "software developer".  
Programming is programming and the approach to development distinguishes 
what category of programmer a person falls into.  It's all zeros and 
ones in the end, after all ;)

~Simon

Simon Horwith
CIO, AboutWeb - http://www.aboutweb.com
Editor-in-Chief, ColdFusion Developers Journal
Member of Team Macromedia
Macromedia Certified Master Instructor
Blog - http://www.horwith.com




Maureen wrote:

>Web only, as in being built by tools specifically designed for the
>web, such as JAVA, Cold Fusion and .NET as opposed to non-web
>programming languages than the average web developer would not know? 
>Millions of them.
>
>I suspect the original job posting was looking for someone whose skill
>set extended beyond web applications.
>
>
>On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:14:19 -0500, Michael Dinowitz
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>
>>In this day and age, how many 'websites' are web only?
>>
>>
>>
>>>Web developers usually only do websites. Software developers are
>>>experienced in creating applications for use beyond the web, or
>>>integrating web sites with other applications.
>>>  
>>>
>
>

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Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Jeffry Houser]

  I still don't get it.

At 11:42 AM 1/18/2005, you wrote:
>LOL...he was being a smarta$$ Maureen...get it "object" oriented "graphical"
>designer...objects are graphics..haha ;-)
>
>Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
>VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
>Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
>phone: 250.480.0642
>fax: 250.480.1264
>cell: 250.920.8830
>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>web: www.electricedgesystems.com
>- Original Message -
>From: "Maureen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" 
>Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 8:32 AM
>Subject: Re: software developers vs web-site developers?
>
>
> > Not sure what that means either.
> >
> > I've been programming for over 30 years, developing both software and
> > applications.  I moved to web development in 1995 after breaking my
> > back and using the download to learn web programming, of various
> > sorts.   These days, I'm not sure what I call my skill set,  since
> > I can do any kind of programming required.  Truth be told, however, my
> > preference is pure database design and programming.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:22:54 -0600, Brandon Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> I am an object oriented graphical developer.
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Maureen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:21 PM
> >> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> >> Subject: Re: software developers vs web-site developers?
> >>
> >> Web only, as in being built by tools specifically designed for the
> >> web, such as JAVA, Cold Fusion and .NET as opposed to non-web
> >> programming languages than the average web developer would not know?
> >> Millions of them.
> >>
> >> I suspect the original job posting was looking for someone whose skill
> >> set extended beyond web applications.
> >>
> >> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:14:19 -0500, Michael Dinowitz
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > In this day and age, how many 'websites' are web only?
> >> >
> >> > > Web developers usually only do websites. Software developers are
> >> > > experienced in creating applications for use beyond the web, or
> >> > > integrating web sites with other applications.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

~|
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Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Bryan Stevenson]

LOL...he was being a smarta$$ Maureen...get it "object" oriented "graphical" 
designer...objects are graphics..haha ;-)

Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
phone: 250.480.0642
fax: 250.480.1264
cell: 250.920.8830
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.electricedgesystems.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Maureen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Jobs-Talk" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: software developers vs web-site developers?


> Not sure what that means either.
>
> I've been programming for over 30 years, developing both software and
> applications.  I moved to web development in 1995 after breaking my
> back and using the download to learn web programming, of various
> sorts.   These days, I'm not sure what I call my skill set,  since
> I can do any kind of programming required.  Truth be told, however, my
> preference is pure database design and programming.
>
>
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:22:54 -0600, Brandon Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I am an object oriented graphical developer.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: Maureen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:21 PM
>> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
>> Subject: Re: software developers vs web-site developers?
>>
>> Web only, as in being built by tools specifically designed for the
>> web, such as JAVA, Cold Fusion and .NET as opposed to non-web
>> programming languages than the average web developer would not know?
>> Millions of them.
>>
>> I suspect the original job posting was looking for someone whose skill
>> set extended beyond web applications.
>>
>> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:14:19 -0500, Michael Dinowitz
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > In this day and age, how many 'websites' are web only?
>> >
>> > > Web developers usually only do websites. Software developers are
>> > > experienced in creating applications for use beyond the web, or
>> > > integrating web sites with other applications.
>>
>>
>>
>
> 

~|
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Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Maureen]

Not sure what that means either.

I've been programming for over 30 years, developing both software and
applications.  I moved to web development in 1995 after breaking my
back and using the download to learn web programming, of various
sorts.   These days, I'm not sure what I call my skill set,  since
I can do any kind of programming required.  Truth be told, however, my
preference is pure database design and programming.


On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:22:54 -0600, Brandon Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am an object oriented graphical developer.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Maureen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:21 PM
> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> Subject: Re: software developers vs web-site developers?
> 
> Web only, as in being built by tools specifically designed for the
> web, such as JAVA, Cold Fusion and .NET as opposed to non-web
> programming languages than the average web developer would not know?
> Millions of them.
> 
> I suspect the original job posting was looking for someone whose skill
> set extended beyond web applications.
> 
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:14:19 -0500, Michael Dinowitz
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In this day and age, how many 'websites' are web only?
> >
> > > Web developers usually only do websites. Software developers are
> > > experienced in creating applications for use beyond the web, or
> > > integrating web sites with other applications.
> 
> 
> 

~|
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RE: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Brandon Wood]

I am an object oriented graphical developer.



-Original Message-
From: Maureen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:21 PM
To: CF-Jobs-Talk
Subject: Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

Web only, as in being built by tools specifically designed for the
web, such as JAVA, Cold Fusion and .NET as opposed to non-web
programming languages than the average web developer would not know? 
Millions of them.

I suspect the original job posting was looking for someone whose skill
set extended beyond web applications.


On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:14:19 -0500, Michael Dinowitz
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In this day and age, how many 'websites' are web only?
> 
> > Web developers usually only do websites. Software developers are
> > experienced in creating applications for use beyond the web, or
> > integrating web sites with other applications.



~|
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Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Maureen]

Web only, as in being built by tools specifically designed for the
web, such as JAVA, Cold Fusion and .NET as opposed to non-web
programming languages than the average web developer would not know? 
Millions of them.

I suspect the original job posting was looking for someone whose skill
set extended beyond web applications.


On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:14:19 -0500, Michael Dinowitz
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In this day and age, how many 'websites' are web only?
> 
> > Web developers usually only do websites. Software developers are
> > experienced in creating applications for use beyond the web, or
> > integrating web sites with other applications.

~|
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Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Bryan Stevenson]

>In this day and age, how many 'websites' are web only?

more sites are static that dynamic...but if you are talking commercial 
sites...then I'd say more are dynamic than static

Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
phone: 250.480.0642
fax: 250.480.1264
cell: 250.920.8830
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.electricedgesystems.com 


~|
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RE: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Michael Dinowitz]

In this day and age, how many 'websites' are web only?

> Web developers usually only do websites. Software developers are
> experienced in creating applications for use beyond the web, or
> integrating web sites with other applications.
> 
> 
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:41:57 -0400, Johnny Le <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Michael Dinowitz just posted a message on the CF-Jobs forum looking for
> two Cold Fusion MX Developers.  At the end of the message, he made the
> distinction that 'Our client is looking for software developers not "web-
> site developers".'
> >
> > What exactly is the difference between sofware developers and web site
> developers?  We are talking about ColdFusion here.  ColdFusion is strictly
> web-based.  Aren't all ColdFusion applications web sites?  Aren't all
> ColdFusion software developers "web-site developers"?  What are the
> requirements you should have in order to call yourself a software
> developer?
> >
> > Johnny
> >
> >
> 
> 

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Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Maureen]

Web developers usually only do websites. Software developers are
experienced in creating applications for use beyond the web, or
integrating web sites with other applications.


On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:41:57 -0400, Johnny Le <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael Dinowitz just posted a message on the CF-Jobs forum looking for two 
> Cold Fusion MX Developers.  At the end of the message, he made the 
> distinction that 'Our client is looking for software developers not "web-site 
> developers".'
> 
> What exactly is the difference between sofware developers and web site 
> developers?  We are talking about ColdFusion here.  ColdFusion is strictly 
> web-based.  Aren't all ColdFusion applications web sites?  Aren't all 
> ColdFusion software developers "web-site developers"?  What are the 
> requirements you should have in order to call yourself a software developer?
> 
> Johnny
> 
> 

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Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Jerry Johnson]

How often has this thread come up in the last ten years in the programming 
world? Yikes. Seldom any resolution, though.

Some terms to help confuse the issue:
  Software Developer
  Website Developer
  Developer
  HTML Coder
  Code Monkey
  Programmer
  DBA
  Software Engineer
  Analyst II

My thoughts:
I don't think OO necessarily comes into it, as many programmers are still 
working in C and Assembler, or other languages not supporting objects.
I think an engineer needs at least a BS degree in software engineering.
Most of the rest are really hiring buzzwords that truly signify nothing. 
I don't think the quality of a developers work can be judged by the label 
placed on them by their hr department.

I often change my title depending on who I am dealing with. (Sales, marketing, 
business owners, IT pros, family.)


On the other hand, there is a very wide range of programming capabilities. Some 
of this is experience (time in the seat), but more than that it is development 
approach. For example, I can throw up a web page in a few hours for a new site, 
but I try to get my clients to realize that up-front planning is all important. 
I try to spend the first 35%-40% of a project in planning and design. But the 
clients seldom understand that need. They want to see pretty pictures. ASAP. 
They don't understand UAT, IA, the difference between a design sample, a 
prototype and a beta.

Q: Does the way you label yourself, or the way you are labeled, truly define 
your skillset and approach?


Jerry Johnson
Web Developer
Dolan Media Company

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/12/05 05:13PM >>>
Hi Mike,

You confused me even more. In your ad, you distinguished between software 
developers and web site developers, but here you distinguish between engineers 
and programmers.  Are you saying software developers are like engineers and web 
site developers are like programmers?



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RE: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Jacob]

This has the making of an IQ test questions...

If some programmers are engineers and some engineers are developers...

-Original Message-
From: Johnny Le [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 2:13 PM
To: CF-Jobs-Talk
Subject: Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

Hi Mike,

You confused me even more. In your ad, you distinguished between software
developers and web site developers, but here you distinguish between
engineers and programmers.  Are you saying software developers are like
engineers and web site developers are like programmers?

Johnny


>Actually, it was the recruiters language, not mine. On the other hand, I am
>writing an article to distinguish between programmers and software
>engineers. 
>The difference can be summarized as an engineer has the time and ability to
>plan out a whole application from 0 to finish. They use UML, OO, and full
>documentation before beginning. A programmer usually does not have the time
>or ability to do all that. They write code for an app that may be
>standalone, may be an extension of something already in existence or a
patch
>for a bug. There's little planning vs. implementing and usually little
>documentation.
>For example, I'm mainly a programmer. I don't have the luxury of doing full
>scale planning for my own stuff or at my job. I can do the full engineer
>thing with pages of docs, designs, etc. but it falls down to time. I need
to
>implement something now, not 3-6 months down the road. An engineer is
>looking at that time frame or more.
>This is not to say an engineer is not a programmer or a programmer is not
an
>engineer. It's saying that the approach, mindset and focus is different. 
>
>>



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RE: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Michael Dinowitz]

In the ad which I forwarded from someone else, the recruiter made the
distinction between software and website developers. When the question of
what this meant came up, I gave my interpretation. 
Yes, I'm making the (loose) connection. It sounds like they want to spend 9
months with a month or two sitting down doing the whole UML, OO,
documentation route. This is an engineering approach for a project that is
not time critical. 
Or it may just mean they want someone with more programming experience. I'd
ask the recruiter directly. 

> Hi Mike,
> 
> You confused me even more. In your ad, you distinguished between software
> developers and web site developers, but here you distinguish between
> engineers and programmers.  Are you saying software developers are like
> engineers and web site developers are like programmers?
> 
> Johnny



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Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Johnny Le]

Hi Mike,

You confused me even more. In your ad, you distinguished between software 
developers and web site developers, but here you distinguish between engineers 
and programmers.  Are you saying software developers are like engineers and web 
site developers are like programmers?

Johnny


>Actually, it was the recruiters language, not mine. On the other hand, I am
>writing an article to distinguish between programmers and software
>engineers. 
>The difference can be summarized as an engineer has the time and ability to
>plan out a whole application from 0 to finish. They use UML, OO, and full
>documentation before beginning. A programmer usually does not have the time
>or ability to do all that. They write code for an app that may be
>standalone, may be an extension of something already in existence or a patch
>for a bug. There's little planning vs. implementing and usually little
>documentation.
>For example, I'm mainly a programmer. I don't have the luxury of doing full
>scale planning for my own stuff or at my job. I can do the full engineer
>thing with pages of docs, designs, etc. but it falls down to time. I need to
>implement something now, not 3-6 months down the road. An engineer is
>looking at that time frame or more.
>This is not to say an engineer is not a programmer or a programmer is not an
>engineer. It's saying that the approach, mindset and focus is different. 
>
>>

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Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Tyler Fitch]

This sounds like a thread that's primed to have all hell break loose -
except it's on a lower traffic list than CF-Talk.  Whew.

I'd say that the difference is subtle but important.  A software
developer has more formal training and understanding of programming
(web and non-web).  A web site developer is generally someone who
found limitations in developing HTML sites and picked up something
like CF to aid with their problems.

The capabilities and quality of work these two developers can be
greatly different.

I'll leave it at that.

t


On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:41:57 -0400, Johnny Le <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael Dinowitz just posted a message on the CF-Jobs forum looking for two 
> Cold Fusion MX Developers.  At the end of the message, he made the 
> distinction that 'Our client is looking for software developers not "web-site 
> developers".'
> 
> What exactly is the difference between sofware developers and web site 
> developers?  We are talking about ColdFusion here.  ColdFusion is strictly 
> web-based.  Aren't all ColdFusion applications web sites?  Aren't all 
> ColdFusion software developers "web-site developers"?  What are the 
> requirements you should have in order to call yourself a software developer?
> 
> Johnny
> 
> 

~|
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RE: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Michael Dinowitz]

Actually, it was the recruiters language, not mine. On the other hand, I am
writing an article to distinguish between programmers and software
engineers. 
The difference can be summarized as an engineer has the time and ability to
plan out a whole application from 0 to finish. They use UML, OO, and full
documentation before beginning. A programmer usually does not have the time
or ability to do all that. They write code for an app that may be
standalone, may be an extension of something already in existence or a patch
for a bug. There's little planning vs. implementing and usually little
documentation.
For example, I'm mainly a programmer. I don't have the luxury of doing full
scale planning for my own stuff or at my job. I can do the full engineer
thing with pages of docs, designs, etc. but it falls down to time. I need to
implement something now, not 3-6 months down the road. An engineer is
looking at that time frame or more.
This is not to say an engineer is not a programmer or a programmer is not an
engineer. It's saying that the approach, mindset and focus is different. 

> Michael Dinowitz just posted a message on the CF-Jobs forum looking for
> two Cold Fusion MX Developers.  At the end of the message, he made the
> distinction that 'Our client is looking for software developers not "web-
> site developers".'
> 
> What exactly is the difference between sofware developers and web site
> developers?  We are talking about ColdFusion here.  ColdFusion is strictly
> web-based.  Aren't all ColdFusion applications web sites?  Aren't all
> ColdFusion software developers "web-site developers"?  What are the
> requirements you should have in order to call yourself a software
> developer?
> 
> Johnny
> 
> 

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Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

[JediHomer]

I would think it is something to do with the background of the
candidate.  A web site developer could have been self taught, starting
with html, javascript then moving onto asp and ColdFusion.  Whereas a
Software developer will have used more lower level languages may be
University educated and has understandings of the concepts of OO.



On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:41:57 -0400, Johnny Le <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael Dinowitz just posted a message on the CF-Jobs forum looking for two 
> Cold Fusion MX Developers.  At the end of the message, he made the 
> distinction that 'Our client is looking for software developers not "web-site 
> developers".'
> 
> What exactly is the difference between sofware developers and web site 
> developers?  We are talking about ColdFusion here.  ColdFusion is strictly 
> web-based.  Aren't all ColdFusion applications web sites?  Aren't all 
> ColdFusion software developers "web-site developers"?  What are the 
> requirements you should have in order to call yourself a software developer?
> 
> Johnny
> 
> 

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Re: software developers vs web-site developers?

[Bryan Stevenson]

web sites are prettysoftware is smart ;-)

think developer vs. designer

He's just meaning that a pretty site with a shopping cart does not constitue 
"software"

BTW...a business system can be web-basd and NOT be a website 
(intranet...extranet etc.)

just semantics...but I'm sure this will kick off another "I'm right and yer 
wrong" thread...and just when I had stopped having nightmares about whatever 
the hell John Dodwell thinks of MM ;-)

Cheers

Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
phone: 250.480.0642
fax: 250.480.1264
cell: 250.920.8830
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.electricedgesystems.com 


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