Re: Strange error with cffeed
We just found yet another thing that can break with this patch. CFCHART rendered charts with the text WebCharts3D Invalid license until we added wc50.jar to the sandbox. The CFFEED tag requires rome-cf.jar and CFPDF requires cf-acrobat.jar. The bug relates to reading license or config files form the 3rd party jars on which certain tags are built. When they stopped CF from reading files in that folder, they also stopped it reading files in the jars in that folder. I think Adobe need to reissue a fixed patch. mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ 2009/1/21 Jochem van Dieten joch...@gmail.com: On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 8:00 AM, James Holmes wrote: We have sandboxing turned on; while just about everything works as you would expect without it, it appears that for some functionality (including cffeed) the path to [coldfusion instance]/WEB-INF/cfusion/lib needs to be added to the sandbox. That is a bug that was most likely introduced in APSB08-21: http://www.adobe.com/support/security/bulletins/apsb08-21.html ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:320157 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Strange error with cffeed
On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 8:00 AM, James Holmes wrote: We have sandboxing turned on; while just about everything works as you would expect without it, it appears that for some functionality (including cffeed) the path to [coldfusion instance]/WEB-INF/cfusion/lib needs to be added to the sandbox. That is a bug that was most likely introduced in APSB08-21: http://www.adobe.com/support/security/bulletins/apsb08-21.html What permissions did you give exactly? Was execute enough? All other permissions are potentially dangerous for the server integrity. Although since you allow Java in your Sandboxes anybody can escalate his own privileges anyway. Jochem -- Jochem van Dieten http://jochem.vandieten.net/ ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:318267 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Strange error with cffeed
I've given read and execute - I haven't tried with execute only but I will and I'll report the results. While it's quite possible to escalate privilege as you say, it's also possible we'd catch people doing this with our regular automated server checks - and I can find out where they live :-) It's one of the things we have to live with if we want to provide decent Java integration features. mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ 2009/1/21 Jochem van Dieten joch...@gmail.com: On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 8:00 AM, James Holmes wrote: We have sandboxing turned on; while just about everything works as you would expect without it, it appears that for some functionality (including cffeed) the path to [coldfusion instance]/WEB-INF/cfusion/lib needs to be added to the sandbox. That is a bug that was most likely introduced in APSB08-21: http://www.adobe.com/support/security/bulletins/apsb08-21.html What permissions did you give exactly? Was execute enough? All other permissions are potentially dangerous for the server integrity. Although since you allow Java in your Sandboxes anybody can escalate his own privileges anyway. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:318270 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Strange error with cffeed
Wow.. that's obscure. I need to bookmark this as we're moving to sandboxing in the future. Are you planning on reporting this to Adobe as a bug? Matthew Williams Geodesic GraFX ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:318203 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Strange error with cffeed
Big +1 here. Please log a bug for this (www.adobe.com/go/wish). CFFEED is a nasty beast that has had many bugs over the past. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:50 AM, Matthew Williams mai...@geodesicgrafx.com wrote: Wow.. that's obscure. I need to bookmark this as we're moving to sandboxing in the future. Are you planning on reporting this to Adobe as a bug? Matthew Williams Geodesic GraFX ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:318210 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Strange error with cffeed
Yes, I think that qualifies as a bug and I'll report it. If I were also theoretically on a beta for CF9 I'd be hypothetically testing it there too and reporting it if it still happens. Perhaps people who are in that beta can check. Jochem lists other tags that need special sandboxing - this is also worth bookmarking: http://jochem.vandieten.net/2008/09/12/coldfusion-sandboxing-and-cfreport/ mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ 2009/1/20 Matthew Williams: Wow.. that's obscure. I need to bookmark this as we're moving to sandboxing in the future. Are you planning on reporting this to Adobe as a bug? Matthew Williams Geodesic GraFX ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:318212 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Strange error with cffeed
We're facing a rebuild of every CF8 server in our fleet here - if anyone has any ideas, please, please chime in. So far I've built a new cf8.01 server with the same patches, the same FusionReactor, the same JVM and the same settings on the same OS and I can't duplicate the problem, yet every server in our existing fleet has this issue. mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ 2009/1/15 James Holmes james.hol...@gmail.com: We are having a similar issue with our CF8.01 SLES 10 servers. A windows dev box with the same config (multiserver install, Java 1.5.0_13 JVM, headless JVM switches) works fine with the same code but all of our SLES servers fail. The code is this simple: cffeed action=read source=http://askcurtin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/askcurtin.cfg/php/enduser/opensearch.php?q=bachelor; query=qryFeed It fails with java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError at coldfusion.tagext.io.FeedTag.init(FeedTag.java:64) at sun.reflect.GeneratedConstructorAccessor4006.newInstance(Unknown Source) at sun.reflect.DelegatingConstructorAccessorImpl.newInstance(DelegatingConstructorAccessorImpl.java:27) at java.lang.reflect.Constructor.newInstance(Constructor.java:494) at java.lang.Class.newInstance0(Class.java:350) ... etc ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:318189 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Strange error with cffeed
If it helps anyone, I think I've found the class that's failing: cfset myFeedTag = createobject(java,coldfusion.syndication.FeedDateParser).getInstance() This works on the Windows box and on the new SLES box; it fails on our main boxes with java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method) at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:39) at etc. mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ 2009/1/20 James Holmes james.hol...@gmail.com: We're facing a rebuild of every CF8 server in our fleet here - if anyone has any ideas, please, please chime in. So far I've built a new cf8.01 server with the same patches, the same FusionReactor, the same JVM and the same settings on the same OS and I can't duplicate the problem, yet every server in our existing fleet has this issue. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:318190 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Strange error with cffeed
James, Why are you using the 1.5 series of the JVM? Since the reinstall works, try installing the new 1.6.0_11 JVM and see if that fixes the issue? If for some reason you absolutely can not use the 1.6 version then install a second copy of the JVM you have and switch to that one. To me it sounds like a part of your JVM install got damaged or lost. Wil Genovese One man with courage makes a majority. -Andrew Jackson A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well. On Jan 19, 2009, at 9:50 PM, James Holmes wrote: If it helps anyone, I think I've found the class that's failing: cfset myFeedTag = createobject (java,coldfusion.syndication.FeedDateParser).getInstance() This works on the Windows box and on the new SLES box; it fails on our main boxes with java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method) at sun .reflect .NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:39) at etc. mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ 2009/1/20 James Holmes james.hol...@gmail.com: We're facing a rebuild of every CF8 server in our fleet here - if anyone has any ideas, please, please chime in. So far I've built a new cf8.01 server with the same patches, the same FusionReactor, the same JVM and the same settings on the same OS and I can't duplicate the problem, yet every server in our existing fleet has this issue. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:318192 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Strange error with cffeed
The 1.6 JVM breaks the SSL for the internal JRun Webserver, which we use for administration. As an aside, if anyone can tell us how to make JWS with SSL work with Java 6 we'd be very happy. Regardless, I actually did try going back to the default CF8.01 JVM with the same results. For completeness, I downloaded a fresh copy of the 1.5_13 JVM (as was just installed on the new SLES box) and pointed jrun at that - with the same results. The first time the tag is called this is the result: java.lang.NullPointerException at java.util.Properties$LineReader.readLine(Properties.java:365) at java.util.Properties.load(Properties.java:293) at com.sun.syndication.io.impl.PropertiesLoader.init(PropertiesLoader.java:67) at com.sun.syndication.io.impl.PropertiesLoader.clinit(PropertiesLoader.java:33) at com.sun.syndication.io.impl.DateParser.clinit(DateParser.java:44) at coldfusion.syndication.FeedDateParser.init(FeedDateParser.java:29) at coldfusion.syndication.FeedDateParser.clinit(FeedDateParser.java:20) at ... etc and after that the ClassDefNotFound error occurs. So it seems that the com.sun.syndication.io.impl.PropertiesLoader can't read its properties for some reason and this causes the rest of the issues. mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ 2009/1/20 Wil Genovese jugg...@visi.com: James, Why are you using the 1.5 series of the JVM? Since the reinstall works, try installing the new 1.6.0_11 JVM and see if that fixes the issue? If for some reason you absolutely can not use the 1.6 version then install a second copy of the JVM you have and switch to that one. To me it sounds like a part of your JVM install got damaged or lost. Wil Genovese One man with courage makes a majority. -Andrew Jackson A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well. On Jan 19, 2009, at 9:50 PM, James Holmes wrote: If it helps anyone, I think I've found the class that's failing: cfset myFeedTag = createobject (java,coldfusion.syndication.FeedDateParser).getInstance() This works on the Windows box and on the new SLES box; it fails on our main boxes with java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method) at sun .reflect .NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:39) at etc. mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ 2009/1/20 James Holmes james.hol...@gmail.com: We're facing a rebuild of every CF8 server in our fleet here - if anyone has any ideas, please, please chime in. So far I've built a new cf8.01 server with the same patches, the same FusionReactor, the same JVM and the same settings on the same OS and I can't duplicate the problem, yet every server in our existing fleet has this issue. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:318194 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Strange error with cffeed
You know, you might want to try copying the tools.jar file from the {currentjre}/lib folder to the /cfusion/lib folder. Until I did this, my webservice calls were all shot to hell. This may only be a problem for those that install in multiserver mode though. Maybe standalone copies the correct file here? Or maybe it pulls it from the PATH variable somehow? Either way, when I installed CF8 as an ear/war into my current environment, that was a problem for me. Matthew Williams Geodesic GraFX ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:318196 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Strange error with cffeed
Yeah, we do that as part of every standard install when we change the JVM - it's a good tip for anyone reading though. mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ 2009/1/20 Matthew Williams mai...@geodesicgrafx.com: You know, you might want to try copying the tools.jar file from the {currentjre}/lib folder to the /cfusion/lib folder. Until I did this, my webservice calls were all shot to hell. This may only be a problem for those that install in multiserver mode though. Maybe standalone copies the correct file here? Or maybe it pulls it from the PATH variable somehow? Either way, when I installed CF8 as an ear/war into my current environment, that was a problem for me. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:318198 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Strange error with cffeed
Right, I have the solution. We have sandboxing turned on; while just about everything works as you would expect without it, it appears that for some functionality (including cffeed) the path to [coldfusion instance]/WEB-INF/cfusion/lib needs to be added to the sandbox. After adding the permissions I had to restart too (to re-create the classes for the relevant pages, no doubt); just clearing the template cache didn't do the job. With this, the problem is fixed. mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ 2009/1/20 James Holmes james.hol...@gmail.com: Yeah, we do that as part of every standard install when we change the JVM - it's a good tip for anyone reading though. mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ 2009/1/20 Matthew Williams mai...@geodesicgrafx.com: You know, you might want to try copying the tools.jar file from the {currentjre}/lib folder to the /cfusion/lib folder. Until I did this, my webservice calls were all shot to hell. This may only be a problem for those that install in multiserver mode though. Maybe standalone copies the correct file here? Or maybe it pulls it from the PATH variable somehow? Either way, when I installed CF8 as an ear/war into my current environment, that was a problem for me. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:318200 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Strange error with cffeed
We are having a similar issue with our CF8.01 SLES 10 servers. A windows dev box with the same config (multiserver install, Java 1.5.0_13 JVM, headless JVM switches) works fine with the same code but all of our SLES servers fail. The code is this simple: cffeed action=read source=http://askcurtin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/askcurtin.cfg/php/enduser/opensearch.php?q=bachelor; query=qryFeed It fails with java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError at coldfusion.tagext.io.FeedTag.init(FeedTag.java:64) at sun.reflect.GeneratedConstructorAccessor4006.newInstance(Unknown Source) at sun.reflect.DelegatingConstructorAccessorImpl.newInstance(DelegatingConstructorAccessorImpl.java:27) at java.lang.reflect.Constructor.newInstance(Constructor.java:494) at java.lang.Class.newInstance0(Class.java:350) etc mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ 2008/11/19 Adrian Lynch cont...@adrianlynch.co.uk: Can you post your code? Adrian -Original Message- From: Meghna Chopra Sent: 19 November 2008 09:59 To: cf-talk Subject: Strange error with cffeed I am trying to use cffeed tag and it is giving following errors. Do you have any ideas, would be wrong? 500 ROOT CAUSE: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Could not initialize class coldfusion.syndication.FeedDateParser at coldfusion.tagext.io.FeedTag.init(FeedTag.java:64) at sun.reflect.GeneratedConstructorAccessor9646.newInstance(Unknown Source) at sun.reflect.DelegatingConstructorAccessorImpl.newInstance(DelegatingConstruc torAccessorImpl.java:27) at java.lang.reflect.Constructor.newInstance(Constructor.java:513) at java.lang.Class.newInstance0(Class.java:355) at java.lang.Class.newInstance(Class.java:308) (etc) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:317968 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Strange error with cffeed
Can you post your code? Adrian -Original Message- From: Meghna Chopra Sent: 19 November 2008 09:59 To: cf-talk Subject: Strange error with cffeed I am trying to use cffeed tag and it is giving following errors. Do you have any ideas, would be wrong? 500 ROOT CAUSE: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Could not initialize class coldfusion.syndication.FeedDateParser at coldfusion.tagext.io.FeedTag.init(FeedTag.java:64) at sun.reflect.GeneratedConstructorAccessor9646.newInstance(Unknown Source) at sun.reflect.DelegatingConstructorAccessorImpl.newInstance(DelegatingConstruc torAccessorImpl.java:27) at java.lang.reflect.Constructor.newInstance(Constructor.java:513) at java.lang.Class.newInstance0(Class.java:355) at java.lang.Class.newInstance(Class.java:308) at coldfusion.runtime.NeoPageContext$TagSet.getTagHandlerInstance(NeoPageContex t.java:2247) at coldfusion.runtime.NeoPageContext.getTagHandlerInstance(NeoPageContext.java: 2155) at coldfusion.runtime.CfJspPage._initTag(CfJspPage.java:1789) at cffeed2ecfm249880841.runPage(c:\xxx.com\feed.cfm:32) at coldfusion.runtime.CfJspPage.invoke(CfJspPage.java:196) at coldfusion.tagext.lang.IncludeTag.doStartTag(IncludeTag.java:370) at coldfusion.filter.CfincludeFilter.invoke(CfincludeFilter.java:65) at coldfusion.filter.ApplicationFilter.invoke(ApplicationFilter.java:273) at coldfusion.filter.RequestMonitorFilter.invoke(RequestMonitorFilter.java:48) at coldfusion.filter.MonitoringFilter.invoke(MonitoringFilter.java:40) at coldfusion.filter.PathFilter.invoke(PathFilter.java:86) at coldfusion.filter.ExceptionFilter.invoke(ExceptionFilter.java:70) at coldfusion.filter.ClientScopePersistenceFilter.invoke(ClientScopePersistence Filter.java:28) at coldfusion.filter.BrowserFilter.invoke(BrowserFilter.java:38) at coldfusion.filter.NoCacheFilter.invoke(NoCacheFilter.java:46) at coldfusion.filter.GlobalsFilter.invoke(GlobalsFilter.java:38) at coldfusion.filter.DatasourceFilter.invoke(DatasourceFilter.java:22) at coldfusion.CfmServlet.service(CfmServlet.java:175) at coldfusion.bootstrap.BootstrapServlet.service(BootstrapServlet.java:89) at jrun.servlet.FilterChain.doFilter(FilterChain.java:86) at coldfusion.monitor.event.MonitoringServletFilter.doFilter(MonitoringServletF ilter.java:42) at coldfusion.bootstrap.BootstrapFilter.doFilter(BootstrapFilter.java:46) at jrun.servlet.FilterChain.doFilter(FilterChain.java:94) at jrun.servlet.FilterChain.service(FilterChain.java:101) at jrun.servlet.ServletInvoker.invoke(ServletInvoker.java:106) at jrun.servlet.JRunInvokerChain.invokeNext(JRunInvokerChain.java:42) at jrun.servlet.JRunRequestDispatcher.invoke(JRunRequestDispatcher.java:286) at jrun.servlet.ServletEngineService.dispatch(ServletEngineService.java:543) at jrun.servlet.jrpp.JRunProxyService.invokeRunnable(JRunProxyService.java:203) at jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool$DownstreamMetrics.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java: 320) at jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool$ThreadThrottle.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java:428 ) at jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool$UpstreamMetrics.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java:26 6) at jrunx.scheduler.WorkerThread.run(WorkerThread.java:66) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:315526 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4