Re: Win2K SP3 killed my IIS

[Doug]

You can uninstall SP 3 only if you chose the archive old files when you installed it.  
otherwise you
cannot uninstall it.

You can try a re-install and perhaps that will work, otherwise it is a complete clean 
install from
scratch.


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- Original Message -
From: "Bob Haroche" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Win2K SP3 killed my IIS


| Hmm...
|
| First, can you un-install SP3 via the control panel?
|
| Second, in the past I've had trouble with Zone Alarm loading at start
| up hanging other services, including IIS and the IIS admin console. If
| you have ZA, try disabling it at start up or even un-installing it.
|
| Good luck.
|
|
| PS. Next time, try www.goback.com -- inexpensive effective lifesaver
| (and, no, I don't work for them)
|
|
| -
| Regards,
| Bob Haroche
| O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
| www.OnPointSolutions.com
|
| 
~|
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Re: How Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion?

[Doug]

As a Microsoft Channel Partner and reseller, I can tell you that dot NET has had 
similar problems
with market penetration.   The big changes in Studio and the rather steep learning 
curve to become
proficient may well pay off at some time, but so far it has been slow to catch on.  
The multitudes
of VB programmers are having to learn it all over again due to lack of backward 
compatibility and
syntax changes needed to embrace OOP.   MS implementation of SOAP is likewise not 
mature as yet
either.  One hears quite a bit of ballyhoo about pure JAVA, however, its 
implementation leaves much
to be desired as well.  As a result, I am advising my clients to be careful about 
putting one's eggs
in just one basket.  With the adoption of "standards" ( depends on whose standards you 
wish to look
at) not being very mature, the entire market for Web Services is going to be in a 
state of flux for
a long time to come, and the vendors seem to be trying to overcome inherent weaknesses 
with
marketing, as opposed to product.

I have just taken a look at Microsoft's newest server entry, dot NET enterprise, I can 
see that
giant steps have been taken in ease of setup and administration  (It is almost as if 
they are trying
to put the system admins out of business) with features such as built-in SMTP hosting 
and POP3
features which will permit almost any server to be an email host, without the 
burdensome Exchange
server or other email server overlays.  Very easy to set up and administer for shared 
hosting, and
most of the other server functions which in the past have been really complex.  The 
built-in MSDE is
going to speed up most any database functions that have been very resource intensive 
in the past.

MS is taking security very seriously as they market their server products to the 
enterprise, and
there are many new security features in the product.

IBM has embraced both Linux and ColdFusion on their WebSphere (java) server product, 
which tells me
that CF is not going away anytime soon.

Version 4 of MySQL is soon to be released, which will make this database product very 
competitive
with the former mainstream products such as Oracle, MSSQL, Sybase, and SAP.  Being 
open-source, the
savings in licensing costs alone are starting to get major attention from clients.  
That said, the
US military, and other agencies have negotiated enterprise licensing from Oracle, and 
are fast
replacing their hodge-podge of FoxPro, Sybase, MSSQL, and other database products with 
Oracle as a
standard.

For those *nix aficionados who love to bash vulnerabilities in Microsoft products, I 
like to mention
that as a hosting provider who uses both platforms, of the security patches over the 
past month or
so, they have been coming more numerous on the Linux platform as new vulnerabilities 
are being
exposed.

All in all, the client is becoming much more sophisticated, and is reluctant to 
purchase whatever
technology that comes along unless there are compelling reasons, such as ROI and 
cost-effectiveness
inherent in the offering,.

For the developer, the market has changed in the past year or so from a seller's 
(developer) market
to a buyer's (client) market, and thus wages are dropping as there appear to be more 
developers
seeking work than there are clients looking for them.  Also they are looking for more 
multi-skilled
developers as opposed to gurus in only one software product.

Bottom line is that no one particular product will have the easy sledding as they have 
enjoyed in
the past. CF is a great product, don't give up on it yet!


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- Original Message -
From: "Kris Pilles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:51 AM
Subject: RE: How Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion?


| Interesting to find some of this out.  We are in a position that I think
| many organizations are in.  We've been priamrilly a CF house for well
| over 2 years and we purchased MX enterprise but have yet to install it
| because of the growing popularity of .NET .  I really enjoy CF and love
| what I can do with it and how fast I can develop with it but... I think
| that our IT director along with a good part of me is feeling pressure to
| switch over to .NET entirely.  The biggest reason is .NET's ability to
| allow us to develop for a multitude of enviroments... Thin client,
| clinet server, web based etc...  This will allow our organization to
| have all of their programmers working on the same platform thus creating
| an internal community where everyone can help everyone else out and
| learn from each other..
|
| While CF is a great product, it can not offer this type of
| standardization to us.  I am a strong believer in CF and will continue
| to use it for development 

Re: Shopping Carts & PayPal IPN

[Doug]

I am hosting a site that uses a combination of PayPal and conventional payment 
options, (written in
ASP and CF.)
The shopping cart is a custom modification of QuickEstore.

check it out at http://www.strictlyhodaka.com




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- Original Message -
From: "Chris Montgomery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 4:15 PM
Subject: Shopping Carts & PayPal IPN


| Howdy,
|
| This is directed to anyone who has used PayPal with CF-based shopping
| carts...
|
| I have read over the PayPal Instant Payment Notification (IPN) docs and
| think I have a fairly firm grasp on how this works for payment
| verification, etc. But what I haven't nailed down is if it is possible
| to use PayPal with an *existing* shopping cart written in CF. PayPal
| support hasn't responded to my question about this, so I thought some of
| you might know.
|
| My question: is it possible to integrate an existing CF shopping cart
| with PayPal payment processing? It *appears* to me that to integrate IPN
| with a shopping cart, that shopping cart needs to be a PayPal shopping
| cart (one created on their site). Or am I incorrect?
|
| The advantage of a CF-based cart solution is that I can maintain info in
| my product database like product special pricing, start and end dates
| for product specials, etc., and then display this dynamically. I don't
| believe PayPal shopping carts can handle special situations like that.
| Anyone know?
|
| Using PayPal was never my first option, but I cancelled my CC merchant
| account and AuthorizeNet account to save some $$ on the monthly fees.
| Since I had not experienced a high volume of sales, the fees were
| getting to be too much.
|
| TIA.
|
| Chris Montgomerymonty @ airtightweb.com
|
| --
| Airtight Web Services   http://www.airtightweb.com
| Web Development, Web Project Management, Software Sales
| 210-490-3249/888-745-7603
|
| 
~|
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Re: How about Macromedia provide a more detailed configuration document for CFMX?

[Doug]

I am reading so much pain and suffering caused by configuration issues with the 
migration to
ColdFusionMX.

There have been so many issues, my clients, for instance are delaying the upgrade 
until the dust
settles.   I am seeing so many people reporting problems with the set up and 
configuration, and
reporting bugs, that turn out to be configuration that I would like to see Macromedia 
go to the
effort to product a comprehensive set of documentation that will address these 
configuration issues.
Just as Microsoft had to learn, the "one size fits all" is creating more problems than 
it solves.
It should not be required for a system administrator to have to go to a $3000.00 
course, purchase
$200 to $300.00 in books just to install and configure the product.  This is what it 
seems to appear
to be the case at present.  It should not require weeks and weeks of tweaking (read 
that thousands
of dollars of labor costs.) to install and set up the server product.

It seems to be a given that Macromedia does not pay much attention to its install 
application, which
has been a bone of contention of mine from way back.  Even the updater follows the old 
trend.

I suggest the gurus at Macromedia obtain a copy of the new Microsoft .NET Enterprise 
server (release
candidate) and walk through the install and configuration wizards and see what 
advances have been
made toward set up and security, and try to incorporate the idea into their own 
install application.

I have no question about the product being stable and awesome when properly 
configured, but why does
it require so much training and expertise just to set up a server?

When a hotfix is released, there should not be the requirement that the install 
procedure for the
patches be different than the original install, but with just the required 
configuration for the fix
itself.  Instead when Macromedia releases a fix, each one has a unique installation 
procedure, such
as "copy this file to this directory", and "copy that one to that directory" and then 
reboot or
restart the service.  The install application should do all that for consistency sake. 
 Setting up
remoting is treated so casually that way too much time is required to set that feature 
up and be
consistent with server security.  Best practices call for your database to be served 
on a different
serer than the one that provides web services, remember?



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|

~|
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Re: How about Macromedia provide a more detailed configuration document for CFMX?

[Doug]

We are holding off on the installation - we do not wish to bring down our production 
servers until
all the issues are worked out.


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- Original Message -
From: "Kola Oyedeji" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 12:24 PM
Subject: RE: How about Macromedia provide a more detailed configuration document for 
CFMX?


| Doug
|
| I will be installing CFMX for the first time, what configuration problems
| are you having? What issues should i be aware of?
|
| Thanks
|
| Kola
|

~|
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Re: CF Credit Card Processors/ Fees

[Doug]

Verisgn is much cheaper

PayPal is free - no merchant account needed.


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- Original Message -
From: "CF-Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: CF Credit Card Processors/ Fees


| I hope this is not getting old and I don't feel that it is OT for those of
| us trying desperately to pull CF
| out of the Intranets and into mainstream E-business.
|
| I checked out versign the price was something like $895US versus Sfcommerce
| at $299US.
| Am I wrong about Verisign? Are they cheaper? I wouldn't know cause they
| won't reply.
| Sfcommerce has done way more than reply but I hear that Verisign is cheaper
| so I'm curious.
|
| Oh yeah, I'll advertise for you Stace, as far as support and CFtag
| integration goes Sfcommerce is excellent, if not the best I've encountered
| so far!
|
| Again Thanks for any feedback on the Verisign pricing.
| (Oh -Is it ok to discuss pricing here?)
| -Jason
|
|
|
| - Original Message -
| From: "Stacy Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:09 PM
| Subject: RE: CF Credit Card Verification/ Authorization Question
|
|
| > Verisign is definitely a reliable source...but I must chime in here to say
| > we're (www.sfcommerce.com) very competitive in pricing, better than most
| > (even more-so at higher volume discount rates), with excellent response
| > times ranging from 2-5 seconds.
| >
| > Ok I promise no more advertising. :-)
| >
| > Cheers!
| >
| > Stace
| >
| > -Original Message-
| > From: Jeffrey Polaski [mailto:jpolaski@;rgs.uci.edu]
| > Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 8:04 PM
| > To: CF-Talk
| > Subject: RE: CF Credit Card Verification/ Authorization Question
| >
| > I've had great success with Verisign. Their processing is fast, stable,
| and
| > easy to set up. They're also cheaper, (at least as of a year or so ago)
| and
| > have good support.
| >
| > One word of advice, though, when you look for a processor, make sure that
| > they can process your transaction in under 5 seconds, or your users will
| > start to double click, etc... which will cause a lot of support
| nightmares.
| >
| >
| >
| >Jeff Polaski
| >"The cow is of the bovine ilk;
| > One end is moo, the other, milk."
| >-- Ogden Nash
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > -Original Message-
| > From: CF-Ross [mailto:cf-ross@;carolina.rr.com]
| > Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 5:29 PM
| > To: CF-Talk
| > Subject: CF Credit Card Verification/ Authorization Question
| >
| >
| > Anyone have suggestions on which Credit Card Authorization/ Verification
| > systems are best suited for CF.
| > I have the shopping cart built and all is set up but I'm not familiar with
| > the actual CC Verification Process.
| > Any comments, links, suggestions?
| >
| > Thanks.
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| 
~|
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Re: Known CFMX issues under consideration for upcoming Updater re lease

[Doug]

I hope it is because that is the database of choice for the Dept of Defense now, 
replacing Sybase,
and MSSQL.  By MM failing to support it, will be curtains for ColdFusion with the DoD 
(Includes the
military services.)

Doug
Oracle DBA



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- Original Message -
From: "Vernon Viehe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: Known CFMX issues under consideration for upcoming Updater re lease


| I know that's been raised here, and it's under consideration, but I don't have any 
|information on
that yet, sorry. When/if I do...I'll let everyone know.
|
| Thanks,
|
| Vernon Viehe
| ColdFusion Community Manager
| Macromedia, Inc.
| --
| Macromedia Certified Professional
| CF blog at http://vvmx.blogspot.com
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Joe Eugene [mailto:Jebebox@;earthlink.net]
| Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:45 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: RE: Known CFMX issues under consideration for upcoming Updater
| release
|
|
| Does MM have plans to support Oracle 9i AS?
|
| Joe
|
| 
~|
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Re: OT cheap SSL

[Doug]

What OS?


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- Original Message -
From: "Josh Trefethen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:50 PM
Subject: OT cheap SSL


| Can anyone point me to some cheap ssl certs?
|
| Thanks,
|
| Josh
|
| 
~|
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Re: OT cheap SSL

[Doug]

Do a self-signed certificate - no charge.


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- Original Message -
From: "Josh Trefethen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 9:11 PM
Subject: RE: OT cheap SSL


| Is openssl a way of implementing ssl on a server?  Do you need to buy a
| cert still?
|
| I am looking for a cheap cert.
|
| -Josh
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Jared Clinton [mailto:jared.clinton@;nec.com.au]
| Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 7:09 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: RE: OT cheap SSL
|
| Hi All,
|
| If this hasn't already been mentioned, and you have a little time check
| out
| : http://www.openssl.org/
|
| Its free and perfectly capable.
|
| Regards,
| Jared Clinton.
|
| -----Original Message-
| From: Doug [mailto:doug@;dwhite.ws]
| Sent: Friday, 25 October 2002 12:04 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: Re: OT cheap SSL
|
|
| What OS?
|
| 
| This address is filtered through the open relay database at
| http://www.ordb.org
| and is virus scanned by ANTIVIR
| http://www.dwhite.ws
| mailto:doug@;dwhite.ws
| 
| - Original Message -
| From: "Josh Trefethen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:50 PM
| Subject: OT cheap SSL
|
|
| | Can anyone point me to some cheap ssl certs?
| |
| | Thanks,
| |
| | Josh
| |
| |
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: Mail Server Recommendations

[Doug]

I also vote for Imail -  This may change when I install the final version of Ms 
Enterprise .NET
server, which has a built-in Email engine not requiring Exchange Server.   I was 
really impressed
with that feature in the Release Candidate version.

Actually, I have two mail servers, one running on Windows and Imail, and the other A 
Red Hat Box
running Sendmail and Mailman.
I like the latter because it is so much easier to set up anti-spam and anti-virus 
filtering at
low/no cost.  Plus I am able to offer my email hosting clients the option of either 
system.  Both
are lightweight and very efficient in the use of resources.


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- Original Message -
From: "Dave Cordes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:56 AM
Subject: RE: Mail Server Recommendations


| Well it's not free but I use IMail from IPSwtich. It's nice because it has a
| Web interface so my clients can manage their own email.
|
| Dave Cordes
| Senior ColdFusion Developer
| 636-939-1081 (H)
| 636-578-4235 (M)
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Joshua Miller [mailto:josh@;joshuasmiller.com]
| Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:38 AM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: Mail Server Recommendations
|
|
| I'm looking for a cheap/free email server for a ColdFusion server I'm
| setting up. Anyone have any recommendations?
|
| I've heard that Mercury Mail is pretty good (and free) ... any others?
| Anything that has a web interface for retrieving mail?
|
| Thanks,
|
| Joshua Miller
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: Mail Server Recommendations

[Doug]

According to the Docs, it does, but I have not yet seen the advantage of running the 
service, if the
regular mail server is doing the job.


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- Original Message -
From: "Joshua Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 12:18 PM
Subject: RE: Mail Server Recommendations


| Pete,
|
| Do you know if it supports mail on multiple domains?
| We're going to have 50 domains or so feeding into one application (sort
| of like a portal) and we need the ability to offer email accounts for
| each domain. Can JAMES handle multiple domains?
|
| Joshua Miller
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Pete Freitag [mailto:pf@;cfdev.com]
| Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 12:11 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: RE: Mail Server Recommendations
|
|
| Check out JAMES (Java Apache Mail Enterprise Server)
| http://jakarta.apache.org/james/
|
| It's a 100% java mail server, and it lets you store your mail in a
| database, files, or pretty much anything. It has a nice API for writing
| custom mail processing filters.
|
| _
| Pete Freitag
| CTO, CFDEV.COM
| http://www.cfdev.com/
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Joshua Miller [mailto:josh@;joshuasmiller.com]
| Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 10:38 AM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: Mail Server Recommendations
|
|
| I'm looking for a cheap/free email server for a ColdFusion server I'm
| setting up. Anyone have any recommendations?
|
| I've heard that Mercury Mail is pretty good (and free) ... any others?
| Anything that has a web interface for retrieving mail?
|
| Thanks,
|
| Joshua Miller
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
|
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: ColdFusion Forums

[Doug]

I sent you a zip file off-list

Doug White


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- Original Message -
From: "James Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 6:17 AM
Subject: ColdFusion Forums


| Years ago Allaire produced a Forums application for ColdFusion which I seem
| to remember they released to the community for free, can anyone point me to
| where I can get these from as I now need to code a message board for a
| client project.
|
| If this has been discontinued can anyone recoment an alternative as I do not
| relish the thought of coding threaded messages from the ground up.
|
| --
| Jay
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: [OT] FlashCom Server High CPU Utilization

[Doug]

-
There is an error in line 84 of the chat.asc file installed in the
server's scriptlib/components directory.

Incorrect :
this.history.unshift();

Correct:
this.history.shift();"
-



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- Original Message -
From: "Anthony Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 9:23 PM
Subject: [OT] FlashCom Server High CPU Utilization


| I'm trying out Flash Comm on my laptop and noticed that the CPU utilization
| level stays above 95% average all the time when the app is running off the
| browser.
| Might have occasional dip but it didn't last for long as it shoots up right
| away. When the browser is closed, the CPU simply goes back to normal (1-3%)
|
| Here's my config:
|
| Pentium III 500
| Windows 2000
| IE 5.5 SP2
| 256 MB RAM (I read that's the minimum for Flash Comm)
| CFMX server service is off
|
| Anyone else experianced the same thing? It's burning my laptop too. I can
| feel the heat through the keyboard while running the flash comm app even for
| a short period of time.
|
| 
|
| 
~|
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Re: OT:Yahoo moving to PHP

[Doug]

Visual Basis is the scripting language for ASP, and is integrated into most all Office 
applications,
it is not going to go away

Several web sites that I host are done using a combination of ASP and CF (mix and 
match)

There are things one will do that the other won't, etc.


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- Original Message -
From: "Jeff Beer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:07 PM
Subject: RE: OT:Yahoo moving to PHP


| In 1991, my IT department head, a C programmer by trade, told me
| (paraphrasing) "Visual Basic?  Don't waste time learning that - it will
| never be accepted ...  you'll never make a dime ..".
|
| Well, 11 years later there are many people making a lot of dimes from
| VB, writing very powerful, functional apps, and people still call it a
| toy..
|
| Matt is right - CF is being treated exactly the same way.
|
| In my mind, CF currently is immature, as VB was back in 1991.  In time,
| CF will be that powerful, stable, reasonably bug free platform that CF
| 5.0 *almost was*.  Ack..  CFMX should have been delayed a year or
| three... Just my opinion.
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Matt Liotta [mailto:mliotta@;r337.com]
| Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:39 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: RE: OT:Yahoo moving to PHP
|
|
| Not really. I get great enjoyment out of watching people make fools of
| themselves by attacking programming languages without merit.
|
| Matt Liotta
| President & CEO
| Montara Software, Inc.
| http://www.montarasoftware.com/
| 888-408-0900 x901
|
| > -Original Message-
| > From: Rob Rohan [mailto:rob@;cardinalweb.com]
| > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:35 PM
| > To: CF-Talk
| > Subject: RE: OT:Yahoo moving to PHP
| >
| > oof, hit a sore spot eh?
| >
| > -Original Message-
| > From: Matt Liotta [mailto:mliotta@;r337.com]
| > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 12:19 PM
| > To: CF-Talk
| > Subject: RE: OT:Yahoo moving to PHP
| >
| >
| > People talk shit about VB more than any other language. Most calling
| VB
| > a toy because it is easy to create applications with. Ironically, VB
| is
| > used in every Fortune 2000 company and has the largest developer base
| in
| > the world mostly because of its ease of use.
| >
| > CF seems to suffer from the same thing. It is quite simply the easiest
|
| > language to build web applications in and as such is considered a toy
| by
| > some, while many Fortune 2000 companies use CF for internal web
| > applications because of this.
| >
| > Matt Liotta
| > President & CEO
| > Montara Software, Inc.
| > http://www.montarasoftware.com/
| > 888-408-0900 x901
| >
| > > -Original Message-
| > > From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:info@;turnkey.to]
| > > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:07 PM
| > > To: CF-Talk
| > > Subject: Re: OT:Yahoo moving to PHP
| > >
| > > > Sure they do. It all depends on who you talk to, Just like C++ vs
| VB
| > vs
| > > > Java
| > > >
| > > > At 01:22 PM 10/30/2002 -0500, you wrote:
| > > >>You know, I am so sick and tired of having to defend CF, at work
| to
| > > other
| > > >>developers here...  You know I don't see php, or asp people
| > having
| > > do
| > > >>defend using those languages.  WTF!!
| > > >>
| > > >>F%$# it I am changing career's and becoming a firefighter...
| > >
| > > I've heard people talk about having to defend ASP ( for being
| cryptic
| > and
| > > not being dynamic enough -- my personal reasons for not liking it
| > after
| > > having worked with it almost exclusively for a year ) and PHP ( for
| > its
| > > background / history -- I have no clue what this means ). I probably
| > can't
| > > count the number of times I've heard people refer to VB with obvious
|
| > > disdain
| > > -- but it still gets a lot of use. And people complain about Java
| > being
| > > "buggy" or "flakey" with enough consistency that I can sometimes
| > finish
| > > their sentences. I've had to defend the use of JavaScript and dhtml
| > even
| > > in
| > > environments where it was known that the company was standardized on
| > IE
| > > and
| > > no-one should be using the application with anything else and there
| > was no
| > > plan to change.
| > >
| > >
| > > S. Isaac Dealey
| > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer
| > >
| > > www.turnkey.to
| > > 954-776-0046
| > >
| >
| >
|
| 
~|
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Re: [OT] DevCon Community Suite Broadcast wrap-up

[Doug]

>From just one visitor who could not make it to DEVCON, I want to extend a great big 
>thank you to
everyone who put out so much effort in keeping the masses informed about what was 
going on, and for
the FlashComm set up.  It was awesome to be able to participate in sessions where the 
audio/video
was being broadcast from Florida to a server in the Netherlands, and then back to me 
in Texas.  On a
mere ADSL connection, I was able to receive excellent quality video as well as audio.  
We have never
before been able to actually view the proceedings as well as participate in them 
before, and
therefore this event was history in the making.  The kudos include those who have 
faithfully posted
BLOGs and posts to this list covering much of the detail of the conference.  All of 
you went to a
lot of trouble and effort, and I just want all of you know that you are appreciated.

Even though there was a lot of seeming nonsense going on in the community suite, there 
was some very
useful presentations that was almost like being there. And I really wish I had been. 
It really
looked like everyone had a lot of fun.


Regards;
Doug White
SAMCFUG


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~|
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Re: CFMX and template caching

[Doug]

Disable persistent caching in CF administrator.


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- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 6:19 PM
Subject: CFMX and template caching


| Hi,
|
| I have a weird problem.  We installed CFMX as a fresh install and pages are
| not being refreshed and served up after being changed or deleted.  For
| example, I deleted a file a long time ago and the old page keeps coming up.
| I checked the administrator and see nothing and rebooted the server and
| that didn't work.
|
| What do I have to do to get the code to recompile?
|
| Thanks
| Mary
|
| 
~|
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Re: CFMX and template caching

[Doug]

That will work too


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- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: CFMX and template caching


| I might be blind, but I don't see that particular setting in the CF
| Administrator.  Is there any way to delete the compiled javacode so the
| server recompiles them?
|
| Mary
|
|
|
|   "Doug"
|   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:   CF-Talk 
|<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|cc:
|   11/01/2002 07:39 Subject:  Re: CFMX and template 
|caching
|   PM
|   Please respond to
|   cf-talk
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Disable persistent caching in CF administrator.
|
| 
| This address is filtered through the open relay database at
| http://www.ordb.org
| and is virus scanned by ANTIVIR
| http://www.dwhite.ws
| mailto:doug@;dwhite.ws
| 
| - Original Message -
| From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 6:19 PM
| Subject: CFMX and template caching
|
|
| | Hi,
| |
| | I have a weird problem.  We installed CFMX as a fresh install and pages
| are
| | not being refreshed and served up after being changed or deleted.  For
| | example, I deleted a file a long time ago and the old page keeps coming
| up.
| | I checked the administrator and see nothing and rebooted the server and
| | that didn't work.
| |
| | What do I have to do to get the code to recompile?
| |
| | Thanks
| | Mary
| |
| |
|
| 
~|
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Re: Compiled pages still exists...

[Doug]

There well may be a copy in your browser cache, and if "Persistent caching" is enabled 
on the
server, then a copy is cached there as well.


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- Original Message -
From: "Chad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:55 AM
Subject: Compiled pages still exists...


| I have deleted a CFM page.
|
| I had the page bookmarked in IE and I clicked on the book mark on
| accident.
|
| The page is still running even though the CFM file does not exists on
| the server!
|
| Is the page compiled somewhere in the ColdFusionMX directory and I need
| to purge the compiled pages?
|
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: UPS US Address Validation

[Doug]

Did you intend to send along a link?


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- Original Message - 
From: "Bryan F. Hogan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:37 AM
Subject: UPS US Address Validation


| In case anyone is interested, here is a web service that I created for UPS'
| Address Validation. It simply returns a Boolean, yes or no. (See attached)
| 
| 
| Bryan F. Hogan
| Director of Internet Development
| Macromedia Certified ColdFusion MX Developer
| Digital Bay Media, Inc.
| 1-877-72DIGITAL
| 

~|
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Re: Custom Tags

[Doug]

download the evaluation version - it is supposed to revert to a single user developer 
after the
evaluation period has expired.


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- Original Message -
From: "Rob Rohan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 6:46 PM
Subject: Custom Tags


| I want to develop some custom tags at home, but I do not have access to a CF
| server. Is there a way (legally) that I can get a CF developer only version
| (for Linux) without buying anything (and doesn't expire)? anybody have any
| Links?
|
| If not, I remember some one posting something about blue dragon (or
| something like that) - does that product have a free version (single ip only
| is fine)
|
| any suggestions?
|
| Thanks,
| Rob
|
| http://treebeard.sourceforge.net
| http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net
|
| 
~|
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Re: Google's API - News & Groups too?

[Doug]

Sure do.


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- Original Message - 
From: "W Luke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 2:47 PM
Subject: Google's API - News & Groups too?


| Hi,
| 
| Sorry for the OT.  I was wondering if anyone knew whether Google's API
| included searching their News and Groups sub-sites?
| 
| Thanks
| 
| Will
| 
| 
| 
~|
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Re: Access Security Problem

[Doug]

Directory permissions?  Must have SYSTEM permissions


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- Original Message -
From: "Andy Ousterhout" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:07 PM
Subject: RE: Access Security Problem


| Yes, I've added User Name and password to the query.  I must be missing
| something else...
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: John Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
| Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:04 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: RE: Access Security Problem
|
|
| Do you provide login info in the DSN definition? I think that is where
| you would have to do it, or in the query itself. Not completely sure,
| haven't done much with access security.
|
| J.
|
| John Wilker
| Web Applications Consultant, Writer
| Macromedia Certified ColdFusion Developer
| Founder/President IE CFUG
| www.red-omega.com
|
| Whatever is wrong it is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp
| stick. Unless of course you just got poked in the eye with a sharp
| stick.
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Andy Ousterhout [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
| Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 6:45 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: Access Security Problem
|
|
| I've added security to my Access 2000 database as follows:
|
| CF System - Full Data User
| SysRead - Read User
| SysNew - New Data user
| SysUpt - Update Data User
|
| I've set Coldfusion login to CFSystem.  When I try to do my first read
| using SysRead ID, I get a database error - No read permission.
|
| Any thoughts on what I might try to fix this?
|
| Andy
|
|
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: Access Security Problem

[Doug]

The directory where the database is, that is if you are on a NTFS system.


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- Original Message -
From: "Andy Ousterhout" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:22 PM
Subject: RE: Access Security Problem


| What must have System permissions?  CF?
|
| -----Original Message-
| From: Doug [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
| Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:22 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: Re: Access Security Problem
|
|
| Directory permissions?  Must have SYSTEM permissions
|
| 
| This address is filtered through the open relay database at
| http://www.ordb.org
| and is virus scanned by ANTIVIR
| http://www.dwhite.ws
| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| 
| - Original Message -
| From: "Andy Ousterhout" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:07 PM
| Subject: RE: Access Security Problem
|
|
| | Yes, I've added User Name and password to the query.  I must be missing
| | something else...
| |
| |
| | -Original Message-
| | From: John Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
| | Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:04 PM
| | To: CF-Talk
| | Subject: RE: Access Security Problem
| |
| |
| | Do you provide login info in the DSN definition? I think that is where
| | you would have to do it, or in the query itself. Not completely sure,
| | haven't done much with access security.
| |
| | J.
| |
| | John Wilker
| | Web Applications Consultant, Writer
| | Macromedia Certified ColdFusion Developer
| | Founder/President IE CFUG
| | www.red-omega.com
| |
| | Whatever is wrong it is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp
| | stick. Unless of course you just got poked in the eye with a sharp
| | stick.
| |
| |
| | -Original Message-
| | From: Andy Ousterhout [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
| | Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 6:45 PM
| | To: CF-Talk
| | Subject: Access Security Problem
| |
| |
| | I've added security to my Access 2000 database as follows:
| |
| | CF System - Full Data User
| | SysRead - Read User
| | SysNew - New Data user
| | SysUpt - Update Data User
| |
| | I've set Coldfusion login to CFSystem.  When I try to do my first read
| | using SysRead ID, I get a database error - No read permission.
| |
| | Any thoughts on what I might try to fix this?
| |
| | Andy
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
| 
~|
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Re: Access Security Problem

[Doug]

Using windows explorer, select the directory (or whole drive) where your database is 
located.  right
click and select properties.
Then select security.   make sure the SYSTEM account appears in the window, if not add 
it and grant
it "full control"


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- Original Message -
From: "Andy Ousterhout" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:51 PM
Subject: RE: Access Security Problem


| Ok.  I am running XP Professional and am signed in under an Admin User Name
| (I know, not smart...).  Do I need to give CF special permission to the
| directory?  If so, how do I do that?
|
| Andy
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Doug [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
| Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:40 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: Re: Access Security Problem
|
|
| The directory where the database is, that is if you are on a NTFS system.
|
| 
| This address is filtered through the open relay database at
| http://www.ordb.org
| and is virus scanned by ANTIVIR
| http://www.dwhite.ws
| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| 
| - Original Message -
| From: "Andy Ousterhout" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:22 PM
| Subject: RE: Access Security Problem
|
|
| | What must have System permissions?  CF?
| |
| | -Original Message-
| | From: Doug [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
| | Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:22 PM
| | To: CF-Talk
| | Subject: Re: Access Security Problem
| |
| |
| | Directory permissions?  Must have SYSTEM permissions
| |
| | 
| | This address is filtered through the open relay database at
| | http://www.ordb.org
| | and is virus scanned by ANTIVIR
| | http://www.dwhite.ws
| | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| | 
| | - Original Message -
| | From: "Andy Ousterhout" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| | To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| | Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:07 PM
| | Subject: RE: Access Security Problem
| |
| |
| | | Yes, I've added User Name and password to the query.  I must be missing
| | | something else...
| | |
| | |
| | | -Original Message-
| | | From: John Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
| | | Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:04 PM
| | | To: CF-Talk
| | | Subject: RE: Access Security Problem
| | |
| | |
| | | Do you provide login info in the DSN definition? I think that is where
| | | you would have to do it, or in the query itself. Not completely sure,
| | | haven't done much with access security.
| | |
| | | J.
| | |
| | | John Wilker
| | | Web Applications Consultant, Writer
| | | Macromedia Certified ColdFusion Developer
| | | Founder/President IE CFUG
| | | www.red-omega.com
| | |
| | | Whatever is wrong it is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp
| | | stick. Unless of course you just got poked in the eye with a sharp
| | | stick.
| | |
| | |
| | | -Original Message-
| | | From: Andy Ousterhout [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
| | | Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 6:45 PM
| | | To: CF-Talk
| | | Subject: Access Security Problem
| | |
| | |
| | | I've added security to my Access 2000 database as follows:
| | |
| | | CF System - Full Data User
| | | SysRead - Read User
| | | SysNew - New Data user
| | | SysUpt - Update Data User
| | |
| | | I've set Coldfusion login to CFSystem.  When I try to do my first read
| | | using SysRead ID, I get a database error - No read permission.
| | |
| | | Any thoughts on what I might try to fix this?
| | |
| | | Andy
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| |
| |
|
| 
~|
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Re: CFMX - I've never seen anything so unstable in my life

[Doug]

I too, found the stability problems vanish when replacing jrun with Sun 1.4



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- Original Message -
From: "Dave Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 8:36 AM
Subject: RE: CFMX - I've never seen anything so unstable in my life


| Just in case this was missed. I have found that upgrading the jre to Sun's
| 1.40 jre, goes some way to relieving the SQL 7 jdbc related problems. I've
| not had any problems since upgrading. However, I've not been able to run any
| load testing.
|
| I've also found that the ODBC socket shows instability when there are
| stability issues in the jdbc connection. Like someone pointed out - the odbc
| socket is simply a java wrapper.
|
| Dave
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
| Sent: 13 October 2002 01:01
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: Re: CFMX - I've never seen anything so unstable in my life
|
|
| Sorry it's taken me a while to get back to you on this. Have you tried
| the ODBC Socket driver setup to see whether that is more stable? The
| product team have a lot of information now from folks seeing some
| problems with SQL Server 7 and the JDBC driver and they are looking
| into the problem. However, since all the database drivers are
| 3rd-party, we may be somewhat limited in how fast we can resolve this
| (hence the workaround of trying the ODBC Socket driver).
|
| An Architect's View -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
|
| Macromedia DevCon 2002, October 27-30, Orlando, Florida
| Architecting a New Internet Experience
| Register today at http://www.macromedia.com/go/devcon2002
|
| On Monday, Oct 7, 2002, at 13:06 US/Pacific, Ben Densmore wrote:
| > Here are the settings for one Datasource, I put in some dummy data for
| > datasource name etc.. All my datasources have these same settings.
| >
| >   Data Source Name - "Datasource Name"
| >   Database - "Database Name"
| >   Server   - "0.0.0.0"  Port  - 1433
| >   Username
| >
| >   Password
| >
| >   Description
| >
| >
| >   Select Method - "Direct"
| >
| >   Limit Connections - Not Checked   Restrict connections to - Blank
| >
| >   Maintain Connections - Checked
| >
| >   String Format- Not Checked
| >
| >
| >
| >   Timeout (min) - 20  Interval (min) - 7
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >   Disable Connections - Not Checked
| >
| >   Login Timeout (sec) - 30
| >
| >   CLOB - Not Checked
| >
| >   BLOB - Not Checked
| >
| >   Long Text Buffer (chr) - 64000
| >
| >   Blob Buffer(bytes) - 64000
| >
| >   Allowed SQL
| >  SELECT   Create   GRANT
| >  INSERT   DROP REVOKE
| >  UPDATE   ALTERStored Procedures
| >  DELETE
| >
| >  Ben
| >
| >
| > -Original Message-
| > From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
| > Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 3:43 PM
| > To: CF-Talk
| > Subject: Re: CFMX - I've never seen anything so unstable in my life
| >
| > On Monday, Oct 7, 2002, at 12:21 US/Pacific, Ben Densmore wrote:
| >>  Here are the answers to your questions.
| >> - OS / patch level - Win2k SP3
| >> - Database / patch level - SQL Server 7 SP4
| >> - Is the DB on a separate machine? - Yes
| >> - Which driver are you using specifically?
| >> -macromedia.jdbc.MacromediaDriver
| >> - How often do you see this? - Happens daily about every 2-5 minutes
| >> - Does it seem to be connected to any other network issues? - We've
| >> never had any problems with CF 4.5
| >> - Are there other errors in the CF logs? - No
| >
| > Hmm, doesn't sound like an unusual setup. That's a very frequent error
| > rate tho'...
| >
| > What is the full data source configuration, including Advanced
| > Settings?
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: Collaborative Works Solutions

[Doug]

We have used Microsoft's SharePoint Server.  MM's Mindspring is somewhat resource 
intensive for our
needs.


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- Original Message -
From: "Trey Rouse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:45 AM
Subject: Collaborative Works Solutions


| A little off thread, but I'm curious if anyone out here in CF-Talk land
| has had much experience with online collaborative tools solutions.
| Specifically Collaborative Works like document creation, and sharing.
| Looking to evaluate some packages before we decide to just create it
| ourselves.
|
|
|
| Trey Rouse
|
| Internet Project Supervisor
|
| Rice University
|
|
| 
~|
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All users denied access apart from Administrators

[Doug]

Hi,

I have a cf 5.0 server running on IIS win 2000.
I am able to load html pages as any user but only Administrators are able to
load
cf pages. I have tried resetting the security via the iis admin plug in but
is seems to
have no effect.

Has seen this behaviour before ?

Doug.





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RE: jdbc settings???

[doug]

We are using the Oracle driver, the stock one with CFMX enterprise.

Doug

Doug

What driver are you using?

Kola

-Original Message-
From: Douglas Knudsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 22 July 2004 04:41
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: jdbc settings???

yeah, maybe, but if that did work, wrap over 100 cfquery tags in this?
not!
The DBA feels this

SET TRANSACTION ISOLATION LEVEL READ COMMITTED

isn't really neccessary and he wants to see what SQL is actually getting
executed via Oracle

Doug...of the jealous non gmail clan  ;)

-Original Message-
From: Qasim Rasheed [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:25 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: jdbc settings???

I guess you can use  tag with changing the isolation
attribute.

Qasim

- Original Message -
From: Douglas Knudsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:57:39 -0400
Subject: jdbc settings???
To: CF-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

My DBA is saying that

SET TRANSACTION ISOLATION LEVEL READ COMMITTED

is executed by CF on each query. Any way to turn this off?

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duplicate emails and CFMX

[doug]

Anyone see duplicte email issues with CFMX?  Have a couple apps that send 
emails, CFMX is sending the same one twice.  I saw this once before, resarting 
the JRun service nipped it, but restarting CFMX process does not.  Strange.

anyone?

running CFMX in J2EE style on JRun.
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Re: [OT] Zip Code Lookup

[Doug Fentiman]

Tom Nunamaker has a great UDF that calculates the distance between two
lat/long coordinates in statute miles, nauticle miles, kilomters, or
radians! works for any location in the world!

Code can be found at http://toshop.com/udf/latlondist.cfm or contact
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Cheers,

DougF

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Re: Session vs. Client

[Doug Fentiman]

Sandy Clark and Michael Smith wrote an article about how to avoid locking in
your code by the automatic conversion of client and session scopes to
request scope.

http://www.cfug-md.org/Articles/RequestVariables.cfm

 is a custom tag that converts Session or Client scoped
variables to Request scope.

Hope this helps,

DougF

 Original Message -
From: "Everett, Al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 10:10 AM
Subject: Resend: Session vs. Client

| I know the obvious issue with going from SESSION to CLIENT variables (no
| complex data type in CLIENT) but is there anything else I should be aware
| of? Does anyone have a write-up of methods they've used? For instance,
which
| is better: converting out current structures stored in SESSION to WDDX
| packets stored in CLIENT, or using simple ID fields in CLIENT and running
| queries in Application.cfm and putting those queries in the REQUEST scope?

~|
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Re: CFMX + Windows Server 2003

[Doug White]

Yes there are issues, but there are hacks to make it work.  MM is working on a
maintenance upgrade, currently codenamed "Red Shy" which is addressing all these
issues.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Alvarado" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:10 AM
Subject: CFMX + Windows Server 2003


| Hello all,
|
| quick question,
|
| has anyone had any issues with CFMX + Windows Server 2003?
|
| We are about to upgrade and Id like to get some feedback.
|
| Stability? Performance?
|
| Thanks all,
|
|
| -chris.alvarado
| [ application developer ]
| 4 Guys Interactive, Inc.
| http://www.4guys.com 
| phone: 281.807.4344 x1716
| fax: 281.807.4384
|
| "We create websites that make you a hero."
|
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

Actually, Michael, MM is trying to hang their hat on the 16 color thing.  They
are responding to all updater complaints with that now.  But it does the same on
my server, and it has a Nvidia GeForce video card and is running 64 million
colors.

Then they invited me to join the red Sky beta, which I did sign up for, but then
no response ever since.

I guess everyone is celebrating MACR stock now reaching the 20's  and the 401k
is liquid again.



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- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Kear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 12:43 PM
Subject: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...


| I'm very unsatisfied with the attention that Macromedia are paying to the
| problem at my hosting company.   Damon Cooper very generously stepped in to
| help a few  days ago, then passed the problem to one of his support guys and
| since then it's all gone pear-shaped.  There was a couple of phone calls
| back and forth, and they tried some stuff, but suddenly it's stopped.   No
| emails to Macromedia's support are being replied to.   Emails to Damon have
| not been answered. I am worried that they're all going off for the weekend
| leaving this unresolved.
|
| This is totally unsatisfactory.
|
| Here's what they think is an answer ... do you people think this is
| satisfactory?
|
| PROBLEM:
| The sysadmin was trying to apply updater 3, and every time he did,
| ColdFusion would hang.  Damon thought it was caused by the server only
| having 16 colour graphics card instead of 256 colour.
|
|
| WHAT'S BEEN DONE:
| The sysadmin has replaced the card with a 256col card, and tried again to
| reinstall updater3.  Now it seems to install, but CF won't start
| automatically.  Every time the server gets booted, ColdFusion has to be
| manually started.  (I don't consider this to be satisfactory in a large
| shared environment data centre!)
|
| MACROMEDIA'S RESPONSE:
| Here's what the last response says ( and no further correspondence has been
| received in the last few hours from Macromedia - to either me or the
| Sysadmin - we face another weekend with a failed CFMX installation!)
|
| [quote]
| Macromedia: After you install Updater 3, the connector won't work with any
| prior version of CFMX before Updater 3 so you're all set.
| FYI.  Here's the connector FAQ:
| http://www.macromedia.com/support/coldfusion/ts/documents/connector_inst
| all_faq.htm
|
| The service starting issue normally logs this to the event viewer. Windows
| Event log details: System Log The ColdFusion MX Application Server service
| terminated with service-specific error 2 (0x2).
|
| What we found is if you reboot and log in right away, the CF Applcation
| Server service throw this error.  If you wait a minute or two after reboot
| before logging in, services start up fine.
|
| Known bug that currently isn't an easy fix.
|
| As long as you know about this bug (and to start CF manually), it should not
| be too bad.
|
| SYSADMIN: So, this is a know error and what you are saying is that if I
| reboot and wait a few minutes the service will start automatically wihtout
| the need of anyone to start the service manual ?
| [/quote]
|
| So does the system have to be manually started or not?  We can't get them to
| answer.   The MM engineer says at one point if we wait minutes, it'll start,
| and at another point, he says we have to start CF manually.  So which is it?
| Both the SYSADMIN and I have sent emails to try to clarify this and haven't
| got an answer.
|
| Do you people think it's satisfactory to have a CF installation that won't
| start automatically?
|
| Is this common?
|
| What have I done to deserve this? Why can't I have a CF installation
| that bloody well works properly?
|
|
|
| Cheers,
| Michael Kear
| Windsor, NSW, Australia
| AFP Webworks.
|
|
|
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

What a ridiculous comment!   That really shows the intelligence level of a
reader of this list.  MM certainly does have control of the installation
environment, as this is done with scripting in the installer package.

He has related often enough, that the explicit MM installation instructions were
followed.   The Provider reviewed the published system requirements.  The server
meets or exceeds these published requirements.

His is not the only provider having issues with the installation of MX.  There
has been a myriad of white papers and revisions to release notes written and
released by MM, plus hundreds upon hundreds of list and forum postings and most
relate to default installs on a dedicated server.  They seem to have that down
pretty pat.  The multi-homed, or shared server environment is apparently a
different animal.  It shouldn't be.  It wasn't with CF 5.0 and earlier.

I also realize that there are some MM employees that are genuinely concerned
about these issues, and are trying to get the people that are having problems in
contact with the relevant people that should be able to fix them.
Unfortunately, the play is analogous to chickens running around with their heads
cut off.  Perhaps it is a lack of test platforms on which to test the installer.
Perhaps it is a number of reasons.

The original CD-ROM has an installer packaged with a very incomplete
InstallShield packager.  Glaring omissions in the IS scripting is the chaining
of services, the start-up/shut-down/restart services,  scripting to control the
JRUN connectors, etc.  The UD3 is packaged with InstallAnywhere, which is less
than an industry standard installer package, but the install scripting is also
leaving a lot to be desired as far as scripted configuration options go.  Even
if one purchased CFMX today, the initial install package will not include UD3!I
am satisfied that MM is working on it, because by not resolving the problem,
sales will be negatively impacted.  Customer loyalty is clearly being eroded.

No server administrator, whether he does or does not have a developer background
wants to deal with software that is as tedious and difficult to configure as
that sold by Macromedia.  The Install packaging scripting should provide for all
the supported options, and scripting should be included to do all the install
and configuration before the installer package quits.  That is just good
software distribution packaging practices.

Basically, my own position is that if a reader does not have anything positive
to contribute to the solution, then please just use your delete key and skip on
to the next message.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...


|
| Does that, perchance, equate to being a cheap hosting company? And, if so,
| are you now getting exactly what you've paid for?
|
| MM has no control whatsoever over the installation conditions or technical
| competence of those who claim to be hosting providers. Perhaps your public
| anger is better directed at the hosting company rather than the one who
| sells a product that has proven itself (at least in other hands) to be quite
| capable.
|
| Ken

~|
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Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

Here is another silly response from someone with no software packaging
experience.

When one purchases server hardware, high end graphic cards are not as high a
priority as the CPU, motherboard, bus speed, hard drive space, etc.

Second, when one installs such a machine, and does a wipe and then, for instance
installs Win2k SP3, the system will go through all the bumps and grinds and will
end up with a default display setting of 16 colors.  The normal next step is to
install the video, sound, network and whatever drivers are needed.

On my system, when I purchased WebLog Expert as a statistics package, its
installer quickly popped up a message informing the installer that 16 colors
were not supported, and please change your display settings and then run the
installer again.  No problem.

If a software author can add that error trap into his installer package for
software selling for less that $100.00 US, then why cannot MM do exactly the
same with the InstallShield package for CFMX which sells for many thousands of
US dollars??In fact, as I recall, it is only a checkbox in the InstallShield
configuration that will incorporate this checking.

The gripe here is not that the installer would not support 16 colors, but the
fact that there was no mention of it in the installer messages, or in the
"supported platforms" documents.




| This is my last response, I hope.
|
| >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/06/03 05:16PM >>>
| >they didn't tell anyone you had to have more than 16 colours on the graphic
card to install
| >UD3 and now it is broken.
|
| If you were writing software, would it even occur to you to test on a 16 color
graphics card? Where would you even _find_ one?
|

~|
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Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

Thank you Jochem!


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- Original Message - 
From: "Jochem van Dieten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...


| Dave Lyons wrote:
| >
| > I understand its not your fault either but just seeing how the server only
| > had an ancient video card would lead me to believe that the host is
| > seriously cutting corners and if I was you I'd be very concerned about that.
|
| Not installing any video drivers except for the default 800 * 600 16
| colors driver is in the NSA C2 Certification Guidelines for Windows NT.
| Apart from that, it is often a request from users to keep bandwidth
| usage for remote control low. You should not base any conclusions on
| running in 16 color mode before you know the reason to do so.
|
| I run all servers with 16 color video, and that is not because the
| hardware is ancient.
|
| Jochem
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

|
| <<>>
|
|
| I'm sure there are lots of people here who are most interested in the
| outcome.  They've spent most of the night telling me how to organise my life
| and my business without knowing a damn thing about me.
|
|
|
|
|
| <<>>
|
| So do i.
|

Hang in there Michael, even if many of the "flock" know not whereof they speak.
perhaps there will be one with a solution. that works.  I am interested, because
I am experiencing a similar problem.

Doug

~|
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Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

Hey Charlie
I am not proud.  I will give someone remote access to my box with full admin
privileges and let them try to install the updater.

I did finally get CFMX running sans updater.
I even tried it via the command line parameters someone sent to me - no joy.

This is a fresh new box - all the goodies and a fresh OS install with nothing
else (yet) except URLScan (and yes, I know how to configure that to run with CF)
to interfere.
It does have the requirement to support multiple web site (multi-homed)

Doug

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- Original Message - 
From: "Charlie Arehart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 6:30 PM
Subject: RE: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...


| The inability of CFMX to run at startup is not new nor unique to Mike.  My
| machine has suffered the problem for many months. It's not a production
| server but my laptop, so I haven't gotten excited about it, but I can
| understand Mike's frustration with the problem.
|
| I do like some of the solutions that have been offered, and indeed will
| likely apply one of them myself, but in Mike's case if he needs the problem
| solved on a box where the Admin's won't apply one of those fixes, I think
| it's understandable that he wants it solved.
|
| Of course, problems like this can be notoriously difficult to resolve.
| Sometimes they are resolved as user errors, or indeed to configuration
| issues such as the now-infamous 16-color video card. The best we can hope is
| that someone will read this thread and offer the definitive answer, if not
| MM. Then we'll all get and hopefully spread the word so others don't suffer
| it.
|
| /charlie
|

~|
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Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

| > I got $20 that says that this issue has to do with how the host has his
| > system set up & that somewhere in the docs it says that acknowledges it and
| > advises against it & u (jochem) will be the one to point it out as always:)


You lose, you want Michael's PayPal address?  :-)
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Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

| 
| Hope things work out,
| 
| Stace
| 


At least the quoted part of your post makes sense!

Doug
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Re: The End: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

| 
| 
| This is my last communication on any aspect of this entire thread.   At
| least until I can say "... and here's how we fixed it." I'm sure lots of
| people will be most  pleased at this announcement.
| 
| 
| Cheers,
| Michael Kear
| Windsor, NSW, Australia
| AFP Webworks.
| 
| 


Michael, I remain on the edge of my chair!

Doug
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Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

Ha! my problem was somewhat different.  when installing updater 3 from the
console, the system freezes up and after a power down reboot, the OS will not
load to the point of the login screen, requiring the repair disks and recovery
console, manually removing all CFMX stuff, and starting over.

But I doubt all is lost at this point, because I am receiving phone calls and
email from some folks at MM to assist, and perhaps by this time next week, I
will be a happy camper again.  At least I don't have to call the other side of
the planet, like Michael does.

The other bad news was that the Spurs lost game 2 to the Knicks.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Charlie Arehart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 10:04 PM
Subject: RE: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...


| Wow, hopefully someone will take you up on the offer. It's a great way for
| someone who really wants to to be able to solve the problem with a working
| failure (what an oxymoron!)
|
| But it sounds like you're referring to something other than the simple "CFMX
| not starting after reboot", right? Just want to clarify.
|
| /charlie
|
| > -Original Message-
| > From: Doug White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 11:06 PM
| > To: CF-Talk
| > Subject: Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...
| >
| >
| > Hey Charlie
| > I am not proud.  I will give someone remote access to my box with
| > full admin
| > privileges and let them try to install the updater.
| >
| > I did finally get CFMX running sans updater.
| > I even tried it via the command line parameters someone sent to
| > me - no joy.
| >
| > This is a fresh new box - all the goodies and a fresh OS install
| > with nothing
| > else (yet) except URLScan (and yes, I know how to configure that
| > to run with CF)
| > to interfere.
| > It does have the requirement to support multiple web site (multi-homed)
| >
| > Doug
| >
| > ==
| > Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway!
| > For CF hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com
| > ISP rated: http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772
| > ==
| > If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done!
| >
| > - Original Message -
| > From: "Charlie Arehart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 6:30 PM
| > Subject: RE: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...
| >
| >
| > | The inability of CFMX to run at startup is not new nor unique
| > to Mike.  My
| > | machine has suffered the problem for many months. It's not a production
| > | server but my laptop, so I haven't gotten excited about it, but I can
| > | understand Mike's frustration with the problem.
| > |
| > | I do like some of the solutions that have been offered, and indeed will
| > | likely apply one of them myself, but in Mike's case if he needs
| > the problem
| > | solved on a box where the Admin's won't apply one of those
| > fixes, I think
| > | it's understandable that he wants it solved.
| > |
| > | Of course, problems like this can be notoriously difficult to resolve.
| > | Sometimes they are resolved as user errors, or indeed to configuration
| > | issues such as the now-infamous 16-color video card. The best
| > we can hope is
| > | that someone will read this thread and offer the definitive
| > answer, if not
| > | MM. Then we'll all get and hopefully spread the word so others
| > don't suffer
| > | it.
| > |
| > | /charlie
| > |
| >
|
| 
~|
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Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

Please let me know of ANY hosting company that will give a client admin
privileges on a shared server!
That I just got to see!

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- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...


| Mike,
|
| I'm not aware of your exact situation but if you don't have admit access to
| the box then perhaps you might want to consider switching hosting companies?
|

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Re: The End: Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

No problem Stace.

Telephone support for install issues is great, that is if you get the response
you describe.  Unfortunately  that is not the exact same experience others have
had.  In the case of Michael, he is in Australia, his hosting is in the US,   He
stated it was not an option for him to make international calls to the US.  I
also host an Australian web site, and their requests for help via email were
promptly processed, and not delayed in any manner.  Also not every server
software purchaser can budget the license fees, and then add on pricey Bronze
support, just to get installation issues resolved.  Your mileage may vary.

He described that many many messages ago, but he continues to get berated for
not using the telephone, he was accused of not using proper planning, and quite
a few of other non-solutions.  He was accused of bashing Macromedia, unfairly, I
think, because all he is trying to do is to get a problem resolved.  He had
already stated that CFMX was running properly on his local machines(s) which are
the ones under his control.  I can count on the fingers of one hand of people on
this list that were actually trying to help him get his problem resolved.  I
deleted many more of snide comments and superior attitudes, which were not only
unfair, but I feel uncalled for.  Few of the install issues have been raised
when the installation has been done on a single homed server, that is, a default
installation.  This is what the majority are running.  But installing a MM
server product on a multi-homed server, especially one in which the server admin
chooses NOT to allow the default web site to run, is another compartmented issue
entirely.  That is the issue Michael and a few others are trying to get
resolved.  He has not described problems with default installations.

I am very interested in his topic and likewise the solution when it finally
comes.   My own problem with installation is different than his, and I have
dropped attempts to do the install on Win2k, opting instead to accept the
invitation to join the Red Sky Beta program, where I expect to make some input
as to installation issues with Windows 2003 Enterprise.  Once it is installed
and properly tuned for a multi-homed environment, then I will announce that to
the MMUGS to which I offer free hosting, that the advanced platform will be made
available to them.  As for installing on a workstation, and my laptop, I had no
install issues and all is working just fine.   My production servers currently
run CF 5.0 and they are very stable.  My only complaint there, which was more of
a rant, was that one is required to jump through all the required hoops in
configuring the server once the install package has done its thing.  Hopefully,
I will be able to assist them with doing all the required configuration
scripting within the installer packaging and take some of the load off of the
administrator who well may not be a ColdFusion developer type.

My personal experience is with InstallShield packaging, and I do not recall ever
packaging a software package that required additional configuration or editing
server files after the install process.  My belief is that a software publisher
is obligated to do this.

I apologize for this long response, and I hope the message has been delivered
clearly.

Doug

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- Original Message - 
From: "Stacy Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 11:21 PM
Subject: RE: The End: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...


| Hey c'mon, I picked up two used Dell Poweredge 1300 servers
| which I have co-located for contract work. $600 for the two...one acts
| as a staging server in which I run upgrades/patches/updaters. Maybe
| things are pricier down under... ;)
|
| As for the phone support...I wasn't trying to be a smart ass.
| Just trying to point out that the 5-6 times I've had to goto MM for
| support they were quite responsive. Typically an engineer calling me
| back within an hour. (Bronze support? I forget) Anyhow, if it's an issue
| with the software, no charge...which turned out to be the case 3 times.
| Although I should point out the initial part of the call always drove me
| nuts cause they'd always ask for my information over and over again
| hehe...
|
| Anyhow maybe a viable alternative in the future.
|
| Cheers,
|
| Stace
|
| P.S. Doug, if I need to translate this into another language for this to
| make sense to you please let me know, I'll babelfish it. =P
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 10:37 PM
| To

Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

Dave
The reason hosting providers do not allow the default web site to run in Windows
2k, is because that directory is accessible by the IP number of the server.
Most of the internet probes and Trojan attacks are directed to the IP number.
I refer you to http://dshield.org for more information.  This is how we protect
the servers from SQL slammer and other virus/worms,  For instance my own servers
were hit with attempted break-ins over 1500 times just today, and all were
successfully turned back.  Security is how I manage to provide my clients with
the maximum up time, and avoid server crashes.  My clients' comments on the
Forta web site speak for themselves.  Any server software that is to be
installed, must accommodate this security.

But rest assured it is  a "Best Practices" security issue.   All web sites on
the server are accessed by the http header containing the domain name of the web
site.  A requirement of multi-homed servers is that each site must run
independently of the others and not have any parts step on the others.

Setting up your own web site in the wwwroot directory and then hosting other
sites in sub-folders under that is not very secure, although I am sure many
still operate this way.  I see evidence of compromised servers every day.  We
both know that there are many "always on" computer users that do not bother to
even install and maintain an anti-virus program, and are so surprised when their
own machines get compromised.  Others keep a automatic view pane open in their
email program, which allows executable code to run and infect the machine as
soon as email is downloaded.

Having a separate box for each hosted web site is not an efficient way to host
sites, either.

Explanation enough?

- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...


| im sorry, I missed the part where u r being such a big help to everyone.
| so lets hear your words of wisdom:)
|
| In dougs next message he says it pretty clearly
| "especially one in which the server admin chooses NOT to allow the default
| web site to run"
|
| =
|
| I don't think its MM fault that the host chooses to do this.
| Of course if I had a solution I would promptly say what it was.
|
| Its not mikes fault we all know that, im not faulting mike or doug.
| hell I offered to see if I could get mike set up on the server I use & im
| sure a deal coulda been worked out that woulda made him happy but he choose
| not to even acknowledge it. And then others have don't the same & still
| nothing.
| I've had many times where I tried to install something & it didn't work just
| to find out it was because of how I had configured the settling and that =
| my fault.
|
| and many people have offered to help both. But I don't think many people can
| actually do telepathy on their machines to see how they are configured.
|
| so you may not be seeing me as trying to help but I am.
| just the same as u may be trying to help but I don't see it.
|
|
|
|
| - Original Message -
| From: "Dana Tierney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 12:59 AM
| Subject: Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...
|
|
| > yanno maybe I should rescind my vote about this thread staying on talk. Or
| > gee, how about anyone that has an actual suggestion, feel free, anyone
| that
| > just wants to suggest these guys haven't done their homework either hush
| up
| > or take Doug up on his offer.
| >
| > Dana
| >
| > Dave Lyons writes:
| >
| > > course I'd be happy if everyone got it to work:)
| > >
| > > but I think what a lot of people forget is that everything doesn't go
| with
| > > everything else.
| > > like the sun commercial "I just want this too work with that"
| > >
| > > Its like would anyone expect to put  DVD into a cd-rom drive then curse
| it
| > > cause it wont work?
| > >
| > > Or this: I sell this VCD disks on eBay right. And I put right on the ad
| that
| > > it will work with most DVD players, please check your equipment to be
| sure
| > > it's compatible with yours before you buy.
| > > And yet all the time I get emails back all pissed off cause it wont play
| on
| > > their equipment. SO I ask for the model # and I look it up & sure as
| sh*t it
| > > says that it wont play VCD disks right there. So I write the people back
| and
| > > say, well its right there on the front page. But they didn't check.
| > >
| > > I guess my point is that the options or the things you fail to look at
| > > usually e

Re: Very satisfied with Macromedia's stock price trend...

[Doug White]

 
 $21.4600 +0.1000  +0.47% 
 Open 21.5500  
 Bid 21.4600  
 Ask21.4700  
 Bid Size 10  
 Ask Size 2  
 Prev Close 21.3600  
 High 22.  
 Low 21.3500  
 52 Wk High 21.5800  
 52 Wk Low 5.8000  
 Volume 1,076,548  
 Restricted No  
 
  Today's Performance

  


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Re: remote installation - WAS Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

I have sent Jochem the instructions and access off-list.
Colors are set to 16 bit and resolution to 1024x768

I hope my next post is good news!

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- Original Message - 
From: "Jochem van Dieten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...


| Doug White wrote:
| >
| > I am not proud.  I will give someone remote access to my box with full admin
| > privileges and let them try to install the updater.
|
| If you run 16 colors, it is not going to work. If you run 256 colors,
| you can set up pcAnywhere to allow connections from 145.94.154.26
| You migt want to send username and password off-list :-)
|
|
| > I did finally get CFMX running sans updater.
| > I even tried it via the command line parameters someone sent to me - no joy.
|
| I have not seen the properties file for U3 published yet. Would you mind
| putting it online/posting them?
|
| Jochem
|
| 
~|
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Re: remote installation - WAS Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

In my study of the documentation that is written about Windows 2003 Enterprise,
there is a new function, I believe originated with Windows XP.

There is a wizard that will allow one to set a "compatibility mode" for any
application that is installed.  This means you can force compatibility with
Windows95, Windows 98, Windows 98SE, WindowsXP, and Windows 2000.
In testing this wizard, I have a server loaded with a fresh copy of Windows 2003
Enterprise, and wanted to install either Office 2000, or Office XP, neither of
which would install, returning an error message to the effect of "not compatible
with your installed operating system"  I went to the setup.exe file for
Office2000 (after copying the CD to the hard drive) and right clicked and
selected the "compatibility" tab.  There I was offered the choice to change the
setting to Windows2000 compatibility.  After doing this, I double clicked on the
setup.exe file, and the install ran without so much as a burp.  The server is
now able to run Office2K just fine.
I have uninstalled it as of now, and will try the setup for OfficeXP.   If that
works, I will again remove that application suite, and leave the server clean
for the upcoming remote install of CFMXPro and the associated Updater3.   I will
try setting the compatibility mode to Windows2k, and see what happens.

Incidentally, for those who disagreed with me, the CDROM of CFMXPro that I have,
has the install package wrapped in DemoShield, which is a part of the
InstallShield suite of products.   Only the updater is on record as being
packaged with InstallAnywhere.

The Quest continues...

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|

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Re: remote installation - WAS Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

See what happens when an expert makes himself available?

Message just received from Jochem:

Installer runs just fine and CF MX too. Also no problems with the
updater. But when shutting down IIS in order to apply the connectors,
FTP service hung. I ran the connectors anyway. You might need to do some
legwork to fix some IIS issues, because I installed it in the default
website which turned out to be disabled. But
http://localhost:8500/cfide/administrator/index.cfm works.

I used the installation script from
http://www.macromedia.com/support/coldfusion/ts/documents/install_cf_win2003.htm

Jochem


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Re: remote installation - WAS Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

Not yet - it was installed as a standalone, and not multi-hoed - working on that
configuration now.
but at least we got past the freeze up.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: remote installation - WAS Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's
support attention ...


| so is it up and going?
| :)
|
|
| - Original Message -
| From: "Doug White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 12:58 PM
| Subject: Re: remote installation - WAS Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's
| support attention ...
|
|
| > See what happens when an expert makes himself available?
| >
| > Message just received from Jochem:
| >
| > Installer runs just fine and CF MX too. Also no problems with the
| > updater. But when shutting down IIS in order to apply the connectors,
| > FTP service hung. I ran the connectors anyway. You might need to do some
| > legwork to fix some IIS issues, because I installed it in the default
| > website which turned out to be disabled. But
| > http://localhost:8500/cfide/administrator/index.cfm works.
| >
| > I used the installation script from
| >
| http://www.macromedia.com/support/coldfusion/ts/documents/install_cf_win2003
| .htm
| >
| > Jochem
| >
| >
| > ==
| > Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway!
| > For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com
| > ISP rated: http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772
| > ==
| > If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done!
| >
| >
| 
~|
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Re: remote installation - WAS Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

I believe it was a Win2k server Mike's provider was having problems with.

I originally had problems with Win2k, and abandoned that, and got a new server
and installed Win 2003 - This is the one that Jochem installed CFMXPro on, as a
stand alone.

I was getting the freeze up when installing the updater.  First, I changed the
compatibility settings on the install files to force compatibility with Win2000
SP3. Then Jochem installed CFMXPro as a standalone, then the updater3, and
lastly we do the jumping through hoops to do the registry hacks, editing the
config files, mapping the jrun connectors, adding ColdFusion services, and
configuring for a multi-homed (several web sites) server. You know, all the
stuff I was griping about before LOL  After this is the Anti-virus program, the
firewall, etc.

The install procedure followed is:  (plus a few additional steps omitted from
the instructions.)
http://www.macromedia.com/support/coldfusion/ts/documents/install_cf_win2003.htm
Once up and running solid, I will publish step-by-step instructions.  It seems
that the order of installation of modules vs, hacks, is very critical to
success.  Importantly is that Jochem got me past the server freeze-up I had been
experiencing.

In order to access ColdFusion Administrator, the default web site must be
running, which is not a problem, as I can turn it off when not using CF
administrator.

Now to get a CFMX web site on there for testing.

The saga continues.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 3:49 PM
Subject: RE: remote installation - WAS Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's
support attention ...


| So was it Windows 2003 that Mike was having problems with all this time?
| Just curious since I had not seen that critical fact mentioned in the thread
| whereas NT and 2000 were both referenced during various responses.
|
| Ken
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 3:18 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: Re: remote installation - WAS Very unsatisfied with
| Macromedia's support attention ...
|
|
| Ken Wilson wrote:
| > So all this time the OS that Mike's folks were having trouble installing
| to
| > was Windows 2003?
|
| Mike was not the only one having install problems, Doug has had his
| share too.
|
| Jochem
|
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: Block Competitors from Web site

[Doug White]

If he is running any version of IIS, it is a simple matter to block by IP, IP
range, or domain.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Kear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 11:39 AM
Subject: RE: Block Competitors from Web site


| If I read it right, he wants the site to be open,  with all his own
| customers and prospective customers getting access to everything, but
| doesn't want to do his competitors' work for them.  Make them do their
| own homework.   So having closed off areas wouldn't work - his own
| prospective customers wouldn't see what he needs them to see.
|
| I think he just wants to make it difficult for a few well-defined people
| to see what they're up to and pinch all their ideas.
|
| Lots of luck though, I can't see how that's possible.
|
|
|
| Cheers,
| Michael Kear
| Windsor, NSW, Australia
| AFP Webworks.
|
|
|
| > -Original Message-
| > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:11 PM
| > To: CF-Talk
| > Subject: Block Competitors from Web site
| >
| > Hello,
| >
| > Any have any other creative ideas on how to block competitors from
| gaining
| >
| > access to a Web site.
| >
| > My idea, which isn't fool proof is to try and find out what their
| network
| > IP
| > address is and write code in your site wide header to redirect or
| block
| > traffic
| > from a IP sub set, as long you know they company owns the IP sub set.
| >
| > I know the user could just log in fromo their home connection to open
| a TS
| >
| > session outside of their company.  I want to make sure they are
| blocked
| > from
| > the company.
| >
| > Any other ideas?
| >
| >
| > Thanks.
| >
| > D
| >
| >
|
| 
~|
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Re: CF and Mail Engines

[Doug White]

same here- sounds like a major spammer.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Dan O'Keefe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 2:41 PM
Subject: RE: CF and Mail Engines


| 500,000/hour?? Can I get the IP so I can block it?
|
| Dan
| === Previous Message Below ===
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Michael Tangorre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 12:54 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: CF and Mail Engines
|
|
| Does anyone know of a mail engine such as Lyrus that is capable of
| sending thousands of emails per hour (anywhere from 10,000 - 500,000)?
| We are using Lyrus now, and want to0 explore some better options. The
| emails are constructed using CF and are written to a folder on a server
| where the Lyrus engine polls the folder and sends them out
|
| Thanks,
|
| Michael Tangorre
| 
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| www.realmagnet.com
| work - 202-244-7845
| fax - 202-244-7926
| cell - 607-426-9277
| 
|
| 
~|
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Re: ?ISO-8859-1?Q?Release_date_for_coldfusion_mx_II/changes/fixes??Release_date_for_coldfusion_mx_II/changes/fixes

[Doug White]

I don't know the release date, but I would suggest you not hold your breath on
fixes for configuration issues.  This myriad of problems has never seemed to be
very high on MM's radar screen.

They remain the only major software publisher that refuses to adequately develop
the install scripts which will make the required configuration settings as part
of the setup.It remains a PITA to install their software (especially server
software) and still have to research all over the place and then directly edit
the registry, and a myriad of config files in order to get a useable
installation.  All this and their withdrawal from free support for installation
issues is going to bite them, I believe.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Mayer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 9:50 AM
Subject:
?ISO-8859-1?Q?Release_date_for_coldfusion_mx_II/changes/fixes??Release_date_for_
coldfusion_mx_II/changes/fixes


| Hello!
|
| Has there already been set a deadline when the new version of ColdFusion
| will be relased? Will there be any important changes (except the very
| important bug fixes for several bugs and configuration issues)?
|
| What JVM will be the default one?
|
| Best regards,
|
| Peter

~|
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Re: Cold Fusion on Windows 2003 Server Standard

[Doug White]

I have CFMX PRO running on Windows 2003 Enterprise, and I find I must download
and install JDBC drivers to make the database connects.

When I attempted to run updater 3 it crashes the installation, therefore it is
running without the updater, and thus with all the bugs.


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- Original Message - 
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 3:49 PM
Subject: Cold Fusion on Windows 2003 Server Standard


| Well after trying Cold Fusion MX server times on Win 2003 server and reading
| the "hack" to get it to wok I have given up.  I did get Cold fusion to work
| and was able to test it.  But when I try to add dsn's through the admin I
| keep getting a java error.
|
| So now I am going back down to CF 5.0, has anyone had any luck in getting it
| to install?
| - Original Message - 
| From: "Janine Jakim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 3:14 PM
| Subject: RE: Quick question- get rid of 1st 2 characters
|
|
| > Thanks
| >
| > -Original Message-
| > From: Bill Henderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 2:53 PM
| > To: CF-Talk
| > Subject: RE: Quick question- get rid of 1st 2 characters
| >
| >
| > Sorry, brain fart, it's:
| >
| > newstring = right( string,( len( string ) - 2 ) )
| >
| > -Original Message-
| > From: Janine Jakim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 11:24 AM
| > To: CF-Talk
| > Subject: Quick question- get rid of 1st 2 characters
| >
| > I know I know this, yet the answer isn't coming immediately...
| > I just need to strip the 1st 2 charaters off a field before sending it to
| > the database.  So if this is typed in LV1234 I only want the 1234.
| > Left won't work because the part on right side can be a variable
| length
| > thanks,
| > j
| >
| >
| >
| 
~|
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Re: Cold Fusion on Windows 2003 Server Standard

[Doug White]

I sure did - my instructions are to install it as a standalone, then registry
and config hacks to change it .  That was the only way I could get it to work.

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- Original Message - 
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: Cold Fusion on Windows 2003 Server Standard


| Doug,
|
| I do have one question:  While installing CFMX Enterprise I had got a
| strange error.  During the installation where you choose the folders
| c:\funsionmx and below it you choose the path to wwwroot.  I could not
| change the path for wwwroot.  The default path it had listed was "\" and if
| I clicked change I got an error ("\ invalid path") and if I clicked next I
| got the same error, but when I click OK the setup would fail and give me
| only the option to finish.
|
| I solved this by installing cf on standard web server @ port 8500 and then
| copying the cfide and cfdocs to wwwroot and creating my virtual folders.
|
| My question have you seen this before?
|
| David
| - Original Message - 
| From: "Doug White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 5:40 PM
| Subject: Re: Cold Fusion on Windows 2003 Server Standard
|
|
| > I have CFMX PRO running on Windows 2003 Enterprise, and I find I must
| download
| > and install JDBC drivers to make the database connects.
| >
| > When I attempted to run updater 3 it crashes the installation, therefore
| it is
| > running without the updater, and thus with all the bugs.
| >
| >
| > ==
| > Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway!
| > For CF hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com
| > ISP rated: http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772
| > ==
| > If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done!
| >
| > - Original Message - 
| > From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 3:49 PM
| > Subject: Cold Fusion on Windows 2003 Server Standard
| >
| >
| > | Well after trying Cold Fusion MX server times on Win 2003 server and
| reading
| > | the "hack" to get it to wok I have given up.  I did get Cold fusion to
| work
| > | and was able to test it.  But when I try to add dsn's through the admin
| I
| > | keep getting a java error.
| > |
| > | So now I am going back down to CF 5.0, has anyone had any luck in
| getting it
| > | to install?
| > | - Original Message - 
| > | From: "Janine Jakim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > | To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > | Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 3:14 PM
| > | Subject: RE: Quick question- get rid of 1st 2 characters
| > |
| > |
| > | > Thanks
| > | >
| > | > -Original Message-
| > | > From: Bill Henderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| > | > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 2:53 PM
| > | > To: CF-Talk
| > | > Subject: RE: Quick question- get rid of 1st 2 characters
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > Sorry, brain fart, it's:
| > | >
| > | > newstring = right( string,( len( string ) - 2 ) )
| > | >
| > | > -Original Message-
| > | > From: Janine Jakim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| > | > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 11:24 AM
| > | > To: CF-Talk
| > | > Subject: Quick question- get rid of 1st 2 characters
| > | >
| > | > I know I know this, yet the answer isn't coming immediately...
| > | > I just need to strip the 1st 2 charaters off a field before sending it
| to
| > | > the database.  So if this is typed in LV1234 I only want the 1234.
| > | > Left won't work because the part on right side can be a variable
| > | length
| > | > thanks,
| > | > j
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| >
| 
~|
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Re: Quick note from the CF Team....

[Doug White]

Thank you for that, Damon.

Hopefully what ever the MM team does, a part of the energy is spent on the
InstallShield (or whichever installer you choose) scripting, which will help the
user install the server product on a multi-homed server, and not the very
insecure default web site (wwwroot)  Should virtual directories need creating
and/or choices need to be made, this should all be done via the installer
scripts.  I also hope and pray that the improvements when released, will not
require customers to re-purchase the product just to get it to install.

For those who install the product on a single homed server, rarely are install
problems encountered.

Also kudos to Sean and others of the MM marketing team, even though some of them
prefer to use Macs (grin) for their attempts to help, and for communicating the
users' problems up the line.

A lesser concern is the uninstaller routine, it should be scripted to do a
complete and clean removal of the product on the first run of the installer.

For Michael, the installation of UD3 is not specific to SQL2000 database, it
crashes the entire server, as in lockup.  The log files usually always indicate
errors with JRUN.  If anyone has comments or additions to my procedures, please
let me know and I will add them to the page.

On the other hand, the installation on Red Hat Linux 9.0 and Apache 2.xx  was
straight forward and went right the first try.   My Linux sysadmin had nothing
but good to say about it.

I look forward to becoming (again) an enthusiastic evangelist for ColdFusion.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Damon Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 6:32 PM
Subject: Quick note from the CF Team


| Folks,
|
| Let me just jump in here and say that, on behalf of the ColdFusion team, we
care very much about configuration and other issues that customers have told us
about, and we've been working very, very hard over the last several months to
systematically gather, categorize, prioritize, hunt down and address them,
one-by-one.
|
| We've scoured the forums, CF-Talk, our own Bug Tracker, Tech Support logs and
other sources going back to the CF 3.0 days and beyond to make sure we focused
energy on the issues customers have told us matter most to them, and with the
full-team focus we've been able to dedicate to this effort, I'm convinced we are
about to enter a very exciting period for Internet application developers, and a
virtual re-birth of the ColdFusion product.
|
| These next few months are going to be an exciting time to be a ColdFusion
customer.  Not since ColdFusion 5 have I witnessed such total determination and
single-minded, team-wide laser-focus on raising the ColdFusion customer
satisfaction bar.  With the full support of executive management and the
blessing of our customer advisory board, we've focused significant energy in
improving the things you told us to focus on.
|
| Let me also add that I'm very proud to be working for one of the most
dedicated, customer- and quality-focused software development teams on the
planet, bar none.  I sincerely hope that as soon as we can get the fruits of
this work out to you, you'll agree that we really are listening to you, and
we're not going to stop.  Without you, we might as well pack it up and go home.
We know you depend on us to deliver high quality products for delivering
powerful Internet apps of all shapes and sizes, faster and easier than any
competing technology, so please keep the feedback coming.  This is your product.
|
|
| Damon Cooper
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Dir Engeering, CF
| 617-219-2025

~|
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Re: Quick note from the CF Team....

[Doug White]

Perhaps some of you "Install solution providers" can document your install
procedures to assist others that seem to be having problems.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Clint Tredway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: Quick note from the CF Team


| I have installed MX and the updaters on multiple Win2k and XP(Home & pro)
| with no problems whatsoever..
|
| Clint
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Greg Luce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 8:21 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: RE: Quick note from the CF Team
|
|
| Holy crap! I was just about to look into upgrading some servers starting
| Monday. There are still issues installing MX? WTF? Was MX released
| without proper beta-testing? People are being left with their arse
| hanging out? Yikes. Between the crazy new MM website rollout, and folks
| still having issues just trying to get the app installed, how do I
| justify the risk of upgrading? It sounds like a huge can of worms.
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 8:14 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: Re: Quick note from the CF Team
|
|
| Is he having a problem with the SQL services not starting after UD3 is
| put in? If so, it's a very rare error that I've experienced and can walk
| him through. If not
|
|
| > Thank you Damon, and I'd be expecting nothing less from a company with
|
| > a superior product wanting to deliver superior service.
| >
| > So what do I tell my Sysadmin who still can't install Updater3 after 3
|
| > weeks now?  Do we have to reformat our hard drive and then reinstall
| > everything else, then reload all the web sites and then retest them
| > all?
| >
| > What happens when I need to install CFMX on my other dev server, and
| > it doesn't have a raw, unmodified WinXPPro because it's had MS
| > updaters and security patches applied?
| >
| >
| >
| > Cheers,
| > Michael Kear
| > Windsor, NSW, Australia
| > AFP Webworks.
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > -Original Message-
| > From: Damon Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| > Sent: Monday, 2 June 2003 9:32 AM
| > To: CF-Talk
| > Subject: Quick note from the CF Team
| >
| > Folks,
| >
| > Let me just jump in here and say that, on behalf of the ColdFusion
| > team, we care very much about configuration and other issues that
| > customers have told us about, and we've been working very, very hard
| > over the last several months to systematically gather, categorize,
| > prioritize, hunt down and address them, one-by-one.
| >
| > We've scoured the forums, CF-Talk, our own Bug Tracker, Tech Support
| > logs and other sources going back to the CF 3.0 days and beyond to
| > make sure we focused energy on the issues customers have told us
| > matter most to them, and with the full-team focus we've been able to
| > dedicate to this effort, I'm convinced we are about to enter a very
| > exciting period for Internet application developers, and a virtual
| > re-birth of the ColdFusion product.
| >
| > These next few months are going to be an exciting time to be a
| > ColdFusion customer.  Not since ColdFusion 5 have I witnessed such
| > total determination and single-minded, team-wide laser-focus on
| > raising the ColdFusion customer satisfaction bar.  With the full
| > support of executive management and the blessing of our customer
| > advisory board, we've focused significant energy in improving the
| > things you told us to focus on.
| >
| > Let me also add that I'm very proud to be working for one of the most
| > dedicated, customer- and quality-focused software development teams on
|
| > the planet, bar none.  I sincerely hope that as soon as we can get the
|
| > fruits of this work out to you, you'll agree that we really are
| > listening to you, and we're not going to stop.  Without you, we might
| > as well pack it up and go home.  We know you depend on us to deliver
| > high quality products for delivering powerful Internet apps of all
| > shapes and sizes, faster and easier than any competing technology, so
| > please keep the feedback coming.  This is your product.
| >
| >
| > Damon Cooper
| > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| > Dir Engeering, CF
| > 617-219-2025
| >
| >
| >
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: Quick note from the CF Team....

[Doug White]

There usually aren't issues on the default installs.  Dev edition installs on my
workstation and laptop have been no-brainers.

Where the issues come up is when the web server is hosting sites on a different
drive(s) and are serving web sites other than the default wwwroot directory.  We
call these "multi-homed" servers.  There are still issues with the install, and
even greater ones with the updaters.   This is not just my imagination, nor is
it incompetence in server administration.  This is not hardware problems as the
server hardware is state of the art.

If you are hosting a default site, there are few reported install problems.

There are good reasons to keep the default web site turned off, and continue to
run the client sites.  These are reachable through the http header information,
and are not addressable via the IP number or by 127.0.0.1
There are also good reasons to keep all the MS security patches updated and
applied.  Rarely do these break applications, and when they do it is usually
because the software publisher is not writing to the API using best practices.

There are good reasons to block 443-445 ports, and assign unique port numbers
for SQL server in the DSN as well.

There are good reasons to have installed and running a good anti-virus program.

There are good reasons to have multiple IP numbers assigned to the same server,
and server software must play nice with all of them.

Web servers, especially IIS servers are under constant attack from all over the
planet, and it is imperative that a security conscious provider provide maximum
uptime as well as a secure environment.   An example of the onslaught of
penetration attempts may be seen at http://www.dshield.org.

The bottom line for me is that if a server product will not play nice with my
security requirements, it just will not get purchased or installed.  I seriously
doubt my requirements are unique in the industry. CF 5.0 has been a good and
stable product for me, and I, as do many others, would like to be able to offer
the added features of CFMX.  I much prefer to spend my time marketing my
services, instead of trying to resolve install issues. As a user group leader, I
want to also be able to evangelize the product among my local community of
users.  As a minor stockholder, I want to be proud of my investment as well.

It is heartening to read that the CF team will be addressing these issues.


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- Original Message - 
From: "Josh Trefethen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 10:21 PM
Subject: RE: Quick note from the CF Team


| Actually, I haven't had a problem on WinXP Pro.  I installed CFMX with
| U3 on my laptop which runs WinXPPro with a whole bunch of software and
| security patches, including McAfee AntiVirus Online installed, along
| with 30 Gigs of other junk, and it works great.  I use it as a
| development/demo system.
|
| --
| Josh Trefethen
|

~|
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Re: Before you rush to tell me what to do ... (was: Quick note from the CF Team....)

[Doug White]

You tell 'em, Mike.You are getting some really stupid suggestions to your
real problem.  I definitely do not agree with the opinion that has been advanced
that your issues are unique to you and very rare.

There is no reason to migrate the operating system on your developer box if the
current system will do the job.
The MM published software requirements clearly state that they support WinXP and
for this reason one cannot blame the operating system for broken software, or
broken software installation packaging.

I am sure, as do many of us, our developer machines are loaded with  myriad of
software tools with which we do our jobs, and it is reasonable to expect a
software package advertised to support your operating system to do just that,
and play nice with whatever else is already installed.

In reviewing archives of talk lists, many forums, including those on the MM
servers, the vast majority of questions over the past two years (I did not
research further back) relate to install problems and update problems.   The
single most frustrating experience anyone can have is the most frequent response
from MM Support, and that is the boilerplate response that tells you to read the
documentation, and then drops the ball.
This is not to say that there are a number of MM users who have not experienced
problems.  The good news is that there is a core of dedicated users who are
willing to take upon themselves the job of digging right in and helping where
they can.  There is a core of MM marketing people who frequent some of the lists
that take a personal interest in assisting where they can, and for this, kudos
are awarded.

In my own experience, after purchasing FCS, and sending in a support request for
an install issue, I did not even receive the boilerplate response, instructing
me to read the documentation, for FIVE months after the support request.  I
never, to this date got any further response from Tech support, and it is now
over a year since the purchase.  After becoming a pest on the mmug manager list,
I was finally put in touch with one person (who incidentally was far more
experienced with Mac and OSX than windows), who spent a great deal of time on
the phone trying to resolve the problem I was having.  It was never resolved,
but not because he did not try.  This person works for MM in marketing, not Tech
support. The end result is that we have discontinued our attempts to use the
software, and cannot recommend it to anyone.  We do not consider it in our best
interests to make an additional purchase for an upgraded version.

My own production servers run Windows2k Adv server, and Red Hat Linux 7.3, all
running CF 5.0, (manually updated when required) and have served us and our
clients well.   We managed to get CFMX PRO to install and run on Red Hat 9.0,
(including the updater). We support databases including Access, SQL2000 (sp3),
Oracle 9i, SAP, MySQL, and Postgres.  We have a new server on which I have
installed Windows 2003 Enterprise server and managed to get CFMX Pro installed
with considerable hacking, but cannot install updater 3 because basically the
updater does not support this platform.  The individual files in updater 3 are
not separately available, nor is adequate documentation which would allow me to
tackle a manual install, and then write a review on the procedures required to
be a success.  I am waiting for MM to announce and then publish support for
Windows 2003 at which time we will revisit the updater issue.  In the meantime
the product will be running without the updater(s)  I especially like the
remoting feature which does not require terminal services to be running, and
allows me to configure the box as if I were at the console.

We are quite excited about the upcoming release of Microsoft RTC server, having
participated in the beta, which should fit nicely into our video conferencing
packages available to clients, at reasonable cost.


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- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Kear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 7:58 AM
Subject: Before you rush to tell me what to do ... (was: Quick note from the CF
Team)


| -Original Message-
| Thomas Chiverton said:  If it's a dev box though, why not run 2K on it like
| the actual server ?
|
|
|
|
| Why? Why would I pull down my system all over again and install Win2k?  What
| would that give me that I don't get now from WinXPPRO?  This is my Dev
| machine which I also use as my personal PC.  I am always interested in
| better ways to do things but they have to make business sense.  I'm not on
| salary  - like a great many on this list,  I earn my living by charging for
| work done.
|
| I have 

Re: Before you rush to tell me what to do ... (was: Quick note from the CF Team....)

[Doug White]

Dave; I have the highest level of respect for all you are doing and have done in
support of the CF community,

Where I digress from your observation, is not that a developer need not know
about operating systems, in fact they should.  Not all developer environments
utilize developers as network people.  Perhaps in yours, but not in all. Network
administrators, and system administrators usually have specific duties and
responsibilities, such as uptime, content availability, intrusion detection and
avoidance, and other security related matters.
In many companies, the duties and responsibilities of developers is completely
separate from that of the system admins, and this is especially true if the
production servers are at a remote location.  While it is usually less difficult
from a technical point of view for a developer to create work-arounds from
broken installer packages, and to make a variety of server software work
together in as seamless a fashion as can be, the system admins are the ones who
are usually tasked with the install, testing, and bringing online server
software.  They are usually pretty good at following install instructions, and
tech notes, but having the ear of top management, they can get frustrated and
are skillful at communicating the difficulties of installs.  Larger
organizations have separated the duties of developers and administrators,
mostly, I believe, due to cost control.

My considered opinion is that install packaging and its associated scripting
should all be straight forward, and include whatever is needed to complete an
install on whatever platform the documentation says it should support.  All
configuration settings should either be indicated as choices during the install,
or a wizard included that will assist the administrator in completing the
configuration.  There should be included sufficient error trapping and log files
that will clearly disclose what and where the problems, if any can be found.
Any, and I emphasize any, scripting that should be run, and this includes batch
files should be run by the installer script engine, and not require the admin to
follow a checklist of hacks to the registry and configuration files, in order to
get it to work. This latter will assist the operator to intelligently
communicate with the appropriate Technical support.  Additionally, technical
support should not only be immediately available, but sufficiently qualified to
render aid for any and all supported platforms.

As one who has spent a number of years in software development, and packaging
with InstallShield and Wise installer, I think I know whereof I speak.

As for Windows 2003, I father disagree with the opinion that it will not become
popular for some time.  It can be characterized as Windows XP on steroids, and
combining the stability of Win2k.  It has a huge marketing budget, and I expect
it to be in wide use in a very short time.  When combined with Office 2003, and
the included RCT functionality, It will no doubt, in my mind, become an awesome
platform.  Those who delay embracing the technology, will become behind the
curve, so to speak. IMHO.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Watts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 9:26 AM
Subject: RE: Before you rush to tell me what to do ... (was: Quick note from the
CF Team)


|
| As inappropriate as it may seem, web developers are often by necessity
| "network people". That's not to say you have to know everything about
| network or system administration - I certainly don't, for example. But you
| will find that the more about this that you, the developer, know, the fewer
| problems you'll have when dealing with the unexpected. After all, web
| applications are network applications - they're not used on a single system,
| but have interactions between web servers, application servers, database
| servers, and clients.
|
| > I have neither the free days (I run a very small business
| > by myself!) nor the $1000 to spend on yet another course
| > to learn how to set up Win2K since Win2003 is only around
| > the corner unless I can see a pressing advantage for
| > doing so.
|
| It'll probably be a while before Windows Server 2003 becomes popular for
| general web hosting, though. In my limited experience with it, I like it a
| lot; I like a lot of the changes in IIS 6, for example. But the fact is that
| I don't see hosting providers migrating any time soon, if for no other
| reason than the activation process - I wouldn't be surprised if that throws
| a wrench in the system deployment process. So, since Win2K is here for a
| while, I suspect you'd be well-served to learn it.
|
| Also, y

Re: "Red Sky" Preview, Known Issues Update, and Installation Support

[Doug White]

If all the installation and configuration issues have been addressed and solved,
and it supports Win2003/IIS6  it will be the answer to my dreams!
"Completely rewritten installer package"   hmm?
Also interesting is the absence of installation and configuration issues on the
known issues listing.
And it says it will be a free upgrade for registered users.

I AM A REGISTERED USER! :-)


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- Original Message - 
From: "Damon Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 2:08 PM
Subject: "Red Sky" Preview, Known Issues Update, and Installation Support


| Hey folks, some info you might find handy:
|
| 1. ColdFusion "Red Sky" Release Preview:
|
| a) Check out CF "Red Sky" Release preview info here:
| http://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/presentation/redsky
| (Beta Participants, please note you are still under NDA...thanks!)
|
| b) Apply for the CF "Red Sky" Beta program here:
| http://www.macromedia.com/go/cfmxbeta
|
|
| (BTW, one of the production http://www.macromedia.com servers is running on
the Red Sky Beta release.)
|
|
| 2. CF "Known Issues" List:
|
| We're in the process of updating the CF "Known Issues" list (should be updated
in the next day or so):
|
| http://www.macromedia.com/support/coldfusion/issues.html
|
| So watch this page.  If you're experiencing an issue listed here, we're on it.
If it's not listed here, please let us know about it by either:
|
| a) Joining the "Red Sky" Beta program and entering a Beta bug report, or
| b) Entering it here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/?6213=3
|
|
| 3. CF Installation Support:
|
| For anyone experiencing product installation issues, a reminder that the
mechanism to use for CFMX "installation issues" (as defined on the page link) is
via email here:
|
| http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/isupport/
|
|
|
|
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: "Red Sky" Preview, Known Issues Update, and Installation Support

[Doug White]

|
| Can we get a list of some of the customer defined issues that are being
| dealt with?
| (The presentation mentioned over 400)
|
| Or should we just wait for the release notes when Red Sky is out.
|
| -Gel
|


One submitted by me is the installation and configuration for different
platforms issues.  It is a PITA to have to jump through hoops after running the
install, doing things like starting/stopping services, editing config files,
manually running multiple batch files, and hacking into the registry on the
server.

The presentation implied that these were addressed, and I will hopefully wait
and see.

Will we have to download the upgrade, or will MM automatically distribute CDs
via mail to registered users?
Also will it actually be a maintenance release, or a full installation from
scratch?  What I mean is does the registered owner have to run a crippled
original install and then apply the maintenance release, and expect it to solve
all the problems?

~|
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Re: Before you rush to tell me what to do ... (was: Quick note from the CF Team....) --- UPDATE ON MIKE'S ISSUE...

[Doug White]

Ahhh, I see!   Server purchasers do not as a custom spend a lot on video cards,
however, there should have been a big error notice on the screen when that
happens.

I would be interested in the script or command line code to run the updated in
"silent mode" and what configuration options I would have, so as not to lock up
the server. I did not see that in the docs.

In my case, the machine has an NVIDIA 64 video card, so screen resolution,
colors would not be an issue.
it is set at 1284x1024 and 32 million colors at present.

In fact, if there is someone who is really competent on updater installs, I can
grant them remote access, and then they can run it for me.  (grin, and begging)

I think it would really help my blood pressure as well as my attitude if I
became a happy camper again! :-)

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- Original Message - 
From: "Damon Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 3:46 PM
Subject: Before you rush to tell me what to do ... (was: Quick note from the CF
Team) --- UPDATE ON MIKE'S ISSUE...


| FYI: (if anyone's keeping track), it looks a lot like the issue Mike's ISP guy
was having was due to running the Updater installer under 16 colors (256 or
higher required, or you can use the "silent installer" with pre-loaded options).
|
| The Updater installer would spin CPU at 100% or just exit, I believe.
|
| 256 colors or higher is a known ZeroG "InstallAnywhere" requirement...there's
an open case at ZeroG.  We'll make sure we check for this if possible, or at
least be crystal clear in system requirements for Windows going forward if this
turns out to be the problem, since it runs on Java and uses Swing.
|
| More to come
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: "Red Sky" Preview, Known Issues Update, and Installation Support

[Doug White]

I did!

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- Original Message - 
From: "Jochem van Dieten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: "Red Sky" Preview, Known Issues Update, and Installation Support


| Doug White wrote:
| >
| > One submitted by me is the installation and configuration for different
| > platforms issues.  It is a PITA to have to jump through hoops after running
the
| > install, doing things like starting/stopping services, editing config files,
| > manually running multiple batch files, and hacking into the registry on the
| > server.
| >
| > The presentation implied that these were addressed, and I will hopefully
wait
| > and see.
|
| Why not join and try?
|
| Jochem
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: ...But the pages are there!

[Doug White]

funny, when I click on that link I get a redirect to a well known spamvertised
web site!

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- Original Message - 
From: "Richard Crawford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:20 AM
Subject: ...But the pages are there!


| Thanks to all who replied to my question about "index 55, size 33".  I
| deleted the .class files, and that seems to have solved the problem.  Now,
| however, I have a different problem.
|
| How can it be possible that my server doesn't see files that are actually
| there?  For example, I tell my browser to browse to
| http://mysite.com/pages/page1.cfm; I receive a "file not found" error from
| Cold Fusion, but when I examine the directory structure, the file is most
| definitely there.
|
| 
~|
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Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

icating but some
| > of this bashing of them is complete Bullsh*t.
| >
| > I understand people are frustrated but come on!
| >
| > I don't know about mike yet but it looks like the problem that Doug is
| > having has to do with IIS stalling & last I had checked, even though there
| > hasn't been a take over rumor this week, is that IIS = M$ and MM is not M$,
| > therefore not MM problem to deal with.
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > - Original Message -
| > From: "mark brinkworth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 3:07 AM
| > Subject: RE: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...
| >
| >
| > > Somebody within Macromedia should 'own' the problem,
| > > and ensure
| > >
| > > a) that it is being dealt with within Macromedia
| > > b) that the client is regularly informed as to the
| > > status of their problem.
| > >
| > > That person need not be a developer.
| > >
| > > Cheers
| > >
| > >  --- Angel Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I
| > > completely understand how this happens.
| > > >
| > > > As a web developer I remember getting asked several
| > > > times by management
| > > > to 'call the client'...in the middle of coding
| > > > something.
| > > > I sat there thinking," Call the client? To say what
| > > > that we haven't
| > > > figured it out yet?" and most of the time went back
| > > > to coding ;-)
| > > >
| > > > After reading what you're saying..I can see how the
| > > > communication is
| > > > important when one puts themselves in the position
| > > > of the client.
| > > > Though I still don't think the developers should be
| > > > doing the calling
| > > > ^_^
| > > >
| > > > -Gel
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > -Original Message-
| > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| > > >
| > > > Christian,
| > > >
| > > > I don't care to get into the middle of this but
| > > > after reading this post
| > > > one of your comments tended to jump out at me.  The
| > > > fact that there's
| > > > been some internal email on the topic really doesn't
| > > > mean squat to a
| > > > customer who's trying to figure out WHY nobody is
| > > > communicating with
| > > > HIM.
| > > >
| > > > I've had this EXACT same problem with Macromedia
| > > > (and other companies
| > > > such as Microsoft, etc.) who for some reason seem to
| > > > think it's
| > > > perfectly ok to leave the customer hanging out
| > > > there.  I've told
| > > > Macromedia people in the past "Look, I understand
| > > > these things take time
| > > > to fix.  I don't care if you have an answer for me
| > > > today but I do want
| > > > SOME form of communication EVERY DAY, even if you're
| > > > just calling or
| > > > writing to tell me you don't have an answer yet.  At
| > > > least I know I
| > > > haven't been forgotten."
| > > >
| > > > Seems like such a simple concept and yet many
| > > > companies (and even people
| > > > in
| > > > general) just don't get it.  There's absolutely no
| > > > excuse for poor
| > > > communication.  It takes all of 30 seconds to send
| > > > an email saying:
| > > >
| > > > "Hey Mr. Smith, just wanted to let you know we're
| > > > still looking into
| > > > this and haven't forgot about you."
| > > >
| > > > It's been my experience that tech support is a lot
| > > > like web
| > > > programming... if you give someone a "Please Wait"
| > > > screen on a form
| > > > submission... they're a lot more likely to wait
| > > > patiently.  If you just
| > > > give them a blank page... they tend to hit the
| > > > reload a lot. ;-)
| > > > Feedback is often overlooked.
| > > >
| > > > Just my 2 cents.
| > > > -Novak
| > > >
| > > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| 
~|
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Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

You are cool Stace.
You are far too valuable a resource for us CF challenged folks to get
permanently cross-wise with ya.

Good luck on dumping the habit - I know you will save enough money to buy a cool
new computer!

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- Original Message - 
From: "Stacy Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 10:43 PM
Subject: RE: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...


| Hey folks,
|
| This is OT but I just wanted to apologize for the useless, opinionated
| crap I tossed in this thread earlier. I've been off smokes for 5 days
| now so I'm blaming this alter-ego on nicotine withdrawal if that's ok.
| ;)
|
| Cheers!
|
| Stace
|
|

~|
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Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...

[Doug White]

There may not be a technical difference in your mind, but I differ slightly, in
my own opinion.  Disclaimer: I am in no way putting down your great efforts to
assist.

First, the install script should not require installation in the web root., or
at least allow options.
Second, most all, if not all configuration, registry changes, should properly be
contained within the install script, with the operator be given options for
his/her particular needs.  All service shutdown and startup and connector
destruction/creation and rebooting rightfully belongs within the install script,
and should not be relegated to a hacking scenario.  This is only following  best
practices for install packaging.  There are several error traps and messages
that are missing, which mislead the operator which are normally included as a
matter of course in most software install packages. The documentation is another
point of contention.  It is incomplete, has vital omissions, needs better
organization and in some cases misleading..  Now this is an observation, and I
have been told all this will be addressed in the Red Sky endeavor.  The current
situation is that the CFMX installation requires more time, and many more
intricate steps than the original installation of the operating system.  This
just should not be.  Diligently following the step by step instructions in the
link
http://www.macromedia.com/support/coldfusion/ts/documents/install_cf_win2003.htm
does not leave the server in a "completed" condition, ready for uploading of web
sites and database connector (ODBC/JDBC configuration.

After I walk through this a couple of more times, I will publish an itemized
link, where additional care must be undertaken.  I am almost done, I think.
Were it not for the promises being made in the Red Sky project, I would probably
endeavor to create the required scripting which will augment the installation
procedures.

Third, how does one convert the stand alone installation to a "normal" IIS
installation?  Am I stuck with ports 8500?

The next MAJOR project is to get Michael's situation taken care of with his
hosting provider.   I believe it is an incumbent obligation of not only MM but
all CF experts to assist in resolving that problem.  Hopefully, I am gaining
experience that will assist in contributing to a solution there as well.

Jochem, you have definitely earned a pay check from MM (or at least some stock
options) It is up to 21.46 at last close.   You did not have to disable
the Anti-virus, or modify the firewall.  Secondly, a remote installation can be
accomplished, even though there have been posts to the contrary, in fact I had
been told on the telephone by a MM engineer that a remote installation could not
be done and that I would be required to actually be at the server console.

Now, is there anyone who has a non-critical web site that they would like to
have an opportunity for FREE hosting, say for a period of one year, to assist in
final tweaking and tuning?  Database option will be Access, SQL2000, Oracle 9i,
or SAP.  (judges decisions will be final, and only one will be accepted.) 

Viable alternative available.   The installation of CFMX on Linux 7.3/8.0 and
9.0 with Apache server 2.x was very straight forward, and was up and running
within 2 hours after installation started.  This included updater3.  Very little
"tweaking" was required, and only common sense setting in CF administrator will
avoid the CPU runaway some have been experiencing.  What this means that if you
have badly coded queries, they will be halted, and not allowed to run and
consume server resources.  This shows that I did something right.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Jochem van Dieten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: Very unsatisfied with Macromedia's support attention ...


| Dana Tierney wrote:
|
| > well yeah, except that it appears that there is a problem with a specific
| > KIND of installation, on shared servers.
|
| There is no technical difference between a shared server and a dedicated
| server. Only after you have installed CF you create the difference by
| configuring it differently. (Or maybe not, the precautions taken to
| separate users from eachother make a lot of sense on most dedicated
| servers as well.)
|
| Jochem
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: Update on the Installer "Freeze" & Failure to Auto-Start on Windo ws Issues...

[Doug White]

Thanks for the communication, Damon.

I am sure many of us are excited about a soon-to-come solution.  I know I am.  I
am sure it will help Michael's blood pressure as well! 

The less-than 256 bit color display is reproducible on most any machine, by
switching to the default vga driver.   You can always change it back after
testing, regardless of the video card setup.

I just checked the Add/remove listing on my developer box (Win2k) and see that
Java 2 runtime Environment, SE shows both v1.4.0_01 and v1.4.0_03.  I  don't see
a listing for java runtime on either my Win2k server (CF 5.0) or my Win2003
server (CFMX Pro)  I have no idea is this has any significance at all.

Most hosting providers will leave the default video driver in place, to reduce
resource requirements while the server is up and running, however, it is not
much of a problem to switch to 256 colors (or more) when install packages
require it.  Most of them do, from what I have seen.  Important here is that the
installer kick up an error message if the color setting is not high enough.  I
have seen this "reminder" a number of times.

I, for one will be glad to test whatever scenario you come up with.

Jochem accessed my Win2003 server, remotely,  yesterday and successfully
installed CFMXPro on the machine  and while it is installed as a stand-alone, it
did complete the install with updater 3, and rebooted without the freeze-up
experienced before.  I am going to test this procedure a few more times, to make
sure I have the steps in the correct order and down pat.  In the meantime, I
want to install a web site that uses CFMX for non-critical test purposes and
continue the saga.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I am not experiencing this with Linux/Apache
installs.  These are no-brainers compared to the Windows issues.


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- Original Message - 
From: "Damon Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 9:41 AM
Subject: Update on the Installer "Freeze" & Failure to Auto-Start on Windo ws
Issues...


| I've not had the cycles to keep up with the feeding frenzy this has turned
into, but I thought I'd update everyone on where we are regarding the 2 issues
reported and discussed here at the one machine at Mike's hosting site:
|
| 1) ZeroG Java-based Updater installer hang.
|
| It took us a little while to track this down (we had to find a machine with
less-than 8-bit color display capability...harder than you'd think these days).
|
| Here's the scoop:
|
| a) For the GUI-based installer, a minimum of 8-bit color depth (256 colors) is
required to run InstallAnywhere-based installers. Additionally, installers
require a minimum 640 X 480 screen resolution.
|
| b) The Updater installer can be invoked in "silent" mode on Windows, if you
have a machine that doesn't meet (a) above for the GUI install, or (b) you have
a need to apply the Updater to many machines via batch scripts, etc, etc.
Follow the instructions here for a "silent" install:
|
|
http://www.macromedia.com/support/coldfusion/releasenotes/mx/releasenotes_mx_updater03.html#silentinstall
|
|
| 2) CF not automatically starting reliably on Windows after system reboot:
|
| We had 3 engineers working this all day Friday, and we believe we have a
reproducible case, and have started debugging the process to see what's
happening.
|
| One of the things we're about to try is to simply switch Java VM's to see if
this is the result of a Java VM bug (we've had several in the
interacting-with-Windows-as-a-Service area before, so we're not ruling that out,
and it's a quick thing to try.  Recall that the CFMX Gold bits shipped out of
the box with the Sun 1.3.1_03 VM.  Trying the 1.3.1_08 VM, the 1.4.1_03 VM and
the 1.4.2 Beta VM will determine whether it's something that's fixed in the VM.
If anyone on this list is experiencing the issue, and wants to try these VM's
and report back, that would be a big help, and you can participate in helping to
move this issue forward.
|
| More to come, when we know more (likely Monday EOD sometime)...
|
| Thanks for your patience.
|
| Damon
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: cf studio users

[Doug White]

Very interested, please send

Thanks.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: cf studio users


| I got an interesting article in my email today written by Ben Forta called
"extending coldfusion studio" from ColdFusionProNews.
| If anyone is interested in it, let me know and I will forward it to you.
|
| :)
| dave
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: cf studio users

[Doug White]

http://www.coldfusionpronews.com/2003/0609.html

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- Original Message - 
From: "Thane Sherrington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: cf studio users


| At 03:39 PM 6/9/03 -0400, Dave Lyons wrote:
| >I got an interesting article in my email today written by Ben Forta called
| >"extending coldfusion studio" from ColdFusionProNews.
| >If anyone is interested in it, let me know and I will forward it to you.
|
| I'd like to read it.
|
| T
|
|
| Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer?  Move
| them to the Net!
| www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your
| favourites in one place and
| access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet.
|
| 
~|
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Re: Red Sky Beta 2

[Doug White]

There is noting wrong with complying with an NDA, however the beta of Red Sky,
is fully described not only publicly on the MM web site, but in public postings
on this list by MM employees.  That is more or less the 'official" description.
The NDA should restrict all but the MM insiders from publicly discussing the
innards of the project.  MM has not particularly made a secret of what it is
attempting to so with this maintenance release.  But, the NDA should restrict
all disclosures to MM insiders as they deem fit to release to the public.

On the Macromedia Web site, Red Sky is described as a maintenance release of
ColdFusionMX, and its install/updater packaging.  There are a number of items
that are being addressed also posted on the MM web site, as well as a rather
lengthy list of "wishes and wants" that may be addressed.

It is not described as a new product development or release, and all licensed
users will be upgraded at no cost when the beta becomes a release.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Che Vilnonis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:50 AM
Subject: RE: Red Sky Beta 2


| Is it against the NDA to tell me what Red Sky is???
| I've been away for a while...and I am clueless.
|
| ~CV
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 11:38 AM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: Re: Red Sky beta 2 released
|
|
| Well, we prefer that people respect their NDAs.
|
| mike chambers
|
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
| - Original Message -
| From: "Thane Sherrington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:15 AM
| Subject: RE: Red Sky beta 2 released
|
|
| > At 01:08 PM 06/10/03 +0100, Philip Arnold wrote:
| > > > For those beta testing Red Sky, MM have just released beta 2,
| > > > available at the usual place.
| > > >
| > > > Happy testing.
| > >
| > >The funny thing is that the people on the Beta test will be informed...
| > > >From official sources!
| > >
| > >If you're on the Beta, you signed the NDA... Try sticking to it
| >
| > I'm sure Macromedia cares if people outside an open beta find out if beta
| 2
| > is released.
| >
| > T
| >
| >
| > Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer?  Move
| > them to the Net!
| > www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your
| > favourites in one place and
| > access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet.
| >
| >
|
| 
~|
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Re: Red Sky beta 2 released

[Doug White]

Got mine a little while ago.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Christian Cantrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: Red Sky beta 2 released


| We haven't sent out responses to everyone yet, but you should hear
| something by tomorrow afternoon.
|
| Christian
|
| On Tuesday, June 10, 2003, at 12:13 PM, Bryan Stevenson wrote:
|
| > nopestill tappin my fingers on my desk waiting for some kind of
| > notification *sigh*
| >
| > Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
| > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
| > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
| > t. 250.920.8830
| > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| >
| > -
| > Macromedia Associate Partner
| > www.macromedia.com
| > -
| > Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group
| > Founder & Director
| > www.cfug-vancouverisland.com
| > - Original Message -
| > From: "David K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:59 AM
| > Subject: Re: Red Sky beta 2 released
| >
| >
| >> MM recently announced that they were opening up
| >> the RedSky beta program to new testers. I have
| >> applied but heard nothing. I'm assuming that this
| >> will be another case where MM will only contact
| >> successful applicants. Has anyone else here who
| >> applied for round 2 heard anything?
| >>
| >> --David K
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >> - Original Message -
| >> From: "Tilbrook, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| >> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| >> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 3:46 PM
| >> Subject: Red Sky beta 2 released
| >>
| >>
| >>> For those beta testing Red Sky, MM have just released beta 2,
| >>> available
| > at
| >>> the usual place.
| >>>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >
| 
~|
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Re: Update on the Installer "Freeze" & Failure to Auto-Start on W indows Issues...

[Doug White]

I too, am impressed very favorably with not only the follow-up, but the
reassurance that those of us that were experiencing problems and took quite a
bit of flack from other users of this list for complaining about it, were not
imagining the problems.

It is also very re-assuring that the identification and resolution has become a
priority of MM, and I am really going to enjoy becoming a member of the happy
campers again.

I now have a slick and solid running Win2003/CFMX server running and am in the
process of adding the free hosting of another user group, the first of which are
very interested in a CFMX web site.  I think it will be a showpiece when
uploaded and goes live within the next few days.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Kear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 9:54 PM
Subject: RE: Update on the Installer "Freeze" & Failure to Auto-Start on W
indows Issues...


| This is excellent follow-up.  I'm pleased they're working on it like
| terriers and aren't going to let it go till it's resolved.
|
| What Damon says would explain how come some people experience the problem
| and others don't, and also how come the problem went away when some people
| forced CFMX to load earlier in the boot-up cycle.
|
|
| Cheers,
| Michael Kear
| Windsor, NSW, Australia
| AFP Webworks.
|
|
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Damon Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Thursday, 12 June 2003 11:42 AM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: RE: Update on the Installer "Freeze" & Failure to Auto-Start on W
| indows Issues...
|
| One more update:
|
| We believe we at least somewhat understand the "CFMX doesn't startup on
| reboot" issue as recreated on the machines in house here.
|
| To summarize (and I'm sure I'm whitewashing some of this):
|
| 1) The CFMX App Server is an native Windows executable wrapper that is the
| main "ColdFusion MX Application Server" service.
| 2) It controls, starts, stops, and monitors the main "jrun.exe" executable
| that CFMX is runs on.
| 3) The wrapper executable has separate timeout values for both starting and
| stopping the main "jrun.exe" executable.  Both timeout values are currently
| hardwired to 20 seconds.
| 4) On machines with a lot going on during startup, or complex services
| dependencies, or slow machines, the "jrun.exe" executable can exceed the 20
| second timeout in successfully starting.  When this timeout is exceeded, the
| Service wrapper executable "gives up", returns a failure code and CFMX is
| not started.
| 5) If, when CFMX is told to shutdown (via the Services Control Panel, or via
| command, or when an Updater installer tells it to shutdown), the "jrun.exe"
| exceeds the Service wrapper's shutdown timeout (20 sec), the wrapper returns
| a failure code and gives up.
|
| When we extend the startup timeout of the Service wrapper executable (we
| give it some patience), "jrun.exe" and CFMX eventually startup fine, but it
| may take some extra time.  Same for shutdown in most cases.
|
| So...
|
| We're testing a fix to the wrapper that a) raises the default timeout for
| both operations, and making these values configurable via a setting
| (registry, XML file, whatever). It seems to work in all cases so far, and we
| hope to get it to Mike's hoster guy to try shortly (he may already have it
| now).
|
| Finally, as extra shutdown insurance, we may optionally allow the shutdown
| code of the Service wrapper to do a forced shutdown of the "jrun.exe" if the
| (now extended, configurable) timeout expires. As soon as we have a good
| hotfix, we'll try to make it generally available ASAP.
|
|
|
| Sorry about all this, and thanks for hanging with us...
|
| Damon
|
|
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Damon Cooper
| Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 7:16 AM
| To: 'CF-Talk '; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
| Subject: RE: Update on the Installer "Freeze" & Failure to Auto-Start on
| Windows Issues...
|
|
| Quick update:
|
| Switching JVM's didn't have any affect on our test machine exhibiting the
| problem. We do get "Error Number 2" errors in the System Event Log, however,
| which indicate "The system cannot find the file specified."  This could be
| due to the fact that a socket open failed (TCP sockets are OS "files") due
| to the OS network layer not being ready for us, or we were impatient with a
| short timeout, and may need to sleep & retry the open and/or use a longer
| timeout.
|
| We continue to actively work this today.  More to come...
|
|
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Damon Cooper
| Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 10:42 AM
| To: 'CF-Talk '
| Subject: Update on the Installer "Freeze" & Failure to Auto-Start on Windows
| Iss

Re: OT~ but a good laugh:)

[Doug White]

And you can turn off FrontPage extensions too!

2003 has a neat expiration code, and a even cooler "can be opened only by"  and
"cannot save locally" features too!

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- Original Message - 
From: "Howie Hamlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: OT~ but a good laugh:)


| Actually, Frontpage is one of the better code generators.  Have you ever
looked at Golive code?  Argh...
|
| - Original Message - 
| From: "Dave Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 4:39 PM
| Subject: OT~ but a good laugh:)
|
|
| > Microsoft announce FrontPage 2003 "We've really focused on generating
| >
| > clean, industry-standard HTML code." they claim.
| >
| >
| >
| >
| 
~|
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Re: OT - List query - temporarily suspend emails sent

[Doug White]

unsubscribe

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- Original Message - 
From: "David Collie (itndac)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 8:32 AM
Subject: OT - List query - temporarily suspend emails sent


| Allright,
|
| Luckily Im off on holiday this afternoon for two weeks and I don't even
| want to be looking at a computer!!!
|
| Is there any way I can stop the list sending me messages without
| deleting my account (ie a blank email address or something)?
|
| Had a root about but don't see any options for it.
|
| Cheers,
|
| DC
|
| 
~|
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Re: DBAs/SQL Server experts?

[Doug White]

There is no need for login info in the Application.cfm, as ColdFusion handles
that just fine.

I would think all one needs is the name of the datasource, and possibly the type
"ODBC"


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- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:30 AM
Subject: RE: DBAs/SQL Server experts?


| Check your application.cfm. Do you have all the right log in info for
| SQL?
|
| Dan Phillips
| www.CFXHosting.com
| 1-866-239-4678
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Dina Hess [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 11:23 AM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: DBAs/SQL Server experts?
|
|
| Hi all,
|
| If a datasource verifies OK in CF Admin on a shared host, what would
| cause the connection to fail?
|
| I detached a SQL Server database and FTP'd a copy to the host (couldn't
| get DTS to work...but that's another problem). He created an ODBC system
| data source on his Windows box then set up the data source in CF Admin.
| The data source verifies fine on his system, but my application, which
| references the same data source in CFQUERY, is not getting a connection.
|
| I'd been using MSDE and Query Analyzer so I could practice running
| queries against SQL Server data sources, but I'm completely new to the
| full blown SQL Server Enterprise Manager. I've probably done something
| brainless. But I don't know what it could be. :/
|
| Any ideas?
|
| ~Dina
|
|
|
|
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: RED SKY BETA

[Doug White]

Not only announced it, but the project manager has been posting constant updates
on this list, and I would imagine it is not a violation of the NDA to discuss
his updates.  I for one, hopefully am now part of the solution and not part of
the problem, either perceived or real.

Most Beta projects are conducted very secretly and little info is released
publicly until the product is released.  But in the Case of Red Sky, MM is
demonstrating their commitment to address all the problems that have been
discussed on here, no matter how off-the-wall they seemed at the time, as the
feature requests that have been submitted, as well as other places.  Based on
the posts and updates I have seen on this list, MM is doing a terrific job in
fixing CFMX and its installer packaging.  Based on my own participation in the
beta project, I will honor the NDA and just comment that I am really excited and
positive about it.

There have been posts complaining about MM's communications (or lack of) and it
is evident that this has changed radically for the better.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Wayne Lehman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:42 AM
Subject: RE: RED SKY BETA


| Lighten up, it's Friday.
|
| Peter I apologize for all the anal jealous bastards (no one in
| particular) on this list, cuz MM announced the beta _publicly_ June 2.
|
| Adam Wayne Lehman
| Web Systems Developer
| Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
| Distance Education Division
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Haggerty, Mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 11:22 AM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: RE: RED SKY BETA
|
| It's MM's decision to release info about the beta, not the testers.
|
| M
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Adam Wayne Lehman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 8:44 AM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: RE: RED SKY BETA
|
|
| Maybe some owe Peter an apology. It wasn't more than 4 days ago he got
| flamed for merely mentioning 'Red Sky Beta'.
|
| Adam Wayne Lehman
| Web Systems Developer
| Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
| Distance Education Division
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Damon Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 7:52 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: RED SKY BETA
|
| We need your help to really put the CF "RED SKY" release through its
| paces
| and make this the best ColdFusion Server product ever released.
|
| If you think you might be able to help us out, you're invited complete
| the
| simple Beta program application:
|
| http://www.macromedia.com/go/cfmmxbeta
|
| The CF "RED SKY" preview presentation contains the only details that can
| be
| talked about publicly, but it's located here:
|
| http://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/presentation/redsky/
|
| We've poured poured our heart & soul into RED SKY, and we want it to be
| "The
| ONE" you use and depend on, to do-what-you-do.
|
| See you in the Beta Forums!
|
| Damon Cooper
| Dir of Engineering, ColdFusion Server
| Macromedia
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
|
|
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: DBAs/SQL Server experts?

[Doug White]

Hi Dina
What I did just now was to detach and then re-attach your database on the
server.  Your comment that it is working is really a relief, and will allow me
to return to work on the Red Sky server.

I am still trying to resolve a jdbc issue on there as well.

[ If I live long enough, perhaps I will become a guru ] 

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- Original Message - 
From: "Dina Hess" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: DBAs/SQL Server experts?


| To everyone who responded, thank you so much for your support during this
| Friday 13th headache. For some reason, it's now working (??), so I guess my
| shared host found the solution.
|
| To anyone who may be interested, my website is now up and running at
| http://www.dinahess.com. All of the "Best of Talk" summaries are available
| there and will be kept current if I can get a working DTS connection to my
| shared host's server. There are also a few tips...and a SQL tutorial.
|
| You guys are the best! Thank you for your help...again. :)
|
| ~Dina
|
|
|
| 
~|
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Re: OT~ but a good laugh:)

[Doug White]

and of course delete all those vti_bin folders  LOL

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- Original Message - 
From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: OT~ but a good laugh:)


| On Thursday, Jun 12, 2003, at 17:26 US/Pacific, Rafael Alan Bleiweiss
| wrote:
| > hahaha  I've been dealing with clients who like FrontPage since the
| > Spring
| > of 96!  Visualize converting fifty uniquely "coded" FrontPage web pages
| > into "reasonably usable" HTML pages, by hand, line by line for the
| > first
| > half dozen til you can catalogue all the common "extra" code, then
| > globally
| > stripping those out, then finally going back and looking line by line
| > for
| > all the anomalies.
|
| Dreamweaver has commands to clean up HTML which would probably have
| saved you a lot of work. It even has a specific command to clean up
| Word-generated HTML :)
|
| Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
|
| "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
| -- Margaret Atwood
|
| 
~|
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Re: Web based Project Management

[Doug White]

CF on Linux using MYSQL

http://www.bsa-troop401.net/


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- Original Message - 
From: "Tony Schreiber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: Web based Project Management


| That looks awesome. Anyone have luck using Oracle or MySQL rather than
| PostGres?
|
| > http://gforge.org
| >
| > ---
| > Josh Trefethen
| > Expert hosting
| > http://exciteworks.com
| >
| >
| >
| > -Original Message-
| > From: Kazmierczak, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 7:11 AM
| > To: CF-Talk
| > Subject: OT: Web based Project Management
| >
| > I am looking for a web based project management software package that
| > isn't
| > overly complex.  Free is good, but I am open to suggestions, and no MS
| > Project.
| >
| >
| >
| > Any help is appreciated.
| >
| >
| >
| > ---
| > Kevin Kazmierczak, CCNA
| >
| > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer
| > Alfred University
| > Alumni Hall
| > 607-871-2334
| > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| 
~|
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Re: What database to use???

[Doug White]

There was a recent thread where different folks were talking about their
favorite database to use when building web applications, and I have put together
an extensive feature comparison between the various flavors available, that goes
quite a bit beyond the sales hype.  Some of you just might be surprised.

You can view the feature and performance comparisons at the following link:

http://www.clickdoug.com/compare/FeatureComparisons.htm


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Re: What database to use???

[Doug White]

Speed and comprehensiveness  finished ahead of good design, I am afraid :-(

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- Original Message - 
From: "S.Isaac Dealey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: What database to use???


| Thanks a lot Doug, this is a really great resource...
|
| The only comment I have is that it's tough to follow the headers with so many
items in a given group -- you might add one in every 10 lines or so. In an Excel
sheet I'd lock the headers at the top and only scroll the remaining rows,
although I realize a lot of Mac / *nix users may not have ready access to
software that displays these files gracefully.
|
| > There was a recent thread where different folks were
| > talking about their
| > favorite database to use when building web applications,
| > and I have put together
| > an extensive feature comparison between the various
| > flavors available, that goes
| > quite a bit beyond the sales hype.  Some of you just might
| > be surprised.
|
| > You can view the feature and performance comparisons at
| > the following link:
|
| > http://www.clickdoug.com/compare/FeatureComparisons.htm
|
|
| > ==
| > Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway!
| > For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com
| > ISP rated: http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772
| > ==
| > If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't
| > done!
|
| > ~~
| > ~~~|
| > Archives:
| > http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4
| > Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.
| > cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=4
| > FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq
|
| > Get the mailserver that powers this list at
| > http://www.coolfusion.com
|
| > Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/uns
| > ubscribe.cfm?user=633.558.4
|
|
|
|
| s. isaac dealey972-490-6624
|
| new epoch  http://www.turnkey.to
|
| lead architect, tapestry cms   http://products.turnkey.to
|
| tapestry api is opensource http://www.turnkey.to/tapi
|
| certified advanced coldfusion 5 developer
| http://www.macromedia.com/v1/handlers/index.cfm?ID=21816
|
|
| 
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Re: CF Compatability

[Doug White]

| 
| Give us documented features and explicit behaviour on a stable product,
| that's what CF people want.
| 


That is exactly what they are doing!   

Doug
~|
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Re: What database to use???

[Doug White]

Please detail the inaccuracies.   The Crashme authors want to know.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Dana Tierney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: What database to use???


| On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 16:11:35 +0200, Jochem van Dieten
| <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|
| > Dana Tierney wrote:
| >
| >> I am going by Doug's resource, that is what it says about the MS abd IBM
| >> products. And that would be something I would have to account for, ya,
| >> utterly illiterate clients.
| >
| > Unfortunately, Doug's resource seems to have been made using the crash-me
| > utility, which is far from complete and in some cases inaccurate.
| >
| > Jochem
| >
| >
| >
| 
~|
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Re: ColdFusion 5 Trial

[Doug White]

I really hate to see this discussion degenerate into a "Religious War"

Actually, each product has its place in the grand scheme of things.

We must recognize that not all web applications are on a grand scale, nor are
they all top end. Most don't even need to be.

Some folks and organizations of necessity, must start on a small scale, and
feature limited software has a place here, just as CF Express had years back.
As the site owner grows, so does his/her/their needs and the migration to a more
feature rich server product is a cost effective path, especially when the
developer does not have to learn a new technology, or at least does not have to
reinvent the wheel to take advantage of all the rich features they will be
using.

First things first, and that is what MM is doing with Red Sky, and that is
improving their product so as to require less technical expertise on the part of
server admins to install and use their product and to improve its stability on a
wide variety of platforms.

The New Atlanta product, while not a CF clone, already does this, with some
differences.

It has already been mentioned that the majority of CFML users are still on the
CF 4.5 (and I know of some still powering web sites with CF version 1.0) arena -
they will be checking out the cost effectiveness, of not only newer hardware,
but the installation, migration costs, stability issues and feature set of the
technology they migrate to.  In either case, the newer product must be
compelling in not only its technology advance, feature set, but simplicity to
use.

Any major IT department would not consider moving to the J2EE platforms unless
there is a compelling reason to do so.  The decision makers must consider what
they will get for their buck.  The smaller enterprise must consider this twice,
so to speak.

Not every one is an IBM, or an Amazon.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: ColdFusion 5 Trial


| On Saturday, Jun 14, 2003, at 08:09 US/Pacific, Charlie Arehart wrote:
| > Right, BlueDragon currently lacks support for Verity, Crystal Reports,
| > CFASSOCIATE, CFAUTHENTICATE, CFIMPERSONATE, CFAPPLET, and CFGRID tags.
| > If
| > you need those, BD is not currently a solution for you.
|
| There's also quite a few attributes on other tags that are not
| supported - see the compatibility guide on New Atlanta's website. Also
| note that there are several features not available in the free server
| edition that are only available in the JX edition (some features) or
| the full J2EE edition.
|
| For example, the free edition does not support: cfexecute, cfgraph,
| cfschedule, cfservlet, cfservletparam or cfwddx and none of the
| editions support cfobject type="COM". See:
|
| http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/product_info/
| cfml_tag_support.cfm
|
| There's a myriad incompatibilities that may or may not be important to
| developers including:
| - cfapplication always requires name=
| - cfquery does not auto-escape single quotes
|(I suspect a lot of CF5 code relies on this)
| - cfregistry does not actually access the Windows registry
| - cookies cannot be created by cfset - you must use cfcookie
|
| Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
|
| "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
| -- Margaret Atwood
|
| 
~|
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Re: Installing MX for JRun with no context root

[Doug White]

The is the repeated argument on the installations.  Why must anyone drill down
to anywhere?  Why cannot the install package provide the options and then do the
job?

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- Original Message - 
From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: Installing MX for JRun with no context root


| If you follow the default install for CFMX for J2EE on JRun (WAR
| install, manually expand WAR - per the "Phase 2" / Updater 3
| installation notes), then go into the JMC (JRun Management Console) and
| drill down into the Macromedia ColdFusion Application and change the
| Context Root to / that way. JRun will then redeploy CFMX.
|
| On Friday, Jun 13, 2003, at 13:08 US/Pacific, Dave Carabetta wrote:
|
| > I have installed CFMX for J2EE for JRun many times using "cfusion" as
| > my
| > context root. However, now I need to do some installations with no
| > context
| > root ("/") and I can't get MX to successfully start up for the life of
| > me.
| >
| > I have successfully run the installer using the EAR option, and
| > exploded the
| > EAR to view the application.xml file to confirm that the context-root
| > node
| > said "/". I then went and deleted the default-ear directory from under
| > my
| > server instance to eliminate the potential context root clash betwen
| > the
| > default application and CFMX. This leaves only the SERVER-INF
| > directory. I
| > then copy the cfusion.war file into my server root directory (i.e.,
| > /opt/jrun4/servers/mysite) and explode the archive. That process seems
| > to go
| > without a problem (although I have a stange feeling that might be
| > where my
| > problem is). I also see that I don't need to explode the rds.war file
| > because I'm not using a context root.
| >
| > I then follow the Updater 3 Release Notes to get MX in synch with JRun
| > and
| > then try and start the server. But I constantly get the following
| > startup
| > errors:
| >
| > 06/13 16:01:26 info JRun Naming Service listening on *:2911
| > 06/13 16:01:27 info No JDBC data sources have been configured for this
| > server (see jrun-resources.xml)
| > 06/13 16:01:27 info JRun Web Server listening on *:8500
| > 06/13 16:01:27 warning Deployer Service failed to deploy
| > file:/opt/jrun4/servers/mysite/META-INF/
| > * Unrecognized deployment:
| > file:/opt/jrun4/servers/reisse/META-INF/
| > 06/13 16:01:27 warning Deployer Service failed to deploy
| > file:/opt/jrun4/servers/mysite/WEB-INF/
| > * Unrecognized deployment:
| > file:/opt/jrun4/servers/reisse/WEB-INF/
| > 06/13 16:01:27 warning Deployer Service failed to deploy
| > file:/opt/jrun4/servers/mysite/CFIDE/
| > * Unrecognized deployment:
| > file:/opt/jrun4/servers/reisse/CFIDE/
| > 06/13 16:01:27 info Deploying enterprise application "JRun 4.0
| > Internal J2EE
| > Components" from: file:/opt/jrun4/lib/jrun-comp.ear
| > 06/13 16:01:27 info Deploying EJB "JRunSQLInvoker" from:
| > file:/opt/jrun4/lib/jrun-comp.ear
| > 06/13 16:01:28 info Deploying enterprise application "Flash Remoting
| > EAR"
| > from: file:/opt/jrun4/lib/flashgateway.ear
| > 06/13 16:01:28 info Deploying web application "Flash Remoting" from:
| > file:/opt/jrun4/lib/flashgateway.ear
| > 06/13 16:01:28 user JSPServlet: init
| > 06/13 16:01:28 user FlashGatewayServlet: init
| > Server mysite ready (startup time: 6 seconds)
| >
| > What am I missing? Does anybody have a good instruction set to get MX
| > (preferably on JRun) running with no context root? As I said, I've
| > successfully installed using "cfusion" as a context root dozens of
| > times,
| > but "/" is stumping me.
| >
| > As a test, I created a sub-directory called cfusion and exploded the
| > archive
| > there and everything worked fine. But the whole point is to not have
| > to type
| > /cfusion in my URLs.
| >
| > Thanks in advance,
| > Dave.
|
| 
~|
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Re: Installing MX for JRun with no context root

[Doug White]

In my opinion, there should be no middle ground for installer packaging.   I
think that statement is merely a cop-out.  I do not agree that people "do not
want" a comprehensive installer package.

I am a firm believer that the installer package should address every
configuration that the software author claims to support in their sales
documentation.   Anything less, and I believe you are short-changing the
purchaser, as well as risking loss of sales of the product, due to complexity of
the install and configuration process.  This issue is major enough in scope,
that I am also of the opinion that it is a  reason so many enterprises have
decided to delay or just not upgrade.  Hello? MM, are you listening?

It makes no difference to me if there are fifty people installing the software
in one pass, and one or two (I suspect it is much higher) have broken
installations due to omissions in the installer scripting and/or the
documentation.  You guys can BLOG all you want, but until a solution is reached,
you are still delivering a crippled software package, and that no doubt is
affecting sales, or lack of sales.

Secondly, if any of the components require configuration, then that should
either be addressed as options in the original installer package, or at least in
the CF Administrator applet.I actually consider it a dumb design scenario to
have multiple configuration applets, all of which must be hacked, tweaked, or
whatever you call it before getting down to work with the product.  I don't
think you need to address EVERY configuration scenario, but you MUST address all
of the ones your own sales hype claims to support.  Period, end of story.

Perhaps someone needs to recognize that the installer package is the first
"face" that you present to your customer.  There should be a gigantic effort to
make sure this is a pleasant experience, not just some of the time, but ALL of
the time.  The best engineered software in the world is doomed to failure if it
will not smoothly install and configure in a simple and efficient manner.
Someone should realize that in a production environment, developer types are not
the ones doing the installation and configuration of server products.  In many
shops, the developers do not even have the access permissions or are many miles
away from the scene.

What good is it to concentrate all engineering resources to the core product if
the customer cannot successfully install it and as a result refuses or delays
buying it?

I too, am participating in the Red Sky project, and that is where I got the
impression that MM was addressing some of the installer issues.  I have made a
lot of input, but must await disclosure by the MM folks before I can discuss
them in depth.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Installing MX for JRun with no context root


| On Saturday, Jun 14, 2003, at 19:24 US/Pacific, Doug White wrote:
| > The is the repeated argument on the installations.  Why must anyone
| > drill down
| > to anywhere?  Why cannot the install package provide the options and
| > then do the
| > job?
|
| Each J2EE app server provides a different way to manage the
| applications it runs and JRun itself has an extremely good
| administrative UI. If the install package had to allow users to
| customize all of these myriad options it would (a) have to be a much
| more complicated installer (which people don't want) and (b) it would
| require a different installer for each app server (which might divert
| resources away from other, more important core features, as well as
| making it impossible to offer a pure Java version that installs on any
| J2EE server).
|
| The installer takes a middle course, providing many of the basic
| install options that most people need but leaving the more esoteric
| options to the individual. I've installed CFMX Server and J2EE edition
| on three different platforms (Mac, Solaris, Windows) in a variety of
| configurations and there are only a few 'tweaks' that I've needed to
| perform via the underlying J2EE application server - with the exception
| of the very specific shared document root setup used on a couple of our
| servers (documented on my blog - I was the first person to attempt to
| install it that way and the product team worked closely with me to make
| it work - and most of those contortions are no longer relevant since
| CFMX Updater 3 makes it easy to share a document root... I'll update
| the blog entry at some point!).
|
| Sea

Re: CF Compatibility

[Doug White]

Finally, a web site up and running on CFMX/
Windows2003 Enterprise.
I am using the IP as the link as the DNS is still updating.

http://66.139.91.36/brcfug/

Host is in Texas,  group is in Sao Paulo Brazil!

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- Original Message - 
From: "Damon Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 11:37 AM
Subject: CF Compatibility


| My compatibility concerns could be interpreted as bias, but we do possess a
signficiant arsenal of quality assurance test suites here that we've made a
massive investment in over the years, and I know how important small
incompatabilities can be to customers.
|
| There's a lot that goes into being ColdFusion/CFML "compatible", and without
putting that in that effort, and I think using the phrases "compatible" or
"signficantly compatible" can be very misleading for customers who trust these
statements.
|

~|
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Re: CF Compatability

[Doug White]

Among others, Introducing the technology to new implementers,  provide a pathway
for a start up to build experience and follow an upgrade path that will be
profitable.

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- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:41 PM
Subject: CF Compatability


| What's the incentive to give away CF, the test suites or the language to New
Atalnta and others?
|
| 
~|
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Re: Installing MX for JRun with no context root

[Doug White]

I can appreciate those that have experienced many "trouble free" installs.  I
have no quarrel with those that are interested in only installing the server
product  on a single-homed box.  Those installs appear to be what the current
installer is designed for.

But.  What to we do to install the product on a multi-homed server? (being
addressed successfully in Red Sky)
What do we do to install the product anywhere but the web root, which requires
that the default web site be always running?   This exposes the server to the
constant spew of unsolicited probes and attacks.
How do you install the product where it can only be addressed by the http
headers and not by the IP number?
How do we install it so that the CF Administrator applet can be opened in a web
site that is not tied to 127.0.0.1 or localhost?  Most administrators of
multi-homed servers, prefer to keep the default web site turned off for security
purposes.   I assure you this is not an issue local only to me and my set-up.

On the other hand, I do finally have a web site up and running successfully, set
up in a secure manner, on a CFMX/Win2003 box, and am preparing to add others
very soon.

The issue is not that it can't be done, the issue is doing it fast, efficient,
secure, and with a minimum of "after-installation" hacks, tweaks, and editing
config files to get the job done.  Hey, this is a great product, with many
innovations.  Lets just make it install and set up in one pass, applicable to
every configuration the product supports, in one pass, each time and every time.

Provide solutions to these and I will gladly put my money where my keyboard is.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Sean A Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: Installing MX for JRun with no context root


| Doug,
|
| You had a bad experience with CFMX on Windows. I had, mostly, great
| experiences on Windows, Solaris and Mac OS X - with probably the best
| part of a hundred installs. I'm sorry that our experiences differ. That
| said, calling it "crippled" and "dumb" and saying "all of [the
| configuration applets] must be hacked" is neither constructive nor
| accurate. And what's a 'configuration applet' anyway?
|
| As for the installer being the first "face" - that's why so much effort
| in Red Sky has been focused on the installer, even tho' the vast
| majority of CFMX users have successful installs today. Macromedia does
| indeed listen and has recognized that some users have problems and some
| installation scenarios are not as slick as they could be. Hence Red Sky.
|
| Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
|
| "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
| -- Margaret Atwood
|
| On Sunday, Jun 15, 2003, at 04:12 US/Pacific, Doug White wrote:
|
| > In my opinion, there should be no middle ground for installer
| > packaging.   I
| > think that statement is merely a cop-out.  I do not agree that people
| > "do not
| > want" a comprehensive installer package.
| >
| > I am a firm believer that the installer package should address every
| > configuration that the software author claims to support in their sales
| > documentation.   Anything less, and I believe you are short-changing
| > the
| > purchaser, as well as risking loss of sales of the product, due to
| > complexity of
| > the install and configuration process.  This issue is major enough in
| > scope,
| > that I am also of the opinion that it is a  reason so many enterprises
| > have
| > decided to delay or just not upgrade.  Hello? MM, are you listening?
| >
| > It makes no difference to me if there are fifty people installing the
| > software
| > in one pass, and one or two (I suspect it is much higher) have broken
| > installations due to omissions in the installer scripting and/or the
| > documentation.  You guys can BLOG all you want, but until a solution
| > is reached,
| > you are still delivering a crippled software package, and that no
| > doubt is
| > affecting sales, or lack of sales.
| >
| > Secondly, if any of the components require configuration, then that
| > should
| > either be addressed as options in the original installer package, or
| > at least in
| > the CF Administrator applet.I actually consider it a dumb design
| > scenario to
| > have multiple configuration applets, all of which must be hacked,
| > tweaked, or
| > whatever y

Re: CF Compatability

[Doug White]

Of course not - I was referring to products such as ColdFusion Express  Not the
full product line.  Geez!

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- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 2:37 PM
Subject: RE: CF Compatability


| By "new implementers" do you mean someone who would be competing against MM
| for server sales?
|
| Ken
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Doug White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 3:23 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: Re: CF Compatability
|
|
| Among others, Introducing the technology to new implementers,  provide a
| pathway
| for a start up to build experience and follow an upgrade path that will be
| profitable.
|
| ==
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| For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com
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|
| - Original Message -
| From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:41 PM
| Subject: CF Compatability
|
|
| | What's the incentive to give away CF, the test suites or the language to
| New
| Atalnta and others?
| |
| |
|
| 
~|
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Re: CF Compatability

[Doug White]

perhaps a better choice of words should have been "customers"

Trial versions and free limited versions have been a part of the software
business all along, right?

This is how you introduce your product, especially if it introduces new
technology to a market that has not used it before.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 2:37 PM
Subject: RE: CF Compatability


| By "new implementers" do you mean someone who would be competing against MM
| for server sales?
|
| Ken
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Doug White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 3:23 PM
| To: CF-Talk
| Subject: Re: CF Compatability
|
|
| Among others, Introducing the technology to new implementers,  provide a
| pathway
| for a start up to build experience and follow an upgrade path that will be
| profitable.
|
| ==
| Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway!
| For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com
| ISP rated: http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772
| ==
| If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done!
|
| - Original Message -
| From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:41 PM
| Subject: CF Compatability
|
|
| | What's the incentive to give away CF, the test suites or the language to
| New
| Atalnta and others?
| |
| |
|
| 
~|
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Re: CF Compatability

[Doug White]

Read the whole thread, and you will have your answer.

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- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Kief" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 5:37 PM
Subject: RE: CF Compatability


| And there is a FREE trial download of CFMX...what's your point?
|
| chris
|
|
|
| >-Original Message-
| >From: Doug White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| >Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 3:27 PM
| >To: CF-Talk
| >Subject: Re: CF Compatability
| >
| >perhaps a better choice of words should have been "customers"
| >
| >Trial versions and free limited versions have been a part of the software
| >business all along, right?
| >
| >This is how you introduce your product, especially if it introduces new
| >technology to a market that has not used it before.
| >
| >==
| >Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway!
| >For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com
| >ISP rated: http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772
| >==
| >If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done!
| >
| >- Original Message -
| >From: "Ken Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| >To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| >Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 2:37 PM
| >Subject: RE: CF Compatability
| >
| >
| >| By "new implementers" do you mean someone who would be competing against
| >MM
| >| for server sales?
| >|
| >| Ken
| >|
| >|
| >| -Original Message-
| >| From: Doug White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| >| Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 3:23 PM
| >| To: CF-Talk
| >| Subject: Re: CF Compatability
| >|
| >|
| >| Among others, Introducing the technology to new implementers,  provide a
| >| pathway
| >| for a start up to build experience and follow an upgrade path that will
| >be
| >| profitable.
| >|
| >| ==
| >| Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway!
| >| For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com
| >| ISP rated: http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772
| >| ==
| >| If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done!
| >|
| >| - Original Message -
| >| From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| >| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| >| Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:41 PM
| >| Subject: CF Compatability
| >|
| >|
| >| | What's the incentive to give away CF, the test suites or the language
| >to
| >| New
| >| Atalnta and others?
| >| |
| >| |
| >|
| >|
| >
| 
~|
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Re: Installing MX for JRun with no context root

[Doug White]

|
| Well, I use Apache and handle everything through that.

We are talking about Windows installations here, not apache.  I have not had an
instll problem with Apache, either on a single or multi-homed
 server.

| I don't understand you - the default install lets you access CF Admin
| from any machine. You can always run the JRun web server for CF Admin
| and use Apache (or, presumably, IIS) to handle non-CF Admin traffic
| through the connectors. We have it set up so the JRun web server is not
| accessible outside the network (in fact, not outside the network layer
| on which the app servers run).

When using IIS, if one turns off the default web site, CF Administrator will
return a "404 not found" error.
This is because it installs in the wwwroot directory on a standard install.
Again, I am talking a Windows/IIS machine.  If you are not familiar with IIS,
the server admin has the option of stopping, starting, and/or disabling any of
the web sites so configured without affecting the others.
For servers exposed to the intenet, they are under constant assault from all
over the planet by scanners, trojans, virus infected machines, and intentional
attempts at cracking.   The majority of these use the IP number which takes them
to the default web site.  If a server administrator is able to disable the
default web site, it adds an extra layer of defense against these types of
probes.
My own network is very small and should be considered insignificant in the grand
scheme of the internet, however it is common to log 25000+ attempts to hack the
server on a given day.  Any server operator who chooses to ignore this is either
incompetent or is being careless, and is openly inviting compromise.

|
| Glad to hear that! I know you've had a rough time with installs so far
| so I'm pleased that it hasn't put you off.

 I credit the work with Red Sky for that success.
 Check http://66.139.91.36/brcfug/
|
| Even with the original CFMX Server product, I could do about eight
| uninstall / install cycles a day (and often did while I was working
| with pre-release builds). Of course, those were 'standard' installs.
| Considering how many variables there are in a full secure production
| setup, how quick do you need it to be? (That's a serious question)
|
| Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
|

It seems we are talking apples and oranges here.   I have never complained about
the installs on Apache, or with default installs.  I have never mentioned
problems installing on the MAC platform, because I do not use it.
I have not reported problems installing developer copies on a developer machine.

If you install Windows Adv Server from the original setup disks, the installer
will prompt you for your configuration and will even give you the option of
re-formatting the hard drive if you want.  Once you select the options you wish,
the installer completes the install in a single pass.   All that remains to be
done after that, is to apply whatever updates and patches that have been
released since the disk manufacture.  If you install Norton Anti-virus, the
installer asks a few questions, and does all the install and configuration in
one pass.  All that remains is to update the virus definitions after the
install.This is what I mean by fast and efficient.  When installing Windows
203 Advanced server from the distribution CDROM, you are again presented with
options from which to select and perform your required configuration.  Once
those chores are completed, then the installer completes the task in a single
pass.  After installation tasks such as configuring web sites, setting up
security policies, and configuring the firewall are done with other included
applets.  Never, is there a requirement to open configuration files and modify
path information, nor is there a requirement to edit the registry.  When
installing CFMX on a multi-homed Windows server, this is just not the case,  And
this is what I mean by a broken installer package.   Until Red Sky reaches RC,
CFMX IS a great application packaged in a broken installer.  I stand by this
description.

For any software company, and especially one the size of Macromedia, delivering
install packages that will not do what you claim they will do, on whatever
platform you advertise them to support is frankly inexcusable.

Doug

~|
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Re: CFMX installer (was: Installing MX for JRun with no context r oot & other threads)

[Doug White]

| > In my opinion, there should be no middle ground for installer
| > packaging. I think that statement is merely a cop-out. I do
| > not agree that people "do not want" a comprehensive installer
| > package.

If the software company claims to support the platform, then the installer
should be configured for it.
no compromise here.

|
| While I agree with you that there are plenty of areas where the installer
| could be obviously improved - the cacheRealPath item being a good example -
| I don't think it's possible for the installer to support every possible way
| that the product can be configured.


If this is the case, then the options should be included in the CF Administrator
to do the specifics.  not by hacking the registry or direct edits of
configuraton files.


|
| With the exception of the cacheRealPath issue, these issues, while they may
| be common to everyone installing CF and aren't local to you, don't have
| anything at all to do with CFMX, but rather have to do with web server
| configuration. No matter how well Macromedia makes the installer, they will
| not be able to do away with the requirement that the person installing the
| product have an adequate level of knowledge about web server configuration.

Most servers admins are MSCE types, not CFMX types.

|
| This is something I run into quite a bit, actually. A lot of our customers
| use IIS, but few take the time to learn the bare minimum about configuring
| it properly until we find out about it. With Windows 2000, certainly, the
| default IIS configuration leaves a lot to be desired. Even with Windows
| Server 2003, there's quite a bit about the default OS and web server
| configuration that should be changed before deployment.

Unfortunately most of these admis have the ear of top management, a higher level
thn the lowly developer who had hyped the purchase of the software.

|
| As servers become more complex, and do more things, I believe it's wishful
| thinking to expect the installer to cover all options. At some point, the
| expertise of a server administrator will be required. That's why we have
| server administrators.
|
| And if you think the CFMX install is bad, try installing ANY content
| management system - you're likely to have fits!

No argument there.

|
| Keeping in mind the amount of QA time that would probably be necessary to
| cover every possible configuration option, you might not be able to afford
| it. There's no such thing as a free lunch.


I don't think anyojne is looking for a free lunch.  What is being asked is a
configuraton that is advertised be covered.   Any others can be referred to as
"non-standard" and covered elsewhere is either release notes, or documentation.

But, perhaps you are preaching to the choir.  I love the platform, and hype it
when I can.  My job will be easier when these issues are addressed.

My posts on this list are not to denigrate the product, but to assist in
improving it, thus making it, if possible a no-brainer to deploy.   The benefits
will be increased sales and more rapid migration,  That is a good thing.|

~|
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Re: Installing MX for JRun with no context root

[Doug White]

I only use Apache on Linux - no problems there

I use IIS on Windows

I have been unsuccessful in configuring the connectors to a specific site for CF
administrator functions, and yet have CF available to the other sites for
"normal" operations.

==
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- Original Message - 
From: "Calvin Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: Installing MX for JRun with no context root


| Apache installs very nicely on windows.
|
| But that aside, you can certainly do a standalone install, run the
| connectors and use IIS, and still not have the default IIS running.
|
|
| - Original Message - 
| From: "Doug White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 8:20 PM
| Subject: Re: Installing MX for JRun with no context root
|
|
| > |
| > | Well, I use Apache and handle everything through that.
| >
| > We are talking about Windows installations here, not apache.  I have not
| had an
| > instll problem with Apache, either on a single or multi-homed
| >  server.
| >
| > | I don't understand you - the default install lets you access CF Admin
| > | from any machine. You can always run the JRun web server for CF Admin
| > | and use Apache (or, presumably, IIS) to handle non-CF Admin traffic
| > | through the connectors. We have it set up so the JRun web server is not
| > | accessible outside the network (in fact, not outside the network layer
| > | on which the app servers run).
| >
| > When using IIS, if one turns off the default web site, CF Administrator
| will
| > return a "404 not found" error.
| > This is because it installs in the wwwroot directory on a standard
| install.
| > Again, I am talking a Windows/IIS machine.  If you are not familiar with
| IIS,
| > the server admin has the option of stopping, starting, and/or disabling
| any of
| > the web sites so configured without affecting the others.
| > For servers exposed to the intenet, they are under constant assault from
| all
| > over the planet by scanners, trojans, virus infected machines, and
| intentional
| > attempts at cracking.   The majority of these use the IP number which
| takes them
| > to the default web site.  If a server administrator is able to disable the
| > default web site, it adds an extra layer of defense against these types of
| > probes.
| > My own network is very small and should be considered insignificant in the
| grand
| > scheme of the internet, however it is common to log 25000+ attempts to
| hack the
| > server on a given day.  Any server operator who chooses to ignore this is
| either
| > incompetent or is being careless, and is openly inviting compromise.
| >
| > |
| > | Glad to hear that! I know you've had a rough time with installs so far
| > | so I'm pleased that it hasn't put you off.
| >
| >  I credit the work with Red Sky for that success.
| >  Check http://66.139.91.36/brcfug/
| > |
| > | Even with the original CFMX Server product, I could do about eight
| > | uninstall / install cycles a day (and often did while I was working
| > | with pre-release builds). Of course, those were 'standard' installs.
| > | Considering how many variables there are in a full secure production
| > | setup, how quick do you need it to be? (That's a serious question)
| > |
| > | Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
| > |
| >
| > It seems we are talking apples and oranges here.   I have never complained
| about
| > the installs on Apache, or with default installs.  I have never mentioned
| > problems installing on the MAC platform, because I do not use it.
| > I have not reported problems installing developer copies on a developer
| machine.
| >
| > If you install Windows Adv Server from the original setup disks, the
| installer
| > will prompt you for your configuration and will even give you the option
| of
| > re-formatting the hard drive if you want.  Once you select the options you
| wish,
| > the installer completes the install in a single pass.   All that remains
| to be
| > done after that, is to apply whatever updates and patches that have been
| > released since the disk manufacture.  If you install Norton Anti-virus,
| the
| > installer asks a few questions, and does all the install and configuration
| in
| > one pass.  All that remains is to update the virus definitions after the
| > install.This is wha

Re: CFMX installer (was: Installing MX for JRun with no context r oot & other threads)

[Doug White]

| Unfortunately, in the less-pleasant world I inhabit, I suspect that this is
| a goal that can't be reached without compromising other, equally important
| things. It's a simple fact that every hour that the MM guys spend working on
| the installer is one less hour spent working on something else - if they
| work on the installer plus the "something else", that increases their
| investment, and will likely result in an increase in the cost of the
| product. Given that they're probably not going to be able to make the
| installer work well enough in every possible situation, that hour may well
| be wasted. Also, the more functionality that is hidden from the person doing
| the install, the less likely that person will be able to deal with
| unexpected install problems when they do occur.
|

I can relate to the point you are making here, In a former life I worked for a
contractor, developing a rather complicated target identification and
acquisition database product for a prime contractor.

That contractor decided to license the product to the Air Force, and being the
sole developer over a period of five years, I had to be pulled off of the
development for 90 days while I had to obtain and learn the nuances of scripting
the required InstallShield package so that the Admins at various Air Force
Installations could install the product.  It was complicated by the simple
install of the application on one CD, and then the creation of 5 additional CDs
which contained the classified data, which had to be installed and connected
seamlessly to the application install.   The script was required to take care of
all connectors, ODBC setup, etc.  Once the package was completed and then
wrapped in DemoShield to allow for branching to the target platform, I found
that the package could be reused over and over again, even as the original
application was updated, enhanced, etc.  No consideration was given to the
importance of the original app vs the installer, as one depended on the other to
be successfully deployed.

Now, I can see the delay in development when a sole developer was involved, but
for a rather large software publisher such as MM, the packaging should be given
the required resources which will only compliment the deployment.  Especially
where there is a rather large team of developers involved.

~|
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Re: Running batch file on server. W2K permissions causing problems.

[Doug White]

Execute permissions is not the same as read permissions
If they are to be allowed to execute, then they must be given read AND execute
permissions.

==
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- Original Message - 
From: "Bushy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:52 AM
Subject: Running batch file on server. W2K permissions causing problems.


| Hi,
|
| I've run into a problem. Under W2K I have created some users and groups. I
have assigned certain groups to specfic users which limits them to file access.
Some users
| have only "read" access to directories while others have "Full" access.
|
| My web-interface on the test machine worked without a flaw. I was created a
batch file. Writing that to the server and then executing it because certain
arguments in the
| batch file gets passed to the .exe.
|
| The problem is if a user with only "read" access to that directory wants to
execute the file I get a 
|
| 
| 
|
|
| ARGH
|
| How can I get around this? Can I write the file as an "Administrator". I don't
see a username/password on the http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4
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