Re: ooa, ood, oop and design patterns
As Joe points out CFCDev is the happy-joy-land in terms of this subject, - be warned stay on topic - as i'm popping in / out of this list a lot over the years and see quite a lot of bantering/thread hijacking/flaming etc back and forth (more power to the list i guess we are all stressed hehehe) but i like CFCDev for staying ontopic 99.9% of the time - which is a good trait. That being said, creating lists such as the ones you outlined would be to fragemented in my opinion, i'd like to see it more consolidated to a list like CFCDev where patterns and all that which is OO goodness is given a healthy kick. Over the past few months, a lot of us i guess have gotten love stricken with the concepts of DAO/DG/Managers/Mach-II/Beans-OR-BusinessObjects/Factory Patterns and what not.. i myself went a bit pattern frenzy but thats cool as it opens up to possibilities of how to architect now vs just code. I wish more people would create blogs on the very subject and air there thoughts as its been sucessful for devs like Joe, Matt and many many others (myself included) to bare ones soul about their knowledge/learning experience on OO development with CFMX. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com http://www.flexcoder.com (Coming Soon) ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:200928 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: ooa, ood, oop and design patterns
Always nice to see a new comrade crawl out of the woodwork. :) I have to say, though, I'm kind of conflicted over the idea of adding lists to the array of available choices... (CF is leaking into my conversational speech... ugh.) Anyway... I tend to think that more choice is a good thing. I also tend to think that fragmentation is bad. I can understand the thought process on both sides of the issue. I thought, a while back when it came up, that a CF-OOP list here at HoF would't be a bad idea. I'm still not sure it IS a bad idea. I'm already on 4 HoF lists, and it's sort of the global CF mailing list clearinghouse. I do, completely understand the arguments against it, though... CFCDev is out there. While it may not be as heavily trafficked as the HoF lists, it does its job. I dunno... I tend to think that archtecture (systems), design (components/patterns), and development (code) are all different enough that it warrants separate containers for discussion. What's not OT in the design category is conceivably entirely OT in the architecture category. I know they're all related, and indeed I can see value in crossover conversations between them. I still tend to think it may not be a bad idea to have some more options. Something to think about, anyway... Laterz, J On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:22:07 +1000, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As Joe points out CFCDev is the happy-joy-land in terms of this subject, - be warned stay on topic - as i'm popping in / out of this list a lot over the years and see quite a lot of bantering/thread hijacking/flaming etc back and forth (more power to the list i guess we are all stressed hehehe) but i like CFCDev for staying ontopic 99.9% of the time - which is a good trait. That being said, creating lists such as the ones you outlined would be to fragemented in my opinion, i'd like to see it more consolidated to a list like CFCDev where patterns and all that which is OO goodness is given a healthy kick. Over the past few months, a lot of us i guess have gotten love stricken with the concepts of DAO/DG/Managers/Mach-II/Beans-OR-BusinessObjects/Factory Patterns and what not.. i myself went a bit pattern frenzy but thats cool as it opens up to possibilities of how to architect now vs just code. I wish more people would create blogs on the very subject and air there thoughts as its been sucessful for devs like Joe, Matt and many many others (myself included) to bare ones soul about their knowledge/learning experience on OO development with CFMX. -- Regards, Scott Barnes -- Continuum Media Group LLC Burnsville, MN 55337 http://www.web-relevant.com http://www.web-relevant.com/blogs/cfobjective ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:200934 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: ooa, ood, oop and design patterns
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 05:52:31 -0600, Jared Rypka-Hauer - CMG, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Always nice to see a new comrade crawl out of the woodwork. :) heh yeah, I decided to jump into ol CF-Talk and poke around... (hope I'm not spamming all too much). I have to say, though, I'm kind of conflicted over the idea of adding lists to the array of available choices... (CF is leaking into my conversational speech... ugh.) Try to de-reference your speech patterns, as that tends to clear up memory leaks...heh.. [snip] I still tend to think it may not be a bad idea to have some more options. Ok you beat me down, lets make some more lists heh. I guess in the end more talk wherever it may live on more higher level OO can be a good thing - yet it can also be a bad thing. Lets not forget that sometimes things can be echoed online and the next thing you know, you have disciples making human sacrafices in the way of which a belief has been poured out. I can recall a few times Mr Corfield has mentioned something casually and the next thing you know theres a Development Guidelines being devoted to the scriptures of that which is Sean. At anyrate, I'm all for it, I do enjoy talking about architecture i'm hooked on the very subject and will happilly debate someone to death if need be in order to appreciate certain approaches to a task. I was once told that CF 5.0 was a free bus ride, and then when CF 6.0 came out, we were all told to get off and walk...some are still stuck on the bus, wondering why its not going forward while others are not only walking but lost in the desert hoping someone can help them navigate back to civilization. ok analogy lost me at first but i think it means, we are all scattered amongst the desert of that which is OO land and each of us tend to various backrounds in OOP or other, but CFMX is weird and needs to be attacked differently to most traditional OOP. i'm ranting..yes lets make the lists, let us know who ever starts them and where i can subscribe my gmail / label / filter to -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com http://www.flexcoder.com (Coming Soon) ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:200939 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: ooa, ood, oop and design patterns
Scott, Everyone points you to CFCDev for CF OOP and it is an interesting list. I subscribed for a while before they dropped digest mode. But CFCDev is high on OOP theory with great debates of different theoretical approaches. What might be nice is a list aimed at practical implementation as opposed to theory. A list targetted for those who want to be in the mainstream of CF OOP, not the bleeding edge. I am not knocking CFCDev, there's room for both actually. Rick Mason On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:22:46 +1000, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 05:52:31 -0600, Jared Rypka-Hauer - CMG, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Always nice to see a new comrade crawl out of the woodwork. :) heh yeah, I decided to jump into ol CF-Talk and poke around... (hope I'm not spamming all too much). I have to say, though, I'm kind of conflicted over the idea of adding lists to the array of available choices... (CF is leaking into my conversational speech... ugh.) Try to de-reference your speech patterns, as that tends to clear up memory leaks...heh.. [snip] I still tend to think it may not be a bad idea to have some more options. Ok you beat me down, lets make some more lists heh. I guess in the end more talk wherever it may live on more higher level OO can be a good thing - yet it can also be a bad thing. Lets not forget that sometimes things can be echoed online and the next thing you know, you have disciples making human sacrafices in the way of which a belief has been poured out. I can recall a few times Mr Corfield has mentioned something casually and the next thing you know theres a Development Guidelines being devoted to the scriptures of that which is Sean. At anyrate, I'm all for it, I do enjoy talking about architecture i'm hooked on the very subject and will happilly debate someone to death if need be in order to appreciate certain approaches to a task. I was once told that CF 5.0 was a free bus ride, and then when CF 6.0 came out, we were all told to get off and walk...some are still stuck on the bus, wondering why its not going forward while others are not only walking but lost in the desert hoping someone can help them navigate back to civilization. ok analogy lost me at first but i think it means, we are all scattered amongst the desert of that which is OO land and each of us tend to various backrounds in OOP or other, but CFMX is weird and needs to be attacked differently to most traditional OOP. i'm ranting..yes lets make the lists, let us know who ever starts them and where i can subscribe my gmail / label / filter to -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com http://www.flexcoder.com (Coming Soon) ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201020 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: ooa, ood, oop and design patterns
I do not reall see why the CFCDev list could not have both on it, it is CFCDev is a listserv for the discussion of all things CFC after all which to me means it is not even solely about OO and so on. Just a matter of people being on it and posting about the none bleeding edge. I am on it but tend to archive it a lot more than read it, so maybe there actually is a lot of none bleeding edge being discussed on there. All of the theoretical approaches is what caused me to get into archive mode with it. More so because I lack the time right now to try and follow what they are debating back and forth. On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:24:08 -0500, Rick Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, Everyone points you to CFCDev for CF OOP and it is an interesting list. I subscribed for a while before they dropped digest mode. But CFCDev is high on OOP theory with great debates of different theoretical approaches. What might be nice is a list aimed at practical implementation as opposed to theory. A list targetted for those who want to be in the mainstream of CF OOP, not the bleeding edge. I am not knocking CFCDev, there's room for both actually. Rick Mason On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:22:46 +1000, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 05:52:31 -0600, Jared Rypka-Hauer - CMG, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Always nice to see a new comrade crawl out of the woodwork. :) heh yeah, I decided to jump into ol CF-Talk and poke around... (hope I'm not spamming all too much). I have to say, though, I'm kind of conflicted over the idea of adding lists to the array of available choices... (CF is leaking into my conversational speech... ugh.) Try to de-reference your speech patterns, as that tends to clear up memory leaks...heh.. [snip] I still tend to think it may not be a bad idea to have some more options. Ok you beat me down, lets make some more lists heh. I guess in the end more talk wherever it may live on more higher level OO can be a good thing - yet it can also be a bad thing. Lets not forget that sometimes things can be echoed online and the next thing you know, you have disciples making human sacrafices in the way of which a belief has been poured out. I can recall a few times Mr Corfield has mentioned something casually and the next thing you know theres a Development Guidelines being devoted to the scriptures of that which is Sean. At anyrate, I'm all for it, I do enjoy talking about architecture i'm hooked on the very subject and will happilly debate someone to death if need be in order to appreciate certain approaches to a task. I was once told that CF 5.0 was a free bus ride, and then when CF 6.0 came out, we were all told to get off and walk...some are still stuck on the bus, wondering why its not going forward while others are not only walking but lost in the desert hoping someone can help them navigate back to civilization. ok analogy lost me at first but i think it means, we are all scattered amongst the desert of that which is OO land and each of us tend to various backrounds in OOP or other, but CFMX is weird and needs to be attacked differently to most traditional OOP. i'm ranting..yes lets make the lists, let us know who ever starts them and where i can subscribe my gmail / label / filter to -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com http://www.flexcoder.com (Coming Soon) ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:201026 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: ooa, ood, oop and design patterns
Aye i won't be the ruler of of thine list creation policies, if everyone feels strongly about it then i'll happily put my email addy in the subscript of wherever it may lie. I simply think that consolidating into an area such as CFC which even in OOP theory has lots of relivance would make more sense. The key issue here is, you kind of want to leveridge people who are subscribed so that if you shoot of a problem, you get answers by some fairly qualified person(s). If you go about the approach to start a new list, then you also run the risk of your population being of limited value and experience. Its kind of like starting an IRC channel, you sit in a popular one and decide hmmm the topic could be more focused, lets create a new channel! so off you go, and do so. Yet people aren't really moving from the previous one are they? sure some folk who are curious will pop in to see whats up and stay awhile but if the overall topics aren't of interest or have no real value to them, they part. CFCDev is an established - well respected - mailing list and i for on enjoy 90% of all topics posted there. Thats my 2c on the subject and its why i chose to make the opinion lets not fragement our mailing lits for the sake of categories On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:35:37 -0600, Aaron Rouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not reall see why the CFCDev list could not have both on it, it is CFCDev is a listserv for the discussion of all things CFC after all which to me means it is not even solely about OO and so on. Just a matter of people being on it and posting about the none bleeding edge. I am on it but tend to archive it a lot more than read it, so maybe there actually is a lot of none bleeding edge being discussed on there. All of the theoretical approaches is what caused me to get into archive mode with it. More so because I lack the time right now to try and follow what they are debating back and forth. On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:24:08 -0500, Rick Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, Everyone points you to CFCDev for CF OOP and it is an interesting list. I subscribed for a while before they dropped digest mode. But CFCDev is high on OOP theory with great debates of different theoretical approaches. What might be nice is a list aimed at practical implementation as opposed to theory. A list targetted for those who want to be in the mainstream of CF OOP, not the bleeding edge. I am not knocking CFCDev, there's room for both actually. Rick Mason On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:22:46 +1000, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 05:52:31 -0600, Jared Rypka-Hauer - CMG, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Always nice to see a new comrade crawl out of the woodwork. :) heh yeah, I decided to jump into ol CF-Talk and poke around... (hope I'm not spamming all too much). I have to say, though, I'm kind of conflicted over the idea of adding lists to the array of available choices... (CF is leaking into my conversational speech... ugh.) Try to de-reference your speech patterns, as that tends to clear up memory leaks...heh.. [snip] I still tend to think it may not be a bad idea to have some more options. Ok you beat me down, lets make some more lists heh. I guess in the end more talk wherever it may live on more higher level OO can be a good thing - yet it can also be a bad thing. Lets not forget that sometimes things can be echoed online and the next thing you know, you have disciples making human sacrafices in the way of which a belief has been poured out. I can recall a few times Mr Corfield has mentioned something casually and the next thing you know theres a Development Guidelines being devoted to the scriptures of that which is Sean. At anyrate, I'm all for it, I do enjoy talking about architecture i'm hooked on the very subject and will happilly debate someone to death if need be in order to appreciate certain approaches to a task. I was once told that CF 5.0 was a free bus ride, and then when CF 6.0 came out, we were all told to get off and walk...some are still stuck on the bus, wondering why its not going forward while others are not only walking but lost in the desert hoping someone can help them navigate back to civilization. ok analogy lost me at first but i think it means, we are all scattered amongst the desert of that which is OO land and each of us tend to various backrounds in OOP or other, but CFMX is weird and needs to be attacked differently to most traditional OOP. i'm ranting..yes lets make the lists, let us know who ever starts them and where i can subscribe my gmail / label / filter to -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com http://www.flexcoder.com (Coming Soon) ~| Discover CFTicket - The
Re: ooa, ood, oop and design patterns
Hey Brian, You may want to check out the CFCDev list - http://www.cfczone.org/listserv.cfm . It's not as heavily trafficed as this one, but there are some heavy OO conversations there from time to time. The Mach-II and Tartan mailing lists can also be interesting. -Joe -- Get Glued! The Model-Glue ColdFusion Framework http://www.model-glue.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:200326 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: ooa, ood, oop and design patterns
thanks joe - will check it out. btw, your blog has been a great resource. greatly admire your insight. i have been long silent in the community, but hope to contribute more going forward (as i can - you know how that goes). kudos on model-glue! brian ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:200331 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: ooa, ood, oop and design patterns
Of course the best way to grow the OO awareness is to talk about the challenges and solutions in the more widely lists, such as this one, especially as the topic is definitely relevant and interesting :) - Calvin -Original Message- From: Brian Holder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 6:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: ooa, ood, oop and design patterns thanks joe - will check it out. btw, your blog has been a great resource. greatly admire your insight. i have been long silent in the community, but hope to contribute more going forward (as i can - you know how that goes). kudos on model-glue! brian ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:200334 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
