[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Gary Barber]

Would I recommend Coldfusion to someone new in the industry, well 
frankly no. Realistically it has no future (puts on flame proof suit). 
So what can you do about it.

DON"T be complacent.

Consider this besides WebDU and your CFUG.  How many presentations have 
people done on Cold fusion.How many kill sites where highlighted as 
Coldfusion sites.

I've not heard of any, so if I'm wrong tell me.  But people you need to 
get outside of the user groups back into the rest of the web industry.  
If you really love this product and it's more than a day job get out 
there promote it to others.  The rest of the web community hears about 
RoR, PHP and .Net all the time.. Coldfusion... - "oh thats that dead 
language".

It's a PR problem. 

Okay you say "but I have all the work I need, why should I bother at 
all".  Well you can sit around with all your work, but in a few years 
the work level will start to drop and at that stage it will be terminal, 
Coldfusion will be dead.  The reason you have lots of work, simple 
others have left, and you are picking up their slack.

Adobe are not going to help you.  Australia is a small market, if the 
Coldfusion numbers dropped in Australia but remained the same in the 
US.  I don't think Adobe HQ would really be that concerned.  Lets be 
very realistic here. Adobe doesn't make a lot of money out of Coldfusion 
in Australia, it makes more out of CS3 etc.

Adobe guys, lets be real here, you don't have the budget. So if Adobe 
isn't going to help, what can you do.

Encourage the installation of the CF opensource alternatives.  Okay they 
are not 100% cf8, but it is a good stable platform for  cfml development 
that is very low in cost.  Stop being purists.  CF has to Open source in 
Australia to help it survive.

Also is you get industry to push the CF opensource alternatives, and 
educational institutions will follow suit and train graduates in CF.  
Adobe (US) may even wake up at some point.

So what can you do now.  We email, phone, IM a web professional group 
that is not your CFUG and go organise to do a presentation of your 
latest CF project. 

I would love to see this happen, but a little part of me doesn't think 
you guys can do it. Prove me wrong.

-- 
Gary Barber
Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect

Web: radharc.com.au
blog: manwithnoblog.com



barry.b wrote:
> OK Gary - I'll bite: how?
>
> everyone else shoosh (at least for a sec - please?) - I want to hear a
> fresh perspective, considering a bunch of us has thrashed this point
> many times...
>
>
>
> On Apr 9, 2:53 pm, Gary Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> 
>>
>> Problem with all these suggestions are they are preaching to the
>> choir.   Coldfusion needs to be seen to be a viable product OUTSIDE of
>> the Coldfusion community.
>>
>> 
>>
>> --
>> Gary Barber
>> Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect
>>
>> Web: radharc.com.au
>> blog: manwithnoblog.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Dinowitz wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> You know, having a full set of Fusion Authority Quarterly Update on
>>> your shelf for people to see might have a positive effect. :)
>>> 
>>>   
>>> We've been thinking about trying to set up a fulfillment center in
>>> Australia to ship the books out to people locally rather than send
>>> them from the US. Alternatively, we could give the CFUGs a discount
>>> for a mass order for their members. One thing we've always said is
>>> that books on a shelf and/or in a store can do more for a language
>>> than many arguments.- Hide quoted text -
>>>   
>> - Show quoted text -
>> 
> >
>
>   



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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[CyberAngel]

H...

I think that Geoff, Mark and a few others are always doing presentations on
Coldfusion related products.

As for recommending I would think it will depend on the situation and the
project.

As for Killer sites, yeah well I agree...

But I will say what Scott Barnes said, even though it is easier said than
done. But he is right.

Regards
Andrew Scott



-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Gary Barber
Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2008 7:25 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD
from them too?




Would I recommend Coldfusion to someone new in the industry, well 
frankly no. Realistically it has no future (puts on flame proof suit). 
So what can you do about it.

DON"T be complacent.

Consider this besides WebDU and your CFUG.  How many presentations have 
people done on Cold fusion.How many kill sites where highlighted as 
Coldfusion sites.

I've not heard of any, so if I'm wrong tell me.  But people you need to 
get outside of the user groups back into the rest of the web industry.  
If you really love this product and it's more than a day job get out 
there promote it to others.  The rest of the web community hears about 
RoR, PHP and .Net all the time.. Coldfusion... - "oh thats that dead 
language".

It's a PR problem. 

Okay you say "but I have all the work I need, why should I bother at 
all".  Well you can sit around with all your work, but in a few years 
the work level will start to drop and at that stage it will be terminal, 
Coldfusion will be dead.  The reason you have lots of work, simple 
others have left, and you are picking up their slack.

Adobe are not going to help you.  Australia is a small market, if the 
Coldfusion numbers dropped in Australia but remained the same in the 
US.  I don't think Adobe HQ would really be that concerned.  Lets be 
very realistic here. Adobe doesn't make a lot of money out of Coldfusion 
in Australia, it makes more out of CS3 etc.

Adobe guys, lets be real here, you don't have the budget. So if Adobe 
isn't going to help, what can you do.

Encourage the installation of the CF opensource alternatives.  Okay they 
are not 100% cf8, but it is a good stable platform for  cfml development 
that is very low in cost.  Stop being purists.  CF has to Open source in 
Australia to help it survive.

Also is you get industry to push the CF opensource alternatives, and 
educational institutions will follow suit and train graduates in CF.  
Adobe (US) may even wake up at some point.

So what can you do now.  We email, phone, IM a web professional group 
that is not your CFUG and go organise to do a presentation of your 
latest CF project. 

I would love to see this happen, but a little part of me doesn't think 
you guys can do it. Prove me wrong.

-- 
Gary Barber
Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect

Web: radharc.com.au
blog: manwithnoblog.com



barry.b wrote:
> OK Gary - I'll bite: how?
>
> everyone else shoosh (at least for a sec - please?) - I want to hear a
> fresh perspective, considering a bunch of us has thrashed this point
> many times...
>
>
>
> On Apr 9, 2:53 pm, Gary Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> 
>>
>> Problem with all these suggestions are they are preaching to the
>> choir.   Coldfusion needs to be seen to be a viable product OUTSIDE of
>> the Coldfusion community.
>>
>> 
>>
>> --
>> Gary Barber
>> Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect
>>
>> Web: radharc.com.au
>> blog: manwithnoblog.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Dinowitz wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> You know, having a full set of Fusion Authority Quarterly Update on
>>> your shelf for people to see might have a positive effect. :)
>>> 
>>>   
>>> We've been thinking about trying to set up a fulfillment center in
>>> Australia to ship the books out to people locally rather than send
>>> them from the US. Alternatively, we could give the CFUGs a discount
>>> for a mass order for their members. One thing we've always said is
>>> that books on a shelf and/or in a store can do more for a language
>>> than many arguments.- Hide quoted text -
>>>   
>> - Show quoted text -
>> 
> >
>
>   





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To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com
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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Gary Barber]

Okay I'm not privy to where Geoff and Mark are doing these 
presentations.  Is it to Coldfusion people.  If so it's a waste of time.

I've not hear of them and I do keep my ear to the ground so to speak in 
relation to Coldfusion news outside of the Cf community. 

Besides on or two vocal advocates I have heard nothing!

Do nothing and it won't effect me. But it will effect you guys.  Sorry 
to be all serious here.

-- 
Gary Barber
Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect

Web: radharc.com.au
blog: manwithnoblog.com



CyberAngel wrote:
> H...
>
> I think that Geoff, Mark and a few others are always doing presentations on
> Coldfusion related products.
>
> As for recommending I would think it will depend on the situation and the
> project.
>
> As for Killer sites, yeah well I agree...
>
> But I will say what Scott Barnes said, even though it is easier said than
> done. But he is right.
>
> Regards
> Andrew Scott
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Gary Barber
> Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2008 7:25 PM
> To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD
> from them too?
>
>
> 
>
> Would I recommend Coldfusion to someone new in the industry, well 
> frankly no. Realistically it has no future (puts on flame proof suit). 
> So what can you do about it.
>
> DON"T be complacent.
>
> Consider this besides WebDU and your CFUG.  How many presentations have 
> people done on Cold fusion.How many kill sites where highlighted as 
> Coldfusion sites.
>
> I've not heard of any, so if I'm wrong tell me.  But people you need to 
> get outside of the user groups back into the rest of the web industry.  
> If you really love this product and it's more than a day job get out 
> there promote it to others.  The rest of the web community hears about 
> RoR, PHP and .Net all the time.. Coldfusion... - "oh thats that dead 
> language".
>
> It's a PR problem. 
>
> Okay you say "but I have all the work I need, why should I bother at 
> all".  Well you can sit around with all your work, but in a few years 
> the work level will start to drop and at that stage it will be terminal, 
> Coldfusion will be dead.  The reason you have lots of work, simple 
> others have left, and you are picking up their slack.
>
> Adobe are not going to help you.  Australia is a small market, if the 
> Coldfusion numbers dropped in Australia but remained the same in the 
> US.  I don't think Adobe HQ would really be that concerned.  Lets be 
> very realistic here. Adobe doesn't make a lot of money out of Coldfusion 
> in Australia, it makes more out of CS3 etc.
>
> Adobe guys, lets be real here, you don't have the budget. So if Adobe 
> isn't going to help, what can you do.
>
> Encourage the installation of the CF opensource alternatives.  Okay they 
> are not 100% cf8, but it is a good stable platform for  cfml development 
> that is very low in cost.  Stop being purists.  CF has to Open source in 
> Australia to help it survive.
>
> Also is you get industry to push the CF opensource alternatives, and 
> educational institutions will follow suit and train graduates in CF.  
> Adobe (US) may even wake up at some point.
>
> So what can you do now.  We email, phone, IM a web professional group 
> that is not your CFUG and go organise to do a presentation of your 
> latest CF project. 
>
> I would love to see this happen, but a little part of me doesn't think 
> you guys can do it. Prove me wrong.
>
>   



--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
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To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Barry Beattie]

well, Geoff Bowers is doing smart evangelising (IMHO) with FarCry.

the leverage there is to get people interested in the FarCry
application framework - and the CMS as a killer app to get the
framework in the door.

just because it uses CF is not really the focus - building powerful
applications is.

this is pretty much the same model that saw a large spreading of PHP -
it wan't the "personal home page" concept - it was the "runtime" that
made PHPNuke or Wordpress run on people's machines.

thing edge of the wedge stuff

I'm seeing exactly the same thing with Sharepoint and MOSS (Microsoft
Office SharePoint Server) - sure they're products, but if you want to
add/modify it, you'll be doing so in .NET.

we need more killer apps.



On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Gary Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Okay I'm not privy to where Geoff and Mark are doing these
>  presentations.  Is it to Coldfusion people.  If so it's a waste of time.
>
>  I've not hear of them and I do keep my ear to the ground so to speak in
>  relation to Coldfusion news outside of the Cf community.
>
>  Besides on or two vocal advocates I have heard nothing!
>
>  Do nothing and it won't effect me. But it will effect you guys.  Sorry
>  to be all serious here.
>
>
>  --
>  Gary Barber
>  Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect
>
>  Web: radharc.com.au
>  blog: manwithnoblog.com
>
>
>
>
>
> CyberAngel wrote:
>  > H...
>  >
>  > I think that Geoff, Mark and a few others are always doing presentations on
>  > Coldfusion related products.
>  >
>  > As for recommending I would think it will depend on the situation and the
>  > project.
>  >
>  > As for Killer sites, yeah well I agree...
>  >
>  > But I will say what Scott Barnes said, even though it is easier said than
>  > done. But he is right.
>  >
>  > Regards
>  > Andrew Scott
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > -Original Message-
>  > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>  > Of Gary Barber
>  > Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2008 7:25 PM
>  > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
>  > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD
>  > from them too?
>  >
>  >
>  > 
>  >
>  > Would I recommend Coldfusion to someone new in the industry, well
>  > frankly no. Realistically it has no future (puts on flame proof suit).
>  > So what can you do about it.
>  >
>  > DON"T be complacent.
>  >
>  > Consider this besides WebDU and your CFUG.  How many presentations have
>  > people done on Cold fusion.How many kill sites where highlighted as
>  > Coldfusion sites.
>  >
>  > I've not heard of any, so if I'm wrong tell me.  But people you need to
>  > get outside of the user groups back into the rest of the web industry.
>  > If you really love this product and it's more than a day job get out
>  > there promote it to others.  The rest of the web community hears about
>  > RoR, PHP and .Net all the time.. Coldfusion... - "oh thats that dead
>  > language".
>  >
>  > It's a PR problem.
>  >
>  > Okay you say "but I have all the work I need, why should I bother at
>  > all".  Well you can sit around with all your work, but in a few years
>  > the work level will start to drop and at that stage it will be terminal,
>  > Coldfusion will be dead.  The reason you have lots of work, simple
>  > others have left, and you are picking up their slack.
>  >
>  > Adobe are not going to help you.  Australia is a small market, if the
>  > Coldfusion numbers dropped in Australia but remained the same in the
>  > US.  I don't think Adobe HQ would really be that concerned.  Lets be
>  > very realistic here. Adobe doesn't make a lot of money out of Coldfusion
>  > in Australia, it makes more out of CS3 etc.
>  >
>  > Adobe guys, lets be real here, you don't have the budget. So if Adobe
>  > isn't going to help, what can you do.
>  >
>  > Encourage the installation of the CF opensource alternatives.  Okay they
>  > are not 100% cf8, but it is a good stable platform for  cfml development
>  > that is very low in cost.  Stop being purists.  CF has to Open source in
>  > Australia to help it survive.
>  >
>  > Also is you get industry to push the CF opensource alternatives, and
>  > educational institutions will follow suit and train graduates in CF.
>  > Adobe (US) may even wake up at some point.
>  >
>  > So what can you do now.  We email, phone, IM a web professional group
>  > that is not your CFUG and go organise to do a presentation of your
>  > latest CF project.
>  >
>  > I would love to see this happen, but a little part of me doesn't think
>  > you guys can do it. Prove me wrong.
>  >
>  >
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>

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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Robin Hilliard]

Funny... I'm interviewing a promising CF candidate this afternoon in  
Sydney and flying to Melbourne tomorrow to interview two more.  I'm  
working with experienced recruiters and they didn't seem to have too  
much trouble finding at least a few CF developers at short notice.

It's probably a case of sour grapes from the recruiters - they must  
have dreams where you say "What! Replaced by .NET?  Oh, well then  
let's hire every .NET developer you have at outrageous rates, and I'll  
give you a huge tip for your deep, albeit untutored sagely insight  
into the future of web technologies".

Actually I've found a leaked script from a recruiting agency that  
shall remain nameless, and I quote from pages 159-162:

IF THE CLIENT SAYS:
C:
...
C++:
...
COBOL:
...
ColdFusion:
OH! Wasn't that replaced by (d20):
1) .NET
2) Java
3) .NET Again
4) JSP
5) ASP
6) PHP
7) .NYET (Russian Developer Edition)
8) WebObjects
9) Ruby on Rails
10) Vista
11) Perl CGI scripts
12) Amazon Mechanical Turk and Russian HTML designers
13) Office 2008
14) Silverlight, Barnes Memorial Edition
15) Dreamweaver
16) .NET XXL Crinkle Free
17) MS-Linux
18) Frogger
19) The Windows Start Menu
20) .NET and the Kangaroo

CORBA:
...
Delphi:
...

Cheers,
Robin



ROBIN HILLIARD
Chief Executive Officer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RocketBoots Pty Ltd
Level 11
189 Kent Street
Sydney NSW 2001
Australia
Phone +61 2 9323 2507
Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501
Mobile +61 418 414 341
www.rocketboots.com.au  


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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Mark Mandel]

Garry -

I'd love to go out to other UG's or such and do some sort of talk
(albeit I don't know how interested they would be in Transfer, as that
is my main talking point).

Did you have any in mind?

Mark

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Gary Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Okay I'm not privy to where Geoff and Mark are doing these
>  presentations.  Is it to Coldfusion people.  If so it's a waste of time.
>
>  I've not hear of them and I do keep my ear to the ground so to speak in
>  relation to Coldfusion news outside of the Cf community.
>
>  Besides on or two vocal advocates I have heard nothing!
>
>  Do nothing and it won't effect me. But it will effect you guys.  Sorry
>  to be all serious here.
>
>
>  --
>  Gary Barber
>  Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect
>
>  Web: radharc.com.au
>  blog: manwithnoblog.com
>
>
>
>
>
> CyberAngel wrote:
>  > H...
>  >
>  > I think that Geoff, Mark and a few others are always doing presentations on
>  > Coldfusion related products.
>  >
>  > As for recommending I would think it will depend on the situation and the
>  > project.
>  >
>  > As for Killer sites, yeah well I agree...
>  >
>  > But I will say what Scott Barnes said, even though it is easier said than
>  > done. But he is right.
>  >
>  > Regards
>  > Andrew Scott
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > -Original Message-
>  > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>  > Of Gary Barber
>  > Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2008 7:25 PM
>  > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
>  > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD
>  > from them too?
>  >
>  >
>  > 
>  >
>  > Would I recommend Coldfusion to someone new in the industry, well
>  > frankly no. Realistically it has no future (puts on flame proof suit).
>  > So what can you do about it.
>  >
>  > DON"T be complacent.
>  >
>  > Consider this besides WebDU and your CFUG.  How many presentations have
>  > people done on Cold fusion.How many kill sites where highlighted as
>  > Coldfusion sites.
>  >
>  > I've not heard of any, so if I'm wrong tell me.  But people you need to
>  > get outside of the user groups back into the rest of the web industry.
>  > If you really love this product and it's more than a day job get out
>  > there promote it to others.  The rest of the web community hears about
>  > RoR, PHP and .Net all the time.. Coldfusion... - "oh thats that dead
>  > language".
>  >
>  > It's a PR problem.
>  >
>  > Okay you say "but I have all the work I need, why should I bother at
>  > all".  Well you can sit around with all your work, but in a few years
>  > the work level will start to drop and at that stage it will be terminal,
>  > Coldfusion will be dead.  The reason you have lots of work, simple
>  > others have left, and you are picking up their slack.
>  >
>  > Adobe are not going to help you.  Australia is a small market, if the
>  > Coldfusion numbers dropped in Australia but remained the same in the
>  > US.  I don't think Adobe HQ would really be that concerned.  Lets be
>  > very realistic here. Adobe doesn't make a lot of money out of Coldfusion
>  > in Australia, it makes more out of CS3 etc.
>  >
>  > Adobe guys, lets be real here, you don't have the budget. So if Adobe
>  > isn't going to help, what can you do.
>  >
>  > Encourage the installation of the CF opensource alternatives.  Okay they
>  > are not 100% cf8, but it is a good stable platform for  cfml development
>  > that is very low in cost.  Stop being purists.  CF has to Open source in
>  > Australia to help it survive.
>  >
>  > Also is you get industry to push the CF opensource alternatives, and
>  > educational institutions will follow suit and train graduates in CF.
>  > Adobe (US) may even wake up at some point.
>  >
>  > So what can you do now.  We email, phone, IM a web professional group
>  > that is not your CFUG and go organise to do a presentation of your
>  > latest CF project.
>  >
>  > I would love to see this happen, but a little part of me doesn't think
>  > you guys can do it. Prove me wrong.
>  >
>  >
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>



-- 
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: www.compoundtheory.com

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[cfaussie] Re: CF 8 Update 1

[MrBuzzy]

George, I'm not saying you're wrong, you're just not 100% correct :)

Any instances that exist in a location other that /Jrun4/servers will not be
upgraded. For example;

E:\Jrun4\server\cfusion (will be updated)
E:\Jrun4\server\cfusion2 (will be updated)
 E:\cfusion3 (will NOT be updated)

Further more, instances that are not upgraded are rendered useless. They
must be deleted and recreated.
Cheers.
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:12 PM, George Lu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Yes, it does...
>
>   On 09/04/2008, MrBuzzy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm not sure the updater will update all instances but I'm about to find
> > out.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4/9/08, barry.b <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > the size is the dead give-away.
> > >
> > > if it's about 96Mb then it's just the updater.
> > >
> > > if it's 300+ Mb then it's the full deal.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Apr 9, 10:39 am, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Unless you hacked a Mac OSX install as per the notes. Which I know
> > this is
> > > > not the case.
> > > >
> > > > Andrew Scott
> > > > Senior Coldfusion Developer
> > > > Aegeon Pty. Ltd.www.aegeon.com.au 
> > > > Phone: +613  9015 8628
> > > > Mobile: 0404 998 273
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On
> > > Behalf
> > > >
> > > > Of Mark Mandel
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2008 10:13 AM
> > > > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
> > > > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CF 8 Update 1
> > > >
> > > > Mariano,
> > > >
> > > > There is an 'updater' and a full install.
> > > >
> > > > if you download the updater from the 'Updates' page, it will only
> > > > update your CF install.
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Mariano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >  Hi,
> > > >
> > > > >  I have a Dev server which has multiple CF 8/ CF 7 instance's, and
> > I'm
> > > > >  in need to update the CF 8 instance's.
> > > > >  I have downloaded the "CF8 update 1" from adobe but it looks like
> > it
> > > > >  will do a ful linstall of CF8 instead of updating the current
> > isntall,
> > > > >  can anyone confirm on whether "update 1" does a fresh install or
> > > > >  update's existing files ? as I'm not eager to break the current
> > CF 8
> > > > >  install.
> > > >
> > > > >  Regards,
> > > > >  Mariano
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > W:www.compoundtheory.com- Hide quoted text -
> > > >
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
>

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[cfaussie] [OT] Dreamweaver - testing files

[Taco Fleur]

Hello all,

I'm almost ashamed for asking this (since I've been using DW for years)!

I have the following setup for a site:
- Local info = Local machine
- Remote info = Visual Source Safe
- Testing server = ColdFusion Server

To test a CFM file I click F12 which works fine, it uploads the CFM file to
the test server. But I can't figure out how to upload other files together
with the page that have changed, other than manually uploading them.
Does anyone know the secret I'm missing here?

-- 
Try advertising on the new Australian Business Directory
www.clickfind.com.au
blog: http://australiansearchengine.wordpress.com/
Web Designers > http://www.web-designers-australia.com

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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Gary Barber]

Mark

If you haven't already I would be looking at the barcamps, web standards 
groups etc or any events that bring the groups together.

CF needs more people like you and Geoff in Australia

Hat tip to Geoff for putting Farcry out there, which still needs to be 
promoted.

-- 
Gary Barber
Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect

Web: radharc.com.au
blog: manwithnoblog.com



Mark Mandel wrote:
> Garry -
>
> I'd love to go out to other UG's or such and do some sort of talk
> (albeit I don't know how interested they would be in Transfer, as that
> is my main talking point).
>
> Did you have any in mind?
>
> Mark
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Gary Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>>  Okay I'm not privy to where Geoff and Mark are doing these
>>  presentations.  Is it to Coldfusion people.  If so it's a waste of time.
>>
>>  I've not hear of them and I do keep my ear to the ground so to speak in
>>  relation to Coldfusion news outside of the Cf community.
>>
>>  Besides on or two vocal advocates I have heard nothing!
>>
>>  Do nothing and it won't effect me. But it will effect you guys.  Sorry
>>  to be all serious here.
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Gary Barber
>>  Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect
>>
>>  Web: radharc.com.au
>>  blog: manwithnoblog.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> CyberAngel wrote:
>>  > H...
>>  >
>>  > I think that Geoff, Mark and a few others are always doing presentations 
>> on
>>  > Coldfusion related products.
>>  >
>>  > As for recommending I would think it will depend on the situation and the
>>  > project.
>>  >
>>  > As for Killer sites, yeah well I agree...
>>  >
>>  > But I will say what Scott Barnes said, even though it is easier said than
>>  > done. But he is right.
>>  >
>>  > Regards
>>  > Andrew Scott
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > -Original Message-
>>  > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>>  > Of Gary Barber
>>  > Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2008 7:25 PM
>>  > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
>>  > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not 
>> FUD
>>  > from them too?
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > 
>>  >
>>  > Would I recommend Coldfusion to someone new in the industry, well
>>  > frankly no. Realistically it has no future (puts on flame proof suit).
>>  > So what can you do about it.
>>  >
>>  > DON"T be complacent.
>>  >
>>  > Consider this besides WebDU and your CFUG.  How many presentations have
>>  > people done on Cold fusion.How many kill sites where highlighted as
>>  > Coldfusion sites.
>>  >
>>  > I've not heard of any, so if I'm wrong tell me.  But people you need to
>>  > get outside of the user groups back into the rest of the web industry.
>>  > If you really love this product and it's more than a day job get out
>>  > there promote it to others.  The rest of the web community hears about
>>  > RoR, PHP and .Net all the time.. Coldfusion... - "oh thats that dead
>>  > language".
>>  >
>>  > It's a PR problem.
>>  >
>>  > Okay you say "but I have all the work I need, why should I bother at
>>  > all".  Well you can sit around with all your work, but in a few years
>>  > the work level will start to drop and at that stage it will be terminal,
>>  > Coldfusion will be dead.  The reason you have lots of work, simple
>>  > others have left, and you are picking up their slack.
>>  >
>>  > Adobe are not going to help you.  Australia is a small market, if the
>>  > Coldfusion numbers dropped in Australia but remained the same in the
>>  > US.  I don't think Adobe HQ would really be that concerned.  Lets be
>>  > very realistic here. Adobe doesn't make a lot of money out of Coldfusion
>>  > in Australia, it makes more out of CS3 etc.
>>  >
>>  > Adobe guys, lets be real here, you don't have the budget. So if Adobe
>>  > isn't going to help, what can you do.
>>  >
>>  > Encourage the installation of the CF opensource alternatives.  Okay they
>>  > are not 100% cf8, but it is a good stable platform for  cfml development
>>  > that is very low in cost.  Stop being purists.  CF has to Open source in
>>  > Australia to help it survive.
>>  >
>>  > Also is you get industry to push the CF opensource alternatives, and
>>  > educational institutions will follow suit and train graduates in CF.
>>  > Adobe (US) may even wake up at some point.
>>  >
>>  > So what can you do now.  We email, phone, IM a web professional group
>>  > that is not your CFUG and go organise to do a presentation of your
>>  > latest CF project.
>>  >
>>  > I would love to see this happen, but a little part of me doesn't think
>>  > you guys can do it. Prove me wrong.
>>  >
>>  >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>
>
>
>   


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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[barry.b]

just getting back to Robin Hilliard's point about recruiters having no
problem finding quality candidates for him...

... that may be specific to certain areas (Sydney, Melbourne) or
sections of the market (enterprise, RIA's). Besides, Sydney and
Melbourne are magnets from other areas of the country anyway. I
personally know of 3 CF good people who have moved to Sydney from
Brisbane.

According to a recruiter I spoke to this morning, one client on his
books who is just about to throw the towel in on CF and get his apps
re-written in another language - he can't find the CF developers to
maintain and extend it. Darren Tracey (QLD CFUG manager) sounded alarm
bells about this over a year ago (where the "new blood" was coming
from) - but it's typical free-market forces and there's not a lot that
can be done about it, even from the educational/student (supply) side.


do CF a favour - poach a PHP coder today...


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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[AJ Mercer]

So do you think if you showed a PHP developer a free CFML engine they would
jump ship?

Or are they a part of them mob questioning CF's longevity??


Or should we be canvasing the new web developers - those that not know any
different / better?


Should UGs run a meeting 'An introduction to CF for PHP developers'

Should we poach from other disciplines too?
 - RoR => they are more fanatical the CF developers ;-)
 - ASP
 - .Net => are they a lot cause?
 - JSP


And where do CFML Engine providers fit into all of this?
Should Railo and New Atlanta be taking on this challenge??

I think Adobe are happy looking after the enterprise end of the market, in
which people don't respect 'free' application server products
They can afford to pay top dollar for skilled people or pay to train them
up.


I was hoping Flex and AIR would mention CF a bit more.
But I guess Adobe don't want to give the impression that it is the only
option and scare of the PHP/.Net market.



more questions than answers, sorry :-(


On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:30 AM, barry.b <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> just getting back to Robin Hilliard's point about recruiters having no
> problem finding quality candidates for him...
>
> ... that may be specific to certain areas (Sydney, Melbourne) or
> sections of the market (enterprise, RIA's). Besides, Sydney and
> Melbourne are magnets from other areas of the country anyway. I
> personally know of 3 CF good people who have moved to Sydney from
> Brisbane.
>
> According to a recruiter I spoke to this morning, one client on his
> books who is just about to throw the towel in on CF and get his apps
> re-written in another language - he can't find the CF developers to
> maintain and extend it. Darren Tracey (QLD CFUG manager) sounded alarm
> bells about this over a year ago (where the "new blood" was coming
> from) - but it's typical free-market forces and there's not a lot that
> can be done about it, even from the educational/student (supply) side.
>
>
> do CF a favour - poach a PHP coder today...
>
>
> >
>


-- 

AJ Mercer
Web Log: http://webonix.net

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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Joel Chia]

Isn't that how cults recruit members? by preying on the poor vulnerable
blank slates who don't know any better :D



From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of AJ Mercer
Sent: Thursday, 10 April 2008 2:09 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not
FUD from them too?


 <---Snip---> 
 
 Or should we be canvasing the new web developers - those that not know
any different / better?

 <---Snip--->




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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Kay Smoljak]

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 12:08 PM, AJ Mercer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So do you think if you showed a PHP developer a free CFML engine they would
> jump ship? Or are they a part of them mob questioning CF's longevity??
> Or should we be canvasing the new web developers - those that not know any
> different / better? Should UGs run a meeting 'An introduction to CF for PHP 
> developers'
> Should we poach from other disciplines too?

You don't need to convert anyone. And if you try you will more than
likely fail. This is not a freaking religion. Someone telling me to
convert to a different development platform is no different from the
Mormons knocking on your door.

What CF developers should do - and those of you from WA will know that
I harp on about this a lot, to almost no effect - is participate in
their local industry communities. People who think CF is dead often
think so because CF developers are nowhere to be seen. They only go to
CF events and aren't interested in anything else. They don't
participate in BarCamps and WebJams and PodCamps and WSGs and Port80s
and AWIA events and WIPA events and blogger's meetups and *TUBs or
anything else where gatherings of PHP, Rails, JSP, ASP and plain old
web developers and *gasp* designers, sales people, business owners,
vendors, suppliers and recruiters congregate. If there's a healthy
contingent of CF developers at these events then CF must be thriving,
right?

BUT... people should go to these events not to push a CF barrow, but
because it's fun and will make them a better developer, networker,
contractor, business owner or whatever.

K.

-- 
Kay Smoljak
business: www.cleverstarfish.com
coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
personal: goatlady.wordpress.com | heapsbad.com

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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Dale Fraser]

I never have trouble finding people, there are two things you can do.

 

1.  Advertise and hire someone

2.  Hire a keen junior person and train them

 

I do both here, works out well.

 

As for promoting CF, this isn't going to solve anything. There are three
reasons CF isn't as popular the way I see it, but Adobe (and the community)
do seem to want to address it.

 

1.  It's not fully OO, more OO stuff would give it a better chance at being
taught by schools etc.

2.  It's not ECMA style scripting, you have to write tags and developers
hate that if they have come from other langagues.

3.  Its not Free

 

So as a young developer you could use.

 

PHP, .NET or Java (or many others)

 

Which are free, readily available, lots of forumns etc, you can write OO
code if you choose and in a familiar syntax.

 

Or you can choose to do something completely out of left field and pick
something that is the opposite of the above. Its not that complex, if you
were a young developer with those options, its an easy decision, CF is NOT
in the running.

 

PS: I don't want to hear the yeah but CF is better, or easier, or quicker to
code. I know all that, but the developers when they are young or the unis
when they pick their topics, discount it for those three reasons. Die hard
CF'ers will say making CF more OO or adding full scripting support is bad
for the product as that's not what it's about. Well I say it's about time
that Adobe joined the masses in making a ECMA, OO, Free languages. And they
already know this obviously, and they have it already, it's called Action
Script.

 

Regards

Dale Fraser

  http://learncf.com

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of AJ Mercer
Sent: Thursday, 10 April 2008 2:09 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD
from them too?

 

So do you think if you showed a PHP developer a free CFML engine they would
jump ship?

Or are they a part of them mob questioning CF's longevity??


Or should we be canvasing the new web developers - those that not know any
different / better?


Should UGs run a meeting 'An introduction to CF for PHP developers'

Should we poach from other disciplines too?
 - RoR => they are more fanatical the CF developers ;-)
 - ASP
 - .Net => are they a lot cause?
 - JSP


And where do CFML Engine providers fit into all of this?
Should Railo and New Atlanta be taking on this challenge??

I think Adobe are happy looking after the enterprise end of the market, in
which people don't respect 'free' application server products
They can afford to pay top dollar for skilled people or pay to train them
up.


I was hoping Flex and AIR would mention CF a bit more.
But I guess Adobe don't want to give the impression that it is the only
option and scare of the PHP/.Net market.



more questions than answers, sorry :-(



On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:30 AM, barry.b <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


just getting back to Robin Hilliard's point about recruiters having no
problem finding quality candidates for him...

... that may be specific to certain areas (Sydney, Melbourne) or
sections of the market (enterprise, RIA's). Besides, Sydney and
Melbourne are magnets from other areas of the country anyway. I
personally know of 3 CF good people who have moved to Sydney from
Brisbane.

According to a recruiter I spoke to this morning, one client on his
books who is just about to throw the towel in on CF and get his apps
re-written in another language - he can't find the CF developers to
maintain and extend it. Darren Tracey (QLD CFUG manager) sounded alarm
bells about this over a year ago (where the "new blood" was coming
from) - but it's typical free-market forces and there's not a lot that
can be done about it, even from the educational/student (supply) side.


do CF a favour - poach a PHP coder today...








-- 

AJ Mercer
Web Log: http://webonix.net


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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Gary Barber]

Kay Smoljak wrote:
> 
>
> What CF developers should do - and those of you from WA will know that
> I harp on about this a lot, to almost no effect - is participate in
> their local industry communities. People who think CF is dead often
> think so because CF developers are nowhere to be seen. They only go to
> CF events and aren't interested in anything else. They don't
> participate in BarCamps and WebJams and PodCamps and WSGs and Port80s
> and AWIA events and WIPA events and blogger's meetups and *TUBs or
> anything else where gatherings of PHP, Rails, JSP, ASP and plain old
> web developers and *gasp* designers, sales people, business owners,
> vendors, suppliers and recruiters congregate. If there's a healthy
> contingent of CF developers at these events then CF must be thriving,
> right?
>   
What a great idea.  I can't see that people have anything to lose.  
Maybe I should be doing just that ;)

If only  people just chat over a beer and wax on about their latest 
project, it all helps. 


Stop being mushrooms people get out and go to a new event this month 
where you don't know anyone!

> BUT... people should go to these events not to push a CF barrow, but
> because it's fun and will make them a better developer, networker,
> contractor, business owner or whatever.
>   
-- 
Gary Barber
Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect

Web: radharc.com.au
blog: manwithnoblog.com


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[cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

[Kay Smoljak]

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Gary Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  What a great idea.  I can't see that people have anything to lose.
>  Maybe I should be doing just that ;)

Hahaha - yeah Gary, stop being such a recluse!
See you at PTUB[1] tomorrow night?

[1] http://ptub.blogspot.com/2008/04/ptub-3-god-save-queens.html for
any Perth people

-- 
Kay Smoljak
business: www.cleverstarfish.com
coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
personal: goatlady.wordpress.com | heapsbad.com

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[cfaussie] Re: CF 8 Update 1

[MrBuzzy]

Warning: if you have followed these steps to upgrade your Axis version;

http://tjordahl.blogspot.com/2005/09/upgrading-coldfusion-mx-7-to-axis-13.html

The CF 8.0.1 Updater will revert your installation to Axis 1.2.1.

Cheers.
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 9:51 AM, MrBuzzy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> George, I'm not saying you're wrong, you're just not 100% correct :)
>
> Any instances that exist in a location other that /Jrun4/servers will not
> be upgraded. For example;
>
> E:\Jrun4\server\cfusion (will be updated)
> E:\Jrun4\server\cfusion2 (will be updated)
>  E:\cfusion3 (will NOT be updated)
>
> Further more, instances that are not upgraded are rendered useless. They
> must be deleted and recreated.
> Cheers.
>   On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:12 PM, George Lu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Yes, it does...
> >
> >   On 09/04/2008, MrBuzzy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I'm not sure the updater will update all instances but I'm about to
> > > find out.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 4/9/08, barry.b <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > the size is the dead give-away.
> > > >
> > > > if it's about 96Mb then it's just the updater.
> > > >
> > > > if it's 300+ Mb then it's the full deal.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Apr 9, 10:39 am, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > Unless you hacked a Mac OSX install as per the notes. Which I know
> > > this is
> > > > > not the case.
> > > > >
> > > > > Andrew Scott
> > > > > Senior Coldfusion Developer
> > > > > Aegeon Pty. Ltd.www.aegeon.com.au 
> > > > > Phone: +613  9015 8628
> > > > > Mobile: 0404 998 273
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > >
> > > > > Of Mark Mandel
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2008 10:13 AM
> > > > > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CF 8 Update 1
> > > > >
> > > > > Mariano,
> > > > >
> > > > > There is an 'updater' and a full install.
> > > > >
> > > > > if you download the updater from the 'Updates' page, it will only
> > > > > update your CF install.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Mariano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >  Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > >  I have a Dev server which has multiple CF 8/ CF 7 instance's,
> > > and I'm
> > > > > >  in need to update the CF 8 instance's.
> > > > > >  I have downloaded the "CF8 update 1" from adobe but it looks
> > > like it
> > > > > >  will do a ful linstall of CF8 instead of updating the current
> > > isntall,
> > > > > >  can anyone confirm on whether "update 1" does a fresh install
> > > or
> > > > > >  update's existing files ? as I'm not eager to break the current
> > > CF 8
> > > > > >  install.
> > > > >
> > > > > >  Regards,
> > > > > >  Mariano
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > W:www.compoundtheory.com- Hide quoted text -
> > > > >
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
>

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[cfaussie] cfpdf action="merge" - CF 8 Update 1

[Phil Haeusler]

Just to let you all know that of a regression bug in CF8.01.  The pages 
attribute now seems to be mandatory for  under CF 
8.01.  Existing code that merges PDFs together will break if you don't now 
use the pages attribute.  You have to add a pages="*" to get it to run.

I'd just like to publicly thank RocketUnit http://rocketunit.riaforge.org/ 
for finding this for me the moment we upgraded our dev server here.  I 
encourage everyone who isn't actively unit testing to have a look at 
RocketUnit or any other unit testing framework as they will saves you a lot 
of heartache.  It takes about 5 minutes to get your first test running, and 
after that you'll be streets ahead.

Phil
 

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