Re: [freenet-chat] Rebrithing, no flame intended
On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:12:39 +1200 "David McNab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I just saw a 20/20 episode last night about rebirthing and it > talked > > about how a little girl died in a terrible accedint during the > rebirthing > > therapy. > > Here's an interesting study into society and human habits of > perception. > > Firstly, one thing the media will never tell you is that the fatal > incident > was *NOT* accepted rebirthing therapy. Calling it rebirthing is > like > referring to decapitation as accepted medical practice. Well that is a HUGE relief. But you can understand why those practitioners called it "Rebirthing" right? I mean, what they are doing is wrong, IMHO, but I understand why they call it that. They are putting a little kid, curled up in a fetal position, in a blanket which is wraped completely around her/him and held shut at one end, forming a kind of sack, then four adults with four large pillows push and lean on this little child for a while, who knows how long. Then they say, "Do you want to be born now little baby?" or something and they open up the closed end and out emerges the "baby" into her/his "mother's" arms. This is supposedly supposed to help create a bond between child and parent that wasn't there before and was in danger of never developing at all. I can understand the need for an adoptive parent to create a bond with thier adopted children, but this method is by far much too dangerous and should be condemed. It should not be called by the same name that David McNab's organization uses, it would be like calling the two different sects of the LDS church the exact same name. It would be an insult to both parties. I am a member of one of those two sects, and disagree a great deal with the members of the other sect, but I am not going to be rude and flame them. Their church is called The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Later-Day Saints, I think. It might have another name, but thats the one I think describes that particular offshoot of my particular sect. Anyway, this therapy that those practitioners were useing may be a deviant offshoot of the original version of Rebirthing and should not in any way be called the exact same name, because confusion would result. > In cases where doctors commit gross misconduct, and kill their > patients, > society comes down hard on the individual doctor, and doesn't blame > the > profession. > > But with less established treatment modalities, if one practitioner > commits > misconduct, then society comes down on the profession as a whole. > All this > falls into the category of 'neophobia' - fear of what is truly new. I agree completely. One so-called mormon family who happens to be polygamists make people think that All mormons are polygamists, which is by far NOT true. I for one don't see anything wrong with multiple wives or multiple husbands as long as it is not an abusive relationship and is a loveing and supportive relationship. I don't think there should be any laws against polygamy in any way. There should be laws against lying, cheating, stealing, and abuseing, which all might happen when a man has more than one wife, but polygamy should not be blamed for all of these terrible things. Any marriage or relationship can be abusive, no matter what the surcumstances. And Cancema, an actual cure for cancer which my mother has used to cure her cancer, is shunned by the medical community and the people who make it are forced to not suggest that this stuff DOES ACTUALLY WORK!!! I KNOW for a fact that it works, and I'll tell anyone anywhere the truth, no matter the consequenses. And if rebirthing therapy works as well as David sais it does, and I'm starting to believe he is right because I have come to trust him, then I'm probably going to try it out and see for myself. What harm could it possibly do? NONE. What harmfull side-effects are there in many if not most of the therapies and drugs used by the medical community? There so many really bad side-effects that I can't list them all. Anything from a slight headache to DEATH occurs because of the crap those people push on thier patients. > The basic fact of the incident is that it *was not* rebirthing. The > practitioners departed totally from what is accepted rebirthing > technique. Well that is good to hear. I would say that they need a good swift kick to the head, but they are probably just going to go to prison for a while. > It's sad to note that the police investigators, legislators and > media did > not even bother to consult the extensive literature available. It's > abhorrent that they didn't even bother to talk to one of the scores > of > medical practitioners who now use the rebirthing technicue. If they > had, > they would have recognised that the death was not caused by > rebirthing, but > by a desperate and criminal departure from that technique. > Rebirthing > encourages a fullness of breathing - to imagine a so-ca
Re: [freenet-chat] Rebrithing, no flame intended
>From: "David McNab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > I just saw a 20/20 episode last night about rebirthing and it talked > > about how a little girl died in a terrible accedint during the >rebirthing > > therapy. > >So before anyone flames at the process of rebirthing, let me ask one thing. >Most or all of you can boast vastly above average intelligence, and the >intellectual discipline of being able to tackle huge and complex structures >of programming code. I would advise you to apply similar intellectual >rigour >in examining *at depth* this radical therapeutic process that goes by the >name of Rebirthing. > >Cheers >David I agree completely, and second the motion. I would go so far, as to say; use that same vigor in examining ANY form of "alternative" treatments, be it "Rebirthing", "Homeopathy" or any alternative medicines or any other paradigm you could think of. It's too dangerous to believe what you hear or read without researching the information for yourself, as all you end up doing is adopting the opinion of the person or organization you heard it from. The story may have seemed innocent enough in its presentation, but as indicated, you may not be hearing the whole story, or the person telling the story may not have even considered that there may have been another side to it... I usually try to find more corroborating stories, and also try to find stories that pose another angle, as well. Two or 3 of each from seperate sources is my standard. Some stories have more than 1 point of view, and many, more than 2... Mikus _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Rebrithing, no flame intended
> I just saw a 20/20 episode last night about rebirthing and it talked > about how a little girl died in a terrible accedint during the rebirthing > therapy. Here's an interesting study into society and human habits of perception. Firstly, one thing the media will never tell you is that the fatal incident was *NOT* accepted rebirthing therapy. Calling it rebirthing is like referring to decapitation as accepted medical practice. In cases where doctors commit gross misconduct, and kill their patients, society comes down hard on the individual doctor, and doesn't blame the profession. But with less established treatment modalities, if one practitioner commits misconduct, then society comes down on the profession as a whole. All this falls into the category of 'neophobia' - fear of what is truly new. I'm all too familiar with the news coverage of that terrible incident, and have researched it at length and discussed it with my colleagues around the world. The basic fact of the incident is that it *was not* rebirthing. The practitioners departed totally from what is accepted rebirthing technique. It's sad to note that the police investigators, legislators and media did not even bother to consult the extensive literature available. It's abhorrent that they didn't even bother to talk to one of the scores of medical practitioners who now use the rebirthing technicue. If they had, they would have recognised that the death was not caused by rebirthing, but by a desperate and criminal departure from that technique. Rebirthing encourages a fullness of breathing - to imagine a so-called 'rebirthing' session where breathing is inhibited in any way is like imagining a pub with no beer, or a celibate brothel - it's a total contradiction. Rebirthing clients who consult my wife and I have either laughed or expressed extreme offence at the total inaccuracy and ignorance of the media coverage. They have speculated that medical authorities in Colorado were for many years feeling threatened by the success of rebirthing in addressing a whole raft of human conditions - psychological, emotional and even physical - and for years have been looking for something to 'pin' on the profession. Other rebirthing clients have said "This [rebirthing] is like 'taking the red pill' [in The Matrix]". My wife first got interested in the process 25 years ago, seeking relief for chronic debilitating epilepsy and diabetes. After years of unsuccesful treatment with the finest medical specialists, and the most reputable alternatives, she visited a psychologist, on a friend's recommendation, as a last resort. This psychologist was not practicing mainstream psychology as he was taught - instead he was administering a basic form of rebirthing therapy. Within a few short weeks, by wife's health cleared up completely. She has since been completely free of all epilepsy, all diabetes, doesn't need any medication and never consults doctors. That psychologist was at that time using rooms in a medical centre. Doctors sent their patients to him for counselling, and got extremely pissed off when the clients, with their physical conditions now healed, no longer required medical treatment. The psychologist was evicted from the medical centre and run out of town. There are documented cases of thousands of people using the motivational, cathartic and empowering benefits of rebirthing to induce their cancers into permanent remission. The reason why much of society comes down hard on rebirthing is that it threatens one of the three largest industries in the world - the pharmaceuticals industry. If people learned this process en masse, they would eliminate most or all need for pharmaceutical drugs, and the industry would collapse overnight. A collapse in the pharmaceuticals industry could be enough to shatter the USA's economic world dominance. So before anyone flames at the process of rebirthing, let me ask one thing. Most or all of you can boast vastly above average intelligence, and the intellectual discipline of being able to tackle huge and complex structures of programming code. I would advise you to apply similar intellectual rigour in examining *at depth* this radical therapeutic process that goes by the name of Rebirthing. Cheers David - Original Message - From: "Aaron P Ingebrigtsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 12:52 Subject: [freenet-chat] Rebrithing, no flame intended > This message is NOT meant as a flame to anyone, especialy not David, whom > I respect and like as a person, but I am concerned about methods of > "therapy" that either border very closely on abuse, or cross the line > into murder. > > I just saw a 20/20 episode last night about rebirthing and it talked > about how a little girl died in a terrible accedint
[freenet-chat] Rebrithing, no flame intended
This message is NOT meant as a flame to anyone, especialy not David, whom I respect and like as a person, but I am concerned about methods of "therapy" that either border very closely on abuse, or cross the line into murder. I just saw a 20/20 episode last night about rebirthing and it talked about how a little girl died in a terrible accedint during the rebirthing therapy. I must also mention that the episode also talked about another little girl for whom the therapy worked quite well. I'm not totaly biased against rebirthing, I'm just concerned about this one girl's death. She kept saying she couldn't breath, and the adult practitioner said she Knew she could breath and didn't believe the girl. Well she may have been able to suck air into her lungs in order to then force air past her vocal cords, but that doesn't mean she is breathing OXYGEN So, basicaly, this lady is out on bond and this other practitioner that was also there helping are going to be tried for the abuse of a child resulting in death. I specificaly didn't like the part of the therapy where the practitioner yells in the kid's face over and over again. That is going WAY too far. The actual simulation of the womb and birthing process doesn't seem all that bad to me, and in fact I can see where the psychological benefit would be, if that person experienced some kind of trauma in thier first moments of life outside of the womb and somehow kept that memory in the subconcios or something. The practitioners SHOULD be monitoring the person inside the simulated womb of blankets and pilows for signs of physiological distress, AND there should at least be an oxygen tube in there. That would at least simulate the umbilical cord in some way, and the ability of the mother to know when there is something wrong with the baby she is carying. I mean, if you are going to simulate the womb and birthing process, why not take it that much further? I realize that the REAL birthing process is an extremely traumatic event for both mother and child, but it usualy doesn't result in any permanent injury, either physical or psychological, and usualy doesn't result in death. I would like it if the human race didn't give live birth to such LARGE offspring. I would like it if human mothers instead developed an external pouch into which a tiny featus can grow and mature until it is time to leave, then simply slip out of an already very large hole. :) No pain for the mother, no pain for the child, no stress, just a nice good time. :) That would make us marsupeals or something right? Like a Kangaroo or something. :) Or even better, MALES should cary and give birth to children after getting egs from females. :) Like Sea-horses. :) I'm not sure what kind of benefit it would have for a child who can't trust thier adoptive parents or foster parents. I mean, if you have been bounced around from home to home for many years in the foster system, and your real parents abused you or something, then I don't think ANY kind of therapy will ever work very well. All you can do is try to provide a stable and loving environment, where the rules are always clearly stated and never change, and where there is plenty of praise for a job well done, and punishment is only doled out when it is necessary. The yelling in one's face is exactly what they do in boot camp. I am against forceing ANYONE to have to endure that kind of crap. But I do think that sometimes the only way to get someone to behave is to punish them when they misbehave. This however does not necessarily mean abusing them emotionaly or physicaly. Even if the intention of yelling at someone is to get them to yell back and release their anger, it is still extremely abusive and traumatic. That kind of trauma can do more harm than good. Believe me, I know I've had more than enough of my fill of emotional and physical abuse and I refuse to simply accept any more of that crap. If anyone tries to force such crap onto me ever again, I WILL fight back. GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
