RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
Yes I agree that with the amount of whitespace, and being text will be sent very quickly anyway. But the trade of that must developers don't realise is that most of the known tricks place more work onto the server. For example, a lot of developers started using the enablecfoutputonly option and when used in templates that have only cfml its good and does the trick brilliantly. But from the bad coding that I have seen in the last few years, is that because of this method normal HTML will not be outputed. So in their wisdom they will cfoutput these areas, but not realising that the page will actual process slower because of all the extra work that is being passed to the CF Service. CF doesn't parse HTML and should never be used to do so, this is an Allaire guideline for as long as I have been developing. And I have even had one developer try to dictate a recommeded allaire guidline, and then ignore the most important guidline in the name of impressing. Anyway my 2cents worth:-) regards Andrew Scott Senior Cold Fusion Application Developer -Original Message- From: Jason Lees (National Express) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 31 January 2001 21:34 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us I've got the remove whitespace setting applied on CF server and it doesn't seem to make any difference to the size of the completed template, I still get pages that are filled with whitespace. The only way I found to get rid of some, was to put CF comments in, this reduces the Tabed indents to a single CRLF, but theres a trade off, parsing speed against page size. In testing I've found that it reduces pages by upto 20% (depending on the page layout). Jason Lees National Express Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Philip Arnold - ASP [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 31 January 2001 10:13 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us > The point about CF is that it uses the approach of "Anything written in CF > changes to whitespace when processed" as a default, instead of treating CF > as a programming language and compiling etc (prepare to flame me...). > That's what produces the whitespace. This can of course be > turned off, and > can mean faster page loading. The CFML processor is effectively only a > parser (a fast one, but still a parser) so any other language > that is parsed like this will produce similar output. Just as a point on this - removing white-space only reduces the time that it takes to send the template to the user - using CFSETTING a lot will actually slow the server down (slightly) It's therefore a payoff as to whether you want the pages to be built faster or sent to the user faster - remembering that if you can turn more pages around on the server, then you can serve more visitors - people are willing to wait an extra second or so, but if you've got a busy site, then you've got to weigh up which one you prefer... You get what I mean :-/ Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
I would be very interesting to find out more, what do you mean by badly written? Lets look at a standard CF page compared to ASP, the same code and all it does is produce a list of items on the screen from a loop. In ASP there was no white space, however in CF there was whitespace. Now if you refer to the bad techniques of a developer, then this is a good example. Now if you refer to removing whitespace with the enablecfoutput option, this cause more headaches than its worth. For example, normally (with the option described above) HTML will need to have wrapped around it putting more load onto the CF Service. So is it worth actually doing all these tricks do make the server grunt more to save some bytes. I mean 30k of text is quicker than 30k of binary any day, and the sooner people realise this the better the world will be. regards Andrew Scott Senior Cold Fusion Application Developer -Original Message- From: Paul Johnston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 31 January 2001 20:27 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us > > > > > Thats very interesting, because doing a view source indicates > > > that they are > > > using CF:-) > > > > > > I mean how many other scripting languages generate that much > > whitespace! > > > > > > > Erm... > > > > Loads of languages generate that much whitespace! > > Which ones? Perl (if badly written), PHP (if badly written), ASP (if badly written), CF (if badly written), Mason (if badly written), and everything else under the sun (if it's badly written). CF, however is a bit more interesting... The point about CF is that it uses the approach of "Anything written in CF changes to whitespace when processed" as a default, instead of treating CF as a programming language and compiling etc (prepare to flame me...). That's what produces the whitespace. This can of course be turned off, and can mean faster page loading. The CFML processor is effectively only a parser (a fast one, but still a parser) so any other language that is parsed like this will produce similar output. Paul ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Whitespace (was: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us)
I am building a Multilingual / Multi-locale site. The most effective way I have found to do this is to pregenerate versions of each page for each locale and each language. The involves a simple publishing system that glues various components together and writes out multiple versions of each page, which are included in a wrapper script at run time. As an afterthought, I added a final step where the publishing script replaces ALL multiple whitespaces (tabs, CR, LF, space) with a single space. This means much smaller pages without any overhead ... and bemused looks from people who "view source" on the site! Of course this function can be toggled to enable HTML debugging. The only place I have found this causing probles is with HTML comments inside Javascripts. So I simply added a final step to place a carriage return after each HTML comment in the final output that is written to file. This way I get to use nice formatting and indenting for HTML, SQL, etc, but the final file size is crunched to the bare minimum dropped 100k off larger pages. -Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 9:53 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us Ah... the Evil Whitespace... All CFSETTING does is remove any white space that "CF puts in". If you love indented web pages and use this extensively for your HTML, CF didn't put it in, YOU DID. If, however, a CF tag, once processed, would introduce space, CF will do string processing to remove the space from the page. If you do a lot of this in your page, stripping some of the empty space could make a difference, especially if you have 30+ lines of query statements, CFPARAMs, etc. at the top of every page. If your pages are fairly light on CF but have tons of tabs, CFSETTING won't really help you. So why bother using CFSETTING at all? Well, if you have a ton of CF code throughout your site, especially CFOUTPUTs utilizing queries or CFLOOPs, you are actually creating lots of activity in these parts of your page and white space may occur as a result. Removing this on complex pages or those with a lot of data, may very well shrink your web pages by a large amount. If so, ON THOSE PAGES, you should consider removing white space. Consider also what you'd ask CF to do if you asked it to remove absolutely every instance of tabs, extra spaces, etc. You'd be doing the equivalent of a REPLACE function which is a string operation, arguably the slowest possible operation a language undertakes (if you rule out external accesses to slow systems - CFHTTP for example). This could dramatically impact your CPU. The CF Admin remove whitespace function essentially is the same thing as putting CFSETTING at the beginning of EVERY page in your server. Allaire recommends that you NOT do this because, let's face it, not all of your pages are going to benefit from having the white space removed. So, if you tell CF to remove white space from ALL of your pages, it's doing a lot of extra work for little or no benefit in most cases. So what's the best approach? My suggestion is to run a page, do a Properties check on it to see how big the resulting file is. Save that file to your PC and then do a manual search/replace on all tabs and double spaces (not singles or sentences will be affected). Save the file and see how much smaller it is. If it's 1-2k you might not want to worry about it depending on your server's capacity and how busy your site is. If, however, the difference is several k, you might want to tune this page up because multiplied by thousands of page views, you're wasting megabytes of bandwidth and causing users to wait even longer for the rest of your site to start downloading. That's my two cents... I hope it helps. --Doug ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
Or thought of in a simpler way: The Cold Fusion parser takes the CFML tags OUT of the page, and replaces them with the HTML that the tags generated. The "NEWLINE" at the end of each CFML line is *NOT* considered part of the CFML tag (obviously, only the parts in < > are part of the tag) and the "NEWLINE" is *NOT* removed by the parser. Thus: becomes: At 09:27 AM 1/31/01 +, Paul Johnston wrote: > > > > > > > Thats very interesting, because doing a view source indicates > > > > that they are > > > > using CF:-) > > > > > > > > I mean how many other scripting languages generate that much > > > whitespace! > > > > > > > > > > Erm... > > > > > > Loads of languages generate that much whitespace! > > > > Which ones? > >Perl (if badly written), PHP (if badly written), ASP (if badly written), CF >(if badly written), Mason (if badly written), and everything else under the >sun (if it's badly written). CF, however is a bit more interesting... > >The point about CF is that it uses the approach of "Anything written in CF >changes to whitespace when processed" as a default, instead of treating CF >as a programming language and compiling etc (prepare to flame me...). >That's what produces the whitespace. This can of course be turned off, and >can mean faster page loading. The CFML processor is effectively only a >parser (a fast one, but still a parser) so any other language that is parsed >like this will produce similar output. > >Paul > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
Ah... the Evil Whitespace... All CFSETTING does is remove any white space that "CF puts in". If you love indented web pages and use this extensively for your HTML, CF didn't put it in, YOU DID. If, however, a CF tag, once processed, would introduce space, CF will do string processing to remove the space from the page. If you do a lot of this in your page, stripping some of the empty space could make a difference, especially if you have 30+ lines of query statements, CFPARAMs, etc. at the top of every page. If your pages are fairly light on CF but have tons of tabs, CFSETTING won't really help you. So why bother using CFSETTING at all? Well, if you have a ton of CF code throughout your site, especially CFOUTPUTs utilizing queries or CFLOOPs, you are actually creating lots of activity in these parts of your page and white space may occur as a result. Removing this on complex pages or those with a lot of data, may very well shrink your web pages by a large amount. If so, ON THOSE PAGES, you should consider removing white space. Consider also what you'd ask CF to do if you asked it to remove absolutely every instance of tabs, extra spaces, etc. You'd be doing the equivalent of a REPLACE function which is a string operation, arguably the slowest possible operation a language undertakes (if you rule out external accesses to slow systems - CFHTTP for example). This could dramatically impact your CPU. The CF Admin remove whitespace function essentially is the same thing as putting CFSETTING at the beginning of EVERY page in your server. Allaire recommends that you NOT do this because, let's face it, not all of your pages are going to benefit from having the white space removed. So, if you tell CF to remove white space from ALL of your pages, it's doing a lot of extra work for little or no benefit in most cases. So what's the best approach? My suggestion is to run a page, do a Properties check on it to see how big the resulting file is. Save that file to your PC and then do a manual search/replace on all tabs and double spaces (not singles or sentences will be affected). Save the file and see how much smaller it is. If it's 1-2k you might not want to worry about it depending on your server's capacity and how busy your site is. If, however, the difference is several k, you might want to tune this page up because multiplied by thousands of page views, you're wasting megabytes of bandwidth and causing users to wait even longer for the rest of your site to start downloading. That's my two cents... I hope it helps. --Doug ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: removing whitespace (was RE: Statistics on Toy R Us)
> I've found that the easiest way to reduce the amount of > whitespace is to remove it from the actual templates once > they've been deleloped, though it obviously means your file > back up system needs to be pretty, er, well backed up. > > Here's what i do: > 1. develop on one server and use visual source safe. > 2. Load the templates up to the test server from VSS > 3. use a little app i wrote that uses CFFILE and Lee Borkman's > CF_LESSWHITESPACE tag to rip out any whitespace and empty > lines from the actual CFM files > 4. If it still works (and it hasn't failed yet) then thats > what goes up to the live server > > As i say, it does mean that you need to be _sure_ that you're > not messing up your original files, but other than that it seems > to work a treat. > > Removing carriage returns too would be nice, but i haven't > had time to make sure any js wasn't messed up. > > It also has the benefit of discouraging anyone from making > changes to the templates on the test or live servers - they're > kind of hard to read I favor this approach also, although to be honest we haven't implemented this yet at Fig Leaf. I've been testing this from another angle, using WSH to parse all the files, and to remove carriage returns. It really needs to be just one more step in the deployment process. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
removing whitespace (was RE: Statistics on Toy R Us)
I've found that the easiest way to reduce the amount of whitespace is to remove it from the actual templates once they've been deleloped, though it obviously means your file back up system needs to be pretty, er, well backed up. Here's what i do: 1. develop on one server and use visual source safe. 2. Load the templates up to the test server from VSS 3. use a little app i wrote that uses CFFILE and Lee Borkman's CF_LESSWHITESPACE tag to rip out any whitespace and empty lines from the actual CFM files 4. If it still works (and it hasn't failed yet) then thats what goes up to the live server As i say, it does mean that you need to be _sure_ that you're not messing up your original files, but other than that it seems to work a treat. Removing carriage returns too would be nice, but i haven't had time to make sure any js wasn't messed up. It also has the benefit of discouraging anyone from making changes to the templates on the test or live servers - they're kind of hard to read Bert > -Original Message- > From: Steve Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 31 January 2001 11:48 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us > > > > > Apparently the removewhitespace setting only applies to > > > whitespace internal to tags > > > e.g. > > > > > > datasource="dsn" > > > dbtype="odbc"> > > > > I know this is a dumb question, but WHAT F***ING USE IS THAT? > > > The internal CRs do bleed into the generated text so the all new super > snazzy removewhitespace does actually remove _some_ whitespace. > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
I've never done Perl or Mason, but I can say without a doubt this is not true about PHP and ASP. They do not leave whitespace around at all... I've seen some real bad examples of both, and nope, there just ain't lines after lines of whitespace. >Perl (if badly written), PHP (if badly written), ASP (if badly written), CF >(if badly written), Mason (if badly written), and everything else under the >sun (if it's badly written). CF, however is a bit more interesting... ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
> > Apparently the removewhitespace setting only applies to > > whitespace internal to tags > > e.g. > > > > datasource="dsn" > > dbtype="odbc"> > > I know this is a dumb question, but WHAT F***ING USE IS THAT? The internal CRs do bleed into the generated text so the all new super snazzy removewhitespace does actually remove _some_ whitespace. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
Too true, and that not what the option says on the Server, or at least it gives the impression that it removes all extraneous whitespace from the template. Probably an undisclosed feature Jason Lees National Express Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Philip Arnold - ASP [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 31 January 2001 11:04 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us > Apparently the removewhitespace setting only applies to > whitespace internal to tags > e.g. > > datasource="dsn" > dbtype="odbc"> I know this is a dumb question, but WHAT F***ING USE IS THAT? Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
> Apparently the removewhitespace setting only applies to > whitespace internal to tags > e.g. > > datasource="dsn" > dbtype="odbc"> I know this is a dumb question, but WHAT F***ING USE IS THAT? Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
Have you got ? -Original Message- From: Steve Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 31 January 2001 10:52 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us Apparently the removewhitespace setting only applies to whitespace internal to tags e.g. datasource="dsn" dbtype="odbc"> > -Original Message- > From: Jason Lees (National Express) > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 31 January 2001 10:34 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us > > > > I've got the remove whitespace setting applied on CF server and it doesn't > seem to make any difference to the size of the completed template, I still > get pages that are filled with whitespace. > > The only way I found to get rid of some, was to put CF comments in, this > reduces the Tabed indents to a single CRLF, but theres a trade > off, parsing > speed against page size. In testing I've found that it reduces pages by > upto 20% (depending on the page layout). > > Jason Lees > National Express > Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -Original Message----- > From: Philip Arnold - ASP [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 31 January 2001 10:13 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us > > > > The point about CF is that it uses the approach of "Anything > written in CF > > changes to whitespace when processed" as a default, instead of > treating CF > > as a programming language and compiling etc (prepare to flame me...). > > That's what produces the whitespace. This can of course be > > turned off, and > > can mean faster page loading. The CFML processor is effectively only a > > parser (a fast one, but still a parser) so any other language > > that is parsed like this will produce similar output. > > Just as a point on this - removing white-space only reduces the > time that it > takes to send the template to the user - using CFSETTING a lot > will actually > slow the server down (slightly) > > It's therefore a payoff as to whether you want the pages to be > built faster > or sent to the user faster - remembering that if you can turn more pages > around on the server, then you can serve more visitors - people > are willing > to wait an extra second or so, but if you've got a busy site, then you've > got to weigh up which one you prefer... > > You get what I mean :-/ > > Philip Arnold > Director > Certified ColdFusion Developer > ASP Multimedia Limited > T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 > > "Websites for the real world" > > ** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > the system manager. > ** > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
> I've got the remove whitespace setting applied on CF server and it doesn't > seem to make any difference to the size of the completed template, I still > get pages that are filled with whitespace. > > The only way I found to get rid of some, was to put CF comments in, this > reduces the Tabed indents to a single CRLF, but theres a trade > off, parsing > speed against page size. In testing I've found that it reduces pages by > upto 20% (depending on the page layout). If you want to remove whitespace form non-display areas of the template, either build the code in CFScript or use CFSetting Using CFSetting does add some overhead to the template build time... but not much... You can theoretically build a white-space-less template, but it takes a LOT of work... I'm not that worried if my output has a row of returns every now and again, it only adds slightly to the total page size... Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
Apparently the removewhitespace setting only applies to whitespace internal to tags e.g. datasource="dsn" dbtype="odbc"> > -Original Message- > From: Jason Lees (National Express) > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 31 January 2001 10:34 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us > > > > I've got the remove whitespace setting applied on CF server and it doesn't > seem to make any difference to the size of the completed template, I still > get pages that are filled with whitespace. > > The only way I found to get rid of some, was to put CF comments in, this > reduces the Tabed indents to a single CRLF, but theres a trade > off, parsing > speed against page size. In testing I've found that it reduces pages by > upto 20% (depending on the page layout). > > Jason Lees > National Express > Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -Original Message----- > From: Philip Arnold - ASP [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 31 January 2001 10:13 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us > > > > The point about CF is that it uses the approach of "Anything > written in CF > > changes to whitespace when processed" as a default, instead of > treating CF > > as a programming language and compiling etc (prepare to flame me...). > > That's what produces the whitespace. This can of course be > > turned off, and > > can mean faster page loading. The CFML processor is effectively only a > > parser (a fast one, but still a parser) so any other language > > that is parsed like this will produce similar output. > > Just as a point on this - removing white-space only reduces the > time that it > takes to send the template to the user - using CFSETTING a lot > will actually > slow the server down (slightly) > > It's therefore a payoff as to whether you want the pages to be > built faster > or sent to the user faster - remembering that if you can turn more pages > around on the server, then you can serve more visitors - people > are willing > to wait an extra second or so, but if you've got a busy site, then you've > got to weigh up which one you prefer... > > You get what I mean :-/ > > Philip Arnold > Director > Certified ColdFusion Developer > ASP Multimedia Limited > T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 > > "Websites for the real world" > > ** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > the system manager. > ** > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
I've got the remove whitespace setting applied on CF server and it doesn't seem to make any difference to the size of the completed template, I still get pages that are filled with whitespace. The only way I found to get rid of some, was to put CF comments in, this reduces the Tabed indents to a single CRLF, but theres a trade off, parsing speed against page size. In testing I've found that it reduces pages by upto 20% (depending on the page layout). Jason Lees National Express Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Philip Arnold - ASP [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 31 January 2001 10:13 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us > The point about CF is that it uses the approach of "Anything written in CF > changes to whitespace when processed" as a default, instead of treating CF > as a programming language and compiling etc (prepare to flame me...). > That's what produces the whitespace. This can of course be > turned off, and > can mean faster page loading. The CFML processor is effectively only a > parser (a fast one, but still a parser) so any other language > that is parsed like this will produce similar output. Just as a point on this - removing white-space only reduces the time that it takes to send the template to the user - using CFSETTING a lot will actually slow the server down (slightly) It's therefore a payoff as to whether you want the pages to be built faster or sent to the user faster - remembering that if you can turn more pages around on the server, then you can serve more visitors - people are willing to wait an extra second or so, but if you've got a busy site, then you've got to weigh up which one you prefer... You get what I mean :-/ Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
> The point about CF is that it uses the approach of "Anything written in CF > changes to whitespace when processed" as a default, instead of treating CF > as a programming language and compiling etc (prepare to flame me...). > That's what produces the whitespace. This can of course be > turned off, and > can mean faster page loading. The CFML processor is effectively only a > parser (a fast one, but still a parser) so any other language > that is parsed like this will produce similar output. Just as a point on this - removing white-space only reduces the time that it takes to send the template to the user - using CFSETTING a lot will actually slow the server down (slightly) It's therefore a payoff as to whether you want the pages to be built faster or sent to the user faster - remembering that if you can turn more pages around on the server, then you can serve more visitors - people are willing to wait an extra second or so, but if you've got a busy site, then you've got to weigh up which one you prefer... You get what I mean :-/ Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
> > > > > Thats very interesting, because doing a view source indicates > > > that they are > > > using CF:-) > > > > > > I mean how many other scripting languages generate that much > > whitespace! > > > > > > > Erm... > > > > Loads of languages generate that much whitespace! > > Which ones? Perl (if badly written), PHP (if badly written), ASP (if badly written), CF (if badly written), Mason (if badly written), and everything else under the sun (if it's badly written). CF, however is a bit more interesting... The point about CF is that it uses the approach of "Anything written in CF changes to whitespace when processed" as a default, instead of treating CF as a programming language and compiling etc (prepare to flame me...). That's what produces the whitespace. This can of course be turned off, and can mean faster page loading. The CFML processor is effectively only a parser (a fast one, but still a parser) so any other language that is parsed like this will produce similar output. Paul ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
Amazon (who hosts ToysRUs) does not use Cold Fusion.
They mainly use their own home-grown stuff. Originally written in Perl, now lots of
executables.
At 01:02 PM 1/30/01 +1100, Scott, Andrew wrote:
>Thats very interesting, because doing a view source indicates that they are
>using CF:-)
>
>I mean how many other scripting languages generate that much whitespace!
>
>
>regards
>
>Andrew Scott
>Senior Cold Fusion Application Developer
>ANZ Business eCommerce
>* Ph 8615 6018
>* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>---
>> This e-mail and any attachments to it (the "Communication") is
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>
>
>-Original Message-----
>From: Philip Arnold - ASP [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: 30 January 2001 05:14
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
>
>
>> I thot they had about 500 servers with load balancing by ColdFusion.
>
>HAD being the operative term - they re-wrote to something else (no idea
>what), but when they were CF (XMas 1999) they had 300+ servers, not 500
>
>Philip Arnold
>Director
>Certified ColdFusion Developer
>ASP Multimedia Limited
>T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133
>
>"Websites for the real world"
>
>**
>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
>are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
>the system manager.
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>
~~
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RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
> > > Thats very interesting, because doing a view source indicates > > that they are > > using CF:-) > > > > I mean how many other scripting languages generate that much > whitespace! > > > > Erm... > > Loads of languages generate that much whitespace! Which ones? ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
> Thats very interesting, because doing a view source indicates > that they are > using CF:-) > > I mean how many other scripting languages generate that much whitespace! > Erm... Loads of languages generate that much whitespace! Paul ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
> Thats very interesting, because doing a view source indicates > that they are using CF:-) > > I mean how many other scripting languages generate that much whitespace! If I remember correctly, Amazon actually have a language written by them for generating their pages - not sure where I heard/read it, but I definietly remember something about it Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
Thats very interesting, because doing a view source indicates that they are
using CF:-)
I mean how many other scripting languages generate that much whitespace!
regards
Andrew Scott
Senior Cold Fusion Application Developer
ANZ Business eCommerce
* Ph 8615 6018
* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
> This e-mail and any attachments to it (the "Communication") is
confidential and is for the use only of the intended recipient. The
Communication may contain copyright material of Australia and New Zealand
Banking Group Limited ABN 11 005 357 522 ("ANZ"), or any of its related
entities or of third parties. If you are not the intended recipient of the
Communication, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete
the Communication, and do not read, copy, print, retransmit, store or act in
reliance on the Communication. Any views expressed in the Communication are
those of the individual sender only, unless expressly stated to be those of
ANZ. ANZ does not guarantee the integrity of the Communication, or that it
is free from errors, viruses or interference.
-Original Message-
From: Philip Arnold - ASP [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 30 January 2001 05:14
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
> I thot they had about 500 servers with load balancing by ColdFusion.
HAD being the operative term - they re-wrote to something else (no idea
what), but when they were CF (XMas 1999) they had 300+ servers, not 500
Philip Arnold
Director
Certified ColdFusion Developer
ASP Multimedia Limited
T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133
"Websites for the real world"
**
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
**
~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at
http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Statistics on Toy R Us
> I thot they had about 500 servers with load balancing by ColdFusion. HAD being the operative term - they re-wrote to something else (no idea what), but when they were CF (XMas 1999) they had 300+ servers, not 500 Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Statistics on Toy R Us
I thot they had about 500 servers with load balancing by ColdFusion. best, paul At 12:34 AM 1/30/01 +1100, you wrote: >I was hoping someone might be able to help, sometime ago someone posted some >statistics to www.toysrus.com. I was hoping that someone if these are known, >to repost them again please. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Statistics on Toy R Us
You must be talking about historical statistics because Toys R Us gave up the farm (literally) and now lists their inventory on Amazon.com instead of running their own web site. At 12:34 AM 1/30/01 +1100, Andrew Scott wrote: >I was hoping someone might be able to help, sometime ago someone posted some >statistics to www.toysrus.com. I was hoping that someone if these are known, >to repost them again please. > >In specific, I wish to know the size of the farm. The amount of hits, the >site has recieved in its most busiest time. It would be even better if one >of the developers would drop me a line so that I can ask some questions, >regarding some perfomance issues. > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
