RE: Word of Caution [7:23363]
While I don't judge people by their mistakes, I do tend to judge them by how they correct them. Was it Debbie's fault your systems went down? No. I don't pretend to live in a world where malfunctions don't happen, but when your systems take a crap you should be ready to deal with the fallout. Seems to me that just eating the $500 would have been cheaper than having to now clean up the mess and deal with the lost revenue of many, such as myself, that will never buy anything from you. Besides, it would appear that Debbie's bad experience was hardly the first according to other members of our group and we just don't need crap like that to deal with, especially since we have quality vendors like Brad Ellis (Big Brad!) to work with instead. Before you ask, I don't work with Brad in any way...I am a customer only. Rik Buy Only From Brad Guyler -Original Message- From: Robert Davie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 10:43 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Word of Caution [7:23363] I would like to respond to a message (below) that went out over a GroupStudy mailing list regarding our company. When our system is functioning properly (99%) we have two mechanisms that work that were not working when Debbie placed her order: 1.. A guard against low-ball offers for items that have sale prices. This guard prevents offers of less than 80% of the sale price. (Debbie's offer was $100 for a $600 item.) 2.. Order Acceptance. This was malfunctioning and accepting orders that were being declined. After explaining this to Debbie, who appears to be a very knowledgeable and market savvy person, we felt that the system malfunction would garner her understanding. She threatened to send out an email to the GroupStudy mailing list if we did not fulfill the order, and we indicated that we would respond to her email message. Having been in sales all my life and career and with happy customers ranging from ATT to Sun Microsystems, I feel this is a very unfortunate occurrence. Robert Davie EVP Ph: 919-388-9993 x3102 Fax: 919-388-9992 ITParade.com, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Debbie Westall Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 9:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT: A Word of Caution about Vendor [7:23244] Greetings, I wanted to give everyone a heads-up on the list about a vendor I recently dealt with over the Internet. The web site is www.itparade.com. They are a site that acts as a middleman for sellers of equipment. Last week I put an offer on a router (2501). I admit the offer was very low, but I had never used this site so I figured why not. A couple of hours later I received an email from them saying that my offer was accepted by the seller and I was to log on to another site to make payment arrangements. I logged into PitNeyPay.com to add my credit card info as requested. The next day I received a phone call from a person at itparade, saying they have pulled my offer, that the seller actually rejected my offer but itparade's web site was broken so the email went out incorrectly. The person at itparade, also mentioned that the seller would be more than happy to sell me that piece of equipment for 600.00 rather than my offer. Which would have been more than double my initial offer. Needless to say, I rejected that. I spoke to the Executive VP and the CEO of the company to no avail. They will not stand behind the email that came to me that my offer was accepted. Just wanted to give everyone a heads-up to STAY AWAY from this site. If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is.. Has anyone used them before or heard of them. Thanks Debbie __ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=23677t=23363 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Word of Caution [7:23363]
Rick hit it right on the head. I take an apology from a sale guy with a grain of salt. Robert, why don't you do the honorable thing and sell to debbie what she bidded for when she placed the order? I teach networking a a community college and I have a lot of students asking me where they can purchase networking gears. One thing I will tell them for sure is to stay away from www.itparade.com. As Rick has mentioned before, we don't judge people by their mistakes, we judge people on how they correct them. If memory serves me right, I remembered a few months back United Airlines mistakenly posted on their web sites flying coast to coast for $1.00. Guess what happened, United Airlines has to honor it because it is the right thing to do. In this case, we have a sale guy try to come up with a lame excuse that their system was not functioning properly at the time the customer placed orders. Believe me, in this age of instant messaging, www.itparade.com will be the place that networking folks stay away when it comes to purchasing equipments. From: Rik Guyler Reply-To: Rik Guyler To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Word of Caution [7:23363] Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 10:20:56 -0400 While I don't judge people by their mistakes, I do tend to judge them by how they correct them. Was it Debbie's fault your systems went down? No. I don't pretend to live in a world where malfunctions don't happen, but when your systems take a crap you should be ready to deal with the fallout. Seems to me that just eating the $500 would have been cheaper than having to now clean up the mess and deal with the lost revenue of many, such as myself, that will never buy anything from you. Besides, it would appear that Debbie's bad experience was hardly the first according to other members of our group and we just don't need crap like that to deal with, especially since we have quality vendors like Brad Ellis (Big Brad!) to work with instead. Before you ask, I don't work with Brad in any way...I am a customer only. Rik Buy Only From Brad Guyler -Original Message- From: Robert Davie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 10:43 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Word of Caution [7:23363] I would like to respond to a message (below) that went out over a GroupStudy mailing list regarding our company. When our system is functioning properly (99%) we have two mechanisms that work that were not working when Debbie placed her order: 1.. A guard against low-ball offers for items that have sale prices. This guard prevents offers of less than 80% of the sale price. (Debbie's offer was $100 for a $600 item.) 2.. Order Acceptance. This was malfunctioning and accepting orders that were being declined. After explaining this to Debbie, who appears to be a very knowledgeable and market savvy person, we felt that the system malfunction would garner her understanding. She threatened to send out an email to the GroupStudy mailing list if we did not fulfill the order, and we indicated that we would respond to her email message. Having been in sales all my life and career and with happy customers ranging from ATT to Sun Microsystems, I feel this is a very unfortunate occurrence. Robert Davie EVP Ph: 919-388-9993 x3102 Fax: 919-388-9992 ITParade.com, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Debbie Westall Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 9:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT: A Word of Caution about Vendor [7:23244] Greetings, I wanted to give everyone a heads-up on the list about a vendor I recently dealt with over the Internet. The web site is www.itparade.com. They are a site that acts as a middleman for sellers of equipment. Last week I put an offer on a router (2501). I admit the offer was very low, but I had never used this site so I figured why not. A couple of hours later I received an email from them saying that my offer was accepted by the seller and I was to log on to another site to make payment arrangements. I logged into PitNeyPay.com to add my credit card info as requested. The next day I received a phone call from a person at itparade, saying they have pulled my offer, that the seller actually rejected my offer but itparade's web site was broken so the email went out incorrectly. The person at itparade, also mentioned that the seller would be more than happy to sell me that piece of equipment for 600.00 rather than my offer. Which would have been more than double my initial offer. Needless to say, I rejected that. I spoke to the Executive VP and the CEO of the company to no avail. They will not stand behind the email that came to me that my offer was accepted. Just wanted to give everyone a heads-up to STAY AWAY from this site. If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is.. Has anyone used them before or heard of them. Thanks Debbie __ Do
RE: Word of Caution [7:23363]
I looked at their web site. What are they doing? Asking retail for refurbished equipment? They say all unreasonable offers will be refused. Give me a break. I think better deals can be found on eBay, and we all know you usually don't get any deals there. Now if only I had something useful to post... Ken Anh Lam 10/21/01 10:43AM Rick hit it right on the head. I take an apology from a sale guy with a grain of salt. Robert, why don't you do the honorable thing and sell to debbie what she bidded for when she placed the order? I teach networking a a community college and I have a lot of students asking me where they can purchase networking gears. One thing I will tell them for sure is to stay away from www.itparade.com. As Rick has mentioned before, we don't judge people by their mistakes, we judge people on how they correct them. If memory serves me right, I remembered a few months back United Airlines mistakenly posted on their web sites flying coast to coast for $1.00. Guess what happened, United Airlines has to honor it because it is the right thing to do. In this case, we have a sale guy try to come up with a lame excuse that their system was not functioning properly at the time the customer placed orders. Believe me, in this age of instant messaging, www.itparade.com will be the place that networking folks stay away when it comes to purchasing equipments. [snip] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=23686t=23363 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Word of Caution [7:23363]
I would like to respond to a message (below) that went out over a GroupStudy mailing list regarding our company. When our system is functioning properly (99%) we have two mechanisms that work that were not working when Debbie placed her order: 1.. A guard against low-ball offers for items that have sale prices. This guard prevents offers of less than 80% of the sale price. (Debbie's offer was $100 for a $600 item.) 2.. Order Acceptance. This was malfunctioning and accepting orders that were being declined. After explaining this to Debbie, who appears to be a very knowledgeable and market savvy person, we felt that the system malfunction would garner her understanding. She threatened to send out an email to the GroupStudy mailing list if we did not fulfill the order, and we indicated that we would respond to her email message. Having been in sales all my life and career and with happy customers ranging from ATT to Sun Microsystems, I feel this is a very unfortunate occurrence. Robert Davie EVP Ph: 919-388-9993 x3102 Fax: 919-388-9992 ITParade.com, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Debbie Westall Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 9:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT: A Word of Caution about Vendor [7:23244] Greetings, I wanted to give everyone a heads-up on the list about a vendor I recently dealt with over the Internet. The web site is www.itparade.com. They are a site that acts as a middleman for sellers of equipment. Last week I put an offer on a router (2501). I admit the offer was very low, but I had never used this site so I figured why not. A couple of hours later I received an email from them saying that my offer was accepted by the seller and I was to log on to another site to make payment arrangements. I logged into PitNeyPay.com to add my credit card info as requested. The next day I received a phone call from a person at itparade, saying they have pulled my offer, that the seller actually rejected my offer but itparade's web site was broken so the email went out incorrectly. The person at itparade, also mentioned that the seller would be more than happy to sell me that piece of equipment for 600.00 rather than my offer. Which would have been more than double my initial offer. Needless to say, I rejected that. I spoke to the Executive VP and the CEO of the company to no avail. They will not stand behind the email that came to me that my offer was accepted. Just wanted to give everyone a heads-up to STAY AWAY from this site. If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is.. Has anyone used them before or heard of them. Thanks Debbie __ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=23363t=23363 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Word of Caution [7:23363]
I feel it necessary to respond to this issue at this point in time. I do not know Debbie, nor have I communicated with her in any way and I do not intend to do so regarding this issue. I try to never judge a company or person before hearing BOTH sides of the story. However, since you felt it necessary to weigh-in on Debbie's email. I will now act as judge on what appears to be the facts. I do not know what country either your company or Debbie are operating in, however I can only quote United States UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) which applies to ALL transactions in ALL states, whether by private parties or public businesses. Only Three things must exists for a legal contract to exist: 1 - An Offer Debbie's submission of her $100 bid to your system. 2 - Acceptance Your email back to Debbie stating that her offer had been accepted 3 - Consideration When Debbie provided her credit card number to the Pay system, it is legally the same as placing cash in the hand of one of your company's employees. Based on the evidence above, you both continue to have a legally binding contract and in addition, you both have written evidence of that contract (in other words, not a verbal contract) which makes the case very strong. I am not a lawyer and this is based on my personal understanding of the law. If both parties operate in the United States, your company not only made a very poor decision by not fulfilling your obligation to Debbie, you have also broken US commercial tort law. John Squeo Robert Davie cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: Word of Caution [7:23363] nobody@groupst udy.com 10/18/01 10:43 AM Please respond to Robert Davie I would like to respond to a message (below) that went out over a GroupStudy mailing list regarding our company. When our system is functioning properly (99%) we have two mechanisms that work that were not working when Debbie placed her order: 1.. A guard against low-ball offers for items that have sale prices. This guard prevents offers of less than 80% of the sale price. (Debbie's offer was $100 for a $600 item.) 2.. Order Acceptance. This was malfunctioning and accepting orders that were being declined. After explaining this to Debbie, who appears to be a very knowledgeable and market savvy person, we felt that the system malfunction would garner her understanding. She threatened to send out an email to the GroupStudy mailing list if we did not fulfill the order, and we indicated that we would respond to her email message. Having been in sales all my life and career and with happy customers ranging from ATT to Sun Microsystems, I feel this is a very unfortunate occurrence. Robert Davie EVP Ph: 919-388-9993 x3102 Fax: 919-388-9992 ITParade.com, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Debbie Westall Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 9:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT: A Word of Caution about Vendor [7:23244] Greetings, I wanted to give everyone a heads-up on the list about a vendor I recently dealt with over the Internet. The web site is www.itparade.com. They are a site that acts as a middleman for sellers of equipment. Last week I put an offer on a router (2501). I admit the offer was very low, but I had never used this site so I figured why not. A couple of hours later I received an email from them saying that my offer was accepted by the seller and I was to log on to another site to make payment arrangements. I logged into PitNeyPay.com to add my credit card info as requested. The next day I received a phone call from a person at itparade, saying they have pulled my offer, that the seller actually rejected my offer but itparade's web site was broken so the email went out incorrectly. The person at itparade, also mentioned that the seller would be more than happy to sell me that piece of equipment for 600.00 rather than my offer. Which would have been more than double my initial offer. Needless to say, I rejected that. I spoke to the Executive VP and the CEO of the company to no avail. They will not stand behind the email that came to me that my offer was accepted. Just wanted to give everyone a heads-up to STAY AWAY from this site
Re: Word of Caution [7:23363]
It is unfortunate that this company will not stand behind their errors - myriad stories exist about $1 airline tickets to Paris and other elements. The email says 80% of price - $600 - 80% is a $20 error if I read this right. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I feel it necessary to respond to this issue at this point in time. I do not know Debbie, nor have I communicated with her in any way and I do not intend to do so regarding this issue. I try to never judge a company or person before hearing BOTH sides of the story. However, since you felt it necessary to weigh-in on Debbie's email. I will now act as judge on what appears to be the facts. I do not know what country either your company or Debbie are operating in, however I can only quote United States UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) which applies to ALL transactions in ALL states, whether by private parties or public businesses. Only Three things must exists for a legal contract to exist: 1 - An Offer Debbie's submission of her $100 bid to your system. 2 - Acceptance Your email back to Debbie stating that her offer had been accepted 3 - Consideration When Debbie provided her credit card number to the Pay system, it is legally the same as placing cash in the hand of one of your company's employees. Based on the evidence above, you both continue to have a legally binding contract and in addition, you both have written evidence of that contract (in other words, not a verbal contract) which makes the case very strong. I am not a lawyer and this is based on my personal understanding of the law. If both parties operate in the United States, your company not only made a very poor decision by not fulfilling your obligation to Debbie, you have also broken US commercial tort law. John Squeo Robert Davie cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: Word of Caution [7:23363] nobody@groupst udy.com 10/18/01 10:43 AM Please respond to Robert Davie I would like to respond to a message (below) that went out over a GroupStudy mailing list regarding our company. When our system is functioning properly (99%) we have two mechanisms that work that were not working when Debbie placed her order: 1.. A guard against low-ball offers for items that have sale prices. This guard prevents offers of less than 80% of the sale price. (Debbie's offer was $100 for a $600 item.) 2.. Order Acceptance. This was malfunctioning and accepting orders that were being declined. After explaining this to Debbie, who appears to be a very knowledgeable and market savvy person, we felt that the system malfunction would garner her understanding. She threatened to send out an email to the GroupStudy mailing list if we did not fulfill the order, and we indicated that we would respond to her email message. Having been in sales all my life and career and with happy customers ranging from ATT to Sun Microsystems, I feel this is a very unfortunate occurrence. Robert Davie EVP Ph: 919-388-9993 x3102 Fax: 919-388-9992 ITParade.com, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Debbie Westall Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 9:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT: A Word of Caution about Vendor [7:23244] Greetings, I wanted to give everyone a heads-up on the list about a vendor I recently dealt with over the Internet. The web site is www.itparade.com. They are a site that acts as a middleman for sellers of equipment. Last week I put an offer on a router (2501). I admit the offer was very low, but I had never used this site so I figured why not. A couple of hours later I received an email from them saying that my offer was accepted by the seller and I was to log on to another site to make payment arrangements. I logged into PitNeyPay.com to add my credit card info as requested. The next day I received a phone call from a person at itparade, saying they have pulled my offer, that the seller actually rejected my offer but itparade's web site was broken so the email went out incorrectly. The person at itparade, also mentioned
RE: Word of Caution [7:23363]
It goes to show us that they are not interested in a long run strategy. If they were they would be focused on customer satisfaction and relationship building. It is common retail/marketing 101 knowledge that you make your greatest return from your existing clients and that it cost more money to go out and get new customers. Here it would have been advantageous to simply issue a statement to Debbie explaining what they explained here AND said given our commitment to our customers we will honor our unintended commitment. In this Debbie becomes a satisfied customer who will return in the future and spend more money, and tell others here and else where about her positive experience. So to save $400 or so the just lost a huge potential amount. my .02 worth: no change necessary. Jon -Original Message- From: Robert Padjen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 11:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Word of Caution [7:23363] It is unfortunate that this company will not stand behind their errors - myriad stories exist about $1 airline tickets to Paris and other elements. The email says 80% of price - $600 - 80% is a $20 error if I read this right. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I feel it necessary to respond to this issue at this point in time. I do not know Debbie, nor have I communicated with her in any way and I do not intend to do so regarding this issue. I try to never judge a company or person before hearing BOTH sides of the story. However, since you felt it necessary to weigh-in on Debbie's email. I will now act as judge on what appears to be the facts. I do not know what country either your company or Debbie are operating in, however I can only quote United States UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) which applies to ALL transactions in ALL states, whether by private parties or public businesses. Only Three things must exists for a legal contract to exist: 1 - An Offer Debbie's submission of her $100 bid to your system. 2 - Acceptance Your email back to Debbie stating that her offer had been accepted 3 - Consideration When Debbie provided her credit card number to the Pay system, it is legally the same as placing cash in the hand of one of your company's employees. Based on the evidence above, you both continue to have a legally binding contract and in addition, you both have written evidence of that contract (in other words, not a verbal contract) which makes the case very strong. I am not a lawyer and this is based on my personal understanding of the law. If both parties operate in the United States, your company not only made a very poor decision by not fulfilling your obligation to Debbie, you have also broken US commercial tort law. John Squeo Robert Davie cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: Word of Caution [7:23363] nobody@groupst udy.com 10/18/01 10:43 AM Please respond to Robert Davie I would like to respond to a message (below) that went out over a GroupStudy mailing list regarding our company. When our system is functioning properly (99%) we have two mechanisms that work that were not working when Debbie placed her order: 1.. A guard against low-ball offers for items that have sale prices. This guard prevents offers of less than 80% of the sale price. (Debbie's offer was $100 for a $600 item.) 2.. Order Acceptance. This was malfunctioning and accepting orders that were being declined. After explaining this to Debbie, who appears to be a very knowledgeable and market savvy person, we felt that the system malfunction would garner her understanding. She threatened to send out an email to the GroupStudy mailing list if we did not fulfill the order, and we indicated that we would respond to her email message. Having been in sales all my life and career and with happy customers ranging from ATT to Sun Microsystems, I feel this is a very unfortunate occurrence. Robert Davie EVP Ph: 919-388-9993 x3102 Fax: 919-388-9992 ITParade.com, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Debbie Westall Sent: Wednesday
Re: Word of Caution [7:23363]
Jon, Right on. I was trying to post the same response you did but could not put it together. The amazing thing to me is that the older I get the more I see of companies who do not follow the blueprint you laid out and instead go the other way as this company at www.itparade.com has done. I was curious as to whether or not this was a trend in customer service?? Anyway, great post Jon. In my opinion it is in very poor taste for a company to hide behind technical problems to sheild themselves from common courtesy and fairness. I won't find myself joining the itparade anytime soon.. My .02 Mike Linehan - Original Message - From: Jon Krabbenschmidt To: Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 2:26 PM Subject: RE: Word of Caution [7:23363] It goes to show us that they are not interested in a long run strategy. If they were they would be focused on customer satisfaction and relationship building. It is common retail/marketing 101 knowledge that you make your greatest return from your existing clients and that it cost more money to go out and get new customers. Here it would have been advantageous to simply issue a statement to Debbie explaining what they explained here AND said given our commitment to our customers we will honor our unintended commitment. In this Debbie becomes a satisfied customer who will return in the future and spend more money, and tell others here and else where about her positive experience. So to save $400 or so the just lost a huge potential amount. my .02 worth: no change necessary. Jon -Original Message- From: Robert Padjen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 11:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Word of Caution [7:23363] It is unfortunate that this company will not stand behind their errors - myriad stories exist about $1 airline tickets to Paris and other elements. The email says 80% of price - $600 - 80% is a $20 error if I read this right. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I feel it necessary to respond to this issue at this point in time. I do not know Debbie, nor have I communicated with her in any way and I do not intend to do so regarding this issue. I try to never judge a company or person before hearing BOTH sides of the story. However, since you felt it necessary to weigh-in on Debbie's email. I will now act as judge on what appears to be the facts. I do not know what country either your company or Debbie are operating in, however I can only quote United States UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) which applies to ALL transactions in ALL states, whether by private parties or public businesses. Only Three things must exists for a legal contract to exist: 1 - An Offer Debbie's submission of her $100 bid to your system. 2 - Acceptance Your email back to Debbie stating that her offer had been accepted 3 - Consideration When Debbie provided her credit card number to the Pay system, it is legally the same as placing cash in the hand of one of your company's employees. Based on the evidence above, you both continue to have a legally binding contract and in addition, you both have written evidence of that contract (in other words, not a verbal contract) which makes the case very strong. I am not a lawyer and this is based on my personal understanding of the law. If both parties operate in the United States, your company not only made a very poor decision by not fulfilling your obligation to Debbie, you have also broken US commercial tort law. John Squeo Robert Davie cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: Word of Caution [7:23363] nobody@groupst udy.com 10/18/01 10:43 AM Please respond to Robert Davie I would like to respond to a message (below) that went out over a GroupStudy mailing list regarding our company. When our system is functioning properly (99%) we have two mechanisms that work that were not working when Debbie placed her order: 1.. A guard against low-ball offers for items that have sale prices. This guard prevents offers of less than 80% of the sale price. (Debbie's offer was $100 for a $600 item.) 2.. Order Acceptance. This was malfunctioning and accepting orders that were being declined. After explaining this to Debbie, who appears to be a very knowledgeable and market savvy person, we felt that the system malfunction would garner her understanding. She threatened to send out an email to the GroupStudy mailing list if we did not fulfill the order, and we indicated that we would respond to her email message. Having been in sales all my life and career and with happy customers ranging from ATT to Sun Microsystems, I feel this is a very
Re: Subject: Re: Word of Caution [7:23363]
In general, I agree with the passage below, because it reflects the major tenets of the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code). A couple of clarifications and additions are in order. For starters, the UCC is assemblage of rules/codes that effect commerce, particularly interstate commerce. As such, any transgressions against the UCC are typically litigated in *State* courts, and the State UCCs, typically govern tort actions, unless a class action is assigned(although not always), or too much divergence on individual State UCCs precludes assignment of the case to a State Court. Most states have more restrictive definitions for contracts, with nearly all of them having provisions for a fourth aspect, namely competent parties. Here is a representative definition from the state of California, which addresses this as a contract defense, rather than a principal component of a legal contract: Capacity of the Parties In order to be bound to a contract, the parties must be competent to enter into such a legal arrangement. Underage persons, persons who are mentally ill, and intoxicated persons are usually not held to the contracts they enter. However, a minor may have the option of enforcing a contract. More here: http://www.lectlaw.com/def/c078.htm http://www.lectlaw.com/def/c123.htm I assume that all parties to the transaction meet the criteria specified above. Regarding the rest of the post below, it is generally correct and coincides with my knowledge of the UCC and government contracting. While I am hardly a lawyer (nor would I want to be:-), I did work in government contracting for nearly four years, a better part of that time spent as a Contracting Specialist. Back to your regularly scheduled tech talk channel. HTH, Paul Werner I feel it necessary to respond to this issue at this point in time. I do not know Debbie, nor have I communicated with her in any way and I do not intend to do so regarding this issue. I try to never judge a company or person before hearing BOTH sides of the story. However, since you felt it necessary to weigh-in on Debbie's email. I will now act as judge on what appears to be the facts. I do not know what country either your company or Debbie are operating in, however I can only quote United States UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) which applies to ALL transactions in ALL states, whether by private parties or public businesses. Only Three things must exists for a legal contract to exist: 1 - An Offer Debbie's submission of her $100 bid to your system. 2 - Acceptance Your email back to Debbie stating that her offer had been accepted 3 - Consideration When Debbie provided her credit card number to the Pay system, it is legally the same as placing cash in the hand of one of your company's employees. Based on the evidence above, you both continue to have a legally binding contract and in addition, you both have written evidence of that contract (in other words, not a verbal contract) which makes the case very strong. I am not a lawyer and this is based on my personal understanding of the law. If both parties operate in the United States, your company not only made a very poor decision by not fulfilling your obligation to Debbie, you have also broken US commercial tort law. Get your own 800 number Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=23428t=23363 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Word of Caution [7:23363]
Thank you! Required reading for all those involved with customers should be: Fabled Service : Ordinary Acts, Extraordinary Outcomes by Betsy Sanders. I actually gave a copy of this book to some IT staff I had. A little story for ITPARADE: Some years back I owned a company based in Ca. that did Network Consulting, Distribution, and had some computer retail stores. I was visiting in one of the stores when I over heard an argument between the retail manager and a customer. I walked over and listened. It seems this fellow had purchased a computer system for his family and was having nothing but problems with it. He had brought it into the service center several times only to return home and end up with the same problems. The sales manager was standing his ground that the problem was the software this man and his family were installing. I stepped in and gave the man all his money back and offered to cover his time for the trips into the service center. I than told him that I stand behind our product and I too, from the sounds of the problems, believed it was some software. To prove this point I told him I wanted him to keep the computer. He walked away with his money and the computer. I than worked with the sales manager as I believe that there is no such thing as a bad employee only a bad manager (me being the bad manager). Some months later I was requested to join a meeting between our network sales group and a new client. Turns out the president of that firm was this very same gentleman. He said that I was right and it turned out all the problems with the computer were due to be some old Disney software that his kids were loading. Because of his experience with me he was awarding this several hundred thousand dollar contract to my company and wanted me to know. I thanked him, but explained that in this case I would not be so inclined to refund his money and let him keep the goods and services! :) Listen up and learn ITPARADE Jon -Original Message- From: Michael Linehan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 1:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Word of Caution [7:23363] Jon, Right on. I was trying to post the same response you did but could not put it together. The amazing thing to me is that the older I get the more I see of companies who do not follow the blueprint you laid out and instead go the other way as this company at www.itparade.com has done. I was curious as to whether or not this was a trend in customer service?? Anyway, great post Jon. In my opinion it is in very poor taste for a company to hide behind technical problems to sheild themselves from common courtesy and fairness. I won't find myself joining the itparade anytime soon.. My .02 Mike Linehan - Original Message - From: Jon Krabbenschmidt To: Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 2:26 PM Subject: RE: Word of Caution [7:23363] It goes to show us that they are not interested in a long run strategy. If they were they would be focused on customer satisfaction and relationship building. It is common retail/marketing 101 knowledge that you make your greatest return from your existing clients and that it cost more money to go out and get new customers. Here it would have been advantageous to simply issue a statement to Debbie explaining what they explained here AND said given our commitment to our customers we will honor our unintended commitment. In this Debbie becomes a satisfied customer who will return in the future and spend more money, and tell others here and else where about her positive experience. So to save $400 or so the just lost a huge potential amount. my .02 worth: no change necessary. Jon -Original Message- From: Robert Padjen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 11:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Word of Caution [7:23363] It is unfortunate that this company will not stand behind their errors - myriad stories exist about $1 airline tickets to Paris and other elements. The email says 80% of price - $600 - 80% is a $20 error if I read this right. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I feel it necessary to respond to this issue at this point in time. I do not know Debbie, nor have I communicated with her in any way and I do not intend to do so regarding this issue. I try to never judge a company or person before hearing BOTH sides of the story. However, since you felt it necessary to weigh-in on Debbie's email. I will now act as judge on what appears to be the facts. I do not know what country either your company or Debbie are operating in, however I can only quote United States UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) which applies to ALL transactions in ALL states, whether by private parties or public businesses. Only Three things must exists for a legal contract to exist: 1 - An Offer Debbie's submission of her $100 bid to your system. 2 - Acceptance Your
Re: Word of Caution [7:23363]
John, EXACTLY. My guess is this lesson will go right over the heads of www.itparade.com brass. The money they saved will be a drop in the bucket to what will be lost in future sales.. Thanks Debbie for putting the word out and I guess we should thank them for their own sorry explanation Rick Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=23482t=23363 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
