Re: Allaire Certification Program
From: "Mike Sheldon" [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would look for someone who *refused* to take it. you would likely end up like an acquaintence, who hired someone who claimed to 'know' coldfusion. So far, this person has had to be taught sql, html, coldfusion, program design, database design, debugging, ... and problems continue. Apparently the new employee's idea of 'knowing' coldfusion was that he read the word on the internet once... -- Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem. Larry W. Virden mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/ Unless explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -- -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Allaire Certification Program
Hardly. I can spot fakers in a flat second, and I ALWAYS ask for samples of code (and make them explain why they did it that way). I just don't like working with sheep. Michael J. Sheldon Internet Applications Developer Phone: 480.699.1084 http://www.desertraven.com/ PGP Key Available on Request -Original Message- From: Larry W. Virden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 06:44 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Allaire Certification Program From: "Mike Sheldon" [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would look for someone who *refused* to take it. you would likely end up like an acquaintence, who hired someone who claimed to 'know' coldfusion. So far, this person has had to be taught sql, html, coldfusion, program design, database design, debugging, ... and problems continue. Apparently the new employee's idea of 'knowing' coldfusion was that he read the word on the internet once... -- Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem. Larry W. Virden mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/ Unless explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -- -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Allaire Certification Program
I second that. Always ask to see some code. Even if they have to sanitize it to keep to current NDA agreements. We've had candidates who seemed to be perfection on paper and even held their own during the interview, but their code told the truth. Sharon At 08:39 AM 7/10/2000 -0700, Mike Sheldon wrote: Hardly. I can spot fakers in a flat second, and I ALWAYS ask for samples of code (and make them explain why they did it that way). I just don't like working with sheep. Michael J. Sheldon Internet Applications Developer Phone: 480.699.1084 http://www.desertraven.com/ PGP Key Available on Request -Original Message- From: Larry W. Virden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 06:44 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Allaire Certification Program From: "Mike Sheldon" [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would look for someone who *refused* to take it. you would likely end up like an acquaintence, who hired someone who claimed to 'know' coldfusion. So far, this person has had to be taught sql, html, coldfusion, program design, database design, debugging, ... and problems continue. Apparently the new employee's idea of 'knowing' coldfusion was that he read the word on the internet once... -- Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem. Larry W. Virden mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/ Unless explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -- -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. --- --- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Allaire Certification Program
Having been in Data Processing for over 23 years, I have found that certification programs are basically a management CYA. Generally if the project manager (or other person doing the hiring) was not technical he would use a certification as his first level (and probably only) level of screening. If the person did not work out, you could not blame the manager ... after all the person was "Certified". Just a MS certification is becoming a "screening tool" and also a easy revenue generator for MS at 100 dollars a pop, so Has Allaire followed suit. For contract work I guess I will just have to buckle down and Memorize some tags. Hank West eDataShare [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Allaire Certification Program
I would agree with the knowledge of said functions, if you were to really call yourself a proffesional then you would no the commands anyway. If I was to look up for functions everytime I programmed then I would not be very productive, think of a Computer Games programmer (of which I was) the game would take 10 times longer to develop because the programmer would have to look up how to calculate velocitys and matrices etc., the list is endless and CF should be no different. The ability to recognise a function and its purpose is what makes a good programmer and from an employment point of view I would hire someone with this certificate over someone who doesn't:-) -Original Message- From: Sean Renet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, 8 July 2000 11:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Allaire Certification Program I took the beta, and its a weird test. It's an hour and a half test that is all multiple choice. Allaire tells me its a test in progress. My issue with the test is that it does not explore your ability to code or cluster, but rather your ability to memorize coldfusion function and tag attributes. The ironic thing is that allaire builds an incredible crutch called cf studio, so that memorization of cf tag attributes isn't necessary. I am not sure you can qualify someone as a good programmer in an hour an a half of multiple choice. So if this is used as a yardstick for employment, lets say you have two candidates: 1) incredible programmer that hasn't memorized the cf tag attributes and relies on studio to tell them what they are, so they are not allaire certified. 2) an average programmer that is allaire certified. Who do you choose? How do you know which is the better programmer? The danger of this test is that corporations would blindly use this as a criteria for hiring purposes. Corporations in all their wisdom would suppose that if allaire created the language, then thier test should be the last word in a programmer's ability. The fact is, that this test does not tell you anything about the applicants actual ability but rather thier retention skills. With this sort of wisdom in mind, I suggest anyone looking for employment memorize the cf functions and tags and then run out and get certified. I am pretty pro allaire, however I am amazed they rushed this test out without considering what employers need in a test. That being, a test of application not retention. This test affects our entire community. Lets say a lot of average to below average skilled programmers are certified for thier retention ability and not their application skill; which incidently is currently the case. These folks are hired by corporations building IT departments that have chosen coldfusion as thier solution. When these folks fail to logically scope and ship a product that meets the requests of the corporation, the corporation is going to think they have chosen the wrong solution not the wrong programmers. After all, thier team is allaire certified. So they think to themselves, "If these are the best cf programmers (ie., they are certified) and they cannot accomplish this task, we must need a new solution. What was that Broadvision thing you mentioned?" I hire a lot of freelance developers, and for me personally this test tells me that someone has really good retention ability. That is a plus. However, I would only use it as partial criteria and base my hiring practices more on interview, example code, and reference. Hal Helms wrote an interesting article about this in CFDJ last month or so regarding such. I think employers should read this article and develop internal yardsticks for thier needs. Hopefully, as this test develops it will be weighed more on coding problems, cluster scenerios and ect. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Allaire Certification Program
if you were to really call yourself a proffesional then you would no the commands anyway And I would disagree heavily. I program actively* in six languages, I always keep a function reference close at hand so I can check function arguments and parameters. There's no way I can memorize every parameter of every function in all of those languages. * active languages: CF, PHP, Java, C++, PERL, Transact-SQL ** "inactive" languages: VB, x86 Assembler, Javascript, C You going to try to tell me that I'm not a professional? It appears that Allaire has gone the Microsoft route with the certification. In other words, the primary beneficiary is Allaire, not the developer community. from an employment point of view I would hire someone with this certificate over someone who doesn't I would look for someone who *refused* to take it. Michael J. Sheldon Internet Applications Developer Phone: 480.699.1084 http://www.desertraven.com/ PGP Key Available on Request -Original Message- From: Andrew Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 08:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Allaire Certification Program I would agree with the knowledge of said functions, if you were to really call yourself a proffesional then you would no the commands anyway. If I was to look up for functions everytime I programmed then I would not be very productive, think of a Computer Games programmer (of which I was) the game would take 10 times longer to develop because the programmer would have to look up how to calculate velocitys and matrices etc., the list is endless and CF should be no different. The ability to recognise a function and its purpose is what makes a good programmer and from an employment point of view I would hire someone with this certificate over someone who doesn't:-) -Original Message- From: Sean Renet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, 8 July 2000 11:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Allaire Certification Program I took the beta, and its a weird test. It's an hour and a half test that is all multiple choice. Allaire tells me its a test in progress. My issue with the test is that it does not explore your ability to code or cluster, but rather your ability to memorize coldfusion function and tag attributes. The ironic thing is that allaire builds an incredible crutch called cf studio, so that memorization of cf tag attributes isn't necessary. I am not sure you can qualify someone as a good programmer in an hour an a half of multiple choice. So if this is used as a yardstick for employment, lets say you have two candidates: 1) incredible programmer that hasn't memorized the cf tag attributes and relies on studio to tell them what they are, so they are not allaire certified. 2) an average programmer that is allaire certified. Who do you choose? How do you know which is the better programmer? The danger of this test is that corporations would blindly use this as a criteria for hiring purposes. Corporations in all their wisdom would suppose that if allaire created the language, then thier test should be the last word in a programmer's ability. The fact is, that this test does not tell you anything about the applicants actual ability but rather thier retention skills. With this sort of wisdom in mind, I suggest anyone looking for employment memorize the cf functions and tags and then run out and get certified. I am pretty pro allaire, however I am amazed they rushed this test out without considering what employers need in a test. That being, a test of application not retention. This test affects our entire community. Lets say a lot of average to below average skilled programmers are certified for thier retention ability and not their application skill; which incidently is currently the case. These folks are hired by corporations building IT departments that have chosen coldfusion as thier solution. When these folks fail to logically scope and ship a product that meets the requests of the corporation, the corporation is going to think they have chosen the wrong solution not the wrong programmers. After all, thier team is allaire certified. So they think to themselves, "If these are the best cf programmers (ie., they are certified) and they cannot accomplish this task, we must need a new solution. What was that Broadvision thing you mentioned?" I hire a lot of freelance developers, and for me personally this test tells me that someone has really good retention ability. That is a plus. However, I would only use it as partial criteria and base my hiring practices more on interview, example code, and reference. Hal Helms wrote an interesting article about this in CFDJ last month or so regarding such. I think employers should read this article and develop internal yardsticks for thier needs. Hopefully, as this test develops it will be weighed more on coding problems, clust
RE: Allaire Certification Program
Andrew, Yeah, you can remember the functions... but can you SPELL the functions? ;) Ron -Original Message- From: Andrew Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 10:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Allaire Certification Program I would agree with the knowledge of said functions, if you were to really call yourself a proffesional then you would no the commands anyway. If I was to look up for functions everytime I programmed then I would not be very productive, think of a Computer Games programmer (of which I was) the game would take 10 times longer to develop because the programmer would have to look up how to calculate velocitys and matrices etc., the list is endless and CF should be no different. The ability to recognise a function and its purpose is what makes a good programmer and from an employment point of view I would hire someone with this certificate over someone who doesn't:-) -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Allaire Certification Program
if you were to really call yourself a proffesional then you would no the commands anyway And I would disagree heavily. I program actively* in six languages, I always keep a function reference close at hand so I can check function arguments and parameters. There's no way I can memorize every parameter of every function in all of those languages. I have to agree with Mike here. I work primarily with CF (mostly 4.01 but a little bit of version 3 code as well), Javascript, and a little bit of Java. Between those three languages (including multiple versions and/or platforms of each) I have a hard time memorizing the exact paramter lists and which functions are available for each. I hardly think that needing to *quickly* refer to a reference for the parameter definitions of an infrequently used function or tag should cause someone to fail the certification test. I've been writing CF for 2 years, and I've done some decently impressive things. In spite of that I couldn't recite, from memory, the parameters for CFTREE, CFUPDATE, CFFTP, CFPOP, etc if my life depended on it. I know they EXIST, I know WHAT they do, and I know WHERE to find their documentation if I need it. I just don't have them memorized. Does this mean that I'm a poor programmer? I like to think that it doesn't g. IMHO, the value of a certification is based directly on how well the exam tests an applicant's ability to function in a typical, real life situation. I don't write code locked in a hot room, with no references, and a stopwatch ticking, so why should I be tested that way? I took a number of tests in both high school and college that were structured to allow us students to use the class text and notes during the exam. The idea was that if a student didn't already know how to do a problem, having the book there wouldn't really help that much given the time constraints and question design. However, a student that knew the proper approach to use to solve the question would be able to quickly find needed information (formulas, terms, etc) that they needed. It seems to me that ANY programming language certification exam should be somewhat similar. Seth Petry-Johnson Argo Enterprise and Associates -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Allaire Certification Program
Can we go offline with this. Do not need the emails. Obiously you have each others email addresses. Stop programming and go have some drinks. -Original Message- From: Seth Petry-Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 3:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Allaire Certification Program if you were to really call yourself a proffesional then you would no the commands anyway And I would disagree heavily. I program actively* in six languages, I always keep a function reference close at hand so I can check function arguments and parameters. There's no way I can memorize every parameter of every function in all of those languages. I have to agree with Mike here. I work primarily with CF (mostly 4.01 but a little bit of version 3 code as well), Javascript, and a little bit of Java. Between those three languages (including multiple versions and/or platforms of each) I have a hard time memorizing the exact paramter lists and which functions are available for each. I hardly think that needing to *quickly* refer to a reference for the parameter definitions of an infrequently used function or tag should cause someone to fail the certification test. I've been writing CF for 2 years, and I've done some decently impressive things. In spite of that I couldn't recite, from memory, the parameters for CFTREE, CFUPDATE, CFFTP, CFPOP, etc if my life depended on it. I know they EXIST, I know WHAT they do, and I know WHERE to find their documentation if I need it. I just don't have them memorized. Does this mean that I'm a poor programmer? I like to think that it doesn't g. IMHO, the value of a certification is based directly on how well the exam tests an applicant's ability to function in a typical, real life situation. I don't write code locked in a hot room, with no references, and a stopwatch ticking, so why should I be tested that way? I took a number of tests in both high school and college that were structured to allow us students to use the class text and notes during the exam. The idea was that if a student didn't already know how to do a problem, having the book there wouldn't really help that much given the time constraints and question design. However, a student that knew the proper approach to use to solve the question would be able to quickly find needed information (formulas, terms, etc) that they needed. It seems to me that ANY programming language certification exam should be somewhat similar. Seth Petry-Johnson Argo Enterprise and Associates -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Allaire Certification Program
The ability to recognise a function and its purpose is what makes a good programmer This ideal is what is dangerous about the test. Retention of functions and attributes doesn't make a good programmer, application does. I know the 10 commandments, but I wouldn't consider myself religious. Oh an Jordan, this test affects our whole community, and I have spoken with atleast 20 CFer's that have no idea any of this is going on. So if you want a "gimme some code" board I suggest you create your own. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Allaire Certification Program
Oh an Sean, You are really great. I would love working with someone like you. Please expand on the "gimme some code" board. This CF-Talk not CF-Ego/Argue. -Original Message- From: Sean Renet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 4:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Allaire Certification Program The ability to recognise a function and its purpose is what makes a good programmer This ideal is what is dangerous about the test. Retention of functions and attributes doesn't make a good programmer, application does. I know the 10 commandments, but I wouldn't consider myself religious. Oh an Jordan, this test affects our whole community, and I have spoken with atleast 20 CFer's that have no idea any of this is going on. So if you want a "gimme some code" board I suggest you create your own. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Allaire Certification Program
If you don't like it, unsubscribe. It's a valid topic for the list. Maybe you should drink less and code more? Michael J. Sheldon Internet Applications Developer Phone: 480.699.1084 http://www.desertraven.com/ PGP Key Available on Request -Original Message- From: Jordan McDonald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 14:37 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Allaire Certification Program Can we go offline with this. Do not need the emails. Obiously you have each others email addresses. Stop programming and go have some drinks. -Original Message- From: Seth Petry-Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 3:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Allaire Certification Program if you were to really call yourself a proffesional then you would no the commands anyway And I would disagree heavily. I program actively* in six languages, I always keep a function reference close at hand so I can check function arguments and parameters. There's no way I can memorize every parameter of every function in all of those languages. I have to agree with Mike here. I work primarily with CF (mostly 4.01 but a little bit of version 3 code as well), Javascript, and a little bit of Java. Between those three languages (including multiple versions and/or platforms of each) I have a hard time memorizing the exact paramter lists and which functions are available for each. I hardly think that needing to *quickly* refer to a reference for the parameter definitions of an infrequently used function or tag should cause someone to fail the certification test. I've been writing CF for 2 years, and I've done some decently impressive things. In spite of that I couldn't recite, from memory, the parameters for CFTREE, CFUPDATE, CFFTP, CFPOP, etc if my life depended on it. I know they EXIST, I know WHAT they do, and I know WHERE to find their documentation if I need it. I just don't have them memorized. Does this mean that I'm a poor programmer? I like to think that it doesn't g. IMHO, the value of a certification is based directly on how well the exam tests an applicant's ability to function in a typical, real life situation. I don't write code locked in a hot room, with no references, and a stopwatch ticking, so why should I be tested that way? I took a number of tests in both high school and college that were structured to allow us students to use the class text and notes during the exam. The idea was that if a student didn't already know how to do a problem, having the book there wouldn't really help that much given the time constraints and question design. However, a student that knew the proper approach to use to solve the question would be able to quickly find needed information (formulas, terms, etc) that they needed. It seems to me that ANY programming language certification exam should be somewhat similar. Seth Petry-Johnson Argo Enterprise and Associates -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Allaire Certification Program
Jordan, How does this thread have anything to do with ego or argument? CF-Talk is a DISCUSSION BOARD. This thread is infact a discussion about something critical to our community. Your reply to this thread was non-responsive. If all you expect from this board is for someone to answer your questions about code, then I suggest you create a board that adhears to such OR use the DELETE BUTTON and do not read the emails that are of no concern to you. I don't remember a post elevating you to board monitor. Oddly enough you are still reading this thread. - Original Message - From: "Jordan McDonald" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 3:51 PM Subject: RE: Allaire Certification Program Oh an Sean, You are really great. I would love working with someone like you. Please expand on the "gimme some code" board. This CF-Talk not CF-Ego/Argue. -Original Message- From: Sean Renet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 4:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Allaire Certification Program The ability to recognise a function and its purpose is what makes a good programmer This ideal is what is dangerous about the test. Retention of functions and attributes doesn't make a good programmer, application does. I know the 10 commandments, but I wouldn't consider myself religious. Oh an Jordan, this test affects our whole community, and I have spoken with atleast 20 CFer's that have no idea any of this is going on. So if you want a "gimme some code" board I suggest you create your own. -- -- -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Allaire Certification Program
I have done it and the questions are straightforward with a mix of html, sql, and cfml questions. If you go to http://www.allaire.com/certification you can get a rough idea of what the exam will cover and it is pretty acurate. Steve DeWitt -Original Message- From: Reynolds, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 2:33 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Allaire Certification Program Has anybody done this yet? If so, what were the questions like? I'm considering doing this in the next couple of months (either in the UK, or most likely in the US). I think it would add real value to my CV seeing as I work as a consultant. Adam ** This email and any attachments are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. They may contain material protected by legal professional or other privilege. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not disclose, copy, distribute or retain this email or its attachments. Although this email and its attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that they are virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the company for any loss or damage arising from receipt or use thereof. ** -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Allaire Certification Program
What's the cost for the test? -Original Message- From: Steve DeWitt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 8:52 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: Allaire Certification Program I have done it and the questions are straightforward with a mix of html, sql, and cfml questions. If you go to http://www.allaire.com/certification you can get a rough idea of what the exam will cover and it is pretty acurate. Steve DeWitt -Original Message- From: Reynolds, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 2:33 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Allaire Certification Program Has anybody done this yet? If so, what were the questions like? I'm considering doing this in the next couple of months (either in the UK, or most likely in the US). I think it would add real value to my CV seeing as I work as a consultant. Adam ** This email and any attachments are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. They may contain material protected by legal professional or other privilege. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not disclose, copy, distribute or retain this email or its attachments. Although this email and its attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that they are virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the company for any loss or damage arising from receipt or use thereof. ** -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Allaire Certification Program
Steve "CCFD" DeWitt -Original Message- From: Steve DeWitt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 8:52 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: Allaire Certification Program I have done it and the questions are straightforward with a mix of html, sql, and cfml questions. If you go to http://www.allaire.com/certification you can get a rough idea of what the exam will cover and it is pretty acurate. Steve DeWitt -Original Message- From: Reynolds, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 2:33 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Allaire Certification Program Has anybody done this yet? If so, what were the questions like? I'm considering doing this in the next couple of months (either in the UK, or most likely in the US). I think it would add real value to my CV seeing as I work as a consultant. Adam ** This email and any attachments are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. They may contain material protected by legal professional or other privilege. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not disclose, copy, distribute or retain this email or its attachments. Although this email and its attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that they are virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the company for any loss or damage arising from receipt or use thereof. ** -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Allaire Certification Program
I took the beta, and its a weird test. It's an hour and a half test that is all multiple choice. Allaire tells me its a test in progress. My issue with the test is that it does not explore your ability to code or cluster, but rather your ability to memorize coldfusion function and tag attributes. The ironic thing is that allaire builds an incredible crutch called cf studio, so that memorization of cf tag attributes isn't necessary. I am not sure you can qualify someone as a good programmer in an hour an a half of multiple choice. So if this is used as a yardstick for employment, lets say you have two candidates: 1) incredible programmer that hasn't memorized the cf tag attributes and relies on studio to tell them what they are, so they are not allaire certified. 2) an average programmer that is allaire certified. Who do you choose? How do you know which is the better programmer? The danger of this test is that corporations would blindly use this as a criteria for hiring purposes. Corporations in all their wisdom would suppose that if allaire created the language, then thier test should be the last word in a programmer's ability. The fact is, that this test does not tell you anything about the applicants actual ability but rather thier retention skills. With this sort of wisdom in mind, I suggest anyone looking for employment memorize the cf functions and tags and then run out and get certified. I am pretty pro allaire, however I am amazed they rushed this test out without considering what employers need in a test. That being, a test of application not retention. This test affects our entire community. Lets say a lot of average to below average skilled programmers are certified for thier retention ability and not their application skill; which incidently is currently the case. These folks are hired by corporations building IT departments that have chosen coldfusion as thier solution. When these folks fail to logically scope and ship a product that meets the requests of the corporation, the corporation is going to think they have chosen the wrong solution not the wrong programmers. After all, thier team is allaire certified. So they think to themselves, "If these are the best cf programmers (ie., they are certified) and they cannot accomplish this task, we must need a new solution. What was that Broadvision thing you mentioned?" I hire a lot of freelance developers, and for me personally this test tells me that someone has really good retention ability. That is a plus. However, I would only use it as partial criteria and base my hiring practices more on interview, example code, and reference. Hal Helms wrote an interesting article about this in CFDJ last month or so regarding such. I think employers should read this article and develop internal yardsticks for thier needs. Hopefully, as this test develops it will be weighed more on coding problems, cluster scenerios and ect. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
