RE: Is 4.5.1 Solid
In 001801bfa4ac$5acdf340$[EMAIL PROTECTED], Dave Watts ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) in a fit of unbridled passion, wrote: If this AOL/CF 4.5 problem is truly a problem between CF 4.5 and AOL and Allaire has admitted it, please post a URL so that I may eat my words. If I'm wrong, I'm definitely curious as to the technical details on this. I believe the cause of the problem might be with the use of the Page-Completion-Status header that CF 4.5 added to page output. CF 4.5 inserted this header - sometimes several times - at the bottom of each response header returned by certain web servers. Here's an example: [snip] Okay, did I end up with pie on my face with that one or what. I formally retract my earlier statements with my sincere apologies. (Moral of this story: Don't argue with someone unless you're not only VERY SURE but very very very very very VERY sure you're right...) :-) -R -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Is 4.5.1 Solid
It broke the CFX_Doc2HTML tag we needed for a clients site so I had to go back to 4.01 on our production server. Real pain! -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 13 April 2000 4:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Is 4.5.1 Solid If this AOL/CF 4.5 problem is truly a problem between CF 4.5 and AOL and Allaire has admitted it, please post a URL so that I may eat my words. If I'm wrong, I'm definitely curious as to the technical details on this. I believe the cause of the problem might be with the use of the Page-Completion-Status header that CF 4.5 added to page output. CF 4.5 inserted this header - sometimes several times - at the bottom of each response header returned by certain web servers. Here's an example: hdrPage-Completion-Status: Normal hdrPage-Completion-Status: Normal hdrPage-Completion-Status: Normal I noticed that, from certain web servers and using certain browsers together, this occasionally broke the browser's ability to display the page. I think it might have to do with the order of the response headers, or perhaps with an invalid character sequence separating those headers. Now, if this is the case, it's not technically Allaire's fault, since they're abiding with the letter of the law as far as returning headers. However, it would have been nice if that had been tested more in the real world. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Is 4.5.1 Solid
Rueben- I won't touch the "AOL'ers are stupid" stuff, but I will make comment on your statement that "AOL is just an ISP like any other". I beleive this to be very much false. AOL does not act like a traditional ISP where they are a simple gateway to the internet, without filtering and/or controlling the flow of data from your machine to the internet. My primary complaint with AOL (aside from their horrible misleading interface) is the fact that at any time during your connection to the internet (assuming you are dialing into aol, and not using a broadband or other type of tcp/ip connection) your computer's IP address can and will change completely. This makes for state management on the internet very complicated as AOL users will frequently lose their shopping carts or other state information, through no fault of the developer. Another rather annoying problem with AOL is their lack of support for standard internet technologies and protocols. For example: Instead of allowing your browser (within AOL) to make a request to a site and receive the data back as EVERY OTHER USER ON THE PLANET, AOL proxies the request and makes it from their servers, transferring the data back down to you. Why? Well, it makes great USER TREND DATA! They'll sell that data off to other vendors for extra profit. I.E you are paying AOL for their services, and they are using you to collect information about your browsing habits. By proxying web requests, they're able to build very specific trends by indexing the contents of the pages you are receiving, etc. etc. Big brother is watching. ;-) -Original Message- From: Reuben King [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 5:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid WBB, Your trashing of AOL rather bothers me. AOL is just an ISP like any other and if your application breaks when someone from AOL attempts to use it, then I would suggest the problem lies flatly on your end for your failure to support even the most basic of cross-browser compatibilities. Furthermore, your insinuation that AOL'ers are all stupid, silly, ignorant, and what-not is way off base. AOL has its share of newbies, but lots of professionals use it too. AOL has millions of users. This is quite a large target customer base. I suggest you show them a bit more respect. Specific notes on your post follow: In 036c01bfa3f1$e3fcbae0$[EMAIL PROTECTED], WBB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) in a fit of unbridled passion, wrote: [snip] OR AOL fixed the problem as we were installing 4.51 ;) CFMAIL is an SMTP interface for CF on the server side. How does it have anything to do whatsoever with AOL? accommodates the problems on AOL's end. Do you honestly want Allaire to get accounts with every major ISP so they can check to see if the ISP's stupid procedures mess up the sites? I used to work at a hosting company and the Of course not...but I would think that they would test it on the LARGEST modem community in the world...duh! Why? CF is a server-extension and has nothing to do with browsers or ISP's. focus was on video hosting. Every time we had a broadcast, we would get inundated with tech support calls from AOL users asking us why our site was broken. You can't imagine how many times I had to explain to people exactly why they needed to get a real ISP. AOL uses cached proxy servers and it is bad bad bad. I also do tech support and know just how lame AOL users can be and have used that same explaination as you did ;), however, that doesn't cover the fact that submit buttons or graphics buttons or verity searches wouldn't work using an AOL account until we upgraded to 4.51 (they worked fine with 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.1, 4.0 and 4.1) from 4.5 Sounds to me like a problem with your developer's skillset or lack thereof. The really funny calls were the AOL users who said "What do you mean you don't do tech support for AOL? You're the Internet, right?" I understand...we have several hundred customers that use our lines to connect to their AOL accounts and it's tough to explain to them why their AOL mail doesn't work ;) AOL works fine over TCP/IP. -- Reuben King mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Web Consultant Stonebridge Technologies http://www.sbti.com/ Phone: (512) 502-3332 -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Is 4.5.1 Solid (CF4.5 Is Brand New Code)
I just want to point out something that I think is important to note. CF4.5 is a basically a re-write from scratch. Previous version of CF that worked on Solaris relied on a third-party solution to emulate NT under Solaris. The reason they used the Bristol solution, was so they could port to Solaris quickly. All of the code up until CF4.5 was very NT-centric, this caused a lot of problems with Solaris-as well, it didn't make the code very portable either. In order to improve efficiency, as well as to develop for more platforms, they've rewritten the majority of the code in CF4.5 for cross platform compatibility. This is the reason there may be some new issues on the Solaris platform that weren't there before. However, I think most Solaris users would probably tell you that the new code is a huge improvement over the old code. In essence CF4.5 is a "first generation release"-there is a lot of first generation code in this build. I just thought this was worth mentioning for those reading this thread. As it is important to note that many aspects of the internal workings of ColdFusion have changed-and changed for the better. -Dan -Original Message- From: WBB [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 8:25 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid If this was CF's first release it wouldn't bother me so much...however, Allaire had it right in versions 1.5-4.01 and in 4.51...they just flat screwed up in 4.5 and I'm not going to be an apologist for them. There are NO issues of cross-platform programming. If so then why did it work fine in every release UNTIL and AFTER 4.5? -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
Paul: You have to configure an RDS or FTP server for your localhost (username, password, etc), like you would for a remote server. Then, to see your databases, select the tab for database. Then select from the drop-down at the top which server databases you wish to see. Yvette Ingram ColdFusion Programmer HWG TA, ColdFusion 4 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 21200397 - Original Message - From: Paul Ihrig [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 10:43 AM Subject: RE: Is 4.5.1 Solid hey all having problems: I cant see any of my databasses on my localhost. uninstalled 4.5 then reinstalled 4.5.1 no luck it is still not working for my LocalHost. But it does work for my remote server. For my local host i get this error. Cold Fusion Studio 4.5.1 The connection to the server cannot be established. But all my apps work on http://127.0.0.1 Should i reinstal the single user ent server 4.5? this is really cruddy. i am on win98 running pws, cf server 4.5, cf studio 4.5.1 should i uninstal studio 4.1? could it be a proxy setting? why does it not think the server is running on my local machine? also, i did not see an update to the Sigle user Ent Server 4.5.1 could thid be the problem??? please help! thanks -paul -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Is 4.5.1 Solid
Yvette: I know that. I am just getting errors left and right. studio dosnt think that the CF server is running on my LocalHost. I can go to the CF admin page to check all my mdb's. I can also run all my database pages from http://127.0.0.1/whatThehEck/ but just no use of the rds for my local host. can get all the right info from our production server. Also cant use any of the wizards. i get a serverAdmin error. should i uninstal everything? this is the 3rd time i have had to go back to 4.1. Seems like every one else in the world is using 4.5.1 fine Thanks -paul -Original Message- From: Yvette Ingram [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 11:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid Paul: You have to configure an RDS or FTP server for your localhost (username, password, etc), like you would for a remote server. Then, to see your databases, select the tab for database. Then select from the drop-down at the top which server databases you wish to see. Yvette Ingram ColdFusion Programmer HWG TA, ColdFusion 4 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 21200397 - Original Message - From: Paul Ihrig [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 10:43 AM Subject: RE: Is 4.5.1 Solid hey all having problems: I cant see any of my databasses on my localhost. uninstalled 4.5 then reinstalled 4.5.1 no luck it is still not working for my LocalHost. But it does work for my remote server. For my local host i get this error. Cold Fusion Studio 4.5.1 The connection to the server cannot be established. But all my apps work on http://127.0.0.1 Should i reinstal the single user ent server 4.5? this is really cruddy. i am on win98 running pws, cf server 4.5, cf studio 4.5.1 should i uninstal studio 4.1? could it be a proxy setting? why does it not think the server is running on my local machine? also, i did not see an update to the Sigle user Ent Server 4.5.1 could thid be the problem??? please help! thanks -paul -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
In 04c501bfa405$ebe4dee0$[EMAIL PROTECTED], WBB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) in a fit of unbridled passion, wrote: No Actually Reuben, unbridled passion is something you've not yet observed from me, yet ;) WBB, Your trashing of AOL rather bothers me. AOL is just an ISP like any Gee, I'm sorry...if I responded to everything that bothered me that I read in news groups I wouldn't have a life. Yeah, hanging around in news groups bashing AOL is much more fulfilling, right? other and if your application breaks when someone from AOL attempts to use it, then I would suggest the problem lies flatly on your end for your failure to support even the most basic of cross-browser compatibilities. I would suggest you ...uhhh...sorry, I can't say that in a public news group...I would suggest you read what I posted. Our sites worked FINE with AOL WITH EVERY release of CF from 1.5 to 4.51 EXCEPT 4.5 So tell me, what the hell does that have to do with cross-capatablility? It's already been mentioned on this list more than once that it was a problem and that Allaire had the remedy. I simply stated that for a MAJOR RELEASE to not be compatible with some 20,000,000 user was crap and I still stand by what I believe. Geesh. HTTP is HTTP. It is a very light protocol and browser software either is or is not HTTP compliant. It is such a light protocol that there is no "95% HTTP compliant". And if you're not HTTP compliant, the whole web won't work for you. CF is an HTTP server extension. It does everything it does internally and simply sends and receives data streams from the HTTP listener. So, pray tell, HOW can your stuff not working on AOL clients have anything to do whatsoever with AOL? If you were smart, you'd try to get to the bottom of the "why's" and quit walking around sounding like an incompetent boob giving further cliche to the "AOL sucks" rant. [rest of nonsense snipped] -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
By the way-- If this AOL/CF 4.5 problem is truly a problem between CF 4.5 and AOL and Allaire has admitted it, please post a URL so that I may eat my words. If I'm wrong, I'm definitely curious as to the technical details on this. -- Reuben King mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Web Consultant Stonebridge Technologies http://www.sbti.com/ Phone: (512) 502-3332 -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
It's a fact, there was a known issue with the combination of WebSite, CF4.5 and AOL. I can't find any documentation on it at the moment, but there was definitely a problem which was reported several times on this and Website-talk lists, and which was confirmed by Allaire and O'Reilly. Regards, -Max At 4/12/2000 11:46 AM -0500, you wrote: By the way-- If this AOL/CF 4.5 problem is truly a problem between CF 4.5 and AOL and Allaire has admitted it, please post a URL so that I may eat my words. If I'm wrong, I'm definitely curious as to the technical details on this. -- Reuben King mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Web Consultant Stonebridge Technologies http://www.sbti.com/ Phone: (512) 502-3332 -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
At 09:02 AM 4/10/00 -0700, you wrote: Hi Dick, We upgraded to 4.51 and it seemed to cure quite a few ills. So far no damage. We had previously installed the hot fixes for CFHTTP and CFMAIL and had switched some CFMAIL calls off to another machine so we didn't have many problems there. It now does allow the 20,000,000 AOL users that couldn't complete our pages do so...seems really strange to me that they would allow such crap to be issued as a release in the first place as an 'upgrade' ;) You can't really mean that. The problem is on AOL's end. CF Server now accommodates the problems on AOL's end. Do you honestly want Allaire to get accounts with every major ISP so they can check to see if the ISP's stupid procedures mess up the sites? I used to work at a hosting company and the focus was on video hosting. Every time we had a broadcast, we would get inundated with tech support calls from AOL users asking us why our site was broken. You can't imagine how many times I had to explain to people exactly why they needed to get a real ISP. AOL uses cached proxy servers and it is bad bad bad. The really funny calls were the AOL users who said "What do you mean you don't do tech support for AOL? You're the Internet, right?" The ISP who hosts many of my client's sites is considering switching to 4.5.1 as the active CF platform. There have been lots of threads re problems with various 4.5 versions... I am especially concerned with: CFHTTP regexps CFMAIL Anyone know of outstanding problems with 4.5.1? Any killer incompatibilities between 4.0 4.5 1? TIA Dick -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
Not only do they use cached proxy servers, but they severely filter content. Wise words: "bad bad bad" =) Scott M. Berry -- College of the Canyons Web Design 661.259.7800 x3630 http://www.coc.cc.ca.us - Original Message - From: "Jennifer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid At 09:02 AM 4/10/00 -0700, you wrote: Hi Dick, We upgraded to 4.51 and it seemed to cure quite a few ills. So far no damage. We had previously installed the hot fixes for CFHTTP and CFMAIL and had switched some CFMAIL calls off to another machine so we didn't have many problems there. It now does allow the 20,000,000 AOL users that couldn't complete our pages do so...seems really strange to me that they would allow such crap to be issued as a release in the first place as an 'upgrade' ;) You can't really mean that. The problem is on AOL's end. CF Server now accommodates the problems on AOL's end. Do you honestly want Allaire to get accounts with every major ISP so they can check to see if the ISP's stupid procedures mess up the sites? I used to work at a hosting company and the focus was on video hosting. Every time we had a broadcast, we would get inundated with tech support calls from AOL users asking us why our site was broken. You can't imagine how many times I had to explain to people exactly why they needed to get a real ISP. AOL uses cached proxy servers and it is bad bad bad. The really funny calls were the AOL users who said "What do you mean you don't do tech support for AOL? You're the Internet, right?" The ISP who hosts many of my client's sites is considering switching to 4.5.1 as the active CF platform. There have been lots of threads re problems with various 4.5 versions... I am especially concerned with: CFHTTP regexps CFMAIL Anyone know of outstanding problems with 4.5.1? Any killer incompatibilities between 4.0 4.5 1? TIA Dick -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. --- --- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Is 4.5.1 Solid
-Original Message- From: Jennifer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 1:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid At 09:02 AM 4/10/00 -0700, you wrote: snip The really funny calls were the AOL users who said "What do you mean you don't do tech support for AOL? You're the Internet, right?" /snip Our users are always asking us to speed up the internet for them. Like we have a speed knob back here. Heh.. If we did, you can bet we'd have it cranked all the way up. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
Hi Jennifer, At 09:02 AM 4/10/00 -0700, you wrote: Hi Dick, We upgraded to 4.51 and it seemed to cure quite a few ills. So far no damage. We had previously installed the hot fixes for CFHTTP and CFMAIL and had switched some CFMAIL calls off to another machine so we didn't have many problems there. It now does allow the 20,000,000 AOL users that couldn't complete our pages do so...seems really strange to me that they would allow such crap to be issued as a release in the first place as an 'upgrade' ;) You can't really mean that. The problem is on AOL's end. CF Server now Oh yes...I really can mean it ;)...and the problem was with CFServer with O'Reilly's Website OR AOL fixed the problem as we were installing 4.51 ;) accommodates the problems on AOL's end. Do you honestly want Allaire to get accounts with every major ISP so they can check to see if the ISP's stupid procedures mess up the sites? I used to work at a hosting company and the Of course not...but I would think that they would test it on the LARGEST modem community in the world...duh! focus was on video hosting. Every time we had a broadcast, we would get inundated with tech support calls from AOL users asking us why our site was broken. You can't imagine how many times I had to explain to people exactly why they needed to get a real ISP. AOL uses cached proxy servers and it is bad bad bad. I also do tech support and know just how lame AOL users can be and have used that same explaination as you did ;), however, that doesn't cover the fact that submit buttons or graphics buttons or verity searches wouldn't work using an AOL account until we upgraded to 4.51 (they worked fine with 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.1, 4.0 and 4.1) from 4.5 The really funny calls were the AOL users who said "What do you mean you don't do tech support for AOL? You're the Internet, right?" I understand...we have several hundred customers that use our lines to connect to their AOL accounts and it's tough to explain to them why their AOL mail doesn't work ;) -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
WBB, Your trashing of AOL rather bothers me. AOL is just an ISP like any other and if your application breaks when someone from AOL attempts to use it, then I would suggest the problem lies flatly on your end for your failure to support even the most basic of cross-browser compatibilities. Furthermore, your insinuation that AOL'ers are all stupid, silly, ignorant, and what-not is way off base. AOL has its share of newbies, but lots of professionals use it too. AOL has millions of users. This is quite a large target customer base. I suggest you show them a bit more respect. Specific notes on your post follow: In 036c01bfa3f1$e3fcbae0$[EMAIL PROTECTED], WBB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) in a fit of unbridled passion, wrote: [snip] OR AOL fixed the problem as we were installing 4.51 ;) CFMAIL is an SMTP interface for CF on the server side. How does it have anything to do whatsoever with AOL? accommodates the problems on AOL's end. Do you honestly want Allaire to get accounts with every major ISP so they can check to see if the ISP's stupid procedures mess up the sites? I used to work at a hosting company and the Of course not...but I would think that they would test it on the LARGEST modem community in the world...duh! Why? CF is a server-extension and has nothing to do with browsers or ISP's. focus was on video hosting. Every time we had a broadcast, we would get inundated with tech support calls from AOL users asking us why our site was broken. You can't imagine how many times I had to explain to people exactly why they needed to get a real ISP. AOL uses cached proxy servers and it is bad bad bad. I also do tech support and know just how lame AOL users can be and have used that same explaination as you did ;), however, that doesn't cover the fact that submit buttons or graphics buttons or verity searches wouldn't work using an AOL account until we upgraded to 4.51 (they worked fine with 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.1, 4.0 and 4.1) from 4.5 Sounds to me like a problem with your developer's skillset or lack thereof. The really funny calls were the AOL users who said "What do you mean you don't do tech support for AOL? You're the Internet, right?" I understand...we have several hundred customers that use our lines to connect to their AOL accounts and it's tough to explain to them why their AOL mail doesn't work ;) AOL works fine over TCP/IP. -- Reuben King mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Web Consultant Stonebridge Technologies http://www.sbti.com/ Phone: (512) 502-3332 -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
At 05:24 PM 4/11/00 -0700, you wrote: At 04:06 PM 4/11/00 -0700, you wrote: Dear Janet (yes, that's a condescending 'Dear')...I've been married to the same woman for 27 years in two more days and I've come to realise that I can't win arguments with the opposite sex once they've mad up their minds. Maybe there's a reason for that. hmmm...yes, I'll just bet there is ;) My point was that it didn't work with 20,000,00 browsers and my unsaid point was that for a major release they might have done a bit better at beta testing. You mean like any other software? All software has problems with the first release. I would like you to show me software that was released with no If this was CF's first release it wouldn't bother me so much...however, Allaire had it right in versions 1.5-4.01 and in 4.51...they just flat screwed up in 4.5 and I'm not going to be an apologist for them. There are NO issues of cross-platform programming. If so then why did it work fine in every release UNTIL and AFTER 4.5? I already told you. I *didn't*. Maybe your issues just appeared but our issues have been there for a long time. I'm not apologizing for anyone because it isn't necessary. It's completely understandable. bugs because that would be a world record. Besides which, you are assuming that all AOL users use the browser. I know several people who use AOL for email alone and have a separate ISP for other web activities. AOL has OK...OK...20 million minus the several you know ;) Oh the logical flaws... problems because it has so many users and their computers can't keep up. That is why the service is so crippled. Oh, and by the way, a new AOL browser was released a couple of months back. Maybe the code worked on the old browser. Basically, you are getting overly angry about a situation that is perfectly natural and understandable. Well, maybe you're right...maybe I'm just an old cranky fart that needs to be put out to pasture...but I did ask my wife this morning if I was tolerable and she replied in the affirmative, of course, that was this mroning...I might have gone down hill since then ;) ...and BTW, it worked WITHIN REASON with ALL AOL browsers from 3.0 on to the latest, just not with CF 4.5 and O'Reilly's Website Pro (which BTW was where CF first got it's major exposure to the world). In the 'old' days if you did beta tests you were expected to test as completely as you could and in exchange for that, the company would issue you one of the first releases for free. The last I looked at Allaire's policy on this (and I might be wrong...if I remember, I was wrong once) I've counted more times than that, today alone. ;) was that the beta was open to it's 'Subcribing customers' (which doesn't count as snot as they already have a year's worth of software coming to them) and that in the later stages they release it to the public at large, of course, with no free issuances. I'm still doing beta testing for some of the companies that supply components for Visual Basic and when one of these components hits the market you can be darn sure that they'll work with nearly every VB compiler out there ;) That's the difference between being a popular company and and excellent company. Oh really? Have you ever tried compiling C in multiple compilers? I dare you. You dare me?...how dare you ;)...and not for several years...gave it up because of what you mention...too damned hard to do...besides, why would I want to program in C when I can much more productive in VB...if I were writing code for hardware then you might have a point but even for that I'll use Forth or Pascal Besides which, CFServer is sort of like a compiler, so by your theory, you should be able to use CFML with CFServer and lo and behold... you have your wish Well lo AND behold...I've been doing that since release 1.5 and my wishes have come true (EXCEPT [here comes the hard part] in version 4.5) However, making things cross-browser compliant is a different story. You're absolutely right...and it doesn't belong in this story because it isn't an issue...all of our sites worked fine with AOL BEFORE AND AFTER CF 4.5 so tell me where cross-platform browser compliancy enters the equation? You can't because it doesn't. There is a standard for VisualBasic and for your code to compile properly in any compiler that compiler (and your code) has to follow the standards. Otherwise, its all accommodating this little quirk and that little quirk. There is a standard for browsers and none of the browsers use it. AOL's browser is amazingly far from the standard and thus, the code won't work on It worked for people using 4.5 and not using O'Reilly's Website Pro...I always thought that the right thing to do was to 'dance with the one that brung ya' it. So your example supports my theory and not your own. AOL should use the standards for browsers instead of blatantly ignoring
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
Oops. Wrong button. But WBB after reading most of your post, your complete lack of logic and your inability to remember basic principles that have been mentioned repeatedly, you have convinced me that it isn't worth it to argue with you. You aren't worth the bandwidth. So congratulations, you win. If you want to call it that. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
On 4/11/00, Jennifer penned: So how do you determine which ISPs are large enough to justify doing this? You say that they should do it for AOL because it's the largest modem community, but what about the second largest and third largest and what about non-modem communities? You are trying to start them down the slippery slope of Allaire having to test on EVERY ISP because what makes that ISP so much less worthwhile than the next best one which just got testing because they were the next best one to some other ISP. It really has nothing at all to do with the ISP. It's the trashy browser they distribute with their software. Personally, whenever I get an e-mail from one of my sites from an aol user that there is a problem, I simply tell them to go download Netscape or IE, install it, then after going online with aol, minimize it and open the REAL browser. The vast majority of aol users that I've encountered have no idea you can do this. Most are very grateful and my problem is solved. I don't even get e-mails from my clients any more when they get complaints. They know what I'm going to say, so they just respond in kind to the person that's complaining to them. In fact, whenever I do a ColdFusion site, my agreement with the client states that I do not warrant the site working on aol's browser, but that I'll fix (or try my darndest) any bugs they encounter from Version 3 forward of NN and IE, Mac and PC. Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
why aren't I resisting sticking my nose into this thread? Urrrgh! You're absolutely right...and it doesn't belong in this story because it isn't an issue...all of our sites worked fine with AOL BEFORE AND AFTER CF 4.5 so tell me where cross-platform browser compliancy enters the equation? You can't because it doesn't. Using the same server you are, Bill, I have to differ with you on the above statement. Lots of stuff didn't work the same for AOL clients before 4.5. So much so that I went to the hassle of filtering for user agent on almost all my pages and providing different scripts for AOL clients. That is a real hassle and I normally use only the subset of html that does work cross-browser. It's just that some things require a bit more than that subset of html. I've found that doing the filtering and providing scripts for odd browsers (like AOL) is the best way. I don't like doing it, but with CF it is fairly easy. (filter and cfinclude). My experience shows me that AOL is very broken (for a fairly large value of 'broken') and that CF is [almost] blameless for any problems. Go the extra distance and do the extra coding. Identifying where and how AOL (or other browsers) is broken does allow for code-arounds -- but CF works just fine once that is done. A lot of people just don't take (or have) the time to robustly code for client differences, just like a lot of people don't filter html tags in textarea inputs. It's worth doing though. Pan 'and lets' not mention NS layers, IE and divs, DHMTL, CSS, etc. etc.' -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Is 4.5.1 Solid
I should try to inflict our QA group here on Allaire as they NEVER LET ME GET AWAY WITH ANYTHING!!! ;-) -Original Message- From: WBB [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 12:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid Hi Dick, We upgraded to 4.51 and it seemed to cure quite a few ills. So far no damage. We had previously installed the hot fixes for CFHTTP and CFMAIL and had switched some CFMAIL calls off to another machine so we didn't have many problems there. It now does allow the 20,000,000 AOL users that couldn't complete our pages do so...seems really strange to me that they would allow such crap to be issued as a release in the first place as an 'upgrade' ;) The ISP who hosts many of my client's sites is considering switching to 4.5.1 as the active CF platform. There have been lots of threads re problems with various 4.5 versions... I am especially concerned with: CFHTTP regexps CFMAIL Anyone know of outstanding problems with 4.5.1? Any killer incompatibilities between 4.0 4.5 1? TIA Dick -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
The ISP who hosts many of my client's sites is considering switching to 4.5.1 as the active CF platform. Are they selling 4.5.1 yet? I thought it was RC2. LM. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
It was released last week and the CF 4.5 password works with it making it an upgrade. I've been using 4.5.1 for a while with much success, but results may vary. :) The ISP who hosts many of my client's sites is considering switching to 4.5.1 as the active CF platform. Are they selling 4.5.1 yet? I thought it was RC2. LM. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: Is 4.5.1 Solid
4.5.1 service release is available from Allaire. - Steve -Original Message- From: Lauchlan Mackinnon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 6:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid The ISP who hosts many of my client's sites is considering switching to 4.5.1 as the active CF platform. Are they selling 4.5.1 yet? I thought it was RC2. LM. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: Is 4.5.1 Solid
- Original Message - From: "Dick Applebaum" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2000 11:24 PM The ISP who hosts many of my client's sites is considering switching to 4.5.1 as the active CF platform. There have been lots of threads re problems with various 4.5 versions... I am especially concerned with: CFHTTP regexps CFMAIL Anyone know of outstanding problems with 4.5.1? Also - is the SQLOLEDB provider datasource *fully* implemented in 4.5.1? Adrian Cooper. -- Archives: http://www.eGroups.com/list/cf-talk To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
