Re: Off Topic - Riddle - "The Obvious Question" [7:38336]
A wise person once told me that it takes three things to make a project possible. It must be technically feasible, politically feasible, and financially feasible. The small college in question in this case has no interest in doing anything except providing the means for students living in dormitories to have POTS in their rooms ( no cracks from you dopers! ) They wanted a cheap way to double the number of POTS phones without having to pull new copper. So in terms of VoIP proposals, numbers two and three just weren't there. Not when they can pull copper for 20K and the best I could come up with on the VoIP side weighed in at around 100K. A full blown AVVID came in at around 175K, and did not include the monthly recurring for some ISDN PRI's for PSTN connectivity. Not to mention that now the college would have to take responsibility for billing. BTW, anyone worked with the VG248 box? I got mixed signals from Cisco about whether or not this box had to work in conjunction with a Call Manager, or if it could be used in conjunction with a router, thus providing 48 FXS ports for router to router VoIP. Chuck ""Hartnell, George"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Interesting, sometimes the obvious can be elusive. "Pull more copper", is > the obvious. Depending upon the telco layout, of course. > > But, like many of Chuck's musings, this brings up some more "real world" > questions. > > Given: Investment in analog/digital cu based phone sets at buildings. >A score, or more, of PBX's currently on telco copper. > New fiber to each PBX building for voice and data. (6 strands, sm) > > What transport over that fiber would be most cost-effective in the near > term? > How about the longer-term? > Where would convergence fit in the calculations? > > Let'see. Fiber T1 modems are simple, easy. Pluses. Minus? Old > technology, difficult for data guys to manage well, no convergence factor. > > IP transport for telephones over the fiber pair. Pluses, data guys > understand IP, ok convergence path. Bit more costly, currently, though. > > True VoIP. Haven't heard really glowing reports from large scale, lower > budget, institutions,...yet. "The" convergence path. Costly. Throw out > yer copper investment(s). > > Of course this is not an exhaustive discussion. Just a number of ways > 'round the communications barn. > > Best, G. > VP OGC > > > > > Subject: Off Topic - Riddle - "The Obvious Question" [7:38336] > > > > Hint - consider the ways one might convert analogue to optic. > > > > Chuck Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=38532&t=38336 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Off Topic - Riddle - "The Obvious Question" [7:38336]
Interesting, sometimes the obvious can be elusive. "Pull more copper", is the obvious. Depending upon the telco layout, of course. But, like many of Chuck's musings, this brings up some more "real world" questions. Given: Investment in analog/digital cu based phone sets at buildings. A score, or more, of PBX's currently on telco copper. New fiber to each PBX building for voice and data. (6 strands, sm) What transport over that fiber would be most cost-effective in the near term? How about the longer-term? Where would convergence fit in the calculations? Let'see. Fiber T1 modems are simple, easy. Pluses. Minus? Old technology, difficult for data guys to manage well, no convergence factor. IP transport for telephones over the fiber pair. Pluses, data guys understand IP, ok convergence path. Bit more costly, currently, though. True VoIP. Haven't heard really glowing reports from large scale, lower budget, institutions,...yet. "The" convergence path. Costly. Throw out yer copper investment(s). Of course this is not an exhaustive discussion. Just a number of ways 'round the communications barn. Best, G. VP OGC > > Subject: Off Topic - Riddle - "The Obvious Question" [7:38336] > > Hint - consider the ways one might convert analogue to optic. > > Chuck Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=38432&t=38336 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic - Riddle - "The Obvious Question" [7:38336]
oh all right, if you insist after pricing out the several options I came up with, it occurred to me that I should have asked "how much will it cost you to pull new copper to the buildings?" BTW, the answer was 20,000. For those of you who have priced out VoIP, AVVID, or FXS ports, you get the idea. Chuck ""Steven A. Ridder"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > You could have asked what grade copper. If it's 2 strand cat 3, you're sol, > but if they did cat5, you have plenty of pairs. If you started to get into > fiber cans to conver the signal you're getting too expensive. It would have > been cheaper to just run some more wire in the conduits between the > buildings. > > -- > > RFC 1149 Compliant. > > > ""Chuck"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > this is not one of those "I have a customer" questions, although "I have a > > customer" is the starting point. > > > > A couple of years ago a small college installed a new cable plant > consisting > > of fiber for data and copper for analogue phones between their main telco > > closet and a couple of dormitories. there are currently a total of 80 > > analogue phones in the dorms. The idea was that dorm occupants would > arrange > > for their own telephone service, and use an analogue phone to connect to > the > > telco. > > > > Well, room mates being what they are, the college decided that rather than > > continually break up fights resulting from disputes over telephone usage > and > > payment, they would provide the means for two phones per room rather than > > one. Ah, but there is only enough copper between the buildings to > > accommodate one phone per room. What to do. > > > > the customer's question to me - can he use the existing fiber to transport > > the analogue signal to the main telco closet? > > > > Well, I merrily mulled this over, and came up with a number of very clever > > solutions. But after having completed the work, it occurred to me that > > because I was so jazzed at trying to come up with a solution, I neglected > to > > ask a very important question. > > > > So today's quiz, for all you techno gurus - what is the question I > neglected > > to ask? > > > > for extra credit - why is that question so important? > > > > Hint - consider the ways one might convert analogue to optic. > > > > Chuck Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=38417&t=38336 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic - Riddle - "The Obvious Question" [7:38336]
We awaiteh thy answer ye Chuck, BTW, hate to plug our phone system, but it is an awesome low cost VOIP solution well designed for colleges and small institutions, email me if your interested. Doc Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=38403&t=38336 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic - Riddle - "The Obvious Question" [7:38336]
You could have asked what grade copper. If it's 2 strand cat 3, you're sol, but if they did cat5, you have plenty of pairs. If you started to get into fiber cans to conver the signal you're getting too expensive. It would have been cheaper to just run some more wire in the conduits between the buildings. -- RFC 1149 Compliant. ""Chuck"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > this is not one of those "I have a customer" questions, although "I have a > customer" is the starting point. > > A couple of years ago a small college installed a new cable plant consisting > of fiber for data and copper for analogue phones between their main telco > closet and a couple of dormitories. there are currently a total of 80 > analogue phones in the dorms. The idea was that dorm occupants would arrange > for their own telephone service, and use an analogue phone to connect to the > telco. > > Well, room mates being what they are, the college decided that rather than > continually break up fights resulting from disputes over telephone usage and > payment, they would provide the means for two phones per room rather than > one. Ah, but there is only enough copper between the buildings to > accommodate one phone per room. What to do. > > the customer's question to me - can he use the existing fiber to transport > the analogue signal to the main telco closet? > > Well, I merrily mulled this over, and came up with a number of very clever > solutions. But after having completed the work, it occurred to me that > because I was so jazzed at trying to come up with a solution, I neglected to > ask a very important question. > > So today's quiz, for all you techno gurus - what is the question I neglected > to ask? > > for extra credit - why is that question so important? > > Hint - consider the ways one might convert analogue to optic. > > Chuck Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=38400&t=38336 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic - Riddle - "The Obvious Question" [7:38336]
Chuck, Don't keep us in suspense too long. What was the 'obvious' question you were referring to?? And why was it important? And, since you said you had already done the work before this question occurred to you, what did you after coming to the realization that you missed something important? That's one of my biggest fears: to overlook something big until it's too late, or at least until late into a project. John >>> "Tshon" 3/14/02 11:40:12 PM >>> Chuck wrote: >this is not one of those "I have a customer" questions, although "I have a >customer" is the starting point. > >A couple of years ago a small college installed a new cable plant consisting >of fiber for data and copper for analogue phones between their main telco >closet and a couple of dormitories. there are currently a total of 80 >analogue phones in the dorms. The idea was that dorm occupants would arrange >for their own telephone service, and use an analogue phone to connect to the >telco. > >Well, room mates being what they are, the college decided that rather than >continually break up fights resulting from disputes over telephone usage and >payment, they would provide the means for two phones per room rather than >one. Ah, but there is only enough copper between the buildings to >accommodate one phone per room. What to do. > >the customer's question to me - can he use the existing fiber to transport >the analogue signal to the main telco closet? > >Well, I merrily mulled this over, and came up with a number of very clever >solutions. But after having completed the work, it occurred to me that >because I was so jazzed at trying to come up with a solution, I neglected to >ask a very important question. > >So today's quiz, for all you techno gurus - what is the question I neglected >to ask? > >for extra credit - why is that question so important? > >Hint - consider the ways one might convert analogue to optic. > >Chuck Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=38394&t=38336 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic - Riddle - "The Obvious Question" [7:38336]
Chuck wrote: >this is not one of those "I have a customer" questions, although "I have a >customer" is the starting point. > >A couple of years ago a small college installed a new cable plant consisting >of fiber for data and copper for analogue phones between their main telco >closet and a couple of dormitories. there are currently a total of 80 >analogue phones in the dorms. The idea was that dorm occupants would arrange >for their own telephone service, and use an analogue phone to connect to the >telco. > >Well, room mates being what they are, the college decided that rather than >continually break up fights resulting from disputes over telephone usage and >payment, they would provide the means for two phones per room rather than >one. Ah, but there is only enough copper between the buildings to >accommodate one phone per room. What to do. > >the customer's question to me - can he use the existing fiber to transport >the analogue signal to the main telco closet? > >Well, I merrily mulled this over, and came up with a number of very clever >solutions. But after having completed the work, it occurred to me that >because I was so jazzed at trying to come up with a solution, I neglected to >ask a very important question. > >So today's quiz, for all you techno gurus - what is the question I neglected >to ask? > >for extra credit - why is that question so important? > >Hint - consider the ways one might convert analogue to optic. > >Chuck Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=38357&t=38336 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Off Topic - Riddle - "The Obvious Question" [7:38336]
I have more questions than answers. Does each dorm have a wiring closet that connects back to the main demark? What is the wiring between the dorm rooms and any wiring closet? If there is enough copper between the rooms and a local wiring closet, then any equipment can go in the wiring closet. Many phone companies use devices that add a carrier frequency to an existing pair. The second conversation runs on the carrier. The equipment requires AC power. In the event of a power outage the second line fails. No need for the fiber. The phone company provides the equipment. One could install T-1s between buildings using the fiber. Then break out to copper to the rooms. Will the arrangement still be that each student is responsible for his/her own phone bill? If the school wants to provide everything - then run data and voice to every room. I'm thinking IP Phones. The fiber would be the backbone connecting the switches. Is there any networking presently in the dorms? What is the fiber used for? What boxes terminate the fiber? What do the students use for Internet connectivity? Does the local telco offer DSL with telephone service? How many telephone lines can concurrently run on a DSL line? Have you looked into the Cisco LRE Long Range Ethernet? Fiber single-mode or multi-mode? How many fibers? Terminated where and with what interface? Any spare? Is there a closet to house any gear? How secure is it? Is there sufficient power on dedicated circuits to power any equipment? Who is going to pay for all of this? > -Original Message- > From: Chuck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:20 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Off Topic - Riddle - "The Obvious Question" [7:38336] > > > this is not one of those "I have a customer" questions, > although "I have a > customer" is the starting point. > > A couple of years ago a small college installed a new cable > plant consisting > of fiber for data and copper for analogue phones between > their main telco > closet and a couple of dormitories. there are currently a total of 80 > analogue phones in the dorms. The idea was that dorm > occupants would arrange > for their own telephone service, and use an analogue phone to > connect to the > telco. > > Well, room mates being what they are, the college decided > that rather than > continually break up fights resulting from disputes over > telephone usage and > payment, they would provide the means for two phones per room > rather than > one. Ah, but there is only enough copper between the buildings to > accommodate one phone per room. What to do. > > the customer's question to me - can he use the existing fiber > to transport > the analogue signal to the main telco closet? > > Well, I merrily mulled this over, and came up with a number > of very clever > solutions. But after having completed the work, it occurred to me that > because I was so jazzed at trying to come up with a solution, > I neglected to > ask a very important question. > > So today's quiz, for all you techno gurus - what is the > question I neglected > to ask? > > for extra credit - why is that question so important? > > Hint - consider the ways one might convert analogue to optic. > > Chuck Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=38346&t=38336 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic - Riddle - "The Obvious Question" [7:38336]
Chuck, Is the question how much $$ you'll make on the project? :-) ""Chuck"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > this is not one of those "I have a customer" questions, although "I have a > customer" is the starting point. > > A couple of years ago a small college installed a new cable plant consisting > of fiber for data and copper for analogue phones between their main telco > closet and a couple of dormitories. there are currently a total of 80 > analogue phones in the dorms. The idea was that dorm occupants would arrange > for their own telephone service, and use an analogue phone to connect to the > telco. > > Well, room mates being what they are, the college decided that rather than > continually break up fights resulting from disputes over telephone usage and > payment, they would provide the means for two phones per room rather than > one. Ah, but there is only enough copper between the buildings to > accommodate one phone per room. What to do. > > the customer's question to me - can he use the existing fiber to transport > the analogue signal to the main telco closet? > > Well, I merrily mulled this over, and came up with a number of very clever > solutions. But after having completed the work, it occurred to me that > because I was so jazzed at trying to come up with a solution, I neglected to > ask a very important question. > > So today's quiz, for all you techno gurus - what is the question I neglected > to ask? > > for extra credit - why is that question so important? > > Hint - consider the ways one might convert analogue to optic. > > Chuck Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=38337&t=38336 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
