Re: MZMaker & IOS c2500-js-l.12.1.10 [7:32748]
Lost me there. 16Mb is max on 2500's. Surely it's not a 2500 image which won't run on any 2500's? If he had 16Mb available for RAM it would be fine. Gaz ""Jason"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > You don't have enuff DRAM. Even if you have full 16 meg, it is not enuff > > JW > > ""Will Francis"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Hi Guys > > > > I'm just in the process of building my home lab and I read quite a few > > previous posting suggesting that one can use MZMAKER to compress > enterprise > > version of IOS 12.1 to run from a 2500 series router with 8mb flash and > > 16mb Dram. > > > > I just tried this and my router just keep on rebooting itself, any ideas > at > > all will be greatly appreciated. > > > > System Bootstrap, Version 11.0(10c), SOFTWARE > > Copyright (c) 1986-1996 by cisco Systems > > 2500 processor with 14336 Kbytes of main memory > > > > %SYS-4-CONFIG_NEWER: Configurations from version 12.0 may not be correctly > > understood.F3: 8564+6636705+165012 at 0x1000 > > > > Error : memory requirements exceed available memory > > Memory required : 0x00E392A4 > > > > Exception: Software forced crash at 0x111E (PC) > > > > > > Thanks in advance !!! > > > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Stanley. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=32791&t=32748 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MZMaker & IOS c2500-js-l.12.1.10 [7:32748]
You don't have enuff DRAM. Even if you have full 16 meg, it is not enuff JW ""Will Francis"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Hi Guys > > I'm just in the process of building my home lab and I read quite a few > previous posting suggesting that one can use MZMAKER to compress enterprise > version of IOS 12.1 to run from a 2500 series router with 8mb flash and > 16mb Dram. > > I just tried this and my router just keep on rebooting itself, any ideas at > all will be greatly appreciated. > > System Bootstrap, Version 11.0(10c), SOFTWARE > Copyright (c) 1986-1996 by cisco Systems > 2500 processor with 14336 Kbytes of main memory > > %SYS-4-CONFIG_NEWER: Configurations from version 12.0 may not be correctly > understood.F3: 8564+6636705+165012 at 0x1000 > > Error : memory requirements exceed available memory > Memory required : 0x00E392A4 > > Exception: Software forced crash at 0x111E (PC) > > > Thanks in advance !!! > > -- > Regards, > > Stanley. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=32777&t=32748 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MZMaker & IOS c2500-js-l.12.1.10 [7:32748]
Hi Guys I just tried all my 2500 series router and out of 7 only 1 works so for the record you guys are correct with regards to these memory issues. cheers ""Will Francis"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Hi Guys > > I'm just in the process of building my home lab and I read quite a few > previous posting suggesting that one can use MZMAKER to compress enterprise > version of IOS 12.1 to run from a 2500 series router with 8mb flash and > 16mb Dram. > > I just tried this and my router just keep on rebooting itself, any ideas at > all will be greatly appreciated. > > System Bootstrap, Version 11.0(10c), SOFTWARE > Copyright (c) 1986-1996 by cisco Systems > 2500 processor with 14336 Kbytes of main memory > > %SYS-4-CONFIG_NEWER: Configurations from version 12.0 may not be correctly > understood.F3: 8564+6636705+165012 at 0x1000 > > Error : memory requirements exceed available memory > Memory required : 0x00E392A4 > > Exception: Software forced crash at 0x111E (PC) > > > Thanks in advance !!! > > -- > Regards, > > Stanley. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=32763&t=32748 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MZMaker & IOS c2500-js-l.12.1.10 [7:32748]
Thanks I'm currently studying for my CCNP Routing and then towards my CCIE what version of IOS would you recommend, I was told that I should use the enterprise version. ? cheers ""Paul Lalonde"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Guys, > > This is exactly what is happening. Unfortunately, Will has a 2500 without > the 2MB of soldered on-board DRAM, thus he only has 14MB of RAM for use by > "run from RAM" images. > > Will, you'll need to find a smaller image! Or, find a 2500 mainboard with > the 2MB of soldered on-board memory. :-( > > Paul [PCL] > > > ""Gaz"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Will, > > > > I'm guessing a little at this one. The memory at 0x00E392A4, from a quick > > bash on the calculator is around 14.5 Mb. > > Your router has "14336 Kbytes of main memory" available for the IOS. > > Someone posted a thread a few days ago, which mentioned the two different > > types of 2500. One with 2Mb RAM soldered to main board and one without. > > Looks like yours is one without so is using the first 2mB(ish) for IO. > > So it actually only has 14336 Kbytes available RAM. > > > > As I said, guessing a little, so anyone feel free to jump in and correct. > > > > Regards, > > > > Gaz > > > > ""Will Francis"" wrote in message > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > Hi Guys > > > > > > I'm just in the process of building my home lab and I read quite a few > > > previous posting suggesting that one can use MZMAKER to compress > > enterprise > > > version of IOS 12.1 to run from a 2500 series router with 8mb flash and > > > 16mb Dram. > > > > > > I just tried this and my router just keep on rebooting itself, any ideas > > at > > > all will be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > System Bootstrap, Version 11.0(10c), SOFTWARE > > > Copyright (c) 1986-1996 by cisco Systems > > > 2500 processor with 14336 Kbytes of main memory > > > > > > %SYS-4-CONFIG_NEWER: Configurations from version 12.0 may not be > correctly > > > understood.F3: 8564+6636705+165012 at 0x1000 > > > > > > Error : memory requirements exceed available memory > > > Memory required : 0x00E392A4 > > > > > > Exception: Software forced crash at 0x111E (PC) > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance !!! > > > > > > -- > > > Regards, > > > > > > Stanley. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=32759&t=32748 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MZMaker & IOS c2500-js-l.12.1.10 [7:32748]
Guys, This is exactly what is happening. Unfortunately, Will has a 2500 without the 2MB of soldered on-board DRAM, thus he only has 14MB of RAM for use by "run from RAM" images. Will, you'll need to find a smaller image! Or, find a 2500 mainboard with the 2MB of soldered on-board memory. :-( Paul [PCL] ""Gaz"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Will, > > I'm guessing a little at this one. The memory at 0x00E392A4, from a quick > bash on the calculator is around 14.5 Mb. > Your router has "14336 Kbytes of main memory" available for the IOS. > Someone posted a thread a few days ago, which mentioned the two different > types of 2500. One with 2Mb RAM soldered to main board and one without. > Looks like yours is one without so is using the first 2mB(ish) for IO. > So it actually only has 14336 Kbytes available RAM. > > As I said, guessing a little, so anyone feel free to jump in and correct. > > Regards, > > Gaz > > ""Will Francis"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Hi Guys > > > > I'm just in the process of building my home lab and I read quite a few > > previous posting suggesting that one can use MZMAKER to compress > enterprise > > version of IOS 12.1 to run from a 2500 series router with 8mb flash and > > 16mb Dram. > > > > I just tried this and my router just keep on rebooting itself, any ideas > at > > all will be greatly appreciated. > > > > System Bootstrap, Version 11.0(10c), SOFTWARE > > Copyright (c) 1986-1996 by cisco Systems > > 2500 processor with 14336 Kbytes of main memory > > > > %SYS-4-CONFIG_NEWER: Configurations from version 12.0 may not be correctly > > understood.F3: 8564+6636705+165012 at 0x1000 > > > > Error : memory requirements exceed available memory > > Memory required : 0x00E392A4 > > > > Exception: Software forced crash at 0x111E (PC) > > > > > > Thanks in advance !!! > > > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Stanley. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=32755&t=32748 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MZMaker & IOS c2500-js-l.12.1.10 [7:32748]
Will, I'm guessing a little at this one. The memory at 0x00E392A4, from a quick bash on the calculator is around 14.5 Mb. Your router has "14336 Kbytes of main memory" available for the IOS. Someone posted a thread a few days ago, which mentioned the two different types of 2500. One with 2Mb RAM soldered to main board and one without. Looks like yours is one without so is using the first 2mB(ish) for IO. So it actually only has 14336 Kbytes available RAM. As I said, guessing a little, so anyone feel free to jump in and correct. Regards, Gaz ""Will Francis"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Hi Guys > > I'm just in the process of building my home lab and I read quite a few > previous posting suggesting that one can use MZMAKER to compress enterprise > version of IOS 12.1 to run from a 2500 series router with 8mb flash and > 16mb Dram. > > I just tried this and my router just keep on rebooting itself, any ideas at > all will be greatly appreciated. > > System Bootstrap, Version 11.0(10c), SOFTWARE > Copyright (c) 1986-1996 by cisco Systems > 2500 processor with 14336 Kbytes of main memory > > %SYS-4-CONFIG_NEWER: Configurations from version 12.0 may not be correctly > understood.F3: 8564+6636705+165012 at 0x1000 > > Error : memory requirements exceed available memory > Memory required : 0x00E392A4 > > Exception: Software forced crash at 0x111E (PC) > > > Thanks in advance !!! > > -- > Regards, > > Stanley. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=32752&t=32748 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MZMaker & IOS c2500-js-l.12.1.10 [7:32748]
Hi Guys I'm just in the process of building my home lab and I read quite a few previous posting suggesting that one can use MZMAKER to compress enterprise version of IOS 12.1 to run from a 2500 series router with 8mb flash and 16mb Dram. I just tried this and my router just keep on rebooting itself, any ideas at all will be greatly appreciated. System Bootstrap, Version 11.0(10c), SOFTWARE Copyright (c) 1986-1996 by cisco Systems 2500 processor with 14336 Kbytes of main memory %SYS-4-CONFIG_NEWER: Configurations from version 12.0 may not be correctly understood.F3: 8564+6636705+165012 at 0x1000 Error : memory requirements exceed available memory Memory required : 0x00E392A4 Exception: Software forced crash at 0x111E (PC) Thanks in advance !!! -- Regards, Stanley. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=32748&t=32748 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mzmaker [7:552]
Before you can use the compression program you must figure out if it should work or not. #1- you cannot compress a compressed program (it usually becomes larger). Take a known run from RAM IOS like 11.2, 11.3, & 12.0 (up to release 12.0(9)). Secondly- no matter how small you compress the image, it will require the full RAM size needed- as if it had not been compressed (this never changes). A simple way to know when you are dealing with a run from RAM code, is when shows the IOS image is say 5000 KB & 8 Megs FLASH is recommended, with 10 Megs of RAM (5 fits into 8 & 8 fits with management into 10 Megs). With a run from FLASH, you'll see 16 Megs of FLASH recommended & a RAM requirement of much less. No magic- no smoke :o) Phil - Original Message - From: Jason J. Roysdon To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 10:43 PM Subject: Re: Mzmaker [7:552] > How much DRAM does the router have, and what is that IOS image's > requirement? That's my guess as to the problem. > > -- > Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+ > List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/ > > > > "John Chang" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > I have a 2514 w/ 8Mb flash. When I used mzmaker to compress IOS 12 that > is > > 10MB it worked fine. However, after writing the .mz file to flash and > > starting up the router it keeps looping "Error : memory requirements > exceed > > available memory > > Memory required : 0x00AF99A0 > > > > Exception: Software forced crash at 0x111E (PC)" > > > > and giving this error. Does this not work since on a 2500 series router > > the IOS runs in the flash and not ram? Thanks. > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=584&t=552 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mzmaker [7:552]
How much DRAM does the router have, and what is that IOS image's requirement? That's my guess as to the problem. -- Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+ List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/ "John Chang" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I have a 2514 w/ 8Mb flash. When I used mzmaker to compress IOS 12 that is > 10MB it worked fine. However, after writing the .mz file to flash and > starting up the router it keeps looping "Error : memory requirements exceed > available memory > Memory required : 0x00AF99A0 > > Exception: Software forced crash at 0x111E (PC)" > > and giving this error. Does this not work since on a 2500 series router > the IOS runs in the flash and not ram? Thanks. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=552&t=552 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mzmaker [7:46]
Thanks Phil, Had no idea any images could run from RAM on 2500's. I had always thought it was the router which controlled whether images ran from RAM/Flash rather than the IOS having any effect. That's where the hole was for me in the understanding. I'll have a play when I get back home. Cheers again, Gaz ""Circusnuts"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > MZMaker is simply a compression program for images that run from RAM. Case > in point- 12.0(8) Enterprise runs from RAM in 2500 series routers. Full > version is 9,980 KB in size. This makes your hardware requirements 16 > FLASH/ 16 Megs RAM. If you compress the image, it brings the image down to > 4,671 KB. Your RAM requirements have not changed because the image > decompresses when writing into RAM, but you're now free to use an 8 Meg > FLASH sticks. For my lab requirements, it's been purely economic. Single 8 > Meg sticks are generally around $80 to $90 on Ebay. Lastly- when > compressed, 11.2(18) Enterprise runs clean on 4 Megs (great shortcut for the > 3202 owners). > > All the best !!! > Phil > > > - Original Message - > From: "Gareth Hinton" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 5:30 PM > Subject: Re: Mzmaker [7:46] > > > > Thanks for the reply Brian. > > Is it just the fact that the image is compressed which makes the router > run > > from RAM or is there some other config change? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Gareth > > > > > > ""Brian Dennis"" wrote in message > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > Gareth, > > > I use it to enable my 2500s to run the image from RAM as opposed to > flash. > > > The largest image I was able to get working with 16 megs of RAM in the > > > router was about a 13 meg IOS image before compression. Anything larger > > than > > > about 13 megs won't boot. I haven't tried it but theoretically you could > > run > > > this image without any flash at all if you booted the image from a TFTP > > > server. One of the drawbacks is that the router isn't left with a lot of > > > memory to use for it's processes (see 'sho mem' below) so I wouldn't > > > recommend using this in a production environment but in a lab > environment > > it > > > isn't usually an issue. > > > > > > Brian Dennis > > > CCIE #2210 (R&S)(ISP/Dial) > > > CCSI #98640 > > > > > > > > > [root@FW1 bdennis]# ls -l c2500* > > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 bdennis bdennis 5861550 Apr 2 18:10 > > > c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.Z > > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 bdennis bdennis 12699926 Apr 2 14:06 > > > c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.bin > > > [root@FW1 bdennis]# > > > > > > > > > R2#sho ver > > > Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software > > > IOS (tm) 2500 Software (C2500-JOS56I-L), Version 12.0(4)T, RELEASE > > SOFTWARE > > > (fc1) > > > Copyright (c) 1986-1999 by cisco Systems, Inc. > > > Compiled Wed 28-Apr-99 21:02 by kpma > > > Image text-base: 0x144C, data-base: 0x00B63958 > > > > > > ROM: System Bootstrap, Version 11.0(10c)XB1, PLATFORM SPECIFIC RELEASE > > > SOFTWARE (fc1) > > > BOOTFLASH: 3000 Bootstrap Software (IGS-BOOT-R), Version 11.0(10c)XB1, > > > PLATFORM SPECIFIC RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1) > > > > > > R2 uptime is 21 hours, 46 minutes > > > System restarted by reload > > > System image file is "flash:c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.Z" > > > > > > cisco 2500 (68030) processor (revision L) with 14336K/2048K bytes of > > memory. > > > Processor board ID 01486505, with hardware revision > > > Bridging software. > > > X.25 software, Version 3.0.0. > > > SuperLAT software copyright 1990 by Meridian Technology Corp). > > > TN3270 Emulation software. > > > 1 Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s) > > > 2 Serial network interface(s) > > > 32K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory. > > > 8192K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write) > > > > > > Configuration register is 0x2102 > > > > > > R2#sho flash > > > > > > System flash directory: > > > File Length Name/status > > > 1 5861676 c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.Z > > > [5861740 bytes used, 2526868 available, 8388608 total] > > > 8192K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write) > > >
Re: Mzmaker [7:46]
> MZMaker is simply a compression program for images that run from RAM. Case in point- 12.0(8) Enterprise runs from RAM in 2500 series routers. Full version is 9,980 KB in size. This makes your hardware requirements 16 FLASH/ 16 Megs RAM. If you compress the image, it brings the image down to 4,671 KB. Your RAM requirements have not changed because the image decompresses when writing into RAM, but you're now free to use an 8 Meg FLASH sticks. For my lab requirements, it's been purely economic. Single 8 Meg sticks are generally around $80 to $90 on Ebay. Lastly- when compressed, 11.2(18) Enterprise runs clean on 4 Megs (great shortcut for the 3202 owners). All the best !!! Phil - Original Message - From: "Gareth Hinton" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 5:30 PM Subject: Re: Mzmaker [7:46] > Thanks for the reply Brian. > Is it just the fact that the image is compressed which makes the router run > from RAM or is there some other config change? > > Cheers, > > Gareth > > > ""Brian Dennis"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Gareth, > > I use it to enable my 2500s to run the image from RAM as opposed to flash. > > The largest image I was able to get working with 16 megs of RAM in the > > router was about a 13 meg IOS image before compression. Anything larger > than > > about 13 megs won't boot. I haven't tried it but theoretically you could > run > > this image without any flash at all if you booted the image from a TFTP > > server. One of the drawbacks is that the router isn't left with a lot of > > memory to use for it's processes (see 'sho mem' below) so I wouldn't > > recommend using this in a production environment but in a lab environment > it > > isn't usually an issue. > > > > Brian Dennis > > CCIE #2210 (R&S)(ISP/Dial) > > CCSI #98640 > > > > > > [root@FW1 bdennis]# ls -l c2500* > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 bdennis bdennis 5861550 Apr 2 18:10 > > c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.Z > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 bdennis bdennis 12699926 Apr 2 14:06 > > c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.bin > > [root@FW1 bdennis]# > > > > > > R2#sho ver > > Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software > > IOS (tm) 2500 Software (C2500-JOS56I-L), Version 12.0(4)T, RELEASE > SOFTWARE > > (fc1) > > Copyright (c) 1986-1999 by cisco Systems, Inc. > > Compiled Wed 28-Apr-99 21:02 by kpma > > Image text-base: 0x144C, data-base: 0x00B63958 > > > > ROM: System Bootstrap, Version 11.0(10c)XB1, PLATFORM SPECIFIC RELEASE > > SOFTWARE (fc1) > > BOOTFLASH: 3000 Bootstrap Software (IGS-BOOT-R), Version 11.0(10c)XB1, > > PLATFORM SPECIFIC RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1) > > > > R2 uptime is 21 hours, 46 minutes > > System restarted by reload > > System image file is "flash:c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.Z" > > > > cisco 2500 (68030) processor (revision L) with 14336K/2048K bytes of > memory. > > Processor board ID 01486505, with hardware revision > > Bridging software. > > X.25 software, Version 3.0.0. > > SuperLAT software copyright 1990 by Meridian Technology Corp). > > TN3270 Emulation software. > > 1 Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s) > > 2 Serial network interface(s) > > 32K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory. > > 8192K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write) > > > > Configuration register is 0x2102 > > > > R2#sho flash > > > > System flash directory: > > File Length Name/status > > 1 5861676 c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.Z > > [5861740 bytes used, 2526868 available, 8388608 total] > > 8192K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write) > > > > R2#sho mem > >Head Total(b)Used(b)Free(b) Lowest(b) Largest(b) > > ProcessorCE69FC11484201148420 0 0 0 > > I/OE020971521345176 751976 682724 722216 > > > > > > > > R2# > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > > Gareth Hinton > > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 4:34 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Mzmaker [7:46] > > > > > > Can someone explain how this works then? > > > > Where does the image decompress to? The way I understood it, a compressed > > image which is stored in flash, decompresses to RAM, then runs from there. > > Could 2500's ever Run from RAM? Is this image dependant, I thought a > router > > was either 'run fro
Re: Mzmaker [7:46]
Thanks for the reply Brian. Is it just the fact that the image is compressed which makes the router run from RAM or is there some other config change? Cheers, Gareth ""Brian Dennis"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Gareth, > I use it to enable my 2500s to run the image from RAM as opposed to flash. > The largest image I was able to get working with 16 megs of RAM in the > router was about a 13 meg IOS image before compression. Anything larger than > about 13 megs won't boot. I haven't tried it but theoretically you could run > this image without any flash at all if you booted the image from a TFTP > server. One of the drawbacks is that the router isn't left with a lot of > memory to use for it's processes (see 'sho mem' below) so I wouldn't > recommend using this in a production environment but in a lab environment it > isn't usually an issue. > > Brian Dennis > CCIE #2210 (R&S)(ISP/Dial) > CCSI #98640 > > > [root@FW1 bdennis]# ls -l c2500* > -rw-rw-r-- 1 bdennis bdennis 5861550 Apr 2 18:10 > c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.Z > -rw-rw-r-- 1 bdennis bdennis 12699926 Apr 2 14:06 > c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.bin > [root@FW1 bdennis]# > > > R2#sho ver > Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software > IOS (tm) 2500 Software (C2500-JOS56I-L), Version 12.0(4)T, RELEASE SOFTWARE > (fc1) > Copyright (c) 1986-1999 by cisco Systems, Inc. > Compiled Wed 28-Apr-99 21:02 by kpma > Image text-base: 0x144C, data-base: 0x00B63958 > > ROM: System Bootstrap, Version 11.0(10c)XB1, PLATFORM SPECIFIC RELEASE > SOFTWARE (fc1) > BOOTFLASH: 3000 Bootstrap Software (IGS-BOOT-R), Version 11.0(10c)XB1, > PLATFORM SPECIFIC RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1) > > R2 uptime is 21 hours, 46 minutes > System restarted by reload > System image file is "flash:c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.Z" > > cisco 2500 (68030) processor (revision L) with 14336K/2048K bytes of memory. > Processor board ID 01486505, with hardware revision > Bridging software. > X.25 software, Version 3.0.0. > SuperLAT software copyright 1990 by Meridian Technology Corp). > TN3270 Emulation software. > 1 Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s) > 2 Serial network interface(s) > 32K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory. > 8192K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write) > > Configuration register is 0x2102 > > R2#sho flash > > System flash directory: > File Length Name/status > 1 5861676 c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.Z > [5861740 bytes used, 2526868 available, 8388608 total] > 8192K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write) > > R2#sho mem >Head Total(b)Used(b)Free(b) Lowest(b) Largest(b) > ProcessorCE69FC11484201148420 0 0 0 > I/OE020971521345176 751976 682724 722216 > > > > R2# > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Gareth Hinton > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 4:34 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Mzmaker [7:46] > > > Can someone explain how this works then? > > Where does the image decompress to? The way I understood it, a compressed > image which is stored in flash, decompresses to RAM, then runs from there. > Could 2500's ever Run from RAM? Is this image dependant, I thought a router > was either 'run from flash' or 'run from ram'. Can the IOS change that? > I've used mz images plenty on other routers, but can't find a 2500 image > that is not .bin. > > Any replies welcome - I'm off to look into it myself. > > Cheers, > > Gareth > > > ""Circusnuts"" wrote in message > 0f6c01c0c105$035e8fe0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:0f6c01c0c105$035e8fe0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Gareth- your half right. MZMaker is for the RUN from RAM routers, which > is a > > good portion of the images Cisco supports. I have used MZMaker > exclusively in > > the 2500's for the past 2 years (HOMELAB ONLY). It will not work on the > new > > 12.1 (2500 Series), run from FLASH images- as you suggest. I'm not sure > if > > you have upgraded a lot of routers, via the CCO... but a majority of the > > images have the MZ designation in the IOS name. Cisco uses the very same > > program to compress their images... > > > > Phil > > > > "Gareth Hinton" wrote in message > > 9asrpa$is4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:9asrpa$is4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > Not convinced! > > > I must admit I've never used Mzmaker, but surely it's only u
RE: Mzmaker [7:46]
Gareth, I use it to enable my 2500s to run the image from RAM as opposed to flash. The largest image I was able to get working with 16 megs of RAM in the router was about a 13 meg IOS image before compression. Anything larger than about 13 megs won't boot. I haven't tried it but theoretically you could run this image without any flash at all if you booted the image from a TFTP server. One of the drawbacks is that the router isn't left with a lot of memory to use for it's processes (see 'sho mem' below) so I wouldn't recommend using this in a production environment but in a lab environment it isn't usually an issue. Brian Dennis CCIE #2210 (R&S)(ISP/Dial) CCSI #98640 [root@FW1 bdennis]# ls -l c2500* -rw-rw-r-- 1 bdennis bdennis 5861550 Apr 2 18:10 c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 bdennis bdennis 12699926 Apr 2 14:06 c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.bin [root@FW1 bdennis]# R2#sho ver Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software IOS (tm) 2500 Software (C2500-JOS56I-L), Version 12.0(4)T, RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1) Copyright (c) 1986-1999 by cisco Systems, Inc. Compiled Wed 28-Apr-99 21:02 by kpma Image text-base: 0x144C, data-base: 0x00B63958 ROM: System Bootstrap, Version 11.0(10c)XB1, PLATFORM SPECIFIC RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1) BOOTFLASH: 3000 Bootstrap Software (IGS-BOOT-R), Version 11.0(10c)XB1, PLATFORM SPECIFIC RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1) R2 uptime is 21 hours, 46 minutes System restarted by reload System image file is "flash:c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.Z" cisco 2500 (68030) processor (revision L) with 14336K/2048K bytes of memory. Processor board ID 01486505, with hardware revision Bridging software. X.25 software, Version 3.0.0. SuperLAT software copyright 1990 by Meridian Technology Corp). TN3270 Emulation software. 1 Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s) 2 Serial network interface(s) 32K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory. 8192K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write) Configuration register is 0x2102 R2#sho flash System flash directory: File Length Name/status 1 5861676 c2500-jos56i-l.120-4.T.Z [5861740 bytes used, 2526868 available, 8388608 total] 8192K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write) R2#sho mem Head Total(b)Used(b)Free(b) Lowest(b) Largest(b) ProcessorCE69FC11484201148420 0 0 0 I/OE020971521345176 751976 682724 722216 R2# -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Gareth Hinton Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 4:34 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Mzmaker [7:46] Can someone explain how this works then? Where does the image decompress to? The way I understood it, a compressed image which is stored in flash, decompresses to RAM, then runs from there. Could 2500's ever Run from RAM? Is this image dependant, I thought a router was either 'run from flash' or 'run from ram'. Can the IOS change that? I've used mz images plenty on other routers, but can't find a 2500 image that is not .bin. Any replies welcome - I'm off to look into it myself. Cheers, Gareth ""Circusnuts"" wrote in message 0f6c01c0c105$035e8fe0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:0f6c01c0c105$035e8fe0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Gareth- your half right. MZMaker is for the RUN from RAM routers, which is a > good portion of the images Cisco supports. I have used MZMaker exclusively in > the 2500's for the past 2 years (HOMELAB ONLY). It will not work on the new > 12.1 (2500 Series), run from FLASH images- as you suggest. I'm not sure if > you have upgraded a lot of routers, via the CCO... but a majority of the > images have the MZ designation in the IOS name. Cisco uses the very same > program to compress their images... > > Phil > > "Gareth Hinton" wrote in message > 9asrpa$is4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:9asrpa$is4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Not convinced! > > I must admit I've never used Mzmaker, but surely it's only useful for 'Run > > from RAM' routers. > > Can it be used at all on a 2500? > > > > Gareth > > > > ""Bob Timmons"" wrote in message > > 9asg22$32a$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:9asg22$32a$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > How much RAM do you have on this router? If the uncompressed IOS is > > greater > > > than 8MB, you need 16MB of RAM. Remember, when you compress an IOS image > > it > > > will uncompress into RAM when booting. If you have 16MB of RAM, maybe > try > > > re-compressing the original IOS image. > > > > > > > I have a 2514 w/ 8Mb flash. When I used mzmaker to compress IOS 12 > that > > > is > > > > 10MB it worked fine. However, after writing
Re: Mzmaker [7:46]
Can someone explain how this works then? Where does the image decompress to? The way I understood it, a compressed image which is stored in flash, decompresses to RAM, then runs from there. Could 2500's ever Run from RAM? Is this image dependant, I thought a router was either 'run from flash' or 'run from ram'. Can the IOS change that? I've used mz images plenty on other routers, but can't find a 2500 image that is not .bin. Any replies welcome - I'm off to look into it myself. Cheers, Gareth ""Circusnuts"" wrote in message 0f6c01c0c105$035e8fe0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:0f6c01c0c105$035e8fe0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Gareth- your half right. MZMaker is for the RUN from RAM routers, which is a > good portion of the images Cisco supports. I have used MZMaker exclusively in > the 2500's for the past 2 years (HOMELAB ONLY). It will not work on the new > 12.1 (2500 Series), run from FLASH images- as you suggest. I'm not sure if > you have upgraded a lot of routers, via the CCO... but a majority of the > images have the MZ designation in the IOS name. Cisco uses the very same > program to compress their images... > > Phil > > "Gareth Hinton" wrote in message > 9asrpa$is4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:9asrpa$is4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Not convinced! > > I must admit I've never used Mzmaker, but surely it's only useful for 'Run > > from RAM' routers. > > Can it be used at all on a 2500? > > > > Gareth > > > > ""Bob Timmons"" wrote in message > > 9asg22$32a$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:9asg22$32a$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > How much RAM do you have on this router? If the uncompressed IOS is > > greater > > > than 8MB, you need 16MB of RAM. Remember, when you compress an IOS image > > it > > > will uncompress into RAM when booting. If you have 16MB of RAM, maybe > try > > > re-compressing the original IOS image. > > > > > > > I have a 2514 w/ 8Mb flash. When I used mzmaker to compress IOS 12 > that > > > is > > > > 10MB it worked fine. However, after writing the .mz file to flash and > > > > starting up the router it keeps looping "Error : memory requirements > > > exceed > > > > available memory > > > > Memory required : 0x00AF99A0 > > > > > > > > Exception: Software forced crash at 0x111E (PC)" > > > > > > > > and giving this error. Does this not work since on a 2500 series > router > > > > the IOS runs in the flash and not ram? Thanks. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=46&t=46 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mzmaker
Gareth- your half right. MZMaker is for the RUN from RAM routers, which is a good portion of the images Cisco supports. I have used MZMaker exclusively in the 2500's for the past 2 years (HOMELAB ONLY). It will not work on the new 12.1 (2500 Series), run from FLASH images- as you suggest. I'm not sure if you have upgraded a lot of routers, via the CCO... but a majority of the images have the MZ designation in the IOS name. Cisco uses the very same program to compress their images... Phil "Gareth Hinton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 9asrpa$is4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:9asrpa$is4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Not convinced! > I must admit I've never used Mzmaker, but surely it's only useful for 'Run > from RAM' routers. > Can it be used at all on a 2500? > > Gareth > > ""Bob Timmons"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > 9asg22$32a$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:9asg22$32a$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > How much RAM do you have on this router? If the uncompressed IOS is > greater > > than 8MB, you need 16MB of RAM. Remember, when you compress an IOS image > it > > will uncompress into RAM when booting. If you have 16MB of RAM, maybe try > > re-compressing the original IOS image. > > > > > I have a 2514 w/ 8Mb flash. When I used mzmaker to compress IOS 12 that > > is > > > 10MB it worked fine. However, after writing the .mz file to flash and > > > starting up the router it keeps looping "Error : memory requirements > > exceed > > > available memory > > > Memory required : 0x00AF99A0 > > > > > > Exception: Software forced crash at 0x111E (PC)" > > > > > > and giving this error. Does this not work since on a 2500 series router > > > the IOS runs in the flash and not ram? Thanks. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mzmaker
Not convinced! I must admit I've never used Mzmaker, but surely it's only useful for 'Run from RAM' routers. Can it be used at all on a 2500? Gareth ""Bob Timmons"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 9asg22$32a$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:9asg22$32a$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > How much RAM do you have on this router? If the uncompressed IOS is greater > than 8MB, you need 16MB of RAM. Remember, when you compress an IOS image it > will uncompress into RAM when booting. If you have 16MB of RAM, maybe try > re-compressing the original IOS image. > > > I have a 2514 w/ 8Mb flash. When I used mzmaker to compress IOS 12 that > is > > 10MB it worked fine. However, after writing the .mz file to flash and > > starting up the router it keeps looping "Error : memory requirements > exceed > > available memory > > Memory required : 0x00AF99A0 > > > > Exception: Software forced crash at 0x111E (PC)" > > > > and giving this error. Does this not work since on a 2500 series router > > the IOS runs in the flash and not ram? Thanks. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mzmaker
How much RAM do you have on this router? If the uncompressed IOS is greater than 8MB, you need 16MB of RAM. Remember, when you compress an IOS image it will uncompress into RAM when booting. If you have 16MB of RAM, maybe try re-compressing the original IOS image. > I have a 2514 w/ 8Mb flash. When I used mzmaker to compress IOS 12 that is > 10MB it worked fine. However, after writing the .mz file to flash and > starting up the router it keeps looping "Error : memory requirements exceed > available memory > Memory required : 0x00AF99A0 > > Exception: Software forced crash at 0x111E (PC)" > > and giving this error. Does this not work since on a 2500 series router > the IOS runs in the flash and not ram? Thanks. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mzmaker
I have a 2514 w/ 8Mb flash. When I used mzmaker to compress IOS 12 that is 10MB it worked fine. However, after writing the .mz file to flash and starting up the router it keeps looping "Error : memory requirements exceed available memory Memory required : 0x00AF99A0 Exception: Software forced crash at 0x111E (PC)" and giving this error. Does this not work since on a 2500 series router the IOS runs in the flash and not ram? Thanks. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MZMaker compression program.
http://bobtimmons.home.mindspring.com/bin/mzmaker.exe > -Original Message- > From: Alex Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:46 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: MZMaker compression program. > > > Group, > > Can someone point me a URL to download this utility software. Thanks. > > > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct > and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MZMaker compression program.
Group, Can someone point me a URL to download this utility software. Thanks. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MZMaker utility (other way around though)
Hi Chris, Just run PKUNZIP or any UNZIP engine against the image. It'll discard the preamble but should generate the original IOS image as a result. Paul Chris McCoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Does anyone know if it's possible to decompress an > mz IOS image? How is it accomplished? IIRC, it's > GNUzipped with an executable tag at the lead in of the > file. > > Thanks for the help, > Chris M. > > --- Paul Lalonde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Sam, > > > > Images for the 800, 1000, 1600, 2600, 3600 ... are > > already compressed to run > > from DRAM. You can't use the MZMAKER utility on > > these images. > > > > MZMAKER was written specifically for the many 3000- > > and 2500-series systems > > in use by our groupstudy peers. The 3000- and > > 2500-series routers don't have > > "compressed from the factory" images like these > > newer routers do. > > > > Regards, > > Paul > > [PCL] > > > > > > > > "Sam" wrote in message ... > > >Hello friends > > >Could anyone who has used the MZMaker utility to > > compress IOS images = > > >tell me if I can use it to compress images for a > > 1600 router. > > >I have done it on a 2500 and it works great. > > >My 1600 has 4MB Ram and 6MB Flash and am not able > > to load large images. = > > >This is for a home lab so I am not too concerned > > about slow booting or = > > >response. > > > > > > > > >Thanks > > > > > >Sam > > > > > >_ > > >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > _ > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MZMaker utility (other way around though)
Does anyone know if it's possible to decompress an mz IOS image? How is it accomplished? IIRC, it's GNUzipped with an executable tag at the lead in of the file. Thanks for the help, Chris M. --- Paul Lalonde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Sam, > > Images for the 800, 1000, 1600, 2600, 3600 ... are > already compressed to run > from DRAM. You can't use the MZMAKER utility on > these images. > > MZMAKER was written specifically for the many 3000- > and 2500-series systems > in use by our groupstudy peers. The 3000- and > 2500-series routers don't have > "compressed from the factory" images like these > newer routers do. > > Regards, > Paul > [PCL] > > > > "Sam" wrote in message ... > >Hello friends > >Could anyone who has used the MZMaker utility to > compress IOS images = > >tell me if I can use it to compress images for a > 1600 router. > >I have done it on a 2500 and it works great. > >My 1600 has 4MB Ram and 6MB Flash and am not able > to load large images. = > >This is for a home lab so I am not too concerned > about slow booting or = > >response. > > > > > >Thanks > > > >Sam > > > >_ > >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MZMaker utility
Hi Sam, Images for the 800, 1000, 1600, 2600, 3600 ... are already compressed to run from DRAM. You can't use the MZMAKER utility on these images. MZMAKER was written specifically for the many 3000- and 2500-series systems in use by our groupstudy peers. The 3000- and 2500-series routers don't have "compressed from the factory" images like these newer routers do. Regards, Paul [PCL] "Sam" wrote in message ... >Hello friends >Could anyone who has used the MZMaker utility to compress IOS images = >tell me if I can use it to compress images for a 1600 router. >I have done it on a 2500 and it works great. >My 1600 has 4MB Ram and 6MB Flash and am not able to load large images. = >This is for a home lab so I am not too concerned about slow booting or = >response. > > >Thanks > >Sam > >_ >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MZMaker utility
Hello friends Could anyone who has used the MZMaker utility to compress IOS images = tell me if I can use it to compress images for a 1600 router. I have done it on a 2500 and it works great. My 1600 has 4MB Ram and 6MB Flash and am not able to load large images. = This is for a home lab so I am not too concerned about slow booting or = response. Thanks Sam _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: How to use mzmaker
Yes. When the router reboots, it will load and uncompress the image. I
don't know if the filename matters, but I used .MZ
The first time I tried it, it failed for some reason. It's worked each time
I tried since. The file might have been corrupted the first time, or the
compression failed or something. Suffice to say, try it until it works.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Sharad
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 3:25 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: How to use mzmaker
Hi Folks
I need some help from anyone who has used the MZMaker utility.
I downloaded the MZMaker utility and used it to compress the IOS
eg
"mzmaker c2500-jos56i-l.120-9.bin c2500-jos56i-l.120-9.mz"
After it has compressed the image, do I copy it to my router from the TFTP
server using the
"copy tftp flash" command...
Do I have to rename the ".mz" file to ".bin" before I do that.
Please let me know the steps I should take to carry out this procedure
Thanks
SV
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How to use mzmaker
Hi Folks I need some help from anyone who has used the MZMaker utility. I downloaded the MZMaker utility and used it to compress the IOS eg "mzmaker c2500-jos56i-l.120-9.bin c2500-jos56i-l.120-9.mz" After it has compressed the image, do I copy it to my router from the TFTP server using the "copy tftp flash" command... Do I have to rename the ".mz" file to ".bin" before I do that. Please let me know the steps I should take to carry out this procedure Thanks SV ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
