RE: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345]
It seems very promising. I look forward to taking the lab. Raul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 9:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345] Hi All Well Cisco has announced their plans... http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/whatsnew.html -- John Hardman CCNP MCSE Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=12349&t=12345 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345]
You know what this may mean .This may mean that the days of long 7 month wait times are over and we might be able to get lab dates sooner. Comments are invited on this prespective. "Raul F. Fernandez" wrote: > It seems very promising. I look forward to taking the lab. > > Raul > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 9:11 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345] > > Hi All > > Well Cisco has announced their plans... > > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/whatsnew.html > > -- > John Hardman CCNP MCSE Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=12363&t=12345 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345]
I think this also means that you are going to see the prestige of the certification diminish. Part of the prestige is that only a few people in the world have the certification. If say 80- 85% of people taking the exam pass then increasing the number of people taking the exam will increase the amount of people that pass (more people will be certified at a faster rate). Part of the reason CCIE are paid so much is that there are so few out there. From a supply and demand perspective does this not decrease the monetary advantage of attaining the certification for the individual. For Cisco this is great ( more people being certified in their equipment at a higher level). This comes at an especially opportune time when the competition is beginning to creep up on them. What better way to market yourself than to say look at the amount of "highly trained" individuals out there who can support my equipment. John Hardman wrote: > Hi All > > Well Cisco has announced their plans... > > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/whatsnew.html > > -- > John Hardman CCNP MCSE Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=12366&t=12345 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345]
I dont believe its going to get any easier from what I understand. Also, it works your troubleshooting skill throught the Lab. I think this is good. I dont think you have to worry about the prestige diminishing. Raul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of anand ghody Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 2:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345] I think this also means that you are going to see the prestige of the certification diminish. Part of the prestige is that only a few people in the world have the certification. If say 80- 85% of people taking the exam pass then increasing the number of people taking the exam will increase the amount of people that pass (more people will be certified at a faster rate). Part of the reason CCIE are paid so much is that there are so few out there. From a supply and demand perspective does this not decrease the monetary advantage of attaining the certification for the individual. For Cisco this is great ( more people being certified in their equipment at a higher level). This comes at an especially opportune time when the competition is beginning to creep up on them. What better way to market yourself than to say look at the amount of "highly trained" individuals out there who can support my equipment. John Hardman wrote: > Hi All > > Well Cisco has announced their plans... > > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/whatsnew.html > > -- > John Hardman CCNP MCSE Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=12367&t=12345 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345]
I do not think Cisco wishes to have an exclusive elite of highly paid individuals which form part of an club. What Cisco surely wants is a group of highly certified individuals that can support their products (as per the comments of another poster). Cisco are not in the business of creating elite clubs but like all big business making money. The Certification System and tracks is there for Cisco to validate their products and systems and to beat off the competition. I think that in the future the mere possession of CCIE will not guarantee riches but a spread of Certifications, Cisco, Microsoft, Nortel, Checkpointmight. Work harder you slaves and for more masters! Having just gone through Windows 2000 I cannot wait for XP.not! K - Original Message - From: "Raul F. Fernandez" To: Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 8:07 PM Subject: RE: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345] > I dont believe its going to get any easier from what I understand. Also, it > works your troubleshooting skill throught the Lab. I think this is good. I > dont think you have to worry about the prestige diminishing. > > Raul > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > anand ghody > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 2:31 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345] > > > I think this also means that you are going to see the prestige of the > certification > diminish. Part of the prestige is that only a few people in the world have > the > certification. If say 80- 85% of people taking the exam pass then > increasing the number > of people taking the exam will increase the amount of people that pass (more > people will > be certified at a faster rate). Part of the reason CCIE are paid so much is > that there > are so few out there. From a supply and demand perspective does this not > decrease the > monetary advantage of attaining the certification for the individual. For > Cisco this is > great ( more people being certified in their equipment at a higher level). > This comes > at an especially opportune time when the competition is beginning to creep > up on them. > What better way to market yourself than to say look at the amount of "highly > trained" > individuals out there who can support my equipment. > > John Hardman wrote: > > > Hi All > > > > Well Cisco has announced their plans... > > > > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/whatsnew.html > > > > -- > > John Hardman CCNP MCSE Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=12369&t=12345 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345]
I don't suppose any of you geeks on this list have ever studied any economics? ;-> The laws of supply and demand are still in effect. Consider: 1) there are tens of thousands of us wannabees in the pipeline, drawn because of the anticipated salaries and other benefits the certification permits. lab format change or no, how many CCIE's will there be in five years, given current award rates? by my estimate well over 12,000. 2) there are powerful business advantages to consulting firms with enough CCIE's on staff to meet the highest Cisco Partner level. 3) it has been difficult for companies to obtain and / or retain CCIE's 4) it is expensive to set up and run testing facilities. in times of economic slowdown, particularly for a company whose stock has lost 75% of its value in the last year, Cisco management has other priorities. 5) Cisco is a marketing company first and foremost. Their sole interest is in selling product 6) Cisco is under pressure from its channel to do something to help the channel obtain the highest partnership status. 7) the dirty unspoken truth is that everyone - Cisco, the channel partners, customers - want something to happen to limit the salaries CCIE's currently demand. The only way that can happen is if there is a surplus of CCIE's in the marketplace. CCIE's and CCIE candidates, of course, hope otherwise. There is nothing that can be done to stop this train. thousands in the pipeline. thousands want their turn on the gravy train. the situation has occurred because of a shortage of skilled labor. supply and demand. salaries rose. with thousands drawn into the game, salaries will level out, or even decline. when I was in high school, the gospel of the day was that a college degree was the ticket to the good life. by the time I got my degree, it was not unheard of to find ads for people with college degrees who could lift 50 pounds. one last comment to end this long and ponderous post. I'm one of those whose next lab attempt will be the one day format. so when I pass I will be one of the CCIE with the *. NOT. the CCIE will remain as valuable as the person who wears it. Mr. Employer - mediocre employees are a dime a dozen. Outstanding employees are invaluable. In the end, it is your skill set, your comportment, your insight, and the value you bring to a situation that gives value. Not a 2 day versus a 1 day lab. best wishes to everyone in their journey to the top. Chuck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of anand ghody Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345] I think this also means that you are going to see the prestige of the certification diminish. Part of the prestige is that only a few people in the world have the certification. If say 80- 85% of people taking the exam pass then increasing the number of people taking the exam will increase the amount of people that pass (more people will be certified at a faster rate). Part of the reason CCIE are paid so much is that there are so few out there. From a supply and demand perspective does this not decrease the monetary advantage of attaining the certification for the individual. For Cisco this is great ( more people being certified in their equipment at a higher level). This comes at an especially opportune time when the competition is beginning to creep up on them. What better way to market yourself than to say look at the amount of "highly trained" individuals out there who can support my equipment. John Hardman wrote: > Hi All > > Well Cisco has announced their plans... > > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/whatsnew.html > > -- > John Hardman CCNP MCSE Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=12386&t=12345 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345]
Chuck, Thank you for another well put response. One good we can all ask ourselves now is In the end, does my skill set, comportment, and insight, bring to a situation the value a "CCIE" should project/display. Nigel.. >From: "Chuck Larrieu" >Reply-To: "Chuck Larrieu" >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345] >Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:58:41 -0400 > >I don't suppose any of you geeks on this list have ever studied any >economics? ;-> > >The laws of supply and demand are still in effect. Consider: > >1) there are tens of thousands of us wannabees in the pipeline, drawn >because of the anticipated salaries and other benefits the certification >permits. lab format change or no, how many CCIE's will there be in five >years, given current award rates? by my estimate well over 12,000. > >2) there are powerful business advantages to consulting firms with enough >CCIE's on staff to meet the highest Cisco Partner level. > >3) it has been difficult for companies to obtain and / or retain CCIE's > >4) it is expensive to set up and run testing facilities. in times of >economic slowdown, particularly for a company whose stock has lost 75% of >its value in the last year, Cisco management has other priorities. > >5) Cisco is a marketing company first and foremost. Their sole interest is >in selling product > >6) Cisco is under pressure from its channel to do something to help the >channel obtain the highest partnership status. > >7) the dirty unspoken truth is that everyone - Cisco, the channel partners, >customers - want something to happen to limit the salaries CCIE's currently >demand. The only way that can happen is if there is a surplus of CCIE's in >the marketplace. CCIE's and CCIE candidates, of course, hope otherwise. > >There is nothing that can be done to stop this train. thousands in the >pipeline. thousands want their turn on the gravy train. the situation has >occurred because of a shortage of skilled labor. supply and demand. salaries >rose. with thousands drawn into the game, salaries will level out, or even >decline. > >when I was in high school, the gospel of the day was that a college degree >was the ticket to the good life. by the time I got my degree, it was not >unheard of to find ads for people with college degrees who could lift 50 >pounds. > >one last comment to end this long and ponderous post. I'm one of those whose >next lab attempt will be the one day format. so when I pass I will be one of >the CCIE with the *. NOT. the CCIE will remain as valuable as the person who >wears it. Mr. Employer - mediocre employees are a dime a dozen. Outstanding >employees are invaluable. In the end, it is your skill set, your >comportment, your insight, and the value you bring to a situation that gives >value. Not a 2 day versus a 1 day lab. > >best wishes to everyone in their journey to the top. > >Chuck > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of >anand ghody >Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 11:31 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345] > > >I think this also means that you are going to see the prestige of the >certification >diminish. Part of the prestige is that only a few people in the world have >the >certification. If say 80- 85% of people taking the exam pass then >increasing the number >of people taking the exam will increase the amount of people that pass (more >people will >be certified at a faster rate). Part of the reason CCIE are paid so much is >that there >are so few out there. From a supply and demand perspective does this not >decrease the >monetary advantage of attaining the certification for the individual. For >Cisco this is >great ( more people being certified in their equipment at a higher level). >This comes >at an especially opportune time when the competition is beginning to creep >up on them. >What better way to market yourself than to say look at the amount of "highly >trained" >individuals out there who can support my equipment. > >John Hardman wrote: > > > Hi All > > > > Well Cisco has announced their plans... > > > > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/whatsnew.html > > misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=12399&t=12345 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FWD: Re: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345]
Just popped up on alt.cert angelfire.com/my/no1daylab/new_format.html let the flames begin... -- Original Message -- From: "hal9001" Reply-To: "hal9001" Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 15:49:58 -0400 I do not think Cisco wishes to have an exclusive elite of highly paid individuals which form part of an club. What Cisco surely wants is a group of highly certified individuals that can support their products (as per the comments of another poster). Cisco are not in the business of creating elite clubs but like all big business making money. The Certification System and tracks is there for Cisco to validate their products and systems and to beat off the competition. I think that in the future the mere possession of CCIE will not guarantee riches but a spread of Certifications, Cisco, Microsoft, Nortel, Checkpointmight. Work harder you slaves and for more masters! Having just gone through Windows 2000 I cannot wait for XP.not! K - Original Message - From: "Raul F. Fernandez" To: Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 8:07 PM Subject: RE: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345] > I dont believe its going to get any easier from what I understand. Also, it > works your troubleshooting skill throught the Lab. I think this is good. I > dont think you have to worry about the prestige diminishing. > > Raul > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > anand ghody > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 2:31 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345] > > > I think this also means that you are going to see the prestige of the > certification > diminish. Part of the prestige is that only a few people in the world have > the > certification. If say 80- 85% of people taking the exam pass then > increasing the number > of people taking the exam will increase the amount of people that pass (more > people will > be certified at a faster rate). Part of the reason CCIE are paid so much is > that there > are so few out there. From a supply and demand perspective does this not > decrease the > monetary advantage of attaining the certification for the individual. For > Cisco this is > great ( more people being certified in their equipment at a higher level). > This comes > at an especially opportune time when the competition is beginning to creep > up on them. > What better way to market yourself than to say look at the amount of "highly > trained" > individuals out there who can support my equipment. > > John Hardman wrote: > > > Hi All > > > > Well Cisco has announced their plans... > > > > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/whatsnew.html > > > > -- > > John Hardman CCNP MCSE Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=12371&t=12345 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345]
, that's neat. - Original Message - From: "Eric Rogers" To: Sent: Saturday, 14 July, 2001 16:05 Subject: FWD: Re: FYI CCIE Changes announced [7:12345] > Just popped up on alt.cert > > angelfire.com/my/no1daylab/new_format.html > > let the flames begin... > > -- Original Message -- > From: "hal9001" > Reply-To: "hal9001" > Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 15:49:58 -0400 > > I do not think Cisco wishes to have an exclusive elite of highly paid > individuals which form part of an club. What Cisco surely wants is a group > of highly certified individuals that can support their products (as per the > comments of another poster). Cisco are not in the business of creating elite > clubs but like all big business making money. The Certification System and > tracks is there for Cisco to validate their products and systems and to beat > off the competition. I think that in the future the mere possession of CCIE > will not guarantee riches but a spread of Certifications, Cisco, Microsoft, > Nortel, Checkpointmight. Work harder you slaves and for more masters! > Having just gone through Windows 2000 I cannot wait for XP.not! > > K Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=12373&t=12345 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
