RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
Jennifer, I'm unclear about the reference to URL vars, which Fusebox is completely agnostic about. It does view the application as a single entity that responds to different method requests, though. Those method requests come to the fusebox as variables. Is that what you don't like? -Original Message- From: Jennifer Larkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Lets assume that it teaches people incorrect definitions for standard terminology. This is Matt's viewpoint. Since I am familiar with Matt, I can tell you that the guy *does* know what he's talking about. He doesn't always say it in the most understandable or helpful way, nor does he explain things that he thinks you should already know, but he knows what he's talking about. So for the sake of answering your question, let's assume that none of us question the validity of that part of Matt's stance. That does affect it's quality and may affect it's usefulness. You see, when you learn the weird definition, you aren't able to communicate effectively with people who know the standard definition. If two people on the same project are unable to communicate, that does affect productivity, making it less useful than it would be if it used the correct definitions. In this case, knowing the standard definitions might help you become a better programmer, which means that you are being done a disservice by being told the wrong definition. Again, it would therefore be more useful to you if it gave you the correct definition. It certainly doesn't change how FuseBox works, but that doesn't preclude a change in usefulness. And about getting around the url variable problem. The way I described, I don't have to get around the URL variable problem but I still get the usefulness. Creating what I see as a problem and then solving it is not as good as not creating the problem in the first place. At 12:49 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: So whether some people call it a methodology, others a framework, others a standard, are you saying that changes it's usefulness? Steve Matt Liotta wrote: Since I first saw Fusebox, its web site as well as some of its proponents like Steve and Nat have termed it as among other things, an architecture, an application framework, a methodology, and more recently a standard. About the only term remotely related to Fusebox is methodology. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I certainly wouldn't want to do that any more than you would, Matt. I'm not sure what you're referring to, though. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Indeed, more power to you for helping people. But, do you have to use common programming terms incorrectly? Showing people techniques is one thing, but to show a technique and pass it off as something it is not, certainly isn't helpful the person or the community in general. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I agree there's no formal specification, Dave. We're all working developers and though people contribute enormously to spreading Fusebox, we haven't created a formal spec. That may come at some point, but most of our efforts are focused on helping people learn use Fusebox to achieve successful software projects. In response to your question to Steve, Tim Heald asked us to respond to some Fusebox talk on the CF-List. I'm happy to try to help, but I know that some folks have an animus against Fusebox that I can't help with. In short, if I can offer info, I will but I respect your time too much to waste it trying to convert you. Besides, my take on this is that we're all in this together, Fuseboxers and non-Fuseboxers alike. We share a common goal and a common love for creative programming. A lot of people have found Fusebox helpful; some people don't. Let a thousand flowers bloom, as the Chinese say. -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) There are two books coming out on Fusebox that should help to alleviate the lack of available information on exactly what Fusebox is. John Quarto and I wrote one called Discovering Fusebox 3 and Jeff Peters/Nat Papovich wrote one for New Riders. That will
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
Sure, terminology is important but it is far too often treated as the most important thing and it's not. If you said: hand me the hammer vs hand me that tool with the wooden handle and the metal smasher for banging nails I'm human, i'd figure it out. That's fine, conversationally. Scale that up across a larger and larger group, and you'd have bigger and bigger problems. The If nothing else, you'd get really tired of saying hand me that tool with the wooden handle and the metal smasher for banging nails over and over again. The dumb literalists in the group wouldn't understand that you meant to also include the tool with the fiberglass hammer, and the tack driver, and so on. The name hammer is not the important part. My association to your description is the important part, terminology just shortens that description. Some people call Fusebox a methodology because it's a method of building their software, fine. Whereas others call it a framework, because the core files offer a framework for managing their code, that's fine too. No one is going to get a full definition of Fusebox from a single word, so why get so hung up on that? This sounds like the Humpty Dumpty argument - a word means exactly what you want it to mean, no more and no less! The problem here is that, if someone asks you about your methodology, and you tell them about your framework, everyone will be confused, because they are different concepts. If you want a word to mean everything, it'll mean nothing in the end. Fusebox - it's a dessert topping AND a floor wax! I'm hung up on that, as you put it, because in my experience so many CF developers think that as long as they adhere to the Fusebox standard, to the extent that it is a standard, all their design problems are solved, and everything else is a simple matter of coding. Of course, also in my experience, this turns out not to be the case. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
I do have to say this, irregardless of what side you may be on where this is concerned, I have to admire the dedication that all of you have for ColdFusion. Here it is 3 am in the morning, and still going strong. I know I am working on the MM XML Feed thing using CFMX. What, aside from this conversation keeps the rest of you up this evening? Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:23 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Jennifer, I'm unclear about the reference to URL vars, which Fusebox is completely agnostic about. It does view the application as a single entity that responds to different method requests, though. Those method requests come to the fusebox as variables. Is that what you don't like? -Original Message- From: Jennifer Larkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Lets assume that it teaches people incorrect definitions for standard terminology. This is Matt's viewpoint. Since I am familiar with Matt, I can tell you that the guy *does* know what he's talking about. He doesn't always say it in the most understandable or helpful way, nor does he explain things that he thinks you should already know, but he knows what he's talking about. So for the sake of answering your question, let's assume that none of us question the validity of that part of Matt's stance. That does affect it's quality and may affect it's usefulness. You see, when you learn the weird definition, you aren't able to communicate effectively with people who know the standard definition. If two people on the same project are unable to communicate, that does affect productivity, making it less useful than it would be if it used the correct definitions. In this case, knowing the standard definitions might help you become a better programmer, which means that you are being done a disservice by being told the wrong definition. Again, it would therefore be more useful to you if it gave you the correct definition. It certainly doesn't change how FuseBox works, but that doesn't preclude a change in usefulness. And about getting around the url variable problem. The way I described, I don't have to get around the URL variable problem but I still get the usefulness. Creating what I see as a problem and then solving it is not as good as not creating the problem in the first place. At 12:49 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: So whether some people call it a methodology, others a framework, others a standard, are you saying that changes it's usefulness? Steve Matt Liotta wrote: Since I first saw Fusebox, its web site as well as some of its proponents like Steve and Nat have termed it as among other things, an architecture, an application framework, a methodology, and more recently a standard. About the only term remotely related to Fusebox is methodology. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I certainly wouldn't want to do that any more than you would, Matt. I'm not sure what you're referring to, though. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Indeed, more power to you for helping people. But, do you have to use common programming terms incorrectly? Showing people techniques is one thing, but to show a technique and pass it off as something it is not, certainly isn't helpful the person or the community in general. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I agree there's no formal specification, Dave. We're all working developers and though people contribute enormously to spreading Fusebox, we haven't created a formal spec. That may come at some point, but most of our efforts are focused on helping people learn use Fusebox to achieve successful software projects. In response to your question to Steve, Tim Heald asked us to respond to some Fusebox talk on the CF-List. I'm happy to try to help, but I know that some folks have an animus against Fusebox that I can't help with. In short, if I can offer info, I will but I respect your time too much to waste it trying to convert you. Besides, my take on this is that we're all in this together, Fuseboxers and non-Fuseboxers alike. We share a common goal and a common love for creative programming. A lot of people have found Fusebox helpful; some people don't. Let a
Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
I just want to see who gets the last word in :-D Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tim Heald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:25 PM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I do have to say this, irregardless of what side you may be on where this is concerned, I have to admire the dedication that all of you have for ColdFusion. Here it is 3 am in the morning, and still going strong. I know I am working on the MM XML Feed thing using CFMX. What, aside from this conversation keeps the rest of you up this evening? Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:23 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Jennifer, I'm unclear about the reference to URL vars, which Fusebox is completely agnostic about. It does view the application as a single entity that responds to different method requests, though. Those method requests come to the fusebox as variables. Is that what you don't like? -Original Message- From: Jennifer Larkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Lets assume that it teaches people incorrect definitions for standard terminology. This is Matt's viewpoint. Since I am familiar with Matt, I can tell you that the guy *does* know what he's talking about. He doesn't always say it in the most understandable or helpful way, nor does he explain things that he thinks you should already know, but he knows what he's talking about. So for the sake of answering your question, let's assume that none of us question the validity of that part of Matt's stance. That does affect it's quality and may affect it's usefulness. You see, when you learn the weird definition, you aren't able to communicate effectively with people who know the standard definition. If two people on the same project are unable to communicate, that does affect productivity, making it less useful than it would be if it used the correct definitions. In this case, knowing the standard definitions might help you become a better programmer, which means that you are being done a disservice by being told the wrong definition. Again, it would therefore be more useful to you if it gave you the correct definition. It certainly doesn't change how FuseBox works, but that doesn't preclude a change in usefulness. And about getting around the url variable problem. The way I described, I don't have to get around the URL variable problem but I still get the usefulness. Creating what I see as a problem and then solving it is not as good as not creating the problem in the first place. At 12:49 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: So whether some people call it a methodology, others a framework, others a standard, are you saying that changes it's usefulness? Steve Matt Liotta wrote: Since I first saw Fusebox, its web site as well as some of its proponents like Steve and Nat have termed it as among other things, an architecture, an application framework, a methodology, and more recently a standard. About the only term remotely related to Fusebox is methodology. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I certainly wouldn't want to do that any more than you would, Matt. I'm not sure what you're referring to, though. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Indeed, more power to you for helping people. But, do you have to use common programming terms incorrectly? Showing people techniques is one thing, but to show a technique and pass it off as something it is not, certainly isn't helpful the person or the community in general. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I agree there's no formal specification, Dave. We're all working developers and though people contribute enormously to spreading Fusebox, we haven't created a formal spec. That may come at some point, but most of our efforts are focused on helping people learn use Fusebox to achieve successful software projects. In response to your question to Steve, Tim Heald asked us to respond to some Fusebox talk on the CF-List. I'm happy to try to help, but I know that some folks have an animus against Fusebox that I can't help with.
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
Damnit your C level. you can be late for work. I on the other hand have to be in NLT 9 or I get in trouble. Something tells me you'll win :) Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I just want to see who gets the last word in :-D Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tim Heald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:25 PM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I do have to say this, irregardless of what side you may be on where this is concerned, I have to admire the dedication that all of you have for ColdFusion. Here it is 3 am in the morning, and still going strong. I know I am working on the MM XML Feed thing using CFMX. What, aside from this conversation keeps the rest of you up this evening? Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:23 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Jennifer, I'm unclear about the reference to URL vars, which Fusebox is completely agnostic about. It does view the application as a single entity that responds to different method requests, though. Those method requests come to the fusebox as variables. Is that what you don't like? -Original Message- From: Jennifer Larkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Lets assume that it teaches people incorrect definitions for standard terminology. This is Matt's viewpoint. Since I am familiar with Matt, I can tell you that the guy *does* know what he's talking about. He doesn't always say it in the most understandable or helpful way, nor does he explain things that he thinks you should already know, but he knows what he's talking about. So for the sake of answering your question, let's assume that none of us question the validity of that part of Matt's stance. That does affect it's quality and may affect it's usefulness. You see, when you learn the weird definition, you aren't able to communicate effectively with people who know the standard definition. If two people on the same project are unable to communicate, that does affect productivity, making it less useful than it would be if it used the correct definitions. In this case, knowing the standard definitions might help you become a better programmer, which means that you are being done a disservice by being told the wrong definition. Again, it would therefore be more useful to you if it gave you the correct definition. It certainly doesn't change how FuseBox works, but that doesn't preclude a change in usefulness. And about getting around the url variable problem. The way I described, I don't have to get around the URL variable problem but I still get the usefulness. Creating what I see as a problem and then solving it is not as good as not creating the problem in the first place. At 12:49 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: So whether some people call it a methodology, others a framework, others a standard, are you saying that changes it's usefulness? Steve Matt Liotta wrote: Since I first saw Fusebox, its web site as well as some of its proponents like Steve and Nat have termed it as among other things, an architecture, an application framework, a methodology, and more recently a standard. About the only term remotely related to Fusebox is methodology. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I certainly wouldn't want to do that any more than you would, Matt. I'm not sure what you're referring to, though. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Indeed, more power to you for helping people. But, do you have to use common programming terms incorrectly? Showing people techniques is one thing, but to show a technique and pass it off as something it is not, certainly isn't helpful the person or the community in general. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I agree there's no formal specification, Dave. We're all working developers and though people contribute enormously to spreading Fusebox, we haven't created a formal spec. That may come at some point, but most
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
The philosopher/mathemetician Bertrand Russell once told his collaborator, Alfred North Whitehead: This issue cannot be resolved. The problem is that I am simple-minded and you are muddle-headed. Dave, I think what my muddle-headed friend, Steve, means is that the Fusebox community has produced an architectural framework (Fusebox) and a methodology (FLiP) that are quite independent of each other. Because we only recently made the separation of terms (for the excellent reasons you outline), some people say Fusebox when they're talking about FLiP and the other way 'round. -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Sure, terminology is important but it is far too often treated as the most important thing and it's not. If you said: hand me the hammer vs hand me that tool with the wooden handle and the metal smasher for banging nails I'm human, i'd figure it out. That's fine, conversationally. Scale that up across a larger and larger group, and you'd have bigger and bigger problems. The If nothing else, you'd get really tired of saying hand me that tool with the wooden handle and the metal smasher for banging nails over and over again. The dumb literalists in the group wouldn't understand that you meant to also include the tool with the fiberglass hammer, and the tack driver, and so on. The name hammer is not the important part. My association to your description is the important part, terminology just shortens that description. Some people call Fusebox a methodology because it's a method of building their software, fine. Whereas others call it a framework, because the core files offer a framework for managing their code, that's fine too. No one is going to get a full definition of Fusebox from a single word, so why get so hung up on that? This sounds like the Humpty Dumpty argument - a word means exactly what you want it to mean, no more and no less! The problem here is that, if someone asks you about your methodology, and you tell them about your framework, everyone will be confused, because they are different concepts. If you want a word to mean everything, it'll mean nothing in the end. Fusebox - it's a dessert topping AND a floor wax! I'm hung up on that, as you put it, because in my experience so many CF developers think that as long as they adhere to the Fusebox standard, to the extent that it is a standard, all their design problems are solved, and everything else is a simple matter of coding. Of course, also in my experience, this turns out not to be the case. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
ahhh just go get a crisp cold mountain dew and another piece of pizza and you'll be fine Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tim Heald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:35 PM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Damnit your C level. you can be late for work. I on the other hand have to be in NLT 9 or I get in trouble. Something tells me you'll win :) Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I just want to see who gets the last word in :-D Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tim Heald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:25 PM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I do have to say this, irregardless of what side you may be on where this is concerned, I have to admire the dedication that all of you have for ColdFusion. Here it is 3 am in the morning, and still going strong. I know I am working on the MM XML Feed thing using CFMX. What, aside from this conversation keeps the rest of you up this evening? Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:23 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Jennifer, I'm unclear about the reference to URL vars, which Fusebox is completely agnostic about. It does view the application as a single entity that responds to different method requests, though. Those method requests come to the fusebox as variables. Is that what you don't like? -Original Message- From: Jennifer Larkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Lets assume that it teaches people incorrect definitions for standard terminology. This is Matt's viewpoint. Since I am familiar with Matt, I can tell you that the guy *does* know what he's talking about. He doesn't always say it in the most understandable or helpful way, nor does he explain things that he thinks you should already know, but he knows what he's talking about. So for the sake of answering your question, let's assume that none of us question the validity of that part of Matt's stance. That does affect it's quality and may affect it's usefulness. You see, when you learn the weird definition, you aren't able to communicate effectively with people who know the standard definition. If two people on the same project are unable to communicate, that does affect productivity, making it less useful than it would be if it used the correct definitions. In this case, knowing the standard definitions might help you become a better programmer, which means that you are being done a disservice by being told the wrong definition. Again, it would therefore be more useful to you if it gave you the correct definition. It certainly doesn't change how FuseBox works, but that doesn't preclude a change in usefulness. And about getting around the url variable problem. The way I described, I don't have to get around the URL variable problem but I still get the usefulness. Creating what I see as a problem and then solving it is not as good as not creating the problem in the first place. At 12:49 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: So whether some people call it a methodology, others a framework, others a standard, are you saying that changes it's usefulness? Steve Matt Liotta wrote: Since I first saw Fusebox, its web site as well as some of its proponents like Steve and Nat have termed it as among other things, an architecture, an application framework, a methodology, and more recently a standard. About the only term remotely related to Fusebox is methodology. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I certainly wouldn't want to do that any more than you would, Matt. I'm not sure what you're referring to, though. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Indeed, more power to you for helping people. But, do you have to use common programming terms incorrectly? Showing people techniques is one thing, but to show a technique and pass it off as something it is not, certainly isn't helpful the person or the
Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
Well hell let's integrate the two and call it FLiPBox and be done with it!!! :-) Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Hal Helms [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:41 PM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) The philosopher/mathemetician Bertrand Russell once told his collaborator, Alfred North Whitehead: This issue cannot be resolved. The problem is that I am simple-minded and you are muddle-headed. Dave, I think what my muddle-headed friend, Steve, means is that the Fusebox community has produced an architectural framework (Fusebox) and a methodology (FLiP) that are quite independent of each other. Because we only recently made the separation of terms (for the excellent reasons you outline), some people say Fusebox when they're talking about FLiP and the other way 'round. -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Sure, terminology is important but it is far too often treated as the most important thing and it's not. If you said: hand me the hammer vs hand me that tool with the wooden handle and the metal smasher for banging nails I'm human, i'd figure it out. That's fine, conversationally. Scale that up across a larger and larger group, and you'd have bigger and bigger problems. The If nothing else, you'd get really tired of saying hand me that tool with the wooden handle and the metal smasher for banging nails over and over again. The dumb literalists in the group wouldn't understand that you meant to also include the tool with the fiberglass hammer, and the tack driver, and so on. The name hammer is not the important part. My association to your description is the important part, terminology just shortens that description. Some people call Fusebox a methodology because it's a method of building their software, fine. Whereas others call it a framework, because the core files offer a framework for managing their code, that's fine too. No one is going to get a full definition of Fusebox from a single word, so why get so hung up on that? This sounds like the Humpty Dumpty argument - a word means exactly what you want it to mean, no more and no less! The problem here is that, if someone asks you about your methodology, and you tell them about your framework, everyone will be confused, because they are different concepts. If you want a word to mean everything, it'll mean nothing in the end. Fusebox - it's a dessert topping AND a floor wax! I'm hung up on that, as you put it, because in my experience so many CF developers think that as long as they adhere to the Fusebox standard, to the extent that it is a standard, all their design problems are solved, and everything else is a simple matter of coding. Of course, also in my experience, this turns out not to be the case. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
Wow you read me just like that huh? Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:45 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) ahhh just go get a crisp cold mountain dew and another piece of pizza and you'll be fine Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tim Heald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:35 PM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Damnit your C level. you can be late for work. I on the other hand have to be in NLT 9 or I get in trouble. Something tells me you'll win :) Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I just want to see who gets the last word in :-D Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tim Heald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:25 PM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I do have to say this, irregardless of what side you may be on where this is concerned, I have to admire the dedication that all of you have for ColdFusion. Here it is 3 am in the morning, and still going strong. I know I am working on the MM XML Feed thing using CFMX. What, aside from this conversation keeps the rest of you up this evening? Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:23 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Jennifer, I'm unclear about the reference to URL vars, which Fusebox is completely agnostic about. It does view the application as a single entity that responds to different method requests, though. Those method requests come to the fusebox as variables. Is that what you don't like? -Original Message- From: Jennifer Larkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Lets assume that it teaches people incorrect definitions for standard terminology. This is Matt's viewpoint. Since I am familiar with Matt, I can tell you that the guy *does* know what he's talking about. He doesn't always say it in the most understandable or helpful way, nor does he explain things that he thinks you should already know, but he knows what he's talking about. So for the sake of answering your question, let's assume that none of us question the validity of that part of Matt's stance. That does affect it's quality and may affect it's usefulness. You see, when you learn the weird definition, you aren't able to communicate effectively with people who know the standard definition. If two people on the same project are unable to communicate, that does affect productivity, making it less useful than it would be if it used the correct definitions. In this case, knowing the standard definitions might help you become a better programmer, which means that you are being done a disservice by being told the wrong definition. Again, it would therefore be more useful to you if it gave you the correct definition. It certainly doesn't change how FuseBox works, but that doesn't preclude a change in usefulness. And about getting around the url variable problem. The way I described, I don't have to get around the URL variable problem but I still get the usefulness. Creating what I see as a problem and then solving it is not as good as not creating the problem in the first place. At 12:49 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: So whether some people call it a methodology, others a framework, others a standard, are you saying that changes it's usefulness? Steve Matt Liotta wrote: Since I first saw Fusebox, its web site as well as some of its proponents like Steve and Nat have termed it as among other things, an architecture, an application framework, a methodology, and more recently a standard. About the only term remotely related to Fusebox is methodology. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I certainly wouldn't want to do that any more than you would, Matt. I'm not sure what you're referring to, though. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Indeed,
RE: CFMX: Version 1 all over again
Interesting questions. From my perspective (if anyone cares :), the capability to have tag based functions (i.e. being able to return recordsets and such from a function) puts CFMX on par with languages like Visual Basic. The use of CFCs (which are basically functions other applications can call - as I understand them) would be somewhat equivalent to using DLLs to encapsulate common logic. With that in mind, then future development in CF will likely follow a path similar to Visual Basic, C/C++, Perl, etc. That doesn't necessarily help any CF coders who do not have experience in other (desktop and/or client/server) languages. I can see these people having a bit more of a difficult time - and I'm sure a new Fusebox like methodology will come along, or Fusebox will grow to handle this to some degree. For me, the bottom line is that there is very little change in the development process. 1) understand what the application is supposed to do (i.e. a requirements document), 2) analyse the data required, where to get it, how to manage it, 3) prototype an interface, 4) develop an architecture (what are the core functions, where are they placed, how do you call them, etc.), 5) Write the code to make the interface work as expected (which includes all the behind the scenes code. This method is the way I've been taught, and have seen it in action professionally. If followed, the projects flow nicely. If ignored, the projects tend to get delayed and have other issues. And this method applies to C/C++ projects, VB projects, Web projects, or any other development project. So, as I said, I see little in the way of change for me. I just have to spend some time to learn how these new CFMX features work, and when to apply them (which would apply to step 4 above). That said, it'll be interesting to see how things develop. I'll be watching the list, and learning what I can. Shawn Grover -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 8:30 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: CFMX: Version 1 all over again After all the emails about CFMX, I could resist starting another thread. Seriously though, now that CFMX is here, I think it is time to start asking some hard questions about how we develop with CF. While we could debate forever the merits of different application frameworks and methodologies; it is safe to say that most experienced CFers already have decided on one. I know that if I was asked today to build any kind of web application in CF 5, I would know exactly how to attack it. However, I don't think this applies to CFMX. Will old methodologies and application frameworks from CF 5 continue to work on CFMX? Yes, for the most part we some minor changes. Of course that doesn't mean they will behave the same. Do you have techniques that help you build fast performing CF applications? Think those techniques will still work with CFMX? There are all kinds of new things to take into account with CFMX. First, there are some new features like CFCs that fundamentally change the way applications can be put together. Second, some of J2EE's features are exposed to CFMX like JSP:forward and servlet filters. What neat things can you do with those? Finally, existing ideas about performance mostly have to be thrown out and reevaluated. All of the above means it is time to start over as a CF developer and take a hard look at how to build applications with CFMX. Never before has there been such fundamental changes to the platform that affect every aspect of CF development. Don't make the mistake of continuing down the same path you were on with CF 5. Stop and smell the roses and pick the best path. -Matt __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
Yeah well not having Mountain Dew and pizza when programming is like writing a fuseapp and not fusedocingYou might write something that works, but you wont know what it is tomorrow. Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tim Heald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:40 PM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Wow you read me just like that huh? Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:45 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) ahhh just go get a crisp cold mountain dew and another piece of pizza and you'll be fine Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tim Heald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:35 PM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Damnit your C level. you can be late for work. I on the other hand have to be in NLT 9 or I get in trouble. Something tells me you'll win :) Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I just want to see who gets the last word in :-D Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tim Heald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:25 PM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I do have to say this, irregardless of what side you may be on where this is concerned, I have to admire the dedication that all of you have for ColdFusion. Here it is 3 am in the morning, and still going strong. I know I am working on the MM XML Feed thing using CFMX. What, aside from this conversation keeps the rest of you up this evening? Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:23 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Jennifer, I'm unclear about the reference to URL vars, which Fusebox is completely agnostic about. It does view the application as a single entity that responds to different method requests, though. Those method requests come to the fusebox as variables. Is that what you don't like? -Original Message- From: Jennifer Larkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Lets assume that it teaches people incorrect definitions for standard terminology. This is Matt's viewpoint. Since I am familiar with Matt, I can tell you that the guy *does* know what he's talking about. He doesn't always say it in the most understandable or helpful way, nor does he explain things that he thinks you should already know, but he knows what he's talking about. So for the sake of answering your question, let's assume that none of us question the validity of that part of Matt's stance. That does affect it's quality and may affect it's usefulness. You see, when you learn the weird definition, you aren't able to communicate effectively with people who know the standard definition. If two people on the same project are unable to communicate, that does affect productivity, making it less useful than it would be if it used the correct definitions. In this case, knowing the standard definitions might help you become a better programmer, which means that you are being done a disservice by being told the wrong definition. Again, it would therefore be more useful to you if it gave you the correct definition. It certainly doesn't change how FuseBox works, but that doesn't preclude a change in usefulness. And about getting around the url variable problem. The way I described, I don't have to get around the URL variable problem but I still get the usefulness. Creating what I see as a problem and then solving it is not as good as not creating the problem in the first place. At 12:49 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: So whether some people call it a methodology, others a framework, others a standard, are you saying that changes it's usefulness? Steve Matt Liotta wrote: Since I first saw Fusebox, its web site as well as some of its proponents like Steve and Nat have termed it as among other things, an architecture, an application framework, a methodology, and more recently a standard. About the only term remotely related to Fusebox
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
The philosopher/mathemetician Bertrand Russell once told his collaborator, Alfred North Whitehead: This issue cannot be resolved. The problem is that I am simple-minded and you are muddle-headed. This isn't Principia Mathematica we're working on here, you know. Dave, I think what my muddle-headed friend, Steve, means ... Damn. That means I'm stuck with simple-minded. Oh well. It's not the first time. On that note, I'm bowing out of tonight's discussion. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
Yippee I win (umm ok so I get to be the most tired at work tomorrow) Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:55 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) The philosopher/mathemetician Bertrand Russell once told his collaborator, Alfred North Whitehead: This issue cannot be resolved. The problem is that I am simple-minded and you are muddle-headed. This isn't Principia Mathematica we're working on here, you know. Dave, I think what my muddle-headed friend, Steve, means ... Damn. That means I'm stuck with simple-minded. Oh well. It's not the first time. On that note, I'm bowing out of tonight's discussion. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
If i had a nickel every time i got muddle-headed. wait, that would only be one nickel, i've been muddle-headed ever since. Steve Hal Helms wrote: The philosopher/mathemetician Bertrand Russell once told his collaborator, Alfred North Whitehead: This issue cannot be resolved. The problem is that I am simple-minded and you are muddle-headed. Dave, I think what my muddle-headed friend, Steve, means is that the Fusebox community has produced an architectural framework (Fusebox) and a methodology (FLiP) that are quite independent of each other. Because we only recently made the separation of terms (for the excellent reasons you outline), some people say Fusebox when they're talking about FLiP and the other way 'round. -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Sure, terminology is important but it is far too often treated as the most important thing and it's not. If you said: hand me the hammer vs hand me that tool with the wooden handle and the metal smasher for banging nails I'm human, i'd figure it out. That's fine, conversationally. Scale that up across a larger and larger group, and you'd have bigger and bigger problems. The If nothing else, you'd get really tired of saying hand me that tool with the wooden handle and the metal smasher for banging nails over and over again. The dumb literalists in the group wouldn't understand that you meant to also include the tool with the fiberglass hammer, and the tack driver, and so on. The name hammer is not the important part. My association to your description is the important part, terminology just shortens that description. Some people call Fusebox a methodology because it's a method of building their software, fine. Whereas others call it a framework, because the core files offer a framework for managing their code, that's fine too. No one is going to get a full definition of Fusebox from a single word, so why get so hung up on that? This sounds like the Humpty Dumpty argument - a word means exactly what you want it to mean, no more and no less! The problem here is that, if someone asks you about your methodology, and you tell them about your framework, everyone will be confused, because they are different concepts. If you want a word to mean everything, it'll mean nothing in the end. Fusebox - it's a dessert topping AND a floor wax! I'm hung up on that, as you put it, because in my experience so many CF developers think that as long as they adhere to the Fusebox standard, to the extent that it is a standard, all their design problems are solved, and everything else is a simple matter of coding. Of course, also in my experience, this turns out not to be the case. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
To be honest, it's been quite some time since I've looked at the docs, so I can't say with conviction what the stance is on URL variables. However, it seems that the method requests that you refer to need to be passed in some way and that way usually seems to be through a URL variable. It *is* these variables that I dislike. In order for a user to link to a page in the site, the method must be in the URL (as opposed to a session, form, client or other variable). Otherwise, the default method would be selected and the user would not be linking to the part of the site that is expected. The user's bookmarks would be invalid and any links the user sends in email to his/her/its friends would also be invalid. Avoiding that requires that the method be in the URL. So you say that FuseBox is agnostic about the use of URL variables, but I don't understand how that could be true. It seems to require them, regardless of the format in which the variables appear. Obviously, you know more about FuseBox than I do, so please correct me if I am wrong about that. I dislike URL variables in general, although I think they do have a place. I certainly wouldn't want to build a catalog of 4000 products without them. I just think that telling a site what to do isn't the place for URL variables. I wouldn't even say that I stick to that as a rule, since I have built data-entry systems that use URL variables to determine whether a person is editing something or making something new. However, the requested functionality of the applications required that. As I've said before, I don't think that a single solution can solve every problem. The solution is dictated by the problem itself. At 02:23 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: Jennifer, I'm unclear about the reference to URL vars, which Fusebox is completely agnostic about. It does view the application as a single entity that responds to different method requests, though. Those method requests come to the fusebox as variables. Is that what you don't like? -Original Message- From: Jennifer Larkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Lets assume that it teaches people incorrect definitions for standard terminology. This is Matt's viewpoint. Since I am familiar with Matt, I can tell you that the guy *does* know what he's talking about. He doesn't always say it in the most understandable or helpful way, nor does he explain things that he thinks you should already know, but he knows what he's talking about. So for the sake of answering your question, let's assume that none of us question the validity of that part of Matt's stance. That does affect it's quality and may affect it's usefulness. You see, when you learn the weird definition, you aren't able to communicate effectively with people who know the standard definition. If two people on the same project are unable to communicate, that does affect productivity, making it less useful than it would be if it used the correct definitions. In this case, knowing the standard definitions might help you become a better programmer, which means that you are being done a disservice by being told the wrong definition. Again, it would therefore be more useful to you if it gave you the correct definition. It certainly doesn't change how FuseBox works, but that doesn't preclude a change in usefulness. And about getting around the url variable problem. The way I described, I don't have to get around the URL variable problem but I still get the usefulness. Creating what I see as a problem and then solving it is not as good as not creating the problem in the first place. At 12:49 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: So whether some people call it a methodology, others a framework, others a standard, are you saying that changes it's usefulness? Steve Matt Liotta wrote: Since I first saw Fusebox, its web site as well as some of its proponents like Steve and Nat have termed it as among other things, an architecture, an application framework, a methodology, and more recently a standard. About the only term remotely related to Fusebox is methodology. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I certainly wouldn't want to do that any more than you would, Matt. I'm not sure what you're referring to, though. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Indeed, more power to you for helping people. But, do you have to use common programming terms incorrectly? Showing people techniques is one thing, but to show a technique and pass it off as something it is not, certainly isn't helpful the person or
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
Living in California, where it's 11:50. Although I do have to get up awfully early to take public transportation to Berkeley, so I should be going to bed soon. At 02:25 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: I do have to say this, irregardless of what side you may be on where this is concerned, I have to admire the dedication that all of you have for ColdFusion. Here it is 3 am in the morning, and still going strong. I know I am working on the MM XML Feed thing using CFMX. What, aside from this conversation keeps the rest of you up this evening? Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:23 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Jennifer, I'm unclear about the reference to URL vars, which Fusebox is completely agnostic about. It does view the application as a single entity that responds to different method requests, though. Those method requests come to the fusebox as variables. Is that what you don't like? -Original Message- From: Jennifer Larkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Lets assume that it teaches people incorrect definitions for standard terminology. This is Matt's viewpoint. Since I am familiar with Matt, I can tell you that the guy *does* know what he's talking about. He doesn't always say it in the most understandable or helpful way, nor does he explain things that he thinks you should already know, but he knows what he's talking about. So for the sake of answering your question, let's assume that none of us question the validity of that part of Matt's stance. That does affect it's quality and may affect it's usefulness. You see, when you learn the weird definition, you aren't able to communicate effectively with people who know the standard definition. If two people on the same project are unable to communicate, that does affect productivity, making it less useful than it would be if it used the correct definitions. In this case, knowing the standard definitions might help you become a better programmer, which means that you are being done a disservice by being told the wrong definition. Again, it would therefore be more useful to you if it gave you the correct definition. It certainly doesn't change how FuseBox works, but that doesn't preclude a change in usefulness. And about getting around the url variable problem. The way I described, I don't have to get around the URL variable problem but I still get the usefulness. Creating what I see as a problem and then solving it is not as good as not creating the problem in the first place. At 12:49 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: So whether some people call it a methodology, others a framework, others a standard, are you saying that changes it's usefulness? Steve Matt Liotta wrote: Since I first saw Fusebox, its web site as well as some of its proponents like Steve and Nat have termed it as among other things, an architecture, an application framework, a methodology, and more recently a standard. About the only term remotely related to Fusebox is methodology. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I certainly wouldn't want to do that any more than you would, Matt. I'm not sure what you're referring to, though. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Indeed, more power to you for helping people. But, do you have to use common programming terms incorrectly? Showing people techniques is one thing, but to show a technique and pass it off as something it is not, certainly isn't helpful the person or the community in general. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I agree there's no formal specification, Dave. We're all working developers and though people contribute enormously to spreading Fusebox, we haven't created a formal spec. That may come at some point, but most of our efforts are focused on helping people learn use Fusebox to achieve successful software projects. In response to your question to Steve, Tim Heald asked us to respond to some Fusebox talk on the CF-List. I'm happy to try to help, but I know that some folks have an animus against Fusebox that I can't help with. In short, if I can offer info, I will but I respect your time too much to waste it trying to
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
That's OK. If you're muddle-headed, I must be simple minded. -Original Message- From: Steve Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:55 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) If i had a nickel every time i got muddle-headed. wait, that would only be one nickel, i've been muddle-headed ever since. Steve Hal Helms wrote: The philosopher/mathemetician Bertrand Russell once told his collaborator, Alfred North Whitehead: This issue cannot be resolved. The problem is that I am simple-minded and you are muddle-headed. Dave, I think what my muddle-headed friend, Steve, means is that the Fusebox community has produced an architectural framework (Fusebox) and a methodology (FLiP) that are quite independent of each other. Because we only recently made the separation of terms (for the excellent reasons you outline), some people say Fusebox when they're talking about FLiP and the other way 'round. -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Sure, terminology is important but it is far too often treated as the most important thing and it's not. If you said: hand me the hammer vs hand me that tool with the wooden handle and the metal smasher for banging nails I'm human, i'd figure it out. That's fine, conversationally. Scale that up across a larger and larger group, and you'd have bigger and bigger problems. The If nothing else, you'd get really tired of saying hand me that tool with the wooden handle and the metal smasher for banging nails over and over again. The dumb literalists in the group wouldn't understand that you meant to also include the tool with the fiberglass hammer, and the tack driver, and so on. The name hammer is not the important part. My association to your description is the important part, terminology just shortens that description. Some people call Fusebox a methodology because it's a method of building their software, fine. Whereas others call it a framework, because the core files offer a framework for managing their code, that's fine too. No one is going to get a full definition of Fusebox from a single word, so why get so hung up on that? This sounds like the Humpty Dumpty argument - a word means exactly what you want it to mean, no more and no less! The problem here is that, if someone asks you about your methodology, and you tell them about your framework, everyone will be confused, because they are different concepts. If you want a word to mean everything, it'll mean nothing in the end. Fusebox - it's a dessert topping AND a floor wax! I'm hung up on that, as you put it, because in my experience so many CF developers think that as long as they adhere to the Fusebox standard, to the extent that it is a standard, all their design problems are solved, and everything else is a simple matter of coding. Of course, also in my experience, this turns out not to be the case. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
Berkeley... Is it true that most people from that school is flower sniffing tree huggers? I heard a saying once LSD and Linux BSD both came from Berkeley, this cannot be a coincidence Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Jennifer Larkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:50 PM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Living in California, where it's 11:50. Although I do have to get up awfully early to take public transportation to Berkeley, so I should be going to bed soon. At 02:25 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: I do have to say this, irregardless of what side you may be on where this is concerned, I have to admire the dedication that all of you have for ColdFusion. Here it is 3 am in the morning, and still going strong. I know I am working on the MM XML Feed thing using CFMX. What, aside from this conversation keeps the rest of you up this evening? Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:23 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Jennifer, I'm unclear about the reference to URL vars, which Fusebox is completely agnostic about. It does view the application as a single entity that responds to different method requests, though. Those method requests come to the fusebox as variables. Is that what you don't like? -Original Message- From: Jennifer Larkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Lets assume that it teaches people incorrect definitions for standard terminology. This is Matt's viewpoint. Since I am familiar with Matt, I can tell you that the guy *does* know what he's talking about. He doesn't always say it in the most understandable or helpful way, nor does he explain things that he thinks you should already know, but he knows what he's talking about. So for the sake of answering your question, let's assume that none of us question the validity of that part of Matt's stance. That does affect it's quality and may affect it's usefulness. You see, when you learn the weird definition, you aren't able to communicate effectively with people who know the standard definition. If two people on the same project are unable to communicate, that does affect productivity, making it less useful than it would be if it used the correct definitions. In this case, knowing the standard definitions might help you become a better programmer, which means that you are being done a disservice by being told the wrong definition. Again, it would therefore be more useful to you if it gave you the correct definition. It certainly doesn't change how FuseBox works, but that doesn't preclude a change in usefulness. And about getting around the url variable problem. The way I described, I don't have to get around the URL variable problem but I still get the usefulness. Creating what I see as a problem and then solving it is not as good as not creating the problem in the first place. At 12:49 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: So whether some people call it a methodology, others a framework, others a standard, are you saying that changes it's usefulness? Steve Matt Liotta wrote: Since I first saw Fusebox, its web site as well as some of its proponents like Steve and Nat have termed it as among other things, an architecture, an application framework, a methodology, and more recently a standard. About the only term remotely related to Fusebox is methodology. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I certainly wouldn't want to do that any more than you would, Matt. I'm not sure what you're referring to, though. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Indeed, more power to you for helping people. But, do you have to use common programming terms incorrectly? Showing people techniques is one thing, but to show a technique and pass it off as something it is not, certainly isn't helpful the person or the community in general. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I agree there's no formal specification, Dave. We're all working developers and though people contribute enormously to spreading Fusebox, we haven't created a formal spec. That may
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
You're quite right that a fuseaction variable must be passed back to the fusebox. It can be a form variable (I've done apps without any URL variables because the client didn't like them.) But I think your objection isn't the URL var, per se, but the idea of sending a variable back and in that you're exactly right: one of the key FB ideas is that the app is not so much a collection of code files (though on one level, it is just that, of course) but rather a single entity that responds to messages and executes methods. -Original Message- From: Jennifer Larkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:49 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) To be honest, it's been quite some time since I've looked at the docs, so I can't say with conviction what the stance is on URL variables. However, it seems that the method requests that you refer to need to be passed in some way and that way usually seems to be through a URL variable. It *is* these variables that I dislike. In order for a user to link to a page in the site, the method must be in the URL (as opposed to a session, form, client or other variable). Otherwise, the default method would be selected and the user would not be linking to the part of the site that is expected. The user's bookmarks would be invalid and any links the user sends in email to his/her/its friends would also be invalid. Avoiding that requires that the method be in the URL. So you say that FuseBox is agnostic about the use of URL variables, but I don't understand how that could be true. It seems to require them, regardless of the format in which the variables appear. Obviously, you know more about FuseBox than I do, so please correct me if I am wrong about that. I dislike URL variables in general, although I think they do have a place. I certainly wouldn't want to build a catalog of 4000 products without them. I just think that telling a site what to do isn't the place for URL variables. I wouldn't even say that I stick to that as a rule, since I have built data-entry systems that use URL variables to determine whether a person is editing something or making something new. However, the requested functionality of the applications required that. As I've said before, I don't think that a single solution can solve every problem. The solution is dictated by the problem itself. At 02:23 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: Jennifer, I'm unclear about the reference to URL vars, which Fusebox is completely agnostic about. It does view the application as a single entity that responds to different method requests, though. Those method requests come to the fusebox as variables. Is that what you don't like? -Original Message- From: Jennifer Larkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Lets assume that it teaches people incorrect definitions for standard terminology. This is Matt's viewpoint. Since I am familiar with Matt, I can tell you that the guy *does* know what he's talking about. He doesn't always say it in the most understandable or helpful way, nor does he explain things that he thinks you should already know, but he knows what he's talking about. So for the sake of answering your question, let's assume that none of us question the validity of that part of Matt's stance. That does affect it's quality and may affect it's usefulness. You see, when you learn the weird definition, you aren't able to communicate effectively with people who know the standard definition. If two people on the same project are unable to communicate, that does affect productivity, making it less useful than it would be if it used the correct definitions. In this case, knowing the standard definitions might help you become a better programmer, which means that you are being done a disservice by being told the wrong definition. Again, it would therefore be more useful to you if it gave you the correct definition. It certainly doesn't change how FuseBox works, but that doesn't preclude a change in usefulness. And about getting around the url variable problem. The way I described, I don't have to get around the URL variable problem but I still get the usefulness. Creating what I see as a problem and then solving it is not as good as not creating the problem in the first place. At 12:49 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: So whether some people call it a methodology, others a framework, others a standard, are you saying that changes it's usefulness? Steve Matt Liotta wrote: Since I first saw Fusebox, its web site as well as some of its proponents like Steve and Nat have termed it as among other things, an architecture, an application framework, a methodology, and more recently a standard. About the only term remotely related to Fusebox is methodology. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
Someone on another list I subscribe to has as his signature saying: The only good things to ever come from Berkley were BSD Unix and LSD Haven't been there so I wouldn't know if anything else good came from there :) Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 3:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Berkeley... Is it true that most people from that school is flower sniffing tree huggers? I heard a saying once LSD and Linux BSD both came from Berkeley, this cannot be a coincidence Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Jennifer Larkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:50 PM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Living in California, where it's 11:50. Although I do have to get up awfully early to take public transportation to Berkeley, so I should be going to bed soon. At 02:25 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: I do have to say this, irregardless of what side you may be on where this is concerned, I have to admire the dedication that all of you have for ColdFusion. Here it is 3 am in the morning, and still going strong. I know I am working on the MM XML Feed thing using CFMX. What, aside from this conversation keeps the rest of you up this evening? Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:23 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Jennifer, I'm unclear about the reference to URL vars, which Fusebox is completely agnostic about. It does view the application as a single entity that responds to different method requests, though. Those method requests come to the fusebox as variables. Is that what you don't like? -Original Message- From: Jennifer Larkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Lets assume that it teaches people incorrect definitions for standard terminology. This is Matt's viewpoint. Since I am familiar with Matt, I can tell you that the guy *does* know what he's talking about. He doesn't always say it in the most understandable or helpful way, nor does he explain things that he thinks you should already know, but he knows what he's talking about. So for the sake of answering your question, let's assume that none of us question the validity of that part of Matt's stance. That does affect it's quality and may affect it's usefulness. You see, when you learn the weird definition, you aren't able to communicate effectively with people who know the standard definition. If two people on the same project are unable to communicate, that does affect productivity, making it less useful than it would be if it used the correct definitions. In this case, knowing the standard definitions might help you become a better programmer, which means that you are being done a disservice by being told the wrong definition. Again, it would therefore be more useful to you if it gave you the correct definition. It certainly doesn't change how FuseBox works, but that doesn't preclude a change in usefulness. And about getting around the url variable problem. The way I described, I don't have to get around the URL variable problem but I still get the usefulness. Creating what I see as a problem and then solving it is not as good as not creating the problem in the first place. At 12:49 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: So whether some people call it a methodology, others a framework, others a standard, are you saying that changes it's usefulness? Steve Matt Liotta wrote: Since I first saw Fusebox, its web site as well as some of its proponents like Steve and Nat have termed it as among other things, an architecture, an application framework, a methodology, and more recently a standard. About the only term remotely related to Fusebox is methodology. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I certainly wouldn't want to do that any more than you would, Matt. I'm not sure what you're referring to, though. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Indeed, more power to you for helping people. But, do you have to use common programming terms incorrectly? Showing people techniques is one thing, but to show a technique and pass it off as something it is not, certainly isn't helpful the person or the
Re: CFMX OS X [rant]
On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 06:06 PM, Dave Watts wrote: BBBTW WebObjects, the first App Server on the web, was originally developed by Next Be careful with this revisionist history! I'm not sure what it means to be an app server, and WebObjects has been around for a long, long time, but there were CGI applications before then, I think. I don't think I would consider a CGI application to be analogous to a web App server... You could explain the difference much better than I, but here's a couple of good references: http://serverwatch.internet.com/articles/webapp/webapp_2.html http://serverwatch.internet.com/appservers.html I was surprised to learn that webobjects was the first web app server, but here are some interesting references (a little dated like everything else on the web): Tidbits http://serverwatch.internet.com/reviews/app-webobjects.html (go up in the path to see reviews of other systems) ServerWatch http://serverwatch.internet.com/reviews/app-webobjects.html Owendo - An interesting comparison of the majors including CF http://a784.g.akamai.net/7/784/51/d6f991d0a5bcde/www.apple.com/webobjects/ pdf/owendo_report.pdf Apple http://www.apple.com/webobjects/ Here's an interesting quote: WebObjects is no longer alone in the application server marketplace. There are now numerous players, and they differ primarily in how they separate the three fundamentals [user interface, program logic, data access] above. It's instructional to study the different models: you can see a clear evolution of design. What I find most impressive is that all these models are slowly moving towards a common design: the design of WebObjects. That last sentence is loaded! For my own edification, I downloaded the OSX Developer version (free Evaluation) including OpenBase RDBMS. Honestly, it is not as easy to learn as CF (No Bible by Forta, et al). But it is a more complex [rich] solution (object oriented), involving separation of presentation (HTML with WebObject Tags*), programming logic (Java or whatever) and database abstraction into enterprise (Java) objects**. * The webobject tags are references to external Java object properties and methods... if you will, calls to the program logic rather than the program logic itself. ** Database rows are treated as instances of Java-like objects... the application programmer is normally shielded from SQL, caching, transaction commitment/backout, locking, stored procedures, mfgr specific db implementation, etc. A GUI tool and/or wizard is used to map a database to these enterprise objects. The Enterprise Objects are external to the program logic and are shared by all programs... they need be changed only when the db schema or implementation changes and need not require changes to program or presentation. There is a thorough tutorial, although prematurely technical (IMO). Within a few minutes, I was able to use a wizard to generate a set of db maintenance programs for a web app (ala DBBlocks. Shortly thereafter, I was able to write simple Java web apps including db update, etc.. The IDE is similar to Tango by Pervasive... but much richer and more intuitive. The IDE also supports other languages/logistics from OSA scripting, Java Client, Java standalone (Swing GUI); as well as OS X Native apps in several languages with aqua GUI. I would like to see CFMX, FlashMX and JRun supported in this environment... IMO they would quickly become the web development tools of choice for Mac web developers... and just maybe some non-Mac developers too. Some subtleties are: There is an omnipresent, Web Server, App server(s), complete Java environment, mail server, database server, yadda, yadda, yadda... you could easily develop many flavors of CF Apps, Standalone, Thin client, rich client, staged client... HTH Dick __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
Yeah all I know is what I see in the news...HELL NO WE WONT GO Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tim Heald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:03 AM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Someone on another list I subscribe to has as his signature saying: The only good things to ever come from Berkley were BSD Unix and LSD Haven't been there so I wouldn't know if anything else good came from there :) Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 3:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Berkeley... Is it true that most people from that school is flower sniffing tree huggers? I heard a saying once LSD and Linux BSD both came from Berkeley, this cannot be a coincidence Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Jennifer Larkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:50 PM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Living in California, where it's 11:50. Although I do have to get up awfully early to take public transportation to Berkeley, so I should be going to bed soon. At 02:25 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: I do have to say this, irregardless of what side you may be on where this is concerned, I have to admire the dedication that all of you have for ColdFusion. Here it is 3 am in the morning, and still going strong. I know I am working on the MM XML Feed thing using CFMX. What, aside from this conversation keeps the rest of you up this evening? Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:23 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Jennifer, I'm unclear about the reference to URL vars, which Fusebox is completely agnostic about. It does view the application as a single entity that responds to different method requests, though. Those method requests come to the fusebox as variables. Is that what you don't like? -Original Message- From: Jennifer Larkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Lets assume that it teaches people incorrect definitions for standard terminology. This is Matt's viewpoint. Since I am familiar with Matt, I can tell you that the guy *does* know what he's talking about. He doesn't always say it in the most understandable or helpful way, nor does he explain things that he thinks you should already know, but he knows what he's talking about. So for the sake of answering your question, let's assume that none of us question the validity of that part of Matt's stance. That does affect it's quality and may affect it's usefulness. You see, when you learn the weird definition, you aren't able to communicate effectively with people who know the standard definition. If two people on the same project are unable to communicate, that does affect productivity, making it less useful than it would be if it used the correct definitions. In this case, knowing the standard definitions might help you become a better programmer, which means that you are being done a disservice by being told the wrong definition. Again, it would therefore be more useful to you if it gave you the correct definition. It certainly doesn't change how FuseBox works, but that doesn't preclude a change in usefulness. And about getting around the url variable problem. The way I described, I don't have to get around the URL variable problem but I still get the usefulness. Creating what I see as a problem and then solving it is not as good as not creating the problem in the first place. At 12:49 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: So whether some people call it a methodology, others a framework, others a standard, are you saying that changes it's usefulness? Steve Matt Liotta wrote: Since I first saw Fusebox, its web site as well as some of its proponents like Steve and Nat have termed it as among other things, an architecture, an application framework, a methodology, and more recently a standard. About the only term remotely related to Fusebox is methodology. -Matt -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I certainly wouldn't want to do that any more than you would, Matt. I'm not sure what you're referring to, though. -Original Message-
Re: CFMX OS X [rant]
On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 12:04 AM, Dick Applebaum wrote: Oops, the Tidbits reference is: http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=06465 (I just get so excited) Dick __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
If there's anyone you can imagine sliding down the Batpole, wouldn't it be Steve Nelson? Dave Watts maybe? __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
CFX_Image Fun
Has anyone had success with anti-aliasing text when using CFX_Image? I am using CF 5 Pro on Windows 2000 Server. TIA! SCOTT VAN VLIET BRD.WRKS INTERACTIVE T: 714.469.6805 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
If there's anyone you can imagine sliding down the Batpole, wouldn't it be Steve Nelson? Dave Watts maybe? only if he was wearing a black beret at a rakish tilt holding tightly to a blue colored bottle of one kind or other...;-) __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CFMX OS X [rant]
On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 01:39 PM, Vernon Viehe wrote: That's the impression I have as well (note, I'm not saying anything official, it' just the impression I'm under) Since it runs on top of a J2EE server, it theoretically should work, but it won't be supported by MM Tech Support. But, if someone tries it, please let me know how it goes! Vernon Viehe Community Manager Macromedia, Inc. Actually I was able to get JRun to run fine on OSX... No luck with CFMX, tho. To be fair, here's the rest of the story. I did the install on RH Linux 7.2 (emulation), and then copied the files to OS X. I am new to Linux and had difficulty with the CFMX install. I got more (and better) assistance from MM than I expected for an unsupported platform. Because of other commitments, I was unable to pursue the effort for the last 10 days. I actually had better success on OSX that on RH. I think with more time (and knowledge) It can be made to work. Dick __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
Having just spent 2 hours catching up on this thread, I'm getting tired, and need sleep. My take on this thread: Those developers who have experience in structured programming and/or OOP, can relate some of the abstract concepts and methods from these disciplines to web development. Those developers who only have web development experience, will not understand these concepts and methods at first glance. Or second and thrid glances. I agree with Dave and Matt that the terms used to describe these concepts and methods need to be clear - and they are to those with the greater experience. That doesn't mean they are clear to those who do not have the experience - but the onus is on them to learn more about the terms, concepts, methods. Afterall, how can you put an abstract idea into 100 words or less, when it takes a definition AND seeing that definition in action (sometimes lots of times) to truly understand? That said, Dave nailed it on the head - if you feel a tool makes you more productive, then use it. Fusebox is probably a good intro to using a structure for a web app. But Fusebox devotees must keep in mind that there is SO much more out there when it comes to developing. And the more experience developers (meaning more experienced with other types of coding, rather than just web apps), must keep in mind that there is no single method to solve a problem. I myself fall into that trap too often - how do I do this? simple, do this, this and this without thinking about the number of other methods to solve the issue. However, this is mostly based on my experience, and knowing the problems/concerns with the other methods. But, I'm open minded, show me a better way, and WHY it's a better way and I'll do it that way. cf_disclaimer I don't feel my own experience is all that great, but do know that I have more in some areas than most of my coworkers - web development is one of those areas /cf_disclaimer All that said, I've looked into Fusebox. The most I can see, and I'm sure I'm missing lots, is that FB is basically one file that acts as a switchboard for the app - directing actions to the proper files. I can handle this directing in other manners (such as submitting a form directly to my action page, rather than the index.cfm with the right action specified), and manage the file/directory structure, includes, and redirections of my apps without FB per se. (Actually, FB came close to matching how I built my directory structure in the first place - but that's experience and common sense kicking in.) To an experienced developer, the code would be straight forward (and well commented), to someone who cut their teeth on FB, they may have difficulty following the flow of logic. If you are lucky enough to work with a team of experienced developers, then FB probably won't be used. If not, then FB might be beneficial. Each developer or team must decide for themselves which tool works best for them personally, AND for the problem/application at hand. My thoughts, not yours. And now my bed is beckoning me. Shawn Grover -Original Message- From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Yeah all I know is what I see in the news...HELL NO WE WONT GO Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tim Heald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:03 AM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Someone on another list I subscribe to has as his signature saying: The only good things to ever come from Berkley were BSD Unix and LSD Haven't been there so I wouldn't know if anything else good came from there :) Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 3:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Berkeley... Is it true that most people from that school is flower sniffing tree huggers? I heard a saying once LSD and Linux BSD both came from Berkeley, this cannot be a coincidence Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Jennifer Larkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:50 PM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Living in California, where it's 11:50. Although I do have to get up awfully early to take public transportation to Berkeley, so I should be going to bed soon. At 02:25 AM 4/30/02 -0400, you wrote: I do have to say this, irregardless of what side you may be on where this is concerned, I have to admire the dedication that all of you have for ColdFusion. Here it is 3 am in the morning, and still going strong. I know I am working on the MM XML Feed thing using CFMX. What, aside from this conversation keeps the rest of you up this evening? Tim
RE: CFMX OS X [rant]
On 4/29/02, Vernon Viehe penned: Meanwhile, you can use a remote testing server (DWMX makes this easy!), so Mac folks aren't blocked from CF development, they just won't have it all in one box. I've been developing in CF for 3 years now and can happily say I have NEVER had to type a line of CF code on a Windoze PC. :) Oops. I take that back. I sat at a Win PC for 3 days during the Fast Track course. -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CFMX OS X [rant]
On 4/29/02, Neil Clark - =TMM= penned: I see it this way, why pay over 3K for a machine which uses an OS I can get for cheap or even free - thatÂ’s the killer.! tongue firmly in cheek Last I looked, my 15,000.00 Dell Server would have cost 799.00 less had I gotten it with Linux as opposed to NT. So if you can give me the name of your vendor that's doling out the free hardware along with the free OS, I'd love to do business with them. :-D /tongue firmly in cheek -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
I don't think it's quite like that, Shawn. I learned programming working in Smalltalk. The first database I ever used was an OO one. I don't think it's a lack of experience in OOP or an inability to grasp abstract concepts and methods that leads me to the conclusion that Fusebox works very well. That's why I encourage others to try Fusebox out for themselves. Come to your own conclusions and then you won't have to listen to me saying it's great! or someone else saying it sucks! -Original Message- From: Shawn Grover [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 4:11 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Having just spent 2 hours catching up on this thread, I'm getting tired, and need sleep. My take on this thread: Those developers who have experience in structured programming and/or OOP, can relate some of the abstract concepts and methods from these disciplines to web development. Those developers who only have web development experience, will not understand these concepts and methods at first glance. Or second and thrid glances. I agree with Dave and Matt that the terms used to describe these concepts and methods need to be clear - and they are to those with the greater experience. That doesn't mean they are clear to those who do not have the experience - but the onus is on them to learn more about the terms, concepts, methods. Afterall, how can you put an abstract idea into 100 words or less, when it takes a definition AND seeing that definition in action (sometimes lots of times) to truly understand? That said, Dave nailed it on the head - if you feel a tool makes you more productive, then use it. Fusebox is probably a good intro to using a structure for a web app. But Fusebox devotees must keep in mind that there is SO much more out there when it comes to developing. And the more experience developers (meaning more experienced with other types of coding, rather than just web apps), must keep in mind that there is no single method to solve a problem. I myself fall into that trap too often - how do I do this? simple, do this, this and this without thinking about the number of other methods to solve the issue. However, this is mostly based on my experience, and knowing the problems/concerns with the other methods. But, I'm open minded, show me a better way, and WHY it's a better way and I'll do it that way. cf_disclaimer I don't feel my own experience is all that great, but do know that I have more in some areas than most of my coworkers - web development is one of those areas /cf_disclaimer All that said, I've looked into Fusebox. The most I can see, and I'm sure I'm missing lots, is that FB is basically one file that acts as a switchboard for the app - directing actions to the proper files. I can handle this directing in other manners (such as submitting a form directly to my action page, rather than the index.cfm with the right action specified), and manage the file/directory structure, includes, and redirections of my apps without FB per se. (Actually, FB came close to matching how I built my directory structure in the first place - but that's experience and common sense kicking in.) To an experienced developer, the code would be straight forward (and well commented), to someone who cut their teeth on FB, they may have difficulty following the flow of logic. If you are lucky enough to work with a team of experienced developers, then FB probably won't be used. If not, then FB might be beneficial. Each developer or team must decide for themselves which tool works best for them personally, AND for the problem/application at hand. My thoughts, not yours. And now my bed is beckoning me. Shawn Grover -Original Message- From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Yeah all I know is what I see in the news...HELL NO WE WONT GO Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tim Heald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:03 AM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Someone on another list I subscribe to has as his signature saying: The only good things to ever come from Berkley were BSD Unix and LSD Haven't been there so I wouldn't know if anything else good came from there :) Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 3:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Berkeley... Is it true that most people from that school is flower sniffing tree huggers? I heard a saying once LSD and Linux BSD both came from Berkeley, this cannot be a coincidence Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Jennifer Larkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday,
RE: CFMX performance (was RE: CF MX)
Crap, can't people just answer a question on this list without flaming? I was just being honest, in a slightly sarcastic way... You have to admit though, NOTHING is essential - if you're happy with your current version, then stick with it, but you've got to remember that your competitors will be upgrading, and if you don't, then you could be left behind when you're going for a new job If you have your own servers, then it's down to you to front the cost of the upgrade (or pass it along to the clients), so it's your own choice If you stay static, you will never have the functionality that others do - but the point I was trying to make is that if you're only going on ESSENTIAL upgrades, then you'll never upgrade anything, and since you can work with whatever you're used to, then be happy and stay there Philip Arnold Technical Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited Switchboard: +44 (0)20 8680 8099 Fax: +44 (0)20 8686 7911 www.aspmedia.co.uk www.aspevents.net An ISO9001 registered company. ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Inheritance : was I like CFMX
Okay, Did we get any more on this? We jumped to Fusebox and seemed to forget about this... I see Matts argument and I also see Pete/Jeff's exmaples but as you put it Jeff is not really practical. IMO, CFC's are a great OOP addition to ColdFusion; sure they may not fit into your Dictionary definition of OOP and they donÂ’t support polymorphism, but they are still an OOP concept - yes? Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: SQL Question
the equivalent of Now() in SQL server is Getdate() -Original Message- From: Dina Hess [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 April 2002 21:46 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SQL Question oops...wrong reference. if anyone cares, source is appendix e in 'mastering coldfusion 4.5' and the authors say the now() function is supported in access, sql server and odbc supported dbs (not oracle...my mistake). at any rate, i tried now() with an msde db and it failed...so it seems, costas, that you are absolutely right. how could i have doubted you? :) ~ dina - Original Message - From: Dina Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 3:09 PM Subject: Re: SQL Question Uhm... That's okay if it's microsoft Access... Generally NOW() is not an sql server function. i'm sure the authors of 'the complete reference: sql' would be surprised to hear that since *they* say the sql now() function is available in access, sql server, and oracle. :) _ _ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Inheritance : was I like CFMX
Hi Neil, IMO, CFC's are a great OOP addition to ColdFusion; sure they may not fit into your Dictionary definition of OOP and they don't support polymorphism, but they are still an OOP concept - yes? Yes. CFCs are the best thing since.. well, UDFs. Yes, they support inheritance. OOP is not (supposed to be) a dogma, it's a loose bunch of mostly good ideas which tend to go well together. I would describe any language feature which helps you to encapsulate data and logic as an OOP feature. You know, imo this OO thing is a bit like the Fusebox argument. There are good ideas, and there are ways of implementing good ideas, and there are language/methodology features that help you to implement good ideas. It's usually a sign of inexperience to think that one particular way is the only way. And btw Matt, MM do give everything J2EE has to offer (pretty much). It's called JRun. I've been working with it for about 6 months and I love it. However, I can program about 3 times faster in CFML. CFCs have widened that gap. Nick __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Longitudes and Latitudes (AGAIN)
Greetings, This is an old question brought to the front again by myself, there is a similar query to this on the FAQ's finding the distance between two zip codes, I have been using a formula similar to this to work out the difference between longitudes and latitudes this is what I have been doing, !---i GET THE CURRENT LAT AND LONS OF ALL VEHICLE POSITIONS AND PUT THEM IN AN ARRAY||--- !---THEN RUN THE MIN MAX FUNCTIONS||--- !---get min max Lon and Lat||--- CFSET maxLatitude=arrayMax(latAy) CFSET minLatitude=arrayMin(latAy) CFSET maxLongitude=arrayMax(longAy) CFSET minLongitude=arrayMin(longAy) !---get the center point between all four points||--- CFSET latMidPoint=(maxLatitude-minLatitude) CFSET latMidPoint=(ATTRIBUTES.latMidPoint/2) CFSET latMidPoint=(ATTRIBUTES.latMidPoint+minLatitude) CFSET lonMidPoint=(maxLongitude-minLongitude) CFSET lonMidPoint=(ATTRIBUTES.lonMidPoint/2) CFSET lonMidPoint=(ATTRIBUTES.lonMidPoint+minLongitude) !---The Formula||--- !---get the distance between the greatest points||--- CFSET D=(1.852*60)*(ACOS(SIN(minLatitude)*(SIN(maxLatitude)+(COS(minLatitude)*(COS (maxLatitude)*(COS(minLongitude-maxLongitude))) !---I end up witht the three variables I need to render vehicle data on a map now||--- x=lonMidPoint y=latMidPoint zoom=D I am not sure if this distance is coming back in Kilometers or meters, also the greater the distance from a to b, the greater the size of the arc, I don't think the arc is being accounted and I'm convinced its calculating the distance from point a to point b in a straight line. This formula has been working fine when vehicles have been traveling around the uk, the arc isn't that great, but recently some customers vehicles have started to travel to Europe mainly southern France and Germany, if a customer checks out all his vehicles (some vehicles being in the UK and now some in Europe) the arc is larger and zoom is not correct, the center point is always correct, but the distance between the greater points is not. The vehicles cannot be seen on a map, unless I actually allow the user to multiply the zoom by doing this, CFPARAM NAME=ATTRIBUTES.Multiply DEFAULT=0 CFSET ATTRIBUTES.D=ROUND(((ATTRIBUTES.D*3.5)*ATTRIBUTES.Multiply)) This is purely a fix, I have tried several other formula's to achieve the desired results but they have not. I have asked the ordinance survey, no help, also several other vendors including GPS satellite vendors, no help, I am sorry about this OT post but if anyone knows a formula that is totally accurate for calculating the actual distance between point a and point b taking into consideration the arc fully, I would really love to here from you. RESPECTFULLY, J __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Inheritance : was I like CFMX
Hey Nick, UDF's were a good addition, but CFC's I think are a far greater addition to the arsenal not least because of FRS...!! Remember that Component inheritance lets you import component methods and properties from one component into another component. In addition, inherited components also share any component methods or properties that they inherit from other components. And also : sic ColdFusion components encapsulate application functionality and provide a standard interface for client access to that functionality. Clients access component functionality by invoking methods on components. Components support a variety of client interfaces, including web pages, Flash movies, web services, and other ColdFusion components and pages. FRS is going to change the way web apps are built :-) Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
OT: wall
Can anyone see what is wrong with this wml code: cfcontent type=text/vnd.wap.wml ?xml version=1.0? !DOCTYPE wml PUBLIC -//WAPFORUM//DTD WML 1.1//EN http://www.wapform.org/DTD/wml_2.1.xml; wml !-- WML Headers -- head cfinclude template=no_cache.cfm /head card id=worldcupfantasyfooty do type=prev label=Back prev/ /do onevent type=onenterforward refresh setvar name=team1 value=1 / /refresh /onevent p team1: $(team1) /p /card /wml It doesn't like the onevent bit - says the child tag is incorrect (the refresh). If I comment out the onevent stuff the variable is outputted correctly. -Original Message- From: Neil Clark - =TMM= [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 April 2002 11:53 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Inheritance : was I like CFMX Hey Nick, UDF's were a good addition, but CFC's I think are a far greater addition to the arsenal not least because of FRS...!! Remember that Component inheritance lets you import component methods and properties from one component into another component. In addition, inherited components also share any component methods or properties that they inherit from other components. And also : sic ColdFusion components encapsulate application functionality and provide a standard interface for client access to that functionality. Clients access component functionality by invoking methods on components. Components support a variety of client interfaces, including web pages, Flash movies, web services, and other ColdFusion components and pages. FRS is going to change the way web apps are built :-) Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Longitudes and Latitudes (AGAIN)
looks maybe like your distance is in radians? are your lat/long coordinates in radians as well? for that formula i think you need radians: radians=(degrees+minutes/60)*pI/180 great CIRCLE distance forumla: d=(acos(sin(lat1)*sin(lat2)+cos(lat1)*cos(lat2)*cos(lon1-lon2)))*180*60/pi where lat long are in radians, should you give nautical miles. D=(1.852*60)*(ACOS(SIN(minLatitude)*(SIN(maxLatitude)+(COS(minLatitude)*(COS (maxLatitude)*(COS(minLongitude-maxLongitude))) not sure of your GIS technology but most (that i know) would render geographic data based on a bounding box (lower left, upper right). actually seems kinda hard to query for spatial features like this (center point distance)...though i guess it might be building the bounding box from that onfo on the fly ll=xMid-d, yMid-d, ur=xMid+d, yMid+d. if that's the case i guess the distance needs to be in radians (or arcseconds or whatever it will swallow). make any sense? __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Longitudes and Latitudes (AGAIN)
make any sense? Well honestly, yes and no, or co-ordinates are coming back in degrees that is positive, so if this is the case radians=(degrees+minutes/60)*pI/180 minutes I'm not sure which may to identify this, J -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:43 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Longitudes and Latitudes (AGAIN) looks maybe like your distance is in radians? are your lat/long coordinates in radians as well? for that formula i think you need radians: radians=(degrees+minutes/60)*pI/180 great CIRCLE distance forumla: d=(acos(sin(lat1)*sin(lat2)+cos(lat1)*cos(lat2)*cos(lon1-lon2)))*180*60/pi where lat long are in radians, should you give nautical miles. D=(1.852*60)*(ACOS(SIN(minLatitude)*(SIN(maxLatitude)+(COS(minLatitude)*(COS (maxLatitude)*(COS(minLongitude-maxLongitude))) not sure of your GIS technology but most (that i know) would render geographic data based on a bounding box (lower left, upper right). actually seems kinda hard to query for spatial features like this (center point distance)...though i guess it might be building the bounding box from that onfo on the fly ll=xMid-d, yMid-d, ur=xMid+d, yMid+d. if that's the case i guess the distance needs to be in radians (or arcseconds or whatever it will swallow). make any sense? __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Longitudes and Latitudes (AGAIN)
Well honestly, yes and no, or co-ordinates are coming back in degrees that is positive, decimal degrees? 33.56. or degrees minutes seconds? 33 18 10 with some kind of delimiter? __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: I like CFMX
Err fine, then just don't use the feature I guess. To me, and to most developers, it will be inheritance and they will enjoy the feature. I can understand that you think the inheritance we have isn't perfect - fine - tell us how we can imporve it for next release, but to say we don't have inheritance is just plain silly. === Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 6:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I like CFMX Sure it's fair. The programming world has an understanding of what words like inheritance mean. In fact they teach in CS courses. What isn't fair is MM making up a new definition of the word. This will lead to CF developers having the wrong understanding of inheritance. -Matt -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 2:31 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I like CFMX Then let's say they dont support a definition of inheritance then. CFC can inherit, but w/ certain conditions. It's not fair to say they _dont_ support it. == = Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 5:23 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I like CFMX No, CFCs don't really support inheritance since they don't inherit private methods and properties. -Matt -Original Message- From: Pete Freitag [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 1:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I like CFMX Actually CFMX CFC's do support inheritance. And CFC's are pretty close to Object Oriented, missing just a few nice features, I think in time we will see CFC's to have more of these features. __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: I like CFMX
Inheritance,encaptualtion etc...are defined concepts of OO design, of which CF aint. I appreciate what you are saying as when I developed using VB C++ programmers used to argue tht VB was a pile of rubbish as it didn't support true inheritance (which it doesn't). But then you could develop about 20 times more quickly in it than you could in C so who cares!..Same argument goes with CF - learn to live with it's shortcomings and once you realise what it's supposed to do you'll see that it does it extremely well. -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 April 2002 13:20 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I like CFMX Err fine, then just don't use the feature I guess. To me, and to most developers, it will be inheritance and they will enjoy the feature. I can understand that you think the inheritance we have isn't perfect - fine - tell us how we can imporve it for next release, but to say we don't have inheritance is just plain silly. === Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 6:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I like CFMX Sure it's fair. The programming world has an understanding of what words like inheritance mean. In fact they teach in CS courses. What isn't fair is MM making up a new definition of the word. This will lead to CF developers having the wrong understanding of inheritance. -Matt -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 2:31 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I like CFMX Then let's say they dont support a definition of inheritance then. CFC can inherit, but w/ certain conditions. It's not fair to say they _dont_ support it. == = Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 5:23 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I like CFMX No, CFCs don't really support inheritance since they don't inherit private methods and properties. -Matt -Original Message- From: Pete Freitag [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 1:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I like CFMX Actually CFMX CFC's do support inheritance. And CFC's are pretty close to Object Oriented, missing just a few nice features, I think in time we will see CFC's to have more of these features. __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: I like CFMX
Eh? Inheritance and Encapsulation (I think thatÂ’s what meant :-) are in CFC's AFAIK. what isn't is Polymorphism - and that also is on the OOP list of features. Thanks! Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Longitudes and Latitudes (AGAIN)
They are coming back decimal degrees 33.3646548394367336 -56.346777393 and so on, I think I see whay your getting at, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:18 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Longitudes and Latitudes (AGAIN) Well honestly, yes and no, or co-ordinates are coming back in degrees that is positive, decimal degrees? 33.56. or degrees minutes seconds? 33 18 10 with some kind of delimiter? __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: I like CFMX
Or should I say : are a feature of CFC's sorry for the confusion Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Rotate CF log files automatically?
Ah, that's a nice simple way to do it. Thanks. Chris Norloff -- Original Message -- from: Robert Forsyth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:09:14 -0400 Just rename the file with CFFILE... Cold Fusion will create new ones for you automatically. Be sure to trap for errors incase you can't get access to the file at that second. HTH Robert -Original Message- From: Chris Norloff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Rotate CF log files automatically? What's a good tool to use to rotate CF files automatically? Say, archive the log every week and place a blank file to collect the next week's data. I checked the Developers' Exchange and didn't find a whole lot. thanks, Chris Norloff __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Dollarformat -vs- Numberformat
Okay, this may have been asked a thousand times but I'm going to make it 1001. When comparing the Numberformat and Decimalformat funcitons (for CF 4.x) what is the difference when it comes to rounding and numeric accuracy? Here's the problem: I recently added a summary report to a financial calculation page. The page has been using NumberFormat(tot_tot+misc_tot,9-$999,999,999.99) for several years (the application has been in live use since around 1998). The report that I built is using DollarFormat instead. I was told that several of the totals are coming up fine in a few cases, off by a penny in most cases and off by two pennies in more than a few cases as well. First of all, am I correct in thinking that this is a display issue? Also, which one is more accurate? Thanks! Hatton Humphrey __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: I like CFMX
Yup - but the point is whether it is true inheritance as defined by OO concepts or, as true OO programmers (of which I aint) say, poor mans inheritance as I was constantly accused of using back in the days of VB 5/6. Now I have not used VB.Net (nor CFMX!) so don't know how they deals with Inheritance -Original Message- From: Neil Clark - =TMM= [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 April 2002 13:24 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I like CFMX Eh? Inheritance and Encapsulation (I think that's what meant :-) are in CFC's AFAIK. what isn't is Polymorphism - and that also is on the OOP list of features. Thanks! Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CFMX/.NET - buzzword bingo
Ben, et al... That's great, makes total sense. So why is .NET less expensive for an Enterprise implementation (2-4 CPUs) than J2EE? -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:45 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CFMX/.NET - buzzword bingo Which is why it says supports the .NET framework and not is a .NET whatever. Actually, FYI, a while back I asked a .NET Product Manager at Microsoft What must CF do to integrate with .NET?. His response, consume .NET services. CFMX does that. It also lets you create services for .NET (easier than you could in any .NET language), it runs on .NET servers, and can also invoke objects running in the CLR (even though it does not run in the CLR itself). So yep, definitely supports the .NET framework. :-) --- Ben -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:41 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: CFMX/.NET - buzzword bingo Is the architecture of CFMX going to be totally rewritten? I keep hearing the words supports the .NET Framework being thrown around. Where? How? Just b/c it runs on MS servers, and has support for SOAP/Web Services, doesn't make it integrated with the .NET framework. (CFMX in no way supports the CLR) --- Billy Cravens __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Longitudes and Latitudes (AGAIN)
33.3646548394367336 -56.346777393 and so on, convert to radians then before using that forumla, also double check if the backend's looking for meters or radians or what for that distance value. __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: I like CFMX
It all depends on what you/coders determine as true inheritance. Sure CFC's provide a concept for inheritance in ColdFusion, but just because it doesnÂ’t fit into a dictionaty concept, does mean it is isnt inheritance : as Ray stated : to say that CFC's do not have inheritance is just plain silly. CFC's in my eyes and testing peform exactly on the basis of OOP : e.g. Object birthing (a .cfm page), a Class (calling say, a create new object method), and a SuperClass (the class which can provide default variables which can be overidden or appended to as instance variables). The example I posted yesterday shows just that. Just because it doesnÂ’t fit into the Java model of OOP, doesn't mean to say that it aint OOP. Sure it can be seen as more Object Based Development, but inheritance and encapsulation are still present. Remember : Just because you drive a crappy old banger, doesnÂ’t mean it aint a car. its all in the perception. Thanks Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: I like CFMX
Remember : Just because you drive a crappy old banger, doesn't mean it aint a car - agree totally but if you drive a motorbike although it still gets you to where you want to go it aint a car. I know I keep harping on about VB but it's the ony arena where I've implemented OO stuff. I seem to remember if I dust the cobwebs out of my memory that in creating an instance of an object I was requied to implement all of the properties and methods exposed by that interface - which was the main beef of C/Java programmers as this wasn't inheritance as they saw it. Now I could still get to the same end as they could but I got there on a bike whilst they were driving a car. Appoplogies for probably the worst analogy ever! -Original Message- From: Neil Clark - =TMM= [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 April 2002 13:41 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I like CFMX It all depends on what you/coders determine as true inheritance. Sure CFC's provide a concept for inheritance in ColdFusion, but just because it doesn't fit into a dictionaty concept, does mean it is isnt inheritance : as Ray stated : to say that CFC's do not have inheritance is just plain silly. CFC's in my eyes and testing peform exactly on the basis of OOP : e.g. Object birthing (a .cfm page), a Class (calling say, a create new object method), and a SuperClass (the class which can provide default variables which can be overidden or appended to as instance variables). The example I posted yesterday shows just that. Just because it doesn't fit into the Java model of OOP, doesn't mean to say that it aint OOP. Sure it can be seen as more Object Based Development, but inheritance and encapsulation are still present. Remember : Just because you drive a crappy old banger, doesn't mean it aint a car. its all in the perception. Thanks Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
DWMX First Impressions
In 5 minutes of DWMX use I have found the following annoyances: * Outright crashed when I closed a document that I edited without saving * No right-click close in coder view * No file recent files * No custom toolbars/buttons (boo! hiss!) I find it disconcerting that I was able to crash the app so easily by doing such a relatively simple thing...especially since it's in RC mode and I'm sure no further rounds of bug fixing are planned. However, the core CF toolbars are there, so I guess that's a start. I'll plod on and try using it as my primary editor over the next couple of days, maybe I'll have better luck. Anyone else found any serious annoyances? Pete __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: I like CFMX
Hee hee, my analogy was worse ... I sure didnÂ’t mean to say/think that ColdFusion MX was an old banger! I am not a VB man, but VB in my eyes is also inheritance.. no question. Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Longitudes and Latitudes (AGAIN)
Respectfully, J -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:37 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Longitudes and Latitudes (AGAIN) 33.3646548394367336 -56.346777393 and so on, convert to radians then before using that forumla, also double check if the backend's looking for meters or radians or what for that distance value. __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: DWMX First Impressions
Hi Pete * No right-click close in coder view if you right-click on the Document Tab at the bottom of the screen there is a Close. * No file recent files Recent Files are Lised in the File Menu, just before Exit. * No custom toolbars/buttons (boo! hiss!) erm, you can extend DWMX as far as you want, when you want! As for the crash, see if you can reproduce it... HTH Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: I like CFMX
:) - it's you and me against the C++/Java boys (and girls) then! -Original Message- From: Neil Clark - =TMM= [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 April 2002 13:56 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I like CFMX Hee hee, my analogy was worse ... I sure didn't mean to say/think that ColdFusion MX was an old banger! I am not a VB man, but VB in my eyes is also inheritance.. no question. Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: DWMX First Impressions
I think DWMX is a vast improvement over UD but in my opinion it is still not a replacement for studio. A few annoyances to add to yours are: *No CF Reference materials for functions *Can't make it insert Tabs as spaces *No File Save As in coder view *You can't right click on a file in the site file list and choose Insert As Link to insert it as a link on the current page. Garrett -Original Message- From: Pete Ruckelshaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:59 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: DWMX First Impressions In 5 minutes of DWMX use I have found the following annoyances: * Outright crashed when I closed a document that I edited without saving * No right-click close in coder view * No file recent files * No custom toolbars/buttons (boo! hiss!) I find it disconcerting that I was able to crash the app so easily by doing such a relatively simple thing...especially since it's in RC mode and I'm sure no further rounds of bug fixing are planned. However, the core CF toolbars are there, so I guess that's a start. I'll plod on and try using it as my primary editor over the next couple of days, maybe I'll have better luck. Anyone else found any serious annoyances? Pete __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: DWMX First Impressions
I also miss my CTRL-M to check tags and my CTRL-R for Replace and CTRL-SHIFT-R For mass replace and no SAVE on the main layout area. Forced to use CTRL-S -Original Message- From: Neil Clark - =TMM= [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: DWMX First Impressions Hi Pete * No right-click close in coder view if you right-click on the Document Tab at the bottom of the screen there is a Close. * No file recent files Recent Files are Lised in the File Menu, just before Exit. * No custom toolbars/buttons (boo! hiss!) erm, you can extend DWMX as far as you want, when you want! As for the crash, see if you can reproduce it... HTH Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: DWMX First Impressions
and no SAVE on the main layout area. Forced to use CTRL-S Right click on the document toolbar and select standard. (Note: you have to right click over one of the buttons, show code view for example, if you right click in a blank space no menu pops up. -Original Message- From: Larry Juncker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 8:12 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: DWMX First Impressions I also miss my CTRL-M to check tags and my CTRL-R for Replace and CTRL-SHIFT-R For mass replace and no SAVE on the main layout area. Forced to use CTRL-S __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Preventing IE 6 from submitting a form on click of Enter
I have tried some code on IRT .org that is supposed to prevent IE from submitting a form on hitting enter, however it is not working. Can someone shoot me a snippet of code to prevent IE from submitting on click of enter. Thanks in advance Larry Juncker Senior Cold Fusion Developer Heartland Communications Group, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and/or personal. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient (or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us at the email listed above. __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: DWMX First Impressions
Here are some answers to your Q's No CF Reference materials for functions *** Its in there but there is no right click insert expression - you can use my DWMX extension for that. Can't make it insert Tabs as spaces *** Edit Preferences Code Format to insert tabs as spaces No File Save As in coder view *** If you right click on the File Tabe in DWMX view, you get Close, Close All, Save Save As! You can't right click on a file in the site file list and choose Insert As Link to insert it as a link on the current page. *** Use the Properties Panel, if you click the little round target icon next to the href field, you can drag over to a file and link it that way! HTH Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: DWMX First Impressions
I also miss my CTRL-M to check tags set this up as a new Command (or something similar) and my CTRL-R for Replace use CTRL-F for a combined Find Replace Window and CTRL-SHIFT-R For mass replace Ibid. and no SAVE on the main layout area. Forced to use CTRL-S See Garrett's mail! Thanks! Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: DWMX First Impressions
Yep - Your right finally found it... -Original Message- From: Hrncir, Garrett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 8:17 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: DWMX First Impressions and no SAVE on the main layout area. Forced to use CTRL-S Right click on the document toolbar and select standard. (Note: you have to right click over one of the buttons, show code view for example, if you right click in a blank space no menu pops up. -Original Message- From: Larry Juncker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 8:12 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: DWMX First Impressions I also miss my CTRL-M to check tags and my CTRL-R for Replace and CTRL-SHIFT-R For mass replace and no SAVE on the main layout area. Forced to use CTRL-S __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Group Loop Help!
ok this is going to sound long i have a phone list [we all do!] i can group by studio display in one column employee phone info such or if i write it a different way i can show all office info LOOPed into 3 columns. But i cant seem to do both! I would like to use a group by studio like i have, but display employee info top, down the right top, down again in 3 culms i have tried a few different ways just keep getting deeper... Any help would be wonderful! Thanks -paul cfquery name=Employees datasource=RPH SELECT tblEmployee.Lastname + ' ' + tblEmployee.Firstname as Fullname, tblEmployee.EMPLOYEE_ID, tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployee.StudioID, tblEmployee.StatusID, tblStudio.StudioID, tblStudio.OfficeID, tblStudio.StudioName, tblOffice.OfficeID, tblOffice.City, tblPhone.PhoneNumb, tblPhone.PhoneTypeID, tblFloor.floor FROM tblEmployee, tblStudio, tblOffice, tblPhone, tblFloor WHERE tblEmployee.studioid = tblStudio.studioid AND tblOffice.OfficeID = '#FORM.OfficeID#' AND tblPhone.EmpResID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID AND tblPhone.PhoneTypeID = '1' AND tblEmployee.StudioID in (#FORM.StudioID#) AND tblEmployee.FloorID = tblFloor.floorid ORDER BY tblStudio.StudioName, Fullname, tblEmployee.EMPLOYEE_ID; /cfquery html head titleNBBJ Intranet / The Firm / People / Phone List/title script language='javascript' src='/include/js.js' type='text/javascript'/script cfoutputscript language='javascript' src='/include/layers_#curSect#.js' type='text/javascript'/script/cfoutput /head body bgcolor='#ff' topmargin='0' leftmargin='0' marginheight='0' marginwidth='0' onmouseover='hideAll();' onmouseout='hideAll();' table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0 CFOUTPUT QUERY=Employees GROUP=StudioName tr valign=top align=center bgcolor=##908e8e td span class='subwhite'Office - Studio/spanbr img src='/images/shim.gif' width='' height='1' border='0' alt='' /td tdspan class='subwhite'#Employees.City# - a href=../../../thefirm/people/pictureboard.cfm?StudioID=#StudioID# style=color: White; #Trim(Employees.StudioName)# /A/spanbr /td /tr !--- Begin :: This is the section i would like to loop into 3 columns --- tr valign=middle cfoutput group=fullname tdB#Employees.Fullname#/td tdcfoutput#Trim(Employees.PhoneNumb)#br/cfoutput/td /tr !--- End :: This is the section i would like to loop into 3 columns --- /cfoutput /cfoutput /table /body /html __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Computer Programming Concepts (was: I like CFMX)
As another point of blatant self-promotion... ColdFusion 5: A Beginner's Guide was written with a concentration on computer programming concepts. It covered many topics that were covered in my CS101 and CS102 classes way back when. ( With some database design thrown in, which was a more high-level course ). At 01:30 AM 4/30/2002 -0400, you wrote: Matt, you don't have to be rude when you don't know the answer. Just say so, that's no big deal. Since you're hung up on buzzwords Tim isn't clear on, explain your interpretation of those buzzwords for CF development, that's all he wants, not the text book version. I haven't been on this list for a long time, but it is still a CF list, right? Steve Matt Liotta wrote: I'm sorry, but you are going to have to RTFM. I am not here to teach you how to program or basic CS concepts. If you don't understand those terms, that is fine, it won't stop you from being a CF developer. However, it will stop you from contributing to this debate. -Matt -Original Message- From: Tim Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Ok Matt, For the beginner my friend, in layman's terms. Seriously. I am paying attention, and I am never so close minded that I cannot be swayed, but truth be told I heard a bunch of buzzwords, and some stuff that I should probably know more about. Tim Heald ACP/CCFD Application Development www.schoollink.net -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:27 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Ok, off the top of my head... An architecture would provide: * context for partitioning application at a macro level into tiers * transparent redundancy of tiers * interfaces specific to each tier for application frameworks to implement * additional stuff depending on application An application framework would provide: * abstract implementation of architecture interfaces * library of concrete architecture interface implementations * context for partitioning tier into components * component infrastructure * additional stuff depending on application -Matt -Original Message- From: Steve Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:13 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Sure, list it all. Steve Matt Liotta wrote: What do you want? Want me to list everything I expect in an architecture and application framework to show that Fusebox provides known of them? You don't really need me for that. Go to Google and do a search on software architecture and application frameworks. You will find an amazing amount of infrastructure that Fusebox is no where near providing. You may even discover the true definitions for some of the terms Fusebox has bastardized. -Matt -Original Message- From: Ken Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 8:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) So do tell, in detail if you please, what you find objectionable about it. I don't use Fusebox because it does nothing for me. Uh huh. Most enlightening detail there Matt. __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: DWMX First Impressions
I was initially frustrated that F1 did not bring up CF tag references (one of my favorite CFS features). I found out this morning that it's shift f1 in DWMX. Plus, I can view the reference and code at the same time. Well done! I'm probably going to find that there are a lot of cool features... just not where I initially expect them to be. :) So far, I like what I see. Eric __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Re: Mail Merge Options
You may want to look into something like Active PDF. You can definitely make reports with that and they would be portable to any OS that supports acrobat. HTH, Howie - Original Message - From: Ian Skinner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:26 PM Subject: Re: Re: Mail Merge Options No, the letters do not have to be Word Format, we can choose any format the fulfills the requirement. The requirement is a batch of highly formatted form letters output to a printer local to the client machine. This formatting will need to include page margins, borders, page breaks, font style and size and other features. All of which I do not know how to include in a straight plain text or HTML formatted document, particularly page breaks to separate one form letter from the other. We are open to any suggestion. Thanks Again. Ian Skinner (916) 338-0728 ilsweb+AEA-pacbell.net www.ilsweb.com Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:20:31 -0400 From: +ACI-Howie Hamlin+ACI- +ADw-howie+AEA-coolfusion.com+AD4- Subject: Re: Mail Merge Options Message-ID: +ADw-0a4401c1efc3+ACQ-b1768400+ACQ-0201010a+AEA-hoot.com+AD4- Do the letters have to be in Word format or could they be plain text or HTML as well? Regards, -- Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. - www.CoolFusion.com - 631-737-4668 x101 inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - The Award-winning, Intelligent Mail Server +AD4APgA+- Find out how iMS Stacks up to the competition: http://www.coolfusion.com/imssecomparison.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
CFCs ( Was: Re: Inheritance : was I like CFMX)
Is there a place we can ( publically) submit enhancement requests for CFMX? If so, then everyone go and submit these: A) cfproperty needs to be documented somewhere. It seems to have no other purpose than providing documentation to the metadata ( when viewing a cfc in the browser ) B) Can we have a component scope? C) Can we have a package scope? ( On a completely unrelated note, how can I view / set / change a classpath in Windows 2000? ) -- Jeffry Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Need a Web Developer? Contact me! Weird E-mail problems Use use mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] as backup AIM: Reboog711 | Fax / Phone: 860-223-7946 -- My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com My Band: http://www.farcryfly.com -- Will I be on the streets tomorrow, Will I have to beg and Borrow Will I have to go back to the job I left behind? __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Query Problem
Can someone tell my why I am getting this error. If I take the WHERE line out it returns all the data just fine Thanks Ron ODBC Error Code = 07001 (Wrong number of parameters) [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1. Hint: The cause of this error is usually that your query contains a reference to a field which does not exist. You should verify that the fields included in your query exist and that you have specified their names correctly. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFQUERY), occupying document position (2:1) to (5:70) in the template file e:\ns-server\docs\webapps\MFG\Probe\CardTrack\Card_Info\ParamOutput.cfm. cfquery name=pcards dbtype = dynamic ConnectString=DRIVER=Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb); DBQ=\\bodata.micron.com\webapps\MFG\Probe\prbcardtrack\prbcards.mdb; SELECT Card_Type FROM tblCardData WHERE Card_Type=Parametric; /cfquery __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CFMX/.NET - buzzword bingo
So why is .NET less expensive for an Enterprise implementation (2-4 CPUs) than J2EE? I think you're misreading the quote: ...ColdFusion MX Enterprise Edition is $4999 per server, with upgrades at $2499. The ColdFusion MX Server line is specifically architected to integrate with the Microsoft .NET Framework. The ColdFusion MX for J2EE Application Servers product line is priced at $3399 per processor. There is no .NET-specific version. They all require J2EE, whether you get the Enterprise Edition with its bundled copy of JRun, or you get a version for a specific J2EE server. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: DWMX First Impressions
Another nice one, Ctrl-Space in the editor window lists all functions, and if you are in the middle of typing one it'll position the list to what you have typed. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Carlisle, Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 9:31 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: DWMX First Impressions I was initially frustrated that F1 did not bring up CF tag references (one of my favorite CFS features). I found out this morning that it's shift f1 in DWMX. Plus, I can view the reference and code at the same time. Well done! I'm probably going to find that there are a lot of cool features... just not where I initially expect them to be. :) So far, I like what I see. Eric __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Query Problem
Try using single quotes around 'Parametric'. -Original Message- From: ronmyers [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 April 2002 14:41 To: CF-Talk Subject: Query Problem Can someone tell my why I am getting this error. If I take the WHERE line out it returns all the data just fine Thanks Ron ODBC Error Code = 07001 (Wrong number of parameters) [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1. Hint: The cause of this error is usually that your query contains a reference to a field which does not exist. You should verify that the fields included in your query exist and that you have specified their names correctly. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFQUERY), occupying document position (2:1) to (5:70) in the template file e:\ns-server\docs\webapps\MFG\Probe\CardTrack\Card_Info\ParamOutput.cfm. cfquery name=pcards dbtype = dynamic ConnectString=DRIVER=Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb); DBQ=\\bodata.micron.com\webapps\MFG\Probe\prbcardtrack\prbcards.mdb; SELECT Card_Type FROM tblCardData WHERE Card_Type=Parametric; /cfquery __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Preventing IE 6 from submitting a form on click of Enter
Simplest thing to do is remove the submit button, and replace it with an input type=button that has an onclick to submit the form, something like. input type=button value=Submit onclick=javascript:this.value='Please Wait';this.disabled=1;document.forms[0].submit() -Original Message- From: Larry Juncker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:18 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Preventing IE 6 from submitting a form on click of Enter I have tried some code on IRT .org that is supposed to prevent IE from submitting a form on hitting enter, however it is not working. Can someone shoot me a snippet of code to prevent IE from submitting on click of enter. Thanks in advance Larry Juncker Senior Cold Fusion Developer Heartland Communications Group, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and/or personal. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient (or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us at the email listed above. __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: DWMX First Impressions
So far, I like just about everything, The things I use are easy to get too, and it makes it easier to do more than one thing at a time, like look at the docs and the code. One problem I am having, Dreamweaver is taking a lot of CPU, it stands at around 20% when idle. This is something they must fix. At 09:45 AM 4/30/2002 -0400, you wrote: Another nice one, Ctrl-Space in the editor window lists all functions, and if you are in the middle of typing one it'll position the list to what you have typed. --- Ben __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Query Problem
also, make sure Card_Type is really the name of the field (check spelling) in the table tblCardData. this is the error i always see when i misspell a field name. not that it happens often... :) v/r, Jeff -Original Message- From: Paul Bowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 9:52 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Query Problem Try using single quotes around 'Parametric'. -Original Message- From: ronmyers [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 April 2002 14:41 To: CF-Talk Subject: Query Problem Can someone tell my why I am getting this error. If I take the WHERE line out it returns all the data just fine Thanks Ron ODBC Error Code = 07001 (Wrong number of parameters) [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1. Hint: The cause of this error is usually that your query contains a reference to a field which does not exist. You should verify that the fields included in your query exist and that you have specified their names correctly. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFQUERY), occupying document position (2:1) to (5:70) in the template file e:\ns-server\docs\webapps\MFG\Probe\CardTrack\Card_Info\ParamOutput.cfm. cfquery name=pcards dbtype = dynamic ConnectString=DRIVER=Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb); DBQ=\\bodata.micron.com\webapps\MFG\Probe\prbcardtrack\prbcards.mdb; SELECT Card_Type FROM tblCardData WHERE Card_Type=Parametric; /cfquery __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Struct in an array
I am having a problem appending a struct to an array... from the examples posted at: http://www.macromedia.com/v1/handlers/index.cfm?id=18894method=full#2 it looks to me as if I'm doing it correctly. The error message states that One dimensional arrays can store any value types... the array session.cart is a one dimensional array, so I'm totally confused. Can anyone see what I'm doing wrong? Thanks. cfset cartItem = structnew() cfset cartItem.id = 1 cfset cartItem.name = test cfset cartItem.price = test cfset cartItem.quantity = 1 cfif not(isdefined(session.cart)) cfset session.cart = arraynew(1) /cfif cfscript AddIt = ArrayAppend(session.cart, cartItem); /cfscript - An error occurred while evaluating the expression: AddIt = ArrayAppend(session.cart, cartItem); ArrayAppend(Array, Value): cannot append Value to array. One dimensional arrays can store any value types. However, multi-dimensional arrays can only store arrays of dimension one less than their own. For example, if A was a two-dimensional array, the assignment A[3] = ArrayNew(1) would execute successfully, but A[3] = 5 will generate an error. -- v/r, Jeff __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Query Problem
Thanks it worked Getting up to early to see straight -Original Message- From: Paul Bowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:52 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Query Problem Try using single quotes around 'Parametric'. -Original Message- From: ronmyers [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 April 2002 14:41 To: CF-Talk Subject: Query Problem Can someone tell my why I am getting this error. If I take the WHERE line out it returns all the data just fine Thanks Ron ODBC Error Code = 07001 (Wrong number of parameters) [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1. Hint: The cause of this error is usually that your query contains a reference to a field which does not exist. You should verify that the fields included in your query exist and that you have specified their names correctly. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFQUERY), occupying document position (2:1) to (5:70) in the template file e:\ns-server\docs\webapps\MFG\Probe\CardTrack\Card_Info\ParamOutput.cfm. cfquery name=pcards dbtype = dynamic ConnectString=DRIVER=Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb); DBQ=\\bodata.micron.com\webapps\MFG\Probe\prbcardtrack\prbcards.mdb; SELECT Card_Type FROM tblCardData WHERE Card_Type=Parametric; /cfquery __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
CFNorth
If you're going to be anywhere near Toronto this weekend and would like to find out more about Fusebox, come over to the big cfnorth conference (www.cfnorth.com). There's an entire track on Fusebox and there's a session showing a pretty great tool for use with Fusebox called Adalon from Synthis (www.synthis.com). Hal __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: DWMX First Impressions
oi Pete!! isn't that what homesite+ is supposed to be for? -- Critz Certified Adv. ColdFusion Developer Crit[s2k] - CF_ChannelOP Network=Efnet Channel=ColdFusion Tuesday, April 30, 2002, 8:59:29 AM, you wrote: PR In 5 minutes of DWMX use I have found the following annoyances: PR * Outright crashed when I closed a document that I edited without saving * No right-click close in coder view * No file recent files PR * No custom toolbars/buttons (boo! hiss!) PR I find it disconcerting that I was able to crash the app so easily by doing PR such a relatively simple thing...especially since it's in RC mode and I'm PR sure no further rounds of bug fixing are planned. However, the core CF PR toolbars are there, so I guess that's a start. PR I'll plod on and try using it as my primary editor over the next couple of PR days, maybe I'll have better luck. Anyone else found any serious PR annoyances? PR Pete PR __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CFCs ( Was: Re: Inheritance : was I like CFMX)
Ack, my last post was rejected cuz the server thought I didn't write
anything - let me try one more time...
A) cfproperty needs to be documented somewhere. It seems
to have no
other purpose than providing documentation to the metadata (
when viewing a
cfc in the browser )
You can find docs under the Web Services section in the documentation.
CFPROPERTY is used when publishing WS.
B) Can we have a component scope?
You do. It's called the This scope. The This scope also allows for some
cool stuff in UDFs, see below.
C) Can we have a package scope?
Good idea! Post it on our Preview Release forums.
So - A did you know item:
If a structure contains a UDF, when you call the UDF, all the keys in
the struct as passed to it. So, you can do pseudo-JS objects w/ structs
and UDFs. Imagine:
cfscript
function newJedi(name,rank,align) {
var ob = structNew();
ob.name = name;
ob.rank = rank;
ob.align = align;
ob.display = displayJedi;
return ob;
}
function displayJedi() {
writeOutput(Jedi: #this.name#br);
writeOutput(Rank: #this.rank#br);
writeOutput(Alignment: #this.align#br);
writeoutput(p);
}
luke = newJedi(Luke Skywalker,Master,Light);
darth = newJedi(Darth Vader,Master,Dark);
luke.display();
darth.display();
/cfscript
===
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yahoo IM : morpheus
My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda
===
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yahoo IM : morpheus
My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda
-Original Message-
From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 9:41 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: CFCs ( Was: Re: Inheritance : was I like CFMX)
Is there a place we can ( publically) submit enhancement
requests for
CFMX? If so, then everyone go and submit these:
A) cfproperty needs to be documented somewhere. It seems
to have no
other purpose than providing documentation to the metadata (
when viewing a
cfc in the browser )
B) Can we have a component scope?
C) Can we have a package scope?
( On a completely unrelated note, how can I view / set / change a
classpath in Windows 2000? )
--
Jeffry Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Need a Web Developer? Contact me!
Weird E-mail problems Use use mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] as backup
AIM: Reboog711 | Fax / Phone: 860-223-7946
--
My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com
My Band: http://www.farcryfly.com
--
Will I be on the streets tomorrow, Will I have to beg and Borrow
Will I have to go back to the job I left behind?
__
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Re: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
All I know is that the inability of the FuseBox community to gather together a formal specification has meant that, even though I am sympathetic to their ideas, I long ago moved my own way in building a full-fledged application framework for my own usage. It's a far distant cousin of FuseBox 1.0, but it's my own invention for the most part--and this was forced upon me simply because the only way to learn FuseBox seems to be to buy someone's poorly-written book. That is not an open specification. If FuseBox delivered on its promises, all of its interfaces would be well documented, it would be more than just a model to code upon, and we'd be in a position where we could pretty much drop in FuseBox-compliant applets (circuits? fuses?) in and out of our own web applications to our hearts content. I've yet to see this happen. I've yet to see two FuseBox apps which operate in the same manner. Hell, I've yet to see an actual FuseBox app! -- Kreig Zimmerman : Sr. Technical Mgr. : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Four Eyes Productions : Brooklyn, NY NB: My apps all run through index.cfm however... :) - Original Message - From: Dave Watts To: CF-Talk Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:34 AM Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) In response to your question to Steve, Tim Heald asked us to respond to some Fusebox talk on the CF-List. I was kidding about the alarm bell thing! To the Fusemobile! I'm happy to try to help, but I know that some folks have an animus against Fusebox that I can't help with. Well, frankly, one of my gripes about Fusebox is that, whenever someone voices an objection, it's framed as animus - an attack against the one true faith. I'm not trying to convert anyone one way or another; my sole, though oft repeated, objection is that Fusebox developers tend to miss the forest for the trees. To a certain degree, I blame Fusebox for this. You could argue that this isn't the fault of Fusebox, or that I'm mischaracterizing Fusebox by making this argument, but in the end, the response to my arguments tends to be you just don't get it, Dave. I realize that you personally have never made this argument, and I'm probably being unfair in throwing this back at you, but there you have it. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Error in event log
The thing is this user was never given their username and password. So if no one has ever been given the info why is it constantly filling my log file? I checked the only places I can think of and there is no longer any reference to this user. GR. When will the hurting stop? ;) Phillip Broussard Tracker Marine Group 417-873-5957 -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 8:49 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: Error in event log I'm still new to the Win 2k server and can't seem to find a way to get rid of this error. I deleted a user from the server and now I get this error message about ever minute or so. Any one have an idea on how to get rid of it? Event Type: Warning Event Source: MSFTPSVC Event Category: None Event ID: 100 Date: 4/29/2002 Time: 7:09:35 PM User: N/A Computer: Dude Description: The server was unable to logon the Windows NT account 'usr59k72' due to the following error: Logon failure: unknown user name or bad password. It looks to me like this user is trying to log in to your server. You won't make the error message go away until you stop the user from logging on - and you wouldn't want to; the purpose of logging these things is so that you can see them and respond to them. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: DWMX First Impressions
No CF Reference materials for functions *** Its in there but there is no right click insert expression - you can use my DWMX extension for that. Hmm, in the included Macromedia CFML Reference the only thing I see is reference material for tags no reference materials for functions such as DateFormat, MAX, MIN, etc. Can't make it insert Tabs as spaces *** Edit Preferences Code Format to insert tabs as spaces Yeah I saw that and that's what I thought it would do but it still puts a tab in my document any time I use the tab key, instead of two spaces. It also seems to be putting a tab in when it auto-indents, but that might just be my imagination. No File Save As in coder view *** If you right click on the File Tab in DWMX view, you get Close, Close All, Save Save As! Thanks, never would have found it there. You can't right click on a file in the site file list and choose Insert As Link to insert it as a link on the current page. *** Use the Properties Panel, if you click the little round target icon next to the href field, you can drag over to a file and link it that way! I saw that, but that is several extra steps from just right clicking on the file. Will most likely just type the url out instead of going through all that. On a positive note, I absolutely love the way it lists all the styles when you type class=. Great Feature!! Garrett Hrncir Web Technology Jackson Lewis __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Mainframe DB2 stored procedures abending
We have an application that uses CF 5.0 to collect parameters and pass them to stored procedures in DB2 on the mainframe. It works well except that the stored procedures are abending on a random but regular basis(!). We have not been able to pinpoint the cause of the abends but we think it may have something to do with when a user triggers a stored procedure then does not wait for the result set but tries instead to send another request, thus breaking the thread for the stored procedure so it has nowhere to return its answer set (I'm not a database person and I probably showed my ignorance with that statement . . .). We are using mainframe DB2 version 5.2. Our stored procedures only read from the database, they do not update, write, or delete. Our CF variables are all local scope. We are running CF 5.0 on a quad processor server with 4GB RAM. We are averaging about 540 calls a day to the stored procedures. Average total elapsed time for the DB2 stored procedures is 1.7 seconds, but we have one stored procedure that typically takes 5 - 20 seconds. We have received abends on all three of the most requested stored procedures. Here is an example of code we use to call a stored procedure: = cftry cftransaction cfstoredproc datasource=#datasource# procedure=#rcl_listing# cfprocparam type=IN cfsqltype=CF_SQL_VARCHAR value=#listingQueryString# dbvarname=@PARM-RZSTR-INPUT CFPROCPARAM TYPE=OUT cfsqltype=CF_SQL_VARCHAR VARIABLE=code DBVARNAME=@PARM-RETURN-CODE CFPROCPARAM TYPE=OUT cfsqltype=CF_SQL_VARCHAR VARIABLE=message DBVARNAME=@PARM-RETURN-MSG CFPROCRESULT NAME = RS1 CFPROCRESULT NAME = RS2 resultset=2 /cfstoredproc /cftransaction cfcatch script language=javascript type=text/javascript top.frames[X].transferDisplay.close(); alert (The application was unable to connect to the Database.\nPlease try again later.); /script !--- cfset errorMessage = cfcatch.type - cfcatch.message - cfcatch.detail cffile action=write file=d:\\\\\\error.txt output=#errorMessage#--- cfabort /cfcatch /cftry = Is there anything obviously missing here that we should be doing to protect the integrity of the call to the stored procedure? Thanks! George [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CFCs ( Was: Re: Inheritance : was I like CFMX)
At 10:27 AM 4/30/2002 -0400, you wrote: Ack, my last post was rejected cuz the server thought I didn't write anything - let me try one more time... A) cfproperty needs to be documented somewhere. It seems to have no other purpose than providing documentation to the metadata ( when viewing a cfc in the browser ) You can find docs under the Web Services section in the documentation. CFPROPERTY is used when publishing WS. I just checked and this isn't documented in my beta-release. I hope it is there in the pre-release. ( I submitted an enhancement request asking for more documentation, maybe someone took it to heart? ). B) Can we have a component scope? You do. It's called the This scope. The This scope also allows for some cool stuff in UDFs, see below. This I didn't know. If memory serves me, the this scope is also used in custom tags. This seems like a logical implementation of it. C) Can we have a package scope? Good idea! Post it on our Preview Release forums. I submitted an enhancement request during one of the betas. So - A did you know item: If a structure contains a UDF, when you call the UDF, all the keys in the struct as passed to it. So, you can do pseudo-JS objects w/ structs and UDFs. Imagine: That is a cool tidbit. Thanks! anything else? : getsoutnotepad: -- Jeffry Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Need a Web Developer? Contact me! Weird E-mail problems Use use mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] as backup AIM: Reboog711 | Fax / Phone: 860-223-7946 -- My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com My Band: http://www.farcryfly.com -- Will I be on the streets tomorrow, Will I have to beg and Borrow Will I have to go back to the job I left behind? __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CFCs ( Was: Re: Inheritance : was I like CFMX)
Yep, same idea, the Custom Tag scope is ThisTag, the CFC scope is This. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:41 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CFCs ( Was: Re: Inheritance : was I like CFMX) At 10:27 AM 4/30/2002 -0400, you wrote: Ack, my last post was rejected cuz the server thought I didn't write anything - let me try one more time... A) cfproperty needs to be documented somewhere. It seems to have no other purpose than providing documentation to the metadata ( when viewing a cfc in the browser ) You can find docs under the Web Services section in the documentation. CFPROPERTY is used when publishing WS. I just checked and this isn't documented in my beta-release. I hope it is there in the pre-release. ( I submitted an enhancement request asking for more documentation, maybe someone took it to heart? ). B) Can we have a component scope? You do. It's called the This scope. The This scope also allows for some cool stuff in UDFs, see below. This I didn't know. If memory serves me, the this scope is also used in custom tags. This seems like a logical implementation of it. C) Can we have a package scope? Good idea! Post it on our Preview Release forums. I submitted an enhancement request during one of the betas. So - A did you know item: If a structure contains a UDF, when you call the UDF, all the keys in the struct as passed to it. So, you can do pseudo-JS objects w/ structs and UDFs. Imagine: That is a cool tidbit. Thanks! anything else? : getsoutnotepad: -- Jeffry Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Need a Web Developer? Contact me! Weird E-mail problems Use use mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] as backup AIM: Reboog711 | Fax / Phone: 860-223-7946 -- My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com My Band: http://www.farcryfly.com -- Will I be on the streets tomorrow, Will I have to beg and Borrow Will I have to go back to the job I left behind? __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
was:Longitudes and Latitudes (AGAIN) - I have wrote a UDF for any one that is interested
I have just got this to work exactly the way I want it,
I have wrote a UDF with the correct formula in it now
and it seems to be 100% accurate,
the UDF takes into account that your LAT and LON values
are in Degree decimal format,
!---UDF distance Formula||---
CFSCRIPT
//calculate the Deltas
function distance(lat1,lat2,lon1,lon2){
km=6367;
deltaLon=twoRadians(lon1)-twoRadians(lon2);
deltaLat=twoRadians(lat1)-twoRadians(lat2);
//intermediate values
intMedVal = sin2(deltaLat/2) + cos(twoRadians(lat1)) *
cos(twoRadians(lat2)) * sin2(deltaLon/2);
//the great circle distance in radians
gcd = 2 * arcSin(getMin(1,Sqr(intMedVal)));
//multiply the the radians by the radius to get the
distance in specified units
d = km * gcd;
//this only applies to us (ANDRONICS.CO.UK)
//it relevant to the vendor that is displaying the
map data
//the map is coming back in rectangular format they
use the length as the zoom distance
//we multiply it by 2 two get an equal zoom distance
from top to bottom
d = round(d * 2);
}
//Convert to Radians
function twoRadians(currDegree){
(currDegree * (Pi()/180));
}
function sin2(currVal){
(1 - cos(2*currVal))/2;
}
function arcSin(x){
atn(x/Sqr(-x * x + 1));
}
function getMin(y,z){
if(y lte z){
getMin=y;
}else{
getMin=z;
}
}
/CFSCRIPT
CFSET
ATTRIBUTES.D=distance(maxLatitude,minLatitude,maxLongitude,minLongitude)
Respectfully,
J
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RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
For the record, my current project IS a Fusebox app. We came onboard after the project had been started, so FB was already in place. It only took a few days to work through the existing code to determine how and where things were being done. My point though is that FB may be good in some instances - either due to the nature of the application, or the background of the developers. In other areas, it may not be such a good idea. Developers with a solid grasp of programming and system analisys/design concepts (not sure I'm there yet) probably don't need Fusebox to apply structure to their application - but they are likly skilled and professional enough to use it when needed. Other than that, I'll leave this discussion to those more qualified than me. (I've seen your name a few times besides this list Hal, and understand you to be a key figure in the Fusebox movement - you are much more qualified than I to discuss FB.) Shawn Grover -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:38 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) I don't think it's quite like that, Shawn. I learned programming working in Smalltalk. The first database I ever used was an OO one. I don't think it's a lack of experience in OOP or an inability to grasp abstract concepts and methods that leads me to the conclusion that Fusebox works very well. That's why I encourage others to try Fusebox out for themselves. Come to your own conclusions and then you won't have to listen to me saying it's great! or someone else saying it sucks! -Original Message- From: Shawn Grover [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 4:11 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX) Having just spent 2 hours catching up on this thread, I'm getting tired, and need sleep. My take on this thread: Those developers who have experience in structured programming and/or OOP, can relate some of the abstract concepts and methods from these disciplines to web development. Those developers who only have web development experience, will not understand these concepts and methods at first glance. Or second and thrid glances. I agree with Dave and Matt that the terms used to describe these concepts and methods need to be clear - and they are to those with the greater experience. That doesn't mean they are clear to those who do not have the experience - but the onus is on them to learn more about the terms, concepts, methods. Afterall, how can you put an abstract idea into 100 words or less, when it takes a definition AND seeing that definition in action (sometimes lots of times) to truly understand? That said, Dave nailed it on the head - if you feel a tool makes you more productive, then use it. Fusebox is probably a good intro to using a structure for a web app. But Fusebox devotees must keep in mind that there is SO much more out there when it comes to developing. And the more experience developers (meaning more experienced with other types of coding, rather than just web apps), must keep in mind that there is no single method to solve a problem. I myself fall into that trap too often - how do I do this? simple, do this, this and this without thinking about the number of other methods to solve the issue. However, this is mostly based on my experience, and knowing the problems/concerns with the other methods. But, I'm open minded, show me a better way, and WHY it's a better way and I'll do it that way. cf_disclaimer I don't feel my own experience is all that great, but do know that I have more in some areas than most of my coworkers - web development is one of those areas /cf_disclaimer All that said, I've looked into Fusebox. The most I can see, and I'm sure I'm missing lots, is that FB is basically one file that acts as a switchboard for the app - directing actions to the proper files. I can handle this directing in other manners (such as submitting a form directly to my action page, rather than the index.cfm with the right action specified), and manage the file/directory structure, includes, and redirections of my apps without FB per se. (Actually, FB came close to matching how I built my directory structure in the first place - but that's experience and common sense kicking in.) To an experienced developer, the code would be straight forward (and well commented), to someone who cut their teeth on FB, they may have difficulty following the flow of logic. If you are lucky enough to work with a team of experienced developers, then FB probably won't be used. If not, then FB might be beneficial. Each developer or team must decide for themselves which tool works best for them personally, AND for the problem/application at hand. My thoughts, not yours. And now my bed is beckoning me. Shawn Grover -Original Message- From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox
RE: Error in event log
The thing is this user was never given their username and password. So if no one has ever been given the info why is it constantly filling my log file? I checked the only places I can think of and there is no longer any reference to this user. GR. If someone tries to log on to your FTP server with username foo and password bar, you'll see that error message in your security log, assuming you've enabled auditing of logons as you should. It doesn't matter whether there's an actual user account with that username or password. When will the hurting stop? ;) I don't know. If I were you, I'd be more concerned with the possibility that someone is trying to log into your FTP server than the fact that your log files are growing! You should look at your FTP server logs, and see what's going on. You might use additional protection for your FTP server, like IP address restrictions, as well, if you can. If you don't pay attention to attempts to log into your FTP server, the hurting may only have begun. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Mainframe DB2 stored procedures abending
We have an application that uses CF 5.0 to collect parameters and pass them to stored procedures in DB2 on the mainframe. It works well except that the stored procedures are abending on a random but regular basis(!). We have not been able to pinpoint the cause of the abends but we think it may have something to do with when a user triggers a stored procedure then does not wait for the result set but tries instead to send another request, thus breaking the thread for the stored procedure so it has nowhere to return its answer set. That sounds like a plausible possibility to me. My DB2 experience is pretty limited, but here's what I'd look for: 1. See if you can enable any sort of logging at the database client level. 2. See if there are any documented issues with the specific database client version, specifically with regard to multiplexing issues. 3. Ask your DBA if there are any troubleshooting tools you can apply on the database server itself. 4. Look for correspondences between client disconnects and these errors, by examining your CF log files carefully. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
CFStudio DWMX hiccups
Pretty impressed with DWMX so far, with the inevitable initial niggles, wondered if anyone had the same problems and could maybe shed light on them: - Obviously I miss the built-in expression builder and expression reference. I grabbed Neil Clark's Expression Panel extension, and it seemed to install OK. But when I selected it from the right-click menu, I got this message: Unable to find Expression.htm in the Configuration/Floaters directory. The floater will not be shown. And from then on, nothing happens. Anyone? - Connecting to a datasource on our local server in the Databases panel is as slow as it was in CFStudio - although this is probably a local network problem we have. Only, when I close the file I was working on (if there are no other files left), the DS I was working with 'folds up', and I have to exand it and all the tables I was using again. Groan!! Any way round this apart from always keeping at least one file open? - New file browser takes a bit of getting used to. I never used CFStudio 5, and was kind of looking forward to the double file-browser for copying, etc. But the Mac-style folder/file browsing seems a half-way compromise. Only, why do I have to expand the thing to full-screen (File View?) to get the size, date, etc. for files in columns? I can get this info when it's collapsed to a panel by hovering over a file, but it's sometimes nice to see the info all lined up. - Also, I can't find a way to control the sorting of files when you're in the Site panel. I just want them ordered alphabetically, but they're not. Am I missing an option? - Is there a quick-start guide to modifying DW anyone could recommend? Curious about how to replicate the CFStudio custom buttons. And you can't even modify the toolbars at the top. CFML Flow bar doesn't have CFEXIT or CFBREAK in there - it's not exactly adding a custom button to get those in, but how can you do it? All in all, though, even as a dedicated CFStudio hand-coder, DWMX looks kind of promising. The feel of it reminds me of first using HomeSite, and thinking There's some thoughfulness here. cheers, - Gyrus - [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: http://www.tengai.co.uk play: http://www.norlonto.net - PGP key available __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: DWMX First Impressions
In the MS Visual Studio environment (VB, C++, etc.) they call that code completion. It will also code complete on declared variables and custom functions. Does DWMX do these additional things as well? If so, then the interface is MUCH more developer friendly than I first thought. (I installed DWMX yesterday, but haven't had much chance to play with it.) Shawn Grover -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:45 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: DWMX First Impressions Another nice one, Ctrl-Space in the editor window lists all functions, and if you are in the middle of typing one it'll position the list to what you have typed. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Carlisle, Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 9:31 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: DWMX First Impressions I was initially frustrated that F1 did not bring up CF tag references (one of my favorite CFS features). I found out this morning that it's shift f1 in DWMX. Plus, I can view the reference and code at the same time. Well done! I'm probably going to find that there are a lot of cool features... just not where I initially expect them to be. :) So far, I like what I see. Eric __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
TrustCommerce
Hi All, Is anyone here using trust commerce as their credit card validation/authorization service? Duane __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
At 09:16 AM 4/30/2002 -0600, you wrote: For the record, my current project IS a Fusebox app. We came onboard after the project had been started, so FB was already in place. It only took a few days to work through the existing code to determine how and where things were being done. At the risk of perpetrating this conversation even more.. You allude to the fact that you had to weed through code to find out what was done and what wasn't. Which leads me to think that there was very little (if any) documentation of the project. you should not have to look at the code to figure out what was done ( or not ). Granted, that is not a fusebox specific problem, but it is a problem. And in this light the problem is attributed to fusebox programmers. -- Jeffry Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Need a Web Developer? Contact me! Weird E-mail problems Use use mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] as backup AIM: Reboog711 | Fax / Phone: 860-223-7946 -- My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com My Band: http://www.farcryfly.com -- Will I be on the streets tomorrow, Will I have to beg and Borrow Will I have to go back to the job I left behind? __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Flash Expression
Hey, Here is the latest 1.0.3 version - a bugges one was uploaded by mistake! Sorry for the problems...! Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Flash Expression....
Anyone who needs the latest .mxp for the Flash Expression can download it from www.fluidik.com/mxp/flashexpression.zip The version on the MM site is 1.0.1, and the latest is 1.0.3 Thanks!! Neil Clark Team Macromedia http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Announcing Macromedia MX!! http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/. __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Fusebox (was: I like CFMX)
That's why I encourage others to try Fusebox out for themselves. Come to your own conclusions and then you won't have to listen to me saying it's great! or someone else saying it sucks! Oh yes, they will! They just won't have to pay attention. Besides, there's a world of difference between it's great and it sucks. I don't think that it sucks. I just don't think it's especially relevant to the problems that CF developers face. Reasonable people can differ on that point, I suppose. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Weird error
Anyone ever seen this error unknown exception condition PCodeDocumentNodeImp::prepareForExecution The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFINCLUDE), occupying document position (270:2) to (270:47) in the template file E:\SER\TSG\APPS\OVERDUEDISPO\OVDCORP\CTMREPORTS\DEFAULT1.CFM. __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
