Re: Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
- Original Message - From: "John Barnes" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: groupstudy.cisco Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 11:48 PM Subject: Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE! See comments below. --- "David L. Blair" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) What is the size of a token ring frame? My answer: Token ring has a variable frame size. His answer: 3 bytes.. Isn't that the size of the Token frame? Yes. 2) What the MTU of a token ring frame? (Isn't this about the same question as #1?) My answer: slightly larger that 16K (I couldn't remember the exact number) His answer: about 4470 bytes . He is correct. No, he isn't. Token ring has a variable MTU. Oops...the maximum is 18k. I'll go with Priscilla's answer over that of Mr. Giles :) Ahh... what? He claimed I was thinking about FDDI.g Ah. Who's thinking about what? 3) What is the decision making process involved when a packet enters a router? What three criteria are used to make this decision? My answer: It depends. Is this the first packet with this destination to arrive at this router? What switching mode is the router configured for. Most routers actually do not switch that requires a switching module in the router. Since routers have to make a routing decision on a packet, by default a router reads the whole packet before it makes a decision that is why routers forward packets slower than a switch. A switch is basically a fixed function bridge that can have one of three modes: Cut Through, Store and Forward, or Fragment Free. Actually, every router does. Unless you disable it with a no ip-route cache on the interface, almost every Cisco router does fast switching by default. This means the first packet is checked against the routing information base, then subsequent packets recieved on the same interface with the same destination are fast switched using the route cache, not process switched. Regardless, the first packet received for a given destination on an interface is ALWAYS process switched. His answer: Forget about that stuff. how does it determine which route to use. My answer: longest match in the routing table His answer: What if multiple routes exist in the table. My answer: It depends. Maybe I should have picked up on this stuff when the recruiter asked me with BGP was a DV or LS based routing protocol. My answer. ahh.neither, it's path vector. BGP is an External Gateway Protocol which most closely resembles DV. BGP is a Path Vector routing protocol, although it more closely resembles a DV, it is not. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
Well I was kind of wondering what variable maximum meant! ;-) Seriously, I just checked IEEE 802.5 and it doesn't specify a maximum frame size. It just says that the maximum token holding timer is 8.9 milliseconds. A station can hold onto the token while sending its bits for a maximum of 8.9 milliseconds. After 8.9 milliseconds, it must relinquish control of the token. So here's the math: 4 Mbps = 4000 bits in a millisecond In 8.9 milliseconds a station could send 8.9 x 4000 bits = 35600 bits 35600/8 = 4450 bytes For 16 Mbps, the max frame size = 4450 x 4 = 17800 bytes QED Priscilla At 08:15 AM 9/18/00, John Barnes wrote: - Original Message - From: "John Barnes" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: groupstudy.cisco Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 11:48 PM Subject: Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE! See comments below. --- "David L. Blair" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) What is the size of a token ring frame? My answer: Token ring has a variable frame size. His answer: 3 bytes.. Isn't that the size of the Token frame? Yes. 2) What the MTU of a token ring frame? (Isn't this about the same question as #1?) My answer: slightly larger that 16K (I couldn't remember the exact number) His answer: about 4470 bytes . He is correct. No, he isn't. Token ring has a variable MTU. Oops...the maximum is 18k. I'll go with Priscilla's answer over that of Mr. Giles :) Ahh... what? He claimed I was thinking about FDDI.g Ah. Who's thinking about what? 3) What is the decision making process involved when a packet enters a router? What three criteria are used to make this decision? My answer: It depends. Is this the first packet with this destination to arrive at this router? What switching mode is the router configured for. Most routers actually do not switch that requires a switching module in the router. Since routers have to make a routing decision on a packet, by default a router reads the whole packet before it makes a decision that is why routers forward packets slower than a switch. A switch is basically a fixed function bridge that can have one of three modes: Cut Through, Store and Forward, or Fragment Free. Actually, every router does. Unless you disable it with a no ip-route cache on the interface, almost every Cisco router does fast switching by default. This means the first packet is checked against the routing information base, then subsequent packets recieved on the same interface with the same destination are fast switched using the route cache, not process switched. Regardless, the first packet received for a given destination on an interface is ALWAYS process switched. His answer: Forget about that stuff. how does it determine which route to use. My answer: longest match in the routing table His answer: What if multiple routes exist in the table. My answer: It depends. Maybe I should have picked up on this stuff when the recruiter asked me with BGP was a DV or LS based routing protocol. My answer. ahh.neither, it's path vector. BGP is an External Gateway Protocol which most closely resembles DV. BGP is a Path Vector routing protocol, although it more closely resembles a DV, it is not. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
See comments below. --- "David L. Blair" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) What is the size of a token ring frame? My answer: Token ring has a variable frame size. His answer: 3 bytes.. Isn't that the size of the Token frame? Yes. 2) What the MTU of a token ring frame? (Isn't this about the same question as #1?) My answer: slightly larger that 16K (I couldn't remember the exact number) His answer: about 4470 bytes . He is correct. No, he isn't. Token ring has a variable MTU. Ahh... what? He claimed I was thinking about FDDI.g Ah. Who's thinking about what? 3) What is the decision making process involved when a packet enters a router? What three criteria are used to make this decision? My answer: It depends. Is this the first packet with this destination to arrive at this router? What switching mode is the router configured for. Most routers actually do not switch that requires a switching module in the router. Since routers have to make a routing decision on a packet, by default a router reads the whole packet before it makes a decision that is why routers forward packets slower than a switch. A switch is basically a fixed function bridge that can have one of three modes: Cut Through, Store and Forward, or Fragment Free. Actually, every router does. Unless you disable it with a no ip-route cache on the interface, almost every Cisco router does fast switching by default. This means the first packet is checked against the routing information base, then subsequent packets recieved on the same interface with the same destination are fast switched using the route cache, not process switched. Regardless, the first packet received for a given destination on an interface is ALWAYS process switched. His answer: Forget about that stuff. how does it determine which route to use. My answer: longest match in the routing table His answer: What if multiple routes exist in the table. My answer: It depends. Maybe I should have picked up on this stuff when the recruiter asked me with BGP was a DV or LS based routing protocol. My answer. ahh.neither, it's path vector. BGP is an External Gateway Protocol which most closely resembles DV. BGP is a Path Vector routing protocol, although it more closely resembles a DV, it is not. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
Starting with the Front-engined models introduced in the late 1990's, all of
them.
Original Message Follows
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Cthulu, CCIE Candidate" [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:29:23 -0400
/
As a prior owner of a 1967 Volkswagen Beetle,I don't know of any Volkswagen
Beetle that had a radiatior.
\
Quoting "Cthulu, CCIE Candidate" [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
There is also the possiblity that the CCIE was testing you, to see how
you
would handle one of your fellow workers spouting wrong information.
I have sometimes deliberately and incorrectly stated some wrong
information
to find out exactly how much someone knew about something, and how they
would handle it to hear someone else give out incorrect information.
It 's like an experienced mechanic asking a new mechanic "How often do
you
change the flush the radiator in a 1969 Volkswagen Beetle?" as a way of
determing what they know.
Just a thought!
Charles
P.S. You don't: the 1969 beetle does not have a radiator!
""Leigh Anne Chisholm"" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
001c01c01f48$07320980$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:001c01c01f48$07320980$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
John/Sam
I interviewed with an organization recently and completely blew one
question. I was asked what in an SMTP header will help troubleshoot
email
delivery problems. Now I immediately start thinking about framing
formats,
and I don't know the frame format of an SMTP header. I panic. I say I
don't know.
I get home, I realize they weren't asking what field in a frame, but
rather what information in the header that you can see as plain as day
that
gets tacked on to an email message. I feel very silly...
I emailed the hiring manager, and asked if this is what they were
referring to, and provided him with a few examples of when I've used the
SMTP header to troubleshoot delivery problems before.
If I get the job, wonderful--they like my initiative following up. If
I
don't... oh well. I've been thinking about changing careers, because
there
are very few companies in my city that I would like to work for...
John--what if the CCIE was trying to find out not just what technical
knowledge you had, but how you handled difficult situations where two
people
who worked together thought differently about what was right. Would you
defer to the CCIE just because they're a CCIE or would you take
initiative
to find the correct answer? Would you follow up? Maybe... maybe not.
It's
hard to guess what's going on in the heads of interviewers. I like to
keep
a positive attitude and not think the worst. I'd HATE to think a CCIE
wouldn't know simple network concepts.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of
Sam Adams
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 10:57 AM
To: 'John Barnes'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
John,
Besides the technical questions, how was the chemistry between you
and
the
interviewer? I know I went through a recent interview and I left
wondering
if I wanted to work with the interviewer. Needless to say, I
wasn't offered
a second interview. Guess he felt the same.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of
John Barnes
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 3:09 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
I had technical with a CCIE interview yesterday, and
I'm not really sure were to go with this.
He asked me a lot of pretty high level questions and
some not so high level, the problem is, I feel some of
the answers he wanted were wrong. I'm going to post
the questions, the answers I gave, and the answers he
claimed to be correct. If I'm wrong on these, I'd
like to know. If I'm right, how would you deal with
this kind of thing?
1) What is the size of a token ring frame?
My answer: Token ring has a variable frame size.
His answer: 3 bytes..
Isn't that the size of the Token frame?
2) What the MTU of a token ring frame? (Isn't this
about the same question as #1?)
My answer: slightly larger that 16K (I couldn't
remember the exact number)
His answer: about 4470 bytes .
Ahh... what? He claimed I was thinking about
FDDI.g Ah. Who's thinking about what?
3) What is the decision making process involved when a
packet enters a router? What three criteria are used
to make this decision?
My answer: It depends. Is this the first
packet with this destination to arr
Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
John, I'll leave the technical answers to others on the list who are more qualified, but here's my $0.02 on your situation. Even if you empirically prove that you are/were right and he is/was wrong, you probably don't want to work at this company or at least take this particular job. I'm assuming that since this person was interviewing you, you would be interacting with him in some way on the job. And I am assuming that since they had him interview you, he is most likely the "top dog" skills wise in that group, as well as the favorite of the hiring manager. So, even if you were to go back, correct this misunderstanding, and get the job; if you had to work with this guy every day, you would most likely be miserable in a short amount of time. If these questions are indicative of the skill set of their best technical guy, based on the intelligence of your answers, you would be frustrated quickly working with him. When I interview with a company, I interview the people I meet as hard or harder (in most cases) than they interview me. Even if you are up to this companies standards, they probably aren't up to yours, so I'd take a pass. There are many more jobs out there that you are clearly qualified for. Good Luck, Jim "John Barnes" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I had technical with a CCIE interview yesterday, and I'm not really sure were to go with this. He asked me a lot of pretty high level questions and some not so high level, the problem is, I feel some of the answers he wanted were wrong. I'm going to post the questions, the answers I gave, and the answers he claimed to be correct. If I'm wrong on these, I'd like to know. If I'm right, how would you deal with this kind of thing? 1) What is the size of a token ring frame? My answer: Token ring has a variable frame size. His answer: 3 bytes.. Isn't that the size of the Token frame? 2) What the MTU of a token ring frame? (Isn't this about the same question as #1?) My answer: slightly larger that 16K (I couldn't remember the exact number) His answer: about 4470 bytes . Ahh... what? He claimed I was thinking about FDDI.g Ah. Who's thinking about what? 3) What is the decision making process involved when a packet enters a router? What three criteria are used to make this decision? My answer: It depends. Is this the first packet with this destination to arrive at this router? What switching mode is the router configured for. His answer: Forget about that stuff. how does it determine which route to use. My answer: longest match in the routing table His answer: What if multiple routes exist in the table. My answer: It depends. Ok...I'm gonna cut to the chase. The answer he wanted was longest match, Administrative distance, then metric. Ahh.. I'm pretty sure is wrong. The router looks at AD and Metrics long before the packet enters the router. The router uses AD and metric to populate the routing table, and then longest match from the routing table to make the decision once the packet actually enters the router. Comparing AD and metric on every known route every time would place unnecessary burden on the CPU. Compare it once, make the decision, and enter it in the RIT. Even in the case of IGRP/EIGRP with variance, the next eligible route is determined before the packet enters the router. Maybe I should have picked up on this stuff when the recruiter asked me with BGP was a DV or LS based routing protocol. My answer. ahh.neither, it's path vector. I'm basically sending this out to get thoughts, and hopefully Howard, Priscilla or someone can tell me wether I'm off technically or not. THANKS! -john __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
John, Besides the technical questions, how was the chemistry between you and the interviewer? I know I went through a recent interview and I left wondering if I wanted to work with the interviewer. Needless to say, I wasn't offered a second interview. Guess he felt the same. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Barnes Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 3:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE! I had technical with a CCIE interview yesterday, and Im not really sure were to go with this. He asked me a lot of pretty high level questions and some not so high level, the problem is, I feel some of the answers he wanted were wrong. Im going to post the questions, the answers I gave, and the answers he claimed to be correct. If Im wrong on these, Id like to know. If Im right, how would you deal with this kind of thing? 1) What is the size of a token ring frame? My answer: Token ring has a variable frame size. His answer: 3 bytes.. Isnt that the size of the Token frame? 2) What the MTU of a token ring frame? (Isnt this about the same question as #1?) My answer: slightly larger that 16K (I couldnt remember the exact number) His answer: about 4470 bytes . Ahh .. what? He claimed I was thinking about FDDI g Ah Whos thinking about what? 3) What is the decision making process involved when a packet enters a router? What three criteria are used to make this decision? My answer: It depends. Is this the first packet with this destination to arrive at this router? What switching mode is the router configured for. His answer: Forget about that stuff how does it determine which route to use. My answer: longest match in the routing table His answer: What if multiple routes exist in the table. My answer: It depends. Ok ..Im gonna cut to the chase The answer he wanted was longest match, Administrative distance, then metric. Ahh . Im pretty sure is wrong. The router looks at AD and Metrics long before the packet enters the router. The router uses AD and metric to populate the routing table, and then longest match from the routing table to make the decision once the packet actually enters the router. Comparing AD and metric on every known route every time would place unnecessary burden on the CPU. Compare it once, make the decision, and enter it in the RIT. Even in the case of IGRP/EIGRP with variance, the next eligible route is determined before the packet enters the router. Maybe I should have picked up on this stuff when the recruiter asked me with BGP was a DV or LS based routing protocol. My answer ahh neither, its path vector. Im basically sending this out to get thoughts, and hopefully Howard, Priscilla or someone can tell me wether Im off technically or not. THANKS! -john __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
John/Sam I interviewed with an organization recently and completely blew one question. I was asked what in an SMTP header will help troubleshoot email delivery problems. Now I immediately start thinking about framing formats, and I don't know the frame format of an SMTP header. I panic. I say I don't know. I get home, I realize they weren't asking what field in a frame, but rather what information in the header that you can see as plain as day that gets tacked on to an email message. I feel very silly... I emailed the hiring manager, and asked if this is what they were referring to, and provided him with a few examples of when I've used the SMTP header to troubleshoot delivery problems before. If I get the job, wonderful--they like my initiative following up. If I don't... oh well. I've been thinking about changing careers, because there are very few companies in my city that I would like to work for... John--what if the CCIE was trying to find out not just what technical knowledge you had, but how you handled difficult situations where two people who worked together thought differently about what was right. Would you defer to the CCIE just because they're a CCIE or would you take initiative to find the correct answer? Would you follow up? Maybe... maybe not. It's hard to guess what's going on in the heads of interviewers. I like to keep a positive attitude and not think the worst. I'd HATE to think a CCIE wouldn't know simple network concepts. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sam Adams Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 10:57 AM To: 'John Barnes'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE! John, Besides the technical questions, how was the chemistry between you and the interviewer? I know I went through a recent interview and I left wondering if I wanted to work with the interviewer. Needless to say, I wasn't offered a second interview. Guess he felt the same. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Barnes Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 3:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE! I had technical with a CCIE interview yesterday, and Im not really sure were to go with this. He asked me a lot of pretty high level questions and some not so high level, the problem is, I feel some of the answers he wanted were wrong. Im going to post the questions, the answers I gave, and the answers he claimed to be correct. If Im wrong on these, Id like to know. If Im right, how would you deal with this kind of thing? 1)What is the size of a token ring frame? My answer: Token ring has a variable frame size. His answer: 3 bytes.. Isnt that the size of the Token frame? 2)What the MTU of a token ring frame? (Isnt this about the same question as #1?) My answer: slightly larger that 16K (I couldnt remember the exact number) His answer: about 4470 bytes . Ahh .. what? He claimed I was thinking about FDDI g Ah Whos thinking about what? 3)What is the decision making process involved when a packet enters a router? What three criteria are used to make this decision? My answer: It depends. Is this the first packet with this destination to arrive at this router? What switching mode is the router configured for. His answer: Forget about that stuff how does it determine which route to use. My answer: longest match in the routing table His answer: What if multiple routes exist in the table. My answer: It depends. Ok ..Im gonna cut to the chase The answer he wanted was longest match, Administrative distance, then metric. Ahh . Im pretty sure is wrong. The router looks at AD and Metrics long before the packet enters the router. The router uses AD and metric to populate the routing table, and then longest match from the routing table to make the decision once the packet actually enters the router. Comparing AD and metric on every known route every time would place unnecessary burden on the CPU. Compare it once, make the decision, and enter it in the RIT. Even in the case of IGRP/EIGRP with variance, the next eligible route is determined before the packet enters the router. Maybe I should have picked up on this stuff when the recruiter asked me with BGP was a DV or LS based routing protocol. My answer ahh neither, its path vector. Im basically sending this out to get thoughts, and hopefully Howard, Priscilla or someone can tell me wether Im off technically or not. THANKS! -john __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more
Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
There is also the possiblity that the CCIE was testing you, to see how you would handle one of your fellow workers spouting wrong information. I have sometimes deliberately and incorrectly stated some wrong information to find out exactly how much someone knew about something, and how they would handle it to hear someone else give out incorrect information. It 's like an experienced mechanic asking a new mechanic "How often do you change the flush the radiator in a 1969 Volkswagen Beetle?" as a way of determing what they know. Just a thought! Charles P.S. You don't: the 1969 beetle does not have a radiator! ""Leigh Anne Chisholm"" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 001c01c01f48$07320980$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:001c01c01f48$07320980$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... John/Sam I interviewed with an organization recently and completely blew one question. I was asked what in an SMTP header will help troubleshoot email delivery problems. Now I immediately start thinking about framing formats, and I don't know the frame format of an SMTP header. I panic. I say I don't know. I get home, I realize they weren't asking what field in a frame, but rather what information in the header that you can see as plain as day that gets tacked on to an email message. I feel very silly... I emailed the hiring manager, and asked if this is what they were referring to, and provided him with a few examples of when I've used the SMTP header to troubleshoot delivery problems before. If I get the job, wonderful--they like my initiative following up. If I don't... oh well. I've been thinking about changing careers, because there are very few companies in my city that I would like to work for... John--what if the CCIE was trying to find out not just what technical knowledge you had, but how you handled difficult situations where two people who worked together thought differently about what was right. Would you defer to the CCIE just because they're a CCIE or would you take initiative to find the correct answer? Would you follow up? Maybe... maybe not. It's hard to guess what's going on in the heads of interviewers. I like to keep a positive attitude and not think the worst. I'd HATE to think a CCIE wouldn't know simple network concepts. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sam Adams Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 10:57 AM To: 'John Barnes'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE! John, Besides the technical questions, how was the chemistry between you and the interviewer? I know I went through a recent interview and I left wondering if I wanted to work with the interviewer. Needless to say, I wasn't offered a second interview. Guess he felt the same. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Barnes Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 3:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE! I had technical with a CCIE interview yesterday, and I'm not really sure were to go with this. He asked me a lot of pretty high level questions and some not so high level, the problem is, I feel some of the answers he wanted were wrong. I'm going to post the questions, the answers I gave, and the answers he claimed to be correct. If I'm wrong on these, I'd like to know. If I'm right, how would you deal with this kind of thing? 1) What is the size of a token ring frame? My answer: Token ring has a variable frame size. His answer: 3 bytes.. Isn't that the size of the Token frame? 2) What the MTU of a token ring frame? (Isn't this about the same question as #1?) My answer: slightly larger that 16K (I couldn't remember the exact number) His answer: about 4470 bytes . Ahh... what? He claimed I was thinking about FDDI.g Ah. Who's thinking about what? 3) What is the decision making process involved when a packet enters a router? What three criteria are used to make this decision? My answer: It depends. Is this the first packet with this destination to arrive at this router? What switching mode is the router configured for. His answer: Forget about that stuff. how does it determine which route to use. My answer: longest match in the routing table His answer: What if multiple routes exist in the table. My answer: It depends. Ok...I'm gonna cut to the chase. The answer he wanted was longest match, Administrative distance, then metric. Ahh.. I'm pretty sure is wrong. The router looks at AD and Metrics long before the packet enters the router. The router uses AD and metric to populate the routing table, and then longest match from the routing table to make the decision once the packet actually enters the router. Co
Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
/ As a prior owner of a 1967 Volkswagen Beetle,I don't know of any Volkswagen Beetle that had a radiatior. \ Quoting "Cthulu, CCIE Candidate" [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There is also the possiblity that the CCIE was testing you, to see how you would handle one of your fellow workers spouting wrong information. I have sometimes deliberately and incorrectly stated some wrong information to find out exactly how much someone knew about something, and how they would handle it to hear someone else give out incorrect information. It 's like an experienced mechanic asking a new mechanic "How often do you change the flush the radiator in a 1969 Volkswagen Beetle?" as a way of determing what they know. Just a thought! Charles P.S. You don't: the 1969 beetle does not have a radiator! ""Leigh Anne Chisholm"" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 001c01c01f48$07320980$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:001c01c01f48$07320980$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... John/Sam I interviewed with an organization recently and completely blew one question. I was asked what in an SMTP header will help troubleshoot email delivery problems. Now I immediately start thinking about framing formats, and I don't know the frame format of an SMTP header. I panic. I say I don't know. I get home, I realize they weren't asking what field in a frame, but rather what information in the header that you can see as plain as day that gets tacked on to an email message. I feel very silly... I emailed the hiring manager, and asked if this is what they were referring to, and provided him with a few examples of when I've used the SMTP header to troubleshoot delivery problems before. If I get the job, wonderful--they like my initiative following up. If I don't... oh well. I've been thinking about changing careers, because there are very few companies in my city that I would like to work for... John--what if the CCIE was trying to find out not just what technical knowledge you had, but how you handled difficult situations where two people who worked together thought differently about what was right. Would you defer to the CCIE just because they're a CCIE or would you take initiative to find the correct answer? Would you follow up? Maybe... maybe not. It's hard to guess what's going on in the heads of interviewers. I like to keep a positive attitude and not think the worst. I'd HATE to think a CCIE wouldn't know simple network concepts. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sam Adams Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 10:57 AM To: 'John Barnes'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE! John, Besides the technical questions, how was the chemistry between you and the interviewer? I know I went through a recent interview and I left wondering if I wanted to work with the interviewer. Needless to say, I wasn't offered a second interview. Guess he felt the same. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Barnes Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 3:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE! I had technical with a CCIE interview yesterday, and I'm not really sure were to go with this. He asked me a lot of pretty high level questions and some not so high level, the problem is, I feel some of the answers he wanted were wrong. I'm going to post the questions, the answers I gave, and the answers he claimed to be correct. If I'm wrong on these, I'd like to know. If I'm right, how would you deal with this kind of thing? 1) What is the size of a token ring frame? My answer: Token ring has a variable frame size. His answer: 3 bytes.. Isn't that the size of the Token frame? 2) What the MTU of a token ring frame? (Isn't this about the same question as #1?) My answer: slightly larger that 16K (I couldn't remember the exact number) His answer: about 4470 bytes . Ahh... what? He claimed I was thinking about FDDI.g Ah. Who's thinking about what? 3) What is the decision making process involved when a packet enters a router? What three criteria are used to make this decision? My answer: It depends. Is this the first packet with this destination to arrive at this router? What switching mode is the router configured for. His answer: Forget about that stuff. how does it determine which route to use. My answer: longest match in the routing table His answer: What if multiple routes exist in the table. My answer: It depends. Ok...I'm gonna cut to the chase. The answer he wanted was longest match, Administrative distance, then metric.
Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
I had technical with a CCIE interview yesterday, and Im not really sure were to go with this. He asked me a lot of pretty high level questions and some not so high level, the problem is, I feel some of the answers he wanted were wrong. Im going to post the questions, the answers I gave, and the answers he claimed to be correct. If Im wrong on these, Id like to know. If Im right, how would you deal with this kind of thing? 1) What is the size of a token ring frame? My answer: Token ring has a variable frame size. His answer: 3 bytes.. Isnt that the size of the Token frame? 2) What the MTU of a token ring frame? (Isnt this about the same question as #1?) My answer: slightly larger that 16K (I couldnt remember the exact number) His answer: about 4470 bytes . Ahh .. what? He claimed I was thinking about FDDI g Ah Whos thinking about what? 3) What is the decision making process involved when a packet enters a router? What three criteria are used to make this decision? My answer: It depends. Is this the first packet with this destination to arrive at this router? What switching mode is the router configured for. His answer: Forget about that stuff how does it determine which route to use. My answer: longest match in the routing table His answer: What if multiple routes exist in the table. My answer: It depends. Ok ..Im gonna cut to the chase The answer he wanted was longest match, Administrative distance, then metric. Ahh . Im pretty sure is wrong. The router looks at AD and Metrics long before the packet enters the router. The router uses AD and metric to populate the routing table, and then longest match from the routing table to make the decision once the packet actually enters the router. Comparing AD and metric on every known route every time would place unnecessary burden on the CPU. Compare it once, make the decision, and enter it in the RIT. Even in the case of IGRP/EIGRP with variance, the next eligible route is determined before the packet enters the router. Maybe I should have picked up on this stuff when the recruiter asked me with BGP was a DV or LS based routing protocol. My answer ahh neither, its path vector. Im basically sending this out to get thoughts, and hopefully Howard, Priscilla or someone can tell me wether Im off technically or not. THANKS! -john __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
1. The question is ambiguous. If it is asking what is the Token Frame size, the answer is 3-bytes. (Starting Delimiter, 1-byte, Access Control, 1-byte, and End Delimeter, 1-byte). You are right in your answer, the Frame size in TR is variable, I would have answered it the same way. 2. The average MTU for Token is 4,464, however, the data portion can contain up to 17,800 bytes, for a MAXIMUM MTU (sorry for the redundant redundancy) is 17,997. Cisco supports MTUs of 68-17,997 bytes. The MTU for FDDI is 4,500. 3. Routing decision: 1) Most specific route 2) Administrative Distance For instance, you might have a Routing table that says: Gateway of last resort not set R39.0.0.0/8 [120/1] via 172.16.1.20, FastEthernet0/0 R39.0.1.0/24 [120/1] via 172.16.1.19, FastEthernet0/0 C 172.16.0.0 is directly connected, FastEthernet0/0 If you send a packet to 39.0.1.33, it is going to use 172.16.1.19, and not 172.16.1.20 because it is the most specific route. If the route through 172.16.1.19 was not in there, and there was both an EIGRP learned route, and the RIP route shown to 39.0.1.0, the EIGRP route would be used. Why? Because its route has a lower Administrative Distance. Remember, the router only places multiple equal-cost routes in the table, or the single route with the lowest Administrative Distance. Metrics are only used in path selection within a specific routing process, not for final path selection. That is why we all had to learn iBgp = 200, RIP=120, OSPF=110, IGRP=100, EIGRP=90, eBgp=20, etc. Each routing process will present its BEST route (based on the metrics available to it) for final path selection. That final path is chosen from the type of route it is. K - Kristopher B. Climie, CCNP, CCDP "John Barnes" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I had technical with a CCIE interview yesterday, and I'm not really sure were to go with this. He asked me a lot of pretty high level questions and some not so high level, the problem is, I feel some of the answers he wanted were wrong. I'm going to post the questions, the answers I gave, and the answers he claimed to be correct. If I'm wrong on these, I'd like to know. If I'm right, how would you deal with this kind of thing? 1) What is the size of a token ring frame? My answer: Token ring has a variable frame size. His answer: 3 bytes.. Isn't that the size of the Token frame? 2) What the MTU of a token ring frame? (Isn't this about the same question as #1?) My answer: slightly larger that 16K (I couldn't remember the exact number) His answer: about 4470 bytes . Ahh... what? He claimed I was thinking about FDDI.g Ah. Who's thinking about what? 3) What is the decision making process involved when a packet enters a router? What three criteria are used to make this decision? My answer: It depends. Is this the first packet with this destination to arrive at this router? What switching mode is the router configured for. His answer: Forget about that stuff. how does it determine which route to use. My answer: longest match in the routing table His answer: What if multiple routes exist in the table. My answer: It depends. Ok...I'm gonna cut to the chase. The answer he wanted was longest match, Administrative distance, then metric. Ahh.. I'm pretty sure is wrong. The router looks at AD and Metrics long before the packet enters the router. The router uses AD and metric to populate the routing table, and then longest match from the routing table to make the decision once the packet actually enters the router. Comparing AD and metric on every known route every time would place unnecessary burden on the CPU. Compare it once, make the decision, and enter it in the RIT. Even in the case of IGRP/EIGRP with variance, the next eligible route is determined before the packet enters the router. Maybe I should have picked up on this stuff when the recruiter asked me with BGP was a DV or LS based routing protocol. My answer. ahh.neither, it's path vector. I'm basically sending this out to get thoughts, and hopefully Howard, Priscilla or someone can tell me wether I'm off technically or not. THANKS! -john __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html
Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
Don't go work for that guy! ;-) See more below: At 03:09 PM 9/14/00, John Barnes wrote: I had technical with a CCIE interview yesterday, and snip 1) What is the size of a token ring frame? My answer: Token ring has a variable frame size. His answer: 3 bytes.. Isnt that the size of the Token frame? That would be the token. 2) What the MTU of a token ring frame? (Isnt this about the same question as #1?) My answer: slightly larger that 16K (I couldnt remember the exact number) His answer: about 4470 bytes . 18K on 16-Mbps Token Ring. 4470 bytes on 4-Mbps Token Ring AND FDDI. (Technically, both depend on the token-holding timer, which has a default, non-configurable value for Token Ring and is configurable for FDDI. But the max frame is based on the max the timer could be set to and a network of maximum size.) Ahh .. what? He claimed I was thinking about FDDI g Ah Whos thinking about what? 3) What is the decision making process involved when a packet enters a router? What three criteria are used to make this decision? My answer: It depends. Is this the first packet with this destination to arrive at this router? What switching mode is the router configured for. Excellent answer. His answer: Forget about that stuff how does it determine which route to use. My answer: longest match in the routing table His answer: What if multiple routes exist in the table. My answer: It depends. Ok ..Im gonna cut to the chase The answer he wanted was longest match, Administrative distance, then metric. Ahh . Im pretty sure is wrong. The router looks at AD and Metrics long before the packet enters the router. The router uses AD and metric to populate the routing table, and then longest match from the routing table to make the decision once the packet actually enters the router. Comparing AD and metric on every known route every time would place unnecessary burden on the CPU. Compare it once, make the decision, and enter it in the RIT. Even in the case of IGRP/EIGRP with variance, the next eligible route is determined before the packet enters the router. Well if the router learns a more specific route from a routing protocol, that replaces a less specific. To quote Howard, "A summary route from the latest, greatest OSPF implementation will be overridden by a RIP subnet route from an old UNIX box." Then AD comes into play. Metrics are used as a tie-breaker for routes learned from the same dynamic routing protocol (i.e., breaking ties between routes of the same administrative distance). To move onto frame forwarding, when a route is looked up in the routing table, the main criterion is most specific prefix match. For example, the most specific possible match is a host route or /32 prefix, while the least specific possible match is the default route of 0.0.0.0/0. See Howard's paper on Routing Principles at www.certificationzone.com for a great explanation of how all this works. He's the expert! Maybe I should have picked up on this stuff when the recruiter asked me with BGP was a DV or LS based routing protocol. My answer ahh neither, its path vector. Reminds me of the time years ago when the technical recruiter asked me the difference between asynchronous and BISYNC. (He meant to say asynch VS synch and had actually never heard of BISYNC. He didn't understand my answer and didn't hire me. Just as well, I think!) Priscilla Im basically sending this out to get thoughts, and hopefully Howard, Priscilla or someone can tell me wether Im off technically or not. THANKS! -john __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
See Inline: 1) What is the size of a token ring frame? My answer: Token ring has a variable frame size. His answer: 3 bytes.. Isn't that the size of the Token frame? There are 3 Token Frame Fields - Start Delimiter - Access-Control Byte - End Delimiter http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/cisintwk/ito_doc/tokenrng.htm (Watch the word wrap) 2) What the MTU of a token ring frame? (Isn't this about the same question as #1?) My answer: slightly larger that 16K (I couldn't remember the exact number) His answer: about 4470 bytes . Ahh... what? He claimed I was thinking about FDDI.g Ah. Who's thinking about what? That is variable, but check here: http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/482/11.html 3) What is the decision making process involved when a packet enters a router? What three criteria are used to make this decision? My answer: It depends. Is this the first packet with this destination to arrive at this router? What switching mode is the router configured for. His answer: Forget about that stuff. how does it determine which route to use. Hang on here... Did we go from 1 question (what is the decision making process...) to another question (how does it determine which route to use)? My answer: longest match in the routing table Good answer His answer: What if multiple routes exist in the table. Ouch My answer: It depends. Ok...I'm gonna cut to the chase. The answer he wanted was longest match, Administrative distance, then metric. Ahh.. I'm pretty sure is wrong. The router looks at AD and Metrics long before the packet enters the router. The router uses AD and metric to populate the routing table, and then longest match from the routing table to make the decision once the packet actually enters the router. Comparing AD and metric on every known route every time would place unnecessary burden on the CPU. Compare it once, make the decision, and enter it in the RIT. Even in the case of IGRP/EIGRP with variance, the next eligible route is determined before the packet enters the router. Well, that's kind of a crappy question, IMHO. Maybe he was just trying to get an idea of your thought process. Consider it a learning experience. btw. How much T/R does this guy use/run into? He sounds like the CCIE written. Bob **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
Comments inline.. stuff snipped. --- John Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2)What the MTU of a token ring frame? His answer: about 4470 bytes . He's right... MTU is Max Transfer Unit which can be adjusted but the default is around 4470 for Token Ring and Ethernet is 1500 (Cisco default), 1600 (BayRS default). Ethernet frame is 1518 bytes. Ahh .. what? He claimed I was thinking about FDDI g Ah Whos thinking about what? FDDI is similar to Token Ring. Don't have the #s off the top of my head at moment (been a long day/week). 3)What is the decision making process involved when a packet enters a router? What three criteria are used to make this decision? My answer: It depends. Is this the first packet with this destination to arrive at this router? What switching mode is the router configured for. Switching mode is router-specific and part of the forwarding method... so... I wouldn't even think about switching/forwarding methods until after the stuff he's after is answered , then maybe mention it as a plus. One of the three things looked at is the destination address, else it doesn't know where to forward it. E __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help about a technical interview I had PLEASE!
I seem to be having a problem getting my posts to go through. My apologies if this shows up multiple times. K --- 1. The question is ambiguous. If it is asking what is the Token Frame size, the answer is 3-bytes. (Starting Delimiter, 1-byte, Access Control, 1-byte, and End Delimeter, 1-byte). You are right in your answer, the Frame size in TR is variable, I would have answered it the same way. 2. The average MTU for Token is 4,464, however, the data portion can contain up to 17,800 bytes, for a MAXIMUM MTU (sorry for the redundant redundancy) is 17,997. Cisco supports MTUs of 68-17,997 bytes. The MTU for FDDI is 4,500. 3. Routing decision: 1) Most specific route 2) Administrative Distance For instance, you might have a Routing table that says: Gateway of last resort not set R39.0.0.0/8 [120/1] via 172.16.1.20, FastEthernet0/0 R39.0.1.0/24 [120/1] via 172.16.1.19, FastEthernet0/0 C 172.16.0.0 is directly connected, FastEthernet0/0 If you send a packet to 39.0.1.33, it is going to use 172.16.1.19, and not 172.16.1.20 because it is the most specific route. If the route through 172.16.1.19 was not in there, and there was both an EIGRP learned route, and the RIP route shown to 39.0.1.0, the EIGRP route would be used. Why? Because its route has a lower Administrative Distance. Remember, the router only places multiple equal-cost routes in the table, or the single route with the lowest Administrative Distance. Metrics are only used in path selection within a specific routing process, not for final path selection. That is why we all had to learn iBgp = 200, RIP=120, OSPF=110, IGRP=100, EIGRP=90, eBgp=20, etc. Each routing process will present its BEST route (based on the metrics available to it) for final path selection. That final path is chosen from the type of route it is. K - Kristopher B. Climie, CCNP, CCDP "John Barnes" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I had technical with a CCIE interview yesterday, and I'm not really sure were to go with this. He asked me a lot of pretty high level questions and some not so high level, the problem is, I feel some of the answers he wanted were wrong. I'm going to post the questions, the answers I gave, and the answers he claimed to be correct. If I'm wrong on these, I'd like to know. If I'm right, how would you deal with this kind of thing? 1) What is the size of a token ring frame? My answer: Token ring has a variable frame size. His answer: 3 bytes.. Isn't that the size of the Token frame? 2) What the MTU of a token ring frame? (Isn't this about the same question as #1?) My answer: slightly larger that 16K (I couldn't remember the exact number) His answer: about 4470 bytes . Ahh... what? He claimed I was thinking about FDDI.g Ah. Who's thinking about what? 3) What is the decision making process involved when a packet enters a router? What three criteria are used to make this decision? My answer: It depends. Is this the first packet with this destination to arrive at this router? What switching mode is the router configured for. His answer: Forget about that stuff. how does it determine which route to use. My answer: longest match in the routing table His answer: What if multiple routes exist in the table. My answer: It depends. Ok...I'm gonna cut to the chase. The answer he wanted was longest match, Administrative distance, then metric. Ahh.. I'm pretty sure is wrong. The router looks at AD and Metrics long before the packet enters the router. The router uses AD and metric to populate the routing table, and then longest match from the routing table to make the decision once the packet actually enters the router. Comparing AD and metric on every known route every time would place unnecessary burden on the CPU. Compare it once, make the decision, and enter it in the RIT. Even in the case of IGRP/EIGRP with variance, the next eligible route is determined before the packet enters the router. Maybe I should have picked up on this stuff when the recruiter asked me with BGP was a DV or LS based routing protocol. My answer. ahh.neither, it's path vector. I'm basically sending this out to get thoughts, and hopefully Howard, Priscilla or someone can tell me wether I'm off technically or not. THANKS! -john __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ **NOTE: New CCNA/CCDA List has been formed. For more information go to http://www.groupstudy.com/list/Associates.html _ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] **NOTE: New
