Re: [Chicken-users] Web generation + localization.
On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 06:17:05PM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote: So I gots me a web app to write. I also want to be prepped for other (spoken) languages, for similar reasons, and because I'm nerdy that way. There are libraries that will allow insertion of arbitrary Scheme into otherwise normal HTML files (i.e. spiffy's ssp stuff). There are other libraries that allow writing a web page as Scheme (i.e. hart). Does any one have any other suggestions, or preferences amongst those options, or anything? I've spent a bit of time thinking about this (unfortunately, no time to code it up yet). At work we use Drupal, which simply requires you to wrap translatable strings with a function call to t(...). This is a solution that absolutely does not scale well because everytime it sees a t() call, it hits the database to retrieve the string. It caches pages, but still we see a lot of overhead in the roundtrips to the database for uncached pages. So I've been thinking, if you use sxslt translations (or similar s-expression based templates), you can first extract all translatable strings by folding over the template _just_ before you rewrite the s-expressions to HTML/XML strings, then you do one big query to request them all at once, and then you insert the strings as needed. Example: `(html (head (title (trans this is a test))) (body (h1 (trans My first test)) (p (trans we have some testing stuff here Then, you have one translation step that extracts all the (trans ..) things, resulting in the list (this is a test, My first test, we have some testing stuff here) which then can be used in one query that returns the translations. After that, you go through the sxml again and replace all (trans ..) by their translation. Sorry for the hand-waving - I wouldn't have put this out without code to back it, but it would be a shame if you would go about it the Drupal way and then would have to reimplement something. Cheers, Peter -- http://sjamaan.ath.cx -- The process of preparing programs for a digital computer is especially attractive, not only because it can be economically and scientifically rewarding, but also because it can be an aesthetic experience much like composing poetry or music. -- Donald Knuth pgpyG958vbiTf.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Re: regex and named subpatterns
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:40 PM, John Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alex Shinn scripsit: Chicken regexp's historically weren't tied to PCRE, and provided a fairly minimal feature set to accomodate all the backends equally. It now always uses PCRE, and you could get at the named subpatterns with pcre_get_named_substring() if you returned the match object, but personally I don't think it should be bound too strongly to PCRE. I think the contrary: since we are committed to allowing access to the extended regex features of PCRE (which helps portability: no more random lossage because I use an extension that your regex package doesn't have), we should also provide access to the API of PCRE. This seems to me much more Chicken-y. Hm, I think not: committing to PCRE ensures all use the same regexp flavor, not more. If we need more API at all, it should go into: http://chicken.wiki.br/regex-extras cheers, felix ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] web-scheme hart
On 05 Mar 2008 23:29:19 -0300, Mario Domenech Goulart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:45:42 -0800 Robin Lee Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems to me that web-scheme and hart do more-or-less the same thing. 2. What's the difference between web-scheme and hart? Do people have preferences between the two? I don't know much about hart. I think Graham can write about it. Briefly, Hart is a syntax extension that tries to turn as much of your html expression into simple print statements at macro-expansion time. The base-case, where nothing in your expression requires variable-substitution, turns into a single print statement: #;2 ,x (hart (h1 (@ (id main)) hello)) (noop (begin (hart-print h1 id=\main\hello/h1))) Adding variables makes it a bit more verbose at expansion time. #;2 ,x (hart (h1 (@ (id my-h1-id)) (t: my-h1-text))) (noop (begin (hart-print h1) (let ((g3 my-h1-id)) (when g3 (hart-print id=\ (hart-html-escape g3) \))) (hart-print ) (apply hart-print (map hart-html-escape (list my-h1-text))) (hart-print /h1))) My goal was to develop a nice syntax, but also to reduce runtime overhead as much as possible. I've never properly benchmarked it against other options (I haven't used Mario's egg; I used to use the shtml-html option in the htmlprag egg). Also, I haven't really tried to optimize it, beyond compiling with an -On flag, and using a fast-if-primitive html-escape routine. I guess I found that it was efficient enough for my needs. One thing I'd like to add is better support for HTML entities, probably following SXML syntax: (hart (p Come back to the five ( amp) dime, Jimmy Dean...)) right now you need to use a (raw: ...) or (scheme: ...) block to do that: (hart (p (raw: Come back to the five amp; dime, Jimmy Dean...))) (hart (p Come back to the five (raw: amp;) dime, Jimmy Dean...)) (hart (p Come back to the five (scheme: (print amp;)) dime, Jimmy Dean...)) Hope this helps. Comments and suggestions are always welcome. Graham ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] INI files in Scheme? (or something similar)
On Mar 3, 2008, at 5:58 PM, Mario Domenech Goulart wrote: Hi Hans, On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 20:22:11 -0500 Hans Nowak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a standard way to do INI files (or similar kinds of initialization files, ala .bashrc etc) in Scheme? For example, something like this: snip Of course, there are many other ways. SRFI-29 Best wishes, Mario ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users Best Wishes, Kon ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Revised Chapter 1 (reminder)
On 2008 Mar 06, at 01:01, felix winkelmann wrote: On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 10:09 PM, Vincent Manis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A couple of weeks ago, I posted a draft of a new version of Chapter 1 of the manual, and asked for comments. There have been a few things added, and I think that the new version is almost ready. There are still some links to add, and a couple of more substantive things. Absolutely great! Should this chapter just replace the current Overview page, then? I think it can...I kept all the content from the current page. -- v ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
[Chicken-users] Trashing of Egg documentation changes?
On Eggs Unlimited 3, the top of the Web programming section looks like this (rendered, not source): Web programing chickenegg name=web-unity license=BSD author=sjamaan description=Web app unification framework for CGI/SCGI/FCGI/Spiffy webservers/ ajax Using xmlHttpRequest with the Spiffy web-server MIT [[felix winkelmann]] Dependencies I've fixed both these problems (the web-unity failure and the [[...]] around felix's name) twice now, but they keep being regenerated. Is this page auto-generated? If so, could the page *explain* this at the top, so I can change the right stuff? Also, I've made some minor clarifying changes to the spiffy docs at http://chicken.wiki.br/spiffy ; is that going to be trashed too? -Robin -- Lojban Reason #17: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/ http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] readline blocks threads
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 11:50 PM, Shawn Rutledge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So they're using Unix sockets. It's already non-blocking, so F_SETFL doesn't change the behavior. But I guess I'm being stupid... readline (or the terminal? as you say) is blocking, not dbus. But it's good to know definitely what dbus is using. On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 12:53 AM, Elf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the problem isnt nonblocking status. the problem is that all the term settings get munged by readline - how else could it interpret arrows, tabs, do paren bouncing, etc. You mean the same settings that can be changed via stty? I don't understand what effect that has. The usual kind of blocking that can be turned on is that when you are sitting at a shell prompt, keystrokes are not sent one-by-one, but rather it can wait until you hit the enter key and send the whole command all at once; this is a feature that can help with slow serial connections or packet networks. But I don't think that mode is in use much these days, and readline would be turning off that feature, right? because it has to see each keystroke in order to do all the tricks. Or you think it's on the output side, that the threads are blocked because output going from csi to the screen does not pass through until it is flushed? Then maybe a thread which does no output would run fine, but one which displays status messages would block? i am working on a pure scheme readlineish lib to compensate with approximately the same feature set as what is presently there. it should be done shortly. OK I'll look forward to it. So you don't have any philosophical problem with the idea that an egg which does polling should automatically start a thread to do that? however, instead of coding right now, im going through the almost 500 eggs to make sure that the licence data is correct (ie, the licence tag and the Doesn't sound like much fun. ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Web generation + localization.
On Thu, Mar 06, 2008 at 10:22:32AM +0100, Peter Bex wrote: I've spent a bit of time thinking about this (unfortunately, no time to code it up yet). At work we use Drupal, which simply requires you to wrap translatable strings with a function call to t(...). This is a solution that absolutely does not scale well because everytime it sees a t() call, it hits the database to retrieve the string. It caches pages, but still we see a lot of overhead in the roundtrips to the database for uncached pages. Beyond not scaling well, that approach is flawed from the get-go; see http://search.cpan.org/~petdance/Locale-Maketext-1.12/lib/Locale/Maketext/TPJ13.pod I'm planning on writing a maketext-alike for Chicken. That's somewhat a seperate issue, however. I was planning on using backing files rather than a database, but your (snipped) point about going to the backing source (whatever it happens to be) as few times as possible is a good one; thanks. -Robin -- Lojban Reason #17: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/ http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Revised Chapter 1 (reminder)
On 2008 Mar 06, at 09:08, Ashley Bone wrote: I'd suggest combining the paragrapsh on the MinGW/msys builds and just noting that makefiles exist for cmd.exe and msys. Done. John Cowan asked what the point of having both flavors. Back when I was doing Windows stuff, I normally built things via bash scripts (just as I do today on OSX). I did use MinGW/MSys (curse their weird capitalization) for exactly that, once or twice. But most of my coworkers were kind of locked into Windows, and trying to explain shell scripts to them would have been very stressful on all of us. So had I been building something for them to use, I probably would have created a batch file for building it, on the grounds that they would be more likely to understand it than a shell script. So my vote (even though I have no machines at present that need or even could use MinGW) goes to keeping both. -- v ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
[Chicken-users] Anyone working on a BDD framework?
I'm a big fan of rspec/jbehave/etc's Given/When/Then framework for doing BDD specifications. Before I go off and write my own (read: before I hack testbase to do it), has anyone already got such a thing for Chicken I can use? -Robin -- Lojban Reason #17: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/ http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] google summer of code
Alaric == Alaric Snell-Pym [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alaric I'm also keen on a proper library/module system, Alaric though. I'd like to be able to use multiple Alaric macro systems in the same source file, for a Alaric start. So something where chicken itself has a Alaric notion of a macro environment, and macro systems Alaric just register closures in an alist or whatever Alaric that (define-syntax ...) dispatches on to Alaric convert whatever the user supplies into a Alaric closure that rewrites syntax objects, then when Alaric the macro is invoked, that closure can be Alaric applied to perform the rewrite. Then the module Alaric system needs to know that there are two Alaric environments - values and syntax - to expose Alaric from modules and import into places, and all Alaric should be well. Surely? Actually, that would be far more work than I'd be interested in. The different macro systems all have their own representations of hygiene information, and getting them all to work together would be a pain. What I would probably end up doing is choosing a single macro system to be required for the module system. Probably riaxpander because Taylor Campbell will actively support it and it already handles syntax-rules, syntactic-closures and explicit renaming. Implementing syntax-case on top of it wouldn't be much work either if people really, honestly felt they wanted that (except identifier-syntax - it would be easy enough for someone else to add but I couldn't bring myself to dirty the macro semantics so badly). Though if people want syntax-case I'd like some rationale before working on it, and clear reasons as to why they don't like the more straightforward alternatives. Again, interoperability with non-module eggs is an important goal, so this wouldn't affect any existing eggs. -- Alex ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] srfi-29 egg problems: [EMAIL PROTECTED] doesn't seem to work?
On Thu, Mar 06, 2008 at 09:46:49AM +0100, felix winkelmann wrote: You need a version of format that is more capable than the builtin one (which builds on [sf]printf). Install format-modular or format, and load that before srfi-29. Did that; now I get: Error: (vector-ref) out of range #(12:00 Fred) 2 Call history: syntax(localized-message (quote goodbye) myname) syntax(quote goodbye) syntax(display #\newline) eval (display (localized-message (quote time) 12:00 myname)) eval (localized-message (quote time) 12:00 myname) eval [localized-message] (apply format (cons (localized-template (quote hello-program) message-name) args)) eval [localized-message] (cons (localized-template (quote hello-program) message-name) args) eval [localized-message] (localized-template (quote hello-program) message-name) -- Code attached. Not that it matters, as srfi-29 isn't sufficient for me (see http://search.cpan.org/~petdance/Locale-Maketext-1.12/lib/Locale/Maketext/TPJ13.pod ) but now I'm curious. :) -Robin -- Lojban Reason #17: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/ http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ (require-extension format-modular) (require-extension srfi-29) (let ((translations '(((en) . ((time . Its ~a, ~a.) (goodbye . Goodbye, ~a.))) ((fr) . ((time . [EMAIL PROTECTED], c'est ~a.) (goodbye . Au revoir, ~a.)) (for-each (lambda (translation) (let ((bundle-name (cons 'hello-program (car translation (declare-bundle! bundle-name (cdr translation translations)) (define localized-message (lambda (message-name . args) (apply format (cons (localized-template 'hello-program message-name) args (current-language 'fr) (let ((myname Fred)) (display (localized-message 'time 12:00 myname)) (display #\newline) (display (localized-message 'goodbye myname)) (display #\newline)) ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Revised Chapter 1 (reminder)
Vincent Manis scripsit: John Cowan asked what the point of having both flavors. Back when I was doing Windows stuff, I normally built things via bash scripts (just as I do today on OSX). I did use MinGW/MSys (curse their weird capitalization) for exactly that, once or twice. But most of my coworkers were kind of locked into Windows, and trying to explain shell scripts to them would have been very stressful on all of us. So had I been building something for them to use, I probably would have created a batch file for building it, on the grounds that they would be more likely to understand it than a shell script. Quite so, which is why I'd suggest that the msys version be scrapped and that everyone on Windows use either the cygwin or the mingw version. -- Andrew Watt on Microsoft: John Cowan Never in the field of human computing [EMAIL PROTECTED] has so much been paid by so manyhttp://www.ccil.org/~cowan to so few! (pace Winston Churchill) ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] chicken-setup broken
Hi Jim, Can you try r9257? I have committed some fixes to chicken-setup that would hopefully solve your problems. -Ivan Jim Ursetto [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, chicken-setup seems to be broken (r9210). -- Install of egg located in current directory fails: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~$ echo $TMPDIR $CHICKEN_TMPDIR [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~$ ll objc.egg -rw-r--r-- 1 root jim 64708 Jan 14 01:00 objc.egg [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~$ sudo chicken-setup objc Error: (open-input-file) can not open file - No such file or directory: /tmp/chicken-setup-3-root/downloads/objc.egg -- Install of downloaded egg fails: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~$ sudo chicken-setup hostinfo The extension hostinfo does not exist. Do you want to download it ? (yes/no/abort) [yes] yes downloading hostinfo.egg from (www.call-with-current-continuation.org eggs/3 80) Error: (open-input-file) can not open file - No such file or directory: /tmp/chicken-setup-3-root/downloads/tmp/chicken-setup-3-root/downloads/hostinfo... ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Revised Chapter 1 (reminder)
On 2008 Mar 06, at 21:22, John Cowan wrote: Quite so, which is why I'd suggest that the msys version be scrapped and that everyone on Windows use either the cygwin or the mingw version. Well, I actually don't care one way or the other. I'll change the documentation if a consensus emerges. -- v ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] chicken-setup broken
Ivan, Installation of downloaded eggs now works. However, installing an egg located in the current directory still fails, with a different path in the error. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~$ ll objc.egg -rw-r--r-- 1 root jim 64708 Jan 14 01:00 objc.egg [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~$ sudo chicken-setup objc Error: (open-input-file) can not open file - No such file or directory: objc.egg On 3/6/08, Ivan Raikov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jim, Can you try r9257? I have committed some fixes to chicken-setup that would hopefully solve your problems. Jim Ursetto [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: -- Install of egg located in current directory fails: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~$ echo $TMPDIR $CHICKEN_TMPDIR [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~$ ll objc.egg -rw-r--r-- 1 root jim 64708 Jan 14 01:00 objc.egg [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~$ sudo chicken-setup objc Error: (open-input-file) can not open file - No such file or directory: /tmp/chicken-setup-3-root/downloads/objc.egg ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
