RE: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster - Should be our poster child
Jeongwoo, All of the tea in China won't help someone who is only paper certified. I feel that you should do what all people must do at times when an intense decision looms on the horizon; re-evaluate your situation. Here's where I am going with that: Ok, fine you have your CCNP, how much experience do you have? Before you make the mistake of over marketing yourself, I would encourage you to evaluate yourself honestly and perhaps you could get Chuck, Howard or Priscilla to act as sounding boards to you. You're in a difficult position because of the time and effort that you invested in studying for your exams, and I think we all appreciate that. However, you will be doing yourself a sincere disservice if simply ignore the good counsel that you are privvy to (as are all of us), based off of our memberships and contributions to this list. Lets add further complications to the mix. Let's say you go and pass the written and lab and your experience is confined solely to sterile lab environments, how well do you believe you will be recepted by employers? I would imagine that regardless of the fact that you had a number (hypothetically), you might encounter similar disappointment in that most employers value experience+certification. Its a simple equation: experience+certification=success. If anyone sincerely disagrees with me on this one, then I welcome the flames...bring'em on, however I maintain that the marriage of certification+experience is what secures success and that when people get paper crazy it only serves to degrade the value of the certification. My 2cents, you may begin your flamesin five,four,three,two,one... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Donald B Johnson Jr Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 7:28 PM To: jeongwoo park; Groupstudy Subject: Re: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster - Should be our poster child I started in this industry in 95 after a career change, I was a Chef for 12 years, and taught music for two years before that. Third career working with computers. I want to be a lawyer next, fourth career. Whatever!! A friend of mine had a family member who had a small consulting business, and I started working with them when they needed a grunt. It was during the Win95 buzz when people would pay for you to upgrade their OS. They used to get 179$ to upgrade a computer with a licensed copy of Win95. Unbelievable!!! The consultant company also did a lot of rewiring too, used to be a lot of Cat3 in those walls. So we would install Cat5. I swallowed a lot of dust bunnies in the day. Got paid 7$ an hour but it was a start, and I would do it all again because like you, I (and many here) love it. Now I have a great position and great pay, the best part is, it's like I don't have a job, but am getting paid for my hobby. So good luck Jeongwoo you will find something, I know how you feel I was there. With the attitude you expressed in your last post, you should be the poster child for all that is good about this group, and certification, and this profession. Duck - Original Message - From: jeongwoo park [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Groupstudy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:55 PM Subject: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster Hi group members!! I am the original poster of this thread. First of all, I appreciate your encouragements, concerns and even criticizing point. I received more replies than I expected. There were some people who made a point on removing my ccnp cert from my resume. It was not only thoughtful suggestion, but also scary suggestion, because I felt that removing it from my resume was like 7 months of ccnp prep going down the drain all of a sudden. However, I made up my mind not remove it. My intension of listing ccnp on my resume was to show how much interest I have on networking. I believe that there is clear difference between ccna without experience and ccnp without experience. If I were employer, I would hire ccnp without experience because there is obviously difference between these two guys in terms of the amount of technical knowledge and potential performance that he or she might make. As some members mentioned, lots of people consider their careers from IT industry because of money. I agree with them not only I am partly one of them, but also money can be one of strong motivation in advancing their living condition. But money doesn't give me enough motivation as my interest in networking does. I didn't even consider CCNP. I was going to start to look for a job after I got MCSE and CCNA certifications. But I couldn't stop my interest in knowing more on network knowledge. There might be some people who would say, " none of these guys would be hired." Well, the biggest irony that I have is that who is going to start his or her career in IT industry if everyone is looking for only experienced engineer. That is why I
Re: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster - Should be our poster child
I agree, and according to the Cisco Web site: experience=training=self-study= 33% certification = (experience + training + self-study). if experience = 0 certification = training + self-study ""William E. Gragido"" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 000801c07caf$d831fe90$1f0110ac@gragid">news:000801c07caf$d831fe90$1f0110ac@gragid... Jeongwoo, All of the tea in China won't help someone who is only paper certified. I feel that you should do what all people must do at times when an intense decision looms on the horizon; re-evaluate your situation. Here's where I am going with that: Ok, fine you have your CCNP, how much experience do you have? Before you make the mistake of over marketing yourself, I would encourage you to evaluate yourself honestly and perhaps you could get Chuck, Howard or Priscilla to act as sounding boards to you. You're in a difficult position because of the time and effort that you invested in studying for your exams, and I think we all appreciate that. However, you will be doing yourself a sincere disservice if simply ignore the good counsel that you are privvy to (as are all of us), based off of our memberships and contributions to this list. Lets add further complications to the mix. Let's say you go and pass the written and lab and your experience is confined solely to sterile lab environments, how well do you believe you will be recepted by employers? I would imagine that regardless of the fact that you had a number (hypothetically), you might encounter similar disappointment in that most employers value experience+certification. Its a simple equation: experience+certification=success. If anyone sincerely disagrees with me on this one, then I welcome the flames...bring'em on, however I maintain that the marriage of certification+experience is what secures success and that when people get paper crazy it only serves to degrade the value of the certification. My 2cents, you may begin your flamesin five,four,three,two,one... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Donald B Johnson Jr Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 7:28 PM To: jeongwoo park; Groupstudy Subject: Re: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster - Should be our poster child I started in this industry in 95 after a career change, I was a Chef for 12 years, and taught music for two years before that. Third career working with computers. I want to be a lawyer next, fourth career. Whatever!! A friend of mine had a family member who had a small consulting business, and I started working with them when they needed a grunt. It was during the Win95 buzz when people would pay for you to upgrade their OS. They used to get 179$ to upgrade a computer with a licensed copy of Win95. Unbelievable!!! The consultant company also did a lot of rewiring too, used to be a lot of Cat3 in those walls. So we would install Cat5. I swallowed a lot of dust bunnies in the day. Got paid 7$ an hour but it was a start, and I would do it all again because like you, I (and many here) love it. Now I have a great position and great pay, the best part is, it's like I don't have a job, but am getting paid for my hobby. So good luck Jeongwoo you will find something, I know how you feel I was there. With the attitude you expressed in your last post, you should be the poster child for all that is good about this group, and certification, and this profession. Duck - Original Message - From: jeongwoo park [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Groupstudy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:55 PM Subject: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster Hi group members!! I am the original poster of this thread. First of all, I appreciate your encouragements, concerns and even criticizing point. I received more replies than I expected. There were some people who made a point on removing my ccnp cert from my resume. It was not only thoughtful suggestion, but also scary suggestion, because I felt that removing it from my resume was like 7 months of ccnp prep going down the drain all of a sudden. However, I made up my mind not remove it. My intension of listing ccnp on my resume was to show how much interest I have on networking. I believe that there is clear difference between ccna without experience and ccnp without experience. If I were employer, I would hire ccnp without experience because there is obviously difference between these two guys in terms of the amount of technical knowledge and potential performance that he or she might make. As some members mentioned, lots of people consider their careers from IT industry because of money. I agree with them not only I am partly one of them, but also money can be one of strong motivation in advancing their living condition. But money doesn't give me enough motivation as my interest in networking does. I
Re: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster - Should be our poster child
I started in this industry in 95 after a career change, I was a Chef for 12 years, and taught music for two years before that. Third career working with computers. I want to be a lawyer next, fourth career. Whatever!! A friend of mine had a family member who had a small consulting business, and I started working with them when they needed a grunt. It was during the Win95 buzz when people would pay for you to upgrade their OS. They used to get 179$ to upgrade a computer with a licensed copy of Win95. Unbelievable!!! The consultant company also did a lot of rewiring too, used to be a lot of Cat3 in those walls. So we would install Cat5. I swallowed a lot of dust bunnies in the day. Got paid 7$ an hour but it was a start, and I would do it all again because like you, I (and many here) love it. Now I have a great position and great pay, the best part is, it's like I don't have a job, but am getting paid for my hobby. So good luck Jeongwoo you will find something, I know how you feel I was there. With the attitude you expressed in your last post, you should be the poster child for all that is good about this group, and certification, and this profession. Duck - Original Message - From: jeongwoo park [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Groupstudy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:55 PM Subject: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster Hi group members!! I am the original poster of this thread. First of all, I appreciate your encouragements, concerns and even criticizing point. I received more replies than I expected. There were some people who made a point on removing my ccnp cert from my resume. It was not only thoughtful suggestion, but also scary suggestion, because I felt that removing it from my resume was like 7 months of ccnp prep going down the drain all of a sudden. However, I made up my mind not remove it. My intension of listing ccnp on my resume was to show how much interest I have on networking. I believe that there is clear difference between ccna without experience and ccnp without experience. If I were employer, I would hire ccnp without experience because there is obviously difference between these two guys in terms of the amount of technical knowledge and potential performance that he or she might make. As some members mentioned, lots of people consider their careers from IT industry because of money. I agree with them not only I am partly one of them, but also money can be one of strong motivation in advancing their living condition. But money doesn't give me enough motivation as my interest in networking does. I didn't even consider CCNP. I was going to start to look for a job after I got MCSE and CCNA certifications. But I couldn't stop my interest in knowing more on network knowledge. There might be some people who would say, " none of these guys would be hired." Well, the biggest irony that I have is that who is going to start his or her career in IT industry if everyone is looking for only experienced engineer. That is why I am looking for entry level of job. I wouldn't be able to perform in the beginning as much as years of experienced CCNP would do. But I am sure that I could learn things faster than most of entry-level job applicants. If nobody offers me a job, I would go for CCIE without any corporation experience. I would buy network devices, and take ccie lab classes. I wonder if there is anyone who made ccie without any corporation experience. I wish there were. If not, I will be the first one who becomes ccie without experience. I am not talking about home-network or training school network experience. I am talking about the experience that can be obtained as a network engineer. I know it would be harder to become ccie without real world experience, but I believe that lots of members who showed their concern would be with me. When I become CCIE, I will put nothing but CCIE, and see if anyone gives me job offer. I wonder if people who emphasizes on only experience still wouldn't hire me. For the people who are already out there and working for company without any certification, I respect them because they might have had harder time on getting a job than I do. Since I posted my message, I had some job interviews. Well, I will see how it will go. Once again, Thanks you for encouragement and advices. I will definitely let you know if I got hired. jeongwoo __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
