Re: End result: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Be safe. Get this is writing. Kevin >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/06/01 10:33AM >>> Well, after over a week back and forth with Microsoft's sales and licensing reps, they've come to the conclusion that since I'm not hosting any standalone apps that will be running on SQL Server, i.e., instead the data will be accessed through a web browser, I don't need to be licensed commercially or as an ASP. I can't say that I have a clue what they're talking about, as apparently they're not sure either, but at least if I end up in court I can say under oath that I talked to their licensing reps for over a week and they said "Go for it. Hosting SQL databases for internet access is NOT considered commercial hosting so all you need is CALs and the processor license covers those.". -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
End result: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Well, after over a week back and forth with Microsoft's sales and licensing reps, they've come to the conclusion that since I'm not hosting any standalone apps that will be running on SQL Server, i.e., instead the data will be accessed through a web browser, I don't need to be licensed commercially or as an ASP. I can't say that I have a clue what they're talking about, as apparently they're not sure either, but at least if I end up in court I can say under oath that I talked to their licensing reps for over a week and they said "Go for it. Hosting SQL databases for internet access is NOT considered commercial hosting so all you need is CALs and the processor license covers those.". -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
FYI - There is a massive discussion going on right now on Slashdot about this topic. Are Expensive RDBM Systems Worth The Money? http://slashdot.org/askslashdot/01/03/04/0842229.shtml -Cameron Cameron Childress elliptIQ Inc. p.770.460.7277.232 f.770.460.0963 > -Original Message- > From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:33 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end > > > Since Howie mentioned Interbase a few weeks back, I have looked > at it quite > a bit and I believe with the 1.0 release of the open source Firebird very > close, I would include it in any list with MySQL and PostgreSQL. > > http://www.interbase2000.com/ > > jon > - Original Message - > From: "Arden Weiss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 7:01 PM > Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end > > > > Well doggies... > > > > From all the excellent feedback on this issue of "real good cheaper > > alternatives to SQL Server" it seems I must conclude that the central > theme > > is "There really aren't any real good cheaper alternatives" > > > > The two major alternatives MySQL and PostgreSQL both seems to > have fairly > > significant short commings. However, I must say that the comparison > article > > of MySQL and PostgreSQL at > > http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/tim2705.php3?page=1 > > was excellent (all should read). > > > > Of interest, none of you seem to be advocating SYBASE -- wonder why not. > > Is it possibly because their web site is even more confusing > than M$ site > > -- just a bunch of mumbo jumbo that even this almost smartest retired > > doggie on the planet couldn't figure out. > > > > ^ > > / \__ > >(@\___ > > / O > > /(_/ > > /_/ > > Whoof... > > 410-757-3487 > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Chris Montgomery [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 6:39 PM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end > > > > Bud, > > > > Have you considered just asking some of the web hosting companies what > they > > are required to do as far as SQL Server licensing? I'll bet if > you emailed > > a > > few of them they'd tell ya how they do it. > > > > Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Web Development & Consulting http://www.astutia.com > > Allaire Consulting Partner > > 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 > > AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Bud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 5:29 PM > > > > > > Compare it? How? Microsoft can't tell me how much a license is to > > > commercially host web sites running SQL Server as the database, nor > > > can they tell me where I can even get licensed. All they can tell me > > > is that it's illegal to host databases commercially for my clients, > > > even with processor licenses. > > > -- > > > > > > Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
You can run Sybase for Linux for FREE for development purposes only. It's a great deal if you want a bunch of developers building sites and testing things out. For production use it costs about the same as MSSQL and Oracle (and is just as confusingly priced). I don't know a thing about Sybase for NT/2K (since we never use NT/2K). By the way, everyone is talking AROUND the truth behind RDBMS licensing and pricing. The truth is the vendors (Microsoft, Oracle, and Sybase mainly) want to ability to charge vastly different prices for the same product depending on how big the customer is. A small shop running a little web site, or using an RDBMS as the central-store for an office application (not "MS-OFFICE", just office) could and would only pay about $4K - $10K for the database. A large heavily trafficked (well funded) web site will pay $30K - $100K for (nearly) the same database product. So all the big vendors write the licensing plans so that their salespeople can recommend a product/package that costs the desired amount and point out nitty gritty details in the licensing that support their recommendation. Call Oracle some time and ask them to "assist" you in pricing a database. The price will come out around $80K. Then go figure out your lowest cost licensing for your needs on their web site and the price will come out more like $12K. At 05:10 PM 3/3/01 -0800, paul smith wrote: Good point. I thot there were postings here some time ago about how to get SYBASE free. best, paul At 07:01 PM 3/3/01 -0500, you wrote: >Of interest, none of you seem to be advocating SYBASE -- wonder why not. > Is it possibly because their web site is even more confusing than M$ site >-- just a bunch of mumbo jumbo that even this almost smartest retired >doggie on the planet couldn't figure out ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Since Howie mentioned Interbase a few weeks back, I have looked at it quite a bit and I believe with the 1.0 release of the open source Firebird very close, I would include it in any list with MySQL and PostgreSQL. http://www.interbase2000.com/ jon - Original Message - From: "Arden Weiss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 7:01 PM Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end > Well doggies... > > From all the excellent feedback on this issue of "real good cheaper > alternatives to SQL Server" it seems I must conclude that the central theme > is "There really aren't any real good cheaper alternatives" > > The two major alternatives MySQL and PostgreSQL both seems to have fairly > significant short commings. However, I must say that the comparison article > of MySQL and PostgreSQL at > http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/tim2705.php3?page=1 > was excellent (all should read). > > Of interest, none of you seem to be advocating SYBASE -- wonder why not. > Is it possibly because their web site is even more confusing than M$ site > -- just a bunch of mumbo jumbo that even this almost smartest retired > doggie on the planet couldn't figure out. > > ^ > / \__ >(@\___ > / O > /(_/ > /_/ > Whoof... > 410-757-3487 > > -Original Message----- > From: Chris Montgomery [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 6:39 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end > > Bud, > > Have you considered just asking some of the web hosting companies what they > are required to do as far as SQL Server licensing? I'll bet if you emailed > a > few of them they'd tell ya how they do it. > > Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Web Development & Consulting http://www.astutia.com > Allaire Consulting Partner > 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 > AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 > > > -Original Message- > > From: Bud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 5:29 PM > > > > Compare it? How? Microsoft can't tell me how much a license is to > > commercially host web sites running SQL Server as the database, nor > > can they tell me where I can even get licensed. All they can tell me > > is that it's illegal to host databases commercially for my clients, > > even with processor licenses. > > -- > > > > Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Well, we are a Sybase only shop (as far as development is concerned) and I will swear buy their products, but I was hesitant to reccomend them because I have no idea from their web site what their licenses are like. You are right .. it is very confusing. Still, Sybase is better than SQL Server, in my opnion, and slightly cheaper too, though I'm not 100% sure about the cheaper. Damnit Jim, I'm a developer, not an accountant!! Todd Ashworth Web Application Developer Network Administrator Saber Corporation 314 Oakland Ave. Rock Hill, SC 29730 (803) 327-0137 [111] (p) (803) 328-2868 (f) - Original Message - From: "Arden Weiss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 7:01 PM Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end > Well doggies... > > From all the excellent feedback on this issue of "real good cheaper > alternatives to SQL Server" it seems I must conclude that the central theme > is "There really aren't any real good cheaper alternatives" > > The two major alternatives MySQL and PostgreSQL both seems to have fairly > significant short commings. However, I must say that the comparison article > of MySQL and PostgreSQL at > http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/tim2705.php3?page=1 > was excellent (all should read). > > Of interest, none of you seem to be advocating SYBASE -- wonder why not. > Is it possibly because their web site is even more confusing than M$ site > -- just a bunch of mumbo jumbo that even this almost smartest retired > doggie on the planet couldn't figure out. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Well, it looks like you can still buy SQL Server 7: http://shopping.yahoo.com/shop?d=zsw1&id=1990344488&clink=dmks/sql_server_7&cf=9 best, paul At 07:01 PM 3/3/01 -0500, you wrote: > From all the excellent feedback on this issue of "real good cheaper >alternatives to SQL Server" it seems I must conclude that the central theme >is "There really aren't any real good cheaper alternatives" ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Good point. I thot there were postings here some time ago about how to get SYBASE free. best, paul At 07:01 PM 3/3/01 -0500, you wrote: >Of interest, none of you seem to be advocating SYBASE -- wonder why not. > Is it possibly because their web site is even more confusing than M$ site >-- just a bunch of mumbo jumbo that even this almost smartest retired >doggie on the planet couldn't figure out ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
> Bud, > > Have you considered just asking some of the web hosting companies what they > are required to do as far as SQL Server licensing? I'll bet if you emailed a > few of them they'd tell ya how they do it. You can reach a great many of them at once on a mailing list called [EMAIL PROTECTED] Go to www.isp-planet.com to sign up. Warning: They are a little less professional and a little more short tempered than what you might be used to on CF-Talk. It often reminds me of kids fighting on the playground. I guess it stems from them being a mailing list of competitors instead of being a mailing list of a community, like we are. Best to search the archives first at www.isp-planet.com .. and *then* ask your question, if you don't find your answer, lest you get a RTFM as your answer ;). Also, don't give out any identifying info about your network if you can help it and if you see yourself getting into a "personal" argument with certain members, just play nice. Individuals who tick certain people off in there have been known to have slightly annoying things happen to their networks (see the kids fighting comment above ;). Still, there is a ton of info to be had there. No offense to any isp-webhosting people also on this list, but in certain cases, it's true :) Todd Ashworth Web Application Developer Network Administrator ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Well doggies... >From all the excellent feedback on this issue of "real good cheaper alternatives to SQL Server" it seems I must conclude that the central theme is "There really aren't any real good cheaper alternatives" The two major alternatives MySQL and PostgreSQL both seems to have fairly significant short commings. However, I must say that the comparison article of MySQL and PostgreSQL at http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/tim2705.php3?page=1 was excellent (all should read). Of interest, none of you seem to be advocating SYBASE -- wonder why not. Is it possibly because their web site is even more confusing than M$ site -- just a bunch of mumbo jumbo that even this almost smartest retired doggie on the planet couldn't figure out. ^ / \__ (@\___ / O /(_/ /_/ Whoof... 410-757-3487 -Original Message- From: Chris Montgomery [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 6:39 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end Bud, Have you considered just asking some of the web hosting companies what they are required to do as far as SQL Server licensing? I'll bet if you emailed a few of them they'd tell ya how they do it. Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development & Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 > -Original Message- > From: Bud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 5:29 PM > > Compare it? How? Microsoft can't tell me how much a license is to > commercially host web sites running SQL Server as the database, nor > can they tell me where I can even get licensed. All they can tell me > is that it's illegal to host databases commercially for my clients, > even with processor licenses. > -- > > Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Bud, Have you considered just asking some of the web hosting companies what they are required to do as far as SQL Server licensing? I'll bet if you emailed a few of them they'd tell ya how they do it. Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development & Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 > -Original Message- > From: Bud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 5:29 PM > > Compare it? How? Microsoft can't tell me how much a license is to > commercially host web sites running SQL Server as the database, nor > can they tell me where I can even get licensed. All they can tell me > is that it's illegal to host databases commercially for my clients, > even with processor licenses. > -- > > Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
On 3/3/01, Benjamin S. Rogers penned: >Given this, comparing >Microsoft SQL Server's licensing and pricing scenarios to other RDBMSs (such >as Oracle, Sybase, Informix, etc.) would seem to suggest that Microsoft SQL >Server is priced fairly. Compare it? How? Microsoft can't tell me how much a license is to commercially host web sites running SQL Server as the database, nor can they tell me where I can even get licensed. All they can tell me is that it's illegal to host databases commercially for my clients, even with processor licenses. -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
>We have used MySQL to great success, but the above statement really >misstates the case. MySQL is missing many features necessary to the daily >operation of a RDBMS. It is really only a marginal step up from Access in >this manner. > >In many scenarios, MySQL is (much) faster than Microsoft SQL Server. >However, this speed comes at a terrible price, including data integrity. >There is no row level locking or transactions built into MySQL, no column or >table constraints, no default values for columns, no foreign keys, no stored >procedures, no sub-selects or views, no TRUE or FALSE constants, no UNION >statements, etc. We use these throughout our code liberally ever day. ok, this is what I've heard about MySQL which pretty much disqualifies it for many CF applications. Has anybody gotten CF/Win32 working into Postgres? That looks a serious, free, full-featured replacement for commercial SQL, and even offers commercial support option from postgres.com. Len http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : Binary for ISC BIND 8.2.3 for NT4 & W2K http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-spam mail gateways ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
> MySQL does pretty much everything MSSQL does, uses less resources, is > faster, is more stable, and only costs $200 for a commercial licence and is > free otherwise. There really is NO competition here. We have used MySQL to great success, but the above statement really misstates the case. MySQL is missing many features necessary to the daily operation of a RDBMS. It is really only a marginal step up from Access in this manner. In many scenarios, MySQL is (much) faster than Microsoft SQL Server. However, this speed comes at a terrible price, including data integrity. There is no row level locking or transactions built into MySQL, no column or table constraints, no default values for columns, no foreign keys, no stored procedures, no sub-selects or views, no TRUE or FALSE constants, no UNION statements, etc. We use these throughout our code liberally ever day. It is true that MySQL uses less resources, but that is because Microsoft SQL Server makes much better use of hardware and has all the features required of an RDBMS. If you give Microsoft SQL Server a Gig of RAM, it will allocate every last meg so that it is available when needed. From my experience, this preferable to a server that sits idle and has to allocate and deallocate resources on the fly while trying to answer requests. Consequently, we have seen no performances issues with either database, though I've heard MySQL can only handle so many (~40) concurrent requests before it becomes unstable. Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that MySQL is not the best solution for you, as it has been for some of the projects we've been involved in in the past, but there really is no comparison between MySQL and Microsoft SQL Server or MySQL and any other full featured RDBMS. Given this, comparing Microsoft SQL Server's licensing and pricing scenarios to other RDBMSs (such as Oracle, Sybase, Informix, etc.) would seem to suggest that Microsoft SQL Server is priced fairly. Benjamin S. Rogers Web Developer, c4.net Voice: (508) 240-0051 Fax: (508) 240-0057 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
> > I know very little about MSDE or Interbase, except that many people find > these to be reasonable alternatives to Microsoft SQL Server in Windows > environments. I believe MSDE can be installed off of the Office Server > Extensions disc, and is probably a good solution for your company if most of > your code has already been developed for Microsoft SQL Server. Interbase is > now an open source project. I beleive I read that if you buy VB6 or VC++ you will be able to deploy MSDE for FREE! Is ther anyone out there that has been brave enough to test/deploy MSDE under load, depsite the 5 user recommendation of M$? Also, it installs quite nicely from Access 2000 CD :-) Steve ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
To be honest there were 2 reasons for my company to use MySQL over MSSQL that might help you make your decision. 1) MSSQL is ridiculously expensive to the point where it is almost funny. 2) NO ONE knows ANYTHING about the over complex licensing issues. Not even Microsoft. Please don't mistake this for MS bashing, for most things I like Microsoft products, but with SQL they are quite frankly taking the piss. MySQL does pretty much everything MSSQL does, uses less resources, is faster, is more stable, and only costs $200 for a commercial licence and is free otherwise. There really is NO competition here. -- James Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainbench transcript ID: 822462 http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=822462 - Original Message - From: "Angel Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:08 PM Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end > i.e. most of the people running such sites are not properly licensed because > Microsoft requires you go on a course and sit an exam to be Microsoft > Licensing Professional Certified. > ROFLMAO > ^_^ > > > *ahem* > sorry..returning you to regularly scheduled serious stuff now.. > hee hee > -Gel > www.carigamer.com > > > -Original Message- > From: Bud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > How can they make this such a debacle? SAY IT!!! The license is > $.xx. Call here. Pay here. Sign here. > -- > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Yeah, I was figuring he could save another thousand $'s or so, and run
Linux or BSD. The cygwin thing is a bit rough.
"Benjamin S. Rogers" wrote:
>
> I was going to recommend PostgeSQL, but it sounds like his OS environment is
> Windows. In which case, I wouldn't recommend PostgreSQL at all, having tried
> to install PostgreSQL on NT in the past myself.
>
> You are correct, however, in asserting that PostgreSQL probably has most of
> what he is looking for. PostgreSQL is far more ANSI compliant than MySQL
> and has many of the advanced features traditionally associated with a RDBMS.
>
> Benjamin S. Rogers
> Web Developer, c4.net
> Voice: (508) 240-0051
> Fax: (508) 240-0057
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Edward Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 9:43 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
>
> PostgreSQL: http://www.postgresql.org/index.html
>
> It will probably have just about every feature you're looking for.
>
> What features are you looking for?
>
> Here's an interesting article of MySQL vs. PostgreSQL:
>
> http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/tim2705.php3?page=1
>
> You won't see any comparisons or benchmarks with SQL Server or Oracle,
> as the EULA's for SQL Server and Oracle prevent you from doing this.
>
> Arden Weiss wrote:
> >
> > So -- even the M$ sales and licensing staff at their call centers gave me
> > identical "wrong" information when I posed the explicit question about
> > using Cold Fusion to access SQL Server backend -- they both said
> > one-license, because Cold Fusion was the "user" whereas the statement
> > extracted from the licensing statement you provided below states:
> >
> > "Hardware or software that reduces the number of Devices directly
> > accessing or using the Server Software does not reduce the number of
> > required CALs. The number you need is based on the number of distinct
> > inputs to the hardware or software 'front end.'"
> >
> > Otherwise -- 25 users simutaneously hitting Cold Fusion -- 25 CALS -- or
> > the per CPU licesing option (on the box on which SQL Server is installed I
> > assume).
> >
> > Sounds like M$ is trying its best to motivate folks like us to find the
> > best "alternative" solution -- especially when their product has gotten to
> > the point where it may be an "overkill" for the majority of our Cold
> Fusion
> > applications.
> >
> > In that vein -- what is the "best cheaper alternative" to SQL Server?
> >
> > ^
> > / \__
> >(@\___
> > / O
> > /(_/
> > /_/
> > Whoof...
> > 410-757-3487
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Steve Aylor [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 2:42 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject:Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
> >
> > Full Product at Estimated Retail Price
> >
> > http://www.microsoft.com/sql/productinfo/pricing.htm
> >
> > SQL Server 2000Enterprise EditionStandard EditionDeveloper Edition
> >
> > Processor Licensing $19,999 US per processor$4,999 US per processor
> >
> > SQL Server Processor Licensing Clarification
> >
> > http://www.microsoft.com/sql/productinfo/multiplexing.htm
> >
> > With the recent introduction of Processor Licensing for the Microsoft?
> ..NET
> > Enterprise Servers, some independent software vendors (ISVs) have raised
> > questions as to the proper way to license SQL Server when using it as part
> > of the ISV's software application. This has particularly been an issue for
> > vendors of system management tools and their customers, who have requested
> > a
> > more simplified licensing solution tailored for their specific needs.
> > Microsoft SQL Server and System Management Tools
> > As is true for all Microsoft products, SQL Server use is defined in the
> > End-User Licensing Agreement (EULA) that accompanies all editions of SQL
> > Server 2000 (or any previous version). There are two ways to license SQL
> > Server 2000:
> > Processor License
> > Server and Client Access Licenses (CALs)
> > The Server and CAL model is described in the EULA as follows: "SQL Server
> > 2000 Client Access License ('CAL') Requirements. CALs that you acquire may
> > only be used in conjunction with your Server Software. You must acquire a
> > separate CAL for each device that.accesses or otherwise utilize
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
I was going to recommend PostgeSQL, but it sounds like his OS environment is
Windows. In which case, I wouldn't recommend PostgreSQL at all, having tried
to install PostgreSQL on NT in the past myself.
You are correct, however, in asserting that PostgreSQL probably has most of
what he is looking for. PostgreSQL is far more ANSI compliant than MySQL
and has many of the advanced features traditionally associated with a RDBMS.
Benjamin S. Rogers
Web Developer, c4.net
Voice: (508) 240-0051
Fax: (508) 240-0057
-Original Message-
From: Edward Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 9:43 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
PostgreSQL: http://www.postgresql.org/index.html
It will probably have just about every feature you're looking for.
What features are you looking for?
Here's an interesting article of MySQL vs. PostgreSQL:
http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/tim2705.php3?page=1
You won't see any comparisons or benchmarks with SQL Server or Oracle,
as the EULA's for SQL Server and Oracle prevent you from doing this.
Arden Weiss wrote:
>
> So -- even the M$ sales and licensing staff at their call centers gave me
> identical "wrong" information when I posed the explicit question about
> using Cold Fusion to access SQL Server backend -- they both said
> one-license, because Cold Fusion was the "user" whereas the statement
> extracted from the licensing statement you provided below states:
>
> "Hardware or software that reduces the number of Devices directly
> accessing or using the Server Software does not reduce the number of
> required CALs. The number you need is based on the number of distinct
> inputs to the hardware or software 'front end.'"
>
> Otherwise -- 25 users simutaneously hitting Cold Fusion -- 25 CALS -- or
> the per CPU licesing option (on the box on which SQL Server is installed I
> assume).
>
> Sounds like M$ is trying its best to motivate folks like us to find the
> best "alternative" solution -- especially when their product has gotten to
> the point where it may be an "overkill" for the majority of our Cold
Fusion
> applications.
>
> In that vein -- what is the "best cheaper alternative" to SQL Server?
>
> ^
> / \__
>(@\___
> / O
> /(_/
> /_/
> Whoof...
> 410-757-3487
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Steve Aylor [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 2:42 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject:Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
>
> Full Product at Estimated Retail Price
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/sql/productinfo/pricing.htm
>
> SQL Server 2000Enterprise EditionStandard EditionDeveloper Edition
>
> Processor Licensing $19,999 US per processor$4,999 US per processor
>
> SQL Server Processor Licensing Clarification
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/sql/productinfo/multiplexing.htm
>
> With the recent introduction of Processor Licensing for the Microsoft?
..NET
> Enterprise Servers, some independent software vendors (ISVs) have raised
> questions as to the proper way to license SQL Server when using it as part
> of the ISV's software application. This has particularly been an issue for
> vendors of system management tools and their customers, who have requested
> a
> more simplified licensing solution tailored for their specific needs.
> Microsoft SQL Server and System Management Tools
> As is true for all Microsoft products, SQL Server use is defined in the
> End-User Licensing Agreement (EULA) that accompanies all editions of SQL
> Server 2000 (or any previous version). There are two ways to license SQL
> Server 2000:
> Processor License
> Server and Client Access Licenses (CALs)
> The Server and CAL model is described in the EULA as follows: "SQL Server
> 2000 Client Access License ('CAL') Requirements. CALs that you acquire may
> only be used in conjunction with your Server Software. You must acquire a
> separate CAL for each device that.accesses or otherwise utilizes the
> services of the Server Software."
> Additionally, there is specific language that attempts to clarify the use
> of
> applications that are installed between the end user and the SQL Server:
> "'Multiplexing.' Hardware or software that reduces the number of Devices
> directly accessing or using the Server Software does not reduce the number
> of required CALs. The number you need is based on the number of distinct
> inputs to the hardware or software 'front end.'"
> Despite this language, our ISV partners have been unclear as to exactly
how
> many CALs are needed when using system management tools fr
Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
There is one interesting tid bit to all this, at least for SQL7. "In a full-text catalog, you can run only eight searches at one time. If you begin a ninth search, Microsoft Search Service will hold it in a queue." SQL Server Magazine Online - Build a Better Search Engine, May 23, 2000. So 8 CALs will do for SQL7 doing full-text searches only. best, paul PS> I wonder if SQL2000 full-text search also has the limit of 8? At 11:42 PM 3/2/01 -0800, you wrote: >Additionally, there is specific language that attempts to clarify the use of >applications that are installed between the end user and the SQL Server: >"'Multiplexing.' Hardware or software that reduces the number of Devices >directly accessing or using the Server Software does not reduce the number >of required CALs. The number you need is based on the number of distinct >inputs to the hardware or software 'front end.'" ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
PostgreSQL: http://www.postgresql.org/index.html
It will probably have just about every feature you're looking for.
What features are you looking for?
Here's an interesting article of MySQL vs. PostgreSQL:
http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/tim2705.php3?page=1
You won't see any comparisons or benchmarks with SQL Server or Oracle,
as the EULA's for SQL Server and Oracle prevent you from doing this.
Arden Weiss wrote:
>
> So -- even the M$ sales and licensing staff at their call centers gave me
> identical "wrong" information when I posed the explicit question about
> using Cold Fusion to access SQL Server backend -- they both said
> one-license, because Cold Fusion was the "user" whereas the statement
> extracted from the licensing statement you provided below states:
>
> "Hardware or software that reduces the number of Devices directly
> accessing or using the Server Software does not reduce the number of
> required CALs. The number you need is based on the number of distinct
> inputs to the hardware or software 'front end.'"
>
> Otherwise -- 25 users simutaneously hitting Cold Fusion -- 25 CALS -- or
> the per CPU licesing option (on the box on which SQL Server is installed I
> assume).
>
> Sounds like M$ is trying its best to motivate folks like us to find the
> best "alternative" solution -- especially when their product has gotten to
> the point where it may be an "overkill" for the majority of our Cold Fusion
> applications.
>
> In that vein -- what is the "best cheaper alternative" to SQL Server?
>
> ^
> / \__
>(@\___
> / O
> /(_/
> /_/
> Whoof...
> 410-757-3487
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Steve Aylor [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 2:42 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject:Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
>
> Full Product at Estimated Retail Price
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/sql/productinfo/pricing.htm
>
> SQL Server 2000Enterprise EditionStandard EditionDeveloper Edition
>
> Processor Licensing $19,999 US per processor$4,999 US per processor
>
> SQL Server Processor Licensing Clarification
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/sql/productinfo/multiplexing.htm
>
> With the recent introduction of Processor Licensing for the Microsoft? .NET
> Enterprise Servers, some independent software vendors (ISVs) have raised
> questions as to the proper way to license SQL Server when using it as part
> of the ISV's software application. This has particularly been an issue for
> vendors of system management tools and their customers, who have requested
> a
> more simplified licensing solution tailored for their specific needs.
> Microsoft SQL Server and System Management Tools
> As is true for all Microsoft products, SQL Server use is defined in the
> End-User Licensing Agreement (EULA) that accompanies all editions of SQL
> Server 2000 (or any previous version). There are two ways to license SQL
> Server 2000:
> Processor License
> Server and Client Access Licenses (CALs)
> The Server and CAL model is described in the EULA as follows: "SQL Server
> 2000 Client Access License ('CAL') Requirements. CALs that you acquire may
> only be used in conjunction with your Server Software. You must acquire a
> separate CAL for each device that.accesses or otherwise utilizes the
> services of the Server Software."
> Additionally, there is specific language that attempts to clarify the use
> of
> applications that are installed between the end user and the SQL Server:
> "'Multiplexing.' Hardware or software that reduces the number of Devices
> directly accessing or using the Server Software does not reduce the number
> of required CALs. The number you need is based on the number of distinct
> inputs to the hardware or software 'front end.'"
> Despite this language, our ISV partners have been unclear as to exactly how
> many CALs are needed when using system management tools from vendors such
> as
> Computer Associates, BMC, NetIQ, Intel, HP (OpenView) and Microsoft
> (Systems
> Management Server).
> Recommended Procedure-Processor License
> Microsoft has implemented a processor-based licensing model to address the
> special needs of the ISV community and to simplify the licensing model.
> Under this new model, a customer acquires a Processor License for each
> processor running their server software.
> A Processor License includes access for an unlimited number of devices to
> connect from either inside the corporate LAN or WAN or outside the
> firewall.
> Customers do not need to purchase additiona
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Keep in mind that the price of SQL Server hasn't gone up because of these licensing changes. When Microsoft realized SQL Server was being deployed more and more on the Internet, they introduced the Internet Connector license, which obviates the issue of having to purchase a CAL for every simultaneous connection from an Internet user in cases where you would have more than a couple Internet users connected at the same time. Now, they have introduced a third licensing scheme, the per CPU license, which works more like what we're used to seeing from many other products. This is beneficial to many of our clients that have 20 to 30 staff members using accounting or brokerage software that works out of a centralized SQL Server database. The important point here is that through all of this, the price hasn't really increased. Instead, the licensing options have. Confusing as they may be, and dim witted as the Microsoft sales personnel are, this gives us far more leeway in pricing projects for customers of different sizes and with different needs, using a single RDBMS solution. Oh well, enough of the propaganda. :) To answer your question, there are several other low cost RDBMS solutions available. Some of these include MySQL, MSDE, and Interbase. Of course, each have their own shortcomings. Last time I checked, MySQL is less ANSI compliant than most other RDBMSs and lacks many of the advanced features of other offerings, including stored procedures, triggers, and row level locking. It also lacks extensions to the SQL language like the Microsoft/Sybase Transact-SQL language. Many would argue this is a good thing, but I find we use pieces of Transact-SQL throughout much of our code. However, partly because of the simplicity offered by the lack of these features, MySQL is extremely fast on SELECTS. And for an open source application, it actually has an extremely "Windows-friendly" install. :) I know very little about MSDE or Interbase, except that many people find these to be reasonable alternatives to Microsoft SQL Server in Windows environments. I believe MSDE can be installed off of the Office Server Extensions disc, and is probably a good solution for your company if most of your code has already been developed for Microsoft SQL Server. Interbase is now an open source project. Hope I did more than preach about Microsoft's licensing and offered a few viable alternatives. :) Benjamin S. Rogers Web Developer, c4.net Voice: (508) 240-0051 Fax: (508) 240-0057 -Original Message- From: Arden Weiss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 7:23 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end So -- even the M$ sales and licensing staff at their call centers gave me identical "wrong" information when I posed the explicit question about using Cold Fusion to access SQL Server backend -- they both said one-license, because Cold Fusion was the "user" whereas the statement extracted from the licensing statement you provided below states: . "Hardware or software that reduces the number of Devices directly accessing or using the Server Software does not reduce the number of required CALs. The number you need is based on the number of distinct inputs to the hardware or software 'front end.'" Otherwise -- 25 users simutaneously hitting Cold Fusion -- 25 CALS -- or the per CPU licesing option (on the box on which SQL Server is installed I assume). Sounds like M$ is trying its best to motivate folks like us to find the best "alternative" solution -- especially when their product has gotten to the point where it may be an "overkill" for the majority of our Cold Fusion applications. In that vein -- what is the "best cheaper alternative" to SQL Server? ^ / \__ (@\___ / O /(_/ /_/ Whoof... 410-757-3487 -Original Message- From: Steve Aylor [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 2:42 AM To: CF-Talk Subject:Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end Full Product at Estimated Retail Price http://www.microsoft.com/sql/productinfo/pricing.htm SQL Server 2000Enterprise EditionStandard EditionDeveloper Edition Processor Licensing $19,999 US per processor$4,999 US per processor SQL Server Processor Licensing Clarification http://www.microsoft.com/sql/productinfo/multiplexing.htm With the recent introduction of Processor Licensing for the Microsoft? .NET Enterprise Servers, some independent software vendors (ISVs) have raised questions as to the proper way to license SQL Server when using it as part of the ISV's software application. This has particularly been an issue for vendors of system management tools and their customers, who have requested a more simplified licensing solution tailored for their specific needs. Microsoft SQL Server and System Management Tools As is true for all Microsoft products,
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
So -- even the M$ sales and licensing staff at their call centers gave me
identical "wrong" information when I posed the explicit question about
using Cold Fusion to access SQL Server backend -- they both said
one-license, because Cold Fusion was the "user" whereas the statement
extracted from the licensing statement you provided below states:
"Hardware or software that reduces the number of Devices directly
accessing or using the Server Software does not reduce the number of
required CALs. The number you need is based on the number of distinct
inputs to the hardware or software 'front end.'"
Otherwise -- 25 users simutaneously hitting Cold Fusion -- 25 CALS -- or
the per CPU licesing option (on the box on which SQL Server is installed I
assume).
Sounds like M$ is trying its best to motivate folks like us to find the
best "alternative" solution -- especially when their product has gotten to
the point where it may be an "overkill" for the majority of our Cold Fusion
applications.
In that vein -- what is the "best cheaper alternative" to SQL Server?
^
/ \__
(@\___
/ O
/(_/
/_/
Whoof...
410-757-3487
-Original Message-
From: Steve Aylor [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 2:42 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject:Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Full Product at Estimated Retail Price
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/productinfo/pricing.htm
SQL Server 2000Enterprise EditionStandard EditionDeveloper Edition
Processor Licensing $19,999 US per processor$4,999 US per processor
SQL Server Processor Licensing Clarification
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/productinfo/multiplexing.htm
With the recent introduction of Processor Licensing for the Microsoft? .NET
Enterprise Servers, some independent software vendors (ISVs) have raised
questions as to the proper way to license SQL Server when using it as part
of the ISV's software application. This has particularly been an issue for
vendors of system management tools and their customers, who have requested
a
more simplified licensing solution tailored for their specific needs.
Microsoft SQL Server and System Management Tools
As is true for all Microsoft products, SQL Server use is defined in the
End-User Licensing Agreement (EULA) that accompanies all editions of SQL
Server 2000 (or any previous version). There are two ways to license SQL
Server 2000:
Processor License
Server and Client Access Licenses (CALs)
The Server and CAL model is described in the EULA as follows: "SQL Server
2000 Client Access License ('CAL') Requirements. CALs that you acquire may
only be used in conjunction with your Server Software. You must acquire a
separate CAL for each device that.accesses or otherwise utilizes the
services of the Server Software."
Additionally, there is specific language that attempts to clarify the use
of
applications that are installed between the end user and the SQL Server:
"'Multiplexing.' Hardware or software that reduces the number of Devices
directly accessing or using the Server Software does not reduce the number
of required CALs. The number you need is based on the number of distinct
inputs to the hardware or software 'front end.'"
Despite this language, our ISV partners have been unclear as to exactly how
many CALs are needed when using system management tools from vendors such
as
Computer Associates, BMC, NetIQ, Intel, HP (OpenView) and Microsoft
(Systems
Management Server).
Recommended Procedure-Processor License
Microsoft has implemented a processor-based licensing model to address the
special needs of the ISV community and to simplify the licensing model.
Under this new model, a customer acquires a Processor License for each
processor running their server software.
A Processor License includes access for an unlimited number of devices to
connect from either inside the corporate LAN or WAN or outside the
firewall.
Customers do not need to purchase additional Server licenses or CALs. The
Processor License is all they need.
Based on a review of system management tool vendors and their products,
Microsoft will communicate that the appropriate licensing method for these
vendors is Processor Licensing.
All system management tool vendors should communicate to their customers,
field account managers, inside sales departments, and resellers that the
appropriate licensing method for Microsoft SQL Server 2000 when used in
conjunction with their product is Processor Licensing. Microsoft will be
communicating the same message to their field account managers and
resellers
as well.
~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at
http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Full Product at Estimated Retail Price
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/productinfo/pricing.htm
SQL Server 2000Enterprise EditionStandard EditionDeveloper Edition
Processor Licensing $19,999 US per processor$4,999 US per processor
SQL Server Processor Licensing Clarification
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/productinfo/multiplexing.htm
With the recent introduction of Processor Licensing for the Microsoft® .NET
Enterprise Servers, some independent software vendors (ISVs) have raised
questions as to the proper way to license SQL Server when using it as part
of the ISV's software application. This has particularly been an issue for
vendors of system management tools and their customers, who have requested a
more simplified licensing solution tailored for their specific needs.
Microsoft SQL Server and System Management Tools
As is true for all Microsoft products, SQL Server use is defined in the
End-User Licensing Agreement (EULA) that accompanies all editions of SQL
Server 2000 (or any previous version). There are two ways to license SQL
Server 2000:
Processor License
Server and Client Access Licenses (CALs)
The Server and CAL model is described in the EULA as follows: "SQL Server
2000 Client Access License ('CAL') Requirements. CALs that you acquire may
only be used in conjunction with your Server Software. You must acquire a
separate CAL for each device that.accesses or otherwise utilizes the
services of the Server Software."
Additionally, there is specific language that attempts to clarify the use of
applications that are installed between the end user and the SQL Server:
"'Multiplexing.' Hardware or software that reduces the number of Devices
directly accessing or using the Server Software does not reduce the number
of required CALs. The number you need is based on the number of distinct
inputs to the hardware or software 'front end.'"
Despite this language, our ISV partners have been unclear as to exactly how
many CALs are needed when using system management tools from vendors such as
Computer Associates, BMC, NetIQ, Intel, HP (OpenView) and Microsoft (Systems
Management Server).
Recommended Procedure-Processor License
Microsoft has implemented a processor-based licensing model to address the
special needs of the ISV community and to simplify the licensing model.
Under this new model, a customer acquires a Processor License for each
processor running their server software.
A Processor License includes access for an unlimited number of devices to
connect from either inside the corporate LAN or WAN or outside the firewall.
Customers do not need to purchase additional Server licenses or CALs. The
Processor License is all they need.
Based on a review of system management tool vendors and their products,
Microsoft will communicate that the appropriate licensing method for these
vendors is Processor Licensing.
All system management tool vendors should communicate to their customers,
field account managers, inside sales departments, and resellers that the
appropriate licensing method for Microsoft SQL Server 2000 when used in
conjunction with their product is Processor Licensing. Microsoft will be
communicating the same message to their field account managers and resellers
as well.
~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at
http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
I stayed with SQL7. It does all I need. best, paul At 08:59 PM 3/2/01 -0500, you wrote: >I still haven't gotten an answer from anyone though. Is there anyone >else out there hosting websites, other than their own, and using SQL >2000 as the database? If so, how are you licensed? I guess with this >can of worms I'm opening, everyone is scared to answer ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
On 3/2/01, Jim McAtee penned: >Hell, if they can't figure it out themselves, why lose sleep over it? Fire >up the server and get on with your life. I guess that's the next step. Somehow I figure their roving "License Cops" probably do understand it though. :) I still haven't gotten an answer from anyone though. Is there anyone else out there hosting websites, other than their own, and using SQL 2000 as the database? If so, how are you licensed? I guess with this can of worms I'm opening, everyone is scared to answer. -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Hell, if they can't figure it out themselves, why lose sleep over it? Fire up the server and get on with your life. Jim - Original Message - From: "Bud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 2:59 PM Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end > Thanks for all the responses. I'll keep you posted. I guess as soon > as the gal at Microsoft can figure out how their licensing works > she'll let me know. For now though, according to the retailer that > supposedly sells Microsoft Commercial Internet Services licensed > products, they've never sold one, and have never heard of it, so > there can't be too many people following the rules. > > Of course, I'm very much expecting it's going to be out of my price > range if and when I do get an answer. > -- > > Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations > > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ > ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.twcreations.com/ > 954.721.3452 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
sweet. thanks. -Original Message- From: Chris Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 12:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end A colleague in our CFUG told me about the MSDN Business Connection program. After being accepted into that program (it's free to join), they offer members a special Universal Sub annual price of $599 + tax. But this isn't well publicized at the MSDN Business Connections site unless you log in (after being accepted into the program). Here is the link to info about the MSDN Business Connection program: http://msdnisv.microsoft.com/ Hope that helps clarify the issue. Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development & Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 > -Original Message- > From: Dylan Bromby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 12:56 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end > > > ok here's MS pricing for MSDN with universal at $2,499. how can i > get it for > $599? sorry if i missed the previous post. > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/prodinfo/pricing.asp > > --dylan ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Thanks for all the responses. I'll keep you posted. I guess as soon as the gal at Microsoft can figure out how their licensing works she'll let me know. For now though, according to the retailer that supposedly sells Microsoft Commercial Internet Services licensed products, they've never sold one, and have never heard of it, so there can't be too many people following the rules. Of course, I'm very much expecting it's going to be out of my price range if and when I do get an answer. -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
A colleague in our CFUG told me about the MSDN Business Connection program. After being accepted into that program (it's free to join), they offer members a special Universal Sub annual price of $599 + tax. But this isn't well publicized at the MSDN Business Connections site unless you log in (after being accepted into the program). Here is the link to info about the MSDN Business Connection program: http://msdnisv.microsoft.com/ Hope that helps clarify the issue. Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development & Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 > -Original Message- > From: Dylan Bromby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 12:56 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end > > > ok here's MS pricing for MSDN with universal at $2,499. how can i > get it for > $599? sorry if i missed the previous post. > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/prodinfo/pricing.asp > > --dylan ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
A repost of my findings follows: Regarding Licensing of SQL Server 2000, the Standard Edition of SQL Server 2000 (Part Number 228-00782) at a M$ retail cost of $665.00 is available only via the Open License Program which says you must by at least five products -- but the M$ sales guys said even low cost training courseware like the $15 how to use Access qualifies -- so for about $700 you can get a single-user version of SQL Server 2000 Standard Edition. Otherwise, the cost of the five-user Standard Edition is $1,489 retail ($1,379 from PC Connection). There also is a full featured Developer's Edition for $499 retail ($468.41 at PC Connection) that, of course, works fine locally for development purposes, but can't be used for production/commercial purposes but has the feature set of the Enterprise Edition as I understand. This does not address the initial post regarding commercial usage -- which is whole different bag of M$ worms per post by Bud... See www.microsoft.com/sql/productinfo/pricing.htm ^ / \__ (@\___ / O /(_/ /_/ Whoof... 410-757-3487 -Original Message- From: Dylan Bromby [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 1:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end ok here's MS pricing for MSDN with universal at $2,499. how can i get it for $599? sorry if i missed the previous post. http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/prodinfo/pricing.asp --dylan -Original Message- From: Chris Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 10:41 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end You can get it for $599. I posted about that the other day. Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development & Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 > -Original Message- > From: Dylan Bromby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 9:33 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end > > > MSDN doesn't include commercial licensing, which is what he was > looking for. > > and universal is only $2,500. > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
ok here's MS pricing for MSDN with universal at $2,499. how can i get it for $599? sorry if i missed the previous post. http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/prodinfo/pricing.asp --dylan -Original Message- From: Chris Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 10:41 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end You can get it for $599. I posted about that the other day. Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development & Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 > -Original Message- > From: Dylan Bromby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 9:33 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end > > > MSDN doesn't include commercial licensing, which is what he was > looking for. > > and universal is only $2,500. > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
You can get it for $599. I posted about that the other day. Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development & Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 > -Original Message- > From: Dylan Bromby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 9:33 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end > > > MSDN doesn't include commercial licensing, which is what he was > looking for. > > and universal is only $2,500. > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
i.e. most of the people running such sites are not properly licensed because Microsoft requires you go on a course and sit an exam to be Microsoft Licensing Professional Certified. ROFLMAO ^_^ *ahem* sorry..returning you to regularly scheduled serious stuff now.. hee hee -Gel www.carigamer.com -Original Message- From: Bud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] How can they make this such a debacle? SAY IT!!! The license is $.xx. Call here. Pay here. Sign here. -- ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
MSDN doesn't include commercial licensing, which is what he was looking for. and universal is only $2,500. -Original Message- From: Martin Sutton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 7:21 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end Go for MSDN, you get all Microsoft software for in house use. I think its $15k / year. Thats worth a look because you get all versions and all updates of all their software. I think thats right, my company is on MSDN and we get everything - LEGAL DISCLAIMER -- This message and any attachments to it is intended only for the individual or company to which it is addressed and may contain information which is privileged, confidential or prohibited from disclosure or unauthorised use. If the recipient of this transmission is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering such materials to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this e-mail message or its attachments other than by its intended recipient is strictly prohibited by the sender. If you have received it in error, please return it to the sender and destroy the message and/or copies in your possession. The views or opinions expressed in this email are that of the individual and not necessarily those of A.B.C (Systems and Development) Limited or any of it's subsidiaries. -Original Message- From: Bud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 02 March 2001 15:00 To: CF-Talk Subject: M$ licensing has me at wits end AAARRRGGGHH! OK, so. I get my copy of SQL Server 2000 with the Processor license thinking that's all I'm going to need. Open the box, read the license. WHOOPS! No commercial hosting allowed under this license. Seems it's only good for your own personal website. Great deal for 4,200.00. So, now I've spent the past 3 days on and off the phone with Microsoft. First I need an Application Service provider license. "Get it from Dell or CDW" they say. Call Dell and CDW. "What's an Application Service Provider license?" is the response from both of them. Back on the phone with Microsoft. "Oh. you were misled. You need the Microsoft Commercial Internet Services license. To be licensed as an ASP, you have to have at least 2 people MCSE certified that work for the company". Send me to their web page. Read that I need a MCSI "Server" license and MCSI "Domain Access license" for every domain using SQL. There are only 2 companies in the US that sell MCIS licenses. Call the first one. "What's a Microsoft Commercial Internet Services license? What's a Domain Access license? We'll try and find out what you're talking about and call you back.". Is anyone out there hosting commercial web sites and using SQL Server as the database? How are you licensed? If as a MCSI, where did you get it? Are you just pretending ignorant and using the processor license or CALs? I've got over $10,000.00 invested here and can't even take the stuff out of the box. I don't see how anyone can be purchasing these licenses as one of the only 2 companies in the US that sells them don't know what it is. I'm too fed up to even call the other one yet. How can they make this such a debacle? SAY IT!!! The license is $.xx. Call here. Pay here. Sign here. -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
I neglected to mention that obviously it wouldn't solve your commercial problems but it might save you money in the long term. Sorry I cannot say more. - LEGAL DISCLAIMER -- This message and any attachments to it is intended only for the individual or company to which it is addressed and may contain information which is privileged, confidential or prohibited from disclosure or unauthorised use. If the recipient of this transmission is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering such materials to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this e-mail message or its attachments other than by its intended recipient is strictly prohibited by the sender. If you have received it in error, please return it to the sender and destroy the message and/or copies in your possession. The views or opinions expressed in this email are that of the individual and not necessarily those of A.B.C (Systems and Development) Limited or any of it's subsidiaries. -Original Message- From: Martin Sutton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 02 March 2001 15:21 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end Go for MSDN, you get all Microsoft software for in house use. I think its $15k / year. Thats worth a look because you get all versions and all updates of all their software. I think thats right, my company is on MSDN and we get everything - LEGAL DISCLAIMER -- This message and any attachments to it is intended only for the individual or company to which it is addressed and may contain information which is privileged, confidential or prohibited from disclosure or unauthorised use. If the recipient of this transmission is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering such materials to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this e-mail message or its attachments other than by its intended recipient is strictly prohibited by the sender. If you have received it in error, please return it to the sender and destroy the message and/or copies in your possession. The views or opinions expressed in this email are that of the individual and not necessarily those of A.B.C (Systems and Development) Limited or any of it's subsidiaries. -Original Message- From: Bud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 02 March 2001 15:00 To: CF-Talk Subject: M$ licensing has me at wits end AAARRRGGGHH! OK, so. I get my copy of SQL Server 2000 with the Processor license thinking that's all I'm going to need. Open the box, read the license. WHOOPS! No commercial hosting allowed under this license. Seems it's only good for your own personal website. Great deal for 4,200.00. So, now I've spent the past 3 days on and off the phone with Microsoft. First I need an Application Service provider license. "Get it from Dell or CDW" they say. Call Dell and CDW. "What's an Application Service Provider license?" is the response from both of them. Back on the phone with Microsoft. "Oh. you were misled. You need the Microsoft Commercial Internet Services license. To be licensed as an ASP, you have to have at least 2 people MCSE certified that work for the company". Send me to their web page. Read that I need a MCSI "Server" license and MCSI "Domain Access license" for every domain using SQL. There are only 2 companies in the US that sell MCIS licenses. Call the first one. "What's a Microsoft Commercial Internet Services license? What's a Domain Access license? We'll try and find out what you're talking about and call you back.". Is anyone out there hosting commercial web sites and using SQL Server as the database? How are you licensed? If as a MCSI, where did you get it? Are you just pretending ignorant and using the processor license or CALs? I've got over $10,000.00 invested here and can't even take the stuff out of the box. I don't see how anyone can be purchasing these licenses as one of the only 2 companies in the US that sells them don't know what it is. I'm too fed up to even call the other one yet. How can they make this such a debacle? SAY IT!!! The license is $.xx. Call here. Pay here. Sign here. -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 ~~ Structure your
RE: M$ licensing has me at wits end
Go for MSDN, you get all Microsoft software for in house use. I think its $15k / year. Thats worth a look because you get all versions and all updates of all their software. I think thats right, my company is on MSDN and we get everything - LEGAL DISCLAIMER -- This message and any attachments to it is intended only for the individual or company to which it is addressed and may contain information which is privileged, confidential or prohibited from disclosure or unauthorised use. If the recipient of this transmission is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering such materials to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this e-mail message or its attachments other than by its intended recipient is strictly prohibited by the sender. If you have received it in error, please return it to the sender and destroy the message and/or copies in your possession. The views or opinions expressed in this email are that of the individual and not necessarily those of A.B.C (Systems and Development) Limited or any of it's subsidiaries. -Original Message- From: Bud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 02 March 2001 15:00 To: CF-Talk Subject: M$ licensing has me at wits end AAARRRGGGHH! OK, so. I get my copy of SQL Server 2000 with the Processor license thinking that's all I'm going to need. Open the box, read the license. WHOOPS! No commercial hosting allowed under this license. Seems it's only good for your own personal website. Great deal for 4,200.00. So, now I've spent the past 3 days on and off the phone with Microsoft. First I need an Application Service provider license. "Get it from Dell or CDW" they say. Call Dell and CDW. "What's an Application Service Provider license?" is the response from both of them. Back on the phone with Microsoft. "Oh. you were misled. You need the Microsoft Commercial Internet Services license. To be licensed as an ASP, you have to have at least 2 people MCSE certified that work for the company". Send me to their web page. Read that I need a MCSI "Server" license and MCSI "Domain Access license" for every domain using SQL. There are only 2 companies in the US that sell MCIS licenses. Call the first one. "What's a Microsoft Commercial Internet Services license? What's a Domain Access license? We'll try and find out what you're talking about and call you back.". Is anyone out there hosting commercial web sites and using SQL Server as the database? How are you licensed? If as a MCSI, where did you get it? Are you just pretending ignorant and using the processor license or CALs? I've got over $10,000.00 invested here and can't even take the stuff out of the box. I don't see how anyone can be purchasing these licenses as one of the only 2 companies in the US that sells them don't know what it is. I'm too fed up to even call the other one yet. How can they make this such a debacle? SAY IT!!! The license is $.xx. Call here. Pay here. Sign here. -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
M$ licensing has me at wits end
AAARRRGGGHH! OK, so. I get my copy of SQL Server 2000 with the Processor license thinking that's all I'm going to need. Open the box, read the license. WHOOPS! No commercial hosting allowed under this license. Seems it's only good for your own personal website. Great deal for 4,200.00. So, now I've spent the past 3 days on and off the phone with Microsoft. First I need an Application Service provider license. "Get it from Dell or CDW" they say. Call Dell and CDW. "What's an Application Service Provider license?" is the response from both of them. Back on the phone with Microsoft. "Oh. you were misled. You need the Microsoft Commercial Internet Services license. To be licensed as an ASP, you have to have at least 2 people MCSE certified that work for the company". Send me to their web page. Read that I need a MCSI "Server" license and MCSI "Domain Access license" for every domain using SQL. There are only 2 companies in the US that sell MCIS licenses. Call the first one. "What's a Microsoft Commercial Internet Services license? What's a Domain Access license? We'll try and find out what you're talking about and call you back.". Is anyone out there hosting commercial web sites and using SQL Server as the database? How are you licensed? If as a MCSI, where did you get it? Are you just pretending ignorant and using the processor license or CALs? I've got over $10,000.00 invested here and can't even take the stuff out of the box. I don't see how anyone can be purchasing these licenses as one of the only 2 companies in the US that sells them don't know what it is. I'm too fed up to even call the other one yet. How can they make this such a debacle? SAY IT!!! The license is $.xx. Call here. Pay here. Sign here. -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
