[CF-metadata] new standard name requests
All:
Are we considering the following standard name final for the effective cloud
height parameter we had been discussing? I have not heard any dissent in
recent weeks and I need to get this integrated into my files ASAP.
Kris
From: Bedka, Kristopher M. (LARC-E302)[SCIENCE SYSTEMS AND APPLICATIONS, INC]
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 12:29 PM
To: CF Metadata Mail List
Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] new standard name requests
Charlie:
I am supportive of:
height_at_effective_cloud_top_defined_by_infrared_radiation
Kris
=
Kristopher Bedka
Senior Research Scientist
Science Systems Applications, Inc. @ NASA Langley Research Center
Climate Science Branch
1 Enterprise Parkway, Suite 200
Hampton, VA 23666
Primary Office Phone: (757) 864-5798
Secondary Office Phone: (757) 951-1920
Fax: (757) 951-1902
kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov
=
-Original Message-
From: Charlie Zender zen...@uci.edu
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:23 PM
To: CF Metadata Mail List cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu
Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] new standard name requests
I think that the name should encode the method if the result is
sensitive to the method.
Here there be dragons. Can it be said that this is not a different
measurement of the same thing, but a measurement of a different
property?
Yes. Kris says it is not adjusted to be a true cloud-top height
estimate so it should not be labeled to appear as such.
If you go this route, a perhaps clearer option for the name is
suggested by an existing pattern:
height_at_cloud_top_defined_by_infrared_radiation
Although I like this better than what I proposed, it still needs work.
This has the added benefit that it puts the emphasis on what is
being measured, rather than the act of measuring ('retrieval').
Agreed
Without knowing more about their algorithm, it sounds like what LARC
retrieves and wishes to archive, is (approximately) the geometric
height above the surface that is one optical depth (at 11 um) from the
cloud top (as defined by visible/lidar techniques). This could be
called the effective height since a preponderance of the captured
photons will have the blackbody temperature signature of the
atmosphere at this height. So, I would splice-in effective
height_at_effective_cloud_top_defined_by_infrared_radiation
although I could live with
height_at_cloud_top_defined_by_infrared_radiation
I think practioners in the field would better understand
the meaning of the former than the latter.
c
--
Charlie Zender, Earth System Sci. Computer Sci.
University of California, Irvine 949-891-2429 )'(
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Re: [CF-metadata] new standard name requests
Charlie:
I am supportive of:
height_at_effective_cloud_top_defined_by_infrared_radiation
Kris
=
Kristopher Bedka
Senior Research Scientist
Science Systems Applications, Inc. @ NASA Langley Research Center
Climate Science Branch
1 Enterprise Parkway, Suite 200
Hampton, VA 23666
Primary Office Phone: (757) 864-5798
Secondary Office Phone: (757) 951-1920
Fax: (757) 951-1902
kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov
=
-Original Message-
From: Charlie Zender zen...@uci.edu
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:23 PM
To: CF Metadata Mail List cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu
Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] new standard name requests
I think that the name should encode the method if the result is
sensitive to the method.
Here there be dragons. Can it be said that this is not a different
measurement of the same thing, but a measurement of a different
property?
Yes. Kris says it is not adjusted to be a true cloud-top height
estimate so it should not be labeled to appear as such.
If you go this route, a perhaps clearer option for the name is
suggested by an existing pattern:
height_at_cloud_top_defined_by_infrared_radiation
Although I like this better than what I proposed, it still needs work.
This has the added benefit that it puts the emphasis on what is
being measured, rather than the act of measuring ('retrieval').
Agreed
Without knowing more about their algorithm, it sounds like what LARC
retrieves and wishes to archive, is (approximately) the geometric
height above the surface that is one optical depth (at 11 um) from the
cloud top (as defined by visible/lidar techniques). This could be
called the effective height since a preponderance of the captured
photons will have the blackbody temperature signature of the
atmosphere at this height. So, I would splice-in effective
height_at_effective_cloud_top_defined_by_infrared_radiation
although I could live with
height_at_cloud_top_defined_by_infrared_radiation
I think practioners in the field would better understand
the meaning of the former than the latter.
c
--
Charlie Zender, Earth System Sci. Computer Sci.
University of California, Irvine 949-891-2429 )'(
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[CF-metadata] standard name request for a satellite pixel-level cloud mask
We are detecting cloudy and clear sky pixels using a combination passive infrared and visible satellite imagery. The community typically calls this product a cloud mask, i.e. byte value 0=clear sky pixel, 1=cloudy pixel. I am reviewing the CF Standard Name table and I see no name that would correspond to this type of product. I see the name cloud_area_fraction, but the concept of fraction would imply that one considers several pixels in a region and computes the ratio of cloudy pixels relative to the total number of pixels in the region. This is not being done with our processing. I'd recommend something like cloudy_satellite_pixel_detection, but am open to other suggestions Kris = Kristopher Bedka Senior Research Scientist Science Systems Applications, Inc. @ NASA Langley Research Center Climate Science Branch 1 Enterprise Parkway, Suite 200 Hampton, VA 23666 Primary Office Phone: (757) 864-5798 Secondary Office Phone: (757) 951-1920 Fax: (757) 951-1902 kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov = ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
Re: [CF-metadata] standard name request for a satellite pixel-level cloud mask
That would work for me = Kristopher Bedka Senior Research Scientist Science Systems Applications, Inc. @ NASA Langley Research Center Climate Science Branch 1 Enterprise Parkway, Suite 200 Hampton, VA 23666 Primary Office Phone: (757) 864-5798 Secondary Office Phone: (757) 951-1920 Fax: (757) 951-1902 kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov = -Original Message- From: Jonathan Gregory j.m.greg...@reading.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 12:53 PM To: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: [CF-metadata] standard name request for a satellite pixel-level cloud mask Dear Kris cloud_binary_mask would be exactly the right standard name, I think, as Jim suggests. Cheers Jonathan We are detecting cloudy and clear sky pixels using a combination passive infrared and visible satellite imagery. The community typically calls this product a cloud mask, i.e. byte value 0=clear sky pixel, 1=cloudy pixel. I am reviewing the CF Standard Name table and I see no name that would correspond to this type of product. I see the name cloud_area_fraction, but the concept of fraction would imply that one considers several pixels in a region and computes the ratio of cloudy pixels relative to the total number of pixels in the region. This is not being done with our processing. I'd recommend something like cloudy_satellite_pixel_detection, but am open to other suggestions ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
Re: [CF-metadata] new standard name requests
Charlie and John: Thanks for the discussion, this is really good background information for the list. The effective or radiative center height that we retrieve can be at least 1 km below the true cloud top as measured by a lidar. We also produce a cloud top height product that matches well with lidar heights, but this parameter is a function of the effective height, retrieved cloud optical depth and other information. So I hesitate to use the term cloud top in association with the product we're discussing here because it is clear that our height is at some depth within the cloud. Kris = Kristopher Bedka Senior Research Scientist Science Systems Applications, Inc. @ NASA Langley Research Center Climate Science Branch 1 Enterprise Parkway, Suite 200 Hampton, VA 23666 Primary Office Phone: (757) 864-5798 Secondary Office Phone: (757) 951-1920 Fax: (757) 951-1902 kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov = -Original Message- From: Charlie Zender zen...@uci.edu Organization: University of California, Irvine Date: Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:31 AM To: CF Metadata Mail List cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Cc: Bedka, Kristopher M. (LARC-E302)[SCIENCE SYSTEMS AND APPLICATIONS, INC] kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov Subject: Re: new standard name requests Hi Kris, Try to pick a name that matches what the algorithm retrieves. What you have described seems much closer to an effective cloud top height for 11 um photons. So first I would replace the word center with something like top. As you note, satellites traditionally use IR techniques to estimate cloud height. Does your product differ in practice from what some now store as height_at_cloud_top? If not, use that name. It seems like your intent is to be more precise and explicitly recognize the radiative basis of the height measurement. And I laud that because height depends on how it's measured/defined: Clouds become optically thick sooner in the IR than the visible, so visible photons might lead to a retrieval of ten to a few hundred meters (depending on condensate concentration) less in height than IR photons. Lidar is an example of a visible technique. Many models define clouds with a condensate concentration threshold. I think that the name should encode the method if the result is sensitive to the method. Possibly your retrieval algorithm already corrects for sensitivity to the method (e.g., to estimate a wavelength-independent height). Others will say this sensitivity to method is a given and should not be reflected in the name... If you want all that reflected in a new name, then maybe something along these lines for your quantity: height_at_radiative_cloud_top height_at_retreived_cloud_top height_at_IR_radiative_cloud_top height_at_IR_retrieved_cloud_top height_at_thermal_cloud_top height_at_11um_retrieved_cloud_top height_at_infrared_retrieved_cloud_top I prefer the last suggestion. Others with more experience at CF name construction might improve on these with this as background. Best, c -- Charlie Zender, Earth System Sci. Computer Sci. University of California, Irvine 949-891-2429 )'( ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
Re: [CF-metadata] new standard name requests
Valerie: Your suggestions look good to me Kris = Kristopher Bedka Senior Research Scientist Science Systems Applications, Inc. @ NASA Langley Research Center Climate Science Branch 1 Enterprise Parkway, Suite 200 Hampton, VA 23666 Primary Office Phone: (757) 864-5798 Secondary Office Phone: (757) 951-1920 Fax: (757) 951-1902 kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov = From: Valerie Toner - NOAA Affiliate valerie.to...@noaa.govmailto:valerie.to...@noaa.gov Date: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 4:58 PM To: Bedka, Kristopher M. (LARC-E302)[SCIENCE SYSTEMS AND APPLICATIONS, INC] kristopher.m.be...@nasa.govmailto:kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edumailto:cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edumailto:cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] new standard name requests Based on existing values of similar standard names, Existing: height_at_cloud_top (m) air_pressure_at_cloud_top (Pa) air_temperature_at_cloud_top (K) What about: height_at_cloud_radiative_center (km) air_pressure_at_cloud_radiative_center (hPa) air_temperature_at_cloud_radiative_center (K) Thanks, valerie On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Bedka, Kristopher M. (LARC-E302)[SCIENCE SYSTEMS AND APPLICATIONS, INC] kristopher.m.be...@nasa.govmailto:kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov wrote: Yes I do need a standard name for the height because, from what I understand, all NOAA climate data records need a standard name. We produce height, pressure, and air temperature at this cloud radiative center level. One cannot easily translate between height and pressure without ancillary information, so we felt it is important to include both parameters. In addition, specific users (i.e. aviation) may work in height space whereas others may use pressure. height_of_the_cloud_radiative_center would definitely be acceptable. = Kristopher Bedka Senior Research Scientist Science Systems Applications, Inc. @ NASA Langley Research Center Climate Science Branch 1 Enterprise Parkway, Suite 200 Hampton, VA 23666 Primary Office Phone: (757) 864-5798tel:%28757%29%20864-5798 Secondary Office Phone: (757) 951-1920tel:%28757%29%20951-1920 Fax: (757) 951-1902tel:%28757%29%20951-1902 kristopher.m.be...@nasa.govmailto:kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov = From: Jim Biard jbi...@cicsnc.orgmailto:jbi...@cicsnc.org Date: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:42 PM To: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edumailto:cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edumailto:cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Cc: Bedka, Kristopher M. (LARC-E302)[SCIENCE SYSTEMS AND APPLICATIONS, INC] kristopher.m.be...@nasa.govmailto:kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] new standard name requests Hi. Do you need a standard name for the height? Is this considered a scientific quantity in itself, or is it simply the vertical coordinate for the other two quantities? If it is a scientific quantity in its own right, then I’d suggest cloud_radiative_center_height or height_of_the_cloud_radiative_center. The name you proposed is somewhat confusing, as the wording does not clearly identify the height as being the height of the cloud radiative center. Grace and peace, Jim [CICS-NC]http://www.cicsnc.org/Visit us on Facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/cicsncJim Biard Research Scholar Cooperative Institute for Climate and Satellites NChttp://cicsnc.org/ North Carolina State Universityhttp://ncsu.edu/ NOAA's National Climatic Data Centerhttp://ncdc.noaa.gov/ 151 Patton Ave, Asheville, NC 28801 e: jbi...@cicsnc.orgmailto:jbi...@cicsnc.org o: +1 828 271 4900tel:%2B1%20828%20271%204900 On Feb 11, 2014, at 1:07 PM, Bedka, Kristopher M. (LARC-E302)[SCIENCE SYSTEMS AND APPLICATIONS, INC] kristopher.m.be...@nasa.govmailto:kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov wrote: height_at the_cloud_radiative_center ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edumailto:CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata -- Valerie Toner Archive Branch Team STG/ERT, Government Contractor National Climatic Data Center 151 Patton Ave. Asheville, NC 28801-5001 valerie.to...@noaa.govmailto:valerie.to...@noaa.gov 828-257-3016 ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
Re: [CF-metadata] new standard name requests
height_at is fine by me which matches a greater number of the examples you provide. Since I haven't heard any major disagreements with my proposal, what's the next step for getting these names approved by The Grand Council of Naming? = Kristopher Bedka Senior Research Scientist Science Systems Applications, Inc. @ NASA Langley Research Center Climate Science Branch 1 Enterprise Parkway, Suite 200 Hampton, VA 23666 Primary Office Phone: (757) 864-5798 Secondary Office Phone: (757) 951-1920 Fax: (757) 951-1902 kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov = -Original Message- From: Jonathan Gregory j.m.greg...@reading.ac.uk Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 11:47 AM To: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: [CF-metadata]new standard name requests Dear Kris We thought the cloud radiative center terminology was more descriptive, but not as widely used as effective. I agree with that. Cloud radiative center is fine. Since I don't know this subject, my question was just to make sure that it is a term that is in common use (even if not very common). I think it could be height_at or height_of. It seems that we are not consistent about this in standard names, and it would be nice to tidy it up. We have existing names of height_at_cloud_top depth_at_maximum_upward_derivative_of_sea_water_potential_temperature depth_at_shallowest_local_minimum_in_vertical_profile_of_mole_concentration _of_dissolved_molecular_oxygen_in_sea_water depth_of_isosurface_of_sea_water_potential_temperature minimum_depth_of_aragonite|calcite_undersaturation_in_sea_water which are all analogous to your new proposal. Best wishs Jonathan ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
[CF-metadata] new standard name requests
Hello: My group is producing a climate data record (CDR) of satellite-based cloud property retrievals in support of the NOAA CDR program. When we do our retrievals, we do not directly retrieve parameters at cloud top but rather at some depth within the cloud where the infrared radiation is emitted. We call this depth within the cloud the cloud radiative center. I see that NetCDF standard names exist for cloud top parameters, but none for the cloud radiative center. So I propose that the following new standard names be added to the list. Perhaps the wording could be adjusted to some degree, but we have to incorporate the concept of cloud radiative center into the name height_at the_cloud_radiative_center air_temperature_at_the_cloud_radiative_center pressure_at_the_cloud_radiative_center Kris = Kristopher Bedka Senior Research Scientist Science Systems Applications, Inc. @ NASA Langley Research Center Climate Science Branch 1 Enterprise Parkway, Suite 200 Hampton, VA 23666 Primary Office Phone: (757) 864-5798 Secondary Office Phone: (757) 951-1920 Fax: (757) 951-1902 kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov = ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
Re: [CF-metadata] new standard name requests
Yes I do need a standard name for the height because, from what I understand, all NOAA climate data records need a standard name. We produce height, pressure, and air temperature at this cloud radiative center level. One cannot easily translate between height and pressure without ancillary information, so we felt it is important to include both parameters. In addition, specific users (i.e. aviation) may work in height space whereas others may use pressure. height_of_the_cloud_radiative_center would definitely be acceptable. = Kristopher Bedka Senior Research Scientist Science Systems Applications, Inc. @ NASA Langley Research Center Climate Science Branch 1 Enterprise Parkway, Suite 200 Hampton, VA 23666 Primary Office Phone: (757) 864-5798 Secondary Office Phone: (757) 951-1920 Fax: (757) 951-1902 kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov = From: Jim Biard jbi...@cicsnc.orgmailto:jbi...@cicsnc.org Date: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:42 PM To: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edumailto:cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edumailto:cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Cc: Bedka, Kristopher M. (LARC-E302)[SCIENCE SYSTEMS AND APPLICATIONS, INC] kristopher.m.be...@nasa.govmailto:kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] new standard name requests Hi. Do you need a standard name for the height? Is this considered a scientific quantity in itself, or is it simply the vertical coordinate for the other two quantities? If it is a scientific quantity in its own right, then I’d suggest cloud_radiative_center_height or height_of_the_cloud_radiative_center. The name you proposed is somewhat confusing, as the wording does not clearly identify the height as being the height of the cloud radiative center. Grace and peace, Jim [CICS-NC]http://www.cicsnc.org/Visit us on Facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/cicsncJim Biard Research Scholar Cooperative Institute for Climate and Satellites NChttp://cicsnc.org/ North Carolina State Universityhttp://ncsu.edu/ NOAA's National Climatic Data Centerhttp://ncdc.noaa.gov/ 151 Patton Ave, Asheville, NC 28801 e: jbi...@cicsnc.orgmailto:jbi...@cicsnc.org o: +1 828 271 4900 On Feb 11, 2014, at 1:07 PM, Bedka, Kristopher M. (LARC-E302)[SCIENCE SYSTEMS AND APPLICATIONS, INC] kristopher.m.be...@nasa.govmailto:kristopher.m.be...@nasa.gov wrote: height_at the_cloud_radiative_center ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
