Re: Apache and CF

2004-06-30 Thread Brandon Harper
On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:03:15 -0400, Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> While you can't read the IIS metabase directly very easily, IIS isn't prone
> to having people screw up the httpd.conf file with typos, either. In
> addition, it's very easy to see what's going on in the IIS management
> console.
> 

This is a pretty easy problem to work around (though these are the
paths for FreeBSD):
$cp httpd.conf httpd.conf.bak
$ee httpd.conf (edit file here with your editor of choice)
$/usr/local/sbin/apachectl configtest
(if it fails, you can revert to the backup, or compare them... also
configtest will give you verbose output as to where/why it failed)
$/usr/local/sbin/apachectl restart

There are a few different web/GUI based ways out there of mucking
around in httpd.conf as well if it's too scary for someone.

- Brandon

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RE: Apache and CF

2004-06-30 Thread Dave Watts
> But now, after several years of wrestling with web servers, I'm firmly
> with the "IIS is rubbish" crowd, from my own painful personal
> experience. 
>
> I've had no end of trouble with IIS over the years, from the constant
> security holes and exploits making it almost a full-time job just to
> keep the damn thing reasonably safe, to configuration being dropped and
> sites disappearing for no apparent reason, to the inability to have any
> confidence in backups, to the fact that it's totally insecure by default
> and you have to sit down and work at a vanilla install for several hours
> before anyone with an ounce of knowledge would dare make it public..
> etc etc, you get the idea

It doesn't take several hours to securely configure IIS. I've never had a
problem restoring from an IIS metabase backup in minutes. I deal with a lot
of IIS servers, and I don't usually have to deal with security problems, as
I've configured them securely before deploying them. The vast majority of
IIS exploits take advantage of functionality that practically no one uses,
and that can be safely disabled or removed.

IIS can be managed through a scripting interface, as well as through the IIS
management console, so it's pretty easy to build scripts that do repetitive
tasks and reuse those scripts. 

> With Apache, all config is done with text files, which means that it 
> can be easily backed-up, altered and re-applied by an automated release
> process (e.g. an ANT script) or even by a CF script, or rolled back to 
> a previous version if you've made a mistake

You can do this with metabase backups in IIS as well, although it's a little
harder to alter an offline metabase backup.

> and when it goes wrong (which, in my experience, it virtually never 
> has) you can easily look at it and see EXACTLY what the software itself 
> is seeing, in a human-readable format. After a little practice, it's 
> actually pretty easy to debug. 

While you can't read the IIS metabase directly very easily, IIS isn't prone
to having people screw up the httpd.conf file with typos, either. In
addition, it's very easy to see what's going on in the IIS management
console.

> Admittedly, I haven't used IIS for a couple of years, so
> it may have improved a little... 

IIS 6 uses XML for its metabase, and you can directly edit it if you like.
You can even have edits take effect without cycling the server, I think.

> Also, if you develop and test on Apache for Windows, you can very 
> easily deploy a site on a UNIX or Windows platform without having to 
> worry about the web server config side of things. 

I suspect the most common web server configuration issue is the creation of
virtual directories, in which case paths would be different between Unix and
Windows. 

> Apache is by far the most commonly-used web server out there ... and 
> yet how many security alerts do you hear about worms / viruses / DDOS 
> attacks targeting vulnerabilities in Apache? Now how many for IIS?

Who cares? What I care about is how many attacks target vulnerabilities on
my servers. I'm really not all that concerned about all the poor folks who
don't know how to configure their servers (or in the case of many desktop
users, don't even know they're running them!)

> The prosecution rests, m'lud (or "your honour", for you Americans 
> ;P)

Case dismissed due to lack of evidence. The defendant is free to go.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software 
http://www.figleaf.com/ 
phone: 202-797-5496 
fax: 202-797-5444
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Re: Apache and CF

2004-06-30 Thread Thomas Chiverton
On Wednesday 30 Jun 2004 10:59 am, Alistair Davidson wrote:
> security alerts do you hear about worms / viruses / DDOS attacks
> targeting vulnerabilities in Apache?

Bad timing :-)

-- 
Tom Chiverton 
Advanced ColdFusion Programmer

Tel: +44(0)1749 834997
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
BlueFinger Limited
Underwood Business Park
Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF
Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900
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RE: Apache and CF

2004-06-30 Thread Craig Dudley
IIS 6 is much, much better.

 
If i had a choice we'd be using Apache though, but I don't ;p

-Original Message-
From: Alistair Davidson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 30 June 2004 10:59
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Apache and CF

"... the point being (when taken in context with the rest of this 
paragraph), so many people complain that IIS is rubbish etc etc etc. but

that is 90% because they are rubbish etc. etc. etc. and don't actually 
do any configuration of their server, IIS and so on. ;o)"

Personally, when I started out with web development back in the arse-end
of the twentieth century, I used to love IIS for just the reason Thomas
stated - "wow, a GUI? Isn't it pretty? And I can look like I know what
I'm doing when I really don't"

But now, after several years of wrestling with web servers, I'm firmly
with the "IIS is rubbish" crowd, from my own painful personal
experience. 

I've had no end of trouble with IIS over the years, from the constant
security holes and exploits making it almost a full-time job just to
keep the damn thing reasonably safe, to configuration being dropped and
sites disappearing for no apparent reason, to the inability to have any
confidence in backups, to the fact that it's totally insecure by default
and you have to sit down and work at a vanilla install for several hours
before anyone with an ounce of knowledge would dare make it public..
etc etc, you get the idea

With Apache, all config is done with text files, which means that it can
be easily backed-up, altered and re-applied by an automated release
process (e.g. an ANT script) or even by a CF script, or rolled back to a
previous version if you've made a mistake - and when it goes wrong
(which, in my experience, it virtually never has) you can easily look at
it and see EXACTLY what the software itself is seeing, in a
human-readable format. After a little practice, it's actually pretty
easy to debug. Admittedly, I haven't used IIS for a couple of years, so
it may have improved a little... 

Also, if you develop and test on Apache for Windows, you can very easily
deploy a site on a UNIX or Windows platform without having to worry
about the web server config side of things. 

Apache is by far the most commonly-used web server out there ( e.g.
http://www.securityspace.com/s_survey/data/200405/index.html
  reckons
it has a 70% market share across 14 million servers ) and yet how many
security alerts do you hear about worms / viruses / DDOS attacks
targeting vulnerabilities in Apache? Now how many for IIS?

The prosecution rests, m'lud (or "your honour", for you Americans ;P
)

Alistair Davidson

Senior Technical Developer

Headshift.com

--
HEADSHIFT >>  www.headshift.com  
T: 020 7357 7358  

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RE: Apache and CF

2004-06-30 Thread Alistair Davidson
"... the point being (when taken in context with the rest of this 
paragraph), so many people complain that IIS is rubbish etc etc etc. but

that is 90% because they are rubbish etc. etc. etc. and don't actually 
do any configuration of their server, IIS and so on. ;o)"



Personally, when I started out with web development back in the arse-end
of the twentieth century, I used to love IIS for just the reason Thomas
stated - "wow, a GUI? Isn't it pretty? And I can look like I know what
I'm doing when I really don't"

But now, after several years of wrestling with web servers, I'm firmly
with the "IIS is rubbish" crowd, from my own painful personal
experience. 

I've had no end of trouble with IIS over the years, from the constant
security holes and exploits making it almost a full-time job just to
keep the damn thing reasonably safe, to configuration being dropped and
sites disappearing for no apparent reason, to the inability to have any
confidence in backups, to the fact that it's totally insecure by default
and you have to sit down and work at a vanilla install for several hours
before anyone with an ounce of knowledge would dare make it public..
etc etc, you get the idea

With Apache, all config is done with text files, which means that it can
be easily backed-up, altered and re-applied by an automated release
process (e.g. an ANT script) or even by a CF script, or rolled back to a
previous version if you've made a mistake - and when it goes wrong
(which, in my experience, it virtually never has) you can easily look at
it and see EXACTLY what the software itself is seeing, in a
human-readable format. After a little practice, it's actually pretty
easy to debug. Admittedly, I haven't used IIS for a couple of years, so
it may have improved a little... 

Also, if you develop and test on Apache for Windows, you can very easily
deploy a site on a UNIX or Windows platform without having to worry
about the web server config side of things. 

Apache is by far the most commonly-used web server out there ( e.g.
http://www.securityspace.com/s_survey/data/200405/index.html
  reckons
it has a 70% market share across 14 million servers ) and yet how many
security alerts do you hear about worms / viruses / DDOS attacks
targeting vulnerabilities in Apache? Now how many for IIS?

The prosecution rests, m'lud (or "your honour", for you Americans ;P
)



Alistair Davidson

Senior Technical Developer

Headshift.com

--
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T: 020 7357 7358  

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Re: Apache and CF

2004-06-29 Thread Stephen Moretti (cfmaster)
Thomas Chiverton wrote:

> On Monday 28 Jun 2004 17:21 pm, Stephen Moretti (cfmaster) wrote:
> > Difference between IIS and Apache is that with Apache, you have to know
> > what you're doing before you can use it, with IIS can can get it running
> > without knowing a single thing about web servers.  
>
> Ya see, that's a *good* thing :-)

heh heh

True, but the point being (when taken in context with the rest of this 
paragraph), so many people complain that IIS is rubbish etc etc etc. but 
that is 90% because they are rubbish etc. etc. etc. and don't actually 
do any configuration of their server, IIS and so on. ;o)

Stephen
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Re: Apache and CF

2004-06-29 Thread Thomas Chiverton
On Monday 28 Jun 2004 17:21 pm, Stephen Moretti (cfmaster) wrote:
> Difference between IIS and Apache is that with Apache, you have to know
> what you're doing before you can use it, with IIS can can get it running
> without knowing a single thing about web servers.  

Ya see, that's a *good* thing :-)

-- 
Tom Chiverton 
Advanced ColdFusion Programmer

Tel: +44(0)1749 834997
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
BlueFinger Limited
Underwood Business Park
Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF
Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900
Fax: +44 (0)1749 834901
web: www.bluefinger.com
Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple
Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG.
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Re: Apache and CF

2004-06-28 Thread Mark Drew
I do think Stephen has a point, about learning curve, althought I have
been won over by the easy config as I can port it across development
servers and backup configuration changes

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:30:38 -0700, Barney Boisvert
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> We've been running CF behind apache for years, with no issues.  Started with
> Apache 1.3 and CF 4.5 (at my current employers), then 2.0 and 6.0, and
> currently running 2.0 and 6.1.  Never had a bit of problems with the setup.
> 
> We just cycled CFMX when we applied a large update on June 1, and before
> that the machines and daemons had been running since September of last year
> without interruption.  Hard to argue with that.
> 
> MM.com is also running Apache (on Solaris), both pure web server, and
> connected to JRun for serving dynamic content.
> 
> Cheers,
> barneyb
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mark Drew [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 8:43 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Apache and CF
> >
> > Talking about http://www.linode.com made me think about something. how
> > many people are running CF (5 or MX) on Apache (1 or 2) on production
> > servers? I love apache for my laptop/development environments and I
> > swear by OS X (and swear at PC's!) but I havent come across many
> > production environments using Apache.
> >
> > Any good or bad stories?
> >
> > --
> > Mark Drew
> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> 
>
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RE: Apache and CF

2004-06-28 Thread Barney Boisvert
We've been running CF behind apache for years, with no issues.  Started with
Apache 1.3 and CF 4.5 (at my current employers), then 2.0 and 6.0, and
currently running 2.0 and 6.1.  Never had a bit of problems with the setup.

We just cycled CFMX when we applied a large update on June 1, and before
that the machines and daemons had been running since September of last year
without interruption.  Hard to argue with that.

MM.com is also running Apache (on Solaris), both pure web server, and
connected to JRun for serving dynamic content.

Cheers,
barneyb

> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Drew [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 8:43 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Apache and CF
> 
> Talking about http://www.linode.com made me think about something. how
> many people are running CF (5 or MX) on Apache (1 or 2) on production
> servers? I love apache for my laptop/development environments and I
> swear by OS X (and swear at PC's!) but I havent come across many
> production environments using Apache.
> 
> Any good or bad stories? 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Drew
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>
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Re: Apache and CF

2004-06-28 Thread Stephen Moretti (cfmaster)
>
> > good or bad
>
> Longer uptimes, more responsive, better support and ease of 
> configuration than
> IIS ? How can you resist :-)
>
But then I find that getting help with apache when there is problem is 
extremely poor (usually I get sarcastic script kiddies or no response), 
responsiveness is about the same as IIS, I find IIS stays up just as 
long as Apache and that configuring Apache is a total pain in the butt, 
but I can throw a site in to IIS in seconds.

Why would I swap?  ;o)

BTW - I have windows servers with IIS on and RH9 servers with Apache on. 
Macs... well.. no... frankly the fortnight I've had with stuff to do 
with macs and browsers the only place for them is where the sun don't 
shine!  <<< personal opinion and responses on how ace the Apple Mac OS 
is are not required, cos I don't agree.

To be honest, I don't much care either way with regards apache and IIS.  
I had a real hassle getting MX onto an Apache 2.x server, installing MX 
and apache was easy enough just couldn't get it to pass the pages to 
CFMX, but now that its up and running I haven't done anything to it since.

Difference between IIS and Apache is that with Apache, you have to know 
what you're doing before you can use it, with IIS can can get it running 
without knowing a single thing about web servers.  With IIS, yes you can 
just chuck it up and it will work, but not at its best.  You have to 
know what you are doing with IIS, just as much as you do with apache.

Regards

Stephen
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Re: Apache and CF

2004-06-28 Thread Mark Drew
This was the response I was expecting (I am won over by apache) I can
even run different versions using the virtual hosts (rather than
needing to haev windows server to do that in IIS!!!)

When I used to run apache on a broadband connection (home machine) I
took joy in looking through the logs and see virus and trojan
requiests that would have harmed my system if it was IIS simply  be
ignored by apache.

I think the main thing is that in most of the companies that I have
worked in the webserver is managed by a different person than the
developer... hence it is in the hands of MIS and thus it is IIS

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:15:01 -0400, Rick Root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> For my own company, I've been using Apache so long with CF on both
> Windows and Linux that I can't remember the last time I used CF on IIS.
> 
> We still use IIS here at Duke but I've been very tempted to switch it to
> Apache, except I've never done Apache with SSL on Windows and I'm afraid
> I might have to re-do my SSL certs.
> 
>  - Rick
> 
>
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Re: Apache and CF

2004-06-28 Thread Rick Root
For my own company, I've been using Apache so long with CF on both 
Windows and Linux that I can't remember the last time I used CF on IIS.

We still use IIS here at Duke but I've been very tempted to switch it to 
Apache, except I've never done Apache with SSL on Windows and I'm afraid 
I might have to re-do my SSL certs.

  - Rick
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Re: Apache and CF

2004-06-28 Thread Dave Carabetta
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:43:16 +0200, Mark Drew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Talking about http://www.linode.com made me think about something. how
> many people are running CF (5 or MX) on Apache (1 or 2) on production
> servers? I love apache for my laptop/development environments and I
> swear by OS X (and swear at PC's!) but I havent come across many
> production environments using Apache.

We use Apache 2.0.49 on several Red Hat/Solaris installations we have
of CFMX on top of JRun 4. We've never had a problem with it and
installation is a breeze.

> 
> Any good or bad stories?

Nothing but good experiences with it in a *nix environment, though I
can't speak for Windows as we don't use it.

Regards,
Dave.
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Re: Apache and CF

2004-06-28 Thread Doug White
Runs solid as a rock with CFMX 6.1 on Apache2.x

==
Our Anti-spam solution works!! 
http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm
For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com
http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=1069
==

  - Original 

  Talking about http://www.linode.com made me think about something. how
  many people are running CF (5 or MX) on Apache (1 or 2) on production
  servers? I love apache for my laptop/development environments and I
  swear by OS X (and swear at PC's!) but I havent come across many
  production environments using Apache.

  Any good or bad stories? 

  -- 
  Mark Drew
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Apache and CF

2004-06-28 Thread Thomas Chiverton
On Monday 28 Jun 2004 16:43 pm, Mark Drew wrote:
> Talking about http://www.linode.com made me think about something. how
> many people are running CF (5 or MX) on Apache (1 or 2) on production
> servers?

We certainly are.

> good or bad

Longer uptimes, more responsive, better support and ease of configuration than 
IIS ? How can you resist :-)

-- 
Tom Chiverton 
Advanced ColdFusion Programmer

Tel: +44(0)1749 834997
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
BlueFinger Limited
Underwood Business Park
Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF
Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900
Fax: +44 (0)1749 834901
web: www.bluefinger.com
Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple
Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG.
*** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee
only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us
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Apache and CF

2004-06-28 Thread Mark Drew
Talking about http://www.linode.com made me think about something. how
many people are running CF (5 or MX) on Apache (1 or 2) on production
servers? I love apache for my laptop/development environments and I
swear by OS X (and swear at PC's!) but I havent come across many
production environments using Apache.

Any good or bad stories? 

-- 
Mark Drew
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: apache and cf

2002-07-23 Thread Dave Watts

> I am attempting to set up my workstation with apache 2.0.39, 
> cf 4.5 on a win 2k pro box. I had no problems before when I 
> was using personal web srever on win98. I appear to be serving 
> .htm pages fine via 127.0.0.1 and localhost, so I think I have 
> Apache running fine. I can;t seem to get the cf admin to run 
> though. It keeps downloading and opening up in cf studio. 
> I am thinking apache is not recongnizing the .cfm extension. 
> Could that be it? And if so how do I add .cfm in apache so 
> that it can be recongnized. 

CF 4.5 doesn't run with Apache 2.0.x. There's no Apache 2-compatible module
with CF 4.5. For that matter, if you want to run CF 5 with Apache 2, you
have to use a free, third-party module:

http://home.nextron.ch/coldfusion/

As an alternative, you can get Apache 1.3.x and use that.

In any case, when you do have a version of Apache and a version of CF that
will work with each other, you'll have to configure Apache's httpd.conf file
manually in most cases. The above link describes how that's done; there's
also a document on the Macromedia support site which describes this.

> Cf doesn't appear to be loading at start-up either. ie it is 
> not in the tray. 

Is it in the Startup folder?

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444
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RE: apache and cf

2002-07-23 Thread John Ensign

I believe that the cf module for Apache 2.0 is not compatible with CF server
4.5, and for that matter, with 5.0.
There is however some gents that have written their own cf module for Apache
2.0 that is compatible with CF server 5.0.

This module can be found at: http://home.nextron.ch/coldfusion/.

I am not sure if they(MM) will retro-fit a mod for Apache 2.0 for the
various non MX versions of CF(4.5,5.0).

This was brought up in the CF-Server list last week.

Hope any of this helps,

John Ensign
www.thebinarylab.com

-Original Message-
From: Jeremy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 10:04 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: apache and cf


I am attempting to set up my workstation with apache 2.0.39, cf 4.5 on a win
2k pro box. I had no problems before when I was using personal web srever on
win98. I appear to be serving .htm pages fine via 127.0.0.1 and localhost,
so I think I have Apache running fine. I can;t seem to get the cf admin to
run though. It keeps downloading and opening up in cf studio. I am thinking
apache is not recongnizing the .cfm extension. Could that be it? And if so
how do I add .cfm in apache so that it can be recongnized. Cf doesn't appear
to be loading at start-up either. ie it is not in the tray. Thanks alot.

Jeremy





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Re: apache and cf

2002-07-23 Thread todd

Jeremy,

Bad news, I don't think your ever going to be able to get 4.5 CF working 
on Apache 2.0.39 unless you have access to the source stub files.  CF5 
folks have a .dll out there floating around for Apache builds over 2, but 
.. even then, it's uncertain that Macromedia is ever going to release 
this (and, I doubt they will, they're on MX already).

~Todd

On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Jeremy wrote:

> I am attempting to set up my workstation with apache 2.0.39, cf 4.5 on a win
> 2k pro box. I had no problems before when I was using personal web srever on
> win98. I appear to be serving .htm pages fine via 127.0.0.1 and localhost,
> so I think I have Apache running fine. I can;t seem to get the cf admin to
> run though. It keeps downloading and opening up in cf studio. I am thinking
> apache is not recongnizing the .cfm extension. Could that be it? And if so
> how do I add .cfm in apache so that it can be recongnized. Cf doesn't appear
> to be loading at start-up either. ie it is not in the tray. Thanks alot.
> 
> Jeremy

-- 

Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/ |
Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion   |
http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/  |
http://www.flashCFM.com/   - webRat (Moderator)|
http://www.ultrashock.com/ - webRat (Back-end Moderator)   |


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apache and cf

2002-07-23 Thread Jeremy

I am attempting to set up my workstation with apache 2.0.39, cf 4.5 on a win
2k pro box. I had no problems before when I was using personal web srever on
win98. I appear to be serving .htm pages fine via 127.0.0.1 and localhost,
so I think I have Apache running fine. I can;t seem to get the cf admin to
run though. It keeps downloading and opening up in cf studio. I am thinking
apache is not recongnizing the .cfm extension. Could that be it? And if so
how do I add .cfm in apache so that it can be recongnized. Cf doesn't appear
to be loading at start-up either. ie it is not in the tray. Thanks alot.

Jeremy




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