RE: Can this be improved

[Eric Roberts]

I would agree...unless it is a really, really complex query that is just
killing performance...I try and avoid SP's...they make life so much harder
for debugging.  I haven't jumped into ORM land yet...it's on the list.


Three Ravens Consulting
Eric Roberts
Owner/Developer
ow...@threeravensconsulting.com
tel: 630-486-5255
fax: 630-310-8531
http://www.threeravensconsulting.com

-Original Message-
From: Cameron Childress [mailto:camer...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 9:28 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Can this be improved


On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Bruce Sorge  wrote:

> I did not use stored procs because I have having issues with making 
> them on MySQL since I am new to the db, so I know that is one 
> improvement that I could make.
>

In addition to casey's comments, I would generally say that using Stored
Procs is usually NOT an improvement. they don't usually give you a
measurable performance gain, nor a security gain. They just end up making
your code less maintainable since you have to maintain things in two places
(the DB and CF code) instead of just one place (CF code). They also make
your code less portable.

ORM, on the other hand, makes your code WAY WAY WAY more portable, and
(once you are past the learning curve) much faster to do development and
easier to maintain.

-Cameron

--
Cameron Childress
--
p:   678.637.5072
im: cameroncf
facebook <http://www.facebook.com/cameroncf> |
twitter<http://twitter.com/cameronc> |
google+ <https://profiles.google.com/u/0/117829379451708140985>




~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:353359
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm

Re: Can this be improved

[Bryan Stevenson]

Thanks Cameronand sorry on the portable/better goof ;-)

I'd say from what you and Russ have said that there is no urgent need
for me to experience the learning curve.  I'll swing back and take a
peek so I am better informed and give it  a fair kick at the can ;-)

Cheers

On Mon, 2012-12-03 at 14:04 -0500, Cameron Childress wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Bryan Stevenson <
> br...@electricedgesystems.com> wrote:
> 
> > So what is it about ORM that makes this "WAY WAY WAY better"
> >
> 
> I didn't say "better", actually, I said "portable"
> 
> 
> > Why is ORM (or ORM with CF) the magic bullet?  Simple real life example?
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a magic bullet. This is the reason we all are
> employed. I've used ORM in CF for a number of projects, and have
> used/explored maybe 50% of it's functionality so far. I am by no means an
> expert, however in my own personal experience..
> 
> ORM is good at:
> - Hibernate makes CRUD drop dead simple.
> - Your code will be shorter, more consistant
> - Changes are easier to make in one central place
> - You can even have Hibernate build your tables for you! Including
> relationships and indexes!
> - HQL Will let you "drop down to SQL" when the ORM entities don't seem to
> be doing the job alone.
> 
> ORM is bad at:
> - Learning curve. The basics are easy. Adding complexity adds er...
> complexity.
> - Errors that it throws are sometimes misleading and semi-nonsensical
> (impacts learning curve)
> - Things like Self-Joins and more advances functionality can be difficult
> to figure out.
> 
> Like any tool in your programming toolbox, you have to know when to use it
> and when not to.
> 
> -Cameron
> 


-- 
Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. - makers of FACTS™
phone: 250.480.0642
cell: 250.920.8830
e-mail: br...@electricedgesystems.com
web: www.electricedgesystems.com and www.fisheryfacts.com 




Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

-CONFIDENTIALITY--
This message, including any attachments, is confidential and may contain
information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure. It is intended
only for the person to whom it is addressed unless expressly authorized
otherwise by the sender. If you are not an authorized recipient, please
notify the sender immediately and permanently destroy all copies of this
message and attachments.



~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:353357
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm

Re: Can this be improved

[Bryan Stevenson]

Thanks Russ.in my world that is not an issueand I'll stay custom
if that's the only benefit.

I can re-write T-SQL to PL-SQL in my sleep, but the only place I use
PL-SQL is for custom system dev clientsand we are mostly moved to a
product based company where our DBs of choice are T-SQL based (thus
highly portable to other T-SQL based DBs should the need arise).

Thanks for the concrete example Russmuch appreciated.



~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:353356
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm

Re: Can this be improved

[Cameron Childress]

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Bryan Stevenson <
br...@electricedgesystems.com> wrote:

> So what is it about ORM that makes this "WAY WAY WAY better"
>

I didn't say "better", actually, I said "portable"


> Why is ORM (or ORM with CF) the magic bullet?  Simple real life example?


There is no such thing as a magic bullet. This is the reason we all are
employed. I've used ORM in CF for a number of projects, and have
used/explored maybe 50% of it's functionality so far. I am by no means an
expert, however in my own personal experience..

ORM is good at:
- Hibernate makes CRUD drop dead simple.
- Your code will be shorter, more consistant
- Changes are easier to make in one central place
- You can even have Hibernate build your tables for you! Including
relationships and indexes!
- HQL Will let you "drop down to SQL" when the ORM entities don't seem to
be doing the job alone.

ORM is bad at:
- Learning curve. The basics are easy. Adding complexity adds er...
complexity.
- Errors that it throws are sometimes misleading and semi-nonsensical
(impacts learning curve)
- Things like Self-Joins and more advances functionality can be difficult
to figure out.

Like any tool in your programming toolbox, you have to know when to use it
and when not to.

-Cameron

-- 
Cameron Childress
--
p:   678.637.5072
im: cameroncf
facebook  |
twitter |
google+ 


~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:353353
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm

Re: Can this be improved

[Russ Michaels]

ORM should allow your app to run on any database on any platform (MySQL,
MSSQL, Oracle) without you having to change any code.
Although it doesn't cover all possible queries you may ever need to write,
you may still find some instances where ORM doesn't do what you need.


On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Bryan Stevenson <
br...@electricedgesystems.com> wrote:

>
> Hey All,
>
> I'm curious as to what is behind statements like Cameron's (not picking
> on you Cameron.just a good example of what I'm talking about)
>
> "ORM, on the other hand, makes your code WAY WAY WAY more portable, and
> (once you are past the learning curve) much faster to do development and
> easier to maintain."
>
> So what is it about ORM that makes this "WAY WAY WAY better" - defining
> "better" along the way of course ;-)
>
> I'm asking because EVERY coding efficiency anything I've ever tried
> (i.e. Ruby on Rails) turned out to be good to a point and then you're
> painted into a corner needing good old fashioned custom coding to solve
> the problem.
>
> Why is ORM (or ORM with CF) the magic bullet?  Simple real life example?
>
> Thanks in advance folks
> --
> Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
> VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
> Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. - makers of FACTS™
> phone: 250.480.0642
> cell: 250.920.8830
> e-mail: br...@electricedgesystems.com
> web: www.electricedgesystems.com and www.fisheryfacts.com
>
>
> 
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>
> -CONFIDENTIALITY--
> This message, including any attachments, is confidential and may contain
> information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure. It is intended
> only for the person to whom it is addressed unless expressly authorized
> otherwise by the sender. If you are not an authorized recipient, please
> notify the sender immediately and permanently destroy all copies of this
> message and attachments.
>
>
>
> 

~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:353351
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm

Re: Can this be improved

[Bryan Stevenson]

Hey All,

I'm curious as to what is behind statements like Cameron's (not picking
on you Cameron.just a good example of what I'm talking about)

"ORM, on the other hand, makes your code WAY WAY WAY more portable, and
(once you are past the learning curve) much faster to do development and
easier to maintain."

So what is it about ORM that makes this "WAY WAY WAY better" - defining
"better" along the way of course ;-)

I'm asking because EVERY coding efficiency anything I've ever tried
(i.e. Ruby on Rails) turned out to be good to a point and then you're
painted into a corner needing good old fashioned custom coding to solve
the problem.

Why is ORM (or ORM with CF) the magic bullet?  Simple real life example?

Thanks in advance folks
-- 
Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. - makers of FACTS™
phone: 250.480.0642
cell: 250.920.8830
e-mail: br...@electricedgesystems.com
web: www.electricedgesystems.com and www.fisheryfacts.com 




Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

-CONFIDENTIALITY--
This message, including any attachments, is confidential and may contain
information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure. It is intended
only for the person to whom it is addressed unless expressly authorized
otherwise by the sender. If you are not an authorized recipient, please
notify the sender immediately and permanently destroy all copies of this
message and attachments.



~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:353340
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm

Re: Can this be improved

[Cameron Childress]

On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Bruce Sorge  wrote:

> I did not use stored procs because I have having issues with making them
> on MySQL since I am new to the db, so I know that is one improvement that I
> could make.
>

In addition to casey's comments, I would generally say that using Stored
Procs is usually NOT an improvement. they don't usually give you a
measurable performance gain, nor a security gain. They just end up making
your code less maintainable since you have to maintain things in two places
(the DB and CF code) instead of just one place (CF code). They also make
your code less portable.

ORM, on the other hand, makes your code WAY WAY WAY more portable, and
 (once you are past the learning curve) much faster to do development and
easier to maintain.

-Cameron

-- 
Cameron Childress
--
p:   678.637.5072
im: cameroncf
facebook  |
twitter |
google+ 


~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:353336
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm

Re: Can this be improved

[Casey Dougall - Uber Website Solutions]

On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Bruce Sorge  wrote:

> Since I have been out of CF dev for several years, I thought I would work
> on some simple stuff. Looking at this code below, can this be improved?
> I am using CF 10 with MySQL backend. I did not use stored procs because I
> have having issues with making them on MySQL since I am new to the db, so I
> know that is one improvement that I could make.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce
>


I just started a new job where main things are code using ColdBox and ORM /
Hibernate which is built into cf9 and higher. It was a pain to get started
but as a whole things will move a lot smoother and allow for more
standardized code.

You should really read this book before continuing anything.

http://www.coldfusionormbook.com/


~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:353323
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm