RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
Where I used to work, the decision to use Dell something of a company policy. I prefer to purchase, build and maintain "clone" machines for the following reasons: 1) %50 to %75 cost savings for the same or better system. 2) Dell uses proprietary RAM and charges at least 3x the going rate. 3) Dell puts unrealistic (and in my mind, unnecessary) restrictions on the amount of RAM you can put in a box, killing the one true upgrade path left in modern computers. 4) Dell short-changes the consumer on DIMM slots: you have to throw out memory to add more. 5) Dell uses proprietary motherboards with onboard video (and sound in the case of their desktops). 6) Dell's warrantee/replacement policy is great if something breaks on a week day between the hours of 5 and 9: otherwise, you're screwed. Although their phone support is fine (minus the hours on hold with Mozart's 5th), they've never walked into my office to fix anything: I end up doing all the work anyway. The only time a member of their tech support staff has told me something I didn't already know, it was because Dell was using a proprietary setup (RAID card, Motherboard, Video Card, etc.) that I couldn't find information about anywhere else. As far as the applications they load on servers before you get them, you can keep them. The fact that they would even preload so many computer crashing applications of questionable usefulness onto a server is absolutely ridiculous. I made a practice of reinstalling NT on Dell's immediately after I took them out of the box. I find this greatly increases the OS life expectancy and reduces the crash frequency. Now, I don't mean to pick on Dell in particular, but their name was mentioned, and I happen to have quite a bit of experience with their servers, desktops and support. All in all, Dell is in my mind, the best of the brand name products, both for servers and for the desktops. And, to give the Devil his due, I really appreciated their online driver library: I found it very comprehensive, accurate and up-to-date. I'll stop ranting now. :) Benjamin S. Rogers Web Developer, c4.net voice: (508) 240-0051 fax: (508) 240-0057 The facts, in my case, are that the 15 percent that I might pay for Dell over SAG (I couldn't find telenet) is worth it to me, because, over the past five years, Dell has really stood by their machines. I have purchased about 50 Dells and speced hundreds. We have had a DOA machine, which was replaced the next day and we have had machines fail in the last month of warrantee, but the service has been great. The phone support is also great, but the best thing, from my perspective, are the setup and configuration utilities and instructions which ship with the machines. These save hours on machines with complex setups and greatly simplify management. A few years ago we were buying (on the NT side) a mix of IBM, HP, Compaq and Dell. We whittled it down to just Compaq and Dell and, now, we are buying Dells almost exclusively. SAG, BTW, charges about the same price for RAM as Dell At 11:51 AM 7/27/2000 -0700, you wrote: --- snip --- >The savings comes down to the fact that if you build your own, or >preferably hook up with a company like telenet, you won't pay for the name >"Dell", which adds about 20% to the price tag. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
Maybe, but you can buy RAM at www.memory4less.com specifically for Dell servers, coincidentally, for less. AJ -Original Message- From: Cary Gordon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 8:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) Dell servers use proprietary RAM. At 01:36 PM 7/27/2000 -0400, you wrote: >Where are you buying your Ram at? -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
No they don't, or if they do, you can still buy it on the open market. If a sales rep. told you that they are feeding you a line of BS. They try to confuse you with all that, "168-pin, 5ns, CAS 2, ECC, non-buffered" stuff. I have a brand new Dell 6350 and I found RAM for it from several vendors. If the RAM vendor is worth a damn they will have a database of common machine models and their RAM types as well as the ability to decipher the codes on a chip and tell you exactly what it is. That said, I have found that Dell is much more reasonable on RAM upgrades than they used to be. I would only save around $200 on 2GB of RAM if I bought it from a RAM vendor vs. from Dell. In the past you would save more than that on just one 128MB DIMM. Steve -Original Message- From: Cary Gordon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) Dell servers use proprietary RAM. At 01:36 PM 7/27/2000 -0400, you wrote: >Where are you buying your Ram at? -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
The facts, in my case, are that the 15 percent that I might pay for Dell over SAG (I couldn't find telenet) is worth it to me, because, over the past five years, Dell has really stood by their machines. I have purchased about 50 Dells and speced hundreds. We have had a DOA machine, which was replaced the next day and we have had machines fail in the last month of warrantee, but the service has been great. The phone support is also great, but the best thing, from my perspective, are the setup and configuration utilities and instructions which ship with the machines. These save hours on machines with complex setups and greatly simplify management. A few years ago we were buying (on the NT side) a mix of IBM, HP, Compaq and Dell. We whittled it down to just Compaq and Dell and, now, we are buying Dells almost exclusively. SAG, BTW, charges about the same price for RAM as Dell At 11:51 AM 7/27/2000 -0700, you wrote: --- snip --- >The savings comes down to the fact that if you build your own, or >preferably hook up with a company like telenet, you won't pay for the name >"Dell", which adds about 20% to the price tag. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
Dell servers use proprietary RAM. At 01:36 PM 7/27/2000 -0400, you wrote: >Where are you buying your Ram at? -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
This is something M$ *might* to want to jump on ;-) The question is: Would they publish the results? Does anyone have a lab that could test such issues? Or is reliability past 3 9's not something most vendors want to discuss. (In my past structural engineering work, in some areas I found a design goal to be specified in terms of reliability. For example, I've been told aircraft landing gear are designed to fail not more than once in 10 to the 9th landings or 0.9 reliable per landing/threat (This is 9 9's !!!) Does anyone keep reliable statistics on *system* failure rates in this business? Or is it still in the dark ages? (I realize *system* means MANY different configurations.) best, paul PS> The intent of the first paragraph above is that a farm would buy more server software, and thus be something M$ *might* like, etc, etc.. ;-0 At 02:17 PM 7/27/00 -0700, you wrote: >PS> It would still be interesting to compare prices per 3 9's >for a farm like Shiloh's vs alternatives -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
very impressive. At 06:14 PM 7/27/2000 -0400, Steve Pierce wrote: >Nick Call wrote: > >> Okay, I am calling BS on this. Total BS. I priced rack-mount servers. > >> Even if I could afford a dozen of them in one shot, the discounted cost >per > >> server never gets below 1300 each for a CHEAP one with no OS or CF. > >You are paying too much for your computers and your bandwidth. You need to >work with a better purchasing person and get better deals. Depending on what >you pay for processor and RAM you can build a system for around a $1,000 a >unit. No software in this price. Remember, this is a cluster, you don't need >expensive SCSI drives. You need to rethink they way you put together your >systems when you look at clustering. SCSI is out, it isn't needed. All the >old rules don't apply. > >Yes it is 13,000 domains on one server. Every server has every domain and >they function as a cluster. And no, IIS won't do this, in fact it can't. >Microsoft after reviewing this config last year first said Shanje was nuts >and was on a Jihad. Then they said after reviewing this config, we should >have done it this way, IIS can't handle this. > >Here is what Microsoft said after reviewing Shanje's config on Oct 26, 1999: > >"We have seen clustered configurations with web server boxes in the cluster >serving up any of the sites in the cluster (typically via host-headers) off >of a shared network storage device (typically a Network Appliances box). >We have seen this a lot with UNIX and Apache but not on NT, at least not >until now. Website because it doesn't have a strong tie to the native >NT security system would be more readily adaptable to such a clustering >scheme than IIS would." > >In my opinion, Website smokes IIS when you look at Super Hosting domains on >servers. In my mind there is no other solution. The only program that can >handle this sort of domain traffic in a cluster is O'Reilly Website. Shanje >believes they can get way more domains per server cluster with no noticeable >degradation in cluster performance. Considering what I have seen so far, it >is no doubt in my mind that they are correct. > >then Nick Call wrote: > >> I will gladly pay for a plane ticket to go down there myself and tour > >> their facility. If it turns out to be true, I will move my domains there. > >When do you want to come up? The only requirement for a tour is you have to >report back to this list what you see. This is the real deal, I stake my >reputation on this. I have been on this list since day one. I would not make >this claim or corroborate what Shanje is doing if it wasn't true. > >Cheers! > > - Steve > >Steve Pierce, President >"Co-Location starting $99 per month, no setup fee" >HDL >Ypsilanti, MI and >Albuquerque, NM USA >Direct: (734) 482-9682 >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://HDL.com > > > > >-Original Message- >From: Nick Call [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 1:41 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) > > >Okay, I am calling BS on this. Total BS. I priced rack-mount servers. >Even if I could afford a dozen of them in one shot, the discounted cost per >server never gets below 1300 each for a CHEAP one with no OS or CF. We are >talking one SCSI hard drive, 512 meg ram, medium-range dual processor, only >one NIC card, only one power supply. Rack mounts are more expensive by >nature. My ENTRY level server TOWER with NT, SQL, CF, and e-mail cost me 7 >grand. Welcome to reality. > >You are also talking about 13,000 domains on one single server. That would >require multiple NIC cards, redundant power supplies, RAID-5 array, quad >processors, some sort of load balancing switch to handle it all, and plenty >of bandwidth. In my region, you can't get a single T-1 for less than $825 a >month on a one-year contract, and that's if you know someone and get special >pricing. > >I could go on and on, but the reality is it costs money to do hosting >properly, period. Way more than a grand. > >Also, there are plenty of us running an entire server farm just to handle >ONE domain! A single rack mount box would melt if you tried to put 13000 >domains on it, even if only half of them were running CF. > >Okay, I am ranting. My point is, don't be taken by marketing fluff! If >Shanje wants to stick by that claim (listed below), I will gladly pay for a >plane ticket to go down there myself and tour their facility. If it turns >out to be true, I will move my domains there. I believe they are NOT >running 13,000 Fusion-driven domains with 99% uptime on
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
Nick Call wrote: >> Okay, I am calling BS on this. Total BS. I priced rack-mount servers. >> Even if I could afford a dozen of them in one shot, the discounted cost per >> server never gets below 1300 each for a CHEAP one with no OS or CF. You are paying too much for your computers and your bandwidth. You need to work with a better purchasing person and get better deals. Depending on what you pay for processor and RAM you can build a system for around a $1,000 a unit. No software in this price. Remember, this is a cluster, you don't need expensive SCSI drives. You need to rethink they way you put together your systems when you look at clustering. SCSI is out, it isn't needed. All the old rules don't apply. Yes it is 13,000 domains on one server. Every server has every domain and they function as a cluster. And no, IIS won't do this, in fact it can't. Microsoft after reviewing this config last year first said Shanje was nuts and was on a Jihad. Then they said after reviewing this config, we should have done it this way, IIS can't handle this. Here is what Microsoft said after reviewing Shanje's config on Oct 26, 1999: "We have seen clustered configurations with web server boxes in the cluster serving up any of the sites in the cluster (typically via host-headers) off of a shared network storage device (typically a Network Appliances box). We have seen this a lot with UNIX and Apache but not on NT, at least not until now. Website because it doesn't have a strong tie to the native NT security system would be more readily adaptable to such a clustering scheme than IIS would." In my opinion, Website smokes IIS when you look at Super Hosting domains on servers. In my mind there is no other solution. The only program that can handle this sort of domain traffic in a cluster is O'Reilly Website. Shanje believes they can get way more domains per server cluster with no noticeable degradation in cluster performance. Considering what I have seen so far, it is no doubt in my mind that they are correct. then Nick Call wrote: >> I will gladly pay for a plane ticket to go down there myself and tour >> their facility. If it turns out to be true, I will move my domains there. When do you want to come up? The only requirement for a tour is you have to report back to this list what you see. This is the real deal, I stake my reputation on this. I have been on this list since day one. I would not make this claim or corroborate what Shanje is doing if it wasn't true. Cheers! - Steve Steve Pierce, President "Co-Location starting $99 per month, no setup fee" HDL Ypsilanti, MI and Albuquerque, NM USA Direct: (734) 482-9682 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://HDL.com -Original Message- From: Nick Call [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 1:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) Okay, I am calling BS on this. Total BS. I priced rack-mount servers. Even if I could afford a dozen of them in one shot, the discounted cost per server never gets below 1300 each for a CHEAP one with no OS or CF. We are talking one SCSI hard drive, 512 meg ram, medium-range dual processor, only one NIC card, only one power supply. Rack mounts are more expensive by nature. My ENTRY level server TOWER with NT, SQL, CF, and e-mail cost me 7 grand. Welcome to reality. You are also talking about 13,000 domains on one single server. That would require multiple NIC cards, redundant power supplies, RAID-5 array, quad processors, some sort of load balancing switch to handle it all, and plenty of bandwidth. In my region, you can't get a single T-1 for less than $825 a month on a one-year contract, and that's if you know someone and get special pricing. I could go on and on, but the reality is it costs money to do hosting properly, period. Way more than a grand. Also, there are plenty of us running an entire server farm just to handle ONE domain! A single rack mount box would melt if you tried to put 13000 domains on it, even if only half of them were running CF. Okay, I am ranting. My point is, don't be taken by marketing fluff! If Shanje wants to stick by that claim (listed below), I will gladly pay for a plane ticket to go down there myself and tour their facility. If it turns out to be true, I will move my domains there. I believe they are NOT running 13,000 Fusion-driven domains with 99% uptime on a single rack-mount box that they will sell me for a grand. More like a couple of boxes each the size of a refrigerator. Good luck! Nick - Original Message - From: "Cary Gordon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 10:40 AM Subject: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) > Yo, Paul, > > Where can I get a $1,000 server that will run 13,000 domains with 99.9% &
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
O'Reilly Website and NT 4 can easily handle many 10's of thousands of domains. Works great. IIS can't handle that many domains on a single box because of a brain dead way they do the registry and metabase. Microsoft says it is impossible to host that many domains on an NT box. I agree is you use IIS. But Website is the only solution for those that want to be a Super Host. - Steve -Original Message- From: !jeff! [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 2:05 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) On top of everything you said, I don't believe an OS can support 13,000 IP addresses, therefore they cannot support that many virtual domains on a single host. I think there was probably a typo in the original post. j At 11:40 AM 7/27/2000 -0600, Nick Call wrote: >Okay, I am calling BS on this. Total BS. I priced rack-mount servers. >Even if I could afford a dozen of them in one shot, the discounted cost per >server never gets below 1300 each for a CHEAP one with no OS or CF. We are >talking one SCSI hard drive, 512 meg ram, medium-range dual processor, only >one NIC card, only one power supply. Rack mounts are more expensive by >nature. My ENTRY level server TOWER with NT, SQL, CF, and e-mail cost me 7 >grand. Welcome to reality. > >You are also talking about 13,000 domains on one single server. That would >require multiple NIC cards, redundant power supplies, RAID-5 array, quad >processors, some sort of load balancing switch to handle it all, and plenty >of bandwidth. In my region, you can't get a single T-1 for less than $825 a >month on a one-year contract, and that's if you know someone and get special >pricing. > >I could go on and on, but the reality is it costs money to do hosting >properly, period. Way more than a grand. > >Also, there are plenty of us running an entire server farm just to handle >ONE domain! A single rack mount box would melt if you tried to put 13000 >domains on it, even if only half of them were running CF. > >Okay, I am ranting. My point is, don't be taken by marketing fluff! If >Shanje wants to stick by that claim (listed below), I will gladly pay for a >plane ticket to go down there myself and tour their facility. If it turns >out to be true, I will move my domains there. I believe they are NOT >running 13,000 Fusion-driven domains with 99% uptime on a single rack-mount >box that they will sell me for a grand. More like a couple of boxes each >the size of a refrigerator. > >Good luck! >Nick > > >- Original Message - >From: "Cary Gordon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 10:40 AM >Subject: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) > > > > Yo, Paul, > > > > Where can I get a $1,000 server that will run 13,000 domains with 99.9% > > uptime? I am serious. I am paying about $800 for 512mb of ram on our >Dell > > 2450s. At that price, I would have to get everything else for $200! > > > > Please tell us. Or, just tell me. > > > > Cary > > > > At 09:24 PM 7/26/2000 -0700, you wrote: > > >It would be interesting to see an accurate estimates of price points. >For > > >example, http://www.shanje.com/loadbalancing.shtml uses inexpensive rack > > >units for web/CF servers, about $1,000 each, and hosts over 13,000 >domains > > >on each server. Shiloh's web farm provides over 99.9% uptime on >websites. > > > > > >So I wonder what the software/hardware costs are, NT vs Solaris, to >achieve > > >the same reliability goal of 99.9% > > > > > >best, paul > > > > -- > > > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ > > To Unsubscribe visit >http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or >send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in >the body. > >--- --- >Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ >To Unsubscribe visit >http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or >send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in >the body. !j! The mark of mediocrity is searching for the precedent. !jeff! sherwood Director of BIGWORDS.com Web Site Design / JEDI BIGWORDS.com worker#2 .r.e.c.o.v.e.r.e.d.n.e.t.s.c.a.p.e.u.s.e.r. . . . 415.543.1400.x300
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
We buy it on the open market. Search Pricewatch. It always fluctuates, but we hammer good deals all the time. - Steve -Original Message- From: Bill Killillay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 1:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) Where are you buying your Ram at? > -Original Message- > From: Steve Pierce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 1:24 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) > > > We pay less than $200 per 256MB of RAM. It is pretty easy to > build killer 1U > rack servers for about $1,000. The web servers generally only > need 256MB of > RAM because it is a distributed farm and shares the load. > > - Steve > > > -Original Message- > From: Cary Gordon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 12:41 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) > > > Yo, Paul, > > Where can I get a $1,000 server that will run 13,000 domains with 99.9% > uptime? I am serious. I am paying about $800 for 512mb of ram > on our Dell > 2450s. At that price, I would have to get everything else for $200! > > Please tell us. Or, just tell me. > > Cary > > At 09:24 PM 7/26/2000 -0700, you wrote: > >It would be interesting to see an accurate estimates of price > points. For > >example, http://www.shanje.com/loadbalancing.shtml uses inexpensive rack > >units for web/CF servers, about $1,000 each, and hosts over > 13,000 domains > >on each server. Shiloh's web farm provides over 99.9% uptime on > websites. > > > >So I wonder what the software/hardware costs are, NT vs Solaris, > to achieve > >the same reliability goal of 99.9% > > > >best, paul > > -- > -- > -- > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ > To Unsubscribe visit > http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or > send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in > the body. > > -- > > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ > To Unsubscribe visit > http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf _talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
It would be mis-leading if someone said that, but what I did say is: "It would be interesting to see an accurate estimates of price points. For example, http://www.shanje.com/loadbalancing.shtml uses inexpensive rack units for web/CF servers, about $1,000 each, and hosts over 13,000 domains on each server. Shiloh's web farm provides over 99.9% uptime on websites" I also provided a link to Shiloh's description of his farm, and I believe I clearly stated that the "farm" delivered the stated reliability. best, paul PS> It would still be interesting to compare prices per 3 9's for a farm like Shiloh's vs alternatives. At 11:51 AM 7/27/00 -0700, you wrote: >However, it's misleading to say that this solution can be had with a $1000 >server and expect it to be taken at face value. Because you need multiple >hosts to maintain the uptime that you would get with one really slick dell >poweredge, the cost savings is not what it looks like - you need more than >one $1000 machine. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --_=_NextPart_001_01BFF810.13A1B1F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Uh, you can do virtual hosts without IPs. "A product's only late once, but it can suck forever." -- Ben Spees, Ambrosia Software Bryan D. Batchelder Palm Wireless/Internet Application Developer W: 813.935.7100 W: 813-936-8844 x 423 (after 5:30PM EST) H: 727-547-1322 M: 727-808-4296 ConnectWise, Inc. (www.ConnectWise.com) 2803 West Busch Blvd, Suite 204 Tampa, FL 33618 -Original Message- From: Bud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 5:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) On 7/27/00, !jeff! penned: >On top of everything you said, I don't believe an OS can support 13,000 IP >addresses, therefore they cannot support that many virtual domains on a >single host. I think there was probably a typo in the original post. I'm running 70-some domains (and counting) on 2 IP addresses. :) -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. --_=_NextPart_001_01BFF810.13A1B1F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) Uh, you can do virtual hosts without IPs. "A product's only late once, but it can = suck forever." -- Ben Spees, Ambrosia = Software = Bryan D. Batchelder Palm Wireless/Internet Application Developer W: 813.935.7100 W: 813-936-8844 x 423 (after 5:30PM EST) H: 727-547-1322 M: 727-808-4296 ConnectWise, Inc. (www.ConnectWise.com) 2803 West Busch Blvd, Suite 204 Tampa, FL 33618 -Original Message- From: Bud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mailto:webcreation@mindspring= .com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 5:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered = Scaling) On 7/27/00, !jeff! penned: >On top of everything you said, I don't believe = an OS can support 13,000 IP >addresses, therefore they cannot support that = many virtual domains on a >single host. I think there was probably a = typo in the original post. I'm running 70-some domains (and counting) on 2 IP = addresses. :) -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 ---= --- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/= To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=3Dlists&body=3Dli= sts/cf_talk" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=3Dlists= &body=3Dlists/cf_talk or send a message to = [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the = body. --_=_NextPart_001_01BFF810.13A1B1F0-- -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
On 7/27/00, !jeff! penned: >On top of everything you said, I don't believe an OS can support 13,000 IP >addresses, therefore they cannot support that many virtual domains on a >single host. I think there was probably a typo in the original post. I'm running 70-some domains (and counting) on 2 IP addresses. :) -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
Q) How many domains does Shanje host? A) We current host over 13,000 (as of July 8, 2000). See http://www.shanje.com/faq.shtml I do not believe Shiloh would mis-state this. I, and a lot others, have a lot of respect for him. best, paul PS> As has been pointed out before, this is possible with WebSitePro www.ora.com IIS has been reported to buckle under 100's. At 11:05 AM 7/27/00 -0700, you wrote: >On top of everything you said, I don't believe an OS can support 13,000 IP >addresses, therefore they cannot support that many virtual domains on a >single host. I think there was probably a typo in the original post. > >j > > >At 11:40 AM 7/27/2000 -0600, Nick Call wrote: > >Okay, I am calling BS on this. Total BS. I priced rack-mount servers. > >Even if I could afford a dozen of them in one shot, the discounted cost per > >server never gets below 1300 each for a CHEAP one with no OS or CF. We are > >talking one SCSI hard drive, 512 meg ram, medium-range dual processor, only > >one NIC card, only one power supply. Rack mounts are more expensive by > >nature. My ENTRY level server TOWER with NT, SQL, CF, and e-mail cost me 7 > >grand. Welcome to reality. > > > >You are also talking about 13,000 domains on one single server. That would > >require multiple NIC cards, redundant power supplies, RAID-5 array, quad > >processors, some sort of load balancing switch to handle it all, and plenty > >of bandwidth. In my region, you can't get a single T-1 for less than $825 a > >month on a one-year contract, and that's if you know someone and get special > >pricing. > > > >I could go on and on, but the reality is it costs money to do hosting > >properly, period. Way more than a grand. > > > >Also, there are plenty of us running an entire server farm just to handle > >ONE domain! A single rack mount box would melt if you tried to put 13000 > >domains on it, even if only half of them were running CF. > > > >Okay, I am ranting. My point is, don't be taken by marketing fluff! If > >Shanje wants to stick by that claim (listed below), I will gladly pay for a > >plane ticket to go down there myself and tour their facility. If it turns > >out to be true, I will move my domains there. I believe they are NOT > >running 13,000 Fusion-driven domains with 99% uptime on a single rack-mount > >box that they will sell me for a grand. More like a couple of boxes each > >the size of a refrigerator. > > > >Good luck! > >Nick > > > > > >- Original Message - > >From: "Cary Gordon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 10:40 AM > >Subject: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) > > > > > > > Yo, Paul, > > > > > > Where can I get a $1,000 server that will run 13,000 domains with 99.9% > > > uptime? I am serious. I am paying about $800 for 512mb of ram on our > >Dell > > > 2450s. At that price, I would have to get everything else for $200! > > > > > > Please tell us. Or, just tell me. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > At 09:24 PM 7/26/2000 -0700, you wrote: > > > >It would be interesting to see an accurate estimates of price points. > >For > > > >example, http://www.shanje.com/loadbalancing.shtml uses inexpensive rack > > > >units for web/CF servers, about $1,000 each, and hosts over 13,000 > >domains > > > >on each server. Shiloh's web farm provides over 99.9% uptime on > >websites. > > > > > > > >So I wonder what the software/hardware costs are, NT vs Solaris, to > >achieve > > > >the same reliability goal of 99.9% > > > > > > > >best, paul > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ > > > To Unsubscribe visit > >http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or > >send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in > >the body. > > > >- > - > >Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ > >To Unsubscribe visit > >http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or > >send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in > >the body. > >!j! > >The mark of mediocrity is searching for the precedent. > >!jeff! sherwood Director of BIGWORDS.com Web Site Design / JEDI >BIGWORDS.com worker#2 >.r.e.c.o.v.e.r.e.d.n.e.t.s.c.a.p.e.u.s.e.r. . . . 415.543.1400.x300 > >-- >Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ >To Unsubscribe visit >http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or >send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in >the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.
Re: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
On 7/27/00, Nick Call penned: >Okay, I am ranting. My point is, don't be taken by marketing fluff! If >Shanje wants to stick by that claim (listed below), I will gladly pay for a >plane ticket to go down there myself and tour their facility. If it turns >out to be true, I will move my domains there. I believe they are NOT >running 13,000 Fusion-driven domains with 99% uptime on a single rack-mount >box that they will sell me for a grand. More like a couple of boxes each >the size of a refrigerator. They don't say that. They are running 13,000 domains on a big 'ol file server, which a bunch of 1,000.00 servers read from and serve up to the web. -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
I'm not questioning shanje's hosting prowess. Indeed, what they've developed is extremely admirable. I just find it difficult to believe, actually impossible to believe that an NT solution which puts the traffic of 13,000 web sites on each and every machine is the best way, and I doubt that's what's going on. they probably have some UNIX mixed in, or at least have small clusters for portions of the domain(s) traffic - at least in this way they could segment the database traffic. I could be wrong, but instead of us arguing about it, I'd love to hear from shanje. I thought that we were talking about $1000 servers. What shanje is doing, if I understand it correctly, with regards to the server purchases they make, makes quite a lot of sense. You don't need dual power supplies, raid drives, etc. when you have a LOT of load balanced machines; if one blows up, you pull it out and fix it. If you need a machine for some other purpose, you yank it from the web farm. Instead of pouring dough into one big box, pour smaller amounts into a bunch of little ones. However, it's misleading to say that this solution can be had with a $1000 server and expect it to be taken at face value. Because you need multiple hosts to maintain the uptime that you would get with one really slick dell poweredge, the cost savings is not what it looks like - you need more than one $1000 machine. The savings comes down to the fact that if you build your own, or preferably hook up with a company like telenet, you won't pay for the name "Dell", which adds about 20% to the price tag. j At 11:06 AM 7/27/2000 -0700, you wrote: >IP-LESS domains might help, dont ya think? > > > > -Original Message- > > From: !jeff! [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > On top of everything you said, I don't believe an OS can support > > 13,000 IP > > addresses, therefore they cannot support that many virtual domains on a > > single host. I think there was probably a typo in the original post. > > > > j > >-- >Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ >To Unsubscribe visit >http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or >send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in >the body. !j! The mark of mediocrity is searching for the precedent. !jeff! sherwood Director of BIGWORDS.com Web Site Design / JEDI BIGWORDS.com worker#2 .r.e.c.o.v.e.r.e.d.n.e.t.s.c.a.p.e.u.s.e.r. . . . 415.543.1400.x300 -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
Check out the link below. I didn't claim ONE $1000 server could serve 13,000 domains reliably. A farm of them can. The question is how many are required for a given reliability target? As to price, at $1,000 I had in mind build your own. best, paul If you want DELL quality at a lower price, check out www.sagelectronics.com At 09:40 AM 7/27/00 -0700, you wrote: >Yo, Paul, > >Where can I get a $1,000 server that will run 13,000 domains with 99.9% >uptime? I am serious. I am paying about $800 for 512mb of ram on our Dell >2450s. At that price, I would have to get everything else for $200! > >Please tell us. Or, just tell me. > >Cary > >At 09:24 PM 7/26/2000 -0700, you wrote: > >It would be interesting to see an accurate estimates of price points. For > >example, http://www.shanje.com/loadbalancing.shtml uses inexpensive rack > >units for web/CF servers, about $1,000 each, and hosts over 13,000 domains > >on each server. Shiloh's web farm provides over 99.9% uptime on websites. > > > >So I wonder what the software/hardware costs are, NT vs Solaris, to achieve > >the same reliability goal of 99.9% > > > >best, paul > >-- >Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ >To Unsubscribe visit >http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or >send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in >the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
--=_7763604==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Since when did every domain need it's own IP address? Unless you are still building for Netscape 2.0... At 11:05 AM 7/27/00 -0700, !jeff! wrote: >On top of everything you said, I don't believe an OS can support 13,000 IP >addresses, therefore they cannot support that many virtual domains on a >single host. I think there was probably a typo in the original post. > >j > > >At 11:40 AM 7/27/2000 -0600, Nick Call wrote: >>Okay, I am calling BS on this. Total BS. I priced rack-mount servers. >>Even if I could afford a dozen of them in one shot, the discounted cost per >>server never gets below 1300 each for a CHEAP one with no OS or CF. We are >>talking one SCSI hard drive, 512 meg ram, medium-range dual processor, only >>one NIC card, only one power supply. Rack mounts are more expensive by >>nature. My ENTRY level server TOWER with NT, SQL, CF, and e-mail cost me 7 >>grand. Welcome to reality. >> >>You are also talking about 13,000 domains on one single server. That would >>require multiple NIC cards, redundant power supplies, RAID-5 array, quad >>processors, some sort of load balancing switch to handle it all, and plenty >>of bandwidth. In my region, you can't get a single T-1 for less than $825 a >>month on a one-year contract, and that's if you know someone and get special >>pricing. >> >>I could go on and on, but the reality is it costs money to do hosting >>properly, period. Way more than a grand. >> >>Also, there are plenty of us running an entire server farm just to handle >>ONE domain! A single rack mount box would melt if you tried to put 13000 >>domains on it, even if only half of them were running CF. >> >>Okay, I am ranting. My point is, don't be taken by marketing fluff! If >>Shanje wants to stick by that claim (listed below), I will gladly pay for a >>plane ticket to go down there myself and tour their facility. If it turns >>out to be true, I will move my domains there. I believe they are NOT >>running 13,000 Fusion-driven domains with 99% uptime on a single rack-mount >>box that they will sell me for a grand. More like a couple of boxes each >>the size of a refrigerator. >> >>Good luck! >>Nick >> >> >>- Original Message - >>From: "Cary Gordon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 10:40 AM >>Subject: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) >> >> >> > Yo, Paul, >> > >> > Where can I get a $1,000 server that will run 13,000 domains with 99.9% >> > uptime? I am serious. I am paying about $800 for 512mb of ram on our >>Dell >> > 2450s. At that price, I would have to get everything else for $200! >> > >> > Please tell us. Or, just tell me. >> > >> > Cary >> > >> > At 09:24 PM 7/26/2000 -0700, you wrote: >> > >It would be interesting to see an accurate estimates of price points. >>For >> > >example, http://www.shanje.com/loadbalancing.shtml uses inexpensive rack >> > >units for web/CF servers, about $1,000 each, and hosts over 13,000 >>domains >> > >on each server. Shiloh's web farm provides over 99.9% uptime on >>websites. >> > > >> > >So I wonder what the software/hardware costs are, NT vs Solaris, to >>achieve >> > >the same reliability goal of 99.9% >> > > >> > >best, paul >> > >> > -- >> >> > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ >> > To Unsubscribe visit >>http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or >>send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in >>the body. >> >>-- >>Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ >>To Unsubscribe visit >>http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or >>send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in >>the body. > >!j! > >The mark of mediocrity is searching for the precedent. > >!jeff! sherwood Director of BIGWORDS.com Web Site Design / JEDI > BIGWORDS.com worker#2 >.r.e.c.o.v.e.r.e.d.n.e.t.s.c.a.p.e.u.s.e.r. . . . 415.543.1400.x300 > >-- >Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ >To Unsubscribe visit >http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a >message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. --- Peter Theobald, Chief Technology Officer LiquidStreaming http://www.liquidstreaming.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone 1.212.545.1232 Fax 1.212.679.8032 --=_7763604==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Since when did every domain need it's own IP address? Unless you are still building for Netscape 2.0... At 11:05 AM 7/27/00 -070
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
IP-LESS domains might help, dont ya think? > -Original Message- > From: !jeff! [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > On top of everything you said, I don't believe an OS can support > 13,000 IP > addresses, therefore they cannot support that many virtual domains on a > single host. I think there was probably a typo in the original post. > > j -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
On top of everything you said, I don't believe an OS can support 13,000 IP addresses, therefore they cannot support that many virtual domains on a single host. I think there was probably a typo in the original post. j At 11:40 AM 7/27/2000 -0600, Nick Call wrote: >Okay, I am calling BS on this. Total BS. I priced rack-mount servers. >Even if I could afford a dozen of them in one shot, the discounted cost per >server never gets below 1300 each for a CHEAP one with no OS or CF. We are >talking one SCSI hard drive, 512 meg ram, medium-range dual processor, only >one NIC card, only one power supply. Rack mounts are more expensive by >nature. My ENTRY level server TOWER with NT, SQL, CF, and e-mail cost me 7 >grand. Welcome to reality. > >You are also talking about 13,000 domains on one single server. That would >require multiple NIC cards, redundant power supplies, RAID-5 array, quad >processors, some sort of load balancing switch to handle it all, and plenty >of bandwidth. In my region, you can't get a single T-1 for less than $825 a >month on a one-year contract, and that's if you know someone and get special >pricing. > >I could go on and on, but the reality is it costs money to do hosting >properly, period. Way more than a grand. > >Also, there are plenty of us running an entire server farm just to handle >ONE domain! A single rack mount box would melt if you tried to put 13000 >domains on it, even if only half of them were running CF. > >Okay, I am ranting. My point is, don't be taken by marketing fluff! If >Shanje wants to stick by that claim (listed below), I will gladly pay for a >plane ticket to go down there myself and tour their facility. If it turns >out to be true, I will move my domains there. I believe they are NOT >running 13,000 Fusion-driven domains with 99% uptime on a single rack-mount >box that they will sell me for a grand. More like a couple of boxes each >the size of a refrigerator. > >Good luck! >Nick > > >- Original Message - >From: "Cary Gordon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 10:40 AM >Subject: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) > > > > Yo, Paul, > > > > Where can I get a $1,000 server that will run 13,000 domains with 99.9% > > uptime? I am serious. I am paying about $800 for 512mb of ram on our >Dell > > 2450s. At that price, I would have to get everything else for $200! > > > > Please tell us. Or, just tell me. > > > > Cary > > > > At 09:24 PM 7/26/2000 -0700, you wrote: > > >It would be interesting to see an accurate estimates of price points. >For > > >example, http://www.shanje.com/loadbalancing.shtml uses inexpensive rack > > >units for web/CF servers, about $1,000 each, and hosts over 13,000 >domains > > >on each server. Shiloh's web farm provides over 99.9% uptime on >websites. > > > > > >So I wonder what the software/hardware costs are, NT vs Solaris, to >achieve > > >the same reliability goal of 99.9% > > > > > >best, paul > > > > -- > > > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ > > To Unsubscribe visit >http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or >send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in >the body. > >-- >Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ >To Unsubscribe visit >http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or >send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in >the body. !j! The mark of mediocrity is searching for the precedent. !jeff! sherwood Director of BIGWORDS.com Web Site Design / JEDI BIGWORDS.com worker#2 .r.e.c.o.v.e.r.e.d.n.e.t.s.c.a.p.e.u.s.e.r. . . . 415.543.1400.x300 -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
I dont think they are all Fusion driven my friend, they support lots of different technology. Ive been on the WS-TALK list for a long time and have seen Shiloh of Shanje grow from what I believe was a single server to this. He knows hardware and is a pretty slick programmer/admin, I dont doubt that they are hosting that many domains, ok so all of them are not getting the high hits but I bet by this time they have even more. Also, when you build your own machines you can save lots of money... -Adrian > -Original Message- > From: Nick Call [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Okay, I am calling BS on this. Total BS. I priced rack-mount servers. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
Okay, I am calling BS on this. Total BS. I priced rack-mount servers. Even if I could afford a dozen of them in one shot, the discounted cost per server never gets below 1300 each for a CHEAP one with no OS or CF. We are talking one SCSI hard drive, 512 meg ram, medium-range dual processor, only one NIC card, only one power supply. Rack mounts are more expensive by nature. My ENTRY level server TOWER with NT, SQL, CF, and e-mail cost me 7 grand. Welcome to reality. You are also talking about 13,000 domains on one single server. That would require multiple NIC cards, redundant power supplies, RAID-5 array, quad processors, some sort of load balancing switch to handle it all, and plenty of bandwidth. In my region, you can't get a single T-1 for less than $825 a month on a one-year contract, and that's if you know someone and get special pricing. I could go on and on, but the reality is it costs money to do hosting properly, period. Way more than a grand. Also, there are plenty of us running an entire server farm just to handle ONE domain! A single rack mount box would melt if you tried to put 13000 domains on it, even if only half of them were running CF. Okay, I am ranting. My point is, don't be taken by marketing fluff! If Shanje wants to stick by that claim (listed below), I will gladly pay for a plane ticket to go down there myself and tour their facility. If it turns out to be true, I will move my domains there. I believe they are NOT running 13,000 Fusion-driven domains with 99% uptime on a single rack-mount box that they will sell me for a grand. More like a couple of boxes each the size of a refrigerator. Good luck! Nick - Original Message - From: "Cary Gordon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 10:40 AM Subject: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) > Yo, Paul, > > Where can I get a $1,000 server that will run 13,000 domains with 99.9% > uptime? I am serious. I am paying about $800 for 512mb of ram on our Dell > 2450s. At that price, I would have to get everything else for $200! > > Please tell us. Or, just tell me. > > Cary > > At 09:24 PM 7/26/2000 -0700, you wrote: > >It would be interesting to see an accurate estimates of price points. For > >example, http://www.shanje.com/loadbalancing.shtml uses inexpensive rack > >units for web/CF servers, about $1,000 each, and hosts over 13,000 domains > >on each server. Shiloh's web farm provides over 99.9% uptime on websites. > > > >So I wonder what the software/hardware costs are, NT vs Solaris, to achieve > >the same reliability goal of 99.9% > > > >best, paul > > -- > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ > To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
Where are you buying your Ram at? > -Original Message- > From: Steve Pierce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 1:24 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) > > > We pay less than $200 per 256MB of RAM. It is pretty easy to > build killer 1U > rack servers for about $1,000. The web servers generally only > need 256MB of > RAM because it is a distributed farm and shares the load. > > - Steve > > > -Original Message- > From: Cary Gordon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 12:41 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) > > > Yo, Paul, > > Where can I get a $1,000 server that will run 13,000 domains with 99.9% > uptime? I am serious. I am paying about $800 for 512mb of ram > on our Dell > 2450s. At that price, I would have to get everything else for $200! > > Please tell us. Or, just tell me. > > Cary > > At 09:24 PM 7/26/2000 -0700, you wrote: > >It would be interesting to see an accurate estimates of price > points. For > >example, http://www.shanje.com/loadbalancing.shtml uses inexpensive rack > >units for web/CF servers, about $1,000 each, and hosts over > 13,000 domains > >on each server. Shiloh's web farm provides over 99.9% uptime on > websites. > > > >So I wonder what the software/hardware costs are, NT vs Solaris, > to achieve > >the same reliability goal of 99.9% > > > >best, paul > > -- > -- > -- > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ > To Unsubscribe visit > http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or > send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in > the body. > > -- > > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ > To Unsubscribe visit > http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf _talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
Well, I think the problem here is that you are paying $400 for the RAM and another $400 for the word "Dell". ;) To keep this kinda on topic though, I'm in the process of building a web site that will hopefully have high volumes of traffic (~500,000 unique visitors per day and about 134 million page views per month) within a couple of years. Is there a good central resource for building high load sites of this type? I'm looking for one that covers all of the bases: equipment, operating systems, database optimization, clustering, scaling .. all them fancy buzz-words. Though my main interest in using coldfusion for such large scale projects, I would like to find something with all of that other stuff in it too. I guess I'm looking for a mega-how-to. Like the way this thread originally started, I'm looking to squeeze every bit of performance I can out of everything. Anyone have any links they can toss my way? Thanks Todd Ashworth - Original Message - From: "Cary Gordon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 12:40 PM Subject: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) | Yo, Paul, | | Where can I get a $1,000 server that will run 13,000 domains with 99.9% | uptime? I am serious. I am paying about $800 for 512mb of ram on our Dell | 2450s. At that price, I would have to get everything else for $200! | | Please tell us. Or, just tell me. | | Cary -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
RE: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
We pay less than $200 per 256MB of RAM. It is pretty easy to build killer 1U rack servers for about $1,000. The web servers generally only need 256MB of RAM because it is a distributed farm and shares the load. - Steve -Original Message- From: Cary Gordon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 12:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling) Yo, Paul, Where can I get a $1,000 server that will run 13,000 domains with 99.9% uptime? I am serious. I am paying about $800 for 512mb of ram on our Dell 2450s. At that price, I would have to get everything else for $200! Please tell us. Or, just tell me. Cary At 09:24 PM 7/26/2000 -0700, you wrote: >It would be interesting to see an accurate estimates of price points. For >example, http://www.shanje.com/loadbalancing.shtml uses inexpensive rack >units for web/CF servers, about $1,000 each, and hosts over 13,000 domains >on each server. Shiloh's web farm provides over 99.9% uptime on websites. > >So I wonder what the software/hardware costs are, NT vs Solaris, to achieve >the same reliability goal of 99.9% > >best, paul -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body. -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
Re: $1,000 servers (was: High-Powered Scaling)
check out telenet. You're not going to hit the $1000 mark, but they sure beat dell. At 09:40 AM 7/27/2000 -0700, Cary Gordon wrote: >Yo, Paul, > >Where can I get a $1,000 server that will run 13,000 domains with 99.9% >uptime? I am serious. I am paying about $800 for 512mb of ram on our Dell >2450s. At that price, I would have to get everything else for $200! > >Please tell us. Or, just tell me. > >Cary > >At 09:24 PM 7/26/2000 -0700, you wrote: > >It would be interesting to see an accurate estimates of price points. For > >example, http://www.shanje.com/loadbalancing.shtml uses inexpensive rack > >units for web/CF servers, about $1,000 each, and hosts over 13,000 domains > >on each server. Shiloh's web farm provides over 99.9% uptime on websites. > > > >So I wonder what the software/hardware costs are, NT vs Solaris, to achieve > >the same reliability goal of 99.9% > > > >best, paul > >-- >Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ >To Unsubscribe visit >http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or >send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in >the body. !j! The mark of mediocrity is searching for the precedent. !jeff! sherwood Director of BIGWORDS.com Web Site Design / JEDI BIGWORDS.com worker#2 .r.e.c.o.v.e.r.e.d.n.e.t.s.c.a.p.e.u.s.e.r. . . . 415.543.1400.x300 -- Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ To Unsubscribe visit http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk or send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the body.
