Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
Hello Everyone, Can I get everyones opinion on something here... Here at the University, student workers make no more than $6.00/hour regardless of type of work. What do you think is a fair wage for someone who learns Cold Fusion on the job and applies it at their job on a daily basis. Also, what do you think a fair wage is for someone who trains staff on basic CF, SQL, and server management stuff? Right now I work about 25 hours a week at $6/hr and take 18 credit load semester and am frankly working to change a few things, but I need some numbers to back me up so I am looking for any averages or thoughts you have. Thanks, Mike PS--- Sorry for the off topic post on CF-Talk. __ Dedicated Windows 2000 Server PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusiona FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
Uni jobs are the pits. They don't distinguish between people who run the registers at the bookstore and the people who do system maintenance, networking, and programming. Moreover, you WILL NOT be able to change the uni pay scale, etc., I guarantee it. The difference is, when you're done school, you will have N years of experience on your resume as having done Cold Fusion development, and the other people will have N years on their resumes that they worked a cash register in a retail setting. Where would you rather be? With that said, when I was starting out oh so many years ago (1994), I had to intern FOR FREE to get some commercial web experience on my resume. Nowadays, there are a good number of companies that will hire college student/interns for a pretty decent wage ($12/hr if memory serves), as long as they have experience. Maybe you need to look beyond the confines of the campus? Apart from that, there's always the independent route, just go out and find your own clients, that's what I did when I was in school, I had a full load plus worked 30 hours a week at $25/hr doing design and development work. Good luck, and remember, nothing is forever. Pete __ Dedicated Windows 2000 Server PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusiona FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
If you don't like it quit. Why do you have to work at the university? On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: Hello Everyone, Can I get everyones opinion on something here... Here at the University, student workers make no more than $6.00/hour regardless of type of work. What do you think is a fair wage for someone who learns Cold Fusion on the job and applies it at their job on a daily basis. Also, what do you think a fair wage is for someone who trains staff on basic CF, SQL, and server management stuff? Right now I work about 25 hours a week at $6/hr and take 18 credit load semester and am frankly working to change a few things, but I need some numbers to back me up so I am looking for any averages or thoughts you have. Thanks, Mike PS--- Sorry for the off topic post on CF-Talk. __ Get Your Own Dedicated Windows 2000 Server PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusionb FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
wow 18 creds and 25 hours/week of admin work? don't know how you're do in it but good luck. Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 01/29/2002 08:50:23 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees If you don't like it quit. Why do you have to work at the university? On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: Hello Everyone, Can I get everyones opinion on something here... Here at the University, student workers make no more than $6.00/hou r regardless of type of work. What do you think is a fair wage for so meone who learns Cold Fusion on the job and applies it at their job on a da ily basis. Also, what do you think a fair wage is for someone who train s staff on basic CF, SQL, and server management stuff? Right now I work about 25 hours a week at $6/hr and take 18 credit load semester.. . and am frankly working to change a few things, but I need some numbers to back me up so I am looking for any averages or thoughts you have. Thanks, Mike PS--- Sorry for the off topic post on CF-Talk. __ Why Share? Dedicated Win 2000 Server · PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusionc FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
Fair can only be defined by your experience level, the quality of your work, and costs of living. When I was in college, I worked for minimum wage ($5.25 an hour at that point, I believe). That's how it is in college - you work dirt cheap. Typically wages are determined by the higher-ups in the school (Dean level or higher). I seriously doubt they'll be swayed by some mailing list that the public can contribute to. If it weren't for poor college students, would they bring in someone at full price? I doubt it. Also, suck it up and ignore the $$ factor: you're in college, and unless you had significant experience before school, the college job is your best shot at getting experience. You need the experience far more than you need the $$$; consider that unless things improve dramatically, when you graduate, you'll be competing with developers with years of *real-world* experience. Considering the state of the economy, I know many developers who'd be happy to make what you're making - $6/hour beats being unemployed. I would suggest that we all take a look at the CF-Talk guidelines (http://www.houseoffusion.com/hof/lists/faq.htm). Keep in mind that discussion of prices among peers in a public forum constitutes price fixing - this places the operators of this list (Dinowitz and company) at risk. - Original Message - From: Michael T. Tangorre [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:11 AM Subject: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees Hello Everyone, Can I get everyones opinion on something here... Here at the University, student workers make no more than $6.00/hour regardless of type of work. What do you think is a fair wage for someone who learns Cold Fusion on the job and applies it at their job on a daily basis. Also, what do you think a fair wage is for someone who trains staff on basic CF, SQL, and server management stuff? Right now I work about 25 hours a week at $6/hr and take 18 credit load semester and am frankly working to change a few things, but I need some numbers to back me up so I am looking for any averages or thoughts you have. Thanks, Mike PS--- Sorry for the off topic post on CF-Talk. __ Dedicated Windows 2000 Server PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusiona FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
Well alot depends on how much CF you have learned and what level of CF you are using (i.e. just outputting data or full blown web applications). That said either way $6.00/hr. is a major kick in the pants (especially if you are training people as well). Now I'm in Canada, so our rates are probably different, but from what I've heard most US rates are higher than those in Canada (and I'm not just talking exchange rate). We typically hire a junior developer for about $20-$25/hr CDN for their first project or 2if they pan out then we go up from there topping out aroun $65/hr. CDN HTH Bryan Stevenson VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Original Message - From: Michael T. Tangorre [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 4:11 AM Subject: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees Hello Everyone, Can I get everyones opinion on something here... Here at the University, student workers make no more than $6.00/hour regardless of type of work. What do you think is a fair wage for someone who learns Cold Fusion on the job and applies it at their job on a daily basis. Also, what do you think a fair wage is for someone who trains staff on basic CF, SQL, and server management stuff? Right now I work about 25 hours a week at $6/hr and take 18 credit load semester and am frankly working to change a few things, but I need some numbers to back me up so I am looking for any averages or thoughts you have. Thanks, Mike PS--- Sorry for the off topic post on CF-Talk. __ Why Share? Dedicated Win 2000 Server · PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusionc FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
I'll have to update that. There have been many conversations on what constitutes price fixing in the past and what doesn't. If we tell him that he has to charge X amount because everyone else does, then that's price fixing. If we make general statements like you can get more or a jobs a job or I make X but I'm not you, then we're safe. The laws on this are very convoluted but the chance of being caught in them are really slim, especially in this market. We have maybe 5000 readers all together using different means. There's at least 10 times that many CF programmers. If I say everyone should be charging $100/hour, it's not affecting more than 10% and that's only if everyone listens. In truth, less than 1% would listen and that goes no where near price fixing. But again, this is OT for CF-Talk. You might want to move this to the new [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. It was set up for just these sort of things. You can subscribe by sending a subscribe request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTW, That list was set up to separate the job posts and requests of CF-Jobs from the job related banter. There has been a nice upswing in job offers on that list and hopefully there will be more. I would suggest that we all take a look at the CF-Talk guidelines (http://www.houseoffusion.com/hof/lists/faq.htm). Keep in mind that discussion of prices among peers in a public forum constitutes price fixing - this places the operators of this list (Dinowitz and company) at risk. - Original Message - From: Michael T. Tangorre [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:11 AM Subject: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees Hello Everyone, Can I get everyones opinion on something here... Here at the University, student workers make no more than $6.00/hour regardless of type of work. What do you think is a fair wage for someone who learns Cold Fusion on the job and applies it at their job on a daily basis. Also, what do you think a fair wage is for someone who trains staff on basic CF, SQL, and server management stuff? Right now I work about 25 hours a week at $6/hr and take 18 credit load semester and am frankly working to change a few things, but I need some numbers to back me up so I am looking for any averages or thoughts you have. Thanks, Mike PS--- Sorry for the off topic post on CF-Talk. __ Why Share? Dedicated Win 2000 Server · PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusionc FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
Id rather attempt to get a new pay rate than to just quit..its easy to quit, its not as easy to get what you believe in... it takes work, that is why I polled the list for thoughts on rates. - Original Message - From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:50 AM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees If you don't like it quit. Why do you have to work at the university? On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: Hello Everyone, Can I get everyones opinion on something here... Here at the University, student workers make no more than $6.00/hour regardless of type of work. What do you think is a fair wage for someone who learns Cold Fusion on the job and applies it at their job on a daily basis. Also, what do you think a fair wage is for someone who trains staff on basic CF, SQL, and server management stuff? Right now I work about 25 hours a week at $6/hr and take 18 credit load semester and am frankly working to change a few things, but I need some numbers to back me up so I am looking for any averages or thoughts you have. Thanks, Mike PS--- Sorry for the off topic post on CF-Talk. __ Why Share? Dedicated Win 2000 Server · PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusionc FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
Yes, it's easy to quit and get a job that pays at the very least 3 times as much. You are worth what you are paid. You being paid $6/hr tells future employers that you are inexperienced, desperate, or easily taken advantage of. On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: Id rather attempt to get a new pay rate than to just quit..its easy to qu it, its not as easy to get what you believe in... it takes work, that is why I polled the list for thoughts on rates. - Original Message - From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:50 AM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees If you don't like it quit. Why do you have to work at the university? On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: Hello Everyone, Can I get everyones opinion on something here... Here at the University, student workers make no more than $6.00/hour regardless of type of work. What do you think is a fair wage for some one who learns Cold Fusion on the job and applies it at their job on a da ily basis. Also, what do you think a fair wage is for someone who trains staff on basic CF, SQL, and server management stuff? Right now I work about 25 hours a week at $6/hr and take 18 credit load semester a nd am frankly working to change a few things, but I need some numbers to back me up so I am looking for any averages or thoughts you have. Thanks, Mike PS--- Sorry for the off topic post on CF-Talk. __ Dedicated Windows 2000 Server PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusiona FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
good point... but this job is a great reference for me.. in your opinion, how does that play in? I have had 2 great intenrships..one in DC and one in NYC that both paid $25/hr. Thsoe we each summer jobs, this webteam job has been mine for 4 years..what if I lose the reference? Im new to the finding a full time job game :-) so any advice is greatly appreciated. - Original Message - From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:49 PM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees Yes, it's easy to quit and get a job that pays at the very least 3 times as much. You are worth what you are paid. You being paid $6/hr tells future employers that you are inexperienced, desperate, or easily taken advantage of. On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: Id rather attempt to get a new pay rate than to just quit..its easy to qu it, its not as easy to get what you believe in... it takes work, that is why I polled the list for thoughts on rates. - Original Message - From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:50 AM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees If you don't like it quit. Why do you have to work at the university? On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: Hello Everyone, Can I get everyones opinion on something here... Here at the University, student workers make no more than $6.00/hour regardless of type of work. What do you think is a fair wage for some one who learns Cold Fusion on the job and applies it at their job on a da ily basis. Also, what do you think a fair wage is for someone who trains staff on basic CF, SQL, and server management stuff? Right now I work about 25 hours a week at $6/hr and take 18 credit load semester a nd am frankly working to change a few things, but I need some numbers to back me up so I am looking for any averages or thoughts you have. Thanks, Mike PS--- Sorry for the off topic post on CF-Talk. __ Dedicated Windows 2000 Server PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusiona FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
There's no point in getting paid less than you're worth. References are anyone you know who knows your work/you've worked with in a professional setting. Don't get hung up on them, especially for $6/hr. For that money, you could work in a record store and have a helluva lot more fun! - Original Message - From: Michael T. Tangorre [EMAIL PROTECTED] good point... but this job is a great reference for me.. in your opinion, how does that play in? I have had 2 great intenrships..one in DC and one in NYC that both paid $25/hr. Thsoe we each summer jobs, this webteam job has been mine for 4 years..what if I lose the reference? Im new to the finding a full time job game :-) so any advice is greatly appreciated. __ Dedicated Windows 2000 Server PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusiona FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
You quit a job not a reference. Hey, send in some UDFs to cflib.org if they are usable I am sure anyone who uses them could be your reference. On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: good point... but this job is a great reference for me.. in your opinion, how does that play in? I have had 2 great intenrships..one in DC and one in NYC that both paid $25/hr. Thsoe we each summer jobs, this webteam job has been mine for 4 years..wh at if I lose the reference? Im new to the finding a full time job game :- ) so any advice is greatly appreciated. - Original Message - From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:49 PM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees Yes, it's easy to quit and get a job that pays at the very least 3 time s as much. You are worth what you are paid. You being paid $6/hr tells future employers that you are inexperienced, desperate, or easily taken advantage of. On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: Id rather attempt to get a new pay rate than to just quit..its easy t o qu it, its not as easy to get what you believe in... it takes work, that is why I polled the list for thoughts on rates. - Original Message - From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:50 AM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees If you don't like it quit. Why do you have to work at the universit y? On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: Hello Everyone, Can I get everyones opinion on something here... Here at the University, student workers make no more than $6.00/h our regardless of type of work. What do you think is a fair wage for some one who learns Cold Fusion on the job and applies it at their job on a da ily basis. Also, what do you think a fair wage is for someone who tra ins staff on basic CF, SQL, and server management stuff? Right now I work about 25 hours a week at $6/hr and take 18 credit load semester.. . a nd am frankly working to change a few things, but I need some number s to back me up so I am looking for any averages or thoughts you have. Thanks, Mike PS--- Sorry for the off topic post on CF-Talk. __ Why Share? Dedicated Win 2000 Server · PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusionc FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
Yeah, but it's pretty hard to do that and maintain an 18 hour load in school (if you were lucky enough to find a place that would hire a full-time college student and pay them market) Also, there's something to be said for sticking it out - it's by no means a rule, but some companies don't like job hoppers (even though the situation was well justified - some hiring manager are too dense to see between the lines of your resume) - Original Message - From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 11:49 AM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees Yes, it's easy to quit and get a job that pays at the very least 3 times as much. You are worth what you are paid. You being paid $6/hr tells future employers that you are inexperienced, desperate, or easily taken advantage of. On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: Id rather attempt to get a new pay rate than to just quit..its easy to qu it, its not as easy to get what you believe in... it takes work, that is why I polled the list for thoughts on rates. - Original Message - From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:50 AM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees If you don't like it quit. Why do you have to work at the university? On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: Hello Everyone, Can I get everyones opinion on something here... Here at the University, student workers make no more than $6.00/hour regardless of type of work. What do you think is a fair wage for some one who learns Cold Fusion on the job and applies it at their job on a da ily basis. Also, what do you think a fair wage is for someone who trains staff on basic CF, SQL, and server management stuff? Right now I work about 25 hours a week at $6/hr and take 18 credit load semester a nd am frankly working to change a few things, but I need some numbers to back me up so I am looking for any averages or thoughts you have. Thanks, Mike PS--- Sorry for the off topic post on CF-Talk. __ Dedicated Windows 2000 Server PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusiona FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
I'd agree. It sounds like a decent gig for college (I would have loved this when I was in school, far more than working for a record store or any other typical college job). However, you might want to look to some other resources - economics for a student working for the college are significantly different than a seasoned developer working in the private sector. I think the closest match would be the non-profit market sector. - Original Message - From: Michael T. Tangorre [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees Id rather attempt to get a new pay rate than to just quit..its easy to quit, its not as easy to get what you believe in... it takes work, that is why I polled the list for thoughts on rates. - Original Message - From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:50 AM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees If you don't like it quit. Why do you have to work at the university? On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: Hello Everyone, Can I get everyones opinion on something here... Here at the University, student workers make no more than $6.00/hour regardless of type of work. What do you think is a fair wage for someone who learns Cold Fusion on the job and applies it at their job on a daily basis. Also, what do you think a fair wage is for someone who trains staff on basic CF, SQL, and server management stuff? Right now I work about 25 hours a week at $6/hr and take 18 credit load semester and am frankly working to change a few things, but I need some numbers to back me up so I am looking for any averages or thoughts you have. Thanks, Mike PS--- Sorry for the off topic post on CF-Talk. __ Get Your Own Dedicated Windows 2000 Server PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusionb FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
Are you willing to leave school to do that? Plus, internships usually come out of special budgets. My experience has shown that internships are more like contract positions than full-time in terms of rate. Not to mention the fact that internships are for college students only - otherwise, you're competing with the world (and right now, I know alot of top-notch programmers out of work) - Original Message - From: Michael T. Tangorre [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:16 PM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees good point... but this job is a great reference for me.. in your opinion, how does that play in? I have had 2 great intenrships..one in DC and one in NYC that both paid $25/hr. Thsoe we each summer jobs, this webteam job has been mine for 4 years..what if I lose the reference? Im new to the finding a full time job game :-) so any advice is greatly appreciated. - Original Message - From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:49 PM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees Yes, it's easy to quit and get a job that pays at the very least 3 times as much. You are worth what you are paid. You being paid $6/hr tells future employers that you are inexperienced, desperate, or easily taken advantage of. On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: Id rather attempt to get a new pay rate than to just quit..its easy to qu it, its not as easy to get what you believe in... it takes work, that is why I polled the list for thoughts on rates. - Original Message - From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:50 AM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees If you don't like it quit. Why do you have to work at the university? On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael T. Tangorre wrote: Hello Everyone, Can I get everyones opinion on something here... Here at the University, student workers make no more than $6.00/hour regardless of type of work. What do you think is a fair wage for some one who learns Cold Fusion on the job and applies it at their job on a da ily basis. Also, what do you think a fair wage is for someone who trains staff on basic CF, SQL, and server management stuff? Right now I work about 25 hours a week at $6/hr and take 18 credit load semester a nd am frankly working to change a few things, but I need some numbers to back me up so I am looking for any averages or thoughts you have. Thanks, Mike PS--- Sorry for the off topic post on CF-Talk. __ Why Share? Dedicated Win 2000 Server · PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusionc FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
I agree - but what a seasoned, full-time (40 hours if you're lucky, probably more) developer is worth is not the same as what a college student taking an 18 hour semester load is worth - totally different set of dynamics - Original Message - From: Kreig Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees There's no point in getting paid less than you're worth. References are anyone you know who knows your work/you've worked with in a professional setting. Don't get hung up on them, especially for $6/hr. For that money, you could work in a record store and have a helluva lot more fun! - Original Message - From: Michael T. Tangorre [EMAIL PROTECTED] good point... but this job is a great reference for me.. in your opinion, how does that play in? I have had 2 great intenrships..one in DC and one in NYC that both paid $25/hr. Thsoe we each summer jobs, this webteam job has been mine for 4 years..what if I lose the reference? Im new to the finding a full time job game :-) so any advice is greatly appreciated. __ Get Your Own Dedicated Windows 2000 Server PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusionb FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees - FINISHED
Tanks All for your help. My apologies for cluttering up anyone's box that did not really want these messages, but please note, the responses were great. Thanks, Mike PS --- If anyone wants to discuss this further off list, please feel free to email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I sure could use more insight. - Original Message - From: Billy Cravens [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 3:17 PM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees I agree - but what a seasoned, full-time (40 hours if you're lucky, probably more) developer is worth is not the same as what a college student taking an 18 hour semester load is worth - totally different set of dynamics - Original Message - From: Kreig Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees There's no point in getting paid less than you're worth. References are anyone you know who knows your work/you've worked with in a professional setting. Don't get hung up on them, especially for $6/hr. For that money, you could work in a record store and have a helluva lot more fun! - Original Message - From: Michael T. Tangorre [EMAIL PROTECTED] good point... but this job is a great reference for me.. in your opinion, how does that play in? I have had 2 great intenrships..one in DC and one in NYC that both paid $25/hr. Thsoe we each summer jobs, this webteam job has been mine for 4 years..what if I lose the reference? Im new to the finding a full time job game :-) so any advice is greatly appreciated. __ Get Your Own Dedicated Windows 2000 Server PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusionb FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
He asked about his wage relative to the market. And he is vastly underpaid. If he wants to stay with the university try to get an internship with a computer scientist, mathematicain, or engineer and learn some theory and research methods. What you learn from them would outlast your CF knowledge. On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Billy Cravens wrote: I agree - but what a seasoned, full-time (40 hours if you're lucky, proba bly more) developer is worth is not the same as what a college student taking an 18 hour semester load is worth - totally different set of dynamics - Original Message - From: Kreig Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees There's no point in getting paid less than you're worth. References are anyone you know who knows your work/you've worked with i n a professional setting. Don't get hung up on them, especially for $6/hr. For that money, you could work in a record store and have a helluva lot more fun! - Original Message - From: Michael T. Tangorre [EMAIL PROTECTED] good point... but this job is a great reference for me.. in your opinion, how does that play in? I have had 2 great intenrships..one in DC and one in NYC that both pa id $25/hr. Thsoe we each summer jobs, this webteam job has been mine for 4 years..what if I lose the reference? Im new to the finding a full time job game :-) so any advice is greatly appreciated. __ Why Share? Dedicated Win 2000 Server · PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusionc FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Slightly OT - CF and Developers Fees
One important consideration of a job with the University at which you study - they generally are very understanding about classes and time needed to attend them. Unless you work for yourself, this isn't always the case with an employer, particularly one who is paying market value for your services. --JW Id rather attempt to get a new pay rate than to just quit..its easy to quit, its not as easy to get what you believe in... it takes work, that is why I __ Dedicated Windows 2000 Server PIII 800 / 256 MB RAM / 40 GB HD / 20 GB MO/XFER Instant Activation · $99/Month · Free Setup http://www.pennyhost.com/redirect.cfm?adcode=coldfusiona FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
