Re: Was Re: Where is Bruce Caslow ECP1 Class? [7:36501]
I agree, and the key words there are 'if you can afford it.' Some of these types of classes come out to almost $1,000/day! And while I agree that the instruction you get is incredibly valuable, it has to be justified. If you can afford to pay it out of pocket without going into debt, great. I'd bet most people aren't willing to fork over $4,000 in cash so they'll put it on a card. Many people want the CCIE certification because it increases their marketability and the likelihood of a really excellent salary, and that's why they're willing to shell out huge bucks to get it. But if the financial rewards are less likely, is it worth it to fork out this much cash on a single class? Just a thought. There's no doubt in my mind that if I had the cash I'd take of one these courses in a heartbeat. However, with a mortgage, two cars, two dogs and a kid on the way, my wife would kill me if I even suggested that we go into debt an additional $4,000 on *top* of all the money I've spent on books, practice labs, and routers. Like I said, just a thought. It seems they're pricing is based on demand figures from two years ago. Then again, they wouldn't be charging that much if people weren't paying it! In hindsight, I guess I don't really have a point and I'm babbling. :-) John >>> "James Haynes" 2/26/02 12:19:07 PM >>> Chuck, Well said. I believe you are your own business and should treat yourself as such. The perfect time to increase your value (if you can afford it) is during a slow market. You will be able to ride the wave when things do turn around. -- James Haynes Network Architect Cendant IT A+,MCSE,CCNA,CCDA,CCNP,CCDP, CQS-SNA/IPSS ""Chuck"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Take a lesson from the financial markets. Call this an investment in the > future. The best time to buy stocks is when they are low. ( > duhh ) > > The best time to educate and improve yourself is when the market is slow. > Now is the time to invest in yourself - training, experience, whatever you > can get. > > the market is starting to come back. it's hard to tell, but this is because > jobs are a trailing indicator. Companies will delay new hiring until they > are certain the market is recovering. The economy is indeed recovering as we > speak, according to the leading indicators. This will not be reflected in > the current job market. We may not see the job market improve for several > more months. But I can tell you, I'm seeing a lot more in terms of customer > activity than I was seeing six months ago. Or three months ago, for that > matter. the biggies are VoIP and VPN, but there is a good share of > infrastructure upgrade. Without the idiots from defunct places like M1 > mucking up the dialogue, customers are getting better advice IMHO, and are > seeing the value of investing now. > > I suspect the real question here is whether or not there is value to being a > CCIE as opposed to some other certification, or expertise in networking in > general. We could debate this point until doomsday and never come up with a > definitive conclusion. IMHO the skills acquired during the CCIE Lab prep > process are valuable. The cert itself may or may not be of value to a > particular employer. > > My own opinion - always invest in yourself. Invest in the skills that will > keep you challenged and keep you employed. > > Chuck > > > ""John Neiberger"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > I'm curious about the feelings others have toward this sort of class, > > especially considering the current job market. A couple of years ago if > > you had CCIE on your resume you were almost sure to get an outrageous > > salary with bonues and other killer benefits. This more than offset the > > cost of taking these sorts of classes. > > > > In the current market, I've heard that if you have a job position that > > requires a CCIE you'll get ten applications! With the HUGE numbers of > > unemployed engineers--of course, depending on where you live--it is no > > longer a 'sure thing' that you'll even be able to find a job, let alone > > get those huge salaries that made everyone salivate. > > > > So, if you had to pay for something like this out of your own pocket, > > do you think it's worth it? Do you think a one-week class that costs > > over $4,000 will pay off more in the long run than spending a fraction > > of that on a few more routers and some books and then putting in an > > extra month or two of practice and study? > > > > Here in Denver the market REALLY sucks right now. Even if I pass the > > lab the chances of me moving to a different company--and therefore > > getting a better salary--are slim to none and Slim might have just left > > town. > > > > I guess what I'm getting at is this: do you think these types of > > companies are pricing themselves right out of the market based on demand > > figures from a couple of years ago? Or, do they seem to be o
Re: Was Re: Where is Bruce Caslow ECP1 Class? [7:36501]
Chuck, Well said. I believe you are your own business and should treat yourself as such. The perfect time to increase your value (if you can afford it) is during a slow market. You will be able to ride the wave when things do turn around. -- James Haynes Network Architect Cendant IT A+,MCSE,CCNA,CCDA,CCNP,CCDP, CQS-SNA/IPSS ""Chuck"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Take a lesson from the financial markets. Call this an investment in the > future. The best time to buy stocks is when they are low. ( > duhh ) > > The best time to educate and improve yourself is when the market is slow. > Now is the time to invest in yourself - training, experience, whatever you > can get. > > the market is starting to come back. it's hard to tell, but this is because > jobs are a trailing indicator. Companies will delay new hiring until they > are certain the market is recovering. The economy is indeed recovering as we > speak, according to the leading indicators. This will not be reflected in > the current job market. We may not see the job market improve for several > more months. But I can tell you, I'm seeing a lot more in terms of customer > activity than I was seeing six months ago. Or three months ago, for that > matter. the biggies are VoIP and VPN, but there is a good share of > infrastructure upgrade. Without the idiots from defunct places like M1 > mucking up the dialogue, customers are getting better advice IMHO, and are > seeing the value of investing now. > > I suspect the real question here is whether or not there is value to being a > CCIE as opposed to some other certification, or expertise in networking in > general. We could debate this point until doomsday and never come up with a > definitive conclusion. IMHO the skills acquired during the CCIE Lab prep > process are valuable. The cert itself may or may not be of value to a > particular employer. > > My own opinion - always invest in yourself. Invest in the skills that will > keep you challenged and keep you employed. > > Chuck > > > ""John Neiberger"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > I'm curious about the feelings others have toward this sort of class, > > especially considering the current job market. A couple of years ago if > > you had CCIE on your resume you were almost sure to get an outrageous > > salary with bonues and other killer benefits. This more than offset the > > cost of taking these sorts of classes. > > > > In the current market, I've heard that if you have a job position that > > requires a CCIE you'll get ten applications! With the HUGE numbers of > > unemployed engineers--of course, depending on where you live--it is no > > longer a 'sure thing' that you'll even be able to find a job, let alone > > get those huge salaries that made everyone salivate. > > > > So, if you had to pay for something like this out of your own pocket, > > do you think it's worth it? Do you think a one-week class that costs > > over $4,000 will pay off more in the long run than spending a fraction > > of that on a few more routers and some books and then putting in an > > extra month or two of practice and study? > > > > Here in Denver the market REALLY sucks right now. Even if I pass the > > lab the chances of me moving to a different company--and therefore > > getting a better salary--are slim to none and Slim might have just left > > town. > > > > I guess what I'm getting at is this: do you think these types of > > companies are pricing themselves right out of the market based on demand > > figures from a couple of years ago? Or, do they seem to be operating on > > the premise that as long as there are people willing to pay exorbitant > > prices, they'll charge sky-high prices. > > > > What are your thoughts? > > > > John > > > > > > > > >>> "Rob Webber" 2/26/02 10:21:23 AM >>> > > Now called "RS-NMC-1 (Routing and Switching Net Master Class)" > > > > Rob. > > > > ""Will K."" wrote in message > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > Does anyone know where information about this class can be found? > > Thanks. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=36526&t=36501 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Was Re: Where is Bruce Caslow ECP1 Class? [7:36501]
Take a lesson from the financial markets. Call this an investment in the future. The best time to buy stocks is when they are low. ( duhh ) The best time to educate and improve yourself is when the market is slow. Now is the time to invest in yourself - training, experience, whatever you can get. the market is starting to come back. it's hard to tell, but this is because jobs are a trailing indicator. Companies will delay new hiring until they are certain the market is recovering. The economy is indeed recovering as we speak, according to the leading indicators. This will not be reflected in the current job market. We may not see the job market improve for several more months. But I can tell you, I'm seeing a lot more in terms of customer activity than I was seeing six months ago. Or three months ago, for that matter. the biggies are VoIP and VPN, but there is a good share of infrastructure upgrade. Without the idiots from defunct places like M1 mucking up the dialogue, customers are getting better advice IMHO, and are seeing the value of investing now. I suspect the real question here is whether or not there is value to being a CCIE as opposed to some other certification, or expertise in networking in general. We could debate this point until doomsday and never come up with a definitive conclusion. IMHO the skills acquired during the CCIE Lab prep process are valuable. The cert itself may or may not be of value to a particular employer. My own opinion - always invest in yourself. Invest in the skills that will keep you challenged and keep you employed. Chuck ""John Neiberger"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I'm curious about the feelings others have toward this sort of class, > especially considering the current job market. A couple of years ago if > you had CCIE on your resume you were almost sure to get an outrageous > salary with bonues and other killer benefits. This more than offset the > cost of taking these sorts of classes. > > In the current market, I've heard that if you have a job position that > requires a CCIE you'll get ten applications! With the HUGE numbers of > unemployed engineers--of course, depending on where you live--it is no > longer a 'sure thing' that you'll even be able to find a job, let alone > get those huge salaries that made everyone salivate. > > So, if you had to pay for something like this out of your own pocket, > do you think it's worth it? Do you think a one-week class that costs > over $4,000 will pay off more in the long run than spending a fraction > of that on a few more routers and some books and then putting in an > extra month or two of practice and study? > > Here in Denver the market REALLY sucks right now. Even if I pass the > lab the chances of me moving to a different company--and therefore > getting a better salary--are slim to none and Slim might have just left > town. > > I guess what I'm getting at is this: do you think these types of > companies are pricing themselves right out of the market based on demand > figures from a couple of years ago? Or, do they seem to be operating on > the premise that as long as there are people willing to pay exorbitant > prices, they'll charge sky-high prices. > > What are your thoughts? > > John > > > > >>> "Rob Webber" 2/26/02 10:21:23 AM >>> > Now called "RS-NMC-1 (Routing and Switching Net Master Class)" > > Rob. > > ""Will K."" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Does anyone know where information about this class can be found? > Thanks. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=36522&t=36501 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
